From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: November 10, 1999 Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:14 AM KR-net users group Digest for Wednesday, November 10, 1999. 1. Floor 2. Rust-oleum 3. Re: Floor 4. Composite finishing 5. Re: Stop whining - Start building 6. Re: Composite finishing 7. Re: kr-net digest: November 09, 1999 8. Water Base Paint 9. Re: Painting with spray cans? 10. Re: kr-net digest: November 09, 1999 11. Re: What the &$%@#?? 12. 2nd comment after over 2 years 13. Re: What the &$%@#?? 14. Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams 15. Re: Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams 16. Re: Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams 17. Re: Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams 18. Re: Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams 19. Graphics file formats for faster downloads 20. Cockpit Floor 21. Re: What the &$%@#?? 22. Engine for sale!! 23. Re: Graphics file formats for faster downloads 24. Re: Painting 25. Alternator wiring 26. Re: Painting 27. Landing Gear ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Floor From: "John Martindale" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 2:20:34 X-Message-Number: 1 Hi folks. Is there is problem with extending the 1/4 ply sheet all the way back to the spar to strengthen the floor thereby doing away with the 1/8 as per the plans? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Rust-oleum From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 07:06:23 -0500 X-Message-Number: 2 For the last word go to: http://www.rustoleum.com/cbghome.htm Enjoy, WD --------------------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA EAA # 545644 SAA # 1003 IAA # 118 mailto:dodger@accessnode.net http://accessnode.net/~dodger --------------------------------------------------------- Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Floor From: Donald Reid Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:37:49 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3 John Martindale wrote: > > Hi folks. Is there is problem with extending the 1/4 ply sheet all the way > back to the spar to strengthen the floor thereby doing away with the 1/8 as > per the plans? 1) You will be adding a lot of extra weight that is really not needed. 2) 1/4" plywood is difficult to bend to the cure of the floor. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Composite finishing From: "Jody Wallace" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 05:59:20 PST X-Message-Number: 4 I attended a builders forum at Airventure 99' this summer. It was on composite finishing. I came away with a few tips that I will pass along. 1)Base-coat~Clear-coat paint systems suffer from UV degradation. (You should see my 90' Dodge Caravan (with base-coat~clear-coat)...it looks like its got the mange. Thats not to say they don't look absolutely fantastic...for a while. 2)Smooth-prime is wonderful.(also as Mike Mims says...use peal-ply) 3) There are some new water based paints coming available.(anybody know a manufacture?)The beauty of these are that they aren't so hard on the health of the applicator or the environment either. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stop whining - Start building From: "Ken Jordan" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 6:2:13 X-Message-Number: 5 Mr. Parker, The book "Firewall Forward" by Tony B. has several schematics on pp. 207-212 for aircraft electrical systems. The book is available thru EAA. Tony B. also has a new book just on Engines, which I haven't yet read. Mr. Bingelis' books should be required reading for all builders. Regards, Ken J ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Composite finishing From: "Ken Jordan" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 6:10:4 X-Message-Number: 6 Jody, PolyFiber makes a waterborne paint system for composites called Flight Gloss. their phone number is 800-362-3490 Regards, Ken J ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr-net digest: November 09, 1999 From: Gognij@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:28:45 EST X-Message-Number: 7 Mike, the plywood I was referring to, and I assume that everybody else was, is the inside flooring forward of the main spar! Jim Gogniat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Water Base Paint From: Laheze@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:52:45 EST X-Message-Number: 8 I talked to a guy at Oshkosh about 3 years ago who had painted his Glassair RG with a waterbase paint. The paint began to peel off, and after all the prep work and painting work he was to say the least very upset. He said they took all that paint system off his plane and repainted it with Dupont Imron. Water base paints maybe better now, but I for one would never take the chance after talking to that guy. When you have spent several years building your plane I think it is not very smart to scrimp, or be a total cheap scape on your final system before finishing your little bird. Larry Howell laheze@aol.com PS The Glassair guy did not use cheap waterbase paint. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting with spray cans? From: Mike Mims Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:31:20 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 9 You could do your trim in metalic blue but that color is too dark to paint the entire airplane with. Heat kills composite airplanes and that is why most of them are white. --- SClay10106@aol.com wrote: > Couple quick questions about painting. I am not the > greatest at it but I can > cover a surface nicely what color primer do you use > and what difference does > it make? Id like to paint my KR-1 metalic blue. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: > kr2sflyer@yahoo.