From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 12:22 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: April 30, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Friday, April 30, 1999. 1. Re: wing repair 2. Re: VW engine upgrade report 3. Re: wing repair 4. 4-min. epoxy 5. Re: Engine choice dilemma 6. Re: Apologies 7. Signing back on. 8. Re: Engine choice dilemma 9. Re: Engine choice dilemma 10. Re: Engine choice dilemma 11. Re: Engine choice dilemma 12. Re: Signing back on. 13. Re: Engine choice dilemma 14. Re: wing repair 15. Signing back on. 16. Re: VW engine upgrade report 17. Re: Copper foil for antennas 18. KRNetiquette, the ongoing saga... 19. wing repair responses 20. Re: GPS 21. last weeks progress 22. Re: Salutations 23. laminating sparcaps 24. Re: Engine choice dilemma 25. suspension from "krnet" 26. Re: laminating sparcaps 27. Re: suspension from "krnet" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wing repair From: "Martin Mulvey" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 00:37:20 -0700 X-Message-Number: 1 Hi Dave and all, What kind of damage and how severe? The repair scheme would be dependent on how much skin was damaged, how it was damaged (gear structure, tire, etc.) and how close it is to the spar structure. (Delaminations and tearing). If you can give a rough idea of the above, I'm sure we could give you some accurate advice. It most likely can be fixed. BRGDS, Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: David McKelvey To: KR-net users group Sent: 29 April, 1999 18:00 Subject: [kr-net] wing repair > Has anyone had the pleasure of repairing an airplane > that's had the gear pushed thru the wings? How involved > a repair is it? Are there any structural probs associated > with this phenom? > > thanks in advance, > > dave > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kr2smm@email.msn.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: VW engine upgrade report From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:51:26 PDT X-Message-Number: 2 the other thing that came to my mind is that a valve was starting to "float" due to a weak valve spring. my 350 cu Chevy does it around 6500 rpm Rich Parker >From: Mike Mims >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] VW engine upgrade report >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:56:22 -0700 > >I had mentioned earlier that a guy at our hanger was upgrading the 1835 >VW in his Dragonfly to a 2300cc (2286)?? Anyway this past weekend he got >her fired up and it sounded pretty beefy! Max static RPM with the 1835 >was about 2850 or so with a 52x48 Props Inc prop. Max static RPM with >the 2300cc is somewhere over 3300rpm! The reason I say somewhere is its >not quite running right yet and I feel there is more RPM in there >somewhere. > >We had one unexplained phenomena occur. We could run the RPM up to 2900 >or so and everything sounded great but anything beyond that RPM and the >engine started letting out a BIG bogging noise. If any of you are >familiar with 2 strokes it sounded like a two cylinder 2 stroke running >wide open on one cylinder. It was incredibly loud and had a very >"harmonic" ring to it. We first thought the Ellison wasn't supplying >enough fuel and this was the source of the noise but after playing with >the carb heat box a little we decided the noise was NOT coming from the >carb. > >After a while Allan gave up for the day and while he was pushing the >airplane back into the hanger he noticed on the backside of one blade of >his prop the finish coat was cracked very badly. The cracks were chord >wise on the prop and only on one blade. We started thinking that maybe >the noise was the prop doing something weird at any RPM above 3000. >Anyway Allan was heading over to borrow a Sterba prop to see if the >noise was in fact coming from the prop. I will keep yall posted on what >we find. > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >Ailerons almost done! >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >Aliso Viejo CA >Give Blood, Play Hockey! >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wing repair From: marmet Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:35:07 -0400 X-Message-Number: 3 HI! Your getting a lot of advice on repairing the structure but dont forget to check those 4 bolts holding the wheel fork on the main beam. (if its a retractable) They might be cracked. Also check the bolts holding the gear retract locking mechanism. They usually bend.. Claude M. Qc Canada David McKelvey wrote: > Has anyone had the pleasure of repairing an airplane > that's had the gear pushed thru the wings? How involved > a repair is it? Are there any structural probs associated > with this phenom? > > thanks in advance, > > dave > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: marmet2@videotron.