From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: November 11, 1999 Date: Friday, November 12, 1999 12:22 AM KR-net users group Digest for Thursday, November 11, 1999. 1. Flight Gloss 2. Re: Painting 3. Re: Flight Gloss 4. Corvair mount 5. Landing gear options 6. Reticulated Foam for Fuel Tanks 7. Paint/ Color 8. Good bye all 9. Re: Painting 10. Re: looking for address 11. Don Betchan 12. Re: Don Betchan 13. Re: Painting 14. Re: Painting Weight 15. Re: Don Betchan 16. RE: Pushrods 17. Re: Painting 18. Re: What the &$%@#?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Flight Gloss From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:02:59 EST X-Message-Number: 1 Guys, flight gloss is not a water based paint, only Smooth Prime is. Poly Fiber is the manufacturer of both. Guys, watch out you're loosing builders and only keeping those who have been talking about building for years. I'll trust the guy who has glued the joint as opposed to the guy who tells everyone how to without ever doing it. Maybe you ought to put on the bottom of your post your % of completion. Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting From: "Ken Jordan" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 4:26:11 X-Message-Number: 2 You can paint your KR any color you want, IF you post cure the epoxy layups to about 250-300 degrees. If you don't have access to a large oven/autoclave to do a post cure, you should at least build a dark covered "solar oven". Using the sun to heat a dark 'tent' during the hottest summer days provides some additional cure for the epoxy. I'm new in Texas, but at the last EAA meeting there was a guy who does powder coat 'paint' and he has an oven that is 8'X 22'. My first reaction was 'WOW!' maybe I can get my wings, turtledeck, forward deck and horiz.stab/elevator post cured. If the temperature of the epoxy parts ever exceeds the post cure temperature, then the epoxy becomes pliable/weak and can fail. Lucky for me that my garage is on the south side of my house with brick on all sides except the doors. I did not measure the temp in there this summer, but it was was 100+ outside and I bet 130+ in the garage! Still not high enough, but... Regards, Ken J ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Flight Gloss From: "Ken Jordan" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 4:41:38 X-Message-Number: 3 Hi Dana, My suggestion of Flight Gloss for a waterborne paint system is based on a brochure written by PolyFiber itself. Here are several quotes from the brochure: 1)Like Superfil, Smooth Prime, and Silver Shield, Top Gloss is waterborne and therefore free of health and flammability worries. 2)Flight Gloss is tomorrow's system. It uses water as its base, not hazardous solvents. There's no fire danger, it thins and cleans up with plain water and there's no expensive Hazmat shipping involved. The section on Superfil says it is an epoxy-based filler, so PolyFiber may have some conflicts within their brochure. The PolyFiber website is at www.polyfiber.com, email info@polyfiber.com Regards, Ken J ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Corvair mount From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 05:23:43 PST X-Message-Number: 4 Hello, Netters For anybody interested in the Corvair installation, there is a good photo of what the mount looks like (but not on a KR) at: >The mount will be similar to the piet mount, but with out >the stand-off's. >http://www.omnispace.com/Corvair/barept.htm Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Landing gear options From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 05:59:40 PST X-Message-Number: 5 Paul wrote: >Has anyone thought of using a unicycle landing gear >system similar to the Europa for the KR? >I'm wondering what would be the disadvantages I have read that taxiing the Europa can be, shall we say, "fun" as compared to conventional or tricycle setups. For one thing you don't have the option of using differential braking for turns. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Reticulated Foam for Fuel Tanks From: "Capps Family" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:32:18 -0600 X-Message-Number: 6 To All, **************************************** Reticulated Foam for Fuel Tank Flame and Explosion Reduction aka Safety Foam - Trade Name "Foamex" Product Description - Fuel Safety Foam Sold in "Buns" of 8" x 44" x 110" Bun is approx. 294 sq. ft. Average price - $3.00 per board ft. plus S & H Color - grey for fuel tanks 29 PPI (pores per inch) Material - Reticulated Vinyl Foam Must be cut with a hot wire to retain "clean certification" (so vacuum and blow it off *real* well if you need to sand it a little to get it to fit; check your filters extra often for the first year) Sources: Pacific Foam POC - Stacey (714) 662-0277 $800.00 per bun plus $50.00 freight from Irvine, CA Minimum order - $150.00 Wilshire (213) 549-5444 Minimum order - $300 ******************************************* Blue Skies; Larry Larry A. Capps Naperville, IL cappsfan@ameritech.