From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 10 Apr 2000 12:49:48 -0000 Issue 9 Date: Monday, April 10, 2000 4:50 AM krnet Digest 10 Apr 2000 12:49:48 -0000 Issue 9 Topics (messages 153 through 171): Re: Fuel pump dilemma 153 by: AviationMech.aol.com 161 by: Joe Beyer Batts. 154 by: Tim Bellville Re: hypothetical question... 155 by: Patrick Flowers 157 by: GARYKR2.cs.com 166 by: JEHayward.aol.com 169 by: jscott.pilot.juno.com progress- N2069Z 156 by: Oscar Zuniga Inlet Manifold length? 158 by: Leigh Re Fuel Pump Dilema 159 by: Leigh Electric Elevator Trim 160 by: Leigh 165 by: Christopher Stewart RR Premoulded Wing Skins / Cowling Attachment 162 by: Todd Servaes KR Performance and Weight 163 by: Todd Servaes hypo ? 164 by: shannon spurgeon Gyros 167 by: Rene Lemelin Encoder magic? 168 by: Mark Langford 170 by: Stefan B. In praise of T-88 171 by: Oscar Zuniga Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 08:13:13 EDT To: alessandro.pecorara@telecomitalia.it, jeb@thuntek.net From: AviationMech@aol.com CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Fuel pump dilemma Message-ID: <88.226a7de.26207c59@aol.com> I have run a posa and currently use a revflow. In both installations I have incorporated a fuel pressure regulator, set to 1 1/2 lbs. this gives the carb a constant pressure reguardless of the head pressure. As for the notion of placing the pumps in the cabin area, just remember that the more connections you have, the more opportunities for leaks. Ideally, I would place a wall between me and all fuel, and at a minimum, keep fuel and electrilcity as far apart as possible. The KR design is a compromise with the fuel right in front of the instruments and electrical connections. I opted to exit my fuel supply from the fuselage in a straight line from the tank outlet thur a shut valve, directly to the center of the firewall. Right between the rudder peddals. Even so there are 4 connections(leak opportunities) and a valve, to keep secure. Orma aviationmech@aol.com http:/members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:38:29 -0700 To: , , From: "Joe Beyer" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> Fuel pump dilemma Message-ID: <002401bfa135$dd46b340$b5990f3f@earthlink.net> To avoid fuel leaks all fittings should be assembled with 'fuel lube' which is a grease that looks kind of like bees wax. It's a standard aviation product and it works real well. Just coat the threads and tighten. It's also good to use for fuel shutoff valves when it comes time to re assemble them. mailto:joejbeyer@earthlink.net Portland, Ore. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2000 5:13 AM Subject: Re: KR> Fuel pump dilemma > I have run a posa and currently use a revflow. In both installations I have > incorporated a fuel pressure regulator, set to 1 1/2 lbs. this gives the > carb a constant pressure reguardless of the head pressure. As for the notion > of placing the pumps in the cabin area, just remember that the more > connections you have, the more opportunities for leaks. Ideally, I would > place a wall between me and all fuel, and at a minimum, keep fuel and > electrilcity as far apart as possible. The KR design is a compromise with > the fuel right in front of the instruments and electrical connections. I > opted to exit my fuel supply from the fuselage in a straight line from the > tank outlet thur a shut valve, directly to the center of the firewall. Right > between the rudder peddals. Even so there are 4 connections(leak > opportunities) and a valve, to keep secure. > > Orma > aviationmech@aol.com > http:/members.aol.com/aviationmech > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:18:22 -0400 To: , , From: "Tim Bellville" Subject: Batts. Message-ID: <002201bfa165$500c1080$66276520@default> Hey Gary, Got a new question for you,and any other Sonerai I drivers out there. Do you see any problems with mounting a battery in the left cheek ,on the cockpit side of the fire wall. other then a slight out of trim condition. I believe that this will keep the battery cool and easier to install. It's an oddessy pc545, drycell with 545cca. Thanks Tim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 10:58:43 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Patrick Flowers Subject: Re: KR> hypothetical question... Message-ID: <38EF4923.20DA@gmcmotorhome.com> Mark, I'm assuming you mean "Experimental - Amateur Built" vs. "Experimental - R&D". The R&D designation is what allows the Stratus 150 to fly and allows limited operation for a specified time period. I doubt that the resulting aircraft would have been changed enough to satisfy the FAA DAR as "Amateur Built" when he came round. The plane that Blanton designed for his Ford V6 conversion(can't recall the name right now) uses a Tripacer carcass, lengthens the fuselage and wings and replaces the engine with the Ford. It's difficult to understand exactly where the FAA draws the line, but it seems safe to say, if it resembles the original carcass when your done, then the FAA probably won't like it. Patrick Mark Langford wrote: > > Got a question for you guys (I'm asking for somebody else). If you had a > spam can that had been boogered up in an accident, could you replace the > wings with composite ones, replace the cowling, maybe tail surfaces, and the > engine, and register it as Experimental? -- Patrick Flowers Mailto:patrick@gmcmotorhome.com The GMC Motorhome Page http://www.gmcmotorhome.