From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 12:26 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: May 05, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Wednesday, May 05, 1999. 1. Re: Somthing for online FAQ??? 2. Re: Pushrods (New Subject Name) 3. Soob 4. Re: REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice 5. pushrod vs cables 6. pushrods 7. Re: REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice 8. Prop blade center of mass? 9. Re: Prop blade center of mass? 10. Thanks & Hot wire Polystyrene tip 11. Re: REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice 12. Re: Prop blade center of mass? 13. Re: Thanks & Hot wire Polystyrene tip 14. Re: REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice 15. Cad Files 16. laminating spars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Somthing for online FAQ??? From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:08:05 EDT X-Message-Number: 1 In a message dated 5/5/1999 12:03:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mikemims@home.com writes: << FAQ Guys,....Check this out and if you like it feel free to use it. >> WOW!!!!! That was awesome!! Larry Shull EveningBrz@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Pushrods (New Subject Name) From: Donald Reid Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:29:24 -0400 X-Message-Number: 2 Adding my two cents: The reasons that I deceided to go with pushrods include Dean's space considerations. The other reason is that pushrods have a more positive interconnection between the two ailerons and cooresponding reduction in likelyhood of flutter. I am not aware of any KR aileron flutter incidents leading to failure, but there have been cases in similar types of planes. The pushrod controls will have a very small amount of "slop" between the two control surfaces, and this should not increase significantly over time. There will be more "slop" on a cable based system and it will change, perhaps significantly, over time. The end result of this design change is that I am attempting to remove one more degree of freedom from the vibration of the ailerons. Dean Collette wrote: > > Where Mike has a good point, let me add a couple of other things for > consideration. > > Pushrod controls, overall, are heavier then the corresponding cable system, > and that includes the pulleys and brackets required for the cables. > > But pushrods will eliminate the need for the large area that the cables do. BIG SNIP > >Richard Parker wrote: > >> > >> Question? anyone using an aeleron pushrod from a forward spar mounted > >> bellcrank instead of cabling to a rear spar mounted bellcrank? I'd like > to see a picture.>>>>>> ANOTHER BIG SNIP > > > > > >There seems to be a pretty big infatuation on the KRNet concerning the > >KR control system and the use of push rods over cables. You may want to > >step back and think about why you would rather have push rods versus > >cables. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Soob From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:01:34 EDT X-Message-Number: 3 If anyone is interested I still have my rebuilt EA-81 Engine for sale at $500.00 + shipping. Don Clarke 915 755-0588 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice From: "Richard Parker" Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 07:42:19 PDT X-Message-Number: 4 Ask him to do a compression test. You should get numbers around 155 psi. Since its not currently runnable you cant get oil pressure numbers but if they did it properly it shouldnt be an issue. Just reemember that by using a PSRU you are going to be running the engine up in the 5500-6000 rpm range. Go sit in your driveway and rev your car up to those numbers and sit there for an hour and see if you feel comfortable with it. If you do then buy it. Rich Parker >From: "Rick Hubka" >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice >Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:51:39 -0600 > >Hi KRNet Heads & SOOBHeads > >I have the opportunity to purchased a EA-81 for my KR-2S from a fellow up >here in Canada. Below is some of the info. Cost = $2K U.S. >It still needs an intake and exhast system and I am concerned about 1.87 >PSRU. I don't know what prop speed it would give me or if it would be >appropriate for a KR. >----------------- >From Seller... >The engine is rebuilt and includes new pistons, camshaft, and lifters. The >crank was magnafluxed and polished. Cylinder heads had valve grinds which >included new seats and guides. The machine work was done at Thompsons >Automotive Machine. I have included a URL for the manufacturer of the PSRU >for you to check out. The one I have is new and was ordered from them. The >gear reduction on this one is 1.87 to 1 and has the lower support bearing. >I have not run the engine as I have not made up an intake system for it. I >was originally going to put it on a Beaver ultralight but $#@$#&! it was to >heavy so it is now in storage in my basement. I also have a small 