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 4-min. epoxy From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:43:47 PDT X-Message-Number: 4 >I just called Wicks to place a order for 4 minute Epoxy to >bond the foam to the wood and they no longer carry that item. >Any suggestions on a substitute. How about 5-minute epoxy? If you just gotta use the real stuff, I bought mine from Aircraft Spruce. It's two-part, made by the same people who make T-88 structural epoxy, same kind of squeeze bottles, and sets up rock hard. Just watch out and don't mix up too much at a time- I threw away a couple of half-used batches in the middle of gluing up some foam to wood because it kicked off (exotherm) in my 60 degree garage. And it will not let you work it past about 5 minutes, so be fast. Doesn't sand too great either; it's way harder than the foam, so just use it sparingly to tack the foam to the wood, and fill the rest with micro. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Engine choice dilemma From: Jeff York Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:52:45 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 I am stuck. I have decided that I will build a Kr instead of the Dragonfly. Now my only decision is which engine? Vw, Subaru or Corvair. My business partners own a Vw dealership but even they don't have any air cooled units around. I have concerns about the Soob because of all the plumbing. The Corvair sounds neat but were can I get one. Is it to heavy, will it decrease my useful load? Will the Soob lower my useful load? These might be loaded questions but all you Kr guy's would you help out this new kid? Can you point me to any books on the subject. I have experience with the 0-200 I had in a Varieze but those things are in the stupid price range for a very old junk motor. Jeff York n197jc@worldnet.att.net -----Original Message----- From: Tom Cummings [SMTP:tomlc@communique.net] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 4:54 PM To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: Western Aircraft Supply Sure Larry, I will get a message to him for him. In fact, I spoke to him yesterday about it when I was checking on my engine parts. I gave him your name, and he said he appreciated it and would check into the matter because he was indeed concerned. Tom ---------- > From: EveninBrz@aol.com > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: Western Aircraft Supply > Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 1:56 PM > > In a message dated 4/27/1999 8:50:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > tomlc@communique.net writes: > > << Hello Larry, > I have noticed two messages now concerning Mr. Wynne of the Corvair > Authority not sending you your conversion plans for the Corvair. He spells > his name Wynne, not Winn. > My dealings and results with Mr. Wynne were just the opposite as yours. > When he recieved my order for his plans, he called me long distance and > discussed at length the use of the Corvair engine. A long conversation. > Helpful info. > He mailed my plans right away. I had paid by check but had made it out > to the incorrect name. I put Corvair Authority on it instead of William > Wynne. But he sent me the plans anyway requesting a new check. So I sent > him another check - yes I got the old one back! And everything was fine. > Then I went Corvair hunting! > I have talked to him several times since then and I tried to attend > SunNFun where he gave seminars on the Corvair. (Invited by Contact Magazine > by the way). But I could not attend. So I have made other arrangements to > visit his facility instead. He has gone to considerable effort to find me a > Corvair engine there and prepare some parts that I can't have machined here > where I live. Corvair engines were not available in my area.(after a 6 > month search). > So I was surprised to hear of Mr. Wynne not filling your order - very > surprised. It is like hearing about a completely different person than the > one I dealt with. > If I know Mr. Wynne, I'd bet he has tried to contact you already and > contact was missed. Perhaps he is not getting your messages. Maybe he > didnot recieve your order. > He does have to travel a lot - like many of us do. And he was very busy > during the month of March and April getting ready for Sun N Fun. > His Corvair plans are real good. I am glad I have them. > Tom Cummings > -- >> > I do not know what the problem is. I would very much like to know what it > is. If I had not wanted the plans then I would not have ordered them in the > first place. As for payment, a money order was sent with the order. Out of > the 5 calls placed to him, 4 times an answering machine was gotten, the fifth > time my lady friend called him and was told that they would be sent within a > week. That was about the 20th of March, this is now the 29th of April. That > is more than 1 week the way that I count time. > As for his plans being very good I'm sure that they are, if you can get > them. I have heard from more than one source that they are good plans. I have > had no calls from him at all. He may not have my number, as you seem to have > a good relationship with him, my number is (818)704-6168. If it would get the > plans too me a collect call would be very acceptable. I work 9 hours a day, 6 > days a week, but my girl friend is home all day long every day. > Hi to you also, don't mean to be rude, but I'm a bit upset by the whole > thing. > > Larry Shull > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomlc@communique.