From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 12:13 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: June 01, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Tuesday, June 01, 1999. 1. RE: aluminum seats 2. Re: Trailing edge reinforcement 3. Re: Out of the Closet 4. Re: Out of the Closet 5. Re: Out of the Closet 6. Re: Trailing edge reinforcement 7. More SuperFil 8. Re: Trailing edge reinforcement 9. Trailing edge 10. Re: More SuperFil 11. Re: More SuperFil 12. Re: More SuperFil 13. Re: More SuperFil 14. Re: More SuperFil 15. I need Monty Miller's phone number 16. Bandsaw sources? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: aluminum seats From: "Richard Parker" Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 02:36:42 PDT X-Message-Number: 1 Mike, Any more details - thickness, pics etc. on the AL sling seats? how did you attach them? Rich Parker >From: Mike Mims >Well sports fans there was some progress to report for this weekend. >First thing was to make new sling seats. As some of you know the first >sling seat I got from RR failed because it was sewn together >incorrectly. Well the second one failed so I decided enough of that >non-sense! I made a new sling for the driver side out of aluminum. >Larry Rhea's KR2 has aluminum slings and they seem to work well. Best of >all they are VERY light compared to other methods that came to mind. I >never heard this before but someone who was visiting my hanger yesterday >said that a few years ago here in California that a seat failure was the >cause of a KR accident. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Trailing edge reinforcement From: "Richard Parker" Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 02:38:36 PDT X-Message-Number: 2 I use a mixture of flox and micro. works good, sands relatively easy. Rich Parker richontheroad@hotmail.com http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm Jaffrey, NH >From: Ron Lee >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Trailing edge reinforcement >Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:40:36 -0600 > > >3) Don't forget > >to reinforce the trailing edges of elevator, ailerons, and flaps with >flox > >and maybe an extra tape or two. > >I am going to disagree to get more discussion out of this. Flox is >structural >and probably heavy and hard to sand. Trailing edges should have the proper >amount of glass to glass contact (see plans but I would guess about .75"). > >If you need additional strength maybe more glass. > >Whatever you do should be done with control surface balancing in mind as >well. > >Ron Lee > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Out of the Closet From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:27:53 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3 >Are you sure this is what the powers mean? Maybe eliminating PAID >overtime means they want you to work 13 hours a day for 8 hours' pay. Yep, you're right. That's exactly what they meant. They expect us to keep working for free. Just call me "mercinary", but I only go to work for the money. And the last time I checked, the unemployment rate in Huntsville was about 0%. I have a standing offer to go to work for Boeing on some Space Station hardware, but I hear they're hard to work for too. Sort of the definition of "Dilbert", which we're striving toward here also. I just hope they don't change their minds and pay us after all. After this weekend I'm pretty fired up about the airplane... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Out of the Closet From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:34:28 EDT X-Message-Number: 4 In a message dated 6/1/1999 4:28:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, langford@hiwaay.net writes: << Just call me "mercinary", but I only go to work for the money. >> Mark!!! I thought that you were just using the job to get out of the house, and be with such wonderful people !!!!! I know how you feel, we work a 6 day schedule. At first the money is nice but after a year or so you get so tired all of the time, you get so burned out. The accident rate goes up and you start asking yourself is it worth it? Larry Shull EveninBrz@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Out of the Closet From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:37:17 EDT X-Message-Number: 5 In a message dated 6/1/1999 4:28:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, langford@hiwaay.net writes: << I have a standing offer to go to work for Boeing on some Space Station hardware, but I hear they're hard to work for too >> I've worked for them and my advice is, be afraid, be very afraid. At Vandenburg SLC-6 they were hard to work for. Never satisfied with what you do. Larry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Trailing edge reinforcement From: "Mark Langford" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:36:46 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 Ron Lee wrote: >I am going to disagree to get more discussion out of this. Flox is structural >and probably heavy and hard to sand. Trailing edges should have the proper >amount of glass to glass contact (see plans but I would guess about .75"). You're right. I said flox because that's what I thought the plans said (it's been a looooong time since I read them). Maybe I should read them more often. Or maybe that was one of Monte's newletter articles on aileron construction I was thinking of. I've got two layers of carbon fiber on each side of my ailerons and flaps which join to make four layers of carbon fiber at the trailing edge. I think that's stronger than steel, and far stiffer, so I don't need no schtinkin' flox back there! I do use micro to soften the > between the top and bottom sides though, if you know what I mean. