From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 30 Apr 2000 17:21:02 -0000 Issue 19 Date: Sunday, April 30, 2000 9:21 AM krnet Digest 30 Apr 2000 17:21:02 -0000 Issue 19 Topics (messages 328 through 357): Re: Lets Vote 328 by: Mel 332 by: Michael Taglieri 336 by: Michael Geoghegan 340 by: Bobby Muse 342 by: CHOCTAWCWR.aol.com valve covers 329 by: david barner 333 by: Joe Beyer Re: posting 330 by: John Bryhan 334 by: Dennis Witherspoon 335 by: Dennis Witherspoon btw 331 by: Joe Beyer Re: KR Flea Market 337 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com 341 by: Tom Stokes 347 by: AviationMech.aol.com My vote on list reply 338 by: Oscar Zuniga e-mail 339 by: Richard Selix Re: Aileron Balancing 343 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout 344 by: Mark Langford 345 by: Donald Reid 346 by: Ron Lee 348 by: Joe Beyer 354 by: Mike Mims canopy front hinge placement 349 by: Bob Smith 352 by: Mark Langford 353 by: Mike Mims 355 by: Mike Mims 356 by: Mike Mims 357 by: Mark Langford KR gathering this year 350 by: CruzJ12.aol.com 351 by: Mark Jones Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:24:14 -0700 To: "Florin L Pintea" , "Mark Jones" , "KR-Net" From: "Mel" Subject: Re: KR> Lets Vote Message-ID: <004d01bfb18a$64d447a0$998e0718@frndl1.wa.home.com> I vote yes. I feel we are missing important info and we should use the delete key as needed rather than loose this info. Mel Poradun Ferndale,Wa Email: mel@exp-builder.com Home Page: http://www.crosswinds.net/~mporadun/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:00:19 -0400 To: texasquadj@prodigy.net From: Michael Taglieri Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Lets Vote Message-ID: <20000429.003013.9382.4.MikeT_NYC@juno.com> >> I say we take a vote and see who wants to see all the replies or not. >> Maybe if enough of us would like all the replies, then maybe the net >> administrators will change it back! >> >> I VOTE YES On Juno, my e-mail program (which is free and rather primitive), I have the reply settings set so it ALWAYS replies to all, and I've had it that way for years with no problems -- I just delete the address to the list when I don't want to reply to all. Can't other people here set their e-mail programs this way also? Mike Taglieri - miket_nyc@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:42:31 -0400 To: Mark Jones From: Michael Geoghegan CC: KR-Net Subject: Re: KR> Lets Vote Message-ID: <390ABC97.66DF7D6D@sover.net> I just spent ten minutes reviewing 41 e-mails on this list. I must admit that some were short due to the topic but still it only takes 5 to 10 minutes to review. If it's taking a lot longer, than you people aren't using the delete key enough. Some might say that it's ten minutes less to work on the KR but its easy to pick and choose what you want to read based on your own time management. I would like to see all the messages rather than miss some important information because someone pushed reply instead of reply-to-all. I vote yes. N47MG Mike Geoghegan Moretown Vermont Humidors@sover.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:13:04 -0500 To: Florin L Pintea From: Bobby Muse CC: Mark Jones , KR-Net Subject: Re: KR> Lets Vote Message-ID: <390B0A10.F39177C2@ev1.net> > > > At the risk of being one of the "outlaws" of the group I would like to vote > for receiving "all" the messages as I did before. Since we are in a > democracy situation here (I hope) this would be my wish, although either way > is fine. > Yes, I know some of the messages get annoying and some are trivial or > useless, but from my perspective those messages are "easily" overlooked when > I consider the rest of the "extremely educational" posts by far outweigh the > so called "useless blabbing" and I think I can live with that. > I would have to agree that nobody enjoys the "personal attacks" or "heated > arguments some people have had on this list and I would vote those should be > kept private, but a lot of the messages that are posted, if people read > them, would save the same topic being discussed more than once (every month) > hehehe. On numerous occasions my question was answered before I even asked > if I just paid attention and read the posts. > There are a few categories of members in this club: the "experts", the > experienced and then the ones like myself who want to absorb the very last > drop of useful information at the risk of having to weed trough some crap. > After all it may save our butt in the end, if not maybe some time, money and > aggravation. And since this forum is meant for us to learn from one another, > I planned to do just that when I joined at the risk of spending extra time > while I do the "weeding". I have been a member for 8 months or so and I've > learned a lot just by being silent here and reading every single message and > I have to say I've really enjoyed the material. Thanks to people like Mark > Langford, WW, Mike Mims, Pat Panzera and many others that are willing to > share their expertise with us that are "less fortunate " to have so much > experience, we've learned a lot and I would like to thank all of them for > taking the time and having the patience to put up with us. I'd have to agree > with the "experienced" that it could become boring at times, but it could > also help someone save his life and I know that's worth it. However it may > turn out to be, I will still enjoy reading all the messages. I do have to > say that since we've change the system I've received less educational > material, but maybe that's just my imagination. > That would be my less valuable 2 Canadian cents! > Thanks for listening to my rant. > > Florin L Pintea > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > > At first it didn't matter to me but when I see a request like this then I am in flavor of seeing all messages and replies.. someone's life could be saved. I agree with Florin. Bobby Muse ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:34:21 EDT To: bmuse@ev1.net, florinpi@home.com From: CHOCTAWCWR@aol.com CC: flykr2s@execpc.