From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 11:12 PM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: October 16, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Saturday, October 16, 1999. 1. Re: Paul's KR 2. Re: Triaxial cloth and such 3. Re: Triaxial cloth and such 4. Re: Triaxial cloth and such 5. Re: Gathering Forum video deal 6. Re: A star is born: again 7. Re: Triaxial cloth and such 8. Re: wing seam covers 9. Re: Continuing Engine Selection 10. Re: Continuing Engine Selection 11. Re: Triaxial cloth and such 12. For the weight watchers 13. Project update 14. : West System Epoxy Physical Properties 15. Re: Triaxial cloth and such 16. The west system 17. Re: Triaxial cloth and such 18. Re: Triaxial cloth and such 19. Re: The west system 20. Re: Triaxial cloth and such 21. Re: wing seam covers 22. Re: Resins etc. 23. Re: Continuing Engine Selection 24. Re: Holman & Building a plane in 30 days 25. Re: make vertical stab off the plane? 26. ** Corrupt Digests ** -- Admin 27. Re: wing seam covers Aluminum strips 28. Re: How to setup a new mail server. 29. Re: Sterling Silver KR WINGS 30. Epoxy Strength .... 31. Re: For the weight watchers 32. Moving... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Paul's KR From: "Parley Byington" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:44:21 -0700 X-Message-Number: 1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_018E_01BF176F.9623CAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard I have a 50 X 42 prop that I used on the first 40 hours of my 1835 KR-2. = Another individual is using the prop to run his 1/2 VW engine tests. = let me know if you think it may work for you. Regards Parley (N54PB) parley@anv.net Henderson Nevada -----Original Message----- From: Richard McCall To: KR-net users group Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:05 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Paul's KR =20 =20 Do you have a prop cutter? =20 Rich ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wolf Packs, Inc.=20 To: KR-net users group=20 Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 2:03 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Paul's KR =20 =20 I just re-read my last message. To be clear...I don't want to = cut up someone's prop, just use one "as is" to see how well it works. =20 =20 =20 If someone out there has a used VW prop, anything from 54 X = 44 to 52 X 42, that I could borrow/test, I'd sure like to try it out = before I cut mine.=20 =20 Paul Martin, Ashland, Oregon mailto:paul@wolfpacks.com ------=_NextPart_000_018E_01BF176F.9623CAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Richard
 
I have a 50 X 42 prop that I used on the first 40 = hours of my=20 1835 KR-2.  Another individual is using the prop to run his 1/2 VW = engine=20 tests.  let me know if you think it may work for you.
 
Regards
Parley (N54PB)
parley@anv.net
Henderson=20 Nevada
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Richard McCall <planecraft@earthlink.net>=
To:=20 KR-net users group <kr-net@telelists.com>
D= ate:=20 Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:05 PM
Subject: [kr-net] = Re:=20 Paul's KR

Do you have a prop cutter?
 
Rich
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Wolf Packs,=20 Inc.
To: KR-net=20 users group
Sent: Friday, October 01, = 1999 2:03=20 AM
Subject: [kr-net] Re: = Paul's=20 KR

I just re-read my = last=20 message.  To be clear...I don't want to cut up someone's = prop, just=20 use one "as is" to see how well it works.


If someone out there has a used = VW=20 prop, anything from 54 X 44 to 52 X 42, that I could = borrow/test,=20 I'd sure like to try it out before I cut mine. =

Paul=20 Martin, Ashland, Oregon
mailto:paul@wolfpacks.com
 ------=_NextPart_000_018E_01BF176F.9623CAC0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Triaxial cloth and such From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 07:48:22 -0400 X-Message-Number: 2 At 06:45 PM 10/15/1999 -0700, you wrote: >"Wayne DeLisle Sr." wrote: >> >> If you follow the RR plans, you will only be using 1 layer of 5.85oz. glass cloth over the >> wing behind the main spar and 2 layers forward of the spar. Anything else simply adds >> weigh and cost without any useful benefits. > >Except that your wings will warp like crazy at high speeds. If you plan >to go fast don't so this. Not having ridden in a KR, I don't have any experience about this. However, the folks using the Diehl wing skins say they don't have this problem. Mark Langfords methods make the double walled skin easy, without having to go to the trouble to make molds and vacuum bag the skins. With his carbon fiber outer skins, he won't have any problems either. My reason for using the biaxial is cost, the CF is $28.95 a yard. The 9oz. biaxial costs $5.47 from Wicks, but they say 100 yard rolls only. I can get the same stuff from RAKA, http://www.raka.com/index.html , for 8.75 a yard with discounts for quanity. RAKA also has excellent prices on resin, like the 3 gallon kits cost $110.00. They are located in Florida, which makes the shipping easier to take as well. Do the new manuals list any changes in this area? Mine are so old that it only talks about Dynal... WD --------------------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA EAA # 545644 IHA # 118 mailto:dodger@accessnode.net http://accessnode.net/~dodger --------------------------------------------------------- Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Triaxial cloth and such From: Krwr1@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:09:00 EDT X-Message-Number: 3 In a message dated 10/16/1999 7:47:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dodger@accessnode.net writes: << >> If you follow the RR plans, you will only be using 1 layer of 5.85oz. glass cloth over the >> wing behind the main spar and 2 layers forward of the spar. Anything else simply adds >> weigh and cost without any useful benefits. > >Except that your wings will warp like crazy at high speeds. If you plan >to go fast don't so this. >> I went per RR plans and went over 200 a number of times , and never had a problem with the wings . Wildbill Yo. Ohio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Triaxial cloth and such From: "Capps Family" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 07:14:25 -0500 X-Message-Number: 4 It was my understanding that the RAKA and West System epoxies should not be used in airplane construction, do to their soft curing cycle. RAKA and West System were formulated to give better flexibility to resist impact and wood deformation in the boating industry. This style of epoxy dose not cure hard enough for our use. If this is an incorrect statement, I would like someone to correct me on it. Larry A. Capps cappsfan@ameritech.