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: kr-net digest: November 09, 1999 From: Mike Mims Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:33:58 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 10 If that was for this Mike then thats the plywood I am refering to also. What is so difficult about installing this piece? --- Gognij@aol.com wrote: > Mike, the plywood I was referring to, and I assume > that everybody else was, > is the inside flooring forward of the main spar! > Jim > Gogniat > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: > kr2sflyer@yahoo.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: What the &$%@#?? From: Mike Mims Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:21:35 -0800 (PST) X-Message-Number: 11 --- "Wayne DeLisle Sr." wrote: > Works for me. I've been filtering you for some time > now. I consider you to be one of the bigger > pains-in-the-ass on KRnet. > > Man, what a whiner...... > > WD Once again you strike with your one line remarks! To what I thought was a good idea no less. I think maybe they booted the wrong person from the list yesterday after seeing how you just have to throw in your one liners. And we wonder why people are bailing on this list. This list has gone to sh*t because of crap like this. Just as I thought I could get back on the list and try to offer up some advise, help or just my opinion I see this list is still up to no good. I will be joining Mark L on the A51 list and finally kissing this one good bye forever. Yeah I know I have said it before but this time its real. Good job Mr. DeLisle! And yes I realize I am a pain in the ass and a whiner sometimes. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 2nd comment after over 2 years From: "L. Keith Farnsworth" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:51:31 -0600 X-Message-Number: 12 I have been subscribed to, and have made donations to support the KR-net, for hmmmmm . . . probably over 2 years now, I look/listen to get good ideas for my KR-2. I rarely post because most of what I would have to say has already been posted before (use the archives folks). I would like to incorporate all the things we all want out of our KR's. Build them safe, inexpensive, fast, all of the things the KR-Net was designed to do by helping us all to share information on building with eachother around the world. I get sooooooo tired of all the useless posts where someone is trying to flame another - it gets very tiresum and frankly wastes my time that I could be using getting my bird in the air. I do however, feel the KR-Net is a very valuable tool, and I would not want to build my KR without it. What happened to the attitude, "If you don't have anything nice to say, then keep your damn mouth shut." I am one who will stand up and say Mike Mims is a truely fantastic person, I met and talked extensivly with him at a couple of the gatherings and he imparts with his ideas, knowledge, experience, and time. If anyone has ill things to post about about Mike Mims then I question that persons character. Mr. DeLisle, frankly I don't know you - but from your attitude with your posts I'll consider that a blessing. Now can we get the KR-Net back to what it is suppossed to be about - Building KR's L. Keith Farnsworth mailto:kafarn@swbell.net Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: What the &$%@#?? From: KRBLUCH@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:46:44 EST X-Message-Number: 13 What's wrong with you people? Yuo don't know a good thing when you've got it in your hand! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:53:29 EST X-Message-Number: 14 I know this going to sound stupid but I somehow lost the address to the web page where my diagrams are posted. Please help, not just for me but another person who asked me where. Thankyou Don Clarke ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams From: Kr2cooper@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:00:38 EST X-Message-Number: 15 Don Clarks pictures and diagrams are located at KR2S Construction FAQ: Pushrod Control System Jack Cooper kr2cooper@aol.com Fayetteville, NC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams From: DClarke351@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:08:50 EST X-Message-Number: 16 In a message dated 11/10/99 7:01:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kr2cooper@aol.com writes: << kr2cooper@aol.com >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:12:37 -0500 X-Message-Number: 17 At 06:53 PM 11/10/1999 -0500, you wrote: >I know this going to sound stupid but I somehow lost the address to the web >page where my diagrams are posted. Please help, not just for me but another >person who asked me where. Thankyou Don Clarke here you go. It's in chapter 7. http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking --------------------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA EAA # 545644 SAA # 1003 IAA # 118 mailto:dodger@accessnode.net http://accessnode.net/~dodger --------------------------------------------------------- Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Pushrod Pictures & Diagrams From: Kr2cooper@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:18:13 EST X-Message-Number: 18 I was trying to use a link to Don Clarks pushrod diagrams but I guess it didn't go through. Sorry about that. Its at http;//www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking/chapter7/clarke/pushrods/html Jack Cooper kr2cooper@aol.com Fayetteville, NC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Graphics file formats for faster downloads From: "Larry Jacks" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:25:45 -0700 X-Message-Number: 19 Hello, A few days ago someone posted that the best file format to use for sending images over the net was JPEG. Well, the answer is sometimes JPEG