From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Saturday, June 19, 1999 12:13 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: June 18, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Friday, June 18, 1999. 1. Re: widened fuselage 2. Re: widened fuselage 3. Re: redrives and prop RPM 4. Tap and die question 5. Re: Insurance 6. Prop bolts...and 'Vairs 7. Re: Da Gathering 8. Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs 9. Re: N415RJ Progress Report 10. Re: Tap and die question 11. Tank sealing 12. KR Insurance 13. Re: Tap and die question 14. Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs 15. Re: Tank sealing 16. Re: Tap and die question 17. RE:Tank sealing 18. Torque vs. Horsepower 19. Re: Tank sealing 20. Re: Torque vs. Horsepower 21. Porsche engine 22. re KRs 23. Re: Taps 24. Ross, Canadian checks 25. Fw: CARB QUESTIONS 26. Re: cookout &campout 27. Re: Torque vs. Horsepower 28. Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs 29. Re: Porsche engine 30. RE:Tank sealing 31. Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs 32. Re: redrives and prop RPM 33. Re: widened fuselage 34. Re: Fw: Need to find 35. Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs 36. Re: Da Gathering 37. Re: Tap and die question 38. Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs 39. Re: KR Insurance 40. Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs 41. RE:Tank sealing 42. Re: Porsche engine 43. Re: Fw: CARB QUESTIONS 44. Re: Still reading only ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: widened fuselage From: "Blandford, Carlton C" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:28:36 +0200 X-Message-Number: 1 You guys are obviously referring to my bird so here are the facts. The tanks hold about 25 litres of fuel each and this is transferred to the main header tank via a transfer pump from each tank. Only the front section holds fuel, the tank is sealed in the middle with a baffle. These tanks are only used on long trips, you can't land with the tanks full otherwise you are really going to have a bad day. Takeoff is no problem. We have two KR's flying with these tanks installed and the owners have reported no real problems. Carlton Blandford -----Original Message----- From: Totryroma@aol.com [mailto:Totryroma@aol.com] Sent: 18 June 1999 08:59 To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: widened fuselage Toby -- If Wing tip tanks look "COOL" and as Mark says may cause you some control problems, Who says there has to be anything in them but AIR? I always loved the Navion too. My Dad flew me around in one when I was a kid back in the 40's. Just a though! Ron Macomber South Sioux City, NE --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: CBlandford@mail.sbic.co.za To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: widened fuselage From: Richard Parker Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:11:27 PDT X-Message-Number: 2 ... >a lot more research than I. I agree with you about replacing the header >tank with stub wing tanks. But I want to take it further. I think I'm >gonna go with wingtip tanks, kinda like that South African KR-2. I fell in >love with the tip-tanks after looking at a Navion at the FBO a couple weeks >back. I would think, though, that this would require additional structural >support, mostly for while you're on the ground. The moment on the wing >would be pretty high with full tanks. Comments, anyone? >Toby Dunham heres my comment: Put the fuel in the stubs and make the tips tanks out of foam for looks. no structural modifications needed. Rich Parker You get what you pay for - Hotmail, its free! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: redrives and prop RPM From: "Blandford, Carlton C" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:27:55 +0200 X-Message-Number: 3 Hi Tom, I've actually had the pitch set at 12 degrees at one stage but felt very nervous with that screaming monster up front. I had visions of the engine taking off without the rest of the plane. There seems to be a fine line on the final settings of the pitch as a two degree change dropped the rpm by 1000. I might set the pitch to about 13 degrees, this should bring the rpm up to about 4500. I'll see how things go!! I think I was just lucky to have chosen the 1.47 reduction because I remember some of the local engineering guys advising me to go for a 2:1 ratio. I wanted to keep the rev's down, how can an auto engine rev at 5000 rpm for one or even two hours on a cross country flight. I'm glad now that I made my own decision as I'm sure the engine should last a little longer. My exspected cruise will be at around 3500rpm. I'm still running my drive direct, I've actually been hammering the throttle on these taxi tests to see if the drive can hold up to the applied power. No problems yet!! I must add that the acceleration is outstanding, reminds me of my old Golf GTi. I would definitely recommend the extra horses up front, when you need it, it's there on tap. I believe a VW at 5500ft will just not develop enough power to fly two up on a hot day. You need a turbo at high alt airfields. A stock VW is OK at sea level...my views. PS I'm finished with my webpage, I've already moved in to Geocities but can't get my indexpage working properly, should get it sorted out this weekend. Cheers Carlton Blandford -----Original Message----- From: Tom Andersen [mailto:tomkr2s@t-three.com] Sent: 17 June 1999 02:03 To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: redrives and prop RPM Hi Carlton, It seems that your prop is unloading a lot, even at the low speeds reached on taxi tests. You might want to set your pitch lower like to 12 degrees for your first flights. This will give better climb, and allow the engine to come up to the 4800rpm in that climb. On your first flights you want altitude and you want it as fast as possible. It sounds like you've got puuulennnty of power from that watercooled 2.1L VW with reduction drive and 3-blade warp drive. With that adjustable pitch prop you'll be able to maximize your cruise speed in subsequent flights, and the third blade will help transfer some of that 112hp. I really like your innovative use of the watercooled VW and redrive. I think you've got the ratio correct at 1.47. I just posted yesterday I thought the ideal for a Subaru powered KR was 1.55. I wasn't far from your thinking. You really have the right idea for a reduction drive on a KR, what with the short 3-blade Warp drive and 1.47 gear ratio. I can't wait to see your numbers when you get it all tuned up after test flying. Did you ever get rubber dampeners installed in your redrive? -Tom Andersen Orlando, FL -----Original Message----- From: Blandford, Carlton C To: KR-net users group Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 7:10 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: redrives and prop RPM >Hi Chaps, >though I'd give some imput on this. >My bird has a three blade 55" warp drive running through a 1.47:1 reduction. >I've set the pitch so the engine runs at 4000rpm static at full throttle, >this gives you about 2700rpm on the prop. Engine is rated at 112HP at >4800rpm and 165ft.lb torque at 2800rpm. >Although I'm still busy with high speed taxi tests 60 mph is reached at a >little over half throttle (about 3000rpm on engine) with one aboard. With >two guys aboard the same speed is reached at almost full throttle (3800rpm). >This was about half way down the runway, about 550ft. >I would say that the more torque you get from your engine the more course >the pitch can be set, hence a better cruise speed at the end of the day. >The less torque the finer the pitch the worse the cruise but a better climb >will be achieved......I speak under correction on this one. > My pitch is set on 14,5 degrees at 1/2 inch from the tip of the blade, I >think this is maybe about a 53" pitch...anyone know how to work this out? > >I'm hoping to have this baby airborne in the next week or so. > >PS I must apologise to all the guys that requested a copy of the preview of >the plans for the Sabaru reduction, I'm still working on getting a copy but >the chap hasn't been available lately. > >Happy landings >Regards >Carlton Blandford > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Mims [mailto:mikemims@home.com] >Sent: 16 June 1999 04:09 >To: KR-net users group >Subject: [kr-net] Re: redrives and prop RPM > > >jscott.pilot@juno.com wrote: >> >> A shorter prop may not reach the peak efficiency we would all desire, but >> I think the statement that "a 60 inch prop at 2500 rpm will make at 110 >> mph KR" is simply untrue. >> > >Gee Jeff I cant even have fun with the re-drive guys anymore! :o) When >I made that comment obviously I was exaggerating to some extent. But I >still had Warp Drive prop on the brain. For some reason I just don't >think those skinny little blade profiles would be that affective at such >a low RPM. Seems that with the skinny blades one would need as much >length as possible to make it work out. We on the other hand with our >big fat wooden props get away with that kind of RPM because of all the >prop blade area. Sorry for the confusion. And as always there is a >chance that I am just blowing smoke and have no idea what I am talking >about! :o) > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >Filling and Sanding again! >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >http://members.home.com/mikemims/ >Aliso Viejo CA >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: CBlandford@mail.sbic.co.za >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomkr2s@t-three.