From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 1999 12:12 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: June 19, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Saturday, June 19, 1999. 1. KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 2. KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 3. Tip tanks 4. Re: redrives and prop RPM 5. Revflow/POSA tuning 6. Re: Revflow/POSA tuning 7. Hey, What About Thrust? 8. Wasserboxers 9. Re: Wasserboxers 10. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 11. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 12. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 13. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 14. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 15. Re: Revflow/POSA tuning 16. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 17. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 18. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 19. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 20. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 21. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 22. Progress 23. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 24. kr1 plans 25. Re: Da Gathering 26. Re: Fw: CARB QUESTIONS 27. Wankel Rotary 28. Re: Da Gathering 29. Buying car engines for $10k is stupid! 30. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 31. Re: Tap and die question 32. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 33. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 34. Re: Revflow/POSA tuning 35. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License 36. Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: jandd@maverickbbs.com Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 3:30:1 X-Message-Number: 1 Hello, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: jandd@maverickbbs.com Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 3:38:59 X-Message-Number: 2 Hello, my name is John Weikel and I live in Kerrville, TX. I am new to the KR list so please excuse my fits and starts while I get into this thing. I have a KR-2S in boat stage and am on hold due to having had a heart attack. I have regained my medical certigication but must have approx $1600 of medical test annually to keep it current. Since I am retired, this has priced me out of the air. The proposed Sport Pilot License with self certification appears to be a way to get back in the air. My concern is that the KR-2S performance will not fall within the proposed limits. The max weight of 1200 seems do-able it's the stall speed of 39 kts that I am worried about. I would be interested in any anformation anyone might offer pertaining to how to get that stall speed within the proposed limits. I would like to get back to building but would hate to put the time, effort and money into a plane I wouldn't be able to legally fly. Any comments you might have would be appreciated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Tip tanks From: "John Martindale" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 3:44:41 X-Message-Number: 3 Hi folks Another thing on tip tanks....don't forget your fuel pump has to be able to lift fuel that extra distance in a turn. Some aircraft manufacturers limit the angle of bank for this reason when running on tips. See Ya John. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: redrives and prop RPM From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:10:47 -0400 X-Message-Number: 4 Eduardo, The 1800cc Subaru EA-81 is capable of producing 112hp at 5600rpm with a little cleanup work in the heads and a few changes on the camshaft. The reduction drive is used because propellors cannot be run at that rpm. So the reduction drive allows an auto engine to run in it's power band, while keeping the propellor at an appropriate rpm. The fellow I had responded to, Carlton Blandford, used a water-cooled VW with a redrive rather than the Subaru. Evidently, this variation of the VW exists in other parts of the world. The Subaru is very popular here because they were used in the snowy northeast US in the 1980's and now they can be gotten for peanuts, I got mine for $75. -Tom -----Original Message----- From: Eduardo Iglesias To: KR-net users group Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 8:52 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: redrives and prop RPM >Dear Tom >I have a special interests with respect to motors, especially to the Subaru. >I reed in your mail that one can obtain 112 Hp with the appropriate >reduction. Wich motor is it, 1600, 1800? >How it is that the reduction can allow you to absorb bigger power? >When you say VW watercooled, do you refer to the Subaru, or does some >modification of the VW exist? >Thanks >Eduardo > >-----Mensaje original----- >De: Tom Andersen >Para: KR-net users group >Fecha: Jueves, 17 de Junio de 1999 09:04 a.m. >Asunto: [kr-net] Re: redrives and prop RPM > > > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomkr2s@t-three.