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne DeLisle Sr. To: KR-net users group Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 6:48 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Triaxial cloth and such > At 06:45 PM 10/15/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >"Wayne DeLisle Sr." wrote: > >> > >> If you follow the RR plans, you will only be using 1 layer of 5.85oz. glass cloth over the > >> wing behind the main spar and 2 layers forward of the spar. Anything else simply adds > >> weigh and cost without any useful benefits. > > > >Except that your wings will warp like crazy at high speeds. If you plan > >to go fast don't so this. > > Not having ridden in a KR, I don't have any experience about this. However, the > folks using the Diehl wing skins say they don't have this problem. > > Mark Langfords methods make the double walled skin easy, without having to go to > the trouble to make molds and vacuum bag the skins. With his carbon fiber outer > skins, he won't have any problems either. > > My reason for using the biaxial is cost, the CF is $28.95 a yard. The 9oz. biaxial costs > $5.47 from Wicks, but they say 100 yard rolls only. > > I can get the same stuff from RAKA, http://www.raka.com/index.html , for 8.75 a yard > with discounts for quanity. RAKA also has excellent prices on resin, like the 3 gallon > kits cost $110.00. They are located in Florida, which makes the shipping easier to take > as well. > > Do the new manuals list any changes in this area? Mine are so old that it only talks about > Dynal... > > WD > --------------------------------------------------------- > Wayne DeLisle Sr. > Charlotte, North Carolina USA > EAA # 545644 > IHA # 118 > mailto:dodger@accessnode.net > http://accessnode.net/~dodger > --------------------------------------------------------- > Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" > online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cappsfan@ameritech.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Gathering Forum video deal From: "Richard McCall" Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:02:46 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 Hey Mark, I would like a copy please, when you can. Rich McCall 2106 Modoc Drive Harker Hts, TX 76548 ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Langford To: KR-net users group Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 12:03 PM Subject: [kr-net] Gathering Forum video deal > VideoHeads, > > So far, I've sold (but not shipped) a grand total of 4 Gathering Forum > videos for $25, and I suspect that will be just about it. I guess the price > was too steep. It's not even worth the trouble of doing it, and making > copies uses BOTH of my VCRs for 6 hours at a time. But I really think KR > builders need to see these forums, which include Composites (me and Dr. > Dean), Smooth Prime demo (Dana Overall) taped by Trent Flemming, the new > airfoil (Steve Eberhart and Dr. Ashok G), Great Plains Aircraft VW engines > (Steve Bennett), the Corvair engine conversion (William Wynne) and First > Flight (Rick Junkin). There's also some nice video by Mark Jones of flying > KRs and Lake Barkley to finish out the 6 hour tape. > > So I've come up with another plan which allows more builders to see the the > Forums, AND keeps me from having to make a bunch more of these stinkin' > tapes. How about I make a list of folks who want to "borrow" the tape for 2 > or 3 days. Then I send several tapes around with several lists enclosed > (depending on how many people sign up). You get the tape, watch it, record > it if you want, send it to the next guy on the list within a few days > (Priority Mail, for $3.20), and send me a check for $10 for my trouble. The > $10 does 2 things. It will prevent 460 people from saying "add me to the > list" when many might not even care enough to watch it, and it helps me pay > for time I have involved in this thing, as well as may eventually pay for > the electronic epoxy scales that I trashed at the Gathering. I'm not going > to volunteer to make any more copies of the tape, since it's a real pain, > and anybody that really wanted one would have antied up the $25 already. By > the way, those four guys will be at the top of the list, and will get the > tapes first, but for only $10. > > The quality of these tapes is nowhere near what Video Bob does (after 2 > dubbings) but they're not as bad as I originally thought they'd be. If you > don't have time to watch it, or can't get it back in the mail in under 3 > days, please don't get on the list. To get on the list, email me directly > by clicking on mailto:langford@hiwaay.net or cutting and pasting > langford@hiwaay.net into the TO box (NOT to KRNet) . Send me a check when > you send the video to the next guy on the list. This will be the last > mention of this on KRNet, I hope... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: planecraft@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: A star is born: again From: "Richard McCall" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:01:37 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 It works! Rich McCall ----- Original Message ----- From: To: KR-net users group Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 10:15 PM Subject: [kr-net] A star is born: again > Hi there, > > Some folks were having trouble accessing my web site. It was suggested that I > should add .html at the end of the address. So I did that. The new site > address is: > > http://members.aol.com/HAshraf/KR2S.html > > On aol member names are not case sensitive so hashraf should work too. > However, file names are case sensitive. > > Please let me know whether you are sucessful. > > Thanks > > Haris Ashraf > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: planecraft@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Triaxial cloth and such From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:41:51 -0400 X-Message-Number: 7 At 07:14 AM 10/16/1999 -0500, you wrote: >It was my understanding that the RAKA and West System epoxies >should not be used in airplane construction, >do to their soft curing cycle. RAKA and West System were >formulated to give better flexibility to resist impact >and wood deformation in the boating industry. This style of >epoxy dose not cure hard enough for our use. > >If this is an incorrect statement, I would like someone to >correct me on it. > >Larry A. Capps >cappsfan@ameritech.net I've heard all abut the West Systems horror stories. I've seen no evidence that they are true. To the best of my understanding, it was Burt Rutan who said not to use West Systems epoxy, because it didn't meed his engineering specifications, for building the EZ class of designs, not because it was a bad product. This has become another urban legend and basically untrue, AFAIK. If you have any real documentation that shows that West Systems is not safe to use, I would really like to see it. The same goes for RAKA. I've not heard anyone anywhere say anything about RAKA. Again, point me to some specific facts that I can use to judge for myself. 