From: KR-net users group digest[SMTP:kr-net@telelists.com] Sent: Sunday, October 24, 1999 11:15 PM To: kr-net digest recipients Subject: kr-net digest: October 24, 1999 KR-net users group Digest for Sunday, October 24, 1999. 1. Re: The latest Net discussion 2. Re: C.G. Indicator 3. The lpane the Cherry bx-2 4. Avweb auction site 5. Re: C.G. Indicator 6. KR-2 CG Indicator 7. Sad News, Another KR Down 8. CG indicator question 9. to cold to epoxy 10. Spruce lumber ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The latest Net discussion From: John Ruddock Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 06:25:30 -0400 X-Message-Number: 1 Well Said!! John Ruddock P.E. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: C.G. Indicator From: "Larry Jacks" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 06:13:48 -0600 X-Message-Number: 2 The only production plane that I've heard using such a system is the Lockheed L-1011. It worked for them but the weight & CG envelop on that plane was quite large. I suspect it would require precise calibration before being practical on a plane as light as a KR-2. The strain guages wouldn't weigh very much, the entire system might only weigh a pound or so. Like the previous poster noted, it should only be considered as a warning and not a substitute for doing a proper W&B. I suspect the legal liability factor probably explains why the idea hasn't been offered on production light planes. If you can make such a system work, I'd be interested. Larry Jacks mailto: ljacks@codenet.net Colorado Springs ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Junkin To: KR-net users group Sent: Saturday, October 23, 1999 10:13 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: C.G. Indicator > On 10/23/99, ""J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd." " > wrote: > > With all the talk about how important C.G. is in a KR, would a C.G. > > Indicator be useful? I've be thinking for some time about the usefulness and > > discussed it with some of my electronic engineers at GM. We think its > > feasible and I my include it on my KR. It would require placement of strain > > gauges on all three points of contact and simply calibrate them and send > > this info through a eeprom for conditioning and display or alarm light.. > > What do you think? > > > > KRRon > > Interesting idea. I'd liken it to the "oil" light in your car, it tells you > that you haven't performed the necessary maintenance, or, in this case, the > necessary preflight planning. As long as people didn't use something like > this as a replacement for calculating/knowing the CG travel throughout each > flight, I think it would serve as an "ooops" indicator that you did the CG > calc wrong. > > I'm not aware of anything like this being used on production airplanes, but > that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea. What kind of weight penalty > and complexity would we be talking about? > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ljacks@codenet.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: The lpane the Cherry bx-2 From: "Stefan den Boer" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:34:37 +0200 X-Message-Number: 3 Hello every body Normal I will not put this message on the net. But Got a lot questions about this type off aircraft. Let me tell you all that I am building the kr-2. I am buzzy thogetter with my dad. And startted to build the kr in 1984. So in the netherlands there was only a few plane approved from the Dutch faa that can be build. In the begin off the 1990 I heard about the Cherry BX 2. It was a swiss design . I think it is from the KR-2 a copy.But I am not sure. The plane. I can tell you that it has a really nice wing removeble system. The kr-2 has 2 spars. This one has a main spar, you can look tru from the lh side to the rh side. The main spar is build the same as the kr-2 but in fact you have 2 off these. It is open on the inside, you can slide your wing in it ( that is tapered) Its locked up with a pin. So it realesed the ailereon( It is a flapereon) Nav lite. pito in 50 sec. ( realy hard too explane in words) The reason that i didnt build this system is that the faa in the Netherland are realy hard. It is not allowed you build it differend than the drawings are saying. landing geare system. It is fully retrectible. Trim electric. Full removeble stabelizer (for trailering) With a 80 hp engine it flys about 110 knots 3000rpm.This engine I bouth from this guy. he fliyes now with a bmw engine 100 hp and 5000/6000 rpm with a geare box. And a electricol pich prop. He makes now abouth the same speed. He did not buy a new engine for the speed but only for the rate off climb.The plane is more havier than a kr. I have a small picture of it butt I only have a black withe scanner and i dont have a web side. So if someone is interested I can send it to him or her. So I will here that. My intention is not to sell thiss plane but one thing I will say, If I build in My next life a new home build it will probebly be a cherry. If there are more quistions mail me. I will call the guy and ask him. Dutch guy Stef den Boer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Avweb auction site From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 07:52:32 -0500 X-Message-Number: 4 Netters, AVweb has a new auction site. There's a couple KR-2s listed. Check it out. http://auction.avweb.com/osauction.stm Ed Janssen ejanssen@chipsnet.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: C.G. Indicator From: Bud Martin Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:33:26 -0600 X-Message-Number: 5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B13D10F7D9769BF56D6A87D6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I recall, there was something like this on the C-5A (the one time I was able to "fly" one), that was an assist to the crew Loadmaster. Rick Junkin wrote: > On 10/23/99, ""J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd." " > wrote: > > With all the talk about how important C.G. is in a KR, would a C.G. > > Indicator be useful? I've be thinking for some time about the usefulness and > > discussed it with some of my electronic engineers at GM. We think its > > feasible and I my include it on my KR. It would require placement of strain > > gauges on all three points of contact and simply calibrate them and send > > this info through a eeprom for conditioning and display or alarm light.. > > What do you think? > > > > KRRon > > Interesting idea. I'd liken it to the "oil" light in your car, it tells you > that you haven't performed the necessary maintenance, or, in this case, the > necessary preflight planning. As long as people didn't use something like > this as a replacement for calculating/knowing the CG travel throughout each > flight, I think it would serve as an "ooops" indicator that you did the CG > calc wrong. > > I'm not aware of anything like this being used on production airplanes, but > that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea. What kind of weight penalty > and complexity would we be talking about? > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: budm303@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com --------------B13D10F7D9769BF56D6A87D6 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="budm303.