From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: December 14, 1999 Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:16 AM KR-net users group Digest for Tuesday, December 14, 1999. 1. Rand Robinson Web Site 2. Re: Rand Robinson Web Site 3. Re: Simulation? 4. brakes again 5. Re: Rand Robinson Web Site 6. Re: Rand Robinson Web Site 7. Re: KR2 for sale!! 8. Re: brakes again 9. Re: need info 10. Re: Max engine for KR2 11. Re: need info 12. Re: KR-2S cockpit space 13. weight vs speed 14. RE: grass landings 15. Re: KR2 for sale!! 16. Re: KR2 for sale!! 17. Re: A51: starters and alternators page? 18. weight vs. speed 19. Re: need info 20. Re: A51: starters and alternators page? 21. Right tool and you get progress ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Rand Robinson Web Site From: Elton6656@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:18:22 EST X-Message-Number: 1 Noticed it was down, just figured it was me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Rand Robinson Web Site From: "Fred C. Wendell" Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:39:47 -0500 X-Message-Number: 2 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "KR-net users group" Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 4:18 AM Subject: [kr-net] Rand Robinson Web Site > Noticed it was down, just figured it was me. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: fcwndl1@twcny.rr.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Simulation? From: Eugene Israelsen Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:29:01 -0800 X-Message-Number: 3 Walter Lounsbery wrote: > > I want to thank everyone for their comments on my message about the > "math of drag". When I get home this evening I hope to have some time > to add to the discussion. There were definitely some good ideas. And > to think that I haven't even SEEN these equations for a good five > years! Now if I can only remember where I put the car keys. > > Has anyone seen the specs on the new Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000? > > According to the box, the "Pro" version allows you to enter the numbers > for any aircraft, so you can simulate anything. If a KR-2 could be > produced in this simulation, it would be very interesting! People who > are concerned about handling might be able to get some impression of > the plane. > > What do you think? > > ===== > Walter Lounsbery > day (972) 432-3621 > evening (817) 285-8520 > Walt@Lounsbery.com > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: GLB@cc.usu.edu > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: brakes again From: "Oscar Zuniga" Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 05:47:25 PST X-Message-Number: 4 Hi, folks Several people expressed interest in Tracy O'Brien's brakes and related stuff for KRs and other experimentals, so I scanned his 4-page flyer/catalog and put up a web page for anybody who's interested. I also scanned Great Plains' page from their catalog, showing the hydraulic brake they offer. I think it's the same unit, but could be wrong. Go to http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/temp/brake.html to see it. Give it a little time to load; in order to make it readable, I had to use enough resolution and that made the scans a bit larger than I'd like. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Rand Robinson Web Site From: DThomas773@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:38:43 EST X-Message-Number: 5 I tried twice last night and had the same problem. Dennis Thomas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Rand Robinson Web Site From: Marty Hammersmith Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:05:47 -0500 X-Message-Number: 6 Yes, I've been trying for the past two days to reaquaint myself with the KR and the RR site does appear to be down. Actually I can't seem to connect to that server. Mike Mims wrote: > > I noticed the Rand Robinson web site has been down for a couple of days. > Anyone else notice this? > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( > http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ > mirror @ > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > http://members.home.com/mikemims/ > Aliso Viejo CA > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: baleco@worldnet.att.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com -- Marty Hammersmith http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/1071 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2 for sale!! From: Marty Hammersmith Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:09:39 -0500 X-Message-Number: 7 Larry, I mean absolutely NO DISRESPECT of any kind here but I for one would be very leary of buying your aircraft. 