From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Saturday, July 03, 1999 12:15 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: July 02, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Friday, July 02, 1999. 1. something to think about. 2. Aviation-grade Concrete and lead 3. Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood 4. Eduardo's sander 5. Re: New Web Site 6. Re: something to think about. 7. Re: something to think about. 8. Re: strobe info? 9. What Flox is. 10. Re: Painting etc.- Cable routing etc. 11. Trailer? and Finishing UP! 12. Re: D-fly vs. KR 13. Re: Tailpost 14. Re: Trailer? 15. Re: Trailer 16. Re: Painting etc.- Cable routing etc. 17. Re: What Flox is. 18. Vacation? 19. Fwd: RE: Contactable Quotes 20. Re: something to think about. 21. Arlington Airshow 22. RR wing skins 23. Ready, fire, aim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: something to think about. From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 07:48:39 -0400 X-Message-Number: 1 >From: "Jack Lockamy" >To: "VW List" >Subject: Lessons Learned: Tiedown Aircraft When Starting The First Time >Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:12:39 -0700 >To the LIST: > >Today I learned of a terrible accident which could have been avoided and should fall under the category of "Lessons Learned" .... the hard way. I share this information with the list because of the possibility one of you may also be "running" your aircraft engines for first time and there are definitely some things to consider. Someone else's misfortune could be a valuable lesson.... > >Yesterday, one of my local EAA Chapter member who has been building an RV-6A (tri-gear side by-by-side two place Van's Aircraft) with an IO-360-A1A and constant speed prop, was conducting his first engine "start" after approx. 5 years of building. I was not present to observe the following, however four or five other members happened to be present or in the area and described the incident as follows: > >The member pulled the RV-6A out of the hangar to conduct his first engine run. The plane is approx. 98% complete needing only paint and few finishing details. The member started the aircraft PRIOR TO SECURING IT TO A TIEDOWN! (Do you see where this is going?) The engine immediately roared to life AT FULL THROTTLE.... member was in the aircraft (seats had not been installed yet....) and was unable to stop the engine or aircraft! Another chapter member present attempted to "hold" the left wing and aircraft from moving forward into a parked aircraft on the ramp. The assisting member was "thrown" to the ground after the RV-6A made a hard left turn and RAN INTO A HANGAR, TORE THROUGH THE HANGAR barely missing four other parked aircraft prior to a sudden stoppage of the engine! > >The owner (pilot) suffered major head wounds to the forehead on the instrument panel. He also barely missed running into four casual observers on the ramp! The prop was destroyed, pieces found 2-3 hundred yards away. The engine was a "0" time .... brand new Lycoming IO-360. That zero time engine will now require a complete tear down and inspection, add a new prop, repair major damage to the airframe... and the owner is looking at a minimum of $20,000 repair bill. All before the first taxi test or flight! > >The moral of the story is... after you install that beautiful VW engine in your aircraft, please make sure you SECURE THE AIRCRAFT PRIOR TO ENGINE START. Other members inspecting the damaged RV-6A report the throttle linkage appears to be rigged wrong and the pilot had incorrectly safety wired the connection to the carb. > >Even if you feel you have done everything right, are in the cockpit and "on the brakes", wouldn't it make sense to take the extra precaution and tie that tail down? > >Food for thought. > >Jack Lockamy >Camarillo, CA > --------------------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA mailto:dodger@accessnode.net (new address) mailto:dodger@coincidental.net (old address) http://accessnode.net/~dodger --------------------------------------------------------- Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Aviation-grade Concrete and lead From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 09:25:14 -0400 X-Message-Number: 2 Some more interesting ideas.. WD --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Veeduber@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:59:14 EDT Subject: Aviation-grade Concrete and lead To: VW@lists.kz To All: A fellow came by the shop the other day to discus my welding some parts for him. He brought along the particular piece -- a wing flap -- to illustrate his particular need since the welded part would be considerably different from the component shown in the plans. Which he had modified. Which is okay. 'Experimental' means just that. But the new flap -- a Fowler arrangement -- was going to put one hell of a load on the brackets (which he wanted me to make) so naturally I asked about his test data. Blank stare. No testing. Lots of calculations but no testing. I explained that he wouldn't need to actual buckle the beautiful flap -- he could bolt the pivot/brackets to a hunk of plywood, secure the brackets to some sort of angle-iron support structure instead of the real spar and load the thing with lead. To test it, we could rig some sort of pulley & arm arrangement to run it in & out. Hook it up to a 1/3 horse motor, let it run for a week. Or two. And not all eight brackets, just a couple of them. Mebbe just one, if we put our thinking caps on. He wandered off to find himself a different weldor. Wanna build a plane? Fine. Jump right in there. Wanna modify it? No problem. Go for it. But if the modification is something other than the color of the upholstery, you'd be wise to test it. Static testing isn't as difficult as you might believe. A basic tool in your testing warbag is concrete. I love concrete. So did the Romans. (You can