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 12:36:05 EDT To: langford@hiwaay.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: GARYKR2@cs.com Subject: Re: KR> hypothetical question... Message-ID: <33.37cf446.2620b9f5@cs.com> In a message dated 4/7/00 10:51:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, langford@hiwaay.net writes: << Got a question for you guys (I'm asking for somebody else). If you had a spam can that had been boogered up in an accident, could you replace the wings with composite ones, replace the cowling, maybe tail surfaces, and the engine, and register it as Experimental? >> The answer is no. The fuselage is what is considered the airplane. Wings, tail parts, cowling, engine, ect. are attaching parts. If its a Cessna, the "airplane" is from the firewall to the bulkhead where the rear window ends. This will give you a picture of what you need to build to be experimental. In other words, the fuselage is the only thing you HAVE to build. All the other parts can be from certified aircraft. Example - Breezy, Wag Aero's Cuby, Wag-a-bond. Gary Hinkle[A/P] Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 00:12:46 EDT To: GARYKR2@cs.com, langford@hiwaay.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> hypothetical question... Message-ID: In a message dated 04/08/00 10:37:14 AM Mountain Daylight Time, GARYKR2@cs.com writes: << If its a Cessna, the "airplane" is from the firewall to the bulkhead where the rear window ends. This will give you a picture of what you need to build to be experimental. In other words, the fuselage is the only thing you HAVE to build. All the other parts can be from certified aircraft. >> A pilot friend of mine a few years ago had a Globe Swift and replaced the engine with a small Buick V-6 (if I remember right). He had to register it as an experimental since the engine was not a certified aircraft engine. Jim Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:39:57 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> hypothetical question... Message-ID: <20000409.205056.-67741.3.jscott.pilot@juno.com> On Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:45:59 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > Got a question for you guys (I'm asking for somebody else). If you had a > spam can that had been boogered up in an accident, could you replace the > wings with composite ones, replace the cowling, maybe tail surfaces, and the > engine, and register it as Experimental? The answer to this (as with most FAA/FAR questions) is sometimes. If you have the right A&P with the right relationship with the right person in the local FSDO office, and they are all willing to work with you, it can be done. I have seen it done and talked to the folks involved. If the right relationships aren't there, you can spend your lifetime listening to the FAA tell you no. Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 08:43:05 PDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: progress- N2069Z Message-ID: <20000408154305.60129.qmail@hotmail.com> Hello, netters- Oops! I missed Friday, but if anybody is interested- I just posted updates to my M-19 "KR Construction Trainer" website. Takes a while to load because the digital cam images are bigger than my old-fashioned photo scans (but better quality), and I did a "lazy update" by adding to an existing page rather than putting stuff where it belongs. So give it a little time to load. Updates at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/update.html and at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/M19float.html Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 21:11:32 +0200 To: From: "Leigh" Subject: Inlet Manifold length? Message-ID: <002201bfa18f$dad8cda0$2e90ef9b@intekom.co.za> ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFA19F.03B615C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am busy designing my inlet manifold system for the KR2. The carb will = be below and behind the engine with the length of tubing being about = 40" to the furthest inlet. The inner diameter of the tubing is 1.5". = The engine is a 2.0 litre type 4 VW. Is this acceptable or is it too = long? I intend to try hand propping first (to keep weight to a = minimum). Any ideas or advice would be great. Leigh Stubbs Cape Town ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFA19F.03B615C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 21:00:58 +0200 To: From: "Leigh" Subject: Re Fuel Pump Dilema Message-ID: <002101bfa18f$d9dd0880$2e90ef9b@intekom.co.za> A friend of mine has a Dragonfly which he has rigged with a revflow carb and fuel pump. He has also put a