From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 12:43 AM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: August 02, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Monday, August 02, 1999. 1. Re: taxes... 2. Re: Troy's Plane 3. MAIDEN FLIGHT!!! 4. Re: Oshkosh Update 5. Hood time. LONG 6. Re: Oshkosh KR 7. oshkosh 8. Re: Canopy repair 9. Re: oshkosh 10. Re: oshkosh 11. 2180 engine 12. Re: 2180 engine 13. Re: 2180 engine 14. Re: oshkosh 15. RE: Engine Type 16. Re: oshkosh 17. Re: New Airfoil special for KR? 18. Re: 2180 engine 19. Re: oshkosh 20. Re: 2180 engine 21. Re: 2180 engine 22. Re: oshkosh 23. Static port location 24. Re: 2180 engine 25. RE: Engine Type 26. Re: New Airfoil special for KR? 27. Re: oshkosh 28. Re: 2180 engine 29. Re: oshkosh 30. Re: oshkosh 31. Re: Static port location 32. Oshkosh 33. Re: 2180 engine 34. Re: oshkosh 35. Re: oshkosh 36. KR / Custom Planes Issue 37. Re: oshkosh 38. Re: KR / Custom Planes Issue 39. Re: Troy's Plane 40. Re: oshkosh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: taxes... From: "R.W. Moore" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 05:04:58 -0400 X-Message-Number: 1 Georgia does tax my "NOT A AIRPLANE" yet. For a long time, untill we got this theif of a tax collector we had a understanding when the plane flys they could tax me. But that is not what it is now I pay around $25.00. They too want to look at my plane and I will not let them. R. W. Moore N115RM ----- Original Message ----- From: TONY WRIGHT To: KR-net users group Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 9:03 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: taxes... > mark, > > the state of Michigan and I have been arguing for 2 years on taxation of an > airplane that is not completed nor near ready to fly, and for sales taxes on > an airplane where many parts were purchased in this state and sales tax has > been paid. we've also been arguing about paying sales tax on parts that > were purchased mail-order and the mail order company has no obligation to > the state of Michigan. I sent final letter last week, and I'll let you know > how it gets resolved. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Langford > To: KR-net users group > Date: Saturday, July 31, 1999 12:11 AM > Subject: [kr-net] taxes... > > > >Well, this is off the subject, but I'm just letting you know that if you > >register early, this little pleasure awaits you too. And it's been kinda > >quiet since I slapped everybody's wrist with the Netiquette post anyway. > > > >Some of you old timers may remember a few years ago when I whined about the > >state of Alabama wanting me to pay taxes on my airplane that didn't exist > >yet. That event was triggered by my early registration in order to lock in > >my tail number (as if anybody else would want N56ML for some reason). > After > >I explained that it wasn't an airplane yet, they said "fine, then send us > >all the receipts for everything you've ever bought to construct it from out > >of state, and an update each month". > > > >My answer to that was never buy anything out of state after that. But now > >the COUNTY wants to know how much my project is worth so they can tax me on > >it. I'm just a little peaved that they're going to tax a pile of wood that > >may some day be an airplane. Any of you guys ever paid taxes on a car > >you've got jacked up on blocks? I didn't think so. > > > >I'm sure that Alabama isn't the only state that does this, but when you > >register a homebuilt here, the state immediately wants you to pay taxes on > >it, just like if you were regestering a new car. > > > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: wrightt@tir.com > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwmoore@alltel.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Troy's Plane From: Jim Faughn Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 06:22:26 -0500 X-Message-Number: 2 In my plane, I never use the full deflection in flight. However, I will use the full deflection when taking off and landing. This occurs at the slowest speeds when I am trying to raise the tail and see over the nose. When taking off and the rudder has gained authority, I will push the stick all the way forward and bring the nose up as soon as airspeed allows. When landing. I typically hold the tail up until I am out of elevator and then lower the tail to the ground. This does two things, first it lets me see over the nose and second it kills lift until I either want it (take off) or out of it (landing). (Note this all changes in a crosswind.) I think the nose dragger may not need as much elevator unless you use a soft field. Then it would be the opposite of mine. Mark Langford wrote: > > He just shortened it to where the first outboard hinge is. I was skeptical, > but it certainly seems to be working. >>>> Troy and I put out piloting minds (that's all we got, we aint engineers) together one night and came to the conclusion that the elevator on the KR2 was too large. One thing we looked at hard was the fact that the KR never uses full deflection in any phase of flight. ------ Micheal Mims -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net (314) 652-7659 or Cell (314) 346-4038 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: MAIDEN FLIGHT!!! From: Jim Faughn Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 06:30:28 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3 Congratulations Mike!!! I thought I would expand on our phone conversation for others to verify what my initial thoughts were on your speed & vsi errors. As Mike described his static system, we got into the location of his static port. It is below his stub wing. Evidently the hole is located