still see examples of Roman concrete, still doing its thing two thousand years after it was mixed.) Home Base is having a sale on redi-mix this week. Buck a bag. Sixty pounders... about half a cubic foot. Little bit lean in the cement department (you should add about 4 ounces of Portland cement to each 60 pound bag to arrive at the standard six-bag-per-yard ratio) and the aggrigate size is a tad small... you'll never achieve the 3000psi you could get with larger aggrigate... but it'll do fine for testing airplanes. It doesn't have to look like an airplane test facility. If you put on your thinkin cap it can look like a driveway or a porch. What makes it an airplane test facility is the fact it is eight feet square, a foot and a half thick and liberally laced with two layers 1/2" re-bar on 10" centers, to which you have artfully attached a pattern of 1/2" barrel nuts. The barrel nuts are welded to J-bolts... those things that poke up out of a foundation and to which the base sill of the load-bearing walls is bolted. Except here, the J-bolts are welded to your re-bar... and the barrel nut is bolted to strips of plywood. Nothing pokes out. In fact, you keep the barrel nuts filled with bolts when you aren't using them. When it comes to testing, you're moving the world. Try to do that and you run into the same problem that plagued Atlas -- you need a place to stick the lever. The idea here is to end up with a slab in which a pattern of threaded anchors are well secured. Thereafter, any time you want to bolt something down, you can. (Actually, it ain't all that big. Eight feet square and eighteen inches thick, you're talking about a six-ton mass -- say, 200 of those Home Base bags. Itty-bitty wing panel, like the six-footer on a Teenie Two, needs about two and a half tons of mass for proper testing. Bigger wings, you have to test the full span, get the load in pure compression, which is why you want a slab 18 inches thick.) Wanna test a wing? Build the wing then fabricate a bracket to hold it upside down, the bracket being designed to bolt to your slab. Now you can load up the wing and see if it breaks. (That's where the lead comes in. Kinda hard to build an airplane without lead... but it's virtually impossible to test one without it.) Actually, that misses the point. The numbers have told you where it SHOULD break. Properly built, it won't break. What you want to discover is could the thing hold the weight if it were built lighter? And if so, where can you reduce the weight? Fewer rivets? Thinner sections of metal? More/larger lightening holes? If I take away... this... what will it do to... that? Nowadays, best place to get lead is from wheel weights. Some outfits will still give them to you but most charge a nominal amount. No problem. Take them home, put them in a coffee can atop a couple of fire bricks, start yourself a little charcoal fire and let them melt. The clips and crud will float -- you can spoon it off. Then you can pour the lead into a mold -- angle iron makes a handy mold... if it's big enough and you weld a couple of dams on the ends. Soot the mold with your torch to keep the lead from soldering itself to the steel. Or scrub it with chalk. Then cast your ingot and let it cool. Once it's cool, weigh it, date it and mark it. Do that once a week. Or once a month. Or... This is where being a member of an EAA chapter comes in handy. (That is, of an ACTIVE chapter, not the coffee & donut crowd.) Working alone, it's kinda tough to build up the two or three TONS of lead you'll need to do some realistic static testing. But it's no problem at all for a GROUP to come up with that much lead in a year or so... and add to it over the years. For some tests, lead shot is handier than bars or plates. So you make a 'shot-tower'. That's a coffee can holding a couple pounds of molten lead atop a twelve-foot step-ladder. Then you prick a hole in the bottom of the can. Little hole. Nail on a stick, give the bottom of the can a whack (it ain't going no where!). The lead runs out the little hole, breaks into very irregular chunkies... and lands in a tub of water. It would have to fall about 25 feet to form a reasonably nice sphere. But for static testing, your 'shot bags' don't have to be full of spheres... granules will work just as well. As with the bars, you weigh, sign and date each bag. #10 canvas, sewn with a flat-felled seam, does fine up to about 25 pounds. (Never heard of #10 canvas or flat-felled seames? Lookit a pair of Levis. That's #10 canvas. Lookit the outer leg seam. That's a flat-felled seam. And yes, you can make a perfectly good shot bag by cutting the legs off a pair of Levi's :-) Wanna test a landing gear? Make yourself a big lever. Bolt one end to your test slab and put the landing gear on the other. Rig an A-frame to hoist the thing to the test height. Load the lever with lead, hit the pelican hook and let'er drop. Side-loads? So rig a ramp for it to come down on (more concrete :-) (You can't bank the plane... so you bank the earth. [Atlas, remember? :-) Back... oh, I donno... 