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: n197jc@worldnet.att.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Apologies From: "J.C. MARAIS" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:05:00 +0200 X-Message-Number: 6 Hi Kimball, Maybe I missed a message or two. Is it true that Dean waved us goodbye? That REALLY is a shame. Why can't this group of people, with a common interest in a particular hobby, not work and discuss issues without getting mad? Hey guys, let's use this group what it is intended for. JC Kimball Anderson wrote: > > Hi, everybody. > > Let me apologize for my little tirade on KRNet last night. I should learn > not to shoot off messages when I'm annoyed. I was getting a little > frustrated with the body count in the last week or so. First one of our > article contributors signed off the list over the "elitist" issue, followed > closely by another KRNet member who has contributed a great deal to the KR > effort in the past, and now Dean Collette. And I haven't heard from one of > our rather vociferous editors for several days, which gives me cause to > think he may be miffed, as well. These are all good guys with good ideas, > and I hate to see them go. > > As far as the emails regarding FAQ articles, I understand that everybody has > a lot to do, and I don't mind when people decline to write articles. It > take a good deal of effort to write one of these things, and a lot of folks > simply don't have the time. It _is_ nice to get a response saying "sorry, > but I just can't do it right now," though, if that's the case. When I don't > hear anything, I'm not sure whether the email never got through (a rare > event these days, but it does happen) or whether I'm simply being ignored. > So please let me know. > > If I've offended anyone, please accept my apologies. And I guess I'll leave > it at that. Thanks for listening. > > Kimball Anderson > isleno@hargray.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jcmarais@lantic.co.za > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Signing back on. From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:23:52 EDT X-Message-Number: 7 I decided that what was started several years ago on AOL was too important to stay gone long. In the week I have been off I have completed my new aft center spar. This weekend I will complete the aft spar section on the Viking KR FAQ builders manual. By next week I will have reinstalled the spar .755" above the plans mark to obtain the 2 degrees of incidence instead of overboard 3 1/2 degrees in the plans. This has been a ridiculously easy conversion. I can't help but think that you will gain speed by doing this from the start. As I stated about two months ago, I have completely removed the tail section of my airplane and will be constructing a new horizontal stab and elevator. For those of you who have not started on the tail, this is going to be the way to go but wait until I've flown it before you jump in. I have received the parts for the elevator hinges per Dr. Dean's web page and am impressed with the simplicity and effectiveness of this design. My spruce gets shipped Monday from Western Aircraft (along with another order for Dr. Dean I was told (he couldn't stay away from the place), he, he, he:-). I'm glad he's not very "typical". I will update my web page to include a tail section when I get a little further along (two weeks). I ain't done yet!!! I just got my new brakes in from Great Plains.................kiss Clevelands good-bye, Steve's got the ticket here. Save bucks and weight, what more could you ask for. Been playing with carbon fiber this last week in preparation for my new elevator. I know a couple of people were having trouble wetting it out, I didn't have any problem at all. Could we hear from some other more experienced people as to any peculiarities of the stuff. Like I said, my experience was pretty uneventful. Man, he's back and as long-winded as every. Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Engine choice dilemma From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:28:34 EDT X-Message-Number: 8 In a message dated 4/30/99 1:32:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, n197jc@worldnet.att.net writes: << These might be loaded questions but all you Kr guy's would you help out this new kid? Can you point me to any books on the subject. >> Well I guess I'm kind of a Vwub man myself. If you want to go that route, my recommendation is get hold of Steve Bennett at Great Plains 1-800-922-6507, and order a rebuild book. You can also go to my page and check out my rebuild process to see just how easy it is. Better watch out here, you are going to get flooded with opinions, just don't ask what the torque is on a wooden prop:-) (inside joke). Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Engine choice dilemma From: "Mark Langford" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:17:52 -0500 X-Message-Number: 9 > I have concerns about the Soob because of all the plumbing. The Corvair >sounds neat but were can I get one. Is it to heavy, will it decrease my >useful load? Will the Soob lower my useful load? Corvairs are everywhere. Go ask your neighbor. He'll have one in the back of his garage, and he'll GIVE it to you! They are lighter than Soobs, with 100 HP STOCK. The conversion isn't really a conversion, it's an installation! Read everything on the site at the top of the list, and you'll be converted, I promise... http://www.omnispace.com/Corvair/ http://www.corvairunderground.com/lon.htm http://users.aol.com/bpabpa7315/tm.html http://www.corvair.org/CSAClad.htm http://www.corvair.org/ http://members.aol.com/~vairparts/index.html Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Engine choice dilemma From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:49:49 PDT X-Message-Number: 10 Start building your fuselage now and you'll probably change your mind 2 or three times before you even need to think about a motor. Plus as soon as you decide on one you'll get a tempting offer that will try to sway you back to your second choice. Rich Parker >From: Jeff York >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: Engine choice dilemma >Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:52:45 -0500> >I am stuck. I have decided that I will build a Kr instead of the Dragonfly. > >Now my only decision is which engine? Vw, Subaru or Corvair. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Engine choice dilemma From: "Richard Parker" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:52:05 PDT X-Message-Number: 11 I didnt want to hear that Mark. I'm picking up my converted soob tomorrow! ;-) Rich Parker >From: "Mark Langford" >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: Engine choice dilemma >Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:17:52 -0500 > > > I have concerns about the Soob because of all the plumbing. The Corvair > >sounds neat but were can I get one. Is it to heavy, will it decrease my > >useful load? Will the Soob lower my useful load? > >Corvairs are everywhere. Go ask your neighbor. He'll have one in the back >of his garage, and he'll GIVE it to you! They are lighter than Soobs, with >100 HP STOCK. The conversion isn't really a conversion, it's an >installation! Read everything on the site at the top of the list, and >you'll be converted, I promise... > >http://www.omnispace.com/Corvair/ >http://www.corvairunderground.com/lon.htm >http://users.aol.com/bpabpa7315/tm.html >http://www.corvair.org/CSAClad.htm >http://www.corvair.org/ >http://members.aol.com/~vairparts/index.html > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Signing back on. From: David Moore Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:13:59 +0000 X-Message-Number: 12 Hey Windy, What type of epoxy are you using to get the good wetting out on the carbon fibre? Dave Moore >Been playing with carbon fiber this last week in preparation for my new >elevator. I know a couple of people were having trouble wetting it out, I >didn't have any problem at all. Could we hear from some other more >experienced people as to any peculiarities of the stuff. Like I said, my >experience was pretty uneventful. > >Man, he's back and as long-winded as every. > >Dana Overall >1999 KR Gathering host >Richmond, KY >mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/7085/ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: dgmoore1@gte.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > David G. Moore mailto:dgmoore1@gte.net Henderson, Nevada ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Engine choice dilemma From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:25:30 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 Richard Parker wrote: > > Start building your fuselage now and you'll probably change your mind 2 or three times before you even need to think about a motor.>>>>> This is the best advice I have seen so far. Build your airplane and when it comes time that you really need the engine then start worrying about it. I noticed that you mentioned a used O-200 is in the "stupid price range". Depending on the engine you select you should plan on spending about $4k to $5k minimum. I know this sounds like a lot but no matter what engine you decided on its gonna cost you somewhere in this neighborhood, if not more. If your under the impression that it will be less you are in for a surprise. A friend of mine just spent $2k on a VW upgrade so if you think you can build a entire motor for less, it just aint gona happen. Based on the price range I mentioned above you have a lot of options. While I was building my SP I passed up two O-200s, and two Revmasters (new in crate) for less $4k ea. Both O-200s had at least 500 hours left on them if not more. Be patient, let your motor come to you. If you build it they will come! :o) Finally the O-290 came my way with less than 200 hours on it for less than $2k. It needed a carb and two mags but it was still a GREAT deal. Flying isn't cheep and if that's why some of you selected the KR you might want to consider RC models. :o) Don't get me wrong, the KR provides the most bang for the buck but that doesn't mean the bucks are few. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wing repair From: "caryh" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:33:01 -0400 X-Message-Number: 14 Reply to caryh@home.com Web http://members.home.net/caryh KR2 http://members.home.net/caryh/kr-2.htm Ottawa Ontario Canada -----Original Message----- From: marmet >HI! >Your getting a lot of advice on repairing the structure but dont forget to >check those 4 bolts holding the wheel fork on the main beam. (if its a >retractable) They might be cracked. Also check the bolts holding the gear >retract locking mechanism. They usually bend.. >Claude M. Qc Canada > >David McKelvey wrote: > >> Has anyone had the pleasure of repairing an airplane >> that's had the gear pushed thru the wings? How involved >> a repair is it? Are there any structural probs associated >> with this phenom? >> Seems I missed a lot this week! I am re-building a KR2 and I fully agree that you should have a look at the gear castings. I'll get my digital camera out this weekend and show you why it is pure suicide to not look at them even if you are not rebuilding: especially if your beast has suffered the indignity of a hard landing. There is a lot to consider here but fixing the wing itself is not especially hard. Just remember that the gear is bolted onto the main spar. Inspect thoroughly! - Cary - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Signing back on. From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:32:35 -0700 X-Message-Number: 15 Is there a net mom out there who can sign this user back on the list? Kr2dream@aol.com He says his AOL account was deleted and is now working again. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: VW engine upgrade report From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:34:35 -0700 X-Message-Number: 16 BSHADR@aol.com wrote: > > Mike: > > DON'T let him fly it with this prop. Can you say FLUTTER? > > My best guess, > That was the VERY first thing I thought of after seeing the prop for myself! Like I said I will let everyone know if the Sterba prop does the same thing. Isn't this fun?!? -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Copper foil for antennas From: "caryh" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:39:51 -0400 X-Message-Number: 17 Reply to caryh@home.com Web http://members.home.net/caryh KR2 http://members.home.net/caryh/kr-2.htm Ottawa Ontario Canada -----Original Message----- From: NFCKR3@aol.com >I don't know if it will work or not, but stain glass builders use a >self-adhesive backed copper tape on stained glass. It comes in several widths >and a roll will be much more than you will need. >Skip Carden >250KB If the temperature outside says fairly stable without too many swings the copper tape will work, but not forever. If the area around the tape gets warms then swells, the tape, which has a different dynamic with respect to heat, will probably split even if it is surrounded by foam. A better approach is to use a piece of bronze welding rod, or even piano wire. The bronze works just fine up here where the temperature spread is very wide. - Cary - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KRNetiquette, the ongoing saga... From: "Mark Langford" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:09:26 -0500 X-Message-Number: 18 KRNetHeads, It's become apparent that we need a few reminders of how most civilized folks would like to see lists work. Kim has agreed to put this ranting list on the new KRNet FAQ at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking, and I think it would be nice if each new subscriber was magically emailed a copy of something similar. Here's a brief list of my personal pet peeves: 1) If you don't have anything subtantial to say, please don't post anything. This is a KR list, and as such, really needs to stay focused on KRs, or at least airplanes. With over 450 people on the list, if we all decided to say something every day we'd have a real problem. Ask yourself "do 450 people really need to see this, or are 450 people going to be annoyed at me?" Personally, my time is pretty precious to me, and I hate to waste it reading inane email. And is it something that you could find somewhere else? Search engines are wonderful things, and you never know, you might uncover something newsworthy for the rest of us! 2) Carefully consider whether or not you need to reply to a post. Saying "me too", or "I don't know" doesn't contribute to the thread, it just makes the list more bothersome. If you don't know what your talking about, maybe you should be listening, rather than talking. There are FEW people who know everything about everything. Try to stick to things you KNOW about, and let others answer the rest. Try to write "keeper" posts if you're the expert on something. Cover the whole issue, answer all possible questions, address both sides of an issue, and make it a post that others will want to save or print out. Those are the gems that we all search for on KRNet. 