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Revflow/POSA tuning From: Oscar Zuniga Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 05:41:09 PDT X-Message-Number: 5 Garbez: Don't give up on your carb. It's a simple piece of hardware, and has worked well in many engines. I don't have one and I'm not sure how close a cousin it is to the POSA, but if it's as similar as I think it is, maybe you can view the "How To Tune The POSA" video by Rex Taylor. It takes about 45 minutes, but get a bowl of ice cream and sit down to watch it. The operating principle is thoroughly gone through, as well as a step-by-step process for tuning the carb at idle, midrange, and top end. Complete with test stand running showing all the above. Also complete with a hop around the pattern in a Dragonfly demonstrating the performance. It's very clear and will give you confidence in how to make it work right. I have Paul Martin's personal copy, but if you're interested I could have a copy made to have as a KRNet resource, and could send it to you first. The operating principle on these carbs is just different from conventional float carbs, so you have to think a bit differently. Paul has modified the needle profile on his POSA according to methods posted here on the Net, and gets good operation from his. As I remember, the nose of Paul's trigear KR-2 gets light at 40 MPH, and a little back stick at that speed will put it on the tail with two up and an almost empty header tank. If yours feels like it's got concrete under the cowling at 80, something ain't right! Oscar "Don't know nothin'" Zuniga Medford, Oregon website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Revflow/POSA tuning From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:09:04 -0400 X-Message-Number: 6 does any one have a comy of "HOW TO ADJUST A POSA CARB?" for sale. Rex Taylor I lost contact of where to reach him. R. W. Moore ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: KR-net users group Sent: Saturday, June 19, 1999 8:41 AM Subject: [kr-net] Revflow/POSA tuning > Garbez: > > Don't give up on your carb. It's a simple piece of hardware, an d has worked > well in many engines. I don't have one and I'm not sure how close a cousin > it is to the POSA, but if it's as similar as I think it is, maybe you can > view the "How To Tune The POSA" video by Rex Taylor. It takes about 45 > minutes, but get a bowl of ice cream and sit down to watch it. The > operating principle is thoroughly gone through, as well as a step-by-step > process for tuning the carb at idle, midrange, and top end. Complete with > test stand running showing all the above. Also complete with a hop around > the pattern in a Dragonfly demonstrating the performance. It's very clear > and will give you confidence in how to make it work right. > > I have Paul Martin's personal copy, but if you're interested I could have a > copy made to have as a KRNet resource, and could send it to you first. The > operating principle on these carbs is just different from conventional float > carbs, so you have to think a bit differently. Paul has modified the needle > profile on his POSA according to methods posted here on the Net, and gets > good operation from his. As I remember, the nose of Paul's trigear KR-2 > gets light at 40 MPH, and a little back stick at that speed will put it on > the tail with two up and an almost empty header tank. If yours feels like > it's got concrete under the cowling at 80, something ain't right! > > Oscar "Don't know nothin'" Zuniga > Medford, Oregon > website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Hey, What About Thrust? From: "Walter Lounsbery" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:40:40 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 I have been following the thread on propellers, torque, and horsepower. It is a difficult subject. Maybe because torque involves units of length (feet sometimes) and force (pounds), and so does work. However, torque can be produced statically (the force does not have to be applied over a distance), while power is force applied over a distance. Am I clearing up anything here? Works better with a blackboard... Anyway, maybe the discussion should also include thrust. It is important to get a good match of the engine RPM, HP, torque, and prop, but the airframe only knows thrust. If you approach the problem from the standpoint of required thrust at a speed (required horsepower), figure about 85% efficiency from the prop, get your engine power characteristics, you can figure out where the airplane will fly with your engine. As a byproduct, you will have engine RPM from the engine charts, therefore some idea of the prop pitch (knowing speed). After this is done, it is a simple matter to design the prop. On the other hand, one can start with the KR-Net and get a much better solution from someone that has experience :-) I think I will go clean the blackboard now... Walter Lounsbery POB 54266 Hurst, TX 76054 (817) 285-8520 Walt@Lounsbery.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Wasserboxers From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:35:33 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 >Carlton Blandford, used a water-cooled VW > with a redrive rather than the Subaru. Evidently, this variation of the VW > exists in other parts of the world. I don't know what Calton is using but the "Wasserboxer" watercooled mutation of the Type 4 was common in VW Vanagons, which were sold worldwide, including the US. I'm not sure that reliability was their strong suit, but that's probably because (like other VW vans) it's a low horsepower engine put in a VERY demanding situation, and driven hard by folks who only feed them fuel and oil. That's not to say that they might not make a dandy aircraft engine, as long as maintenance isn't neglected, but I've never seen it done (yet)... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wasserboxers From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:17:12 -0700 X-Message-Number: 9 Mark Langford wrote: > > I don't know what Calton is using but the "Wasserboxer" watercooled mutation > of the Type 4 was common in VW Vanagons, which were sold worldwide, > including the US.>>>. There was a time when I considered using the inline water cooled VW and during the research stage I was surprised to find there were quite a few installed in airplanes around the world. Performance reports were good and I believe this engine makes a good honest 110 hp at 5500 rpm. They come in 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 liters. Some of the 1.8s that were built for the GTi in the 80s made a bit more than 110 hp. Fitting an inline engine on a "built to plans" KR was looking like a tough problem so I decided to save that engine idea for another day. Probably the biggest reason I chose the inline VW is the fact that I live in VW hotrod heaven. There are no less than 15 companies locally (within 10 miles) that build really cool parts for the inline and air cooled VWs. Secondly is the fact that between me and my wife we have owned about 10 of these little buggers and have never had a problem with them. The 1.8 liter model can make 130 to 140 hp reliably with about $1500 worth of cool parts (head, cam, etc. (no turbo)). That's not bad for a motor that weighs just a little under 200 pounds. If you wanted to go turbo your looking at a reliable 160hp. These engines are extremely tough as they were adapted (the bottom ends) from existing diesel engines (from what I understand anyway). They have a main cap between each cylinder and the rest of the bottom end is VERY overbuilt. There was someone who installed a 1.8 (stock) on a J3 cub and the climb performance almost doubled over the C-65. Oh well that dream is for another day! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:22:52 -0700 X-Message-Number: 10 jandd@maverickbbs.com wrote: > The max weight of 1200 seems do-able it's the stall speed of 39 kts that I am > worried about. >>>> Boy if there ever was a place and time for a motor glider version of the KR2S its now and here in the US! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: "John Weikel" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:32:55 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 Isn't that the truth? I was thinking in terms of no electrical system, cowl tank only, day VFR and maybe a 1 ft wing extension. Sure hate to abandon the project at this stage. Any opinions from anyone? John W Kerrville, Tx KR-2S on hold -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 9:22 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License >jandd@maverickbbs.com wrote: >> > The max weight of 1200 seems do-able it's the stall speed of 39 kts >that I am >> worried about. >>>> > >Boy if there ever was a place and time for a motor glider version of the >KR2S its now and here in the US! > > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >Filling and Sanding again! >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >http://members.home.com/mikemims/ >Aliso Viejo CA >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:36:18 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 Mike Mims wrote: > > Boy if there ever was a place and time for a motor glider version of the > KR2S its now and here in the US! > I didn't finish! So why don't some of us Spar Heads and Airfoil Freaks get together and draw up some plans for installation of a 30 foot wing on a KR2S? All we really need to do is the math for spar caps and the airfoil selection could be left of to the builder. We all seem to have gotten caught up in the going fast, how about settling on a top speed of 120 to 130 mph and a stall speed of 40 mph for the "Sport Pilots"? KRNet is more than up to the task! Would the stock WAFs work? How big would the spar caps need to be for 1200 gross plane with that wing span? I think the best approach would design something that would almost bolt right up to a plans built bird. No fancy spoilers, flaps, ailerons, etc. What do you guys think? -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: "John Weikel" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:44:55 -0500 X-Message-Number: 13 I see that Europa has done just that. I don't have the technical background to do the design work. The Deil wing skins extend past the spars a ways it seems that a short spar entension to get another foot on each wing would get a really light plane close to the 39 kt stall speed. John W Kerrville, Tx KR-2S on hold -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 9:36 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License >Mike Mims wrote: > >> >> Boy if there ever was a place and time for a motor glider version of the >> KR2S its now and here in the US! >> > >I didn't finish! So why don't some of us Spar Heads and Airfoil Freaks >get together and draw up some plans for installation of a 30 foot wing >on a KR2S? All we really need to do is the math for spar caps and the >airfoil selection could be left of to the builder. We all seem to have >gotten caught up in the going fast, how about settling on a top speed of >120 to 130 mph and a stall speed of 40 mph for the "Sport Pilots"? >KRNet is more than up to the task! Would the stock WAFs work? How big >would the spar caps need to be for 1200 gross plane with that wing >span? I think the best approach would design something that would >almost bolt right up to a plans built bird. No fancy spoilers, flaps, >ailerons, etc. What do you guys think? > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >Filling and Sanding again! >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >http://members.home.com/mikemims/ >Aliso Viejo CA >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jandd@maverickbbs.