10 hours of taxi time? You never flew it? I'd also be concerned about 1600cc's being enough to fly the plane. And, I do believe it does have to be all signed off again. I only bring all this up so that maybe you can help explain away these points in an effort to help sell your plane. Good luck to you and I am very sorry to hear you have lost your medical. Mike Mims wrote: > > Larry & Dorothy Jones wrote: > > > > Lost Medical! Must Sell! 1997 KR2 tail dragger. 1600 VW engine > > complete rebuild. Signed off as airworthy 7/97. 10 hours on aircraft, > > all taxi time. Complete and ready to fly. $8,000. > > Contact Larry Jones, Mora, MN 55051. 320 679-5980 email address > > jones@ncis.com > > FWIW Because you didn't fly off the restriction hours within two years > of it being signed off the entire process will have to be done again. > > -- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > Micheal Mims > Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( > http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ > mirror @ > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ > http://members.home.com/mikemims/ > Aliso Viejo CA > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: baleco@worldnet.att.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com -- Marty Hammersmith http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/1071 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: brakes again From: David Mullins Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:13:07 -0500 X-Message-Number: 8 Oscar,=20 The two brake systems are different. I purchased Tracy O'Brians set up complete with axles for about $350. Tracy's brakes have a finned disc with a full circle brake pad on both sides of the disc. Great plans is like a car brake system with a caliper and small brake pads on each side of the disc. On your web page scans can you set up your scanner to descreen the pictures? It will get rid of the moir=E9 pattern in the pictures. If not = I can scan them in and forward them to you descreened. Dave Mullins Nashua, New Hampshire mailto:dmullins@ici.net Oscar Zuniga wrote: >=20 > Hi, folks >=20 > Several people expressed interest in Tracy O'Brien's brakes and related > stuff for KRs and other experimentals, so I scanned his 4-page > flyer/catalog and put up a web page for anybody who's interested. I al= so > scanned Great Plains' page from their catalog, showing the hydraulic br= ake > they offer. I think it's the same unit, but could be wrong. >=20 > Go to http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/temp/brake.html to see it. Gi= ve it > a little time to load; in order to make it readable, I had to use enoug= h > resolution and that made the scans a bit larger than I'd like. >=20 > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, Oregon > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ >=20 > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >=20 > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: dmullins@ici.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: need info From: "Richard McCall" Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:58:25 -0600 X-Message-Number: 9 scott, I am in Harker Heights, about 60 miles from Austin at the Killeen Airport. My KR2S is in approximately the same condition as yours, except my engine is a Subaru 2.2 Legacy. Rich McCall ----- Original Message ----- From: To: KR-net users group Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 10:19 PM Subject: [kr-net] Re: need info > Hello, > > I am building a KR2S right now I am in Austin. I have my boat on gear and I > am building the wings now. Just put on the engine mount and engine cowl. I > have everything I need to finish my plane less instruments,canopy and paint. > I am in for 6.5k right now. Yes that includes a turbo 2180 cc engine. > > > Regards > Scott > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: planecraft@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Max engine for KR2 From: "Richard McCall" Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:08:05 -0600 X-Message-Number: 10 Herb, If you are building per 2S plans, then the firewall will be sufficient. Rich McCall ----- Original Message ----- From: Herb Gearheart To: KR-net users group Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 6:35 PM Subject: [kr-net] Max engine for KR2 > Hi list > Have trade in works for Kr2 with subaru engine, type ea81. > Question: will this firewall handle that much weight? It has reduction > drive included. Herb in Ky > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: planecraft@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: need info From: Elton6656@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:00:21 EST X-Message-Number: 11 Anyone in SW Ohio, I'm between Dayton and Columbus and haven't really had a good chance to look over a KR........... Thx Elton Cultice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR-2S cockpit space From: WA7YXF@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:23:45 EST X-Message-Number: 12 