From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: December 11, 1999 Date: Sunday, December 12, 1999 12:13 AM KR-net users group Digest for Saturday, December 11, 1999. 1. Re: Wing spar, brakes, carbs 2. wrong e-mail,sorry 3. Re: New Brakes 4. RE: wrong e-mail,sorry 5. Re: KR2S Speed -vs- Hp (2.2L DDSoob) 6. Total cost of KR2S? 7. Re: Max engine for KR2 8. Re: Spanish consultant 9. Gas sight guage 10. Re: Gas sight guage 11. Re: Gas sight guage 12. Re: Gas sight guage 13. Re: KR2S Speed -vs- Hp (2.2L DDSoob) 14. Re: Finish work 15. Re: VW spark plugs 16. Re: Wing spar 17. Re: grass landings 18. Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light 19. grass strips (sorry I hit return too quick on the other one) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar, brakes, carbs From: Tom Crawford Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 06:24:46 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1 Mike Mims wrote: > > Tom Crawford wrote: > > > > On the subject of carbs that has been rearing it's head lately- I have > > an Ellison. I like it a lot. Have you ever heard someone with an Ellison > > say that they are less than happy with it? You get what you pay for. > > Food for thought. > > > > Actually I have. On the larger displacement engines the Ellison is VERY > picky about how air enters it. I would say more than 50% of the pilots I > have talked too with a Lycoming or a Continental fueled by an Ellison > are un-happy with it. Most have reported a loss of max RPM as well as > MAP at full throttle. If you take a look at the Ellison website you can > see where they have tried to come up with a few band-aids to try and fix > this issue. On the other hand the guys in my hanger with Ellisons on > their VWs love them! > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > Actually, the Ellison is very picky about how air enters it on all engines. This fact is well documented in the installation manual, along with suggestions on how to plumb it properly. Any questions that I had on setting it up that were not covered in the manual were answered over the phone by Ben Ellison. I found him to be very eager to help me get my plane set up properly and safely. On having a loss of RPM at full throttle, I have found that if you pull the throttle back just a hair from full, you will get a slight increase in RPM. -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net http://www.tomshardwoodtoys.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: wrong e-mail,sorry From: "Rodolfo Pennini" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 4:18:20 X-Message-Number: 2 my real email is: rpennini@hotmail, please discards the previous one (pennini@hotmailcom) since I do not have access to (it has been an involuntary error of my part, excuse) Thank you very much. Regards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: New Brakes From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:47:30 EST X-Message-Number: 3 Guys, Bobby Muse asked me to expound on my "endorsement" of the new Great Plains brake system. I guess, as usual, when I find something that just flat out works I open my mouth. I'm posting this reply to Bobby on the KRnet. Bobby, they work the same way the Cleveland's do with a rotor and pads. I have them installed on my airplane and have done full power runups, taxing to get the brakes hot and have seen no creeping on runup or loss of braking power after the brakes are hot. This is the brake system that allows you to use a bolt type axle with the head of the "bolt" sitting flush inside the housing. All you do is bolt this housing to your Diehl attach fittings, or your own, put the floating pad bracket in place, slide the wheel on and you're off and running........or is that screeching to a halt. They are both lighter and less expensive than the Cleveland brakes. They, in my opinion, work better than the Clevelands in our applications. They are the cats meow:-) How's that Texas flying going? Has your Dad had any other problems with his new install? Dana ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: wrong e-mail,sorry From: "Capps Family" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:02:23 -0600 X-Message-Number: 4 Recomendar=EDa que si su serio sobre la construcci=F3n en compuesto, y qu= isiera un dise=F1o que es un concepto probado con conclu=EDdo 125 actualmente ba= jo construcci=F3n alrededor del mundo, yo recomendar=EDa altamente la VISI=D3= N. He incluido el Web site de los dise=F1adores y su email abajo. Dise=F1ador: Steve Rahm - Visionflyr@aol.com 210 CESSNA BLVD. UNIT 16 DAYTONA BEACH, FL. 32124 Phone 904 767 9691 FAX 904 767 2382 Home Page: http://visionaircraft.com/ " la visi=F3n le es tra=EDda por el avi=F3n american Affordable. Es un e= con=F3mico, 2 asienta, todo el avi=F3n compuesto que se construya de los manuales PRO= BADOS de la construcci=F3n. DISE=D1ADO PARA LOS CONSTRUCTORES de la PRIMERA VEZ= , este ejecutante rugoso ten=EDa un coste de la armadura de avi=F3n del prototip= o de menos de $6000,00 mientras que los costes de la materia prima todav=EDa s= e han levantado en el a=F1o