1972? Me an' some other fools tested an extended outer wing panel for a KR. Didn't break. That made them happy and they went off and started building bigger KR's. But it was an awful heavy wing panel. I built a lighter one, using fiberglas instead of Dynel. It didn't break either. I ended up making three outer wing panels before I got one to fail. Each one was lighter than the one before. Thinner spar caps and webs. Less fiberglas. Kept the same fittings since it had to mate with the center section but I went from .125 to .090 to .065... and the mainspar remained intact (the failure initiated in the rear spar). But that's an extreme case, making a whole wing panel (although easy/cheap enough to do with the KR... if you use pine instead of spruce). Mostly, you do a lot of little tests rather than building an entire wing section. You test a rib then you make up a phony spar and test that. You might even make up a torque cell outta some nose-ribs you've banged out of scrap and a section of spar you've made up out of whatever came to hand... then you twist it, to see if you need more nose ribs or less. Using pine instead of spruce, 6061 instead of 2024, the little tests provide the clues you need to home in on beneficial changes you may be able to make.... the little tests provide you with NUMBERS. (Wanna know how strong a spar you can build using drugstore aluminum and roof flashing? I can tell you to within a couple of pounds :-) Wanna find out if you can get by with three AD-3's instead of four? Wanna find out if you can safely use 6061 for a particular part instead of 2024? You can calculate all this. And always should -- you always START with the numbers. Testing allows you to derive NEW numbers... and to enjoy the failures in the convenience of your own home instead of on some mountain top. Why bother? Because engineers don't KNOW. They run the numbers and say "It SHOULD do this..." If "it" has done it before, chances are it will do it again. But when you push the envelope, you don't really KNOW. Indeed, one of the best tests of a good engineer is seen in the elegance of the TESTS he comes up with. Can I make it lighter? What pattern of inexpensive, permanently installed rivets will provide more strength and less weight than this expensive, needs-to-be-periodically-inspected bolt? Will a vacuum bagged three-layer composite be as strong than the squeegee'd five layer hand lay-up called out in the plans? What is the actual load path? Which fitting is the most critical? What happens if I reduce the water content to 8%? What happens if this fitting gets seriously corroded? How much heat -- and how many cycles -- can I put on this seam? I know what the numbers say. But numbers are like the mileage on a map. Reality is the trip itself. The numbers offer an immediate answer but leave the future a blur. It SHOULD be okay... until the top blows off the 737 over Hawaii. -R.S.Hoover --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA mailto:dodger@accessnode.net (new address) mailto:dodger@coincidental.net (old address) http://accessnode.net/~dodger --------------------------------------------------------- Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood From: Willard561@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:24:59 EDT X-Message-Number: 3 Mike: I will try to get a copy of that article, I was tardy in renewing my mebership last year. The article I mentioned was in Kitplanes Jan 1984 it was a part of a series written by Andy Marshall on composite construction. Bill Higdon Willard561@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Eduardo's sander From: Kimball Anderson Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:26:17 -0400 X-Message-Number: 4 Hi, everybody. Eduardo Iglesias recently sent me a description of a sander that he has come up with and is using, and I thought I'd pass it along to the group. The sander is intended for sanding simple (non-compound) curves or flat surfaces. The sander starts with a section of 3- or 4-inch plastic pipe about a meter long. Sanding strips are glued to the surface of the pipe, similar to Mark Langford's sander, with the strips wound around the pipe in a spiral fashion so that the entire surface is covered. The sanding material should be pre-fit to the pipe and marked before the adhesive is applied to make sure everything lays down nice and flat. Eduardo then epoxies a shank or mandrel into a block of wood, chucks the assembly (once the epoxy sets, of course) into a lathe, and turns the wood portion so that it fits tightly into the pipe. This assembly is epoxied into one end of the pipe. A similar assembly is made for the other end, but this time using something similar to a rolling pin handle or even a simple broomstick rather than a steel shank. Once the sander is finished, the shank is chucked into a drill motor (Eduardo says a minimum of 400W and 13mm chuck). The other end of the sander is held by hand, using a cotton glove for protection and a generous quantity of wax applied to the wood handle. Use a slow rotation speed, and apply the sander against the direction of rotation. What Eduardo has come up with here is basically a meter-long hand-held sanding drum. He says that this sander removes material faster than anything else he has used, and the resulting sanded surface is absolutely flat. Thus far he has used the one-man version described here, but is in the process of fabricating a 2.6-meter two-man version, using 4-inch pipe, for use on larger surfaces (like the wings). See y'all later! Kimball Anderson isleno@hargray.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New Web Site From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:07:13 -0400 X-Message-Number: 5 Rich. Just saw ur web site. Very nice. It's guys like u who convince me I'm on the right track but a fair bit behind. Thanks. Speaking of tracks did u k now that you can't tell which way the train went by looking at the tracks. W.G. KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: Richard Parker > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: New Web Site > Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 5:57 AM > > Wow, you have gotten a lot done since March 98! I'm suprised you even had > time to fabricate the secdond child in that timeframe. > > Your site was motivating to me since we started around the same time. I've > got to get through this house move and get my butt in gear. Bought a bigger > house and tripled my building space (my wife thought it was because we > wanted another bedroom ;-) huh! > > Rich Parker > > > >From: FLYKR2S@aol.com > >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" > >To: "KR-net users group" > >Subject: [kr-net] New Web Site > >Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:25:56 EDT > > > >Hi