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:43:38 -0500 X-Message-Number: 14 I think you're gonna need real flaps to get down to 40 mph stall. Maybe connected directly to the aft spar like mine. My flaps are 5 times larger than stock. I'll go fast AND land slow, thank you very much. I've done a mini web page update at the bottom of http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kmarkl.html that shows my large flaps and ailerons (well, ailerons have same area, different shape, but larger moment arm, for more effectiveness). Were I to do it again, I'd put the dihedral in the middle of the main spar, using Dr Dean's steam/laminiation method of bending it while under contruction. That eliminates the jog between center main spar and outer spar, and would allow flaps to be continuous from fuselage to mid span of the outer wing. Now THAT would be some flaps. But if you lighten it up and lower the wing loading, you should be able to stall at 39 mph, I'd think. Just looking at the spars, I'd guess that you could add several feet by simply continuing the taper. I'd do that even if I were building a stock KR2S, rather than the hoaky foam/glass spar extension. That's probably done by RR to simplify parts sharing between KR2 and KR2S (and because somebody did it and it worked!). The outer ends of the spars look like they're quite capable of doing a lot more than they need to right now, probably as construction compromise. Personally I tapered my main spar down (internally) a bit more on the outer end. Steve Eberhart's working on something like this Sport Pilot KR thing. Maybe he'll come up with something. Lowering the wing loading will give you a bumpier ride in turbulent weather, but I guess it beats not being able to fly at all. And since flying with Troy in his Champ, I've become a believer in low and slow! Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Revflow/POSA tuning From: Warron Gray Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:37:49 -0400 X-Message-Number: 15 In case any one is interested the edelbrock QuickSilver 2 is in the same family as the posa and revflow just a updated version from the same designer but with floats simple adjustments too ,Warron ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:30:46 -0700 X-Message-Number: 16 Mark Langford wrote: > > Were I to do it again, I'd put the dihedral in the middle of the main spar, > using Dr Dean's steam/laminiation method of bending it while under > contruction. That eliminates the jog between center main spar and outer > spar, and would allow flaps to be continuous from fuselage to mid span of > the outer wing. Now THAT would be some flaps. > I thought a lot about this for the next project myself. What about just making the center section spars a few inches longer than the fuselage itself? The WAFs could be located just outside the wing root. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:14:36 -0500 X-Message-Number: 17 > I thought a lot about this for the next project myself. What about just > making the center section spars a few inches longer than the fuselage > itself? The WAFs could be located just outside the wing root. You could probably do that if you were careful to make sure the WAFs and bolted joints were up to the job. But since that's the most highly stressed place in the spar, it'd be a lot safer to just leave it where it is. I guess the ultimate would be to laminate the spar continuously from end to end as one piece, and getting all the dihedral in the fuselage. Now THAT would be the ticket, if you didn't ever have to take the wings off... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: David Moore Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:55:43 -0700 X-Message-Number: 18 Mike, Now you might be on to something, Ken Rand had this in mind when he retrofitted the KR1 with long wings to create the KR1B motor glider. It was only 27 ft. if I remember right. But he did advise against using it on the KR2. How hard would it be to redesign the spar cap for a long wing KR2s? Europa has just come out with a long winged motor glider (42 ft.). Dave Moore >I didn't finish! So why don't some of us Spar Heads and Airfoil Freaks >get together and draw up some plans for installation of a 30 foot wing >on a KR2S? All we really need to do is the math for spar caps and the >airfoil selection could be left of to the builder. We all seem to have >gotten caught up in the going fast, how about settling on a top speed of >120 to 130 mph and a stall speed of 40 mph for the "Sport Pilots"? >KRNet is more than up to the task! Would the stock WAFs work? How big >would the spar caps need to be for 1200 gross plane with that wing >span? I think the best approach would design something that would >almost bolt right up to a plans built bird. No fancy spoilers, flaps, >ailerons, etc. What do you guys think? > >-- >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >Micheal Mims >Filling and Sanding again! >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >http://members.home.com/mikemims/ >Aliso Viejo CA >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: dgmoore1@gte.