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: CBlandford@mail.sbic.co.za To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Tap and die question From: Oscar Zuniga Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:55:11 PDT X-Message-Number: 4 OK, I guess here is where I show my ignorance. Let's say I want to thread a hole to receive a 1/4" NF bolt. I don't just drill a 1/4" hole and then run my tap in there? It seems that there are supposed to be "in between" number and letter bits appropriate for that. Thanks Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Insurance From: Malcolm Hartman Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:09:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Message-Number: 5 If you use the EAA tech. counsler and flight advisor programs, AVEMCO will insure your first flights. I started flying my 2s last July. At the time I had approximately 160 total hours and very little tail wheel. Now I have a grand total of a whopping 220 hours with about 55 of that tail wheel. I recently got the renewal policy. My $1M libility runs about $450 and $15K hull insurance is about $950 annually. My premiums did not go down after the first year or the first 40 hours. Maybe next year they'll give me a break, yea right. Malcolm P.S. Thats right, I flew the first flight and all flights to follow. --- Ross Youngblood wrote: > My understanding is that all we are talking about is > liability. > In your case you have a great well rounded logbook. > My friend > is a low time pilot (100 hours or so like me). > > > -- Regards > Ross > > jscott.pilot@juno.com wrote: > > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:44:56 -0700 Ross Youngblood > > > writes: > > > So, now that we are on the topic of insurance... > a friend of mine > > >just finished his Zodiac, and is trying to get > insurance for his > > >flying. I have ground only coverage now at about > $380 or so a year. > > >I'm wondering what folks are paying, and if they > were able to get > > >coverage for the first flights. Looks like it is > difficult to get > > >coverage for those first 40 hours. > > > Comments? > > > -- Ross > > > > > > > Are you talking about hull insurance or simple > liability? And how much > > liability? > > > > I did get $1,000,000 liability for the first > flight through Avemco. The > > first two years were at $411/year. This year it > went down to $373. Your > > mileage may vary depending on time in similar > airplanes, your total > > hours, and taildragger hours if your plane is a > taildragger. > > > > Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM > > mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com > > See N1213w construction and first flight at > > http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet > access for a month! > > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: > rossy@teleport.com > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: > n926fw@yahoo.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs From: Oscar Zuniga Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:26:22 PDT X-Message-Number: 6 Jeff wrote: >Most VW and smaller engines are >using 5/16" (AN5) bolts for the prop bolts. OK, I show my ignorance again: I've seen reference to Grade 8 bolts for the prop (and other locations). Yet I don't seem to find Grade 8 bolts in my Wicks or AS&S catalog, but I do find "prop bolts". What are Gr8 and why do I want them? I'm assuming they are higher strength? Also...since it's Friday...for you 'Vair heads who can't get in touch with William Wynne to order or inquire about his manual for converting the Corvair for aircraft use, the manual is available through Corvair Underground for $49.95 (Wynne charges $49). It's at http://www.corvairunderground.com; I got the Corvair Underground catalog if anybody is interested, and will be ordering the conversion manual next week. This week was the Corvair Society of America convention at Lake Tahoe, so nobody was in the office, but I will be talking with Lon Wall (the owner) next week about their shop, which works exclusively on Corvairs. I might be talked into loaning the manual out after I get to look at it, if you send Ross $10 to keep him in chemicals for his hot tub. We all know that's what he really uses the $$ for. ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Da Gathering From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:48:38 -0400 X-Message-Number: 7 Mike, What mods do they need to make on that airframe to allow the higher power and airspeeds? I imagine multiple balance weights for the ailerons, combined to slightly overbalance the ailerons' weight. Maybe some additional reinforcement on the engine mounts? -Tom -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims To: KR-net users group Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 10:29 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Da Gathering >Tom Andersen wrote: >> >> We will be seeing some very interesting KR engines in the next few years. The 0-290 has got to be the biggest engine ever used on a KR,>>> > >There is a derivative running a 180 hp Lycoming 360. > > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >Filling and Sanding again! >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >http://members.home.com/mikemims/ >Aliso Viejo CA >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomkr2s@t-three.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs From: Tobin Dunham Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:51:21 PDT X-Message-Number: 8 Oscar Zuniga wrote: >OK, I show my ignorance again: I've seen reference to Grade 8 bolts for the >prop (and other locations). Yet I don't seem to find Grade 8 bolts in my >Wicks or AS&S catalog, but I do find "prop bolts". What are Gr8 and why do >I want them? I'm assuming they are higher strength? Grade 8 is just another common grade of bolt material, like b7. We use it a lot on our offshore gas compression equipment, mainly to anchor big compressors (52,000lb) and other equipment (like the big 72,000lb Cat engines). So that should give you a hint as to the strength and durability of grade 8 bolts, especially for high-vibration and high-strength requirements. My opinion, they are more than adequate for prop applications. But they will rust if you don't buy them plated. I suggest zinc chromate, but cadmium plating is acceptable. Toby Dunham Houston, TX P.S. Who is responsible for adding new people to this list? My brother has been trying to get on for 2 weeks now and hasn't been added. Should he resubmit his request? Thanks... _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: N415RJ Progress Report From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:35:14 -0400 X-Message-Number: 9 I had one of my tanks ram air vent pipes stopped up something dirtdobber resin? I had to cut into myr wing to replace a new vent pipe, in doing so I wound up with some leaks. What did you use to seal the tanks and where did you but it. By the way on a personal note. I travered over 2.5 million miles in show business and I have been in your town of Corvillis Washington a lot of times over the last 30 years. Regards, R. W. Moore --- Original Message ----- From: Ross Youngblood To: KR-net users group Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: N415RJ Progress Report > I used red food coloring, it didn't help too much. I had to cut the > wing open and flox the entire tank seal area... then I posted to KR-net > that the plans should have people build the tanks and leak test them > BEFORE enclosing them into the wing. > > -- Ross > > R.W. Moore