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Lets Vote Message-ID: <6f.44c8c3d.263caf5d@aol.com> iam all for information, saving lives etc. but as we all know there were an awful lot of me too's and bull the other way, i think the reason the valuable post are down is because not enough emphisis was put on the reply all button, now we all know to use it, if a post is coming from someone with enough intelligance that all should read it,then surely that person will be smart enough to hit the reply all and send it to all of us. the other way no one ever bothered to send the junk stuff just to the person that needed to read it ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:28:52 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: david barner Subject: valve covers Message-ID: <390A56F4.4C5E6EB@frognet.net> what is the lowest profile valve cover for the VW engine? I don't have much room to the cowl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:46:41 -0700 To: , From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: Re: KR> valve covers Message-ID: <006201bfb131$9d419ce0$f140b23f@earthlink.net> The stock steel valve cover as far as I know. mailto:joejbeyer@earthlink.net Portland, Ore. ----- Original Message ----- From: david barner To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:28 PM Subject: KR> valve covers > what is the lowest profile valve cover for the VW engine? I don't have > much room to the cowl > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:15:58 -0600 To: Ross Youngblood From: John Bryhan Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> posting Message-Id: <00042822173900.00531@sf1-045> I vote to keep it as it is. I was on the old list's digest so I didn't have to wade thru 25-30 'fluff' messages a day. With this new setup, I only get stuff that's actually KR related. On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Ross Youngblood wrote: > Yes, > What we are discussing is what happens to your replies. The mail list > server can be set to put 'krnet@mailinglists.org' as the reply_to: field, or > it can be set to put the senders email address only, which is what the current > setting is. > When you push "reply" on your email software, it will address the reply to > the "reply_to:" field only. If you use Netscape mail (I do), then you can > view all the email headers and see what the "reply_to:" is set to. Also on > Netscape mail you can push the "REPLY" button or "REPLY ALL" button. > When you push "Reply All" The software automaticly addresses your reply > to the sender and all other reciepients of the message. In the case of Reply All > there are always two reciepients, the sender, and krnet@mailinglists.org. > The point Mark and Jeff are making, is that it is reasonably easy to learn > to push "Reply All" or add krnet@mailinglists.org in the TO field, and it > cuts down on the "me to". Stuff. > Just to demonstrate, I'm going to do more "reply all's" and that should add > enough email traffic to get me flamed so we can see what happens. > -- Regards > Ross > > "Allan D. Olcott" wrote: > > > if i mail a question using the address krnet@mailinglists.org will it be received by all? > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org -- John Bryhan / Los Alamos, NM jeb@thuntek.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:19:31 -0700 To: , "Ross Youngblood" From: "Dennis Witherspoon" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> posting Message-ID: <001901bfb19a$81726120$43c66ac6@dennis> -----Original Message----- From: John Bryhan To: Ross Youngblood Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Date: Friday, April 28, 2000 9:19 PM Subject: Re: KR> posting >I vote to keep it as it is. I was on the old list's digest so I didn't have to >wade thru 25-30 'fluff' messages a day. With this new setup, I only >get stuff that's actually KR related. > > >On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Ross Youngblood wrote: >> Yes, >> What we are discussing is what happens to your replies. The mail list >> server can be set to put 'krnet@mailinglists.org' as the reply_to: field, or >> it can be set to put the senders email address only, which is what the current >> setting is. >> When you push "reply" on your email software, it will address the reply to >> the "reply_to:" field only. If you use Netscape mail (I do), then you can >> view all the email headers and see what the "reply_to:" is set to. Also on >> Netscape mail you can push the "REPLY" button or "REPLY ALL" button. >> When you push "Reply All" The software automaticly addresses your reply >> to the sender and all other reciepients of the message. In the case of Reply All >> there are always two reciepients, the sender, and krnet@mailinglists.org. >> The point Mark and Jeff are making, is that it is reasonably easy to learn >> to push "Reply