Pierre You might have to face the fact that the KR might not be the plane for you. Many modifications have been made and almost never can the weight and performance of the original design be improved. Everyone changes something, its funny I had to narrow the fuselage down to find the design I wanted. Lynn Hyder WA7YXF ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: weight vs speed From: Richard Selix Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:48:37 -0800 X-Message-Number: 13 There has been alot of discourse regarding whether weight affects speed. The fact is weight affects climb speed and rate, and weight increases stall speed significantly. However, at high speed level cruise, weight is relatively insignificant, but does have some effect on speed due to increased induced drag. Let's take an airplane that weighs 1275at gross, and then 975 # after flying for awhile and dropping off a passenger. This aircraft has a wetted area of 325 sqft., and a drag count of.005 (which is typical of well made slick homebuilts using laminar flow wing sec- tions.We will fly at 7500, at .75 power (100 hp engine) Propeller effeciency is .85 Span efficiency is .80 and span is 26.08333 Ft. The best way to estimate top speed is by using the Flap plate drag area in the following formula (FPA= wetted area / drag count) (348.642 X HP X Prop. Eff. / ( Rho X Fpa )) ^1/3 = top speed (348.642 X 75 X .85 / ..0018975 X 1.625)) ^1/3 = 193.17 MPH. We have to go further, however, as this speed does not consider induced drag caused by weight. The following equation will produce the induced drag FPA equivalent for each weight. we then add that to the original FPA and run the equation for the correct speeds at the different weights. .274909 / span eff. X (weight / ( span X Rho X mph^2))^2 = . .274909 / .8 X (1275 / (26.08333 X .0018975 X 193.17 ^2)) ^2 = .1637838 .274909 / .8 X (975 / (26.08333 X .0018975 X 193.17 ^2)) ^2 = .0957766 The flat plate drag for the heavy plane now is: 1.625+.1637838= 1.7887838 The flat plate drag for the light plane now is: 1.625+ .0957766 = 1.7207766 (348.642 X 75 X .85 / (.0018975 X 1.7887838)) ^1/3 = 187.08548 MPH. (348.642 X 75 X .85 / (.0018975 X 1.7207766)) ^1/3 = 189.51832 MPH. Not quite 2.5 mph slower with 300 more pounds of weight.!!! I hope this helps, Richard Selix mailto:rselix@earthlink.net . : . ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: grass landings From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:00:17 -0300 X-Message-Number: 14 Lon In our EAA chapter 722 we have a nice grass airstrip, and our KR an KR2 (two aircraft) landed there without problems many times. Regards Eduardo Argentina emiglesias@cpenet.com.ar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2 for sale!! From: Larry & Dorothy Jones Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:30:25 -0800 X-Message-Number: 15 In regard to the questions I have had as to why I am selling my plane and how I got it, here goes. The reason I have so little time on the KR2 is because of my heart conditon. I'm really not legal to fly it. I had a heart attack last year, so I sold the airplane that I had which was a Darter 100. Then I started to feel better, so I decided to look for an experimental. I bought this aircraft from the builder about 8 months ago. It was completely built with the engine being completely rebuilt. I have not done anything to the plane myself. The aircraft has no damage history. The builder had a bad car accident after completing the plane so he had to sell it. I went to the KR gathering in Kentucky this summer to learn more about the KRs and maybe get a little duel in. But as my condition has not gotten any better, I decided to sell the plane rather than let it grow old in the hanger. All the paper work was done before I bought the plane. The N number for those who have asked for it is 1140V. As for any other requirements that the aircraft needs, I don't know about that as this is my first time that I have had a non production aircraft. The KR2 is a fixed gear tail dragger. Larry Jones, 1894 Bachelor Road, Mora, MN 55051 (320) 679-5980 > >Lost Medical! Must Sell! 1997 KR2 tail dragger, 1600 VW engine > >complete rebuild. Signed off as airworthy 7/97. 10 hours on aircraft, > >all taxi time. Complete and ready to fly. $8,000. > >If interested, contact Larry Jones, Mora, MN 55051 (320) 679-5980 or by email at jones@ncis.