wrote: > > > > If you wanted to put some coloring in water to help find a leak in a wing > > tank what would you use. Can anyone help. me. I have a KR 1, that has a leak > > in one of the wing tanks. or what could be used. > > R. W. Moore > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ross Youngblood > > To: KR-net users group > > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 1:51 PM > > Subject: [kr-net] Re: N415RJ Progress Report > > > > > Go Rick GO!!!! > > > I know about this! I have a friend who has gone from crate to > > > airplane in about two an a half years on a Zenair Zodiac. He phoned > > > me this week with the "bad" news. He needs to share my hanger after > > > he gets the DAR sign-off. And I'm still fumbling around... > > > -- Ross > > > > > > EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > After about a year and a half of no progress for the "usual reasons", > > the > > > > Phantom Eagle is back in production! > > > > > > > > This weekend saw the fuselage bottom and right side get a layer of 1.45 > > oz > > > > deck cloth applied, the left side happens tonight. The horizontal > > stabilizer > > > > and elevator got more filling and sanding, and will be ready to attach > > to the > > > > fuselage once the glass is cured. The rudder pedals were removed from > > the > > > > floor of the cockpit and are being readied for re-installation on the > > lower > > > > shelf, complete with redesigned toe brakes (still in the fabrication > > > > process). The tail wheel was removed and the tail block reshaped to > > allow > > > > better operation of the tailwheel, as well as fair the block into the > > > > fuselage (looks REAL nice with the glass on it). > > > > > > > > I drew the plans for the molds for my stub wing skins last night, and > > will > > > > pick up the Formica(R) later this week to build them. I reviewed some of > > my > > > > collection of "neat things I might want to do with my airplane" and will > > > > begin construction of two home-made capacitance fuel senders some time > > next > > > > week. They will work very nicely as baffles in the 6 gal tanks I've > > devised > > > > for each of the wing stubs. I'm sending a shopping list with a friend > > who's > > > > driving over to Wicks' tomorrow, and that should keep me in supplies for > > the > > > > next month or so. > > > > > > > > All that accomplished with about 12 hours of quality time this weekend. > > It > > > > sure felt good to be building again, I highly recommend it to anyone > > else who > > > > has been idle for a while. Now, just a couple of hours a night for the > > next > > > > year, and I'll be flying in no time! > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Rick Junkin > > > > EagleGator@aol.com > > > > St. Charles MO > > > > N415RJ ~35% complete and progressing rapidly! > > > > > > > > --- > > > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tap and die question From: "Mark Langford" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:26:38 -0500 X-Message-Number: 10 Oscar wrote: >OK, I guess here is where I show my ignorance. Let's say I want to thread a >hole to receive a 1/4" NF bolt. I don't just drill a 1/4" hole and then run >my tap in there? It seems that there are supposed to be "in between" number >and letter bits appropriate for that. Nope. For 1/4 -20 use a .2245 drill, for 1/4-28 use .2318 diameter drills. Then tap it out... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Tank sealing From: Tobin Dunham Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:38:51 PDT X-Message-Number: 11 Ok, I'm not trying to reply to every single message, but I want to throw this out. Someone asked about what to use to seal a tank (sorry, I deleted it before I caught the name). Just an idea - a couple years ago I developed a leak in one of my Harley Davidson fuel tanks. The motorcycle shops carry a good product that I can't remember the name of. It's a thick, white goo that you put in the tank and roll the tank around to coat the inside. Works great for motorcycles, but might not be as easy to roll an airplane around :o) If you can get to it easily, it's a good cheap way to go. Toby Dunham Houston, TX _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR Insurance From: EagleGator@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:40:53 EDT X-Message-Number: 12 Hi folks, I did some research a couple of years ago on insurance, and located a broker who said he could get you insured in a KR, I believe he quoted something around $300. I don't have my files here at work, so I can't recall the exact details, but contact Scott Smith at (800) 743-1439. Tell him I sent you ;o) By the way, sorry for setting off the last KRNet food fight. I'm on the digest, so I didn't see the complete onslaught until yesterday afternoon. My Porsche engine post was targeted at the folks who have the expertise on the engine (yes, it is an aero conversion). I'll be sure to include more detail in the future so that everyone will understand what I'm talking about (including me?). In the future, if anyone has a gripe with something I post, please email me directly and I'll remedy the situation as best I am able to. Sorry for the confusion. And thanks very much to all who replied with valuable info -- as always, KRNet proved itself as the valuable resource we all know that it is. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles MO KR-2S N415RJ 37% complete, progressing rapidly! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tap and die question From: Richard Parker Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:59:49 PDT X-Message-Number: 13 #7 (.201) for 1/4 -20 or 13/64 (.203) #3 (.213) for 1/4 -28 tap Rich Parker >From: Oscar Zuniga >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Tap and die question >Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:55:11 PDT > >OK, I guess here is where I show my ignorance. Let's say I want to thread >a >hole to receive a 1/4" NF bolt. I don't just drill a 1/4" hole and then >run >my tap in there? It seems that there are supposed to be "in between" >number >and letter bits appropriate for that. > >Thanks > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, OR >website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs From: Richard Parker Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:02:11 PDT X-Message-Number: 14 FYI, If you run short, most of you guys can get grade 8's at your local hardware store. They wont carry as many sizes though as Wicks. Rich Parker >From: Oscar Zuniga >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Prop bolts...and 'Vairs >Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:26:22 PDT > >Jeff wrote: >>Most VW and smaller engines are >>using 5/16" (AN5) bolts for the prop bolts. > >OK, I show my ignorance again: I've seen reference to Grade 8 bolts for the >prop (and other locations). Yet I don't seem to find Grade 8 bolts in my >Wicks or AS&S catalog, but I do find "prop bolts". What are Gr8 and why do >I want them? I'm assuming they are higher strength? > >Also...since it's Friday...for you 'Vair heads who can't get in touch with >William Wynne to order or inquire about his manual for converting the >Corvair for aircraft use, the manual is available through Corvair >Underground for $49.95 (Wynne charges $49). It's at >http://www.corvairunderground.com; I got the Corvair Underground catalog if >anybody is interested, and will be ordering the conversion manual next >week. > This week was the Corvair Society of America convention at Lake Tahoe, so >nobody was in the office, but I will be talking with Lon Wall (the owner) >next week about their shop, which works exclusively on Corvairs. I might >be >talked into loaning the manual out after I get to look at it, if you send >Ross $10 to keep him in chemicals for his hot tub. We all know that's what >he really uses the $$ for. ;o) > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, Oregon >website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tank sealing From: "cmidkiff" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:18:12 -0700 X-Message-Number: 15 I've used the product also to seal up motorcycle tanks. With metal tanks they recommend using an etching chemical first, then the sealant. The sealant I used on the motorcycle was called a sloshing compound. You can also find this tank sealant in old vintage car restoration shops, which is where I bought it the last time. Bud Midkiff KR2 (Stretched 15" & all wood work finished) Lynnwood, WA cmidkiff@gte.