From: "KR-net users group digest" To: "kr-net digest recipients" Subject: kr-net digest: December 24, 1999 Date: Saturday, December 25, 1999 12:14 AM KR-net users group Digest for Friday, December 24, 1999. 1. Re: Skinning the fuselage 2. Friday. 3. Re: Skinning the fuselage 4. Re: Instument Panel 5. [Fwd: Merry Christmas] 6. Re: Skinning the fuselage 7. my re. to skipper 8. Re: Spruce treatment-ENOUGH! 9. Re: my re. to skipper 10. Re: Spruce treatment-ENOUGH! 11. Re:Merry Christmas & Happy New Year 12. Re:Merry Christmas & Happy New Year 13. Re: Spruce treatment-ENOUGH! 14. Christmas 15. servo trim tabs 16. Re: servo trim tabs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Skinning the fuselage From: Mike Mims Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 03:46:20 -0800 X-Message-Number: 1 David Goodman wrote: > > Gents, I just finished both sides of my boat. The next step seems to be > one of some debate out there... do I glue the plywood on before or after I > begin to bend the sides and glue the cross braces in place? > > Zipper Goodman Zipper, I don't think it really matters. I built up my frame and added the plywood later. I did this because I was a one man show and I thought it would be easier to bend the sides to the shape I needed without the plywood skin attached. Either way you will see the banana boat syndrome. After watching my hanger mate bend his sides to shape (he installed plywood before assembling the sides) I was glad I did it the way I did. His sides were much harder (but not really that difficult) to bend. Like I said, either way will work and either way is work! :o) FWIW: If your sides are built don't worry about the banana boat thing its no big deal but,, if you are still getting ready to build the sides you can build them so as to avoid the banana shape. Contact Mark Langford or Mark Lougheed on how to do this, its not really anymore work than building it to plans. -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Micheal Mims Sanding and Filling AGAIN! :o( http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ mirror @ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4136/ http://members.home.com/mikemims/ Aliso Viejo CA ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Friday. From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 07:51:01 EST X-Message-Number: 2 Since it is "Fun Friday" I'll send this personal note. MERRY CHRISTMAS to all you KRNetters. Couple of thoughts here, Thanks to all who made the KR Gathering the nice event that it was. Those of you who helped out, a special thanks goes out to you guys. Not to start a bid process for the 2001 gathering (since it is decided at the gathering and not on the KRNet), whoever gets it, you gotta have help, but boy is it fun. I'll be sending the reservation information the first week of the new year. Congrats to all those who were able to fly their KR's for the first time in 1999, a good "atta boy" comes your way. It sure looks like we are going to have a bunch of the KRNet airplanes fly this year..........mine included.......I ain't ripping the wings off again...........this year...... Remember guys, we are in essence a small town here. Respect your neighbor, help him out when he needs it, congratulate him on a job well done, don't criticize, throw up a hand up when you pass, and most important No smart aleck remarks needed. All you do is pis# off, or get pis#ed on. It makes life in the small town a whole lot better. Kinda like the local hardware store I go to. You go pick out the bolts, washers and nuts you need, go up the counter and tell the girl......six @ .11, six @ .06 and six @ .04. WOOHOO, it's snowing here..................White Christmas...............it doesn't get any better:-) Dana Overall 2000 Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Skinning the fuselage From: Donald Reid Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 08:03:54 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3 David Goodman wrote: > > Gents, I just finished both sides of my boat. The next step seems to be > one of some debate out there... do I glue the plywood on before or after I > begin to bend the sides and glue the cross braces in place? I bent after putting on the plywood. It was no trouble at all. I do not agree that you need to bend a little and then wait for things to stabilize. The stress levels that you introduce into the fuselage are small and not a concern. -- Don Reid Bumpass, Va. mailto:donreid@erols.com KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Ultralights at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Instument Panel From: "Mark Langford" Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 08:11:40 -0600 X-Message-Number: 4 Rick Hubka wrote: > In regards to Instruments panel. The plans don't really define an exact > forward/aft position. For a KR-2S, could a few builders using DF Canopies > send me location measurements for/aft and the height of the instument panel > referencing above and below the top of the longeron. Rick, Check out the picture at the bottom of http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kpanel.html for excruciating details of how I did my panel. I apologize for the hundredths in the dimensions, but it was set that way and I was too lazy to change it. The reason there are no nice round numbers is because I did this with bspline curves, rather than a series of radiuses. It was easier to just let the software make a nice curve "on the fly", but it approximates the firewall shape. The 7" dimension is from longeron top to top of panel. I got that by scaling off of the RR side view KR2S drawing. It hangs