pasado esto representa el mejor valor para el produ= cto disponible. Cada uno de los sub-ensambles parciales cost=F3 menos de $500= ,00 en el prototipo. =C9ste es un plano que se puede financiar realmente con = una tarjeta de cr=E9dito si est=E1 deseado. Est=E1 siendo construido por los constructores de la primera vez para probar los manuales de la construcci= =F3n y no se vendi=F3 ningunos manuales de la construcci=F3n hasta la prueba d= el prototipo. Hay actualmente varios bajo construcci=F3n. El plano es todo compuesto sin understructure de madera incompatible y no utiliza NING=DAN combustible que hace espuma el estireno susceptible. Si usted desea salva= r un poco en una compra manual inmediata y usted necesita una foto inspirar= , satisfacer env=EDe $17,00 al avi=F3n comprable americano o apenas lea en = y mire todas las paginaciones del cliente tambi=E9n. Tenemos conclu=EDdo 125 constructores alrededor del mundo tan cuando USTED vienen nos ensamblan? No lo ponga apagado. " - Americano Comprable Avi=F3n Blue Skies; Larry Larry A. Capps Naperville, IL capps@mediaone.net -----Original Message----- Subject: [kr-net] wrong e-mail,sorry my real email is: rpennini@hotmail, please discards the previous one (pennini@hotmailcom) since I do not have access to (it has been an involuntary error of my part, excuse) Thank you very much. Regards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2S Speed -vs- Hp (2.2L DDSoob) From: "James Nelson" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:19:33 -0500 X-Message-Number: 5 F=ma applies to accelerating objects in a vacuum. Drag force is in addition to the force required for acceleration. As the mass of a plane increases, the increased force on the wings to hold it up translates to additional drag, and additonal horsepower requirement (for lift) for any give speed, all else being equal, the relationship at any given speed being linear with weight- ie twice the weight translates to twice the power (for lift) required at that speed. This relationship neglects the drag that is not due to lift, which is not insignificant, and will become dominant in the power equation at some speed. The EQUATION F=ma has no bearing whatsoever on top speed of an airplane, except that it tells you that with less mass, you will be able to accelerate to your top speed faster. James ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Jordan To: KR-net users group Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 12:00 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: KR2S Speed -vs- Hp (2.2L DDSoob) > Thrust is a force. Drag is a force. Mr. Newton said > Force = mass X acceleration. Mass is involved somewhere! > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: nelsonjjjj@didactics.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Total cost of KR2S? From: "Rodolfo Pennini" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 9:8:37 X-Message-Number: 6 Which is the approximate total cost (including motor VW, helice and standard instruments) of the KR2S? Regards Rodolfo Pennini ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Max engine for KR2 From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:17:52 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 Herb: At the fly in in Kentuck there was a very nice Kr-2 with a subaru fitted with dave Johnson R drive. I believe the engine was an ea 82 which is a bit heavier than the 81. Subaru weight wet with r-drive runs about 220#. Should be no problem if the firewall is built as per 2s plans. W.G. KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: Herb Gearheart > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Max engine for KR2 > Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 7:35 PM > > Hi list > Have trade in works for Kr2 with subaru engine, type ea81. > Question: will this firewall handle that much weight? It has reduction > drive included. Herb in Ky > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Spanish consultant From: "w.g. kirkland" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:52:51 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 the french looks ok---but then I only speak french to englishmen who don'= t :) W.G. KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: Stefan B. > To: KR-net users group > Subject: [kr-net] Re: Spanish consultant > Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 6:25 AM >=20 > As far as the French is concerned, it is OK. >=20 > Mike Mims wrote: >=20 > > I want to fly my KR to Africa. > > > > Ich m=F6chte mein KR nach Afrika fliegen. > > > > Desidero pilotare il mio KR in Africa. > > > > Deseo volar mi KR a =C1frica. > > > > Je veux piloter mon KRr en Afrique. > > > > I dont know how accurate it is but Altavista has one > > too. Go to http://babelfish.altavista.com/ > > > > How about it? Do these translations look right? > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: stefan.balatchev@wanadoo.f= r > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-86210A@telelists.co= m >=20 >=20 > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: kirkland@vianet.on.