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Tobin Dunham To: KR-net users group Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 7:38 AM Subject: [kr-net] Tank sealing > Ok, I'm not trying to reply to every single message, but I want to throw > this out. Someone asked about what to use to seal a tank (sorry, I deleted > it before I caught the name). > > Just an idea - a couple years ago I developed a leak in one of my Harley > Davidson fuel tanks. The motorcycle shops carry a good product that I can't > remember the name of. It's a thick, white goo that you put in the tank and > roll the tank around to coat the inside. Works great for motorcycles, but > might not be as easy to roll an airplane around :o) If you can get to it > easily, it's a good cheap way to go. > > Toby Dunham > Houston, TX > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cmidkiff@gte.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tap and die question From: Richard Parker Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:14:28 PDT X-Message-Number: 16 >Nope. For 1/4 -20 use a .2245 drill, for 1/4-28 use .2318 diameter drills. >Then tap it out... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE:Tank sealing From: Richard Parker Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:36:31 PDT X-Message-Number: 17 Sloshing compounds should be approached with caution especially if they are designed for metal or rubber tanks. Its no big deal if it deteriorates on your Harley, but climbing out of a tough feild and having your fuel system plug up is another story. I'd stay away from them in airplane use. Rich Parker >From: "cmidkiff" >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" >To: "KR-net users group" >Subject: [kr-net] Re: Tank sealing >Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:18:12 -0700 > >I've used the product also to seal up motorcycle tanks. With metal tanks >they recommend using an etching chemical first, then the sealant. The >sealant I used on the motorcycle was called a sloshing compound. You can >also find this tank sealant in old vintage car restoration shops, which is >where I bought it the last time. > >Bud Midkiff KR2 (Stretched 15" & all wood work finished) >Lynnwood, WA >cmidkiff@gte.net > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Tobin Dunham >To: KR-net users group >Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 7:38 AM >Subject: [kr-net] Tank sealing > > > > Ok, I'm not trying to reply to every single message, but I want to throw > > this out. Someone asked about what to use to seal a tank (sorry, I >deleted > > it before I caught the name). > > > > Just an idea - a couple years ago I developed a leak in one of my Harley > > Davidson fuel tanks. The motorcycle shops carry a good product that I >can't > > remember the name of. It's a thick, white goo that you put in the tank >and > > roll the tank around to coat the inside. Works great for motorcycles, >but > > might not be as easy to roll an airplane around :o) If you can get to >it > > easily, it's a good cheap way to go. > > > > Toby Dunham > > Houston, TX > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cmidkiff@gte.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Torque vs. Horsepower From: Doug Peyton Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:08:22 PDT X-Message-Number: 18 What is torque? What is horsepower in relation to torque? Why do you-all/we use two different ways of measuring work done by an engine? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tank sealing From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:12:41 -0400 X-Message-Number: 19 MY TANKS ARE FIBERGLASS. R. W. MOORE ----- Original Message ----- From: cmidkiff To: KR-net users group Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:18 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Tank sealing > I've used the product also to seal up motorcycle tanks. With metal tanks > they recommend using an etching chemical first, then the sealant. The > sealant I used on the motorcycle was called a sloshing compound. You can > also find this tank sealant in old vintage car restoration shops, which is > where I bought it the last time. > > Bud Midkiff KR2 (Stretched 15" & all wood work finished) > Lynnwood, WA > cmidkiff@gte.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tobin Dunham > To: KR-net users group > Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 7:38 AM > Subject: [kr-net] Tank sealing > > > > Ok, I'm not trying to reply to every single message, but I want to throw > > this out. Someone asked about what to use to seal a tank (sorry, I > deleted > > it before I caught the name). > > > > Just an idea - a couple years ago I developed a leak in one of my Harley > > Davidson fuel tanks. The motorcycle shops carry a good product that I > can't > > remember the name of. It's a thick, white goo that you put in the tank > and > > roll the tank around to coat the inside. Works great for motorcycles, but > > might not be as easy to roll an airplane around :o) If you can get to it > > easily, it's a good cheap way to go. > > > > Toby Dunham > > Houston, TX > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cmidkiff@gte.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Torque vs. Horsepower From: Tobin Dunham Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:52:02 PDT X-Message-Number: 20 Doug Peyton wrote >What is torque? What is horsepower in relation to torque? Why do >you-all/we use two different ways of measuring work done by an engine? Ok, I'll take a shot at this, until someone else corrects me :) Torque is measured usually in ft-lbs. It's basically the amount of bending moment produced (or "twisting" for a prop). If you take a 10ft pole and suspend 10lbs off the end of it, you have 10ft x 10lbs = 100ft-lbs. So when talking about props, the torque is how much power you have available to "pull" the plane (if you will), especially when climbing. Horsepower is the amount of torque per unit of time developed by the engine. 1 hp is 42.4 BTU/min, which no one understands. It can be converted to ft-lbs(force)/sec. So 1hp = 550ft-lbf/sec. As it is applied to your plane, the engine puts out a certain horsepower, by nature of that engine's internal combustion and valves and timing and all that stuff. At the shaft, you will have a certain torque associated with it. Now, using longer prop blades will affect your power because you have to develop more torque from the shaft, which depends on available hp, as opposed to shorter blades. BUT - it depends on your prop angle and a whole bunch of other factors like density of the air. Your goal should be to maximize the efficiency of the prop by choosing one with characteristics that match your engine's potential and your optimum altitude/power setting. If I'm mistaken on any point, please feel free to flame me. It's Friday, and work is rather slow today.... Toby Dunham, Houston, TX _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Porsche engine From: "Juergen Esser" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:25:33 +0200 X-Message-Number: 21 Hi guys. Sometimes it seems you booked all the mankinds knowlegde. Or you have to much time during the day. The Porsche engine was a new design from Porsche 25 years ago. It was designed as an aircraft engine with integrated redrive. C172=B4s and 182=B4= s were converted to these engines with moderate results. The engine has had= to many parts and was to difficult design to compete with this havy metal fr= om oversea. At least Porsche stopped production of engines and parts, so the last few engines are running out. I think it is not possible to put this engine into a KR because it has between 150-200 hp, but the question was not that stupid as it seemed to you. Juergen Esser, Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: re KRs From: "Jack C Steele" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:58:10 -0400 X-Message-Number: 22 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEB9A3.5CEE9520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From the comments on enlarging the pane to accomodate hight and butts, = It sounds like we need a re engineered KR2L From a luker and flyer Jack ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEB9A3.5CEE9520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  From the comments on = enlarging the pane=20 to accomodate hight and butts,  It sounds like we need a re = engineered=20 KR2L
   From a luker and = flyer
  = Jack