pressure regulator in just after the pump which is set at the minimum of 1 psi. He also has a two way fuel cock which allows him to run on just gravity as well (By-passes the pump). The fuel pump and regulator is inside the plane before the gas-colator. Here's how it works: For some time (only with gravity feed) he had a problem where after a long idle time during approach, if he gave power again, the engine would want to cut. That's when he decided to fit the pump. The problem didn't go away. Eventually he came across an article which suggested putting a vent pipe from the top of the gas-colator to the space at the top of the header tank. This would eliminate any vapour lock that was building up between the gas-colator and carb. This together with better heat shielding around the fuel pipes solved the problem. However, he still has the pump, but here's the problem. At idle the engine runs very rich with pump on, buts runs smoothly with just gravity feed. At high thottle settings, the engine runs better with the pump on. So you can achieve good reliability and performance during normal flight, and good idle performance on the ground, but do you want all this complexity. I'm not yet convinced that this is a good system, but I thought I'd share the ideas with you. Cheers Leigh KR Newbie in Cape Town ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 21:15:35 +0200 To: From: "Leigh" Subject: Electric Elevator Trim Message-ID: <002301bfa18f$dbd492c0$2e90ef9b@intekom.co.za> ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFA19F.94CE8E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All I did not get any response to my previous post about the electric trim = so I will repeat the question. =20 Where can I find a circuit diagram of such a system, i.e. where you use = a model aeroplane servo mounted in the elevator? Basically, I would lie = to know what type of sender unit you use to control the servo. Thanks again Cheers Leigh ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFA19F.94CE8E20-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 17:55:54 -0400 To: "Leigh" , From: "Christopher Stewart" Subject: Re: KR> Electric Elevator Trim Message-ID: <003a01bfa1a5$3c2385e0$933576cc@oemcomputer> Leigh, I have the diagrams that you want, give me a day to find them and I will email them to you , you can also contact David Feiger, PO box 561 John Day OR, 97845, USA, He is they guy who designed the servo trim tab system, I'm still working on my setup, gonna make my kr-1 3 axis trim, the controls are all knob control, you might want to give him a call, maybe he can adapt it to toggle switch? Christopher Stewart Whitesville WV, KR-1XL N823CS(reserved) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leigh" To: Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2000 3:15 PM Subject: KR> Electric Elevator Trim Hi All I did not get any response to my previous post about the electric trim so I will repeat the question. Where can I find a circuit diagram of such a system, i.e. where you use a model aeroplane servo mounted in the elevator? Basically, I would lie to know what type of sender unit you use to control the servo. Thanks again Cheers Leigh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 12:19:06 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Todd Servaes Subject: RR Premoulded Wing Skins / Cowling Attachment Message-ID: <38EF8629.A446AAAF@netzero.net> --------------4B67977AC90D446D28D1A0D2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KR Netters, I am making my first posting to this or any other mailing list, since I think I can help on two items from the last digst I read. 1. 1. The RR wing skins I purchased came with composite panels to be cut into ribs to replace the foam ribs. The skins and these panels are cored with honeycomb and incidently the RR composite work in both design and execution are exceptional. 2. 2. An option that for blind fastening that a local Corby Starlet buider and I developed may help with the cowl attach problem. Use stand-offs, which are really nothing more than long nuts, potted in flox re-inforced epoxy in the place of nutplates where you are denied access. This method of blind attachment was divsed for fairings and small non- structural components but with coomon sense should be adaptable to the cowling. Todd Servaes KR-2S --------------4B67977AC90D446D28D1A0D2-- _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 12:19:48 -0700 To: KRNET From: Todd Servaes Subject: KR Performance and Weight Message-ID: <38EF8654.1C7674FA@netzero.net> KR NET'ters, I have a request for all who have or had completed KR's. Please post to the KR NET your airplanes cruise, climb, takeoff, and landing performance as well as empty weight and engine propellor used. KR performance seems to vary more than most other designs and I am trying to set a benchmark for what to expect. In choosing to build a KR-2S I carefully reviewed all the results available from the various cross country air races and these made it look good; however, these are understandably