40 amp >Nippon Denso alternator for it and the stock intake manifold if wanted. >Also the books and video put out by Reductions Ltd. >http://www.mts.net/~davejohn/index.html >-------------------- > >Can any of you suggest: >1) Is 1.87 PSRU OK for a KR-2S (No I don't know what type of prop I would >use) >2) Does this sound like a fair deal? >3) what questions can I ask the seller to make a better decision? >4) what??? > >Thanks.. in advance... > >Rick Hubka >rick@hubka.com >Calgary, Alberta Canada _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: pushrod vs cables From: "Richard Parker" Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 07:43:57 PDT X-Message-Number: 5 I'm using cables behind the rear spar (ie Langford) but want to use pushrods out to the ailerons from a side mounted stick. (need my right hand to play with the radios) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: pushrods From: "Rex Ellington" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:26:43 CST X-Message-Number: 6 Netters: Here is a different take on pushrods and cable. I am using two pushrods for the elevator. One goes from twin stick to a walking beam behind the cockpit. The second from that pivot to the elevator. My run-around loop in the cockpit is different for two reasons. One: since I am going to trigear, the Diehl fitting is in the way of the plans route. Two: In the cockpit area, my fuselage is widened to 40" O.D., and the sides are vertical. This gives me enough room at the floor to run my cables from front spar through rear spar within the cockpit. Routing is from sticks laterally along the front spar to a pulley with a right angle turn, straight back through the rear spar, right angle turn along back of rear spar to bell crank. From the bell crank the runaround goes straight across to the opposite crank. By the way, each bell crank is now a straight walking beam with the same radius to the cables on each side. The pushrod from to the aileron will remain the same. Further, all turnbuckles will be in the cockpit and easily accessible. With proper tensioning, there is no reason for there to be any slop in the system, unless it is in the aileron pushrod. Comments??? For everyone's benefit to net, for mine alone to ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu No tornado damage here. Big one went north of us, another south. Honestly, photos look like Horoshima. Rex Ellington Norman OK Rex T. Ellington ellingto@gslan.offsys.ou.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice From: Warron Gray Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:34:01 -0400 X-Message-Number: 7 --------------D47C55125B4CF88B909AF855 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey are you nuts ? where do you think the power is developed in the soob ? we use 1.69 and 1.62 nothing higher than 1.85 or you don't get to the power range Warron Martin Mulvey wrote: > Hi Rick and all, I would stay with a 2.2 : 1 PSRU for the drive > unit. The 1.87 is not enough to develop the HP. BRGDS, Marty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rick Hubka > To: KR-net users group > Sent: 04 May, 1999 17:51 > Subject: [kr-net] REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice > Hi KRNet Heads & SOOBHeads I have the opportunity to > purchased a EA-81 for my KR-2S from a fellow up here in > Canada. Below is some of the info. Cost = $2K U.S.It still > needs an intake and exhast system and I am concerned about > 1.87 PSRU. I don't know what prop speed it would give me or > if it would be appropriate for a KR.-----------------From > Seller...The engine is rebuilt and includes new pistons, > camshaft, and lifters. The crank was magnafluxed and > polished. Cylinder heads had valve grinds which included new > seats and guides. The machine work was done at Thompsons > Automotive Machine. I have included a URL for the > manufacturer of the PSRU for you to check out. The one I > have is new and was ordered from them. The gear reduction on > this one is 1.87 to 1 and has the lower support bearing. I > have not run the engine as I have not made up an intake > system for it. I was originally going to put it on a Beaver > ultralight but $#@$#&! it was to heavy so it is now in > storage in my basement. I also have a small 40 amp Nippon > Denso alternator for it and the stock intake manifold if > wanted. Also the books and video put out by Reductions > Ltd.http://www.mts.net/~davejohn/index.html-------------------- Can > any of you suggest:1) Is 1.87 PSRU OK for a KR-2S (No I > don't know what type of prop I would use)2) Does this sound > like a fair deal?3) what questions can I ask the seller to > make a better decision?4) what??? Thanks.. in > advance... Rick Hubka > rick@hubka.com > Calgary, Alberta Canada > --------------D47C55125B4CF88B909AF855 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey are you nuts ? where do you think the power is developed in the soob ? we use 1.69 and 1.62 nothing higher than 1.85 or you don't get to the power range Warron