3rd. hand stories are without merit and a waste of bandwidth. Take care, WD --------------------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA EAA # 545644 IHA # 118 mailto:dodger@accessnode.net http://accessnode.net/~dodger --------------------------------------------------------- Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wing seam covers From: cartera Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:41:26 -0600 X-Message-Number: 8 > Dear KRNET > > TO START WITH I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR RESPONSES TO THE WING SEAM > COVERS AND I HAVE ENOUGH IDEAS NOW TO GET SOMETHING TO WORK, BUT I HAVE TO > RESPOND TO MARKS COMMENTS. MY WINGS BUTT PERFECTLY TO MY STUB WINGS, THEY > WERE ALL LAYED UP TOGETHER AND CUT APART WITH A SHARP BLADE, HOWEVER THAT > little hair line crack THAT RUNS ACROSS THE WINGS LOOKS STUPID AND I'M GOING > TO COVER IT UP!!! > > Mike Garbez N998MG > Griswold ,IA > (712) 778-2449 > msgtlg@netins.net > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com One can make simple things complicated as we want. My wing was built the same way as Mikes, in one piece and then cut off for a very fine line. To cover this line I used a white vinyl 1-1/2" wide tape which is used for marking out basket ball courts, come in just about any color and can be purchased at any fastener or packing/package supplier. Takes about 5 mins to put on start at the TE around to the LE and back to the TE - done! Simple and easy and does not leave any residue like duck tape does when removed. Come on guys use the KISS principle and keep it LIGHT. What a waste of bandwidth! ;-) -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Continuing Engine Selection From: "Peter Johnson" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:37:33 -0000 X-Message-Number: 9 To continue with the discussion on viable engines, I would like to ask the group what the overall feeling/experiences are with what I will call 'aftermarket' VW engines. The other day I picked up a copy of 'Hot VW's' magazine and got an eye opening introduction into the latest VW engine design and technology. Modern engine design has produced a large selection of new VW engine components which incorporate such things as; performance cams from 'mild to wild'; heads with larger valves, improved porting, valve inserts to prevent 'burn and sink', more material around the spark plug holes to prevent cracking and larger cooling fin area to increase cooling affect; jugs with six bolts instead of four to prevent leaking at the case and incorporating more material in the design to provide greater strength; crankcases designed for greater strength/stability, larger jugs and crank throws, and improved oil flow; forged pistons with graphite coating; balanced and matched con rods; cranks of all strengths and strokes to allow various displacements, greater rpm, and which use larger GM bearings; piston/jug/crank assemblies which allow up to 3000 cc in a Type 1. I called a few of the shops close to hand and had some very interesting discussions. With an engine assembled with some of the above components, it is quite possible to pull 200 hp at 7000+/- rpm. And this from a naturally aspirated engine designed to be street driven, not a drag engine! With a readily available cam to move the torque down lower, the fellows I spoke with all indicated that such an engine at 3500 rpm would produce 85+ hp easily and run forever. And the 'hook in the bait' is that the prices are half of what we've come to accept for aircraft VW's. So, what are the feelings and experiences of the rest of the group? Is this modern VW engine design stuff suitable? Lets talk.... Peter Johnson KR-2S in a box pjohnson@voyageur.ca Kenora, Ontario ---------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Continuing Engine Selection From: "Peter Johnson" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:42:07 -0000 X-Message-Number: 10 ---------- > From: Peter Johnson > To: KR-net users group > Subject: Re: Continuing Engine Selection > Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:37 AM > > > To continue with the discussion on viable engines, I would like to ask the > group what the overall feeling/experiences are with what I will call > 'aftermarket' VW engines. The other day I picked up a copy of 'Hot VW's' > magazine and got an eye opening introduction into the latest VW engine > design and technology. > > Modern engine design has produced a large selection of new VW engine > components which incorporate such things as; performance cams from 'mild to > wild'; heads with larger valves, improved porting, valve inserts to prevent > 'burn and sink', more material around the spark plug holes to prevent > cracking and larger cooling fin area to increase cooling affect; jugs with > six bolts instead of four to prevent leaking at the case and incorporating > more material in the design to provide greater strength; crankcases > designed for greater strength/stability, larger jugs and crank throws, and > improved oil flow; forged pistons with graphite coating; balanced and > matched con rods; cranks of all strengths and strokes to allow various > displacements, greater rpm, and which use larger GM bearings; > piston/jug/crank assemblies which allow up to 3000 cc in a Type 1. > > I called a few of the shops close to hand and had some very interesting > discussions. With an engine assembled with some of the above components, > it is quite possible to pull 200 hp at 7000+/- rpm. And this from a > naturally aspirated engine designed to be street driven, not a drag engine! > With a readily available cam to move the torque down lower, the fellows I > spoke with all indicated that such an engine at 3500 rpm would produce 85+ > hp easily and run forever. And the 'hook in the bait' is that the prices > are half of what