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEB9A3.5CEE9520-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Taps From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:15:36 EDT X-Message-Number: 23 Oscar For future reference you may want to stop at your hardware store or library and copy the chart of drill sizes for various tap sizes. I have a flat drill index in decimal size that I got from Sears that gives the info. Somewhere I also read that there is a very slight difference in drill size depending upon the material being tapped. The softer the material, the smaller the drill size. By the way, in the machine shops at Cessna, they used bees wax on the tools to prevent the alum chips from sticking. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Ross, Canadian checks From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:30:25 EDT X-Message-Number: 24 Ross Mailed check this evening. Thanks for the address. I'm surprised at your bank. Every bank in the world has a unique number printed on the check called a transit number. Usually when the deposit is checked by the bank in their proof department, the fact that a check is foreign is caught by the transit number and they will debit or credit the deposit by the amount of the exchange rate on the day of the deposit. Take the check to your bank's collection department. There will be a fee for collection plus the exchange rate difference but at least you will get something. If this doesn't work, find another bank. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Fw: CARB QUESTIONS From: "garbez" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:32:01 -0500 X-Message-Number: 25 Dear KRnet, This is to all you guys that fly VW engines in your KR's. Please respond to this. I am having trouble with carbs and fuel mixture. Right now I'm running a Revflow carb, it's like a Posa. It has no low end adjustment. Fuel flow is controled by the needle and mixture addjustment. The engine will only run at full rich at full throttle and full lean at lower throttle settings, you have to adjust both throttle and mixture at the same time. I was told that the engine should run full rich at all throttle settings. Well not true. I called Revflow and told them my problem and they made me two more needles , but neither of them worked. Looking the carb over it seems the needles just regulate the flow of fuel. So I put a secondary ignition system in it thinking I would get a better fuel burn, it helped a little but did not solve the problem. What's the deal here is something wrong with the bosch plugs that Steve sells that I'am using or is something wrong with the engine? Or is Revflow a piece of trash? Also flight report N998MG has left the runway surface today, but I set it back down because of carb problem. My airspeed indicator said I was going 80 MPH, the plane felt like it was glued to the runway, maybe more back pressure is needed? What should my take off speed be in a 700 lbs. airplane with an 1835 VW engine, tri gear plus fuel and a 180 lbs. of me? Thanks again Mike Garbez N998MG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: cookout &campout From: "terry chizek" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:02:26 -0500 X-Message-Number: 26 ---------- > From: FLYKR2S@aol.com > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Interesting Site > Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 2:14 PM > > Hi KR'ers, I am having a cookout and campout at Marion, KS (43K) July 10th, 1999 Saturday around 6:30pm. If anyone is in the neighborhood you are welcome to join us. We will have a couple speakers after the meal one will be talking about his combat missions he flew in his B25 in World WarII and the other will be the history and the remaking of the 1919 Longren and I will have my Kr2 and the Kr2s that I am building. If need more information e-mail me at chitl@southwind.net Terry Chizek ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Torque vs. Horsepower From: Donald Reid Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:10:07 -0400 X-Message-Number: 27 Doug Peyton wrote: > > What is torque? What is horsepower in relation to torque? Why do > you-all/we use two different ways of measuring work done by an engine? The standard conversion for transmitted power by a shaft spinning at N revolutions per minute is torque (inch-pounds) = 63025 * horsepower / N With a little algebra, you can convert one to the other and change to foot-pounds if you prefer. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs From: Donald Reid Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:13:42 -0400 X-Message-Number: 28 Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Jeff wrote: > >Most VW and smaller engines are > >using 5/16" (AN5) bolts for the prop bolts. > > OK, I show my ignorance again: I've seen reference to Grade 8 bolts for the > prop (and other locations). Yet I don't seem to find Grade 8 bolts in my > Wicks or AS&S catalog, but I do find "prop bolts". What are Gr8 and why do > I want them? I'm assuming they are higher strength? If memory serves . . . now what was going to say? I remember that Gr8 bolts are a little stronger than aircraft, but they are more brittle. My machine reference is at work, not here at home. I do know that a lot of aircraft references say NOT to use Gr8 bolts as a replacement. I think that the lower endurance limits are the reason. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Porsche engine From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:15:52 -0700 X-Message-Number: 29 Juergen Esser wrote: > > I think it is not possible to put this engine into a KR because it has > between 150-200 hp, but the question was not that stupid as it seemed to > you. > > Juergen, I think most of us here in the US are familiar with the Porsche aircraft engine that found its way into a few Cessnas and Mooneys back in the 80s. I really doubt this is the engine Rick was talking about. There have been a few 914 and 912 motors converted to aircraft use utilizing VW conversion parts and they are in circulation here in North America. Most of these engines are nothing more than the type 4 VW motors that people have decided to call "Porsche" engines because they are so similar to the 914 motor. In fact there were lots of true "Porsche" motors built that looked somewhat like the VW motor but they had overhead cams and other cool high performance stuff. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE:Tank sealing From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:21:06 -0700 X-Message-Number: 30 Richard Parker wrote: > > Sloshing compounds should be approached with caution especially if they are > designed for metal or rubber tanks. >>>>> I think I would use this stuff as a last resort. It seems that sloshing compounds have done more harm in airplanes than good. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:30:33 -0400 X-Message-Number: 31 At 08:13 PM 6/18/99 -0400, you wrote: >Oscar Zuniga wrote: >> >> Jeff wrote: >> >Most VW and smaller engines are >> >using 5/16" (AN5) bolts for the prop bolts. >> >> OK, I show my ignorance again: I've seen reference to Grade 8 bolts for the >> prop (and other locations). Yet I don't seem to find Grade 8 bolts in my >> Wicks or AS&S catalog, but I do find "prop bolts". What are Gr8 and why do >> I want them? I'm assuming they are higher strength? > >If memory serves . . . now what was going to say? > >I remember that Gr8 bolts are a little stronger than aircraft, but they >are more brittle. My machine reference is at work, not here at home. I >do know that a lot of aircraft references say NOT to use Gr8 bolts as a >replacement. I think that the lower endurance limits are the reason. According to what I've read, all A/C bolts have rolled threads, while the commonly available Gr8 bolts have cut threads. Rolled threads are stronger in the area of the bottom of the threads, and therefore are more durable over time in A/C use. Also, A/C bolts have just enough threads to capture the bolt with, while commonly available Gr8 bolts have longer threaded areas, which is not what you want in A/C use. Recently, I spent some time examining bolts at my local hardware store and I can see why anyone would want to use A/C bolts rather then Gr8 bolts. Bottom line is, A/C bolts are designed specifically for A/C use and I won't be cutting any corners in this application. WD --------------------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA mailto:dodger@accessnode.net (new address) mailto:dodger@coincidental.net (old address) http://accessnode.net/~dodger --------------------------------------------------------- Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: redrives and prop RPM From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:36:16 -0300 X-Message-Number: 32 Dear Tom I have a special interests with respect to motors, especially to the Subaru. I reed in your mail that one can obtain 112 Hp with the appropriate reduction. Wich motor is it, 1600, 1800? How it is that the reduction can allow you to absorb bigger power? When you say VW watercooled, do you refer to the Subaru, or does some modification of the VW exist? Thanks Eduardo -----Mensaje original----- De: Tom Andersen Para: KR-net users group Fecha: Jueves, 17 de Junio de 1999 09:04 a.m. Asunto: [kr-net] Re: redrives and prop RPM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: widened fuselage From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:47:22 -0300 X-Message-Number: 33 Mark I built the tanks of gasoline in the outer wings, in the first compartment and I don't have interferences with the retractile train neither with the commands. The way is the same one that you describe in your site and each one has 27 liters. I hope this experience will be from utility to some of the netīs. -----Mensaje original----- De: Mark Langford Para: KR-net users group Fecha: Jueves, 17 de Junio de 1999 10:13 p.m. Asunto: [kr-net] Re: widened fuselage >> I gotta say I'm impressed with your knowledge and expertise on this whole >> affair. Hey, I don't suppose you could build it for me?? :o) > >Yep, it's amazing how only 6 years of research can make me look informed on >the subject. As for building it for you, I've been looking for a good >excuse to start over, but I'd probably better finish mine first. > >One other ramification of widening the fuselage without widening the stub >wings is that you make your wingtanks a little smaller. But even after >stretching mine about 3 inches, and throwing away another 3 inches each side >between fuselage and tank, I still will have19 gallons, which should be >enough to get me there. One piece of advice to folks who are installing >wingtanks is "don't forget your aileron cables have to run somewhere". I'd >run them first, then build the wing tanks. Tip tanks are cool, but putting >weight that far out on the wing is going to make for interesting roll trim >control as fuel burns off. You may be spending a lot of time on fuel >management, something I'm hoping to avoid altogether. > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: emiglesias@cpenet.com.ar >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fw: Need to find From: Scott Stanton Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:57:46 -0400 X-Message-Number: 34 Here is the "Perfect Landing" paper that Jim Faughn wrote sometime ago. Just for the record, I have been reading through the archives and I just passed this a few days ago. I have a good memory, but not good enough to remember what was written 2 years ago. (Especially since I only joined a couple of months ago). Enjoy! Scott The "Perfect" Landing - In a KR??? After my test flight in my KR-2 I thought every landing would be as good. However, it seems that first landing was my best until I sat down to analyze each and every step before touchdown. The purpose of this article is to present the plan I use before each landing in hopes that it will help KR builders getting ready for their first flight and those having problems with consistent landings. Each phase of the landing process must be planned and executed if the successful touchdown will be made. I will try to explain each step along with the speeds and altitudes for each phase of the landing. Please keep in mind that those of us who fly experimental aircraft do not have calibrated airspeed systems and your speeds may and probably will be different. For your information, N891JF has an empty weight of 625 lbs, no flaps, I weigh 190 lbs, and typically carry 15 lbs of stuff in my baggage area. Phase 1 - Approach to the airport - The KR is a very slippery aircraft and you must plan to start slowing down before you reach the downwind leg of the airport pattern. I always try to descend to traffic pattern altitude (800 agl) and obtain a speed of 120 mph on downwind. Phase 2 - Downwind - When I have stabilized my speed on downwind, 120 mph, my RPM on the 2180 VW with a 52 X 52 prop is around 2000. This is a very comfortable speed to check all instruments, ensure the mixture is at full rich, and plan the touchdown point. Don't forget to plan for either a strong headwind or a crosswind component. If you are facing a strong crosswind, this is the time to review what you will do at touchdown. (Which wing you will have low on approach and which wheel you will land on first.) You may not have time for "thinking" later. Phase 3 - Base - The base leg will be flown at 90 to 100 mph. I use the turn to aid in decreasing speed and lower my RPM to around 1600 to 1800. During the base leg, I will descend to an altitude of approximately 500 agl. Phase 4 - Turn to final - This is one of your great opportunities to decrease altitude. I usually slip (if it is a left pattern) on this turn to decrease altitude to 300 agl as I enter the final leg. It is important that you determine your best altitudes for each of the legs and always consider safety. In other words, remember, in case of engine failure, altitude is your best asset! Phase 5 - Final - Your two most important considerations on final are altitude and speed. You can always decrease altitude with a controlled slip. (The KR slips very good.) However, it is extremely difficult to decrease speed once you have let it build up. On final I will fly at 80 mph until I reach mid final, then I will decrease to 70 mph. I will hold this speed until short final (cross the end of the runway) at which time I begin decreasing speed. Phase 6 - Float - The KR is so close to the ground that you will encounter ground effect in a VERY big way. You can and should use this to your advantage in making the "perfect" landing. Patience is a huge virtue during this phase. I will NEVER land my airplane above 60 mph. If I try, and for the first 60 hours I tried all the way up to 80 mph, I WILL bounce!!! The reason for this is very simple. When you touch the main wheels down, the tail will lower, your angle of attack will increase and you will go back up in the air. This will continue until you are at the appropriate speed. What we want to do is make the landing once rather than getting current (bounce 5 times) every time we decide to land. Remember, we had just crossed the end of the runway decreasing speed out of 70 mph. At this time I pull back the throttle all the way and try to hold my KR inches off the runway. The more I concentrate on holding it off by inches the better landing I am able to make. I will glance, VERY quickly, at the airspeed indicator until it is below 60 mph and then I will continue to pull back on the stick concentrating on NOT touching down but instead maintaining the inch or two above the runway. When the stick is approximately one half the way back, we are now somewhere between 50 and 55 mph, I will let it then settle on the runway. Then I will raise the tail to decrease the lift and allow me to see over the nose. I have seen airspeeds, solo, as low as 40 mph before I actually touch the wheels down. I will continue to apply forward pressure on the stick keeping the nose up until I am almost to the limit. Next I will allow the tail to come back to the runway and then apply full back pressure on the stick to ensure the tail wheel stays on the ground as it takes over directional control from the rudder. If you are landing in a crosswind most experts agree you should wheel land the airplane and raise the tail to ensure the mains are securely on the ground. Ensure you apply the appropriate aileron going all the way to full. These controls of aileron and elevator must be managed as you complete your landing and as you taxi. You will learn how much of a crosswind component you and your KR are capable of over time and I recommend all early flights are with a crosswind component of less than 5 kts. I have found that the crosswind component I am capable of handling is more a function of my piloting ability (practice) than the airplane. If I follow my own procedures, I will make a good landing every time. However, I seem to make exceptions when concentration lapses. For example, if I lower the nose on final I will gain speed very quickly, usually to 100+ mph, and this makes the landing more difficult unless you are very good at using slips to decrease speed. Another point that should be made is that when flying with two people I will raise the speeds on final by 5+ mph compensating for the increase in weight