Martin Mulvey wrote:

  Hi Rick and all, I would stay with a 2.2 : 1 PSRU for the drive unit. The 1.87 is not enough to develop the HP. BRGDS,   Marty
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 04 May, 1999 17:51
Subject: [kr-net] REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice
 Hi KRNet Heads & SOOBHeads I have the opportunity to purchased a EA-81 for my KR-2S from a fellow up here in Canada.  Below is some of the info.  Cost = $2K U.S.It still needs an intake and exhast system and I am concerned about 1.87 PSRU.  I don't know what prop speed it would give me or if it would be appropriate for a KR.-----------------From Seller...The engine is rebuilt and includes new pistons, camshaft, and lifters. The crank was magnafluxed and polished. Cylinder heads had valve grinds which included new seats and guides. The machine work was done at Thompsons Automotive Machine. I have included a URL for the manufacturer of the PSRU for you to check out. The one I have is new and was ordered from them. The gear reduction on this one is 1.87 to 1 and has the lower support bearing. I have not run the engine as I have not made up an intake system for it. I was originally going to put it on a Beaver ultralight but $#@$#&! it was to heavy so it is now in storage in my basement. I also have a small 40 amp Nippon Denso alternator for it and the stock intake manifold if wanted. Also the books and video put out by Reductions Ltd.http://www.mts.net/~davejohn/index.html-------------------- Can any of you suggest:1) Is 1.87 PSRU OK for a KR-2S (No I don't know what type of prop I would use)2) Does this sound like a fair deal?3) what questions can I ask the seller to make a better decision?4) what??? Thanks.. in advance... Rick Hubka
rick@hubka.com
Calgary, Alberta    Canada
  --------------D47C55125B4CF88B909AF855-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Prop blade center of mass? From: "Mark Langford" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:18:24 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 Anybody know where the center of mass of your basic prop blade is? What I mean is if you cut the prop in half at the hub with one full blade in each half, and balanced the resulting blade/half hub on a knife edge, how far out from the center of the hub would your knife edge be (percentage wise)? I realize that if you tried hard enough, you could move it around quite a bit, but surely there's a rule of thumb. Seems like it's 1/3 of the way out maybe? A stress buddy at work is going to run a Nastran model of my drive shaft system to determine primary and secondary modes of torsional vibration, and I need to whip up a solid model of a prop, or at least guess where the center of mass is along the prop disk. My guess is that the typical wooden prop weighs 7 pounds. Thanks, Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford -----Original Message----- From: Warron Gray To: KR-net users group Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 4:17 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice >Hey are you nuts ? where do you think the power is developed in the soob >? we use 1.69 and 1.62 nothing higher than 1.85 or you don't get to the >power range Warron > >Martin Mulvey wrote: > >> Hi Rick and all, I would stay with a 2.2 : 1 PSRU for the drive >> unit. The 1.87 is not enough to develop the HP. BRGDS, Marty >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Rick Hubka >> To: KR-net users group >> Sent: 04 May, 1999 17:51 >> Subject: [kr-net] REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice >> Hi KRNet Heads & SOOBHeads I have the opportunity to >> purchased a EA-81 for my KR-2S from a fellow up here in >> Canada. Below is some of the info. Cost = $2K U.S.It still >> needs an intake and exhast system and I am concerned about >> 1.87 PSRU. I don't know what prop speed it would give me or >> if it would be appropriate for a KR.-----------------From >> Seller...The engine is rebuilt and includes new pistons, >> camshaft, and lifters. The crank was magnafluxed and >> polished. Cylinder heads had valve grinds which included new >> seats and guides. The machine work was done at Thompsons >> Automotive Machine. I have included a URL for the >> manufacturer of the PSRU for you to check out. The one I >> have is new and was ordered from them. The gear reduction on >> this one is 1.87 to 1 and has the lower support bearing. I >> have not run the engine as I have not made up an intake >> system for it. I was originally going to put it on a Beaver >> ultralight but $#@$#&! it was to heavy so it is now in >> storage in my basement. I also have a small 40 amp Nippon >> Denso alternator for it and the stock intake manifold if >> wanted. Also the books and video put out by Reductions >> Ltd.http://www.mts.net/~davejohn/index.html-------------------- Can >> any of you suggest:1) Is 1.87 PSRU OK for a KR-2S (No I >> don't know what type of prop I would use)2) Does this sound >> like a fair deal?3) what questions can I ask the seller to >> make a better decision?4) what??? Thanks.. in >> advance... Rick Hubka >> rick@hubka.com >> Calgary, Alberta Canada >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop blade center of mass? From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:08:49 EDT X-Message-Number: 9 In a message dated 5/5/99 6:49:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, langford@hiwaay.net writes: << My guess is that the typical wooden prop weighs 7 pounds. >> Can't help you on the percentage figure but as far as weight goes, my Sterba 54x46 weighs in between 4 and 5 lbs. Now that is using the ol stand on the scale then stand on the scale again with the prop method:-). Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Thanks & Hot wire Polystyrene tip From: "Rick Hubka" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 18:42:41 -0600 X-Message-Number: 10 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BE9727.0E9DE4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys Thanks for all the on/off line response on my REQ: KRNet Heads & = SOOBHeads. After carefull evaluation I have gracefully declined the = EA-81 purchase. I just joined the SOOB list airsoob@lists.kz to become = better informed. I also caught MM's advice a few weeks back... <<<>>>> I was bored at work today and found this link on Hot Wiring Polystyrene = Foam http://www.rcplanet.com/bamac/simple_foam_cutter.htm=20 I found the nichrome wire at a local hobby store. There's also an = article for building a hot wire tool in an old issue of a KR newsletter. I am only going to use urathane for wing stub fuel tank area's. Rick Hubka rick@hubka.com Calgary, Alberta Canada ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BE9727.0E9DE4A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Guys
 
Thanks for all the on/off line response on my REQ: = KRNet Heads=20 & SOOBHeads.  After carefull evaluation I have gracefully = declined the=20 EA-81 purchase.  I just joined the SOOB list airsoob@lists.kz to become better=20 informed.
 