on the aft side of the pick up tube. My opinion was that this was in the slip stream and creating a vacuum which would cause the high airspeed reading (180 mph on an 1835) and the strange vsi readings. My static source is also on the stub, however I have two holes. One is on each side of the pick-up tube. That's why I suggested that he just pull the static line off and vent it to the cockpit. I know that that will fix some of the problems, however it won't be accurate. I think the accuracy will depend on the amount of pressure that the cockpit is building up inside of it or if it is negative pressure. Others on this list may be able to enhance the explination. Again, Congratulations!!! -------------- I have talked to Jim Faughn and I realized I made a mistake in the description of my Rate of Climb guage, it is also on the static air source with the altimeter. He said I may have a problem with my static air source and that's why my air speed is reading high and my altimeter and rate of climb is bouncing around. He advised me to remove the static line from the back of the dash so it"s getting it"s static source from inside the plane and to go fly and see what happens. What do you guys think? Mike Garbez -- Jim Faughn N8931JF St. Louis, MO mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net (314) 652-7659 or Cell (314) 346-4038 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Oshkosh Update From: "Ronald R. Eason" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:02:55 -0700 X-Message-Number: 4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BEDCB5.0BA05200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I thought I would pass along a little update regarding this years >Oshkosh Fly-in. > >I spent the day up there yesterday. The day started out fairly >miserable - the temps were near 100 with a dewpoint in the 80s. Not >one KR made it this year. When it's this hot, vendors don't really >want to show you stuff, pilots aren't all that thrilled to talk about >their planes, and in general people develop a cow-like mentality - >they all crowd together in any place where's there's a square foot of >shade and just stand there sweating. > I was up their also and saw a temp gage indicating 112 Deg. F. I checked with aircraft registration and ONE KR2 was registered. I saw it near the main entrance next to the RV's. It was a good representation. KRRon ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BEDCB5.0BA05200 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Ronald R. Eason Sr..vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Ronald R. Eason Sr..vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Eason Sr.;Ronald;R. FN:Ronald R. Eason Sr. ORG:J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd.;Engineering TITLE:C.E.O., President TEL;WORK;VOICE:816-468-4091 TEL;HOME;VOICE:816-468-4425 TEL;PAGER;VOICE:816-989-9692 TEL;WORK;FAX:816-468-5465 TEL;HOME;FAX:816-468-5465 ADR;WORK:;jrlkc@mindspring.com;7333 North = Brooklyn;Gladstone,;MO.;64118-2329;U.S.A. LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:jrlkc@mindspring.com=3D0D=3D0A7333= North Brooklyn=3D0D=3D0AGladstone,, MO. 64118-232=3D 9=3D0D=3D0AU.S.A. ADR;HOME:;;7333 N. Brooklyn;Gladstone,;MO.;64118-2329;U.S.A. LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:7333 N. = Brooklyn=3D0D=3D0AGladstone,, MO. 64118-2329=3D0D=3D0AU.S.A. URL: URL:http://jrl-engineering.com EMAIL;INTERNET:ron@jrl-engineering.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jrlkc@mindspring.com REV:19990802T140255Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BEDCB5.0BA05200-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Hood time. LONG From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:14:07 EDT X-Message-Number: 5 In a message dated 8/1/99 11:24:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mikemims@home.com writes: << I think the safety pilot gets to log the hours as PIC and you (the goggle wearing pilot) log sim instrument time. >> You the pilot still log it as PIC, and sim instrument time. The only time you cannot log it as PIC is if you are not instrument rated and are flying on a filed instrument flight plan. In this case you can still log it, just not as PIC. Under instrument rules you must have 6 approaches per six months with holding patterns to stay current. If you are going to undertake hood flying, which I strongly recommend, do it on a regular basis. It will make you a better pilot, which is what we all should be aiming to be. Once again I realize that this is not KR so delete this now so as not to hear the sermon:-). Other than flying Young Eagles, I probably haven't seen the ground in the last 20 hours of flying other than breakout on a variety of VOR/NDB/ILS/LOC approaches. Let me give you my thoughts on hood flying. Start out with a safety pilot you feel comfortable with who can give you pointers without sitting there white knuckled. Explain to him what you intend to do prior to the flight and what you expect out of him. Go over what he will see and when he should step in. Be sure and explain to him that his primary job is to observe for other aircraft and for the safe operation of the aircraft. You eyes are in the cockpit, his should be outside. Begin with going under the hood prior to your turn on climbout and proceed to a practice area, turning to a heading and up to a prior agreed upon altitude. Hold that heading and altitude. Start with some standard rate 2 minute turns, 360 degrees to both sides with a rollout to your initial heading and maintaining your altitude. Once you feel comfortable with this proceed to some steep turns, paying particular attention to the altitude. Remember here, that if you decrease elevator pressure, you