is great and sometimes it isn't. I've done a fair amount of graphics work and have found that the best format depends on the type of image you're sending. For photos, JPEG is an excellent format. However, for line art like Don Clark's pushrod diagrams you're better off using a Compuserve GIF format. Some people had noted that the pushrod drawings took a long time to download. I contacted Don off net and he was kind enough to send be a couple of his drawings in bitmap (BMP) format. I used some graphics software to save the drawings in GIF format as well as JPEGs at different compression settings. Here are the results: File BMP size GIF size 30% JPEG 60% JPEG 100% JPEG PR CTL Dia 965 KB 72 KB 247 KB 167 KB PR Ele Dia 467 KB 33 KB 139 KB 106 KB 91 KB Using high JPEG compression didn't hurt the quality of these line art drawings but a photo would look pretty crappy with those settings. Even with 100% JPEG compression the files were 2-3 times larger than with GIF files. You should keep this in mind when chosing which format to use on your website or email attachment. I'm sending the recompressed files back to Don tomorrow morning. I'll gladly convert all of his other files so it'll be easier to send them to other KRNet users. It'd also be useful to convert the drawings on the FAQ page. I'll gladly do the conversion if someone will send me the drawings to my work address (Larry.Jacks@digital.com). Smaller files and faster downloads are a good thing. Larry Jacks Colorado Springs - going from lurker to KR-2S builder soon ljacks@pcisys.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Cockpit Floor From: apecorar@steelcase.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:50:52 X-Message-Number: 20 Hi KRHeads! I haven't posted in a long time - ever since I opted to receive the digest ... but that's another story. I have been following the recent discussion on cockpit flooring and I decided to contribute my $0.02 on this topic because I just installed it over the last 2 days and it is still fresh in my mind. Here's how I did it: 1) I varnished the interior belly (and side skins - I was thinking ahead) with polyurethane making sure not to get any on the 5/8" members. As a precaution I laid masking tape on the surfaces that would later receive epoxy. You don't have to be concerned about the adhesive remaining on the wood since you can remove the tape right after you finish varnishing. 2) I inserted 1/2" styrofoam insulation between the 5/8" sections after the varnish was dry to the touch (approx. 3 hours). 3) I used 2.5mm birch to cover the floor from the firewall to the front of the forward spar. I drew in lines as a stapling guide to indicate where the 5/8" cross members were located. I used staples to apply pressure. Don't press down too hard on the stapler but apply enough pressure to create a good bond between the surfaces. 4) The next day I removed the staples from the 2.5mm birch installation and sanded the area with 100 grit. Then I prepared the 1/4" birch plywood that goes on top of the 2.5mm birch. The 1/4" birch goes from Station A to Station B. Tip: If you have a table-saw and a protractor, measure the angles that the cockpit floor makes with the sides and front and "shave" the bottom edges of this piece to fit these angles. 5) I then epoxied this piece into place and secured it using #6 3/4" brass screws. It is in there pretty tight! That's all there is to it! I also updated my site about a month ago. New builders and undecided persons: I encourage you to visit my site. Take care folks, Albert Pecoraro 1896 Radcliff SE Grand Rapids, MI 49506 mailto:apecorar@steelcase.com http://fly.to/hangar-AP (Click on the Eagle) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: What the &$%@#?? From: Michael Taglieri Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 23:31:50 -0500 X-Message-Number: 21 I think both of you have good ideas on KR-building, even if you're both sometimes a bit quick with the flame-thrower. How about both of you staying on the list and filtering anyone you like, but not broadcasting the fact to everyone else? Then maybe we could get back to talking about planes someday.... Mike Taglieri >> Works for me. I've been filtering you for some time >> now. I consider you to be one of the bigger >> pains-in-the-ass on KRnet.... >Once again you strike with your one line remarks! To >what I thought was a good idea no less. I think maybe >they booted the wrong person from the list yesterday.... ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Engine for sale!! From: Kimball Anderson Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:03:44 -0500 X-Message-Number: 22 Contact the seller (below) if you're interested: ***************************************** Zero time turbocharged Revmaster 2100 I'm selling it complete from air filter to exhaust pipe. Comes with dual mags, elect. starter and a the mount for a vacuum pump, but no pump. It has a spin on oil filter, and large aftermarket oil cooler. Not sure of the amperage of the built-in alternator, but I can find out. Wood prop and aluminum spinner included. Asking $3000 OBO, plus shipping. I can deliver it just about any place in central or southern Cal., or you can pick it up, or we can make arrangements to have it shipped out. panzera@cnetech.com Pat Panzera (559)-584-3306 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Graphics file formats for faster downloads From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:20:10 -0800 X-Message-Number: 23 On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:25:45 -0700 "Larry Jacks" writes: > Hello, > > A few days ago someone posted that the best file format to use for > sending images over the net was JPEG. Well, the answer is sometimes JPEG is > great and sometimes it isn't. I've done a fair amount of graphics work and > have found