From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 12:11 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: June 27, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Sunday, June 27, 1999. 1. Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood 2. Re: Belly board 3. Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood 4. Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood 5. Re: cookout &campout 6. strobe info? 7. Re: strobe info? 8. Re: strobe info? 9. Re: cookout &campout 10. Re: strobe info? 11. Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood 12. Arlington Air Show 13. Progress report 14. Re: Progress report 15. Re: Progress report 16. Re: Arlington Air Show 17. Re: Belly board 18. Re: Arlington Air Show 19. Re: Working with carbon fiber 20. Strobes 21. joules 22. motor mounts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood From: "John Weikel" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 05:44:54 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1 I'll second Mark's comments about T-88. I did some test including aluminum to wood and the wood has to give to break the joint. I was amazed and still find it hard to believe just how strong that stuff is. On my RW-6, I scarf joined my longerons using T-88 and did some strength tests with the joints being much stronger then the wood on either side. John W RW-6 KR2S (on hold) Kerrville, Tx -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 11:13 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood > >> I need to flox 1/4 " Aluminum engine mounts to the fuselage. I almost did >it >> today by using EZ-Poxy but then thought that maybe T-88 is better for that >> puropse. > >Haris, > >My vote's for T-88 anytime it involves wood. I've used it to epoxy aluminum >to wood and later had to remove it. The wood had to break first, despite >the fact that I hadn't prepared the aluminum for bonding ( I usually scratch >up the surface with my orbital palm sander). I'm sold on this stuff... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: KR-net users group >Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 10:52 PM >Subject: [kr-net] T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood > > >> Hi, >> >> I need to flox 1/4 " Aluminum engine mounts to the fuselage. I almost did >it >> today by using EZ-Poxy but then thought that maybe T-88 is better for that >> puropse. >> >> Which one should I use? >> >> Thanks >> >> Haris Ashraf >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: langford@hiwaay.net >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> >> > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jandd@maverickbbs.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Belly board From: "John Weikel" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 05:53:06 -0500 X-Message-Number: 2 I too am planning on using a belly board and will pattern it after George Toth's KR-2 (Houston). His board is fuselage width and either 7 or 8 inches wide. He said that it didn't work right until he had cut two rows of holes 1 1/2 - 2 inches in diameter all the way across the board. If I remember correctly, his is mounted near the aft spar. I have slept several times since I looked at his setup so you might want to talk to him instead of taking my word for how he did it. I sure would like to take a look at his actuation mechanism again. John W RW-6 KR-2S Kerrville, Tx -----Original Message----- From: Lynn Hyder To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 4:16 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Belly board >am wondering what your testing has shown useing the belly air brake. >size-holes-yes-no and their size... I plan on putting one on my KR-1.5 >projuct. > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jandd@maverickbbs.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:39:48 EDT X-Message-Number: 3 <> <> I guess I'll use T-88. During fit test I found out that the surface match really closly and there is no need for any flox. I would guess that flox does not serve any purpose other than a structural filler. Thanks again guys. I'll have a little stronger airplane because of you:-) Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:55:55 -0500 X-Message-Number: 4 Haris, Don't know what exactly you're gluing but when gluing aluminum to wood - if I weren't concerned with how the piece looked, I would drill some very tiny holes through the alum. so that the T-88 or the T-88 flox mixture can squish through them a bit to allow a real good hold. However, I've had the same experience where the wood fibers will tear away when separating an alum. to wood bond using T-88. I'm just finishing up a TEAM Eros (then it's back to my KR-1 repaint job) and have used T-88 throughout and am very pleased with the results. It's great stuff! I have used a little sawdust with the T-88 occasionally as a slight non-structural gap filler. Ed Janssen -----Original Message----- From: HAshraf@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Sunday, June 27, 1999 9:49 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood ><> > ><> > >I guess I'll use T-88. During fit test I found out that the surface match >really closly and there is no need for any flox. I would guess that flox does >not serve any purpose other than a structural filler. > >Thanks again guys. I'll have a little stronger airplane because of you:-) > >Haris > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ejanssen@chipsnet.