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Gas sight guage From: RFG842@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:04:06 EST X-Message-Number: 9 Going to mark the sight guage on the instrument panel and wondered if it makes much difference if the fuselage is in level flying position or the tail is on the ground. (I've got a tail drager). Could argue merits of both positions. Anyone with suggestions???? Have not seen this on the net or in the manual before. Tnks, Bob PS Merry Christmas to all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Gas sight guage From: Ray Wallace Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:17:07 -0600 X-Message-Number: 10 Why not show both? On the left side of the sight gauge show markings for ground and on the right show markings for flight. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: To: KR-net users group Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 1:04 PM Subject: [kr-net] Gas sight guage > Going to mark the sight guage on the instrument panel and wondered if it > makes much difference if the fuselage is in level flying position or the tail > is on the ground. (I've got a tail drager). Could argue merits of both > positions. > > Anyone with suggestions???? Have not seen this on the net or in the manual > before. > > Tnks, Bob > > PS Merry Christmas to all. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rwallace@greatnorthern.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Gas sight guage From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:38:21 -0800 X-Message-Number: 11 On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:04:06 EST RFG842@aol.com writes: > Going to mark the sight guage on the instrument panel and wondered if it > makes much difference if the fuselage is in level flying position or the tail > is on the ground. (I've got a tail drager). Could argue merits of both > positions. > > Anyone with suggestions???? Have not seen this on the net or in the manual > before. > > Tnks, Bob > > PS Merry Christmas to all. > I calibrated my gauges with the plane in a level flight attitude as I thought I would be more concerned about fuel quantitiy while flying. The sending unit in my header tank is located at the aft end of the tank. It does make a difference whether I am climbing or descending for the readings, although it is minimal. With the capacitance type gauges, I also get a slightly different readings depending on the voltage as well, depending on whether the engine is turning fast enough for the generator to be charging or not. Higher voltage = a higher fuel level reading. If you are using a capacitance type gauge, I would advise calibrating the tank with a battery charger hooked up to your system, so your voltage is somewhere between 13.5 and 14V, which is roughly what your charging system will maintain during flight. This isn't critical, but will help you to set calibrate your tanks a bit more accurately. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Gas sight guage From: cartera Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:43:05 -0700 X-Message-Number: 12 RFG842@aol.com wrote: > > Going to mark the sight guage on the instrument panel and wondered if it > makes much difference if the fuselage is in level flying position or the tail > is on the ground. (I've got a tail drager). Could argue merits of both > positions. > > Anyone with suggestions???? Have not seen this on the net or in the manual > before. > > Tnks, Bob > > PS Merry Christmas to all. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com Sure here is my suggestion. Mark one side in level position and the other side in the three point position. Take a look at my website. -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2S Speed -vs- Hp (2.2L DDSoob) From: WilliamTCA@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:31:32 EST X-Message-Number: 13 Kent and friends, I intended my comments to be educational. F = M x A is true but you are barking up the wrong tree. The mass is the weight of the air which is being accelerated not the plane. In steady speed flight the mass of the plane is not experiencing any acceleration. thrust, the mass is the weight of the air the prop influences to accelerate Drag, the mass is the weight of the air which is accelerated by the planes passage through it. If you can go back to 1990 sport aviation for John Ronczs articles about the subject, they are very clear. Again the weight of a plane has almost nothing to do with top speed. Weight affects all parameters of flight performance, except glide ratio, but its affect on top speed is very, very small. I have a very good background on this stuff and anyone who has a question feel free to e mail me privately. thanks William ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Finish work From: GARYKR2@cs.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:59:43 EST X-Message-Number: 14 From a drag stand point, a fillet is only needed when the angle between two pieces is less than 90 degrees. Like on a Piper Cherokee where the top of the wing meets the fuselage. Gary Hinkle Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: VW spark plugs From: GARYKR2@cs.