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Paint/ Color From: Laheze@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:50:26 EST X-Message-Number: 7 As mentioned before, POST CURING is great and best, but most will probably not do that so be very carefull with the colors you choose to paint your plane. Hand layed up normal air temperature curing of your parts will not allow you to safely paint in dark colors. The only thing that a KR2 has going for it over an all glass/exotic cloth structure is its WOODEN SKELETON. Your KR can still receive skin damage though and I will give you an example. I was standing with a friend of mine at his Defiant (aircraft) watching the airshow and leaning on his plane. He had both of his elbows on the canard with hands proping up his face while looking up. I was looking down at his canard when he moved and there were two dents in the canard surface where his elbows had been. Long story short, he had built his plane in Anchorage Alaska and certainly no post curing and had the plane there at Oshkosh where the temperature was a lot warmer than where it had been built or at least when it (canard) had been built. The result was, the resin system began to soften in the higher heat and the plane was painted white. My company made High Temperature under High Pressure carbon fiber spars for Quickie Aircraft a few years ago just for this reason. When they decided to use a 0200 engine which was a little heavier they had a sagging or drooping problem with the hand laid room temperature cured canard/landing gear. In other words they would soften when out in the sun just enough to let the canard sag down a little with the extra weight of the 0200 and then stay there. If these planes had been painted a dark color they would have surely went all the way to the ground. The parts we made were designed to stiffen the canard and keep the prop out of the dirt. The bottom line is that you should paint light colors unless you have POST CURED YOUR PARTS and even if you have post cured you can expect a lot higher temperatures in a dark painted plane. Larry Howell laheze@aol.com KR2 rebuilder, almost flyer Rockwall, Tx ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Good bye all From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:03:43 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 Good bye all I'm logging of KRnet permanently. Since Mike Mims now gets to decide who can be on this list, there's just no place here for me. Good bye, good luck, and keep building. WD --------------------------------------------------------- Wayne DeLisle Sr. Charlotte, North Carolina USA EAA # 545644 SAA # 1003 IAA # 118 mailto:dodger@accessnode.net http://accessnode.net/~dodger --------------------------------------------------------- Project Viking "Daring to venture forward from the Dark Ages" online FAQ/manual at http://www.evansville.net/~boeing/project_viking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting From: MARVIN MCCOY Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 19:45:37 -0800 X-Message-Number: 9 ---------------------- John: Is this a high volume low pressure system, or does it work with a regular compressor. The idea of using less paint (with less weight) sounds great. Marvin McCoy Seattle, WA. North end of Boeing field. --------------------- John Aberasturi wrote: > > Harbor Freight has a gravity feed paint gun for $50.00 that works great, it sprays with 10-20 psi eliminating most overspray/waste. It will pay for itself the first time you use it...I painted my dads '66 Ford P/U with 3 qts. of paint ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: looking for address From: Alastair Hawkins Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:03:04 -0800 X-Message-Number: 10 Sorry guys but I lost the email address for a fellow builder in Port Coquitlam. Could he please replay back privatly to me. Alastair Hawkins a_hawkins@telus.net Port Coquitlam, B.C. Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Don Betchan From: "Jody Wallace" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:14:43 PST X-Message-Number: 11 Can someone please forward an address or phone number for Don B. I had it once and lost it. I'm interested in the construction details of his retract system. Thank you Jody A. Wallace P.O. Box 114 Cicero, IN 46034 (317)984-3227 jwallace@logical123.net (home) jodywallace@hotmail.com (all world) cecai@indy.net (work) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Don Betchan From: "Ken Jordan" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 8:30:56 X-Message-Number: 12 Don B.s KR is the cover of the May 1998 KR Newsletter and gives his address and phone as: Don Betchan Rt.1, Box 21A Perry, OK 73077 Ph:405-336-5954 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting From: "John Aberasturi" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 8:41:38 X-Message-Number: 13 Marvin, The paint spray gun is a regular gravity feed gun, you can use your compressor (and it