From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 21 Apr 2000 16:10:36 -0000 Issue 14 Date: Friday, April 21, 2000 8:11 AM krnet Digest 21 Apr 2000 16:10:36 -0000 Issue 14 Topics (messages 240 through 256): pre-molded wings 240 by: Ben Flanery Wanted: RR premolded wing kit. 241 by: HAshraf.aol.com LAST CALL For Video 242 by: Mark Jones Re: SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS 243 by: Tracy & Carol O'Brien 244 by: Tracy & Carol O'Brien 245 by: macwood 246 by: Donald Reid 248 by: Rick Hubka VolksPower 247 by: AviationMech.aol.com 249 by: GARYKR2.cs.com Who Has The Bellanca? 250 by: GARYKR2.cs.com Re: Canopy Question 251 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout 252 by: Joe Beyer 253 by: GARYKR2.cs.com Re: Canopy 254 by: AviationMech.aol.com 255 by: Richard Parker Peel-ply 256 by: saunders Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:21:00 -0500 To: From: "Ben Flanery" Subject: pre-molded wings Message-ID: <006301bfaa23$a3b21ec0$900edfd1@flan101499> ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BFA9F9.B8C48160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I met a man who wants to sell a set of Dan Diel pre-molded wing and = vert. and horiz. tail skins for a $1000.00 if anyone is interested. His = name is: John Denison 604 S. Muskogee St. Tahlequah, Okla. 74464 918-456-6928=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BFA9F9.B8C48160-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:03:40 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Wanted: RR premolded wing kit. Message-ID: <14.29e16dd.262fbf7c@aol.com> I am looking to buy a Rand Robisnom premolded wing kit. If someone is selling it please let me know. Please e-mail me at mailto:hashraf@aol.com Thanks Haris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:31:41 -0500 To: CorvAIRCRAFT , KR-Net From: Mark Jones Subject: LAST CALL For Video Message-ID: <38FE6C0D.3F6964F1@execpc.com> FINAL OFFER, this is it!!! My last offer to anyone who wants a copy of the 1999 KR Gathering William Wynne Corvair Engine Seminar including a demonstration of the engine running on a test stand. This tape is one hour and 15 minutes long. Price is $10 which includes postage to you. Please e-mail me to confirm your order at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com and I will give you my address to mail payment to. -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI USA mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:08:17 -0700 To: "Jeff LeTempt" , "krnet user group" From: Tracy & Carol O'Brien Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000419220817.00735504@localaccess.com> At 09:10 AM 04/18/2000 -0500, Jeff LeTempt wrote: >After talking with Mark Langford, I plan on building my fuselage sides so >they are square instead of being wider at the shoulders. That should >eliminate the banana boat, but the stress will still be there if the plywood >is installed prior to bending the sides into shape. > >Comments? > People, 2 comments: 1. Side flare in the "boat" is there to maximize people space while reducing weight and wetted area. It would be counterproductive to design this feature out just to eliminate another aspect that will not be a problem if you read the article in Newsletter #1. 2. Building the side panels flat (including attaching the plywood) and then bending the completed panel to shape will actually increase the stiffness of the structure, as it pre-loads the panel! (Kinda like pre-stressed concrete.) Tracy O'Brien ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:46:14 -0700 To: mdlougheed@juno.com,krnet@mailinglists.org From: Tracy & Carol O'Brien Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000419214614.006e8bfc@localaccess.com> At 12:33 PM 04/17/2000 -0700, mdlougheed@juno.com wrote: >Kevin, > >You are ABSOLUTELY correct in needing to account for the "extra height & >length" if you want the fuselage to turn out "true" to the plan >dimensions. Since the fuselage is wider at the top and narrower at the >bottom in section view - the vertical members form the hypotenuse of a >triangle. You see the "foreshortened" view of this hypotenuse in profile >as the given dimension. Everyone should know that the hypotenuse is >LONGER than the sum of its right triangle sides (plan & profile >dimensions). > >The longerons are also curved in plan view. Therefore they are longer >when laid out flat for construction. You may already know the process >used to transform the final curved shape into a flat panel for >construction is called "development". It's similar to the way sheet >metal is laid out when making ventilation ducts as covered in most >advanced drafting texts. This process DOES NOT change the finished >dimensions of the fuselage. > >Many builders have complained about the top longerons bowing away from >the building table when the fuselage is formed into it's finished shape. >This is because the top longeron was kept straight when building the flat >panel - when it's the FINISHED SHAPE you should be concerned with. In >order to have a flat (finished in profile) top longeron, it must be built >(flat panel) with a bit of curve to it - the amount of curve being >determined (in part) by the hypotenuse length of the vertical members at >each station. > >The good news is that all this is already worked out for you. The >process is outlined in an article I did for KR-Online issue #1. You can >surf to it from many KR web pages including www.krnet.org > >I'm sure Tracy O'Brien will concur with me as a fellow boat builder & >designer - Any comments Tracy??? > >Mark D. Lougheed >mdlougheed@juno.com > Mark is right: the proper shape of the fuselage side panels will include a slight upward curve in the center. The shape can be developed from an end-on drawing of the fuselage and a bit of trig to determine the expanded panel stations. Regards, Tracy O'Brien > > > >>Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:58:34 GMT >>To: krnet@mailinglists.org >>From: "kevin old" >>Subject: SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS >>Message-ID: <20000415035834.23548.qmail@hotmail.com> >> >>WHEN BUILDING KR2S SIDE FUSELAGE AS PER PLAN DIMENSIONS IN RR PLANS DO >YOU >>USE THE STATED DIMENSIONS OR DO YOU HAVE TO ALLOW FOR EXTRA HEIGHT AND >>LENGTH AS THE DRAWING IS A PROFILE DRAWING. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:52:23 +0100 To: "Jeff LeTempt" , "krnet user group" , "Tracy & Carol O'Brien" From: "macwood" Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <001b01bfaabe$fe8e25a0$4cd1b0c2@tinypc> I built to drawings, not being perspicacious enough to spot the anomalies! When my inspector saw the stress produced by trying to straighten the "banana", he suggested covering the sides with damp towels for 24hours . This is supposed to relieve the stress. I carried on with the built in bow, no problems as long as you use the firewall as datum when setting your wing and tail incidence. Cheers, Mac W Hampshire UK ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy & Carol O'Brien To: Jeff LeTempt ; krnet user group Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 6:08 AM Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS > At 09:10 AM 04/18/2000 -0500, Jeff LeTempt wrote: > >After talking with Mark Langford, I plan on building my fuselage sides so > >they are square instead of being wider at the shoulders. That should > >eliminate the banana boat, but the stress will still be there if the plywood > >is installed prior to bending the sides into shape. > > > >Comments? > > > People, > > 2 comments: > > 1. Side flare in the "boat" is there to maximize people space while > reducing weight and wetted area. It would be counterproductive to design > this feature out just to eliminate another aspect that will not be a > problem if you read the article in Newsletter #1. > > 2. Building the side panels flat (including attaching the plywood) and then > bending the completed panel to shape will actually increase the stiffness > of the structure, as it pre-loads the panel! (Kinda like pre-stressed > concrete.) > > Tracy O'Brien > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:01:42 -0400 To: "krnet user group" From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000420125629.00954420@pop.erols.com> --=====================_592093==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:52 PM 4/20/00 +0100, macwood wrote: >I built to drawings, ... > I carried on with the built in >bow, no problems as long as you use the firewall as datum when setting your >wing and tail incidence. One minor comment. There are other reference points that can be used as the datum, the firewall is one. Just be consistent in the one that you pick. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm USUA Club 250 at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html --=====================_592093==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:27:14 -0600 To: "krnet user group" From: "Rick Hubka" Subject: Re: KR> SIDE FUSELAGE PLANS Message-ID: <003301bfab17$9458ac60$0200005a@powerbuilder> My 2 cents. That would be 1.3 cents Canadian I widened mine 4" at the top and 6" at the bottom. This gave me a smaller banana effect, reduced it about 50%. After trying the widening on a very small scale set up, I realized that I also needed to widen the firewall by 1" at the top and 2" at the bottom to bring things back into semitry. << (must be a typo but it sounds good). If I did not do this, the result would be a bulgy look for the cockpit area or a smaller tapered engine compartment. ( need room for my Corvair Engine) I am very pleased with the results and must get back at it in a few weeks. I have not touched the WingNut (My KR-2S has a name) for 5 months now. I almost called it the Northern Sky Pig Mike! Take Care Rick Hubka Email: rick@hubka.com Web Site: www.hubka.com Calgary, Alberta, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:20:51 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: VolksPower Message-ID: <8c.2b1f745.2630b293@aol.com> Hi Net, for years I have used a volksPower accessory case and have been pleased. I need to know if the case's are still available. Thanks in advance Orma FAA A&P with Inspection Authorization aviationmech@aol.com http:/members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:58:57 EDT To: AviationMech@aol.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: GARYKR2@cs.com Subject: Re: KR> VolksPower Message-ID: <6c.32617df.2630e5b1@cs.com> In a message dated 4/20/00 3:32:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AviationMech@aol.com writes: << Hi Net, for years I have used a volksPower accessory case and have been pleased. I need to know if the case's are still available. Thanks in advance Orma FAA A&P with Inspection Authorization aviationmech@aol.com http:/members.aol.com/aviationmech >> I have the same case and also have been very happy with it. But the answer is no, it's not made any more. The main thing I like is being able to have a belt driven alternator. If anyone has any spares lying around, I would be like to hear from you. Gary Hinkle[A/P] Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:13:48 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: GARYKR2@cs.com Subject: Who Has The Bellanca? Message-ID: Who ever it is that has the Bellanca Cruisemaster, would you please email me off net. I have some questions to ask of you. Thank You. Gary Hinkle[A/P] Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:56:57 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Re: Canopy Question Message-ID: <20000420.195658.