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:22:30 EST X-Message-Number: 15 I use auto plugs and auto wires and don't get any noise in my radios. When using the auto wires, the static will show up as soon as the wires start to go bad. With aircraft wires, the shielding will mask the "leaks" by sending them to ground. That's why a "wire tester box" is used to tell if a/c wires are good or not. So many ohms per foot. You will get a weak spark or misfire and not get static. [A&P school] Gary Hinkle Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Wing spar From: GARYKR2@cs.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:26:06 EST X-Message-Number: 16 I have to agree with Mike, ream the holes and next size up. Gary Hinkle Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: grass landings From: GARYKR2@cs.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:54:36 EST X-Message-Number: 17 I have used rough grass several times. Seems to handle OK for me. I'm on retracts. Gary Hinkle Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Physics, Heat, and Maybe Some Light From: "Walter Lounsbery" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:27:35 -0600 X-Message-Number: 18 Actually, I think Heat should be first in the Subject line of this email, but my point is to apply a bit of Physics to illuminate the subject of some Heat, and maybe spread some Enlightenment and cool tempers. It is really best to look at the true numbers, which is an item on my New Year's wish list. Now for the review, sparked by a few comments, but mostly by Ken Jordon, who said if F = M x A (F - force, M - mass, A - acceleration) what does Weight have to do with Speed? I think many people believe that induced drag is not a factor at high speed. And in fact you can use the same equation to query why the plane gets lift to oppose weight if it is not accelerating upwards. As many of us found out in college (generally on those excruciating mid-terms and finals), it is just too darn easy to abuse equations. I wouldn't even comment on this matter at all, but I hate to see abuse in any form. So let's look at the basic equations of aircraft lift and drag: CL = (2 x W)/(RHO x V x V x S) (CL - lift coefficient, W - weight, RHO - air density V - speed, S - Aircraft reference area) You can see that for a fixed weight, the lift coefficient is an inverse function of the square of the speed, at a constant altitude. Now for drag: CD = CD0 + (CL*CL)/(PI*e*AR) (CD - drag coefficient, CD0 - zero-lift drag coef., PI - match constant, e - "wing lift efficiency", AR - wing aspect ratio) This is the equation that everyone should appreciate the most, but generally for the wrong reasons. It is very tempting to think "Gee, lift coefficient is less than one, which is even smaller when squared. If the plane is flying fast, then lift coefficient is small, so the second term of the equation is almost negligible." You need to remember the first term of the equation is small, so that at LOW SPEED IT IS DEFINITELY NEGLIBLE. At high speed both terms are important, and the first one is a constant. So what do you control with weight? I sat through too many lectures by dumb tenured professors that did not appreciate this fact. So please keep in mind, I am not trying to embarass anyone here, just mathematically explain what you see in your airplanes. Unless you are a dumb tenured professor? Let me take a little more of your bandwidth. Power is: P = F x V (P - Power, F - Force, V - speed) Let's combine drag and power D = CD x S x RHO x V x V x 0.5 (D - drag) so P = (CD x S x RHO x 0.5) x V x V x V Notice that when CD is constant, power required is the cube of the speed! This is damn sensitive stuff! Put another way, a small change in CD will have a large impact on speed at constant power. This is why aircraft can be so sensitive to drag buckets and airfoil tailoring. Or to bugs on the wings and sloppy construction. I hope nobody thinks that weight is inconsequential compared to these things. Let me apologize for leaving out some constants and conversion factors in the preceeding equations! P. S. Ken, in all cases, for aircraft, F = M x A where air is the mass accelerated for both lift, drag, thrust, and sideforce. There is another equation where it is involved in all moments on the aircraft. Don't get me started on the importance of vorticity and viscosity... Walter Lounsbery POB 54266 Hurst, TX 76054 (817) 285-8520 Walt@Lounsbery.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: grass strips (sorry I hit return too quick on the other one) From: "Lon Boothby" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:17:34 X-Message-Number: 19 Thanks to all of you who responded to my questions about grass strips. I have gotten lots of good advice. I will remember the advice, if my dreams ever do come true. I am still looking for a project that someone started but ran out of steam on and would be interested in trading for a couple of 89 Yamaha four-wheelers. Thanks, Lon --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com