won't take a very big one). It is considered HPLV (high pressure low volume), but it is not the variety that your thinking of. I have used these and they stink...alot of orange peel and not enough control of paint and air; however, they do spray with under 5 psi and eliminate most/all overspray. If you're thinking of ordering this gun, get a air filter/h2o separator to put at the gun ($4.99). The gun comes with a pressure regulator and guage. I'm not certain how much less paint you would be actually putting on the plane with this gun, since you're spraying with such lower pressure than conventional siphon guns (which use 30-60+psi) you use less paint overall because you are eliminating most of the OVERSPRAY. Using the colored/tinted sealer is what will help you use less paint, because you don't have to cover/hide a different color. Good Luck, John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting Weight From: Horn2004@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:07:49 EST X-Message-Number: 14 In a message dated 11/10/99 11:43:32 PM, jscott.pilot@juno.com writes: <> If you're worried about the paint weight, don't judge this by the weight of a gallon of paint in the can. The weight you should be concerned about lies in the solids in the paint. If you were to open the can up and let all the "fluid" evaporate from the paint, the end result is the weight you should be concerned with. This is the weight you will be carrying around on your KR. Most of the paint (and the weight) will evaporate into the surrounding air leaving a thin film of colored solids on your aircraft. If you were to shoot lots of coats with a base coat, color coat, clear coat system, yeah, you might be looking at a pretty noticeable weight increase. Otherwise, 1-2 good wet coats shot with a little care should yield a nice finish without a big weight penalty. With a little practice you can produce a really nice finish. Perhaps if you must practice on your KR, start shooting the belly first. Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Don Betchan From: Kr2jm@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:08:53 EST X-Message-Number: 15 In a message dated 11/11/99 8:32:18 AM, kwjordan@dhc.net writes: << Don B.s KR is the cover of the May 1998 KR Newsletter and gives his address and phone as: Don Betchan Rt.1, Box 21A Perry, OK 73077 Ph:405-336-5954 >> Check the Phone area code, I think it is 580 not 405 Jim Morehead kr2jm@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Pushrods From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:58:06 -0300 X-Message-Number: 16 I received the images without problems and they come me very well to finish some things, since I had the idea of making them in a similar way. (I have double commands copied from the Pollywagen, with possibility of using negative ailerons (reflected) to avoid the moment of dive of the RAF 48 and also as flaperons in a 15-20° each one. If youare interested I send you a picture. Very grateful Eduardo emiglesias@cpenet.com.ar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Painting From: WilliamTCA@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:58:44 EST X-Message-Number: 17 Friends, Post curing is a very controlled process, not beyond homebuilders, but to be done with caution. Nothing with foam in it will live at much above 180F. This is why expensive kits use nomex cores in high temp autoclaves. Even if you plane is built of parts which were post cured at very high temps, you still cannot paint it a dark color. Just call Lancair and ask if you dont believe me. Thanks William ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: What the &$%@#?? From: "daddyt" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 22:52:49 -0800 X-Message-Number: 18 I am new to kr net and do not know what is going on between these two gentleman but i was hoping to learn some new ways of building an airplane , so i am not going to say any more abuot this subject and hope to soon see some good info from each man to help the rest of us . ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Taglieri To: KR-net users group Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:31 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: What the &$%@#?? > I think both of you have good ideas on KR-building, even if you're both > sometimes a bit quick with the flame-thrower. How about both of you > staying on the list and filtering anyone you like, but not broadcasting > the fact to everyone else? Then maybe we could get back to talking about > planes someday.... > > Mike Taglieri > > > >> Works for me. I've been filtering you for some time > >> now. I consider you to be one of the bigger > >> pains-in-the-ass on KRnet.... > > > >Once again you strike with your one line remarks! To > >what I thought was a good idea no less. I think maybe > >they booted the wrong person from the list yesterday.... > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: daddyt@peak.org > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com