and stall speed. What happens if I bounce? The first thing you have to decide is how bad of a bounce is it? I put bounces into three categories. First is BAD. If this is the case or if everything just doesn't seem right your only good option is to advance the throttle to full and go around. Don't worry about your ego just do it, GO AROUND. Second is a small bounce. If you come back up 6 inches to a foot, then don't over control, just re-land the plane. The reason for the small bounce was probably that you were going too fast when you let the airplane set down. The third bounce is in-between. The recovery from an in-between bounce will depend upon your skill level with your KR. If you have only been flying for 10 hours, you should probably go around. However, as your skills improve there is another option. To recover, apply approximately half throttle, stop the oscillation, and re-land the airplane. This only works if you stay in ground effect and remember you are very close to a stall so DON'T try this unless you are comfortable with your plane, your skills and you have a long enough runway. I certainly hope the information will prove helpful as you think about test flying your KR or are trying to improve your landings. If you can visualize and plan each phase of the landing process you will be able to make "perfect" landings. I am not a flight instructor and only present the information here in hopes you will not make the same mistakes I did in my early flights. If you would like to discuss these phases prior to flying your KR then give me a call. Perhaps we can improve this narrative for others. Good Landings Jim Faughn 4323D Laclede Ave St. Louis, MO 63108 314-652-7659 Cell 573-465-8039 - -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO (314) 652-7659 or (573) 465-8039 Ross Youngblood wrote: > > Mike, > Jim posted this to the KR-net some time ago. I don't think it > will be in the Lyris archive, but it could be in the archives maintained > by John Bouyea. If I recall it was titled somthing like "perfect > landings in a KR". > I think you can reach John's archives via the archive link at KR-net > (Let me know if this is wrong)... I don't believe they are searchable. > I could make a searchable CD-ROM if I had time, but I don't at the > moment. > The good news is that I'm cleaning up my house to prepare it for > sale, if I find it (I printed it out), I will post it again. > -- Regards > Ross > garbez wrote: > > > > Dear KR-net, > > I am trying to find an article written by Jim Faughn on the KR flight > > primer. I can't seem to find it in Mark Langford's web page. If anyone > > knows where I can find it or other flight testing articles please advise me > > where to look. > > > > Thanks, > > Mike Garbez N998MG > > msgtlg@netins.net > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: slstanton@netzero.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com -- ___________________________________ Scott & Leslie Stanton slstanton@netzero.net http://slstanton.homepage.com Smile :) 'Cause God loves you! ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:05:22 -0700 X-Message-Number: 35 On Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:30:33 -0400 "Wayne DeLisle Sr." writes: >At 08:13 PM 6/18/99 -0400, you wrote: >>Oscar Zuniga wrote: >>> >>> Jeff wrote: >>> >Most VW and smaller engines are >>> >using 5/16" (AN5) bolts for the prop bolts. >>> >>> OK, I show my ignorance again: I've seen reference to Grade 8 bolts for the >>> prop (and other locations). Yet I don't seem to find Grade 8 bolts in my >>> Wicks or AS&S catalog, but I do find "prop bolts". What are Gr8 and why do >>> I want them? I'm assuming they are higher strength? >> The collective thoughts of the KRnet adds up to good information. All valid points. You want the rolled threads of AN hardware as it is stronger. A Grade 8 bolt is stronger than an AN bolt (AN is Grade 5 if I remember right), but the Grade 8 bolt is more brittle. Also the AN hardware is plated (usually cadmium plating) and resists corrosion. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Da Gathering From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:20:16 -0700 X-Message-Number: 36 Tom Andersen wrote: > > Mike, > What mods do they need to make on that airframe to allow the higher power > and airspeeds? I have no idea as I never got in contact with the builder. I do know he can reach speeds of 230 mph. I would imagine everything is balanced. I think he welded up a 4130 sub frame that bolted to the main spar. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tap and die question From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:09:01 -0700 X-Message-Number: 37 Oscar, My tap and die set has a little sheet with the number and letter drill bit sizes for various taps. I don't have all the letter bits, and haven't had to tap anything on the plane, or I guess I'd have to run to Harbor Freight to get a bit in the A-Z range. If no-one posts I will try and remember to take a look and tell you what you need for 1/4 NPT tomorrow. -- ROss Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > OK, I guess here is where I show my ignorance. Let's say I want to thread a > hole to receive a 1/4" NF bolt. I don't just drill a 1/4" hole and then run > my tap in there? It seems that there are supposed to be "in between" number > and letter bits appropriate for that. > > Thanks > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:10:12 -0700 X-Message-Number: 38 Toby, Have your brother send his email address to me rossy@teleport.com, I'll fix him up. -- Ross Tobin Dunham wrote: > > Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > >OK, I show my ignorance again: I've seen reference to Grade 8 bolts for the > >prop (and other locations). Yet I don't seem to find Grade 8 bolts in my > >Wicks or AS&S catalog, but I do find "prop bolts". What are Gr8 and why do > >I want them? I'm assuming they are higher strength? > > Grade 8 is just another common grade of bolt material, like b7. We use it a > lot on our offshore gas compression equipment, mainly to anchor big > compressors (52,000lb) and other equipment (like the big 72,000lb Cat > engines). So that should give you a hint as to the strength and durability > of grade 8 bolts, especially for high-vibration and high-strength > requirements. My opinion, they are more than adequate for prop > applications. But they will rust if you don't buy them plated. I suggest > zinc chromate, but cadmium plating is acceptable. > > Toby Dunham > Houston, TX > > P.S. Who is responsible for adding new people to this list? My brother has > been trying to get on for 2 weeks now and hasn't been added. Should he > resubmit his request? Thanks... > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR Insurance From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:12:40 -0700 X-Message-Number: 39 Yo... Rick! Thanks for Scott "Sky" Smiths phone#. I forgot about the Tech Counselor visits. The guy I am trying to help out is the type of person who may have "skipped" getting all three of his tech counselor visits done, I will have to check. He is working with Scott and will have to get some low wing time, and perhaps more to be covered for flight. -- Ross EagleGator@aol.com wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I did some research a couple of years ago on insurance, and located a broker > who said he could get you insured in a KR, I believe he quoted something > around $300. I don't have my files here at work, so I can't recall the exact > details, but contact Scott Smith at (800) 743-1439. Tell him I sent you ;o) > > By the way, sorry for setting off the last KRNet food fight. I'm on the > digest, so I didn't see the complete onslaught until yesterday afternoon. My > Porsche engine post was targeted at the folks who have the expertise on the > engine (yes, it is an aero conversion). I'll be sure to include more detail > in the future so that everyone will understand what I'm talking about > (including me?). In the future, if anyone has a gripe with something I post, > please email me directly and I'll remedy the situation as best I am able to. > Sorry for the confusion. And thanks very much to all who replied with > valuable info -- as always, KRNet proved itself as the valuable resource we > all know that it is. > > Cheers, > Rick Junkin > EagleGator@aol.com > St. Charles MO > KR-2S N415RJ 37% complete, progressing rapidly! > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Prop bolts...and 'Vairs From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:13:41 -0700 X-Message-Number: 40 I know