All" or add krnet@mailinglists.org in the TO field, and it >> cuts down on the "me to". Stuff. >> Just to demonstrate, I'm going to do more "reply all's" and that should add >> enough email traffic to get me flamed so we can see what happens. >> -- Regards >> Ross >> >> "Allan D. Olcott" wrote: >> >> > if i mail a question using the address krnet@mailinglists.org will it be received by all? >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >-- >John Bryhan / Los Alamos, NM >jeb@thuntek.net > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:33:49 -0700 To: , "Ross Youngblood" From: "Dennis Witherspoon" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> posting Message-ID: <004901bfb19c$80316ac0$43c66ac6@dennis> I vote yes, I would like to see all the replies just for the simple reason that I print out and keep for reference those that I can use now or in the future . Dennis Witherspoon, Shedd Or. ( 99LZ) ----Original Message----- From: John Bryhan To: Ross Youngblood Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Date: Friday, April 28, 2000 9:19 PM Subject: Re: KR> posting >I vote to keep it as it is. I was on the old list's digest so I didn't have to >wade thru 25-30 'fluff' messages a day. With this new setup, I only >get stuff that's actually KR related. > > >On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Ross Youngblood wrote: >> Yes, >> What we are discussing is what happens to your replies. The mail list >> server can be set to put 'krnet@mailinglists.org' as the reply_to: field, or >> it can be set to put the senders email address only, which is what the current >> setting is. >> When you push "reply" on your email software, it will address the reply to >> the "reply_to:" field only. If you use Netscape mail (I do), then you can >> view all the email headers and see what the "reply_to:" is set to. Also on >> Netscape mail you can push the "REPLY" button or "REPLY ALL" button. >> When you push "Reply All" The software automaticly addresses your reply >> to the sender and all other reciepients of the message. In the case of Reply All >> there are always two reciepients, the sender, and krnet@mailinglists.org. >> The point Mark and Jeff are making, is that it is reasonably easy to learn >> to push "Reply All" or add krnet@mailinglists.org in the TO field, and it >> cuts down on the "me to". Stuff. >> Just to demonstrate, I'm going to do more "reply all's" and that should add >> enough email traffic to get me flamed so we can see what happens. >> -- Regards >> Ross >> >> "Allan D. Olcott" wrote: >> >> > if i mail a question using the address krnet@mailinglists.org will it be received by all? >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >-- >John Bryhan / Los Alamos, NM >jeb@thuntek.net > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:22:53 -0700 To: From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: btw Message-ID: <001601bfb12e$0c73f080$f140b23f@earthlink.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFB0F3.54FBE8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I vote to keep it the way it is. Clicking 'reply or reply all' is too = easy. mailto:joejbeyer@earthlink.net Portland, Ore. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFB0F3.54FBE8C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:13:16 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR Flea Market Message-ID: <9d.4b9b7bf.263c2bdc@aol.com> In a message dated 04/28/2000 3:49:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, flykr2s@execpc.com writes: << I would like to suggest at the 2000 KR Gathering we have a Flea Market for KR and aircraft related items. >> We have done this before. To do this I will need some people to volunteer to man the flee market table, otherwise your "stuff" is just sitting out there. I hate to bring it up, but theft has occurred at the gathering before. I remember one handheld got taken right out of an airplane. If you guys want to do it, I'm game. Since I'm winding down construction, I could sure use some garage "cleaning". As many things as I've changed on my airplane, I probably have a good start on enough stuff to build another with..............whata ya give me for it???????? Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:49:51 -0500 To: KR2616TJ@aol.com From: Tom Stokes Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR Flea Market Message-ID: <20000429.114953.-370439.0.tomstokes1@juno.com> Dana I enjoyed sitting at the regestration table last year and would do it again if you want. I could also watch the sales tables if they were together with the registration table. I go mostly to meet the different builders and what better way than to register them all. My only addition is I have a 10 year old boy and an 8 year old boy to keep up with this year. Tom Stokes White Hall, AR tomstokes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:32:28 EDT To: flykr2s@execpc.