we've come to accept for aircraft VW's. > > So, what are the feelings and experiences of the rest of the group? Is > this modern VW engine design stuff suitable? > > Lets talk.... > > > Peter Johnson > KR-2S in a box > pjohnson@voyageur.ca > Kenora, Ontario > > > > ---------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Triaxial cloth and such From: "Capps Family" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:59:28 -0500 X-Message-Number: 11 snip > Again, point me to some specific facts that I can use to judge for myself. snip OKies, I did just what was asked of me. "Prove that these epoxies (RAKA or West System) is bad for us to use, compared to what we are using, or have used in the past ( did I say that plain enough)." I CAN'T After spending 1-hour on the phone with Larry at RAKA (the mans a wealth of knowledge), and pouring over countless web sights dealing in epoxy formulation, I can find "NO" reason why his line of products would not be equal to or better than some epoxies we are using. And for those that are happy with their choice in resins, I say stick to them. For those willing to look else where, I recommend that you test for yourself the different epoxies out there and their properties. So are will dealing with green eggs and ham, I don't know, try it try it and see, you might like green eggs and ham. Blue Skies; Larry A. Capps cappsfan@ameritech.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne DeLisle Sr. To: KR-net users group Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 9:41 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Triaxial cloth and such > At 07:14 AM 10/16/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >It was my understanding that the RAKA and West System epoxies > >should not be used in airplane construction, > >do to their soft curing cycle. RAKA and West System were > >formulated to give better flexibility to resist impact > >and wood deformation in the boating industry. This style of > >epoxy dose not cure hard enough for our use. > > > >If this is an incorrect statement, I would like someone to > >correct me on it. > > > >Larry A. Capps > >cappsfan@ameritech.net > > I've heard all abut the West Systems horror stories. I've seen > no evidence that they are true. To the best of my understanding, > it was Burt Rutan who said not to use West Systems epoxy, > because it didn't meed his engineering specifications, for building > the EZ class of designs, not because it was a bad product. > > This has become another urban legend and basically untrue, AFAIK. > > If you have any real documentation that shows that West Systems > is not safe to use, I would really like to see it. The same goes for > RAKA. I've not heard anyone anywhere say anything about RAKA. > Again, point me to some specific facts that I can use to judge for myself. > > 3rd. hand stories are without merit and a waste of bandwidth. > > Take care, > > WD > --------------------------------------------------------- > Wayne DeLisle Sr. > Charlotte, North Carolina USA > EAA # 545644 > IHA # 118 > mailto:dodger@accessnode.net > http://accessnode.net/~dodger > --------------------------------------------------------- > Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" > online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cappsfan@ameritech.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: For the weight watchers From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:05:45 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 Hey weight watchers, I was looking through an old SA magazine and found where Ken listed the airframe weights for the KR1 and KR2. The KR1 should be 225lbs and the KR2 280lbs. I wonder if RR has come up with a airframe weight for the KR2S? Just adding the extra wood I come up with somthing in the area of 340lbs. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Project update From: "Edwin Blocher" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:23:16 -0500 X-Message-Number: 13 Update after 36 days with 4 days out for the Gathering. Just finished sanding the fuselage in prep for plywood. I added some pictures on my website yesterday of what things look like after the first 30 days. Please don't look at the pilot. I don't photograph very good. ED Ed Blocher Moody, AL e-mail me at: ed_blocher@msn.com Check out all the latest on my home page. http://homepages.msn.com/Terminus/edsKR/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: : West System Epoxy Physical Properties From: "Gene Lukan" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:40:32 -0600 X-Message-Number: 14 Guys, I have being following the epoxy discussion. For what its worth, the physical properties of West System epoxy is available at www.cstsales.com/west-data.htm. If anyone has the info on alternative products I would like to see it. Cheers, Gene Lukan Cochrane Alberta ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Triaxial cloth and such From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:34:19 -0700 X-Message-Number: 15 Capps Family wrote: > RAKA and West System were formulated to give better flexibility to resist impact > and wood deformation in the boating industry. This style of epoxy dose not cure hard enough for our use. > > If this is an incorrect statement, I would like someone to correct me on it. > This is exactly what Rutan, Viking and Rand Robinson have said. I think KR builders get away with building with it because the KR is not a true composite airplane as we think of them (glass and foam load carrying structure). -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: The west system From: "Cleo Greenhaw" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:42:28 -0500 X-Message-Number: 16 Sirs: Why not contact the manufacture and ask them the questions? After all, they are the ones with the proper documentation about their products. Cleo at cleo@fullnet.net -----Original Message----- From: Wayne DeLisle Sr. To: KR-net users group Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 9:48 AM Subject: [kr-net] Re: Triaxial cloth and such >At 07:14 AM 10/16/1999 -0500, you wrote: >>It was my understanding that the RAKA and West System epoxies >>should not be used in airplane construction, >>do to their soft curing cycle. RAKA and West System were >>formulated to give better flexibility to resist impact >>and wood deformation in the boating industry. This style of >>epoxy dose not cure hard enough for our use. >> >>If this is an incorrect statement, I would like someone to >>correct me on it. >> >>Larry A. Capps >>cappsfan@ameritech.net > >I've heard all abut the West Systems horror stories. I've seen >no evidence that they are true. To the best of my understanding, >it was Burt Rutan who said not to use West Systems epoxy, >because it didn't meed his engineering specifications, for building >the EZ class of designs, not because it was a bad product. > >This has become another urban legend and basically untrue, AFAIK. > >If you have any real documentation that shows that West Systems >is not safe to use, I would really like to see it. The same goes for >RAKA. I've not heard anyone anywhere say anything about RAKA. >Again, point me to some specific facts that I can use to judge for myself. > >3rd. hand stories are without merit and a waste of bandwidth. > >Take care, > >WD >--------------------------------------------------------- >Wayne DeLisle Sr. >Charlotte, North Carolina USA >EAA # 545644 >IHA # 118 >mailto:dodger@accessnode.net >http://accessnode.net/~dodger >--------------------------------------------------------- >Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" >online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cleo@fullnet.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Triaxial cloth and such From: Laheze@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:48:31 EDT X-Message-Number: 17 Mike I think you have a good point. Glassair, Lancair, and Ezes do not have a wooden skeleton inside of them and rely totally on the structural integrity of the resin system to help form its structure. The Longeze has a wood longeron at the top edge of the fuselage and a small triangular piece of wood along the length of the bottom corner mostly for attaching the seat belt attach points. The rest of the structure, spar caps, shear web, carry through spar are all resin dependent as you all know. The Defiant is the same. The good ole KR2 has a complete skeleton to support a slightly weaker resin system. Not sure I would want a weaker resin system but it may not matter on a KR2. Larry Howell laheze@aol.com KR2 rebuilder, almost flyer Rockwall, Tx ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Triaxial cloth and such From: Laheze@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:52:26 EDT X-Message-Number: 18 I did not mean the wood glueing system of course. I would use the best I could get for this purpose. I prefer good ole T88 myself. Larry Howell laheze@aol.com KR2 rebuilder, almost flyer Rockwall, Tx ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The west system From: Mike Mims Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:51:39 -0700 X-Message-Number: 19 Cleo Greenhaw wrote: > > >This has become another urban legend and basically untrue, AFAIK. > > > >If you have any real documentation that shows that West Systems > >is not safe to use, I would really like to see it. The same goes for > >RAKA. I've not heard anyone anywhere say anything about RAKA. > >Again, point me to some specific facts that I can use to judge for myself. > > > >3rd. hand stories are without merit and a waste of bandwidth. > > > >Take care, > > > >WD You need to get in touch with some of the EZ and Cozy builders. If I remember right there were a few of them that had big problems with delimitation. Some so bad that entire projects had to be scrapped. Other than that use what you want, after all its your butt not mine. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Triaxial cloth and such From: "Richard Parker" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:47:08 PDT X-Message-Number: 20 I dont understand why flexibility and impact resisitance wouldnt be favorable in aircraft construction. I was sure glad the that the wingtips on the last 747 that I flew on was able to deflect about 20 ft vs. snapping because they were too rigid. RP Cow Hampshire > >It was my understanding that the RAKA and West System epoxies > >should not be used in airplane construction, > >do to their soft curing cycle. RAKA and West System were > >formulated to give better flexibility to resist impact > >and wood deformation in the boating industry. This style of > >epoxy dose not cure hard enough for our use. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wing seam covers From: Bobby Muse Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:02:10 -0500 X-Message-Number: 21 At 10:58 AM 10/15/1999 -0500, you wrote: > > >Bobby, > >What about annual airworthyness inspections?? Isn't 5 yrs a bit long >between checkups??? > >Al >N41AF >KR-2 >Colleyville, TX > > Hep! Bobby Muse N122B - Wimberley, TX mailto:bmuse@mindspring.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Resins etc. From: WilliamTCA@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 00:04:49 EDT X-Message-Number: 22 Friends, I have read many of the postings about epoxy in the last few days. In my experience, the two most useful sources of information are the manufacturer and an independent specialist for whom I have great respect, Steven D. Zeller from Southbrook Technologies Inc., zeller@bellsouth.net. Manufacturers best know their products. I do recall several years ago West Systems being advertised as "not for structural use in aircraft." I believe this was primarily for liability purposes. West Systems generates most of its revenue from boat manufacturing, which has substantially lower liability exposure. I built a pair of W-10 wingtips for a 225mph Cassutt air racer from blue foam and West Systems epoxy on 7725 Fiberglas. I had no fear that they would break. But I would not make such a substitution on a structural member of an all-composite aircraft. Many builders make substitutions without looking at all the issues. If you make the skins stiff enough on a KR, the spars won't be doing the same amount of work. It is the same analogy that you can have a wire which supports 5 lbs in tension and a rubber band which will do the same. But side by side, they will not support a 10 lb weight. Obviously the rubber band will not do its share of the work until the wire has broken. I feel that the KR is a very forgiving design structurally. The amount of material substitutions which have successfully flown has shown this to be true. But builders should be aware that strengthening or stiffening any component may make it a load path. If you have a specific question about epoxy systems, e-mail Steve. He earns his living on his epoxy advice. Please think out your question carefully and do your homework. He's a nice guy, and very generous with his time, so I try and use as little of it as possible. Thanks William ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Continuing