grade "8" bolts are stronger than normal "carriage" type bolts, but I thought that the tensile strength of a prop bolt was higher. Anyone know? -- Regards Ross Richard Parker wrote: > > FYI, > > If you run short, most of you guys can get grade 8's at your local hardware > store. They wont carry as many sizes though as Wicks. > > Rich Parker > > >From: Oscar Zuniga > >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" > >To: "KR-net users group" > >Subject: [kr-net] Prop bolts...and 'Vairs > >Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:26:22 PDT > > > >Jeff wrote: > >>Most VW and smaller engines are > >>using 5/16" (AN5) bolts for the prop bolts. > > > >OK, I show my ignorance again: I've seen reference to Grade 8 bolts for the > >prop (and other locations). Yet I don't seem to find Grade 8 bolts in my > >Wicks or AS&S catalog, but I do find "prop bolts". What are Gr8 and why do > >I want them? I'm assuming they are higher strength? > > > >Also...since it's Friday...for you 'Vair heads who can't get in touch with > >William Wynne to order or inquire about his manual for converting the > >Corvair for aircraft use, the manual is available through Corvair > >Underground for $49.95 (Wynne charges $49). It's at > >http://www.corvairunderground.com; I got the Corvair Underground catalog if > >anybody is interested, and will be ordering the conversion manual next > >week. > > This week was the Corvair Society of America convention at Lake Tahoe, so > >nobody was in the office, but I will be talking with Lon Wall (the owner) > >next week about their shop, which works exclusively on Corvairs. I might > >be > >talked into loaning the manual out after I get to look at it, if you send > >Ross $10 to keep him in chemicals for his hot tub. We all know that's what > >he really uses the $$ for. ;o) > > > >Oscar Zuniga > >Medford, Oregon > >website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ > >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE:Tank sealing From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:14:45 -0700 X-Message-Number: 41 I second this... I bought Randolphs Sloshing sealer, but never used it as I had read some reports of the stuff flaking off the inside of glass tanks. I decided to open her up and use flox. -- Ross Richard Parker wrote: > > Sloshing compounds should be approached with caution especially if they are > designed for metal or rubber tanks. Its no big deal if it deteriorates on > your Harley, but climbing out of a tough feild and having your fuel system > plug up is another story. > > I'd stay away from them in airplane use. > > Rich Parker > > >From: "cmidkiff" > >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" > >To: "KR-net users group" > >Subject: [kr-net] Re: Tank sealing > >Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:18:12 -0700 > > > >I've used the product also to seal up motorcycle tanks. With metal tanks > >they recommend using an etching chemical first, then the sealant. The > >sealant I used on the motorcycle was called a sloshing compound. You can > >also find this tank sealant in old vintage car restoration shops, which is > >where I bought it the last time. > > > >Bud Midkiff KR2 (Stretched 15" & all wood work finished) > >Lynnwood, WA > >cmidkiff@gte.net > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Tobin Dunham > >To: KR-net users group > >Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 7:38 AM > >Subject: [kr-net] Tank sealing > > > > > > > Ok, I'm not trying to reply to every single message, but I want to throw > > > this out. Someone asked about what to use to seal a tank (sorry, I > >deleted > > > it before I caught the name). > > > > > > Just an idea - a couple years ago I developed a leak in one of my Harley > > > Davidson fuel tanks. The motorcycle shops carry a good product that I > >can't > > > remember the name of. It's a thick, white goo that you put in the tank > >and > > > roll the tank around to coat the inside. Works great for motorcycles, > >but > > > might not be as easy to roll an airplane around :o) If you can get to > >it > > > easily, it's a good cheap way to go. > > > > > > Toby Dunham > > > Houston, TX > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cmidkiff@gte.net > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Porsche engine From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:17:03 -0700 X-Message-Number: 42 I thought I'd also add that Mooney used to offer a turbo Porsche engine for a while, but they dropped production, I think low demand, and tricky problems. -- Ross Juergen Esser wrote: > > Hi guys. > Sometimes it seems you booked all the mankinds knowlegde. Or you have to > much time during the day. > The Porsche engine was a new design from Porsche 25 years ago. It was > designed as an aircraft engine with integrated redrive. C172īs and 182īs > were converted to these engines with moderate results. The engine has had to > many parts and was to difficult design to compete with this havy metal from > oversea. At least Porsche stopped production of engines and parts, so the > last few engines are running out. > I think it is not possible to put this engine into a KR because it has > between 150-200 hp, but the question was not that stupid as it seemed to > you. > > Juergen Esser, Germany > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fw: CARB QUESTIONS From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:23:58 -0700 X-Message-Number: 43 Mike, Be real cautious about that carb problem. Try to get it nailed before you go too far and find yourself with no power 300' off the field. Here are some questions that come to mind: 1) Are you using a fuel pump or gravity feed? 2) What type of intake manifold setup are you using? I know the Ellison likes a plenum chamber behind the carb I guess for fuel mix, and they talk a lot about this for the Ellison, perhaps your intake manifold could be contributing. 3) What type of ignition and ignition timing are you using? (Thinking about ignition advance 009 vs magneto) 4) What gap on your spark plugs are you using? I don't have any answers, and I thought the Revflow was a decent carb, but I'm hoping these questions will help someone else give you a good answer. Also Steve might be out there lurking, or you could give him a call. -- Regards Ross garbez wrote: > > Dear KRnet, > This is to all you guys that fly VW engines in your KR's. Please respond to > this. > > I am having trouble with carbs and fuel mixture. Right now I'm running a > Revflow carb, it's like a Posa. It has no low end adjustment. Fuel flow is > controled by the needle and mixture addjustment. The engine will only run > at full rich at full throttle and full lean at lower throttle settings, you > have to adjust both throttle and mixture at the same time. I was told that > the engine should run full rich at all throttle settings. Well not true. I > called Revflow and told them my problem and they made me two more needles , > but neither of them worked. Looking the carb over it seems the needles just > regulate the flow of fuel. So I put a secondary ignition system in it > thinking I would get a better fuel burn, it helped a little but did not > solve the problem. What's the deal here is something wrong with the bosch > plugs that Steve sells that I'am using or is something wrong with the > engine? Or is Revflow a piece of trash? > > Also flight report N998MG has left the runway surface today, but I set it > back down because of carb problem. My airspeed indicator said I was going > 80 MPH, the plane felt like it was glued to the runway, maybe more back > pressure is needed? What should my take off speed be in a 700 lbs. airplane > with an 1835 VW engine, tri gear plus fuel and a 180 lbs. of me? > > Thanks again > Mike Garbez N998MG > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Still reading only From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:30:46 -0700 X-Message-Number: 44 Rod, I swear, when I looked the other night you were not in the list... Welcome back.... -- Ross Rod Kelso wrote: > > ---------- > > From: Rod Kelso > > To: [kr-net] > > Subject: Unsubscribe????????????????????????????NOT > > Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 9:35 PM > > > > Nope, Rod is still here!! > > > > BUT he has promised himself and all the kr-net group that he will sit in > > the corner on his hands and away from the keyboard and just read, and > make > > no comments either good, bad, or ugly. > > > > Rod Kelso > > Denver..............................................:o) > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com