I also caught MM's advice a few weeks = back...
<<<<Start building your fuselage now and = you'll=20 probably change your mind 2 or  three times before you even need to = think=20 about a motor.>>>>>
I was bored at work today and found this link on Hot = Wiring=20 Polystyrene Foam  http://www.= rcplanet.com/bamac/simple_foam_cutter.htm 
I found the nichrome wire at a local hobby = store. =20 There's also an article for building a hot wire tool in an old issue of = a KR=20 newsletter.
 
I am only going to use urathane for wing stub fuel = tank=20 area's.
 
Rick Hubka
rick@hubka.com
Calgary,=20 Alberta    Canada
------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BE9727.0E9DE4A0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice From: Mike Mims Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:04:39 -0700 X-Message-Number: 11 Warron Gray wrote: > > Hey are you nuts ? where do you think the power is developed in the > soob ? we use 1.69 and 1.62 nothing higher than 1.85 or you don't get > to the power range Warron > > Martin Mulvey wrote: > > > Hi Rick and all, I would stay with a 2.2 : 1 PSRU for the drive > > unit. The 1.87 is not enough to develop the HP. BRGDS, Marty Yeah I kinda thought this was a step in the wrong direction (2.2 to 1)! When I was doing my Subaru research I was planning on a 1.5 to 1 ratio if I could find it. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop blade center of mass? From: Mike Mims Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:06:27 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 Mark Langford wrote: > > Anybody know where the center of mass of your basic prop blade is? >> The typical wood prop does weigh about 7 pounds. I know of a freshly broken Sterba prop that I can weigh if you don't get any response to your post. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Thanks & Hot wire Polystyrene tip From: Mike Mims Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:10:08 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 > Rick Hubka wrote: > > I was bored at work today and found this link on Hot Wiring > Polystyrene Foam > http://www.rcplanet.com/bamac/simple_foam_cutter.htm Hot wiring foam is a kick in the pants! You will love it I promise. :o) I wonder if my KR will be the first to fly with hot wired wing cores? -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Ailerons almost done! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ Aliso Viejo CA Give Blood, Play Hockey! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: REQ: KRNet Head & SOOBHeads advice From: Warron Gray Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 21:23:55 -0400 X-Message-Number: 14 Mike , we run 52 TO 54 inch props and turn the engine maxed out up to5200 rpm. the clearance with the 54 inch prop to ground is about 8 inches but more important we are producing the power in that range.redline is about 5600 for us and that is enough. if you could run a longer prop on a kr than the 1.85 or 2.14 would be good . a q2 is using the 54 inch and cruises at 170 + all day he is using warp drive with a 72 inch pitch on the jap truck engine Warron Mike Mims wrote: > Warron Gray wrote: > > > > Hey are you nuts ? where do you think the power is developed in the > et as: WARRONG@BELLSOUTH.NET > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Cad Files From: bmoore@es.com Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:28:07 -0700 X-Message-Number: 15 I have just purchased the plans for a KR-2 and the supplement for the KR-2S. I was wondering if anybody had any Cad drawings of a KR-2S that they would be willing to part with? Robert Moore rmoore@ag3d.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: laminating spars From: "Dene Collett" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:07:30 +0200 X-Message-Number: 16 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE9743.AB06B8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi netters many thanks to the gentleman that answered my call for advice, sorry I = deleted the message by mistake before I could put your email address in = my address book. Project update: have just finished ripping timber for laminating, will probably glue and = clamp on the weekend.Can anyone tell me how long before the new wing = airfoil flies, I need to decide on spar dimensions soon. cheers Dene Collett South Africa 50%done 79.5% to go ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE9743.AB06B8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi netters
 
many thanks to the gentleman that = answered my=20 call for advice, sorry I deleted the message by mistake before I could = put your=20 email address in my address book.
Project update:
have just finished ripping timber = for=20 laminating, will probably glue and clamp on the weekend.Can anyone tell = me how=20 long before the new wing airfoil flies, I need to decide on spar = dimensions=20 soon.
 
cheers
Dene Collett
South Africa
50%done 79.5% to go
 
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