down 2" below the top of the longeron, and I still have loads of leg room below. My panel is located 24.375 inches from the front end of the fuselage which is to say that it is positioned so that it could be fastened at the bottom to the forward edge of the forward main spar vertical. I'm using the Dragonfly canopy (or is that canapee?) The dotted line at the bottom is a bend line. Bending back 90 degrees here eliminates the sharp edge that could cut my legs off in a crash, and really strengthens the panel in all directions for a few ounces of extra aluminum. This ledge also makes a handy place for a buss bar, mounting relays or terminal strips, or mounting headphone jacks, etc. I'm building my panel now, and have all of the instruments in except the Engine Information System, which I'm waiting on till the engine is in. The aluminum panel you see on the web page was a prototype. The bottom drawing is the latest, and will be cut in the next week or so... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: [Fwd: Merry Christmas] From: Mark Jones Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 09:23:35 +0000 X-Message-Number: 5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CB6E0F43434D405B24CDF6D8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------CB6E0F43434D405B24CDF6D8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <386320E2.1300151E@execpc.com> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 07:29:39 +0000 From: Mark Jones X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD EXECPC-45 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KR Net Subject: Merry Christmas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Netters, I would like to take this opportunity, since it's not just Friday, but a very special time of the year, to wish all of you a MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR. I joined the KR-Net during 1999 and have made many good friends, both personal and on-line. To all of you, I thank you for all the expertise, support and encouragement you have given me in the building process of of my 2S. I would like to finish my plane in 2000 but being realistic, it will probably be 2001. But you never know, I just might really get motivated and get it done in 2000. Everyone on the KR-Net is of value. We all have information to give to someone else. There has been some controversy between opinions which has led to heated comments. This is the time of the year to forget and forgive and to set new goals and resolutions. Let' all do this with special emphasis on the KR family values. My new year resolution will be to put as much time as possible in my KR-2S construction along with a few other resolutions. Bet the one on the KR wins out!!! Wishing you all a Very Merry Christmas Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage --------------CB6E0F43434D405B24CDF6D8-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Skinning the fuselage From: "Edwin Blocher" Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 14:07:55 -0600 X-Message-Number: 6 Zipper, I widened my fuselage 3" at both spars on the top and then squared the sides from the front spar back. The firewall is also widened by about 2" with a slight taper top to bottom. I then spaced and clamped down the top longeron and added all cross members so now the top is 3" wider and the bottom 8"+/-. The plywood goes on great, bottom 8' section with a friend helping took 40 minutes to glue and staple, 8' side section with my wife helping to spread the glue took 40 minutes. If I didn't some arthritis in my spapling wrist it would have gone quicker. The T88 will give you almost an hour to get the staples in at 65 degrees F. I stapled over 1/8" nylon rope which was taped in place and the staples were sprayed with a paintable mold release (thanks Mark for helping me come up with this idea) for ease of pulling. One other thing for today. About a month ago I sent Mark Langford a message and included that I was still looking for a Corvair engine and within 2 hours I was the proud owner of a '67, 110 hp. engine in it's orriginal wrapper. Ask and you don't know how fast things will happen. Happy Hollidays, Ed Blocher Moody, AL mailto:ed_blocher@msn.com Check out all the latest on my home page. http://homepages.msn.com/Terminus/edsKR/ -----Original Message----- From: David Goodman To: KR-net users group Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 1:23 AM Subject: [kr-net] Skinning the fuselage >Gents, I just finished both sides of my boat. The next step seems to be >one of some debate out there... do I glue the plywood on before or after I >begin to bend the sides and glue the cross braces in place? Looking at >photos of other KRs, it would appear that the sides bow to the classic >banana boat shape during this bending. If the plywood is put on first will >it prevent this bending? If so, will it damage the longerons due to >excessive resistance? In either case, will I need to use the steam/hot >towel trick again to affect this bending, and if so, how does this affect >the plywood if it is already glued to the sides? > >I am planning to glue the plywood on before bending as I am a one man >operation here and it seems to be easier to do. Additionally, I intend to >keep the sides straight until aft of the seat to reduce drag and increase >shoulder room. I just want to make sure I understand what I am doing and >what the ramifications are prior to proceeding. Thank you in advance for >the help. > >Zipper Goodman >zipperts@whidbey.net > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: ed_blocher@email.msn.