Engine Selection From: Michael Taglieri Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:05:36 -0400 X-Message-Number: 23 >To continue with the discussion on viable engines, I would like to ask the >group what the overall feeling/experiences are with what I will call >'aftermarket' VW engines. The other day I picked up a copy of 'Hot VW's' >magazine and got an eye opening introduction into the latest VW engine >design and technology. . . . >I called a few of the shops close to hand and had some very interesting >discussions. With an engine assembled with some of the above components, >it is quite possible to pull 200 hp at 7000+/- rpm. And this from a >naturally aspirated engine designed to be street driven, not a drag >engine! > With a readily available cam to move the torque down lower, the fellows I >spoke with all indicated that such an engine at 3500 rpm would produce 85+ >hp easily and run forever. And the 'hook in the bait' is that the prices >are half of what we've come to accept for aircraft VW's. > >So, what are the feelings and experiences of the rest of the group? Is >this modern VW engine design stuff suitable? The short answer is that aviation use puts MUCH more stress on an engine than any kind of auto use, since on a car you need full power only to accelerate and very little throttle the rest of the time. For this reason, Great Plains and other aero-converters of VW's design their engines to have low compression and mild cams for a long life. Some of the improvements you mentioned may turn out to increase reliability, but if you increase the compression much beyond 8:1, I'd expect the engine to have a very short life. Mike Taglieri ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Holman & Building a plane in 30 days From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:17:47 +0000 X-Message-Number: 24 Yes, I saw the program. I liked the guy at first, and thought he did some good reasearch. The great portion was when he talked with Burt Rutan and Rutan's Parrot. He said that you need to finish the airframe in 1 week to build successfully in 30 days, as the airframe is only 25% of the project. That was right in line with my experience building the KR. I had the "boat" and Spars, and even wings for a long time. It's too bad the guy kinda fell apart at the end. I even think he could have had a chance with the project. The jig's looked good, but using that balsa stuff was an oops. I liked his idea of experimenting, but if he wanted to stay on a 30 day track he was in trouble from the first week. -- Ross "Wayne DeLisle Sr." wrote: > At 10:19 PM 10/14/1999 +0000, you wrote: > >Stallion... was Holman the guy involved in the design for the plane > >that was to be built in 30 days? I knew it was the Stallion designer, > >but I don't know if the Stallion designer Holman. > > > >Mark Langford wrote: > > Yup, that's him. I taped the program, thought it might be something useful. > > The one off design looked a lot like a Vision, right down to the building > process. > > The whole idea was a joke by the character that supposedly was an > experienced home builder, mostly on the British producer who spent the > bux to bankroll it. > > The Fisher Youngster that he finally had factory built for him, looked nice > though. > > WD > --------------------------------------------------------- > Wayne DeLisle Sr. > Charlotte, North Carolina USA > EAA # 545644 > IHA # 118 > mailto:dodger@accessnode.net > http://accessnode.net/~dodger > --------------------------------------------------------- > Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" > online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: make vertical stab off the plane? From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:23:38 +0000 X-Message-Number: 25 I'm thinking Mooney tails were like the Cessna tails... A marketing gimmick. It might look neat. I have no idea how it would fly though, probably OK. You get to figure out the new spar arrangement however.... -- Ross Jody Wallace wrote: > >From: HAshraf@aol.com > >Reply-To: "KR-net users group" > >To: "KR-net users group" > >Subject: [kr-net] Re: make vertical stab off the plane? > >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:41:54 EDT > > > >In a message dated 99-10-14 19:06:27 EDT, you write: > > > ><< I would like to > > make the vstab/rudder now while the hstab/elev is fresh in my mind. >> > > > >I do not see any problems. Just make sure that the angle of the two posts > >are > >right. > > > >Haris > > > >mailto:hashraf@aol.com > > Hey Guys: > > I wonder how a Mooney tail would look on a KR? I don't think it would be too > hard to fabricate. What do you guys think? > > Jody A. Wallace > P.O. Box 114 > Cicero, IN 46034 > (317)984-3227 > jwallace@logical123.net (home) > jodywallace@hotmail.com (all world) > cecai@indy.net (work) > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: ** Corrupt Digests ** -- Admin From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:32:05 +0000 X-Message-Number: 26 ** Please post to me directly at krnet@krnet.org or rossy@teleport.com when replying to this thread ** MR RBChaser1. This is Ross... KR-net admin. Thanks for the post. If anyone else is getting corrupt digests let me know. I get them, but I don't read them so they could have been hosed for a while and this would be the first I'd heard of it. Teleport is working out some Lyris bugs and this could be part of the problem. They have suspended charging folks for Lyris service till Jan '00 hoping that the problem is resolved by then. We get our list for free anyway, but the point is they are looking into "somthing" that they are not happy with which is going on with the server software & system node. -- Ross RBChaser1@aol.com wrote: > The digest that I am getting downloaded is corrupted > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: wing seam covers Aluminum strips From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:33:29 +0000 X-Message-Number: 27 Ron, I ** LIKED** this tip.. makes sense and I never would have thought of it, or considered this unless I tuft tested my wing mself or read this. Thanks for this post! -- Ross Ron Freiberger wrote: > I built a variant of the Spezio Tuholer, fiished in 1972 (!). There were > some low speed handling complaints by others, and I tuft-test my wing to see > the problem. It turned out to be leakage from under the gap seal. Airflow > was normal as you slowed down, and the it would "unport" on one side or the > other and drop lift badly on one side. I put a little wood screw every 3 > inces