From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 23 Apr 2000 16:28:19 -0000 Issue 15 Date: Sunday, April 23, 2000 8:29 AM krnet Digest 23 Apr 2000 16:28:19 -0000 Issue 15 Topics (messages 257 through 279): Re: Canopy Question 257 by: Richard Selix Replacement Peel Ply 258 by: Kerry Miller Re: Peel-ply 259 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com 260 by: cartera 262 by: Cary Honeywell 263 by: Joe Beyer 265 by: Gognij.aol.com Rear starter Corvair engine 261 by: Mark Langford Bing Carbs for Sale 264 by: Richard Parker Foam question 266 by: Kerry Miller 267 by: Mike Mims 274 by: Joe Beyer Flying KR Near Knoxville Tennessee? 268 by: Forrest Erickson KR2 269 by: Dave Vieira KR1 270 by: Tom Crawford Project for sale 271 by: JamesMcG.aol.com Overspray on Windows 272 by: Doug Peyton 278 by: Donald Reid foam and engine question 273 by: mike holder 275 by: Mark Langford 276 by: Mark Langford 277 by: Mark Langford 279 by: AviationMech.aol.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:23:53 -0700 To: Kenneth L Wiltrout From: Richard Selix CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Re: Canopy Question Message-ID: <39008098.1F678722@earthlink.net> Kenneth: Determine the square feet of canopy you are using and apply the following formula: .5 x rho x (mph x 1.467) ^2 = lbs. per square foot To make things simple: rho at 5000 ft altitude = .002048 at 2500 ft altitude = .002208 Richard Selix San Diego mailto:rselix@earthlink.net Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: > Does anybody how much opening force is on the canopy during flight? > I want to be sure my latches can handle the load. I'm using the side > hinge setup that has 2 latches on the opposite side. > Thanks, > Kenny > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:36:09 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kerry Miller Subject: Replacement Peel Ply Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000421123609.007bd9f0@mail.ticnet.com> I've been using plain old 100% polyester fabric from WalMart. Sometimes you can catch it on sale, as long as you're not too proud to hang out in the fabric department with the old women. Be prepared though, if you tell them what you're using it for they're likely to tell you your wasting that "nice pretty fabric" (yes, it's from experience). If they don't have white the pink works but it sure looks funny on the wings... Take a piece of peel ply with you, it's easy to match it and get approximately the same weight of fabric. One other hint - don't use it over flox, only epoxy or micro. The fibers in the flox get into the cloth and you'll never get them apart. Kerry Miller Cumby, Texas (70 mi. east of Dallas) At 04:10 PM 04/21/2000 -0000, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:10:07 -0400 >To: "KR-net users group" >From: "saunders" >Subject: Peel-ply >Message-ID: <000e01bfabac$10846560$cda8efce@oemcomputer> > >There was a discussion some time ago about substitutes for the peel-ply >available from AS&S or Wicks. AS&S has not been able to ship the peel-ply >to me for a couple of weeks now, could someone refresh my memory on what was >being used to replace the commercially available stuff ? > >Michael Saunders >Cumberland , Md. >saunders@hereintown.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:25:21 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Peel-ply Message-ID: <72.3219012.2631f711@aol.com> The substitute is dress liner material. Ask any of the people in the fabric section of your local Walmart, and they will know what you are talking about. It is substantially less expensive than peel ply but also has it's drawbacks. Since it does not have the release agent that peel ply has, you cannot leave it on overnight and expect to peel in off effortlessly. Once the lay-up gets hard, go ahead and peel the liner material off. If you do this, you will find this material is a nice little substitute for peel ply. Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:04:34 -0600 To: KR2616TJ@aol.com From: cartera CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Peel-ply Message-ID: <3900B452.490BD184@cuug.ab.ca> KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > > The substitute is dress liner material. Ask any of the people in the fabric > section of your local Walmart, and they will know what you are talking about. > It is substantially less expensive than peel ply but also has it's > drawbacks. Since it does not have the release agent that peel ply has, you > cannot leave it on overnight and expect to peel in off effortlessly. Once > the lay-up gets hard, go ahead and peel the liner material off. If you do > this, you will find this material is a nice little substitute for peel ply. > > Dana Overall > 2000 KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > This material is Rayon, used on fabric covered aircraft and why Nitrite dope has to be used for first coat. Ceconite is a replacement. Rayon can be found