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: my re. to skipper From: "Edwin Blocher" Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 14:24:41 -0600 X-Message-Number: 7 Now that I have widened the fuselage 8"+/- at the bottom I think I should lengthen the center spar the same to keep the wing area the same. Anyone have thoughts on this. My gross will be pushing 1200# and I feel that I should keep the wing loading approx. the same. I'm very happy with the way the fuselage turned out, all longerons straight, no twist, and no bannana shape. Ed Blocher Moody, AL mailto:ed_blocher@msn.com Check out all the latest on my home page. http://homepages.msn.com/Terminus/edsKR/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Spruce treatment-ENOUGH! From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:54:00 +0000 X-Message-Number: 8 I agree, use epoxy, or as recommended by old timers... spar varnish on your wood to seal it. -- Regards Ross Horn2004@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/21/99 10:50:13 AM, rwallace@intellisys.net writes: > > <> > > As Mike Mimms said earlier ... why would you want to do this? > > Before you go soaking your wood in all sorts of chemical treatments, you > should probably spend several years conducting extensive testing with the > chemical engineers at the epoxy manufacturer. I've never heard of a KR > airframe failing due to extensive dry rot of any sort. If you seal your wood > properly with either varnish or epoxy, soaking your wood in vats of > God-knows-what is ridiculous! If you are that uncomfortable with wood, I > would strongly recommend that you switch to either a metal airplane or a > composite airplane. > > This whole discussion, I'm afraid, is rather misleading to any newbies who > may be considering building a KR. > > Steve Horn > horn2004@aol.com > Dallas, TX > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: rossy@teleport.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: my re. to skipper From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:42:01 -0800 X-Message-Number: 9 On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 14:24:41 -0600 "Edwin Blocher" writes: > Now that I have widened the fuselage 8"+/- at the bottom I think I should > lengthen the center spar the same to keep the wing area the same. Anyone > have thoughts on this. My gross will be pushing 1200# and I feel that I > should keep the wing loading approx. the same. I'm very happy with the way > the fuselage turned out, all longerons straight, no twist, and no bannana > shape. > Ed Blocher > Moody, AL > mailto:ed_blocher@msn.com > Check out all the latest on my home page. > http://homepages.msn.com/Terminus/edsKR/ > Ed, Just my opinion, but longer wings add more stress to the spar at the edges of the fuselage, especially with the higer gross. The KR-2S wings are already longer than the stock wings. I doubt that the difference in wing area is going to make much of a difference unless you plan to spend a lot of time around 10,000+ feet of altitude. I don't know if you were on the net when Martin Roberts and Jean Veron swapped wings and did some testing with the stock KR-2 (short) wings and the Diehl wings on that same plane. If I remember the results correctly, both wings flew about the same up to 5000 feet. The longer wing flew better at the higer altitude. The difference in length of these two wings is much more significant than the 8" you might be missing. Jean is here on the net, so maybe he can repost some of their test results. BTW, my gross is at 1200# and I was cruising up at 13,000 feet today looking over some ski areas in Southern Colorado. Why? Because I can. :o) Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Spruce treatment-ENOUGH! From: WilliamTCA@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 19:59:32 EST X-Message-Number: 10 Merry Christmas friends, I own a wooden airplane that is older then the oldest KR2. My Pietenpol was built in the 1960s and was built of Spruce protected only with varnish. It was lived in open hangars most of its life in places as different as Hawaii, Michigan and Florida. It has had a rough life, included having the landing gear removed twice by the versatile tool ground impact. I believe that it was glued together with Resorcinol. The Pietenpol and the KR are similar in method of construction and being "over built." I recovered parts of my plane and the wood is in fine shape. Barring things like mouse infestations, wooden planes with varnish will out live you. If the wood is protected with epoxy it wont matter what mice do or what your climate is. I have built many wooden boats from INTERIOR grade plywood, and as long as it is sealed with epoxy it is OK to submerge them. Thus I would never worry about an epoxied piece of wood in an airplane rotting. What would concern me is treating the wood with something what would act as a release agent on glue joints. Many of the chemical treatments mentioned have been proven out in marine construction BUT traditionally built boats are held together with mechanical fasteners, not glue joints. My marine background also tells me that non of these treatments can match epoxy encapsulation for rot protection. There is nothing wrong or unproven about wooden aircraft construction and epoxy has only made it better. No one should be deterred from building a wooden airplane by unfounded worries of rot. Thanks William ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re:Merry Christmas & Happy New Year From: "L.Palaniappan" Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 09:43:15 +0800 X-Message-Number: 11 Hello Friends

Wishing you and your familys a very Happy Christmas and
prosperous new Year.