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > David Moore mailto:dgmoore1@gte.net Henderson, Nevada ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: rahuman@swbell.net Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:18:58 -0700 X-Message-Number: 19 David Moore wrote: > > Mike, > Now you might be on to something, Ken Rand had this in mind when he > retrofitted the KR1 with long wings to create the KR1B motor glider. It was > only 27 ft. if I remember right. But he did advise against using it on the > KR2. > How hard would it be to redesign the spar cap for a long wing KR2s? > > Europa has just come out with a long winged motor glider (42 ft.). > > Dave Moore > > >I didn't finish! So why don't some of us Spar Heads and Airfoil Freaks > >get together and draw up some plans for installation of a 30 foot wing > >on a KR2S? All we really need to do is the math for spar caps and the > >airfoil selection could be left of to the builder. We all seem to have > >gotten caught up in the going fast, how about settling on a top speed of > >120 to 130 mph and a stall speed of 40 mph for the "Sport Pilots"? > >KRNet is more than up to the task! Would the stock WAFs work? How big > >would the spar caps need to be for 1200 gross plane with that wing > >span? I think the best approach would design something that would > >almost bolt right up to a plans built bird. No fancy spoilers, flaps, > >ailerons, etc. What do you guys think? > > > >-- > >zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > >Micheal Mims > >Filling and Sanding again! > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > >http://members.home.com/mikemims/ > >Aliso Viejo CA > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: dgmoore1@gte.net > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > > David Moore > mailto:dgmoore1@gte.net > Henderson, Nevada > > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rahuman@swbell.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com All this sounds great to me - something that has been running around in my head for awhile - but from my reading on what the Europa folks when through it's more than just lengthing the wing span - they had to carefully match the airfoil to be able to use the original tail. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: Tobin Dunham Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:20:46 PDT X-Message-Number: 20 Well, John, did you catch the discussion on the vortex generators last week? I'm not familiar with them, but they might help as well. At least, that's what the advertisements suggest.... As far as the motorglider idea goes, if you guys are going to design something like that, I'd like to see it as a bolt-on to the stock KR wings. That way, any one of us could build the extra set of wings and have a motorglider, instead of having to build a whole new bird. Toby Dunham Houston, TX > >> Boy if there ever was a place and time for a motor glider version of >the > >> KR2S its now and here in the US! > >> > > > >I didn't finish! So why don't some of us Spar Heads and Airfoil Freaks > >get together and draw up some plans for installation of a 30 foot wing > >on a KR2S? All we really need to do is the math for spar caps and the > >airfoil selection could be left of to the builder. We all seem to have > >gotten caught up in the going fast, how about settling on a top speed of > >120 to 130 mph and a stall speed of 40 mph for the "Sport Pilots"? > >KRNet is more than up to the task! Would the stock WAFs work? How big > >would the spar caps need to be for 1200 gross plane with that wing > >span? I think the best approach would design something that would > >almost bolt right up to a plans built bird. No fancy spoilers, flaps, > >ailerons, etc. What do you guys think? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:51:22 -0700 X-Message-Number: 21 Tobin Dunham wrote: > As far as the motorglider idea goes, if you guys are going to design > something like that, I'd like to see it as a bolt-on to the stock KR wings. > That way, any one of us could build the extra set of wings and have a > motorglider, instead of having to build a whole new bird. > I don't think this is possible because the stock center section main spar might not be up to the task. I think this is oe of those choices you would have to make, do I want a 130 mph motor glider or do I want a 180 mph KR? Why would you want both? -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Progress From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:53:53 -0700 X-Message-Number: 22 Just got back from the hanger. I spent the morning mixing and applying SuperFil to the top of the right wing. I mixed up a total of 1.3 gallons! Anyway the right wing will be ready to sand tomorrow. I am gonna jump over to Poly Fibers home page and order some smooth prime! Wont be long I will have a white airplane in my hanger. Woo Hoo! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: "John Weikel" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 17:57:38 -0500 X-Message-Number: 23 Toby, I didn'r see the vortex generator discussion since I just joined the group. I too would like to have an alternate wing to meet the Sport Pilot requirement. What part of Houston do you live in? I was born there and lived most of my life there. I lived near Tomball for the last 18 years I was there. After retirement, I moved to Kerrville and started feeding deer. John W -----Original Message----- From: Tobin Dunham To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 4:20 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License >Well, John, did you catch the discussion on the vortex generators last week? > I'm not familiar with them, but they might help as well. At least, that's >what the advertisements suggest.... > >As far as the motorglider idea goes, if you guys are going to design >something like that, I'd like to see it as a bolt-on to the stock KR wings. >That way, any one of us could build the extra set of wings and have a >motorglider, instead of having to build a whole new bird. > >Toby Dunham >Houston, TX > > >> >> Boy if there ever was a place and time for a motor glider version of >>the >> >> KR2S its now and here in the US! >> >> >> > >> >I didn't finish! So why don't some of us Spar Heads and Airfoil Freaks >> >get together and draw up some plans for installation of a 30 foot wing >> >on a KR2S? All we really need to do is the math for spar caps and the >> >airfoil selection could be left of to the builder. We all seem to have >> >gotten caught up in the going fast, how about settling on a top speed of >> >120 to 130 mph and a stall speed of 40 mph for the "Sport Pilots"? >> >KRNet is more than up to the task! Would the stock WAFs work? How big >> >would the spar caps need to be for 1200 gross plane with that wing >> >span? I think the best approach would design something that would >> >almost bolt right up to a plans built bird. No fancy spoilers, flaps, >> >ailerons, etc. What do you guys think? > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jandd@maverickbbs.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: kr1 plans From: "Bob Whisenant" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 17:8:4 X-Message-Number: 24 I recently ran across melvin Boggs super kr1 for sale.The craftsmanship was impressive.The gentleman had a hard landing and damaged the man spar.so i inspected for other damage and could not find none.so i got the plane practicly given to me.I am repacing main spar.The only problem i have is he had no plans or instructions.If anyone has set used or unused and would sale for a reasonable price. please contact me bpc@lcc.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Da Gathering From: Bobby Muse Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:10:36 -0500 X-Message-Number: 25 At 10:00 PM 06/17/1999 -0400, you wrote: > We will be seeing >some very interesting KR engines in the next few years. The 0-290 has got >to be the biggest engine ever used on a KR, and it seems only 1 in 3 new KR >builders is considering a VW. >-Tom > You know, VW powered KRs have won the top positions in every Sun'N'Fun race under 100HP that they have ever raced in. Just look at the trophys that Troy, my Dad and myself have. Show me a more reliable engine/prop combo for the money and I will make the change. KISS. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Fw: CARB QUESTIONS From: Bobby Muse Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:28:58 -0500 X-Message-Number: 26 At 05:32 PM 06/18/1999 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Dear KRnet, >This is to all you guys that fly VW engines in your KR's. Please respond to >this. > >I am having trouble with carbs and fuel mixture. Right now I'm running a >Revflow carb, it's like a Posa. It has no low end adjustment. Fuel flow is >controled by the needle and mixture addjustment. The engine will only run >at full rich at full throttle and full lean at lower throttle settings, you >have to adjust both throttle and mixture at the same time. I was told that >the engine should run full rich at all throttle settings. Well not true. I >called Revflow and told them my problem and they made me two more needles , >but neither of them worked. Looking the carb over it seems the needles just >regulate the flow of fuel. So I put a secondary ignition system in it >thinking I would get a better fuel burn, it helped a little but did not >solve the problem. What's the deal here is something wrong with the bosch >plugs that Steve sells that I'am using or is something wrong with the >engine? Or is Revflow a piece of trash? > >Also flight report N998MG has left the runway surface today, but I set it >back down because of carb problem. My airspeed indicator said I was going >80 MPH, the plane felt like it was glued to the runway, maybe more back >pressure is needed? What should my take off speed be in a 700 lbs. airplane >with an 1835 VW engine, tri gear plus fuel and a 180 lbs. of me? > >Thanks again >Mike Garbez N998MG > > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: bmuse@mindspring.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > Mike, I don't have a Revflow Carb but I do use a Posa, which I heard uses the same type needles and is considered a fuel flow regulator not a carb. My Posa works great and I haven't adjusted it in four years. Don Carke is flying with a Revflow carb with mixed results. I believe the Revflow carb, once you get it justed, will be a good one. Also get a copy of Jim Faughn's posting of "How To Adjust A Posa". It may help. I wish I had a copy to send you. Bobby Muse mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com Wimberly, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Wankel Rotary From: Scott Stanton Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:06:58 -0400 X-Message-Number: 27 I think I remember someone saying something about a wankel rotary not being made in a size to fit KR2 type craft. I found one on the web at Atkins Rotary. Here are the specs: 101# with reduction 75 hp @ 6000 rpm twin rotor, liquid cooled. Here is the kicker - about $8900. I think I'll stick with something cheaper. Scott Stanton Orlando Fl -- ___________________________________ Scott & Leslie Stanton slstanton@netzero.net http://slstanton.homepage.com Smile :) 'Cause God loves you! ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Da Gathering From: "Tom Andersen" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:59:57 -0400 X-Message-Number: 28 I think you probably won't see the turbo Soob KR's in the under 100hp class, they'll have to race in the forced induction class against the turbo Lancair IV's with three hundred horsepower, unless they come up with a Turbo Tinkerbell class. I can't understand why they won't let turbo powerd aircraft race together with NA engines, HP is HP, just match the output numbers regardless how it makes the power, right? Unless the turbo aircraft has some kind of mystical advantage. Some guys hop up an 0-200 to get 125hp, are these still rated as 100hp? Most sources are placing the output of a DDTS at under 100hp. Come to think of it, RM in N133RM used a turbo VW to win SF100 one year so maybe the turbo won't be an issue. MIFS. -Tom -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Muse To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 8:15 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Da Gathering >At 10:00 PM 06/17/1999 -0400, you wrote: >> We will be seeing >>some very interesting KR engines in the next few years. The 0-290 has got >>to be the biggest engine ever used on a KR, and it seems only 1 in 3 new KR >>builders is considering a VW. >>-Tom >> > > >You know, VW powered KRs have won the top positions in every Sun'N'Fun race >under 100HP that they have ever raced in. Just look at the trophys that >Troy, my Dad and myself have. > >Show me a more reliable engine/prop combo for the money and I will make the >change. KISS. > > > Bobby Muse > mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com > Wimberly, TX > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: tomkr2s@t-three.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Buying car engines for $10k is stupid! From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:03:21 -0700 X-Message-Number: 29 Scott Stanton wrote: > > 101# with reduction > 75 hp @ 6000 rpm > > twin rotor, liquid cooled. > > Here is the kicker - about $8900. > These companies that try (and sometimes do) to sell a automotive conversion (car engine) for the price of a rebuilt certified engine kill me! What the h@ll are they thinking? Don't they realize a rebuilt O-200 (or better yet one with 1000 hrs on it) cost about the same and will provide you with almost 2000 hours of 100 hp doing the job it was designed to do? Selling car engines for upwards of $15k is just plain psychotic! Most KRs up until a few years ago were completed for less than what these jokers are trying to sell their car engines for, hell for that matter the whole damn car didn't cost that much when it was new! Hey why don't we all just run out and buy new Subaru Legacys and rip the engines out and put them in our $4000 airframes? OK Im done now! :o) -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:13:11 -0700 X-Message-Number: 30 On Sat, 19 Jun 1999 3:38:59 jandd@maverickbbs.com writes: >Hello, my name is John Weikel and I live in Kerrville, TX. I am new to the >KR list so please excuse my fits and starts while I get into this thing. I >have a KR-2S in boat stage and am on hold due to having had a heart attack. > I have regained my medical certigication but must have approx $1600 of >medical test annually to keep it current. Since I am retired, this has >priced me out of the air. The proposed Sport Pilot License with self > >certification appears to be a way to get back in the air. My concern is >that the KR-2S performance will not fall within the proposed limits. The >max weight of 1200 seems do-able it's the stall speed of 39 kts that I am >worried about. I would be interested in any anformation anyone might offer >pertaining to how to get that stall speed within the proposed limits. I >would like to get back to building but would hate to put the time, effort >and money into a plane I wouldn't be able to legally fly. Any comments you >might have would be appreciated. > I think this can be done. The goal here is 39 kts, which translates roughly to around 45 mph. My KR-2S with the RAF 48 airfoil Diehl wings and NO flaps usually doesn't break into a full stall until I'm down around 42 mph. That was flying at 1125 lbs gross. Much below 50 and it gets pretty mushy and it starts to buffet at around 45. Before we get off into a discussion about airspeed indicator calibration at low speeds, I will say that I believe my indicator is reasonably accurate. The point here is that with a small amount of design work of adding real flaps and possibly an aerodynamicly activated leading edge slat (very simple mechanism) it shouldn't be hard to make a KR with outstanding STOL performance and a stall speed down around 35 mph, but still preserve the high speed performance. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tap and die question From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:39:00 -0700 X-Message-Number: 31 Actually, most taps have the required dirll number listed on the side of the shank. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm On Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:09:01 -0700 Ross Youngblood writes: >Oscar, > My tap and die set has a little sheet with the number and letter >drill bit sizes for various taps. I don't have all the letter bits, >and haven't had to tap anything on the plane, or I guess I'd have >to run to Harbor Freight to get a bit in the A-Z range. > If no-one posts I will try and remember to take a look and tell >you what you need for 1/4 NPT tomorrow. > > -- ROss > >Oscar Zuniga wrote: >> >> OK, I guess here is where I show my ignorance. Let's say I want to thread a >> hole to receive a 1/4" NF bolt. I don't just drill a 1/4" hole and then run >> my tap in there? It seems that there are supposed to be "in between" number >> and letter bits appropriate for that. >> >> Thanks >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> website at http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/5610/ >> ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: "JEAN" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:45:30 -0500 X-Message-Number: 32 See what your 30 ft. wings will do to the aerodynamic center!!!! Jean N4DD -----Original Message----- From: David Moore To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 1:51 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License >Mike, >Now you might be on to something, Ken Rand had this in mind when he >retrofitted the KR1 with long wings to create the KR1B motor glider. It was >only 27 ft. if I remember right. But he did advise against using it on the >KR2. >How hard would it be to redesign the spar cap for a long wing KR2s? > >Europa has just come out with a long winged motor glider (42 ft.). > >Dave Moore > >>I didn't finish! So why don't some of us Spar Heads and Airfoil Freaks >>get together and draw up some plans for installation of a 30 foot wing >>on a KR2S? All we really need to do is the math for spar caps and the >>airfoil selection could be left of to the builder. We all seem to have >>gotten caught up in the going fast, how about settling on a top speed of >>120 to 130 mph and a stall speed of 40 mph for the "Sport Pilots"? >>KRNet is more than up to the task! Would the stock WAFs work? How big >>would the spar caps need to be for 1200 gross plane with that wing >>span? I think the best approach would design something that would >>almost bolt right up to a plans built bird. No fancy spoilers, flaps, >>ailerons, etc. What do you guys think? >> >>-- >>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz >>Micheal Mims >>Filling and Sanding again! >>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ >>http://members.home.com/mikemims/ >>Aliso Viejo CA >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: dgmoore1@gte.net >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> >> > > > David Moore > mailto:dgmoore1@gte.net > Henderson, Nevada > > > > > > > > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: N4DD@prodigy.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 22:54:51 -0400 X-Message-Number: 33 W.G. KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: jandd@maverickbbs.com > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License > Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:38 PM > > Hello, my name is John Weikel and I live in Kerrville, TX. I am new to the > KR list so please excuse my fits and starts while I get into this thing. I > have a KR-2S in boat stage and am on hold due to having had a heart attack. > I have regained my medical certigication but must have approx $1600 of > medical test annually to keep it current. Since I am retired, this has > priced me out of the air. The proposed Sport Pilot License with self > certification appears to be a way to get back in the air. My concern is > that the KR-2S performance will not fall within the proposed limits. The > max weight of 1200 seems do-able it's the stall speed of 39 kts that I am > worried about. I would be interested in any anformation anyone might offer > pertaining to how to get that stall speed within the proposed limits. I > would like to get back to building but would hate to put the time, effort > and money into a plane I wouldn't be able to legally fly. Any comments you > might have would be appreciated. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Revflow/POSA tuning From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 23:16:23 -0400 X-Message-Number: 34 Where do you buy the eldelbrock carb? R. W. Moore ----- Original Message ----- From: Warron Gray To: KR-net users group Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 3:37 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Revflow/POSA tuning > In case any one is interested the edelbrock QuickSilver 2 is in the same family > as the posa and revflow just a updated version from the same designer but with > floats simple adjustments too ,Warron > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:02:40 -0700 X-Message-Number: 35 JEAN wrote: > > See what your 30 ft. wings will do to the aerodynamic center!!!! Explain please?!? -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S performance and the proposed Sport Pilot License From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 00:30:31 EDT X-Message-Number: 36 In a message dated 99-06-19 12:34:31 EDT, you write: << The WAFs could be located just outside the wing root. >> You will nead really strong WAF's then. The moment is much much higher at root. I thing it is time for a composite spar. Haris Working on Elevator and spars --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com