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: More SuperFil From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 06:16:33 PDT X-Message-Number: 7 Hello, Netters Just a few more things about SuperFil, since I've started using it more and getting more familiar with it. Truly strange stuff, but in a good sort of way. *It is almost dry when you take it out of the can, so there isn't the goopy mess of mixing micro and resin (good). It has the consistency of stiff micro paste; no flowing or sagging at all. If you need something that will run down into a crack, this ain't it. *It's a bit wierd to measure by volume, but I worked out a system with graduated cups (OK). Haven't tried mixing by weight, but it doesn't seem to be too picky about exact mixing ratio... it mixes easy and sets up nice. *It doesn't stick to wood tongue depressor mixing sticks or mixing cups while you're working it, but when it dries... look out! (can be bad). *It definitely will stick to clear tape (packing tape) and it definitely will stick to visqueen (clear plastic sheeting) while it's still workable, so forget about the trick of laying it up over either of those two materials and hoping it won't stick. I had wrapped a stick in clear tape hoping to use it to smooth a large flat area, but no joy. Had to do the "squeegee to eyeball smooth" and then sand later. I hafta try duct tape next, followed by sar*n wrap, but it looks like this stuff will stick to almost anything. *It sorta doesn't want to fill where you want it to fill, or stick where you want it to stick. If you press/smear it harder into a crack or hole, it's almost like it sticks even less, and wants to come back out stuck to your applicator. There is an intermediate sort of smoothing pressure needed to get it to flow where you want it to. *It is way cool for making little fillets and rounded areas, or smoothing rough corners. The trick is to keep a cup of water nearby, and dip a finger into the water... use the wetted finger to shape what you want. It's water-based, remember? (Good). *It will stay workable for 30 to 45 minutes, but not much more. I would say it would be just the ticket for doing the trailing-edge finish with a joggle, as shown on Mike Mims' detail with the straight board bondo'd on. It is lighter than micro, dries very hard, and seems to have zero shrink. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Trailing edge reinforcement From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:44:08 EDT X-Message-Number: 8 I used a piece of spruce cut at 1/4 * 1/4. epoxied it on the trailing edge of the wing, elevator and rudder. Then sanded them to a nice finish. Made sure the fiber glass covered them and "Walla" a very strong edge. Don Clarke ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Trailing edge From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:50:32 EDT X-Message-Number: 9 I used thin pieces of left over spruce cut about 1/4 by 1/4, epoxied them to the trailing edge of the wing,elevator and rudder. Then sanded them to size and shape. Made sure they were covered by the glass. This made for a very strong edge. (A whole lot easier too) Done right it will be straight. On the rudder and elevator you can use the already formed balsa edges you can find at the hobby craft shops. The key to the stength is the glass over the finished product. Don Clarke ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: More SuperFil From: "RONALD R.EASON" Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:35:09 -0700 X-Message-Number: 10 At 06:16 AM 6/1/99 PDT, you wrote: >Hello, Netters > >Just a few more things about SuperFil, since I've started using it more and >getting more familiar with it. Truly strange stuff, but in a good sort of >way. > Oscar, I have used Laquar Thinner to thin the superfil out, use it sparingly. I will evaporate before the curing takes place. KKRon > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: More SuperFil From: "Dean Collette" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:16:30 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 Oscar, and other SuperFilheads, In the past I have used dry micro, Aeropoxy Light and SuperFil, and I have to say that the supernal has my vote. It is by far the easiest to work with, but takes a little getting used to. A couple of weeks ago I started the process of