may you be bestowed with more health, wealth and happiness
next year.

LPalani & Family
From Sunny Malaysia.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re:Merry Christmas & Happy New Year From: John Esch Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 18:53:23 -0800 X-Message-Number: 12 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D73DFBCA582BFD3DD8F2B14C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't forget more KR building too! John F. Esch Salem, OR "L.Palaniappan" wrote: > > Hello Friends > > Wishing you and your familys a very Happy Christmas and > prosperous new Year. > > may you be bestowed with more health, wealth and happiness > next year. > > LPalani & Family > >From Sunny Malaysia. > --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: jfesch@home.com To > unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com --------------D73DFBCA582BFD3DD8F2B14C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="jfesch.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for John Esch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jfesch.vcf" begin:vcard n:Esch;John x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:jfesch@home.com fn:John F. Esch end:vcard --------------D73DFBCA582BFD3DD8F2B14C-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Spruce treatment-ENOUGH! From: cartera Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 21:28:00 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 WilliamTCA@aol.com wrote: > > Merry Christmas friends, > > I own a wooden airplane that is older then the oldest KR2. My Pietenpol was > built in the 1960s and was built of Spruce protected only with varnish. It > was lived in open hangars most of its life in places as different as Hawaii, > Michigan and Florida. It has had a rough life, included having the landing > gear removed twice by the versatile tool ground impact. I believe that it > was glued together with Resorcinol. > > The Pietenpol and the KR are similar in method of construction and being > "over built." I recovered parts of my plane and the wood is in fine shape. > Barring things like mouse infestations, wooden planes with varnish will out > live you. If the wood is protected with epoxy it wont matter what mice do or > what your climate is. I have built many wooden boats from INTERIOR grade > plywood, and as long as it is sealed with epoxy it is OK to submerge them. > Thus I would never worry about an epoxied piece of wood in an airplane > rotting. > > What would concern me is treating the wood with something what would act as a > release agent on glue joints. Many of the chemical treatments mentioned have > been proven out in marine construction BUT traditionally built boats are held > together with mechanical fasteners, not glue joints. My marine background > also tells me that non of these treatments can match epoxy encapsulation for > rot protection. > > There is nothing wrong or unproven about wooden aircraft construction and > epoxy has only made it better. No one should be deterred from building a > wooden airplane by unfounded worries of rot. > > Thanks William > > --- > You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: cartera@cuug.ab.ca > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com Hear, Hear. Merry Christmas to All! -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Christmas From: John Roffey Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 00:30:40 -0600 X-Message-Number: 14 Merry Christmas to all KR Netters. Let us know what Santa left under the tree for your KR. John Roffey jeroffey@tir.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: servo trim tabs From: "Christopher Stewart" Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 21:49:3 X-Message-Number: 15 first of all Merry Christmas to everyone, does anyone know where the info is on the RC model servo trim tabs is? i remember seeing something about somewhere ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: servo trim tabs From: WA7YXF@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 01:00:31 EST X-Message-Number: 16 David fieger in John Day , Ore had an article in the KR news some time back.. I could dig it up for you... Lynn Hyder WA7YXF Redmond, Oregon --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to kr-net as: johnbou@ipinc.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-kr-net-110995W@telelists.com