all the way around, on both sides, and there was a dramatic > improvement in low speed handling. To redo it, I would use Mr Muse's > sugggestion to glue with silicone. That's fail safe and easy to remove. I > would join also at the leading edge, using two pieces, just to make it easy > to handle without bending and distortion. > > BTW ... the ladies use a pink tape on hair curlers that is nice to attach a > ribbon without leaving a residue. Kind of like a post-it note. > > Ron Freiberger KR2+/- building slowly in Fort Myers > > +/- means "approximately" > > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-kr-net-100070@telelists.com > [mailto:bounce-kr-net-100070@telelists.com]On Behalf Of > Tlongcrier@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 9:44 AM > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: wing seam covers > > There have been several posts regarding wing seal covers, particularly using > fiberglass tapes and other kind of sealing tapes. FWIW, I have a KR 2 with > Diehl wings, The wing gaps are covered with an alumium strip, cut to > whatever width you want. The length should be, for the top of the wing, > long > enough to curve around leading edge to where the flat surface begins - or > near to it - and end at the gap between the wing and the aileron. > > Shape this aluminum strip to the contour of the airfold. Crimp the edges > downward just enough to make a nice contact with the wing surface. Attach > with small sheet metal screws. > > As for the bottom of the wing, do the same thing. Since the bottom is > mostly > flat, little shaping will be necessary and you won't have to turn the plane > upside down. > > Paint the strips the same color as the aircraft, or whatever you chose. > > It makes a very nice, professional looking gap seal. Also easily removed. > A > sheet metal screw on either side, 10 to 12 inches apart along the length is > all that is needed. The fewer the better just so long as it is secure. > > TLongcrier @aol.com > Florence, Al > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ronald.freiberger@prodigy.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: How to setup a new mail server. From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:35:42 +0000 X-Message-Number: 28 Hey Mike, No problem, I just wanted folks to know that voluntary donations appear to be keeping us afloat just fine. -- Ross Mike Mims wrote: > "Ross R. Youngblood" wrote: > > > > > Krnet bill = $99.50 YR (includes mail list) > > Disk Space = $100-130YR(archive storage) Optional for us > > Domain Host= $50 YR (Optional too) > > =========== > > $280 yr > > I'm thinking... whats the problem here... Teleport upgrades hardware and IP > > connections. Can we do this on $280 a year? > > > > I kinda thought we were getting a great deal so I didn't know what all > the commotion was about. Also I don't think the server that we use has > an issue with attachments as much as the subscribers to the list. If > people started send files around on this list I would be the first one > outta here! And I have a high speed connection. > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( > http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ > http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking/ > http://members.home.com/mikemims/ > Aliso Viejo CA > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Sterling Silver KR WINGS From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:37:36 +0000 X-Message-Number: 29 Warron, Great Photograph. By the way, does this mean the link to the pendant is broken? You should be getting some email from folks periodicly for the necklace and pendant. If not... I have more housekeeping to do. I clobbered Video Bob's links and still need to get those back on-line... oh well. Warron Gray wrote: > For any of you KR people I still make the Sterling Silver wings if you > are interested in a set they are $19.95 that includes shipping via > priorty mail . If you would like a set e-mail me at > warrong@bellsouth.net > Thanks for your time, Warron (in soggy fort lauderdale) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Image] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Epoxy Strength .... From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:00:57 +0000 X-Message-Number: 30 I think if you read the old Sport Aviation articles, Ken Rand went looking for anthing handy to use as an epoxy. At least you get that kind of "relaxed" approach to material selection from the way the '74 articles read. I for one, have heard a lot of fine things about the West System and think the company has been rather friendly to the homebuilding movement, based on what I have heard on the 'net. I personally used DOW DER epoxy originally (a Mobil product), and currently use Aeropoxy. I think that a resin with Aeropoxy in the name is more likely to have a slight desire to make a good product. Then finally, I was on an airplane with someone who consulted with the petrolium industry. It turns out that oil refineries can make gasolene for ANY company, they have additive packs for the most popular brands, and mix the fuel for whichever brand of fuel truck pulls up to the truck farm... at least thats what he said suprised him. For example a Texaco truck gets Texaco fuel, and an Arco truck can get Arco fuel from the same refinery owned by some other firm. This seemed wierd to me but he said it happens, they promise not to steal the secret additive pack recipies that they share so they can use each others fuel depos.... at least that was what he said. If you are wondering where I'm going with this... OK. I would bet you that West Systems Epoxy, and AeroPoxy don't have the millions and billions of dollars it takes to actually refine the petrolium based chemicals that are used in the formulation of epoxies, but they can specify the mix, and have the stuff made up and shipped in large gooey drums. (This is how I imagine it's done). So what you are buying is the precise mix of the gooey stuff, and the expertise of the chemists who specified the mix. West Systems gurus make epoxy so that the folks who buy multi million dollar yachts don't get upset with problems down the line (I expect, they might make all their $$$ selling to fishermen, but I doubt it). Aeropoxy... they probably sell a bit of stuff to homebuilders, I don't know where they make their $$$... and Hexcel, I expect they sell to the folks making B-1 and F117 airplanes... I don't know, but I got the impression that Hexcel was in composites to sell to large production runs of military