KR'ers, > >I now have a web site. Check it out and let me know what you think. > > > >http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > > > >Mark Jones (N886MJ) > >Waukesha, WI > >flykr2s@aol.com > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: richontheroad@hotmail.com > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: something to think about. From: BSHADR@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:19:48 EDT X-Message-Number: 6 Safetyheads: My additional $.02, I spend last Sunday moving a gorgeous Stewart S51 projec= t=20 to the very Camarillo, CA hanger this RV6A was stored in and subsequently=20 attacked. Owen, the fellow with the S51 was standing inside when the RV cam= e=20 back in to visit - business end first, here is a portion of his version: <<=85A bystander saw it headed for the tied down Piper to the east, and grabbed the wing to try to stop or turn it (naturally, since he owned th= e Piper). It knocked him down, but not before he got it turned into the hanga= r where I was. It continued to turn inside the hangar, still under full power= ,=20 and headed back west. The wing tip hit one of my wing stands (I was working on the other 3 feet away) and the prop missed one of my wings by perhaps 6". The wing hit the side of my wing crate and knocked it back into the hanger=20 wall, but did not damage my wing. His was another matter! The prop (still under full power) hit the west door and the SW corner of the hanger, cutting=20 through the door frame and shredding the sheet covering it=85>> Now I'm here to tell you that this guy would have had more than a $20K bill=20 if it had hit that S51!!! Owen is at$100K plus at this point and does hot=20 have the engine in yet=85 BTW, the metal work on the S51 is incredible. Ow= en=20 is a Mechanical Engineering professor at UCLA, so our chapter doesn't expect=20 anything less from him. Owen may have added justifiable homicide to his lis= t=20 of credits if that prop had been much closer!!! Pull off the power, mixture and hitting the mag switch came to mind, but I=20 suppose the "test pilot" was too busy with his shock to do what he should=20 have planned ahead of time=85 Randy Stein Soviet Monica, CA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: something to think about. From: Kimball Anderson Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 16:52:52 -0400 X-Message-Number: 7 Hello, everyone. As long as we're on the subject of safety in aircraft testing, I'm go= ing to mention the soon-forthcoming new addition to the FAQ, an HTML version= of Rick Junkin's KR Test Plan. The test plan isn't linked into the FAQ = main menu yet (sorry, still working on it, but almost finished), but can b= e reached at: http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking/chapter8/main.html Click on the Preparations section from the main menu, then on Emergen= cy Plans and Equipment, and scroll down to Ground Emergency Plan. Also,= click on Powerplant Tests and scroll down to Safety Precautions. There is = more applicable information in the Test Plan, so take the opportunity to b= rowse about. If the participants in the engine "test" in this case had had a plan = in place like those described in Rick's test plan, all the damage caused= by the runaway aircraft could have been minimized or avoided altogether, bec= ause everyone would have been prepared for such an occurrence. Tip to the= wise. Rick Junkin has put a lot of effort and excellent information in his = test plan, and anyone even thinking about testing an airplane would be well-advised to browse though it, either on Rick's home page at http://members.aol.com/eaglegator or on the FAQ. Kimball Anderson isleno@hargray.com -----Original Message----- =46rom: BSHADR@aol.com To: KR-net users group Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 12:28 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: something to think about. Safetyheads: My additional $.02, I spend last Sunday moving a gorgeous Stewart S51 project to the very Camarillo, CA hanger this RV6A was stored in and subseque= ntly attacked. Owen, the fellow with the S51 was standing inside when the= RV came back in to visit - business end first, here is a portion of his versi= on: /* snip */ Now I'm here to tell you that this guy would have had more than a $20= K bill if it had hit that S51!!! Owen is at$100K plus at this point and doe= s hot have the engine in yet=85 BTW, the metal work on the S51 is incredib= le. Owen is a Mechanical Engineering professor at UCLA, so our chapter doesn't= expect anything less from him. Owen may have added justifiable homicide to = his list of credits if that prop had been much closer!!! Pull off the power, mixture and hitting the mag switch came to mind, = but I suppose the "test pilot" was too busy with his shock to do what he sh= ould have planned ahead of time=85 Randy Stein Soviet Monica, CA --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: isleno@hargray.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-39474B@telelists.co= m ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: strobe info? From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 18:08:41 -0700 X-Message-Number: 8 Mark Langford wrote: > > OK, Dr Dean turned me on to the Kuntzleman page at > http://www.kestrobes.com/ and the Aeroflash page at > http://www.aeroflash.com/plane.html >>>> Something else to think about as far as keeping it simple. Remember when you flew that ole C-150? Most of them didn't even have strobes. They had nothing more than a brake light type bulb (thick element) hooked up to a heavy duty flasher. This is a "beacon" and is perfectly legal from what I have read (day or night). If you are looking for visibility (collision avoidance) I can guarantee you that a pulse light system (flashing landing light) is far more effective than ANY strobes you can build or buy. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: What Flox is. From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 18:46:58 -0700 X-Message-Number: 9 R.W., Flox is a mixture of epoxy and cotton Flock that is mixed and creates a structural filler material. It is commonly used on the trailing edges of fiberglass lay-ups, and used in the sealing of the wing tanks per the plans. I have made flox from both Hexcell Structural Adheasive (Like T-88), and Aeropoxy (Used for fiberglass work). In the case of my wing tanks I mixed it with Aeropoxy, and smeared it into the tank seam with a tongue depressor. R.W. Moore wrote: > > I have cut open my wing gas tank to stop the leaks. What do I use and where > do I buy it. The leaks are next to the main spar. I read in ACP catalog the > a sealer for about $14. 00 a Quart. I do not know about FLOX what is it and > where do you buy it? > RWMoore > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: KR-net users group > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 12:19 PM > Subject: [kr-net] Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood > > > In a message dated 6/30/99 9:21:46 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > > rossy@teleport.com writes: > > > > << Michael Taglieri wrote: > > > > > > >This Floxing of the aluminum mounts is news to me. I have made > > > >FLOX from both Aeropoxy, and Hexcel Structural Adhesive (Similar > > > >to T-88). The T88, will be thicker, but will work. I found using > > > >the structural adhesive easier to use for small batches as it is > > > > > > If I remember correctly, the aluminum mounts were first suggested in an > > > old Newsletter (perhaps by Lance Niebuhr??) following a firewall > failure > > > after a hard landing. That article recommended both bolting and > > > epoxying. Eventually the idea made it into the plans but mentioned > only > > > bolting. > > > > > > This either means (A) Rand-Robinson did careful stress analysis and > > > determined that epoxying was not needed, or (B) another slapdash error > in > > > the plans. > > > > > > Mike Taglieri > > > >> > > I have had a fair amount of experience with glueing aluminum, and unless > the > > surface > > is prepared properly,ie FPL etch or Boeing anodize process, the aluminum > will > > seperate from the rest of the assy. after a while. So I think the glue was > > deleted because it would seperate after a short time anyway. ps I know > some > > of you have had these joints hold for a "long time" but a lot of Industry > > experience by a lot of companies says unless properly preped, they won't > > hold. > > Bill Higdon > > Willard561@aol.com > > > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting etc.- Cable routing etc. From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 18:50:39 -0700 X-Message-Number: 10 Kenny, You might want to "trial fit" your cables before drilling the stainless. I have a couple "extra" holes now after I had to move the throttle cables. (That is mount the engine, and plan things through the plywood first). I have multiple holes. I kept the electrical and fuel lines seperate. And I may still need to move the mixture and carb heat cables around. I don't yet have holes drilled for cabin heat so there may be more in the future. I painted my airplane, and the actual spraying was the easy part. The hard part will be sanding and filling.... I stopped too soon, so I may someday re-do the filling to get a smoother perfect finish, on the other hand, I may just build another plane instead. -- Regards Ross Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: > > How many of you guys actually painted your aircraft? Was it worth it or > do wish you would have paid an expert ? Mine will be getting this > treatment in the next few mos. > Any tips would be appreciated. Also, what"s the best way to run the > cables etc. through the firewall? What I mean is, one larger hole for > everything or several smaller ones for each cable etc. Thanks, Kenny. > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Trailer? and Finishing UP! From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 18:57:43 -0700 X-Message-Number: 11 jscott.pilot@juno.co > Add hanger space at a local airport into the negotiations. If they > really want you, they'll find a way. Once you get to know the locals, > there' susually a way around or an alternate to the waiting list. After I told them no, we were not moving to Arizona, they offered a month off with pay, to think it over and decide one way or the other. Turns out my wife really wants to move to Phoenix. So, I'm taking a month to work on my KR. Since my hanger mate finished a successful first flight today of his Zenair Zodiac, I started on completing my KR. I got about 6 hours of work in, and made a nifty carb heat muff, and routed the duct work for the carb heat. The downside is that the cowling doesn't fit now with the added ducting, so I cut it open, and am preparing to make more room. I gave up looking for the fuel shut off valve, and walked over to the local FBO/shop and picked up a fuel shutoff valve for the Left wing. I should be able to find the one I already had now that I bought a new one. I'll be posting more progress, and hopefully new photos once I have the engine running again. -- Regards Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: D-fly vs. KR From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:02:58 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 > P.S. I was told by an unofficial source that you are required to wear a > personal parachute during flight testing of an experimental aircraft. Is > this true? And if so, what is required as far as parachute training? I've > never heard of this before.... > This is not true, my hangar mate did his first flight in his Zenair Zodiac with no chute, and was not arrested by the FAA officials, (who were by the way, not patrolling his aircraft this morning). -- Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Tailpost