-170969.0.klw1953@juno.com> Does anybody how much opening force is on the canopy during flight? I want to be sure my latches can handle the load. I'm using the side hinge setup that has 2 latches on the opposite side. Thanks, Kenny ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 05:32:52 -0700 To: , "Kenneth L Wiltrout" From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Canopy Question Message-ID: <002b01bfaac4$a9a15de0$9b990f3f@earthlink.net> As long as the canopy stays closed, and no air gets under it, then it will stay shut. I've rigged up a safety catch in case someone takes off and forgets to latch the canopy. It's from the Rutan Longeze plans. It's always in the way when getting in or out, but in case the canopy lifts, it will only open up about an inch or so. It's a stainless steel strap attached to the lower canopy frame with a slot in it. There's a 3/16 bolt and bushing, going through a phenolic fitting bonded to the lower longeron. mailto:joejbeyer@earthlink.net Portland, Ore. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth L Wiltrout To: Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 4:56 PM Subject: KR> Re: Canopy Question > Does anybody how much opening force is on the canopy during flight? > I want to be sure my latches can handle the load. I'm using the side > hinge setup that has 2 latches on the opposite side. > Thanks, > Kenny > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:21:12 EDT To: joejbeyer@earthlink.net, krnet@mailinglists.org, klw1953@juno.com From: GARYKR2@cs.com Subject: Re: KR> Re: Canopy Question Message-ID: <5f.427c188.26310708@cs.com> In a message dated 4/20/00 8:34:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joejbeyer@earthlink.net writes: << Does anybody how much opening force is on the canopy during flight? > I want to be sure my latches can handle the load. I'm using the side > hinge setup that has 2 latches on the opposite side. > Thanks, > Kenny >> I have 2 each latches of the type bought at hardware stores. Draw latch type. Been there since the plane was built in '77. Gary Hinkle[A/P] Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:21:18 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: Canopy Message-ID: <33.409402f.2631afce@aol.com> Your question reminds me of a story I heard at an Oshkosh hanger party one night several years ago. The plane in this story had a windshield and hatch arrangement, that the pilot forgot to latch. After take off and around 5k ft, it seems that the hatch wiggled a little, alerting the pilot that it was not secured. Just about the time the pilot grabbed the hatch, it opened and in the process broke the pilots arm. In severe pain, he forgot to fly the plane, it stalled, quickly spinning and falling into some pine trees. He described his crash survival and rescue in great detail. The most horrific part of his tale was the pine branches which penitrated both the bottom of the fuselage and his tail.. At the time of the telling he was building a second KR, and occasioally removing a piece of bark from here and there. I quess I dont have to tell the moral of this story. My canopy is hinged to the front. If left unlatched, the air pressure over the top will cause it to lift slightly, but that same slip stream will keep it in place. I feel a side latched canopy will stay latched, unless, as others have said, the wind gets under it. As a word of caution, make a check list like the factory airplanes and use it. On the ground, a 35Knot gust blew my conopy from the rear while I was holding it. It ripped it from my hand and tore it from the plane and sent it like an umbrella in the wind. Needless to say it smashed into pieces. I've since installed struts to support it when it is open. Orma FAA A&P with Inspection Authorization aviationmech@aol.com http:/members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:05:02 PDT To: AviationMech@aol.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Canopy Message-ID: <20000421150502.32364.qmail@hotmail.com> The person in your story flew his second KR to the Lake Barkely gathering last summer. it looks great is still side opening and has a new latch design. RP >Your question reminds me of a story I heard at an Oshkosh hanger party one >night several years ago. The plane in this story had a windshield and >hatch >arrangement, that the pilot forgot to latch. After take off and around 5k >ft, >it seems that the hatch wiggled a little, alerting the pilot that it was >not >secured. Just about the time the pilot grabbed the hatch, it opened and in >the process broke the pilots arm. In severe pain, he forgot to fly the >plane, it stalled, quickly spinning and falling into some pine trees. He >described his crash survival and rescue in great detail. The most horrific >part of his tale was the pine branches which penitrated both the bottom of >the fuselage and his tail.. At the time of the telling he was building a >second KR, and occasioally removing a piece of bark from here and there. > I quess I dont have to tell the moral of this story. My canopy is >hinged >to the front. If left unlatched, the air pressure over the top will cause >it >to lift slightly, but that same slip stream will keep it in place. I feel >a >side latched canopy will stay latched, unless, as others have said, the >wind >gets under it. As a word of caution, make a check list like the factory >airplanes and use it. On the ground, a 35Knot gust blew my conopy from the >rear while I was holding it. It ripped it from my hand and tore it from >the >plane and sent it like an umbrella in the wind. Needless to say it >smashed >into pieces. I've since installed struts to support it when it is open. > >Orma >FAA A&P with Inspection Authorization >aviationmech@aol.com >http:/members.aol.com/aviationmech > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:10:07 -0400 To: "KR-net users group" From: "saunders" Subject: Peel-ply Message-ID: <000e01bfabac$10846560$cda8efce@oemcomputer> There was a discussion some time ago about substitutes for the peel-ply available from AS&S or Wicks. AS&S has not been able to ship the peel-ply to me for a couple of weeks now, could someone refresh my memory on what was being used to replace the commercially available stuff ? Michael Saunders Cumberland , Md. saunders@hereintown.net ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************