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR Flea Market Message-ID: <97.4b821e9.263ce72c@aol.com> I like marks suggestion, I have lots of KR things that I would sell. Orma FAA A&P with Inspection Authorization aviationmech@aol.com http:/members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:40:54 PDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: My vote on list reply Message-ID: <20000429134054.83270.qmail@hotmail.com> Howdy, netters- Just thought I'd weigh in with my vote. I say, "keep it like it is". I really like for people to think a bit before they send emails. If you're on a couple of lists (as I am), you can quickly get buried in fluff with unrestrained lists. And on the matter of "open line Friday"- you guys are taking this too far. The idea is to keep stuff unrelated to KRs to Friday, not to keep everything entirely off the list till Friday! Some of you guys seem to think that if it's a question about an engine conversion or a radio install or if it doesn't contain the letters "KR" specifically, that you can't post it. Not so! The idea is, if you have a RevFlow carb you want to sell (which might interest a KR builder)... post it. But, if you have invented a new carb that uses magnets in the venturi to yield a 200% increase in mileage and you want to market your new "Magnetronic 2000", stow it till Friday. I don't think the intent was to stifle all commercial material till Friday, only non-KR, non-aviation, and "strictly advertising" till then. IMHO. And last but not least, I heartily second the post about "just doing it" if you've never worked with fiberglass. Read a how-to manual, go see a demo at a fly-in workshop, or go visit a builder and let him/her show you. My visit to Mike Mims' "Sky Pig Sty" was what gave me the courage to mix my first resin and make my first layup. All he did was mix up a bit of epoxy in his shop and lay a piece of glass on a piece of foam. All of three minutes, but just seeing it done and then trying it yourself, you'll see that there's nothing to it. (Easy for me to say, after umpteen yucky runs, drips, sags, and lumpy layups!) It's all fun but the sanding. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:46:43 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Richard Selix Subject: e-mail Message-ID: <390B03E3.7B157861@earthlink.net> Keep it like it is. Richard Selix San Diego mailto:rselix@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:45:10 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Re: Aileron Balancing Message-ID: <20000429.174511.-93595.0.klw1953@juno.com> Since I balanced my ailerons about a year ago I have since added the fill material and a coat of primer as well, forget the fact that I haven't painted them yet either. Well, what I want to know is this, how precise do I have to get with the balancing process? They do hang down slightly now, very slightly. Thanks, Kenny ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 16:59:53 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Aileron Balancing Message-ID: <02f001bfb226$404c8040$a5f780ce@300emachine> Kenneth wrote: > Well, what I want to know is this, how precise do I have to get with the > balancing process? How precise? Well, Jeff Duval (TN) bought a used KR2 that had been built but rarely flown, and then sat in a hangar for almost 10 years (the one at the "East Coast) gathering last year). He soon found out why. One day he was crusing along minding his own business and all hell broke loose in the wing department. The ailerons had fluttered, and being an experienced pilot, he know it when he felt it. Further examination showed that the ailerons were not fully balanced. The reason he didn't make the KY gathering last year is that he wasn't about to fly it without balancing them fully. Even a heavy coat of paint can adversely affect the balance of a control surface. Can you add more lead to the top of the weight? Maybe to the front (where it would be more effective)? There. Saved a life, and we didn't even have "reply to all" going for us... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:29:13 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Re: Aileron Balancing Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000429202453.00959560@pop.erols.com> --=====================_855442==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:45 PM 4/29/00 -0400, Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: >Since I balanced my ailerons about a year ago I have since added the fill >material and a coat of primer as well, forget the fact that I haven't >painted them yet either. >Well, what I want to know is this, how precise do I have to get with the >balancing process? >They do hang down slightly now, very slightly. Without doing a full-blown vibration analysis, you don't know how precise you need to be. The home builder does not have the training or equipment to do that type of testing. If anything, you will be better off making them nose heavy, so that they hang slightly trailing edge up. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va KR2XL at http://www.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm USUA Club 250 at http://www.erols.com/donreid/usua250.html --=====================_855442==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:05:56 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR> Re: Aileron Balancing Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000429190556.007ac6e0@pcisys.net> Is it not really that the nose is heavier than the trailing edge when using the rotational (hinge) point as a reference? How that translates to trailing edge low/high on the plane would be a matter of control linkage rigging. Thus you would balance it OFF the airplane using the hinge point to balance it (use as a rotation point). Clarify if I am incorrect. Ron Lee >>Well, what I want to know is this, how precise do I have to get with the >>balancing process? >>They do hang down slightly now, very slightly. > >Without doing a full-blown vibration analysis, you don't know how precise >you need to be. The home builder does not have the training or equipment >to do that type of testing. If anything, you will be better off making >them nose heavy, so that they hang slightly trailing edge up. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 07:53:14 -0700 To: , "Ron Lee" From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Aileron Balancing Message-ID: <002a01bfb1ea$cb13cf80$0a44b23f@earthlink.net> One of the good things about the KR design is that the control surfaces have foam cores that tend to dampen vibration. This makes flutter less likely to occur. In one of the old newsletters from the '70s, Ken Rand said that the ailerons only needed to be balanced to about 90 percent. The original plans said to use a piece of flat aluminum and bend it to make the counterbalance weight attach bracket. When you bend heat treated aluminum you set up stress cracks which could cause the weight to separate in flight. On my KR, I used a piece of 2024 T-3 extruded aluminum (90 deg.) with a backup plate on the other side of the aileron spar, for the weight attach brackets. I added enough weight to balance them to about 105 percent. Even though the weights hang down below the skin line, they're out of sight and can be easily inspected during preflight. The plane handles real well. mailto:joejbeyer@earthlink.net Portland, Ore. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee To: Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 6:05 PM Subject: Re: KR> Re: Aileron Balancing > Is it not really that the nose is heavier than the trailing edge when > using the rotational (hinge) point as a reference? How that translates > to trailing edge low/high on the plane would be a matter of control > linkage rigging. Thus you would balance it OFF the airplane using > the hinge point to balance it (use as a rotation point). > > Clarify if I am incorrect. > > Ron Lee > > >>Well, what I want to know is this, how precise do I have to get with the > >>balancing process? > >>They do hang down slightly now, very slightly. > > > >Without doing a full-blown vibration analysis, you don't know how precise > >you need to be. The home builder does not have the training or equipment > >to do that type of testing. If anything, you will be better off making > >them nose heavy, so that they hang slightly trailing edge up. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:20:31 -0700 To: Joe Beyer From: Mike Mims CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Re: Aileron Balancing Message-ID: <390C5D4F.6684C03F@home.com> > Ken Rand said that the > ailerons only needed to be balanced to about 90 percent. The original plans > said to use a piece of flat aluminum and bend it to make the counterbalance > weight attach bracket. When you bend heat treated aluminum you set up stress > cracks which could cause the weight to separate in flight. What about making these out of thin 4130 steel? After all what your after is weight in this area. -- __________________ Micheal Mims Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 00:03:25 -0700 To: From: "Bob Smith" Subject: canopy front hinge placement Message-ID: <004d01bfb272$2e3b0920$3b9c1918@nycap.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BFB237.81A23560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HELP! My dragonfly forward-hinged canopy setup has turned into my biggest = headache so far, so I could use some design suggestions. =20 I don't like the idea of using the upper aft fuel tank wall as a = mounting bulkhead for 2 canopy hinges since there will be lots of stress = on this when the canopy is open and you can't put bolts throught a fuel = tank. I'd really like to hinge the canopy very close to the fuselage = longerons to gain strength and a wide stance but I can't figure out how = to do it with a normal fuel tank. If I try to keep the hinge axis low = near the longerons it must be moved far forward (about 5 inches) in = order to let the canopy frame rotate upwards....and I can't move it = forward since the fuel tank is there.=20 Anyone have any magical solutions? =20 Bob Smith, Albany, NY KR2S ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BFB237.81A23560-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 07:25:54 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> canopy front hinge placement Message-ID: <000801bfb29f$3b1cca70$a5f780ce@300emachine> Bob Smith wrote: >My dragonfly forward-hinged canopy setup has turned into my biggest headache >so far, so I could use some design suggestions. Bob, Call Don Betchan in Perry OK (check www.switchboard.com for his phone number). His setup apparently works well. How about if you put your tank baffles at the same place as your hinges connect to the tank, creating a gusset for the hinge mounting point, and maybe glued a 1/4" plywood plate (big enough to spread the load) to the back of the tank with the bolt countersunk into it so that the tank's integrity wouldn't be compromised at all? That connection should be mostly in shear when the canopy is up, so it won't be twisting the back of the tank up and down. It's mostly vertical loads (the canopy is prevented from travelling backwards by the aft deck in flight). But the gas struts (if you use them) do pull on the hinges as the canopy is closed. Make sure you use light weight struts. I've tested some from the junkyard that have 60 pounds of force each! Two 10 