From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:04:28 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 T.Flemming wrote: > Where the longerons attach to the tailpost, causes a shallow (V). The > plywood sides wouldn't be able to make this inside curve. So did ya'll > taper the sides of the tailpost or did ya'll add some spruce to smooth the > transition from longeron to tailpost. > I had purchased an electric hand plane to taper the spars, and it works to taper the tail post as well. (Black & Decker). -- Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Trailer? From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:08:00 -0700 X-Message-Number: 14 Thank You! We were considering Stellar Airpark but thought it would be > 200K for homes. Back years ago, I could have bought one for less, but couldn't afford it then either. Glendale will work till my name comes up in Chandler, but the drive from Chandler is poopy. We will be most likely moving to Chandler or Tempe, but will consider the area near the old Williams Airforce base. (Gateway). -- Thanks again! Ross -- Thanks N71476@aol.com wrote: > > I have a hangar in Glendale. It is a little expensive 235 but at least it > keeps the baby out of the sun. They are building several new hangars at > Goodyear. They will be going for around the 150's. You can just about always > get a hangar at Glendale because of the price. Or you can get a home at > Stelar in the mid 400's that have a hangar and runway attached. But that to > is a little pricey for most people. Let me know I will look around for > you..... > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Trailer From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:12:19 -0700 X-Message-Number: 15 Bob, Thanks, this was the type of trailer size wise, I was considering buying or fabricating. Dual wheels will keep it more stable, but is overkill from a capacity point. Another option I have is to leave the plane hangared here until I get the sign off, then fly it down to Phoenix. Hmmm.. -- Regards Ross RFG842@aol.com wrote: > > I bought a new 16' car carrier with dual wheels and electric brakes locally > for 1,250. It had a 2x6" deck and a welded angle iron frame one foot up from > the deck even with the tops of the wheel fenders. > > Built a 3/4 " plywood box, bolted to the angle iron and faired out at the > fenders for the spars on the KR2S. Kept the top rather low and built slings > on the sides (inside) for the wings. Have straps bolted to the floor to > secure the fuselage. > > Now I have a rather inexpensive, traveling hanger. The trailer is overkill > from a capacity standpoint but we unbolt the box and use it for other things. > Now I just have to finish the KR. > > Bob > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting etc.- Cable routing etc. From: Ross Youngblood Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:15:34 -0700 X-Message-Number: 16 I too vote for the gravity feed gun. Worked better then my old gun until I failed to clean it properly.... Either I will be able to clean it or buy another next time. -- Ross terry chizek wrote: > > > > How many of you guys actually painted your aircraft? Was it worth it or > > do wish you would have paid an expert ? Mine will be getting this > > treatment in the next few mos. > > Any tips would be appreciated. Also, what"s the best way to run the > > cables etc. through the firewall? What I mean is, one larger hole for > > everything or several smaller ones for each cable etc. Thanks, Kenny. > > Just got done painting my Kr2 this week was going to get it done > professionlly but decided that all the work is getting ready to paint the I > bought one of the new gravity feed spray gun that made the difference in my > painting it works really well. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: What Flox is. From: Ron Lee Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 20:57:55 -0600 X-Message-Number: 17 Flox is often used on CORNERS to make a structural bond where glass meets at right angles. Ron Lee At 06:46 PM 7/2/99 -0700, you wrote: >R.W., > Flox is a mixture of epoxy and cotton Flock that is mixed >and creates a structural filler material. It is commonly used >on the trailing edges of fiberglass lay-ups, and used in the >sealing of the wing tanks per the plans. > I have made flox from both Hexcell Structural Adheasive (Like T-88), >and Aeropoxy (Used for fiberglass work). In the case of my wing tanks >I mixed it with Aeropoxy, and smeared it into the tank seam with a >tongue depressor. > > >R.W. Moore wrote: >> >> I have cut open my wing gas tank to stop the leaks. What do I use and where >> do I buy it. The leaks are next to the main spar. I read in ACP catalog the >> a sealer for about $14. 00 a Quart. I do not know about FLOX what is it and >> where do you buy it? >> RWMoore >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: KR-net users group >> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 12:19 PM >> Subject: [kr-net] Re: T-88 or E-Z Poxy to glue Aluminum to wood >> >> > In a message dated 6/30/99 9:21:46 AM Mountain Daylight Time, >> > rossy@teleport.com writes: >> > >> > << Michael Taglieri wrote: >> > > >> > > >This Floxing of the aluminum mounts is news to me. I have made >> > > >FLOX from both Aeropoxy, and Hexcel Structural Adhesive (Similar >> > > >to T-88). The T88, will be thicker, but will work. I found using >> > > >the structural adhesive easier to use for small batches as it is >> > > >> > > If I remember correctly, the aluminum mounts were first suggested in an >> > > old Newsletter (perhaps by Lance Niebuhr??) following a firewall >> failure >> > > after a hard landing. That article recommended both bolting and >> > > epoxying. Eventually the idea made it into the plans but mentioned >> only >> > > bolting. >> > > >> > > This either means (A) Rand-Robinson did careful stress analysis and >> > > determined that epoxying was not needed, or (B) another slapdash error >> in >> > > the plans. >> > > >> > > Mike Taglieri >> > > >> >> > I have had a fair amount of experience with glueing aluminum, and unless >> the >> > surface >> > is prepared properly,ie FPL etch or Boeing anodize process, the aluminum >> will >> > seperate from the rest of the assy. after a while. So I think the glue was >> > deleted because it would seperate after a short time anyway. ps I know >> some >> > of you have had these joints hold for a "long time" but a lot of Industry >> > experience by a lot of companies says unless properly preped, they won't >> > hold. >> > Bill Higdon >> > Willard561@aol.com >> > >> > >> > >> > --- >> > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net >> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com >> > >> > >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ronlee@pcisys.