in any fabric shop. You do not need any sizing of any type on it but if you feel more comfortable one can use some Scotch Gard if your not going to put another layer of fiber glass on it. I never have had a problem with getting it released from the epoxy. Good stuff and a hell of a lot cheaper that does not have a airplane connotation to it. It can be had in different weights, medium or heavy is better. Rayon called Peel Ply by these high priced aircraft suppliers Good Luck! Happy Building and Flying, Guys! -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 23:43:40 -0400 To: From: "Cary Honeywell" Subject: Re: KR> Peel-ply Message-ID: <003b01bfac0c$f3495e40$0205a8c0@server1> Ok. I'll admit I'm a little behind in the technology but being from Canada where such things as Peel-ply are less common, I need to ask. What do you use it for? - Cary - -Cary Honeywell - Ottawa Ontario Canada caryh@home.com ve3ev@rac.ca Home page http://24.112.208.98/ KR2 area http://24.112.208.98/kr2/kr2.shtml ----- Original Message ----- From: ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:45:46 -0700 To: "Cary Honeywell" , From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: Re: KR> Peel-ply Message-ID: <000d01bfabb9$708929c0$7b990f3f@earthlink.net> Put it over wet resin to absorb excess resin, to make a porous surface, and to make it easy to manipulate the surface before it hardens. After it cures, just peel it off. You can bond right to the surface without sanding, although it should be cleaned. mailto:joejbeyer@earthlink.net Portland, Ore. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cary Honeywell To: Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 8:43 PM Subject: Re: KR> Peel-ply > Ok. I'll admit I'm a little behind in the technology but being from Canada > where such things as Peel-ply are less common, I need to ask. > > What do you use it for? > > - Cary - > > -Cary Honeywell - > Ottawa Ontario Canada > caryh@home.com > ve3ev@rac.ca > Home page http://24.112.208.98/ > KR2 area http://24.112.208.98/kr2/kr2.shtml > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ***************************** > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:47:53 EDT To: joejbeyer@earthlink.net, caryh@home.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Gognij@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Peel-ply Message-ID: Joe the peel-ply is also used to provide a smooth transition of an overlapping layer of glass on to the underlying layer of glass. It prevents all of those glass needles from sticking up at the end of the fiberglass layer.............................Jim Gogniat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:36:45 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Cc: Subject: Rear starter Corvair engine Message-ID: <004b01bfabfb$387c3b70$a5f780ce@300emachine> There's been a lot of talk on the CorvAIRCRAFT list lately about a rear starter version of the Corvair engine. I received a picture of William's as mounted on his Piet today, and posted it near the top of my Corvair page at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair.html . He has 260 starts on it so far. If you're planning on building a Corvair engine for your KR, you definitely need to be on CorvAIRCRAFT. Instructions for joining are on the same site... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 05:42:56 PDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Bing Carbs for Sale Message-ID: <20000422124256.9295.qmail@hotmail.com> Is it still Friday? I've got 4 Bing 34 carbs for sale for $50.00 each. I'll even pay for shipping. They are a diaphram design and can be mounted in any position. They were originally set up to use on drone aircraft. I should have pictures on Monday. Rich Parker 68 Currier Ave Pterborough, NH 03458 ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:53:33 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kerry Miller Subject: Foam question Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000422095333.007a68b0@mail.ticnet.com> Here's a question for any of you who built your cowlings from scratch (or anybody with foam info). How are polyurethane and styrofoam for heat resistance? The plans say to use the urethane foam to build the cowling, leaving about a 3/8" sandwich when you get done. Has anybody had any problems with the urethane foam due to heat? I've also thought about trying styrofoam, the blue kind you can get at Home Depot (they sell it for insulation). I've used it to make molds but wonder about using it for structural parts, especially in the cowling where it would get hot. I know (now...) that you can't use it with polyester resin because it melts the foam but it works fine with epoxy. Is the urethane ok to use in a hot area like the cowling? Tnx, Kerry Miller Cumby, TX (75 miles east of Dallas) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:15:41 -0700 From: Mike Mims CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Foam