results only from the best KR's. If your plane is an exceptional performer please also pass on what you believe to be the critical factor that made it so. Thanks Todd Servaes KR-2S _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 16:23:08 -0500 (CDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: shanspur@webtv.net (shannon spurgeon) Subject: hypo ? Message-ID: <5741-38EFA33C-3617@storefull-621.iap.bryant.webtv.net> The 'breezy' prototype was built using Pacer wings and tail surfaces if I remember correctly. As long as you can convince the feds that you built 51% of the plane it will be licensed as Experimental - homebuilt. Do previous consult with FSDO and document everything. CYA seven ways from Sunday, but I see no problems using only the fuselage, which probably will need some repairs / alterations anyway. Best of luck to whoever is doing it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 09:18:55 -0400 To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: Rene Lemelin Subject: Gyros Message-ID: <38F0833F.A6D6E135@sympatico.ca> Yesterday I tried to connect an electric turn n'bank that sits on the shelf for about 10 years and I wasn't able to make it spin on it's own, so I gave it a swing and it started but it seems that something in the motor drag the speed down . When the power is cut it spins for less than 15 seconds(not so good I think). Does anyone know something about gyros, maybe electronic cleaning stuff, etc...? Thanks to all of you that answered me last week about cowling brackets, I really appreciate. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 14:02:17 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Encoder magic? Message-ID: <000801bfa256$2053c030$a5f780ce@300EMACHINE> KRNetHeads, It looks a little slow today, so maybe I can get away with another dumb question. Having completed my radio and transponder wiring weeks ago, I started wondering. How does a transponder encoder know how high it is? You have to "calibrate" your altimeter every time you take off to compensate for varying barometric pressure, but you don't do anything like that to the encoder. The only scenario that I can visualize is that the encoder just sends out a signal that corresponds to your static system's pressure, and the ATC hardware converts that pressure (considering local ambient pressure) into an altitude. Am I missing something? Working on a wing today. Thanks in advance, and thanks for all the answers to my spam-can conversion question earlier.... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:27:28 +0200 To: Mark Langford , krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Stefan B." Subject: Re: KR> Encoder magic? Message-ID: <38F17450.1043D550@wanadoo.fr> Mark Langford wrote: > KRNetHeads, > > It looks a little slow today, so maybe I can get away with another dumb > question. Having completed my radio and transponder wiring weeks ago, I > started wondering. How does a transponder encoder know how high it is? > You have to "calibrate" your altimeter every time you take off to compensate > for varying barometric pressure, but you don't do anything like that to the > encoder. The only scenario that I can visualize is that the encoder just > sends out a signal that corresponds to your static system's pressure, and > the ATC hardware converts that pressure (considering local ambient pressure) > into an altitude. Am I missing something? > The encoder sends to the ATC hardware not your real altitude but your flight level. Thus it is just calibrated to 1013.25 hPa. The ATC guy could obtain your altitude by multiplying the difference between the local QNH and 1013.25hPa by 28 (feet/hPa) and adding the encoder answer. Stefan Balatchev, France, mailto:stefan.Balatchev@wanadoo.fr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 05:49:14 PDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: In praise of T-88 Message-ID: <20000410124914.26282.qmail@hotmail.com> Hello, netters My faith in T-88 continues to be justified. I had glued a fairlead block on, and after rigging some nylon cord in place of control cable to check cable routings, determined that the block was placed wrong and would have to be removed. When I had glued it on, I had noticed that the clear component of my T-88 was just a bit syrupy and maybe had a bit of granularity to it (crystallization). It mixed up smoothly, so I went ahead and used it, but was leery so I wrapped some fiberglass up the sides of the block just to be sure. That turned out to be unnecessary. I thought I'd just grab the block with water pump pliers and snap it off after cutting through the glass with a knife. Wrong! The block (Doug fir) broke, but nowhere near the glue joint. The remainder broke some more, but again nowhere near the glue joint. I had to use a chisel to get most of it off, but it didn't shear easily. Finally I sanded down to bare wood again and glued the new block in place. Conclusion: it's comforting to know what's holding things together. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************