filling and sanding my fuselage - no small task, I assure you. I am using the supernal for all of it. > *It's a bit wierd to measure by volume, but I worked out a system with > graduated cups (OK). Haven't tried mixing by weight, but it doesn't seem to > be too picky about exact mixing ratio... I found these little plastic cups that I just fill up and mix 1:1.5 by volume. It's not picky about the mixing ratio - I made the mistake of mixing a batch 1:1, and although it set up rather quickly, and was difficult to sand, I had no other problems. > *It definitely will stick to clear tape (packing tape) and it definitely > will stick to visqueen (clear plastic sheeting) while it's still workable . . . Oh yeah, - I'll second this - the stuff just plain sticks. I spare you the duct tape trial - it sticks to that as well. > If you press/smear it harder into a crack or hole, it's > almost like it sticks even less, and wants to come back out stuck to your > applicator. There is an intermediate sort of smoothing pressure needed to > get it to flow where you want it to. I had the same problems initially. The stuff doesn't work like bondo, it takes a little getting used to. I found that by changing the angle or direction of my application I can get it to go where I want. Experiment a bit, I think you'll find the same thing. Sometimes just by applying the filler backwards makes it fill in those areas where it "skipped" on the first attempt. > *It is way cool for making little fillets and rounded areas, or smoothing > rough corners. The trick is to keep a cup of water nearby, and dip a finger > into the water... use the wetted finger to shape what you want. It's > water-based, remember? (Good). This also works very well for making a very smooth transition from a filled area to a flat surface, requiring very little sanding. > *It will stay workable for 30 to 45 minutes, but not much more. And the time is DEFINATELY related to the temperature. I applied some in the garage the other day with the temps near 90. The workability was about 20 minutes after I had everything mixed up. The best part about it was that 4 hours later I was sanding it. The Aeropoxy Light filler is a little easier to apply, but it takes forever to cure, and when it's dry the stuff is like a rock, This is both good and bad - you want to filler to be strong, but man, you gotta sand it, and we are talkin' major power tools! Forget sanding it by hand (unless you have nothing better to do for the next 3 years.) I'll stick with the SuperFil. That cool blue color - that's what does it for me! Dean Collette Milwaukee, Wisconsin mailto:drdean@execpc.com Web Page at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: More SuperFil From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 18:33:10 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 A lot of good stuff on Superfil, here are some things I have noticed. * Humidity and temp has a LOT to do with its workability. On a typical Chino summer (90 degrees, 15 %) day I have about 20 minutes to get it where I want it. In 3 to 4 hours I can sand it. * In areas where you think you may need more its best to just apply superfil over itself instead of sanding it and then reapplying. It doesn't make the real hard spots like micro (when you re-apply micro over sanded micro) but it does make slightly harder (harder than the surrounding sanded superfil) spots. When re-applying Superfil over un-sanded Superfil it seems to stick much better than epoxy based micro. * The peel-up or scraping effect you get when applying it seems to do more with the applicator angle than it does pressure. By varying the angle of the squeegee you can find that sweet spot and the filler will be very smooth. * For super flat sanding try an air-board with 36 grit paper to start and then work your way to finer grits. * Smooth Prime is as sweet as Superfil when it comes time to prime and fill pin holes and small scratches. Roll it on with a foam roller, about four good coats and then sand it smooth with fine sandpaper on your palm sander and or air-board. Brad has watched me work (sometimes I talk him into sanding a little) with Superfil and Smooth Prime and he thinks his Dragonfly project would have been in the air a year sooner had he used them. Only time will tell if this stuff stays where we put it but I have a feeling Superfil is a winner! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: More SuperFil From: "Dean Collette" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:47:11 -0500 X-Message-Number: 13 My spell checker got the better of me on my last post. All of the "supernal" should read "SuperFil". Sorry about that. Ain't technology grand? Dean Collette Milwaukee, Wisconsin mailto:drdean@execpc.com Web Page at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean Collette To: KR-net users group Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 6:16 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: More SuperFil > Oscar, and other SuperFilheads, > > In the past I have used dry micro, Aeropoxy Light and SuperFil, and I have > to say that the supernal has my vote. It is by far the easiest to work with, > but takes a little getting used to. A couple of weeks ago I started the > process of filling and sanding my fuselage - no small task, I assure you. I > am using the supernal for all of it. > > > *It's a bit wierd to measure by volume, but I worked out a system with > > graduated cups (OK). Haven't tried mixing by weight, but it doesn't seem > to > > be too picky about exact mixing ratio... > > I found these little plastic cups that I just fill up and mix 1:1.5 by > volume. It's not picky about the mixing ratio - I made the mistake of mixing > a batch 1:1, and although it set up rather quickly, and was difficult to > sand, I had no other problems. > > > *It definitely will stick to clear tape (packing tape) and it definitely > > will stick to visqueen (clear plastic sheeting) while it's still workable > . . . > > Oh yeah, - I'll second this - the stuff just plain sticks. I spare you the > duct tape trial - it sticks to that as well. > > > If you press/smear it harder into a crack or hole, it's > > almost like it sticks even less, and wants to come back out stuck to your > > applicator. There is an intermediate sort of smoothing pressure needed to > > get it to flow where you want it to. > > I had the same problems initially. The stuff doesn't work like bondo, it > takes a little getting used to. I found that by changing the angle or > direction of my application I can get it to go where I want. Experiment a > bit, I think you'll find the same thing. Sometimes just by applying the > filler backwards makes it fill in those areas where it "skipped" on the > first attempt. > > > *It is way cool for making little fillets and rounded areas, or smoothing > > rough corners. The trick is to keep a cup of water nearby, and dip a > finger > > into the water... use the wetted finger to shape what you want. It's > > water-based, remember? (Good). > > This also works very well for making a very smooth transition from a filled > area to a flat surface, requiring very little sanding. > > > *It will stay workable for 30 to 45 minutes, but not much more. > > And the time is DEFINATELY related to the temperature. I applied some in the > garage the other day with the temps near 90. The workability was about 20 > minutes after I had everything mixed up. The best part about it was that 4 > hours later I was sanding it. > > The Aeropoxy Light filler is a little easier to apply, but it takes forever > to cure, and when it's dry the stuff is like a rock, This is both good and > bad - you want to filler to be strong, but man, you gotta sand it, and we > are talkin' major power tools! Forget sanding it by hand (unless you have > nothing better to do for the next 3 years.) > > I'll stick with the SuperFil. That cool blue color - that's what does it for > me! > > Dean Collette Milwaukee, Wisconsin > mailto:drdean@execpc.com > Web Page at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/home.htm > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: drdean@execpc.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: More SuperFil From: Mike Mims Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:35:38 -0700 X-Message-Number: 14 Dean Collette wrote: > > My spell checker got the better of me on my last post. All of the "supernal" > should read "SuperFil". Sorry about that. > I did a web search and I was wondering how Supernal worked on a homebuilt. :o) http://www.supernal.com/pcbuild.html -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: I need Monty Miller's phone number From: EagleGator@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:09:31 EDT X-Message-Number: 15 I am going to look at a project tomorrow evening here in St. Louis that a gentleman has for sale. All I know for sure is that it is close to being complete, with all parts to finish, sans engine. I'll take pictures and post a complete description tomorrow night on my web page. This gentleman would also like to advertise in the newsletter, and wants to talk to Monty about it. Can anyone help me out with the phone number? Thanks in advance! Please respond directly to me as I am on the digest and would like to pass this info as early as possible on Wednesday. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St.Charles MO KR-2S N415RJ 35% complete still (yes, I'm a member of Mark's club!!!!!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Bandsaw sources? From: Totryroma@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 03:09:10 EDT X-Message-Number: 16 I would like to find a source for a decent metal cutting bandsaw for making aluminum fittings. I didn't find much on a web search (I don't want to cut meat!). I got a $100 - 49 1/4" band machine locally but now cannot find any place with 49" metal cutting blades! Yes, I'm in the middle of nowhere in the Nebraska plains. That's why I'm building the plane! Any suggestions from the boys? (Would like to keep $200 or less ...) Ron Macomber South Sioux City, NE --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com