pounders will do that job just fine. My hinges are mounted to a piece of 3/4" foam about 6" deep wrapped in two layers of 5.85 ounce glass that is connected to nothing more than my front deck. It has some spruce "hardpoints" in it to accept the hinge bolts and provide a pad for the hinge to sit on, distributing the load to the glass over a larger area. That connection is so strong that it's the least of my canopy worries. The one that worries me is where my hinges connect to the canopy itself. I wish I had discovered carbon fiber when I started that job, rather than as I finished it. I'm sure you've seen all the gory details at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcf.html already. You're right about locating the hinges out near the longerons. That would sure stiffen it up substantially. I've seen a kit that's done that way (maybe the Banbi). I'd try to figure out a way to make that work. I'd always thought that if I were doing it again I'd run a piece of square aluminum tubing along the bottom of the canopy frame on each side forward to a hinge mounting point about which they'd rotate. That point would have to be pretty far forward so that canopy would clear the forward deck as it rotated up (but you knew that already). Dirt simple, and the pins are easily accessible (if you want them to be). It would effectively lift upwards, so the joint between forward deck and canopy would be easy to detail. But this scheme would have to be planned for before ever beginning on the fuel tank or canopy frame. Too bad I didn't think of it until both of mine were done. Next plane, maybe. One of the slickest KR canopy installations I've ever seen was on the "Area51" KR at Perry. It has nylon rollers on the aft lower edges of the frame which ride inside a square tube with a slot cut in it. The front edge rides in a similar piece of tubing. Strong as the day is long. No mere gust of wind is going to rip this thing off! There's a picture at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/97y.jpg and several more pictures of the sliding canopy arrangement at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/k97gathr.html if you don't mind wading thru about 17 more pictures to get the them. I always find something interesting though in these Gathering pictures. Gee, I didn't mean to right another book. Don't know if this has helped you at all, but it might help somebody just getting started. Any other suggestions are more than welcome... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:17:04 -0700 From: Mike Mims CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> canopy front hinge placement Message-ID: <390C5C80.9229BC8@home.com> --------------C78C6DD188A4412F2AFE455D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Langford wrote: >How about if you put your tank baffles at the same place as your hinges connect to >the tank, creating a gusset for the hinge mounting point, and maybe glued a 1/4" >plywood plate (big enough to spread the load) to the back of the tank with the bolt > countersunk into it so that the tank's integrity wouldn't be compromised at > all? Check this out. -- __________________ Micheal Mims Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! --------------C78C6DD188A4412F2AFE455D-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:22:04 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR> canopy front hinge placement Message-ID: <390C5DAC.E1547C39@home.com> Mike Mims wrote: > > Check this out. > Can we not do attachments? -- __________________ Micheal Mims Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:56:15 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR> canopy front hinge placement Message-ID: <390C65AF.58BB916A@home.com> Mike Mims wrote: > > > Check this out. Ok, check THIS out! :o) http://members.home.net/mikemims/hardpoint.jpg -- __________________ Micheal Mims Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:15:54 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> canopy front hinge placement Message-ID: <004301bfb2c7$be351890$a5f780ce@300emachine> Mike Mims wrote: > Ok, check THIS out! :o) Exactly what I had in mind! But I was too lazy to draw a picture. I sent Mike an email (but meant to send it to the list!) that attachments are turned off to prevent stuff like the Happy99 from ruining anybody else's day, so post stuff to a web site and then publish the URL... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 07:54:52 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: CruzJ12@aol.com Subject: KR> KR gathering this year Message-ID: Could someone post the dates for this years KR gathering at Lake Barkley?..phone #'s for reservations......thanks Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 07:30:30 -0500 From: Mark Jones CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR gathering this year Message-ID: <390C2765.2180BCFF@execpc.com> KR Gathering 2000 Friday Sept 22, Saturday Sept 23, Sunday Sept 24. Reservations 800-325-1708. Be sure to mention you are with the KR Gathering for special rooms and rates. Dinner will be catered to the airport both Friday night and Saturday Lunch. The dinner banquet and awards are Saturday night. CruzJ12@aol.com wrote: > Could someone post the dates for this years KR gathering at Lake > Barkley?..phone #'s for reservations......thanks Joe -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI USA mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************