will address that "spiraling" affect. There's usually some concern about these steep turns, but they are really nothing and can be done quite easily. Once again do them both ways and maintain that altitude. Remember, standard rate turns are your objective in IMC, but you need to have the ability, and confidence, to crank those wings over if you need to. Move on to slow flight and decend to an altitude using 500 feet per minute as your objective. Next do decents and climbs to an altitude but with turns to a particular heading during the altitude change, both to the right and left. Move on into doing power on and power off stalls. Be honest here, how many of you have been in that stall envelope here lately? If you, as a VFR pilot, fly into IMC the tendency is to reduce power, you need to get the feel for airplane in this area. Now that you've got the feel for your airplane move on into unusual attitudes, you've got to be able to save your ass. The two unusual attitudes you want to address are the climbing turn and the JFK classic, decending right hand turn. This is where those steep turns you just did come into play, you may have to get yourself out of one. After you do these with full instruments, try them without your gyros using your altimeter, compass, turn coordinater, airspeed indicator. It really is not hard. Now have your safety pilot work as the controller and have him give you a radar assisted approach. Use standard rate turns until he advises you that you are on final, then use 1/2 standard with not readback. This is where your slow flight decending turns to a heading come into play. Have your safety pilot make all radio calls over UNICOM and have him remove your hood at 500 feet on short final. You are going to have to dump everything to get down so get with it. The biggest thing I can say is, have a good safety pilot and go up with a PLAN. Don't leave anything out of your plan. If you don't feel comfortable with something don't do it at that time but be sure and go back up and ease into it. I simply feel you must have the ability to safely perform the maneuvers to both allow you to stay in the air in IMC, and to get you safely back on the ground. These are instructor tips, only my thoughts on the matter. Everything I've just mentioned can be done in a good hour of flying and should be practiced regularly, whatever that is in your book. You are going to be working your ass off and you'll probably be a little tired when done. Go back up and do it again some time afterwards and it will surprise you how much better you do it. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. No flames accepted. OH BTW..........all rooms are booked up for the gathering. Should be a great one. I have the numbers of some local hotels if you weren't able to get a room. E-mail me off the KRnet. Signed over the 172 to the insurance company after the "car crash"......check's in the mail. Man my chest really hurts now from thumping it:-), where's some water....I think I'll give that "parting" thing a go.......................... Dana Overall 1999 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Oshkosh KR From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:37:29 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 I, too, saw David's KR-2 at OSH. Talked with him a short while. Runs a Revmaster with the Dual Head Bendix mag. He was totally unaware of the Gathering this year in KY. I told him particulars, but didn't look as tho he was interested because of the traveling distance. Nice looking KR, tho, with low profile canopy. Ed Janssen >first KR2. David Christenson had his there and spent 4 hours next to plane hoping >to talk to him. never saw David but met 3 others building krs with 2 almost done. >None of them on KRNET. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: oshkosh From: Aubrey Dunham Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:38:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Message-Number: 7 Netters: I just got back from Oshkosh, and was very surprised at the (basically) non-existent turnout of KR-2's. I talked to Dave Christensen (N612DC) for a bit. Nice guy with a well-built plane. I'm still trying to decide whether or not to build a KR-2, so I have a few questions. Why was the turnout so low? Are all of you guys saving your vacation time for the gathering, or is the KR-2 just not a good x/c airplane? I was astounded at the number of RV's there, but very disappointed at the low number of KR's. This was my first 'in-person' view of a KR. I have to say, that thing is TINY! I didn't realize how small a 2-seater airplane could be. Please don't flame me, I'm not trying to insult the KR-2 in any way. I'm just looking for some good info on it. I'll reserve my judgment on this airplane until I hear from you guys, but the low turnout says something (I just don't know what it says). -Aubrey Dunham San Antonio, TX aldunham@yahoo.com _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Canopy repair From: WGLIDE78@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:45:45 EDT X-Message-Number: 8 In regard to securing canopy--I put 16p nil in vise grips and heated with torch then just melted through canopy s many places as required then used a pointed tip grinder bit in drill to dress up the holes. Remember to make holes a little bigger than normal then use small washers on both sides. Worked great for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Krwr1@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:03:43 EDT X-Message-Number: 9 In a message dated 8/2/99 8:40:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, aldunham@yahoo.com writes: << erson' view of a KR. I have to say, that thing is TINY! I didn't realize how small a 2-seater airplane could be. Please don't flame me, I'm not trying to insult the KR-2 in any way. I'm just looking for some good info on it. I'll reserve my judgment on this airplane until I hear from you guys, but the low turnout says something (I just don't know what it says). >> The airplane has been around for about 30 years, might be the reason . Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: "Mark Langford" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:42:04 -0500 X-Message-Number: 10 >I'll reserve my judgment on > this airplane until I hear from you guys, but the low turnout says > something (I just don't know what it says). The old timers may want to elaborate on this, but a lot of the "problem" with Oshkosh is that the KR pilots felt like they were slighted one year, and as any RV builder will be quick to point out, KRs are generally looked down upon by "real" aircraft builders. KRs just don't get much respect at Oshkosh, but they sure get a lot at the Gatherings! I will probably fly mine to Oshkosh as often as possible, just because I like to go, and it's the fastest way I have to get there (once it's built). Bottom line with Oshkosh is that many KR pilots are boycotting, for one reason or another... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 2180 engine From: smithr Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 15:12:37 -0400 X-Message-Number: 11 I have not yet chosen my engine for my KR2S but have considered many. Cost is definitely a consideration. I am not trying to set any speed records. Just want a nice cruise. I would like to get at least 80 hp but cant quite get that out of a 2180 and I would like to avoid the high cost and unprovenness (read that as broken crankshaft) of the type 4. Don't want the weight of watercooled or the reduction box. So my question is: will the 2180 put out enough HP and be reliable enough to nicely power a KR2S (with elec starter) that has been built light? I hear that its a very bad thing to get behind the power curve with a KR so I wouldn't want to be underpowered. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Project status: boat stage, spars finished, hstab/elev being foamed. Bob Smith , Albany NY ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: KMcke19117@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:16:32 EDT X-Message-Number: 12 The 2180 is what the KR2-S was designed around. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: SClay10106@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:06:16 EDT X-Message-Number: 13 i did notice the 2180 was said to be for a kr2 but in the specs the diference between the 1830 and 2180 in weight is about a few pounds and about 10 hp. My thinking was that the cruise speed is supposed to be 180 but most planes whne complete dont make the 180 mark so id rather go with a bigger engine. Just because you have a little extra power doesnt mean you have to use it all ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Steven Eberhart Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:59:41 -0500 (CDT) X-Message-Number: 14 On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Mark Langford wrote: > >I'll reserve my judgment on > > this airplane until I hear from you guys, but the low turnout says > > something (I just don't know what it says). > > The old timers may want to elaborate on this, but a lot of the "problem" > with Oshkosh is that the KR pilots felt like they were slighted one year, > and as any RV builder will be quick to point out, KRs are generally looked > down upon by "real" aircraft builders. KRs just don't get much respect at > Oshkosh, but they sure get a lot at the Gatherings! I will probably fly > mine to Oshkosh as often as possible, just because I like to go, and it's > the fastest way I have to get there (once it's built). Bottom line with > Oshkosh is that many KR pilots are boycotting, for one reason or another... > The KR-2 IS a small airplane. Its small appearance, IMO, is exagerated by its short landing gear (conventional gear). A KR-2S on tri gear looks like a more substantial airplane. Dean Collette is on the right track with his extended length conventional gear legs and modified tail wheel structure. One of the prettiest airplanes you will see is the KR-2S "trailer queen" tri-gear that drives to the gatherings. It really looks like a much larger airplane with more pleasing proportions. A widened KR-2S with Deans landing gear, a Dragon-Fly canopy and the new KRnet wing, made from TET templates, would - IMHO, make a beautiful airplane. Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com THE WING FLIES! - http://www.newtech.com/nlf for info on the new, flight tested, KRnet airfoils. Good job KRnet, you can be proud of your contribution to Sport Aviation. One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author All information, in any of my aircraft related correspondence, is strictly food for thought requiring additional, qualified, engineering analysis. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Engine Type From: Rob v/d Merwe Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 23:09:02 +0200 X-Message-Number: 15 -----Original Message----- From: SClay10106@aol.com [SMTP:SClay10106@aol.com] Sent: 02 August 1999 05:34 To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Engine Type I am looking into engines the KR-1 needs the engine, cowling, and top deck. I dont understand all these type VW engines type 1-4.i want to put a 2180 vw engine into thr kr-1 might this be to big? And if i rebuild the engine myself what if any modifications have to be made to put it into a plane. Hi All I would suggest is that if you dont know the diffs 1-4 then I would suggest you give the guys at great plains a ring, don't do the rebuild yourself, but if you have to then put the donk in a beach buggy. However type 1& 3 are beetle motors, 1being very early "old". They range from the 1100 1200 1300 1500 1600 and are light, the standard mod is to stretch them (1600) to 1835 by just using bigger pistons ( toyota has just the one) but can be taken all the way to 2180 with a long throw crank, which is usually stroked and normally has smaller juornals, hence compramising the reliability of the motor. Take a 1835 (60hp) for your krrrrrrrrrr.Type 4 are the motors from the vw bus. The block is aly and is heavier and bigger. These motors are 1700 1800 2000 (65hp). the std mod is to go up to 2400, same idea as the 1600 but can with a new crank go 2600 (95hp)or if you are a little hungry go as far as 3100, don't think there is much meat left. Cheers Rob infratig@global.co.za --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: infratig@global.co.za To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Rob v/d Merwe Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 23:36:53 +0200 X-Message-Number: 16 -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [SMTP:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: 02 August 1999 08:42 To: KR-net users group Subject: [kr-net] Re: oshkosh >I'll reserve my judgment on > this airplane until I hear from you guys, but the low turnout says > something (I just don't know what it says). The old timers may want to elaborate on this, but a lot of the "problem" with Oshkosh is that the KR pilots felt like they were slighted one year, and as any RV builder will be quick to point out, KRs are generally looked down upon by "real" aircraft builders. KRs just don't get much respect at Oshkosh, but they sure get a lot at the Gatherings! I will probably fly mine to Oshkosh as often as possible, just because I like to go, and it's the fastest way I have to get there (once it's built). Bottom line with Oshkosh is that many KR pilots are boycotting, for one reason or another... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford Another reason is the serious rash I have experienced from the crowds prodding and pawing, forget about the yob who lets his todler stand on the NO STEP with hob nail boots to leave a greasynoseprinticescreampawprintandscratch in your polished conopy, MIND MY PLAIN IT IS MINE AND I AM PROUD OF IT . Been to 5 EAA conventions in my krrrrrrr and I love going, just have to put up with the rash. Rob infratig@global.co.za Ps. KR's are real homebuilts, not like RV's --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: infratig@global.co.za To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New Airfoil special for KR? From: Bud Martin Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 18:22:52 -0600 X-Message-Number: 17 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F8C50DB2D7D3E5CA03B11AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What are the callouts for the wing section? i.e., a graphic of the parameters for creating ribs? --------------F8C50DB2D7D3E5CA03B11AE0 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="budm303.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Bud Martin Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="budm303.vcf" begin:vcard n:; tel;home:3034200940 tel;work:8006490875 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.command.org org:Command Company adr:;;7172 Swadley Ct;Arvada;CO;80004-1253;USA version:2.1 email;internet:budm303@earthlink.net note;quoted-printable:USN/USAF (Ret.) BA/MS/Ph.D.=0D=0AAFA, AOPA, AWA, EAA, CAW, ESP ...=0D=0Aa fine cauldron of alphabet soup!=0D=0AWriter/Editor/Publisher ...=0D=0ACommASMEL&S-I, AGI fn:Bud Martin end:vcard --------------F8C50DB2D7D3E5CA03B11AE0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:08:03 -0700 X-Message-Number: 18 On Mon, 02 Aug 1999 15:12:37 -0400 smithr writes: >I have not yet chosen my engine for my KR2S but have considered many. Cost is >definitely a consideration. I am not trying to set any speed records. Just want a >nice cruise. I would like to get at least 80 hp but cant quite get that out of a >2180 and I would like to avoid the high cost and unprovenness (read that as broken >crankshaft) of the type 4. Don't want the weight of watercooled or the reduction >box. So my question is: will the 2180 put out enough HP and be reliable enough to >nicely power a KR2S (with elec starter) that has been built light? I hear that its >a very bad thing to get behind the power curve with a KR so I wouldn't want to be >underpowered. > >Any suggestions would be appreciated. > >Project status: boat stage, spars finished, hstab/elev being foamed. > >Bob Smith , Albany NY > > Bob, Not to put down other powerplants, but why not shop around a bit and buy yourself a small Continental. The bargains are there if you put the word out and watch for them. My C-85 was purchased for $2500 with all accessories, ready to bolt on and fly. It's pretty hard to build a VW for that. I have a line on a very low time O-200 for $7K. A bit more than a VW, but with only 40 hours on it, you'd have to fly many, many years and wear out a couple of VWs before you'd have to do anything serious to the Continental. In the long run, the $$ always seem to come out about the same regardless of the powerplant. Might as well pick out the one that suites you best and go with it. The drawback to a low time Continental is the larger $$ up front to get it bolted onto your airframe. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:25:01 -0700 X-Message-Number: 19 On Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Aubrey Dunham writes: >Netters: >I just got back from Oshkosh, and was very surprised at the (basically) >non-existent turnout of KR-2's. I talked to Dave Christensen (N612DC) >for a bit. Nice guy with a well-built plane. >I'm still trying to decide whether or not to build a KR-2, so I have a >few questions. Why was the turnout so low? Are all of you guys saving >your vacation time for the gathering, or is the KR-2 just not a good >x/c airplane? I was astounded at the number of RV's there, but very >disappointed at the low number of KR's. >This was my first 'in-person' view of a KR. I have to say, that thing >is TINY! I didn't realize how small a 2-seater airplane could be. >Please don't flame me, I'm not trying to insult the KR-2 in any way. >I'm just looking for some good info on it. I'll reserve my judgment on >this airplane until I hear from you guys, but the low turnout says >something (I just don't know what it says). > >-Aubrey Dunham >San Antonio, TX >aldunham@yahoo.com Quite frankly, from my point of view nobody has convinced me yet that fighting the Oshkosh crowds is a necessary trip. Many KR builders are paying and building as they go and usually aren't folks that are real long on cash or vacation time for spending a week camping in the Wisconson rain. I usually attend Copperstate and am hoping to make the Texas fly-in this year. During a three day fly-in, it is very difficult to get away from the plane. FWIW, my KR usually draws as much attention at a fly-in as a whole row or RVs. I think you'll find that looking at mine, it doesn't look nearly so small as most KRs. Surprise! The cockpit is exactly the stock KR-2 dimensions. The difference is the longer cowl, longer gear, longer tail and longer (Diehl) wings. You should try to make an appointment with Bobby Muse over in Wimberly, TX (and on this list) to take a peek at his KR. Bobby lives over near you and you'll see after looking at his how every KR is as different as the builder that creates it, while they can all also be very nice airplanes. No cookie cutter production RVs here. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: Bud Martin Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 18:35:41 -0600 X-Message-Number: 20 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AF2640C3018866BEF8DD9897 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit May I suggest the Mazda13B? 200 hp at a weight equivalent to your horizontally opposed auto engines. A quarter-century ago, one of the challengers for Reno was the DG-1, using two rotaries developing 300 hp each. If I ever get around to building (my airframe of choice) a KR, it will be powered by Mazda. --------------AF2640C3018866BEF8DD9897 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="budm303.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Bud Martin Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="budm303.vcf" begin:vcard n:; tel;home:3034200940 tel;work:8006490875 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.command.org org:Command Company adr:;;7172 Swadley Ct;Arvada;CO;80004-1253;USA version:2.1 email;internet:budm303@earthlink.net note;quoted-printable:USN/USAF (Ret.) BA/MS/Ph.D.=0D=0AAFA, AOPA, AWA, EAA, CAW, ESP ...=0D=0Aa fine cauldron of alphabet soup!=0D=0AWriter/Editor/Publisher ...=0D=0ACommASMEL&S-I, AGI fn:Bud Martin end:vcard --------------AF2640C3018866BEF8DD9897-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: EveninBrz@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:49:20 EDT X-Message-Number: 21 In a message dated 8/2/1999 1:11:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, SClay10106@aol.com writes: << i did notice the 2180 was said to be for a kr2 but in the specs the diference between the 1830 and 2180 in weight is about a few pounds and about 10 hp. My thinking was that the cruise speed is supposed to be 180 but most planes whne complete dont make the 180 mark so id rather go with a bigger engine. Just because you have a little extra power doesnt mean you have to use it all >> Clay, Have you looked at the Corvair? 90 to 110 hp with a stock engine. Weight is about the same as a decked out 2180, or an 0-200. 0-200's have been put in KR2's so it will handle it. EveninBrz@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:53:58 -0700 X-Message-Number: 22 Aubrey Dunham wrote: > > Netters: > I just got back from Oshkosh, and was very surprised at the (basically) > non-existent turnout of KR-2's. >>> You guys need not be surprised at the low to no turnout of KRs at Osh. It has been this way for a LONG time. KR people feel like they are almost unwelcome there from what I gather. A few years back some KRs had gathered to do a fly-by in honor of Ken and I think one of the KRs crashed and burned. I think the guy had a heart attack or something but did that happen before or during the crash? Who knows? Who cares? Oshkosh is NOT the place to see KRs. It hasn't been for a while I doubt it will be for quite some time. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Static port location From: "garbez" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:10:04 -0500 X-Message-Number: 23 KR Netters I talked to a good A & P mechanic about the best place to put the static port. He advised me to ask the guys that are flying KR's because on productin aircraft they do alot of tests to determine the best location for it. So on the KR where is the air least likely to be disturbed? Mike Garbez N998MG Griswold IA msgtlg@netins.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 18:25:55 -0700 X-Message-Number: 24 Bud Martin wrote: > > May I suggest the Mazda13B? 200 hp at a weight equivalent to your > horizontally opposed auto engines.