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: KR2 for sale!! From: Larry & Dorothy Jones Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:33:46 -0800 X-Message-Number: 16 Larry Jones wrote: > > In regard to the questions I have had as to why I am selling my plane > and how I got it, here goes. The reason I have so little time on the > KR2 is because of my heart conditon. I'm really not legal to fly it. I > had a heart attack last year, so I sold the airplane that I had which > was a Darter 100. Then I started to feel better, so I decided to look > for an experimental. I bought this aircraft from the builder about 8 > months ago. It was completely built with the engine being completely > rebuilt. I have not done anything to the plane myself. The aircraft > has no damage history. The builder had a bad car accident after > completing the plane so he had to sell it. I went to the KR gathering > in Kentucky this summer to learn more about the KRs and maybe get a > little duel in. But as my condition has not gotten any better, I > decided to sell the plane rather than let it grow old in the hanger. > All the paper work was done before I bought the plane. The N number for > those who have asked for it is 1140V. As for any other requirements > that the aircraft needs, I don't know about that as this is my first > time that I have had a non production aircraft. > The KR2 is a fixed gear tail dragger. > Larry Jones, 1894 Bachelor Road, Mora, MN 55051 (320) 679-5980 > > > >Lost Medical! Must Sell! 1997 KR2 tail dragger, 1600 VW engine > > >complete rebuild. Signed off as airworthy 7/97. 10 hours on aircraft, > > >all taxi time. Complete and ready to fly. $8,000. > > >If interested, contact Larry Jones, Mora, MN 55051 (320) 679-5980 or by email at jones@ncis.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: A51: starters and alternators page? From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:53:11 -0800 X-Message-Number: 17 > Somebody needs to bludgeon the KRNet newbies about personal email (buying a > plane, who's nearby, etc...) but I REFUSE to do it! > As a KR-Net Mom, I'll remind everyone to please try to keep the personal e-mail to a minimum. If you are replying to somebody's "For Sale" advertisement, please reply directly to the sender and NOT to all 500 on the KR-Net. The rest of us really don't need to see your negotiations. The same is true for the "Me Too" replies. I don't know how many of those I saw about the Rand Web page being off line. Please try to be bit more thoughtful about the address you are mailing to, otherwise we'll bring up the subject of making the replies go back to the sender rather than the KR-Net. Regards, Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: weight vs. speed From: Richard Selix Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:25:02 -0800 X-Message-Number: 18 Netters: I note that I made a mistake in my recent e-mail regarding weight vs. speed. The equation for the FPA should be wetted area X drag count (.005), not devided by drag count. Sorry, Richard Selix mailto:rselix@earthlink.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: need info From: USAUS@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:28:39 EST X-Message-Number: 19 Richard, I am up your way with the kids soccer games all the time. Let me know if you would like to take a look at my project. I am actually in Pflugerville just North of Austin. Regards Scott ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: A51: starters and alternators page? From: USAUS@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:38:16 EST X-Message-Number: 20 I agree. Like the ones that state "Somebody needs to bludgeon the KRNet newbies about personal email (buying a > plane, who's nearby, etc...) but I REFUSE to do it!" I agree it's a big waist of all our very valuable time. I refuse to as well. peace ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Right tool and you get progress From: WHin77@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:55:25 EST X-Message-Number: 21 The lessons continue in the WAF, (Wendy's Aircraft Factory), I have just moved my 80 yr old Dad back to California, it wouldn't have much to do with the WAF, but he comes with a 5th wheel camper chucked full of cabinet tools. I was trying to make gussets with my chop saw when I launched one through the WAF's window. Dad was attracted by the commotion, "what the H*** are you doing?" After considering the event, he appeared at my work bench with a 50 to 60 yr old hand miter box saw with a 30" blade. It works, and looks like a chop saw except the box hand saw. He says "it hasn't been sharpened for forty years," but it ought to be better than a chop saw. So I took it down to get sharpened. The thing is amazing, it's a quantum jump in accuracy, and faster! I started framing the second side at 4 this afternoon, its all cut out with about 10 or so gussets cut. I measure twice now and cut once. I can test the angle cuts all the way across the stock and cut to absolute length. So guys, I haven't seen a full out miter box at home depot, just the cheesy 45 degree plastic jobs. But if you find one, it works better than the standard chop saw. Now I'm getting real interested in the other tools he has hidden in his camper. He has been a wood working mind trust. Wendell (Wendy) Hinman whin77@aol.com --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com