question Message-ID: <3901C21D.9572BB80@home.com> Kerry Miller wrote: > > I've also thought about trying styrofoam, the blue kind you can get at Home > Depot (they sell it for insulation). > > Is the urethane ok to use in a hot area like the cowling? > Blue foam melts very easily. Urethane would be better but I would consider removing all the foam. I used blue foam to make my mold and then laid-up several layers of glass over it. After it cured I pulled the cowling off the mold. Leaving foam (any foam) in the cowling is asking for problems down the road if you ask me. The foam will melt and distort in various places causing dips and soft spots. -- __________________ Micheal Mims Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:48:44 -0700 To: , "Kerry Miller" From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: Re: KR> Foam question Message-ID: <001d01bfac7a$a07b83a0$09990f3f@earthlink.net> I have used urethane foam to build my cowelling, and have had no problems of any kind due to the heat. The only problem is that the whole assembly tends to be a bit heavy. I'm thinking of using the existing plans built cowell as a plug, and making a new carbon fiber cowell to save weight. mailto:joejbeyer@earthlink.net Portland, Ore. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kerry Miller To: Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 7:53 AM Subject: KR> Foam question > Here's a question for any of you who built your cowlings from scratch (or > anybody with foam info). How are polyurethane and styrofoam for heat > resistance? The plans say to use the urethane foam to build the cowling, > leaving about a 3/8" sandwich when you get done. Has anybody had any > problems with the urethane foam due to heat? > > I've also thought about trying styrofoam, the blue kind you can get at Home > Depot (they sell it for insulation). I've used it to make molds but wonder > about using it for structural parts, especially in the cowling where it > would get hot. I know (now...) that you can't use it with polyester resin > because it melts the foam but it works fine with epoxy. > > Is the urethane ok to use in a hot area like the cowling? > > Tnx, > Kerry Miller > Cumby, TX (75 miles east of Dallas) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 12:31:02 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Forrest Erickson Subject: Flying KR Near Knoxville Tennessee? Message-ID: <3901D3C5.800E9BF1@icx.net> --------------8776AD200FCB8F8D7596D78C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am rather taken by the KR and would like to learn more. I live in Knoxville Tennessee and I am wondering if any of you have a flying KR near here? Thanks, Lee Erickson --------------8776AD200FCB8F8D7596D78C-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 12:34:35 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Dave Vieira Subject: KR2 Message-ID: <20000422193435.21236.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Hey All!! Is there anyone here building a KR2 in Ontario, Canada that wouldnt mind if i poped in to see it?? Thanx ===== Dave Vieira Ontario, Canada __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 15:43:15 -0400 To: KR-net users group From: Tom Crawford Subject: KR1 Message-ID: <390200D3.10F5@atlantic.net> Is anyone on KRnet building or flying a KR1? If so, please P-mail me. Thanks, -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Mailto:toys@atlantic.net http://www.tomshardwoodtoys.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:19:03 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: JamesMcG@aol.com Subject: Project for sale Message-ID: <70.2a3dec9.2633b797@aol.com> I am moving from Minneapolis to Florida and the company wont pay to move the project so I need to sell. I bought it from Brian Bland There are pictures on his site. I have also picked up a corviar engine. LOOKING TO SELL FOR $1500 http://www.flight2000.com/hangar/KR-2S/KR.html is Brian's web site with pictures. Jim McGillicuddy Jamesmcg @aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:58:29 CEST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Doug Peyton" Subject: Overspray on Windows Message-ID: <20000423025829.91516.qmail@hotmail.com> I got some Rustoleum primer overspray, a very light amount, on my side plastic windows - it leaked through the Wal-Mart shopping bags. Please suggest how to get the primer off the plastic. Thanks, Doug Peyton Tulsa. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 09:05:18 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Overspray on Windows Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000423090220.00956140@pop.erols.com> --=====================_559654==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:58 AM 4/23/00 +0000, Doug Peyton wrote: > I got some Rustoleum primer overspray, a very light amount, on my > side plastic windows - it leaked through the Wal-Mart shopping > bags. Please suggest how to get the primer off the plastic. Plexi-glass can be cleaned and polished, starting with very fine sandpaper (at least 400 grit or finer) and progressing through polishing compound. Try it on a piece of scrap and see if you will be happy with the results. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm USUA Club 250 at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html --=====================_559654==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:01:58 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: mike holder Subject: foam and engine question Message-ID: <390275B5.CC646457@avalon.net> As far as foam goes, would it not be wise to use the "blue" foam for like say the wings or tail section? I wouldn't use it around anything that get too hot. Has anyone done this? I read through the archives and found nothing. I have a 2.4 l Porsche engine that i was considering for my kr-1 that I'm building, but would like a 1835VW instead. If anyone knows where there is one laying around, please let me know. Thats makes the engine I have available for purchase. It will need a complete overhaul. I would consider a trade. thanks mike holder ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:20:04 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>foam and engine question Message-ID: <000901bfad15$e01b7ec0$a5f780ce@300emachine> Mike wrote: > I have a 2.4 l Porsche engine that i was considering for my kr-1 that > I'm building, but would like a 1835VW instead. Mike, I sure wouldn't trade the Type 4 for a Type 1 for any reason, even weight. See http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kvw.html for more on that. The weight penalty will be more than made up by the extra power, and then there's the longevity benefit that's free. And if you want to carry a passenger, it won't be long before you'll be looking for something besides an 1835... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:31:34 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>foam and engine question Message-ID: <001f01bfad17$7b413fb0$a5f780ce@300emachine> Mike, Ok, so I missed the KR-1 one part, but Tom Bagnatto has a Type 4 in his KR-1, and the thing is a rocket ship! He was the guy orbiting Perry at about twice the speed of everybody else. Looked like a Lancair buzzing by from the ground. I realize that you may want to land on a grass field or some other special requirement, but twenty five pounds of extra weight isn't going to make nearly the difference that you'll get from the improved reliability and that increase in power. But like I said, you may have special requirements. It's your decision. Just wanted to mention the other side of the coin... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 07:23:28 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>foam and engine question Message-ID: <003701bfad1e$bb871700$a5f780ce@300emachine> After thinking about this for another hour, one more Type 4 issue that should be considered is the crankshaft breakage thing. It seems there have been proportionally more Type 4 cranks broken than Type 1s, even if they're both made of the 4340 steel. The geometry of the Type 4 (leading to even higher levels of torsional vibration) apparently makes it more prone to breakage, so there goes my "reliability edge". Maybe a Type 1 IS the best choice. I was going Type 4 because I was also planning on using the flywheel end to drive the prop, which would allow me to use the stock forged crankshaft without worrying about breaking the crank. Still, if I had a Type 4 with the 4340 crank and Force One hub in it, I'd be tempted to use it. Personally if I were building a KR-1, I'd stuff a Corvair in it and go looking for races to win, but I'm a whacko... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 12:27:39 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR>foam and engine question Message-ID: I used the same type 4 from 1984 until Jan 1998. I've knocked at least three props off the front and continued to fly, never opening the case. I have tried followed all the type 4 problems that were published. Each one that I can remember involved stroker cranks, where someone was trying to get the most cc's for the buck. I remember when Dan's N4DD broke its crank, he was knowingly running a 2600cc, and even though it broke, it kept flying til he got home. I have never been a fan of Stroker cranks. Most stroker cranks were designed for the aftermarket auto application, where a break ruins your day causes you to say darn, but doesn't risk your lilfe. I'm not aware of the stock crank having any problems. If any of you know of stock crank problems, I would like to know for my own safety. Using the stock crank limits the displacement to around 2300cc. With the correct Sturba prop you should probably get acceptable curise and takeoff performance. Orma FAA A&P with Inspection Authorization aviationmech@aol.com http:/members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************