3) Keep personal stuff offline. Finding that some other KRNetter is from your neck of the woods isn't a good enough reason to bother us all with your efforts to strike up an acquantance. The list's return address is KRNet, but the original sender's address will usually be obtainable somewhere under "Properties" or something similar. Email him direct, rather than to the list. Some lists arrange addresses so that "reply" goes back to the original sender rather than to the list to cut down on traffic. 4) Put your email address in your signature to make emailing others "offnet" easier. If we all had our addresses at the bottom of our posts, it would be far easier to "email direct". If it's blue just click on it, if it's not, cut it and paste it into the "To" box. A signature line which contains your real name is also a plus. 5) When replying to a post, delete everything but a few key sentences from the previous post. It's really ridiculous to have to search thru 3 or 4 pages of stuff to find down at the bottom where some clown wrote "me too". Conversely, at least put SOMETHING in the post to remind us what you're replying to. A post like "yeah, that's how I did mine and it works great" doesn't mean a thing if you don't know what the guy's talking about. 6) Don't send enclosed files directly to the list. Either post it to a web site or get someone else to post it so others can see if they want, but don't have to if they don't. And given the proliferation of viruses lately, I never open any file that I get from KRNet or anybody else. Only when it comes from a family member or tight friend do I chance trashing my PC to open what usually turns out to be somebody's idea of a joke. 7) If you have something you want to share, specify that you want replies to go offline. It's nice to say "hey, I've got the holy grail on thingamajigs, anybody want it?", but when 15 people reply online that they want it, it gets kinda painful wading thru all of those posts for nothing. A gentle reminder to "reply offline" and furnishing your email address will be a big help. 8) Minimize advertising to this list. It's OK to let folks know there's a new service or a new business, but point them to web site. We don't need a bunch of advertising here. Personal testimonials as to a product's usefullness are welcome anytime, as long as it's not YOUR product. 9) It's OK to interject some personality into emails, just make a contribution while you're at it. I like to let other KRNetters know who I am and what my interests are, but I try to tack that sort of stuff to the bottom of a post in which I've made some sort of contribution to the cause... 10) Asking questions is fine, but please check the archives at http://www.krnet.org before you post. Virtually everything that's been asked in the last few months has been brought up and "beat to death" several times before, and it's all in the archives. You can read a chapter of the archives every night, and you too can become a KR guru in a week! I'm serious. You don't really want to look stupid to 450 people do you? It sure would be nice if one of our many computer guru whiz kid guys could organize the archives into a searchable file of some sort to make this an even easier prospect. 11) Try not to take things personally. We're all here to help each other. There are usually several ways to take comments. Always try to pick the "nicest" interpretation, rather than trying to read animousity into a post. It's a lot easier to just ignore a snide comment and let it slide. Try to avoid "having the last word". On the other hand, don't post little one liner "jabs" to get somebody's goat. They waste everybody's time, and lead to bloody net wars in which valuable people unsubscribe and cease to help you with your KR problems. The guy you just ran off could've saved your life someday. There's been talk of "Net Moms" moderating this list and ejecting the obnoxious few who like to stir up trouble. I'm all for it... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: wing repair responses From: David McKelvey Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:08:18 -0500 X-Message-Number: 19 Thanks for the great advice on wing repair. I have'nt seen the plane yet but he has already installed a Diehl conv. gear. BTW Dan Diehl said the legs can't be converted to tri gear, but offered to swap if they were in good shape, thought that was kind of him. I plan to look at the spar VERY closely, thanks again, dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: GPS From: Bobby Muse Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:51:29 -0500 X-Message-Number: 20 Does anyone know how I can upgrade my GPS Database? I have a Garmin 95XL with a moving map and I need to upgrade the database. I called a local repair location and they wanted $240, too much. I thought you could upgrade it yourself with the correct software and a PC. Does anyone have the answer to my problem? Have you ever upgraded your GPS? Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: last weeks progress From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:28:07 -0700 X-Message-Number: 21 Last week in preparation to mount the firewall I hooked up my brakes, filled them with fluid and adjusted the linkage. The brakes work great with about 1/2 travel before they get firm. Tomorrow I plant clean up the area forward of the main spar (inside the fuselage) and hook up all the fuel lines from the aux tanks. Then time permitting I will mount the firewall. Weather permitting I will apply the last layer of glass to the ailerons. Aint this fun? :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Salutations From: "Dene Collett" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:39:37 +0200 X-Message-Number: 22 Dr Dean wrote: -----Original Message----- From: Dean Collette To: KR-net users group Date: 28 April 1999 05:42 Subject: [kr-net] Salutations >Netters, > >I think I have had my fill of KRNet. > Hi there fellow netters I have been having problems with my PC for the last few days so I was very surprised and saddened to find this message in my mail. I havn`t been part of this group for very long, but long enough to know that the loss of DR. Dean is truly a great loss to all of us on krnet, and all because the conversation string strayed from "talking KR" to discussing each others personalities. Surely all posts to the group should bear some refrence to building and improving on what is already an excellent design. Come on guys, we are all members here for the same reason....."KR" I think a suspension from "krnet" for a period 0f time(depending on the severity of the offence) should be introduced, how do you all feel about the idea? We do have a perfect jury out here to vote on these issues. That is my five cents worth, let`s talk"kr" and leave the personal stuff for private email. Dene Collett South Africa 50% done 80% to go. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: laminating sparcaps From: "Dene Collett" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:49:34 +0200 X-Message-Number: 23 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_016D_01BE9292.8D4A7460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi netters One question for you fundis out there: Because I was not able to get wood of the correct dimensions for my = wingsprs, I will have to laminate them from two planks. the wood is long = enough for the spars but is too narrow for the width of the sparcaps. = would it be better to have the glue joint running from top to bottom or = from front to back(one next to the other or one on top of the other). My = opinion is that it would be best if the glue joint ran from top to = bottom because then every wing attach fitting bolt would pass through = both laminates thereby holding the laminates together.=20 Any coments or suggestions would be welcome. Thanks Dene Collett South Africa 50% done and 80% to go ------=_NextPart_000_016D_01BE9292.8D4A7460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi netters
One question for you fundis out there:
Because I was not able to get wood of the correct = dimensions=20 for my wingsprs, I will have to laminate them from two planks. the wood = is long=20 enough for the spars but is too narrow for the width of the sparcaps. = would it=20 be better to have the glue joint running from top to bottom or from = front to=20 back(one next to the other or one on top of the other). My opinion is = that it=20 would be best if the glue joint ran from top to bottom because then = every wing=20 attach fitting bolt would pass through both laminates thereby holding = the=20 laminates together.
Any coments or suggestions would be = welcome.
Thanks
Dene Collett
South Africa
50% done and 80% to go
------=_NextPart_000_016D_01BE9292.8D4A7460-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Engine choice dilemma From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:40:16 -0700 X-Message-Number: 24 On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:25:30 -0700 Mike Mims writes: >Richard Parker wrote: >> >> Start building your fuselage now and you'll probably change your >mind 2 or three times before you even need to think about a >motor.>>>>> > >This is the best advice I have seen so far. Build your airplane and when >it comes time that you really need the engine then start worrying about >it. > >I noticed that you mentioned a used O-200 is in the "stupid price >range". Depending on the engine you select you should plan on spending >about $4k to $5k minimum. I know this sounds like a lot but no matter >what engine you decided on its gonna cost you somewhere in this >neighborhood, if not more. If your under the impression that it will be >less you are in for a surprise. A friend of mine just spent $2k on a VW >upgrade so if you think you can build a entire motor for less, it just >aint gona happen. - >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims I wasn't going to mention anything since you had apparently already decided against a Continental, but the point above is absolutely right. I was vacillating between VW, Soob or A-65 Continental turned up to 75hp, when about 6 months before I needed it a friend opted to install a larger eingine while rebuilding his plane. I picked up a 1500 hour C-85 out of a plane that I had been routinely flying for $2500, including all accessories ready to bolt on and fly. I doubt that you can build an airworthy engine of any type for that. A typical used O-200 is gonna cost you 6 - 7K. If you watch and wait while you build your airframe, the right engine will come along. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: suspension from "krnet" From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:07:54 -0700 X-Message-Number: 25 Dene Collett wrote: > > I think a suspension from "krnet" for a period 0f time(depending on the severity of the offence) should be introduced, how do you all feel about the idea? >>>> Ok lets see I may be able to help here, let me think back to last weeks hockey game,........ Ok the penalties (suspensions) could be something like... 2 week minor 4 week major 2 month game misconduct (2 month suspension but could be shortened upon further review) Game Misconduct Match Penalty (your out of here perminatly) As fun as this sounds I think we can do without it. After all we are airplane builders and not hockey players (well some of us are both) so we should be able to interact with each other without somebody getting hurt or upset. Although if you expect to last here on the KRNet you need to have thick skin much like a hockey player. If someone says something that upsets you just say to yourself "idiot" and delete the email. You will feel better I promise! :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: laminating sparcaps From: "Martin Mulvey" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:38:12 -0700 X-Message-Number: 26 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01BE9362.833F62C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dene, The joining of the wood should be from "top to bottom" along the length = of the spar as you said. This is the strongest. BRGDS, Marty kr2smm@email.msn.com=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dene Collett=20 To: KR-net users group=20 Sent: 29 April, 1999 13:49 Subject: [kr-net] laminating sparcaps Hi netters One question for you fundis out there: Because I was not able to get wood of the correct dimensions for my = wingsprs, I will have to laminate them from two planks. the wood is long = enough for the spars but is too narrow for the width of the sparcaps. = would it be better to have the glue joint running from top to bottom or = from front to back(one next to the other or one on top of the other). My = opinion is that it would be best if the glue joint ran from top to = bottom because then every wing attach fitting bolt would pass through = both laminates thereby holding the laminates together.=20 Any coments or suggestions would be welcome. Thanks Dene Collett South Africa 50% done and 80% to go ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01BE9362.833F62C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dene,
 
The joining of the wood should be from "top to = bottom" along=20 the length of the spar as you said. This is the strongest.
 
BRGDS,   Marty
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dene=20 Collett
Sent: 29 April, 1999 = 13:49
Subject: [kr-net] laminating=20 sparcaps

Hi netters
One question for you fundis out = there:
Because I was not able to get wood of the correct = dimensions=20 for my wingsprs, I will have to laminate them from two planks. the = wood is=20 long enough for the spars but is too narrow for the width of the = sparcaps.=20 would it be better to have the glue joint running from top to bottom = or from=20 front to back(one next to the other or one on top of the other). My = opinion is=20 that it would be best if the glue joint ran from top to bottom because = then=20 every wing attach fitting bolt would pass through both laminates = thereby=20 holding the laminates together.
Any coments or suggestions would be = welcome.
Thanks
Dene Collett
South Africa
50% done and 80% to = go
------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01BE9362.833F62C0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: suspension from "krnet" From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 00:56:33 -0700 X-Message-Number: 27 On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:07:54 -0700 Mike Mims writes: >Dene Collett wrote: >> >> I think a suspension from "krnet" for a period 0f time(depending on >the severity of the offence) should be introduced, how do you all feel >about the idea? >>>> As one of the "Net Moms", playing judge isn't something I'm prepared to do or want to see happen. Most of the time I either drop someone a line off the net, or allow peer pressure to take it's course with some of the more obvious gaffs. We're all big boys and girls on the net and most are able to ignore the one or two occasional posts done in poor judgement. Almost always the person making the offensive post wishes they could find an "unsend" button in the e-mail program and are often recieving enough flak that they stay in their fox hole rather than post an apology. Occasionally some one of charactor will stand up and make a public apology for their blunder. Back when this list was 25 or 50 people it used to be somewhat entertaining to toss barbs at each other. Now it wastes too many folks time and is offensive to to large of a number of people. Enough said and enough time wasted on the subject. Back to airplane building which is why we are supposed to be here. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com