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Vacation? From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 20:18:17 -0700 X-Message-Number: 18 Well KRnetters I have been gone on vacation for a week. Not to my surprise I had 160 messages when I fired up the PC. Lots of cool new web sites and Mark Langfords bird is looking nothing short of freaking spectacular!!! Sounds like Haris made lots of progress out at Chino while I was gone too. I bet when I open the hanger door, truck loads of foam and spruce dust will fill my eyes. :o) I am sure glad to hear that no one was run over by the dork firing up his engine for the first time. Yeah I know, it can happen to anyone but someone should have walked over an punched that guy in the nose as hard as they could after it was all over! As for t-88 and or EZpoxy adhering to wood, I have used both and when tested the wood grain ALWAYS pulled out long before the epoxy let lose of the aluminum part. Keep in mind you are just using the flox mixture as a "bedding" compound which only creates the perfect fit. The brackets should be held in place by bolts and not the flox mixture alone. As for the vacation we rented a motorhome and made a loop, departing Aliso Viejo, up to Merced, over to Yosemite, back around to June Lake, over to Mammoth, down through Mojave (saw a stealth bomber flying the pattern as we went by Edwards, very cool) and back home. Took our time (6 days) and really enjoyed the scenery. Out to the hanger tomorrow to regroup and make a plan for the month of July. Can you believe its July already?!? -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Fwd: RE: Contactable Quotes From: boggyd@webtv.net (D Bogdan) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 23:22:06 -0500 (CDT) X-Message-Number: 19 --WebTV-Mail-21798-657 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit --WebTV-Mail-21798-657 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.99) by postoffice-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from usracimi.scj.com (mx1.scj.com [32.97.156.131]) by mailsorter-102-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id HAA00815 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by usracimi.scj.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <31LGAHM5>; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:51:05 -0500 Message-ID: <7D8BF44E8E84D2119B190001FA7EA16D013225E2@usracimf.scj.com> From: "Andersen, Donna M." To: "'RG Blocks'" , Gene Zabler Cc: Warren&Donna Levin , Tom Christensen , Tim Zuck , Tim Craft <102447.3432@compuserve.com>, Steve Myers , Steve Buss , Sid Baumann , Sheila Fosholdt , "Sean G. Dwyer" , Rob Hyatt , Quentin Rench , Phill Unti , Paul Johns , Mark Bass , Kris Harvey , "Welch, Kenneth J." , Jim Mc Chesney , Jim Hantschel , Jill and Skip Gdsis , Jerry Cain , Henry Sollman , George J Snamiske , Gene Zabler , Eric&Jacinta Woelbing , Edward Schaut , "Andersen, Donna M." , Don Engstrom , David Nelson , David Mann , David DeGroot , Dave Eberle , Dave Bogden , Bob Hyatt , Barbara Rench , Adele M Helmle , Thomas Szysmanski Subject: RE: Contactable Quotes Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:51:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" As we near the 4th of July, and have an opportunity to celebrate the founding of our country, I think we should ignore the minor flaws of great American -- Al Gore -- and concentrate instead on finding his speech writer. -----Original Message----- From: RG Blocks [mailto:rgblocks@rli-net.net] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 1:07 PM To: Gene Zabler Cc: Warren&Donna Levin; Tom Christensen; Tim Zuck; Tim Craft; Steve Myers; Steve Buss; Sid Baumann; Sheila Fosholdt; Sean G. Dwyer; Rob Hyatt; Quentin Rench; Phill Unti; Paul Johns; Mark Bass; Kris Harvey; Kenneth Welch; Jim Mc Chesney; Jim Hantschel; Jill and Skip Gdsis; Jerry Cain; Henry Sollman; George J Snamiske; Gene Zabler; Eric&Jacinta Woelbing; Edward Schaut; Donna Anderson; Don Engstrom; David Nelson; David Mann; David DeGroot; Dave Eberle; Dave Bogden; Bob Hyatt; Barbara Rench; Adele M Helmle; Thomas Szysmanski Subject: Contactable Quotes We need to find one person in Chapter 838 with the ability to phrase a short article (one page or less preferred in 12 point so I can read it).... Here, are a few items that are a bit too short .. Rog Pearls of wisdom from our vice-president. "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." Al Gore "Democrats understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."-- Vice President Al Gore "Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts."-- Vice President Al Gore "Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, & water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."-- Vice President Al Gore, 8/11/94 "The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century." -- Vice President Al Gore, 9/15/95 "I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change."-- Vice President Al Gore, 5/22/98 "One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, & that one word is 'to be prepared'."