aircraft, perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I used Hexcel structural adheasive instead of T-88, so I like to think that Hexcel sold a good chunk of the batch I used, on a B-2 bomber... but it probably went to make surf boards for all I know. I have yet to read an NTSB accident report citing failure of the epoxy system as a contributing factor. There was one where peel-ply was used between layers, and this caused delamination, but the epoxy wasn't mentioned. So although the West System Epoxy may cure differently I haven't heard of any major problems with it. Capps Family wrote: > snip > > Again, point me to some specific facts that I can use to judge > for myself. > snip > > OKies, I did just what was asked of me. > > "Prove that these epoxies (RAKA or West System) is bad for us to > use, compared to what we are using, > or have used in the past ( did I say that plain enough)." > > I CAN'T > > After spending 1-hour on the phone with Larry at RAKA (the mans a > wealth of knowledge), and pouring > over countless web sights dealing in epoxy formulation, I can > find "NO" reason why his line of products > would not be equal to or better than some epoxies we are using. > > And for those that are happy with their choice in resins, I say > stick to them. For those willing to look > else where, I recommend that you test for yourself the different > epoxies out there and their properties. > > So are will dealing with green eggs and ham, I don't know, try it > try it and see, you might like green eggs > and ham. > > Blue Skies; > > Larry A. Capps > cappsfan@ameritech.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wayne DeLisle Sr. > To: KR-net users group > Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 9:41 AM > Subject: [kr-net] Re: Triaxial cloth and such > > > At 07:14 AM 10/16/1999 -0500, you wrote: > > >It was my understanding that the RAKA and West System epoxies > > >should not be used in airplane construction, > > >do to their soft curing cycle. RAKA and West System were > > >formulated to give better flexibility to resist impact > > >and wood deformation in the boating industry. This style of > > >epoxy dose not cure hard enough for our use. > > > > > >If this is an incorrect statement, I would like someone to > > >correct me on it. > > > > > >Larry A. Capps > > >cappsfan@ameritech.net > > > > I've heard all abut the West Systems horror stories. I've seen > > no evidence that they are true. To the best of my > understanding, > > it was Burt Rutan who said not to use West Systems epoxy, > > because it didn't meed his engineering specifications, for > building > > the EZ class of designs, not because it was a bad product. > > > > This has become another urban legend and basically untrue, > AFAIK. > > > > If you have any real documentation that shows that West Systems > > is not safe to use, I would really like to see it. The same > goes for > > RAKA. I've not heard anyone anywhere say anything about RAKA. > > Again, point me to some specific facts that I can use to judge > for myself. > > > > 3rd. hand stories are without merit and a waste of bandwidth. > > > > Take care, > > > > WD > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Wayne DeLisle Sr. > > Charlotte, North Carolina USA > > EAA # 545644 > > IHA # 118 > > mailto:dodger@accessnode.net > > http://accessnode.net/~dodger > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" > > online FAQ/manual at > http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: > cappsfan@ameritech.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: For the weight watchers From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:08:26 +0000 X-Message-Number: 31 Mike, On page 42 of the March '75 Sport Aviation, "the KR-2" by Jack Cox there is a reference to the weights of the first customer built KR-2 and a comparison to the KR-2 prototype. (Yes I actually have a copy of this issue by my desk... the first KR-2 at Oskosh was in this article) At any rate, the article stated the KR-2 prototype was 430#, and the Wicks KR-2 weighed in at 555#. Later in the article Mr Cox writes: "* To compensate for top end performance, plan to go to the 2100cc engine. Be realistic, don't go crying to Ken Rand if your KR-2 weighs 500 pounds empty, is powered by stock 1600cc VW and cruses at 125-130mph. There's nothing about the design of the KR-2 that alters the basic laws of physics.. you gotta be light to go!" The Wicks KR-2 N100MW had a 2100cc Revmaster claimed 80cc and 4gph. Cruise at 140mph and "balls-to-the-wall" top of 165mph. Rate of climb was 800 to 900fpm. At gross weight the landing speed is 70 mph. Fun article... next time you are at Oskosh, Arlington, Sun-N-Fun, or Copperstate, look for a place that sells old Sport Aviation articles, that is where I picked up my March '75 issue. -- Ross Mike Mims wrote: > Hey weight watchers, I was looking through an old SA magazine and found > where Ken listed the airframe weights for the KR1 and KR2. The KR1 > should be 225lbs and the KR2 280lbs. I wonder if RR has come up with a > airframe weight for the KR2S? Just adding the extra wood I come up with > somthing in the area of 340lbs. > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( > http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ > http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking/ > http://members.home.com/mikemims/ > Aliso Viejo CA > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Moving... From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:21:33 +0000 X-Message-Number: 32 With a click of a mouse... I have paid the basic KR-net fee for the next 12 months. I'm trying to make sure all the stuff is taken care of before I move. My wife and kids are already in Tempe, AZ (near Phoenix), I plan to be down there as soon as the movers pack up the house. (Unknown). In case you need to reach me. The tried and true email addresses will still work, but I may not be checking them daily at some point between now and the first week of November. Those that know me will also know that this is normal anyway... I travel a lot for work. The email addresses are, and will remain: rossy@teleport.com -- Personal email krnet@krnet.org -- Krnet Admin stuff My mailing address after November 1st will be: Ross Youngblood 411 N Kyrene Rd #153 Chandler, Az 85226 We have wonderful LP siding on our existing home, so we will probably be in an apartment until such time as our house sells... possibly next summer....Ugh! Those who know my work email address, it will remain valid as well. --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com