that the best format depends on the type of image you're sending. > For photos, JPEG is an excellent format. However, for line art like Don > Clark's pushrod diagrams you're better off using a Compuserve GIF format. > I have no nit to pick with Larry as this is obviously an area of expertise. I only want to mention that we encourage people to have willing members post pictures to a web page rather than attaching them to e-mails to the KRNet. This, of course is exactly what Don and Larry have done. Why do I mention this? This evening we are restricting the size of posts to the KRNet down to 10K in size. This will intentionally preclude most attachments.....including many viruses. If you can't quote someone else and say something in less than 10K, then you need to shorten your posts or look to see what else you are sending along with your posts. If this is causing anyone problems, please contact me directly rather than blasting the net with your aggravations. Regards, Net Mom Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:51:48 -0800 X-Message-Number: 24 On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:16:55 EST SClay10106@aol.com writes: > Couple quick questions about painting. I am not the greatest at it but I can > cover a surface nicely what color primer do you use and what difference does > it make? Id like to paint my KR-1 metalic blue. > As has already been pointed out, most KR's are light in color due to the heat buildup of colored paints in the sun. As far as primer recommendations, personally I won't prime my plane or any other again with anything but an epoxy primer. As a painting technique, it is recommended that you shoot a white paint on prior to the colors as the white paint will make the colors much more brilliant. Of course every coat is weight. Go lift some of those gallon cans, then figure how many of them you would like to be carrying on your plane. :o) Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Alternator wiring From: "John Aberasturi" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:3:51 X-Message-Number: 25 Richard Parker asked about a hooking up an alternator. It sounds like you have an internally regulated alternator. Most of these have two leads B+ and F. The B+ goes to the battery. Yes, the F (field) needs a power source to excite the coil...an alternater must have power to produce power, that is why you cannot push start a car that has an alternator with a DEAD battery. The easiest way to excite the field is to run a wire from the F terminal to a small dash/instrument panel light (in series) then to the ignition switch "on" terminal. When the switch is powered the light comes on using the alternator field as the ground, the light goes off once the alternator is produceing power. This works as an "idiot/warning" light, if the light is on then you're not getting any charging. Hope this helps, John Aberasturi KR2 rebuilder Nevada jauto@netscape.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting From: "John Aberasturi" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 23:2:35 X-Message-Number: 26 I have been a automotive painter for 15 years, at Ford dealerships and even had my own body shop before becoming a teacher. Recently, I've been painting a Husky for a local A&P. I'm not sure if the KR wood needs to "breathe" from both sides, but I think not. In this case I would recommend using a colored/tintable "sealer" before the first coat of paint. Some paint is porous and will let moisture in/out, so for automotive finishes a non porous sealer is used to protect the metal panel (it also provides a uniform base to paint over). Choose a sealer color close to your basecoat/paint color. Sealer has extremely high solids and covers quickly with a very thin coat. If you are painting the KR white and used grey,red, or black primer, then use a white sealer and you'll be able to paint your plane with only 1 to 2 coats of paint. The sealer is tintable to just about any color that you want, if you can find a paint supplier who offers this system. In the case of metallic blue, white base would be extremely difficult to cover, you would use way too much paint. Use a blue sealer and an experienced painter will get it covered in 1 wet coat of paint. This system will eliminate quite a few pounds of paint. Harbor Freight has a gravity feed paint gun for $50.00 that works great, it sprays with 10-20 psi eliminating most overspray/waste. It will pay for itself the first time you use it...I painted my dads '66 Ford P/U with 3 qts. of paint (even inside the bed). Good Luck, John Aberasturi Nevada Good Luck ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Landing Gear From: centinaro@totacc.com (Paul Centinaro) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 02:09:44 -0700 X-Message-Number: 27 I'm looking at alternative landing gear configurations. Since I'm in the planning stage, I can afford to keep all options open. I definitely want to use something other than the RR retract and was planning on the typical fixed gear option. Has anyone thought of using a unicycle landing gear system similar to the Europa for the KR? For those not familiar with the Europa design, it consists of one retractable main gear tire under the fuselage, two retractable wing supports (one for each wing), and a standard tail wheel. I'm wondering what would be the disadvantages (other than the limited space to stow the main upon retract). The advantages are less weight than the RR design and better aerodynamics. Also, has anyone installed a parachute recovery system? I consider this a must, especially in lieu of the recent crashes. I know, I know. I plan to build a top rate aircraft and don't plan to do any "hot-dogging" but this would give me added safety. Any ideas? Thanks Paul Centinaro --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com