>>> You could suggest it but their track record stinks! -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Engine Type From: SClay10106@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:31:20 EDT X-Message-Number: 25 Hell maybe ill just pull the engine out of my camero and put it in my kr-1 300hp that would be a sight huh? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New Airfoil special for KR? From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 18:30:38 -0700 X-Message-Number: 26 Bud Martin wrote: > > What are the callouts for the wing section? i.e., a graphic of the parameters for > creating ribs? The answer to this question will cost you a little $$$. I think you may need to see Mark Langford or Steve Eberhart for this info. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:22:51 EDT X-Message-Number: 27 You tell them Jeff! Mine is slowly coming along. Am working on the interior upholstery and have made a little modification up in the area behind the seat. Will be finishing the canopy area soon. After that I will be painting it, finally. Don Clarke ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: "J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd." Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:40:09 -0700 X-Message-Number: 28 -----Original Message----- From: jscott.pilot@juno.com To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 5:24 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: 2180 engine > > >On Mon, 02 Aug 1999 15:12:37 -0400 smithr writes: >>I have not yet chosen my engine for my KR2S but have considered many. >Cost is >>definitely a consideration. I am not trying to set any speed records. >Just want a >>nice cruise. I would like to get at least 80 hp but cant quite get that >out of a >>2180 and I would like to avoid the high cost and unprovenness (read that >as broken >>crankshaft) of the type 4. Don't want the weight of watercooled or the >reduction >>box. So my question is: will the 2180 put out enough HP and be >reliable enough to >>nicely power a KR2S (with elec starter) that has been built light? I >hear that its >>a very bad thing to get behind the power curve with a KR so I wouldn't >want to be >>underpowered. >> >>Any suggestions would be appreciated. >> >>Project status: boat stage, spars finished, hstab/elev being foamed. >> >>Bob Smith , Albany NY >> >> >Bob, > >Not to put down other powerplants, but why not shop around a bit and buy >yourself a small Continental. The bargains are there if you put the word >out and watch for them. My C-85 was purchased for $2500 with all >accessories, ready to bolt on and fly. It's pretty hard to build a VW >for that. I have a line on a very low time O-200 for $7K. A bit more >than a VW, but with only 40 hours on it, you'd have to fly many, many >years and wear out a couple of VWs before you'd have to do anything >serious to the Continental. In the long run, the $$ always seem to come >out about the same regardless of the powerplant. Might as well pick out >the one that suites you best and go with it. The drawback to a low time >Continental is the larger $$ up front to get it bolted onto your >airframe. > >Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM >mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com >See N1213w construction and first flight at >http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm Take a look at a Jabiru, one is 80 H.P. weights the same, alittle price but not when you compare with Continentals, they also have a six cyl. 100-120 H.P. same weight as VW's. I am seriously considering them. I may have a VW for sale soon. KRRon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: "J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd." Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:46:57 -0700 X-Message-Number: 29 -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims To: KR-net users group Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 6:01 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: oshkosh >Aubrey Dunham wrote: >> >> Netters: >> I just got back from Oshkosh, and was very surprised at the (basically) >> non-existent turnout of KR-2's. >>> > >You guys need not be surprised at the low to no turnout of KRs at Osh. >It has been this way for a LONG time. KR people feel like they are >almost unwelcome there from what I gather. A few years back some KRs >had gathered to do a fly-by in honor of Ken and I think one of the KRs >crashed and burned. I think the guy had a heart attack or something but >did that happen before or during the crash? Who knows? Who cares? >Oshkosh is NOT the place to see KRs. It hasn't been for a while I doubt >it will be for quite some time. I think it says something, maybe a lot about attitudes. It is the place you learn about whats new and whats happening in aviation today. KRRon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: SkyHawk11@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:50:11 EDT X-Message-Number: 30 808BS almost made it . He got as far as Mo. when his brand new ValCom radio stuck all four feet in the air and died. He and his son landed but the radio was not repaiable with what they had. They turned around and flew back to Tx. They flew a total of 8 hours round trip and were very disappointed. Could not find a hand held at the little airport they landed at. 808BS 3mo old KR2S with 52 hours on it performed perfectly. Flying a VW engine 2300 CC. Submitted by SkyHawk11 as 808BS doesnt do internet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Static port location From: MARVIN MCCOY Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 07:56:35 -0700 X-Message-Number: 31 garbez wrote: > > KR Netters So on the KR where is the air least likely to be disturbed? > > --------------- I can't say for sure, but it seems like I read somewhere in the plans or maybe someplace else that the best place on the KR for the static ports was about half way back between the tail and the back of the seat, with one opening on each side of the fuselage and conected with a T fitting. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field ------------ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Oshkosh From: John Roffey Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 22:59:25 -0500 X-Message-Number: 32 Ever since the divorce between wood and glass and the acceptance of glass and the aversion to wood in aviation, the KR has been treated as a step child at a family picnic. Not many people know that Lance of Lancair built a KR and that was the impetus for his own design. The KR was the pioneer aircraft for composite construction with all the EZs Glassairs Dragonflys and Lancairs picking up on the technology. This is why you won't see many KRs at Oshkosh. Just not enough "GEE WIZZ" factor. There is nothing else you can build that will go as fast with out laying out big bucks for the kit. Build a KR2S John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 2180 engine From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 20:01:02 -0700 X-Message-Number: 33 "J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd." wrote: > > > Take a look at a Jabiru, one is 80 H.P. weights the same, alittle price but > not when you compare with Continentals, they also have a six cyl. 100-120 > H.P. same weight as VW's. I am seriously considering them. I may have a VW > for sale soon. > > I beg to differ Mr Ron. The Jabaru is outrageously priced! It is much more than most O-200s I have seen on the market. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 20:02:40 -0700 X-Message-Number: 34 "J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd." wrote: > > > I think it says something, maybe a lot about attitudes. It is the place you > learn about whats new and whats happening in aviation today. > > KRRon > I beg to differ once more. It is nothing more than a commercialized air event that has lost touch with grass roots aviation. You know, those folks that started the EAA, remember them? -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: "Mark Langford" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:13:47 -0500 X-Message-Number: 35 Mike wrote: > I beg to differ once more. It is nothing more than a commercialized air > event that has lost touch with grass roots aviation. You know, those > folks that started the EAA, remember them? I can't help but agree wholeheartedly, especially the concentration on warbirds, but you can't argue that there is no better place to find a massive concentration of innovative ideas regarding aircraft. I can only say that I'd rather spend a few days there than at work... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR / Custom Planes Issue From: Monet Laigo Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:14:54 -0700 X-Message-Number: 36 2,August 1999 Would anybody know which issue of Custom Planes the KR was evaluated? I just got my September issue today, but any mention of the KR from past issues draws a blank to me. The reason I ask is that I had seen Rich McCall's name printed on the Air Mail page (The very FIRST one !). Another famous KR Netter. CAVU, Monet ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 21:15:07 -0700 X-Message-Number: 37 Mark Langford wrote: > > I will probably fly mine to Oshkosh as often as possible, just because I like to go, and it's the fastest way I have to get there (once it's built). > You can bet your last strip of bacon that the Pig will lie upon the Oshkosh runways as many times as I can afford to go. Maybe not next year but the one after that for sure. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR / Custom Planes Issue From: Mike Mims Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 21:16:19 -0700 X-Message-Number: 38 Monet Laigo wrote: > > The reason I ask is that I had seen Rich McCall's > name printed on the Air Mail page (The very FIRST one !). > Another famous KR Netter. > > CAVU, > Monet I am in one of those issues but I don't know which one. It was about 6 months ago I think. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Filling and Sanding again! http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Mirror Site http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Troy's Plane From: Michael Taglieri Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:53:56 -0400 X-Message-Number: 39 >Troy and I put out piloting minds (that's all we got, we aint >engineers) together one night and came to the conclusion that the elevator on the >KR2 was too large. One thing we looked at hard was the fact that the >KR never uses full deflection in any phase of flight. ------ > >Micheal Mims How about recovering from a spin? I think I would want all the elevator I could get at such a time. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: oshkosh From: Michael Taglieri Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 02:11:50 -0400 X-Message-Number: 40 Probably the reason is that people go to the KR gathering instead. This is too bad, since it means that most of the KR's get seen only by people already into KR's. Mike Taglieri ><< erson' view of a KR. I have to say, that thing > is TINY! I didn't realize how small a 2-seater airplane could be. > Please don't flame me, I'm not trying to insult the KR-2 in any way. > I'm just looking for some good info on it. I'll reserve my judgment on > this airplane until I hear from you guys, but the low turnout says > something (I just don't know what it says). ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com