-- Vice President Al Gore, 12/6/93 "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things." Vice President Al Gore, 11/30/96 "I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."-- Vice President Al Gore "The future will be better tomorrow."-- Vice President Al Gore "We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world."-- Vice President Al Gore, 9/21/97 "People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."-- Vice President Al Gore "I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."-- Vice President Al Gore to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93 "We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe." -- Vice President Al Gore "Public speaking is very easy." Vice President Al Gore to reporters in 10/95 "I am not part of the problem. I am a Democrat." Vice President Al Gore "A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." -- Vice President Al Gore "When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killing in L.A., my answer has been direct & simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame. --Al Gore "Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it."-- Vice President Al Gore, 5/20/96 "We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."-- Vice President Al Gore, 9/22/97 "For NASA, space is still a high priority." Vice President Al Gore, 9/5/93 "Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."-- Vice President Al Gore, 9/18/95 "The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Al Gore may or may not make."-- Vice President Al Gore "We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made." --Vice President Al Gore "It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." -- Vice President Al Gore "[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system." -- Vice President Al Gore AND, OF COURSE, (TO ALL USERS OF THE INTERNET), THE ALL TIME FAVORITE QUOTATION OF MR. AL GORE: "As many of you know, I was very instrumental in the founding of the Internet" AL Gore to Katie Couric 3/99 --WebTV-Mail-21798-657-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: something to think about. From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:26:55 -0700 X-Message-Number: 20 On Fri, 02 Jul 1999 07:48:39 -0400 "Wayne DeLisle Sr." writes: >>From: "Jack Lockamy" >> >>The member pulled the RV-6A out of the hangar to conduct his first >engine run. The plane is approx. 98% complete needing only paint and >few finishing details. The member started the aircraft PRIOR TO >SECURING IT TO A TIEDOWN! (Do you see where this is going?) The >engine immediately roared to life AT FULL THROTTLE.... member was in >the aircraft (seats had not been installed yet....) and was unable to >stop the engine or aircraft! Another chapter member present >attempted to "hold" the left wing and aircraft from moving forward >into a parked aircraft on the ramp. The assisting member was "thrown" >to the ground after the RV-6A made a hard left turn and RAN INTO A >HANGAR, TORE THROUGH THE HANGAR barely missing four other parked >aircraft prior to a sudden stoppage of the engine! >> Most accidents like this are created by a long series of mistakes and oversights. Now, do you suppose this guy bothered to have his local tech counselor or any other competent mechanic lay his eyes on this engine installation before he took it to the airport to do it's damage? Somehow, I suspect not. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Arlington Airshow From: mjdotson@webtv.net (Monty Dotson) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:27:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Message-Number: 21 I'm planning on flying up to the show on Sat. the 10th , I would like to meet any KR enthusiasts. Does anyone have any plans for gathering together at the show ? The last time I attended the event ,they didn't seem to really have much regard placing types of aircraft catagoricaly. I suppose it's a first come , first tie down spot situation. Thank you for any response. Monty D. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RR wing skins From: HAshraf@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 02:36:43 EDT X-Message-Number: 22 Hi Guys, I am ready to start building the outboard front spars soon. I plan to use RR skins and was wondering that whether the spars have to be tapered both ways. I remember that we had a thread about this six months ago. Thanks Haris ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Ready, fire, aim From: BSHADR@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 03:01:44 EDT X-Message-Number: 23 In a message dated 7/2/99 9:44:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20 jscott.pilot@juno.com writes: << Now, do you suppose this guy bothered to have his local tech counselor or any other competent mechanic lay his eyes on this engine installation before he took it to the airport to do it's damage? Somehow, I suspect not. >> Jeff (and everyone else): I'll do you one better. Chapter 723 (Camarillo) has over 300 members and=20 likely 20-30 tech counselors. Two BIG chapter built hangers and no less tha= n=20 7-10 projects in the hangers being readied for first flights at any given=20 time. The place is crawling with bright folks every day of the week - not=20 just weekends. I think the word is complacency. Some times a builder start= s=20 to believe their own chapter's publicity=85like when someone gets fired at=20 work, it takes an incident such as this run-a-way RV6A to get everyone payin= g=20 close attention again. I hope we all will consider the incident and learn=20 from the misfortune of others (and not repeat history). Here is another one to keep your thinking sober: <> Do think safe, plan safe, act safe=85None of us like these stories - but the= y=20 sure give you pause, not a bad result me thinks. Randy Stein Soviet Monica, CA --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com