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Bud Martin Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="budm303.vcf" begin:vcard n:Martin;Bud tel;fax:5052000541 tel;home:3034200940 tel;work:8006490785 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Command Company adr:;;7172 Swadley Ct;Arvada;CO;80004-1253;USA version:2.1 email;internet:budm303@earthlink.net note;quoted-printable:USN/USAF Ret. O4 BA/MS/PhD=0D=0ACP-AS&MEL&S-I AGI AFA, AOPA, EAA, SAA,=0D=0AAWA, (KV4FR) CAW, ESP, WPN, MPN ..=0D=0Aa fine alphabet soup! Writer, Editor, Publisher.=0D=0APagan curmudgeon. x-mozilla-cpt:;-29104 end:vcard --------------B13D10F7D9769BF56D6A87D6-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KR-2 CG Indicator From: "Walter Lounsbery" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:12:24 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 This is one of those great ideas that bothers me, because I know somebody told me about commercial airliners using this. That was in my youth, before I had direct access to airplanes and technical manuals. And I can't remember seeing the CG Indicator on any panel diagrams... I think it would definitely need a microprocessor, since you have to compute total weight to get the cg. My first thought was that conventional gear a/c could do the job with a long spring on the tailwheel and a deflection meter (imagine a protractor on a fin next to the spring). But that just tells you how much weight is on the tail, not where the cg is. Keep in mind that those little strain gauges measure strain not stress or load. It may be necessary to design something that will deflect at least a little under the load to get a good reading. They also require calibration, you will need to tell the CG Meter what the actual load is at each point at some reference weight, and you would probably want actuals at empty weight and at max gross. And another thing I just thought of. I saw one of the modern laser prop-balancing rigs a few months ago. Perhaps an optical system would be the way to go? Strain gauges are notoriously inconsistent and prone to failure. Walter Lounsbery POB 54266 Hurst, TX 76054 (817) 285-8520 Walt@Lounsbery.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Sad News, Another KR Down From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:52:53 -0700 X-Message-Number: 7 It is with a heavy heart that I make this post to the Net. I just received a call from a friend in Iowa to relay the news to me that Jesse Klebsch of Ottumwa, Iowa was killed in NW Iowa in his KR this weekend. The news is very sketchy, but apparently he had an engine failure and was attempting an engine out landing. He never arrived at his destination, so a search was conducted along his planned route until the aircraft was located. I got together with Jesse in Iowa about two weeks ago and did some formation cross country flying with him. Jesse was a very competent pilot who was a CFI working his way towards a ride with the airlines. He had flown 500 hours in his KR in the last year, most of it cross country back and forth to South Dakota to visit his girlfriend on weekends. Jesse was a very nice young man, a competent pilot and it was my pleasure to have got to meet him and fly on his wing. For those of you that are privy to the NTSB preliminary reports, I would like to receive more information about this accident. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: CG indicator question From: Kr2dream@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:49:31 EDT X-Message-Number: 8 I might be mistaken on this but don't people get in trouble with CG shifting rearward when the forward fuel tank empties during flight ? If this is so, then how will any strain gauges connected to the gear be of any use other than indicating CG before takeoff - which may be in the acceptable range. Also, if a proper weight & balance was performed on the aircraft, the allowable envelope should be well known in advance of the flight. The indicator seems to me like an audible low fuel warning because I was too lazy to plan properly or monitor my fuel burn rate. I admit that the concept appears quite viable and interesting, but would have to be customized for each and every application. Bob lasecki Still building in Chicago ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: to cold to epoxy From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:56:37 -0400 X-Message-Number: 9 ARRRGH there is snow on the back porch. Thats what you get for living north of 45. Guess I'll have to do my epoxying inside! :) W.G. KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Spruce lumber From: "Stefan B." Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:51:44 +0200 X-Message-Number: 10 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B05695C94D298F8F659460BF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a very, very big problems in finding Sitka Spruce in France. The kits that AS&S or Wicks sells are not suitable for my application and I need a lumber that I could cut here and have it tested. I need the addresses of Spruce lumber sellers in the USA and Canada. Any help will be appreciated. E-mail me privately, please. Thanks in advance. Stefan Balatchev Paris, France mailto:Stefan.Balatchev@wanadoo.fr --------------B05695C94D298F8F659460BF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Stefan.Balatchev@wanadoo.fr" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Stefan.Balatchev@wanadoo.fr" --------------B05695C94D298F8F659460BF-- --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@timberline.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-17800J@telelists.com