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: cookout &campout From: "terry chizek" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:03:33 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 So far only had a couple Kr people that are thinking about coming, but were going to have 30 and more other pilots there. We will have hotdogs and sausage to eat. I will have my cessina 150 texas tail dragger if someone wants to get alittle tail wheel time should have another CFI pilot with a decathlon if you want to log some tail wheel time or do some acrobatics. > I am having a cookout and campout at Marion, KS (43K) July 10th, 1999 > Saturday around 6:30pm. If anyone is in the neighborhood you are welcome > to join us. We will have a couple speakers after the meal one will be > talking about his combat missions he flew in his B25 in World WarII and the > other will be the history and the remaking of the 1919 Longren and I will > have my Kr2 and the Kr2s that I am building. > > If need more information e-mail me at > chitl@southwind.net > > Terry Chizek @telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: strobe info? From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 15:05:05 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 StrobeHeads, It's been kinda quite lately, so let me throw this out and waste a little bandwidth. I'm about to close out my wing skins and need to run the wires, and maybe mount wingtip strobe power supplies, so I've suddenly become pressed to make a strobe decision. Looking at the AS&S catalog info, it looks like (in Fig 1) that one strobe mounted on the vertical fin is "legal". But that's hard to believe considering it has to be visible from underneath the plane. I've always assumed I was going with two wing tip strobes, but I hesistate to use the usual nav light/strobe combination since it's so huge, and I'd have to fabricate clear wingtips to fair them in properly (although Wicks has clear prefab wingtips for $80 that I might try). Maybe I should mount them on the fuselage top and bottom? Anybody know the relationship between "effective candles" and "joules of energy"? The regs call for 400 effective candles, but the systems are all described in joules of energy. I wonder too if it's safe to assume that anything PMAd is good to go on a plane made after 1977. The Aeroflash 156-0010 system on p 370 of the new AS&S catalog is listed for Grumman aircraft and is cheap, but it doesn't say how bright it is. Right next to it is a miniature single strobe for only $170 and puts out 10 joules, for what that's worth. Too many choices! Anybody have any insight into all of this? And where's Kuntzlemann? I remember seeing their ads somewhere, but kind find them on the web anywhere. Thanks in advance, Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: strobe info? From: Donald Reid Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:51:17 -0400 X-Message-Number: 7 Mark Langford wrote: big snip > Looking at the AS&S catalog info, it > looks like (in Fig 1) that one strobe mounted on the vertical fin is > "legal". But that's hard to believe considering it has to be visible from > underneath the plane. I've always assumed I was going with two wing tip > strobes, but I hesistate to use the usual nav light/strobe combination since > it's so huge, and I'd have to fabricate clear wingtips to fair them in > properly (although Wicks has clear prefab wingtips for $80 that I might > try). Maybe I should mount them on the fuselage top and bottom? Top and bottom would work, but I think that one on the tail will still be legal. As I remember the reg, you don't need a full spherical coverage. You need 360 degrees radial, and 30 degrees (I think) vertically. You are also allowed to have small "blind" spots in the shadow of the fuselage. If you are going for day only, then the strobe is a nice to have, not a must have, feature. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: strobe info? From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:25:46 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 OK, Dr Dean turned me on to the Kuntzleman page at http://www.kestrobes.com/ and the Aeroflash page at http://www.aeroflash.com/plane.html and now my question is why are these "non-PMA'd? Because they're simply not bright enough to pass muster or because they didn't go to the hassle of getting them certified? I guess I'll call and ask tomorrow. The Kuntzleman Streamlined kit looks like the ticket. It's a dual double flash for $228, but I suspect that it's not bright enough for that price. I don't mind blowing big bucks for Whelens, but they are certainly not the definition of streamlined. Any other suggestions? Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: cookout &campout From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 19:54:07 -0400 X-Message-Number: 9 Terry. Come to the meeting in the fall. I'd love some tail wheel time. Mine is a 1960 staight tail 150. Bill W.G. KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: terry chizek > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: cookout &campout > Date: Sunday, June 27, 1999 2:03 PM > > > So far only had a couple Kr people that are thinking about coming, but were > going to have 30 and more other pilots there. We will have hotdogs and > sausage to eat. I will have my cessina 150 texas tail dragger if someone > wants to get alittle tail wheel time should have another CFI pilot with a > decathlon if you want to log some tail wheel time or do some acrobatics. > > > > > > > > > I am having a cookout and campout at Marion, KS (43K) July 10th, 1999 > > Saturday around 6:30pm. If anyone is in the neighborhood you are welcome > > to join us. We will have a couple speakers after the meal one will be > > talking about his combat missions he flew in his B25 in World WarII and > the > > other will be the history and the remaking of the 1919 Longren and I will > > have my Kr2 and the Kr2s that I am building. > > > > If need more information e-mail me at > > chitl@southwind.net > > > > Terry Chizek > > > > @telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: strobe info? From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 20:35:27 EDT X-Message-Number: 10 Mark When I picked up my gear from Don Diehl in Jasper OK, (just south of Tulsa) he showed me some molded clear wingtip plexiglas to replace the KR tips. Looked great and thats what I will use. Might check with him. Believe the cost is $60.00 per pair. I plan on useing the top and bottom of the fuselage just to keep the lines short. I've flown for years at night with just the nav lights and sometimes without. Thought the rotating beacon was a great improvement! Guess it was safe with just Orville and me in the air. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:31:53 EDT X-Message-Number: 11 In a message dated 99-06-27 11:56:43 EDT, you write: << Don't know what exactly you're gluing but when gluing aluminum to wood - if I weren't concerned with how the piece looked, >> KR2S plans specify 1/4" thick Al angles be glued on top engine mount braces (the twin 5/8"x 3" pieces). These pieces will provide support to the top engine mount bolts. I did use T-88 and scuff sanded the Al pieces. Drilling small holes was a real good idea. I'll keep it in mind for later use. Thanks for the input. Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Arlington Air Show From: "Mel Poradun" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 19:15:49 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 Is anyone going to the Arlington Air Show???? July 7-11 Mel Poradun mporadun@wa.freei.net Ferndale, Washington ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Progress report From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:14:32 EDT X-Message-Number: 13 Hi Folks, Some more progress: During last month or so, since my last report, I have completed rear spars and been working on the elevator mostly. I addition I have been able to work on the boat a little bit, mainly the remaining gussetts. Latest addition is the engine mount braces. I had some trouble with engine mount braces. Not to say bad things about AS&S, but they did cause me some delay. I bought 1 ft of 4x4x1/4 Al angle from them and using a hacksaw made the pieces. I took a while as I had to cut a notch in them to accomodate the longerons. When I was all done it would not fit. I thought that maybe they were too big so I ground the sides by 1/8". Still would not work. Then I found out that the angle was not really 90 degrees. So I took it back and got my money. The salesman had to make a remark that "What do you expect, this is not aerospace quality". That was so funny I forgot to get angry. As all the stock they had was same, I had to order through Wicks and their stuff was fine. I also ordered a rudder brake kit from Wicks which came without instructions. So, I have two pieces of Al, some nuts bolts and washers and will have to design the brakes myself. Or, I can go to Mikes plane and copy his design. Today I did glue the pieces in and next time I will be able to glue the bottom plywood brace. One other little modification I made is the front of the cockpit floor. The plans specify 1/4" plywood. I used 1/8" ply and reinforced it with heavy triaxial fibercloth. came out pretty nice and is lighter too:-). It was the first glass work I did and it was piece as cake. I have seen Mike fwe times and that really helped. He has very good technique and it is wortwhile to imitate it. There is too much heavy 1/4 inch plywood specified. A lot of weight saving could be accomplished by using fiberglass. I plan to use fiber glass sandwich for seat back too. Back to the elevator. After some false starts I was able to attach all hinges and foam sucsessfully. I am using five hinges and tip balance weights. The stabilizer itself is 80" long and has 25% more area. I am using styrofoam so next time I would be able to hot wire it. That should save some weight on filler later. All the foam is microed and the elevator has absolutely no binding. It took alteast thirty hours to get there. As elevator is larger than stock, I may either use a little heavier cloth (8.5 oz) or 3.0" carbon fiber tape on leading edge of the stabilizer and trailing edge of the elevator. I am still undecided. A third option is all carbon fiber but I do not know whether I would be able to work with carbon effectively, although is the lightest option. During next few weeks I should be able to finish the front spars, glass (or carbon?) the elevator and attach it to the fuselage and start on the rudder. I plan to set the dihedral, wing twist (I forgot its real name) before I glue the spars in. Next week it will be a one year since the project started so stay tuned. Maybe I'll write something on a Friday :-). The story has dead cows (thanks to El Nino rains), black widow spiders, chewing gum stealing rats (I am not kidding), 115 degrees days and trips to exotic far off places (Ok only to OK). And new friends. Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Progress report From: "Mark Langford" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:36:51 -0500 X-Message-Number: 14 Haris wrote: > elevator. I am still undecided. A third option is all carbon fiber but I do > not know whether I would be able to work with carbon effectively, although is > the lightest option. Haris, Fantastic progress. Maybe I can fly with you at next year's Gathering. Dont sweat the carbon fiber. I've never had any problem with it wetting out or otherwise. I love the stuff. Three times stronger and only 6 times the price! Maybe the reason it works so well for me is that I do the layup on plastic first, thereby soaking the back side with epoxy before I even apply it to the slurry-microed foam. And I use Aeropoxy, but I'll bet E-ZPoxy would do great too. At the temperatures you guys operate at, just about anything would wet out. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Progress report From: FLYKR2S@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:28:01 EDT X-Message-Number: 15 In a message dated 6/27/99 9:19:16 PM Central Daylight Time, HAshraf@AOL.COM writes: << I also ordered a rudder brake kit from Wicks which came without instructions. So, I have two pieces of Al, some nuts bolts and washers and will have to design the brakes myself >> Did I miss something here? Please explain. I looked in Wicks catalog and could not determine what this is. I'm confused. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI flykr2s@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Arlington Air Show From: MARVIN MCCOY Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:29:05 -0700 X-Message-Number: 16 ------------------ Mel: I am going Saturday the 10th. We should all meet up at the Bar-B Q pit. How about 10:00 am. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field ------------------------- Mel Poradun wrote: > > Is anyone going to the Arlington Air Show???? > July 7-11 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Belly board From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:52:50 -0400 X-Message-Number: 17 Me to. RWM ----- Original Message ----- From: John Weikel To: KR-net users group Sent: Sunday, June 27, 1999 6:53 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Belly board > I too am planning on using a belly board and will pattern it after George > Toth's KR-2 (Houston). His board is fuselage width and either 7 or 8 inches > wide. He said that it didn't work right until he had cut two rows of holes > 1 1/2 - 2 inches in diameter all the way across the board. If I remember > correctly, his is mounted near the aft spar. I have slept several times > since I looked at his setup so you might want to talk to him instead of > taking my word for how he did it. I sure would like to take a look at his > actuation mechanism again. > John W > RW-6 > KR-2S > Kerrville, Tx > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn Hyder > To: KR-net users group > Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 4:16 PM > Subject: [kr-net] Re: Belly board > > > >am wondering what your testing has shown useing the belly air brake. > >size-holes-yes-no and their size... I plan on putting one on my KR-1.5 > >projuct. > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jandd@maverickbbs.com > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Arlington Air Show From: "Mel Poradun" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 20:51:12 -0700 X-Message-Number: 18 I will see you and anyone else that shows up. Everyone is welcome. how is the KR coming along?? I have started mine . I have the sides almost complete. Mel ----- Original Message ----- From: MARVIN MCCOY To: KR-net users group Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 8:29 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Arlington Air Show > ------------------ > Mel: > I am going Saturday the 10th. We should all meet up at the Bar-B Q > pit. How about 10:00 am. > > Marvin McCoy > Seattle, WA. > North end of Boeing field > > ------------------------- > > Mel Poradun wrote: > > > > Is anyone going to the Arlington Air Show???? > > July 7-11 > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: mporadun@wa.freei.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Working with carbon fiber From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:39:52 -0500 X-Message-Number: 19 Netters - Not sure whether this has been mentioned before, but the edges of a carbon fiber piece is difficult to sand smooth - keeps getting frizzy edges. If you run some "Super Glue" or similar stuff along the edge and let it dry, then the carbon fiber sands to a real nice smooth edge. Use the cheaper watery stuff - not the thicker gel. Ed Janssen -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford To: KR-net users group Date: Sunday, June 27, 1999 9:50 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Progress report >Haris wrote: > >> elevator. I am still undecided. A third option is all carbon fiber but I >do >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ejanssen@chipsnet.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Strobes From: Ron Freiberger Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:40:16 -0500 X-Message-Number: 20 I put a "home made" strobe on my two-holer, and the requirements allow you to blank part of the area so that the stobe doesn't distract the pilot. Still, it's very awkward on a low wing. Two wingtip units are very much to be preferred. Double blinking and such cute tricks are not needed to meet minimum standards. Most FAA personnel are not comfortable measuring coverage in steradians, but an honest effort fot good coverage will get you by. Ron Freiberger... No KR in Kokomo....:(. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: joules From: boggyd@webtv.net (D Bogdan) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:05:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Message-Number: 21 FWW In my A S & S catalog on page 363 regarding Whelen Strobes there is a table showing each Whelen unit grouped by joule and the corresponding effective candle power... It does not seem to be a linear relationship. Color definitely effects the candle power. Example: for 25 joule per flash using the 14V A413 power supply: A650 (light) 660 effective CP A500 (light) 330 effective CP Regards, DJ Milwaukee They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither... Historical Review of Pennsylvania: Benjamin Franklin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: motor mounts From: boggyd@webtv.net (D Bogdan) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:11:26 -0500 (CDT) X-Message-Number: 22 Why would you glue motor mounts on? Why not bolt them on? Regards, DJ Milwaukee They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither... Historical Review of Pennsylvania: Benjamin Franklin --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com