From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 25 May 2000 12:57:03 -0000 Issue 32 Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 4:57 AM krnet Digest 25 May 2000 12:57:03 -0000 Issue 32 Topics (messages 675 through 704): Western Aircraft Supply 675 by: HAshraf.aol.com 680 by: cartera vert. members 676 by: Neal Hinson 677 by: Tom Kilgore 681 by: virgnvs.juno.com Composite Sandwich Question ... 678 by: APECORAR.steelcase.com 679 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com 686 by: AviationMech.aol.com 688 by: w.g. kirkland 693 by: Ross Youngblood 695 by: Gaston Landry 700 by: Ronald R. Eason Re: engine change(wing walk) 682 by: Ross Youngblood 689 by: AviationMech.aol.com Re: fuel gauge 683 by: Ross Youngblood 684 by: Ross Youngblood 690 by: w.g. kirkland 694 by: Ross Youngblood Re: FUEL TANKS 685 by: Ross Youngblood Re: wing walk-lighter side. 687 by: w.g. kirkland 692 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Composite Sandwich Quest 691 by: APECORAR.steelcase.com Emergency parachute 696 by: Dave Henderson Sling Seat is for the birds! 697 by: Mike Mims website 698 by: John and Janet Martindale 699 by: Mark Langford 701 by: Gaston Landry Composite Sandwich Results 702 by: APECORAR.steelcase.com Corvaircraft web site 703 by: flykr2s.execpc.com 704 by: flykr2s.execpc.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:50:07 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Western Aircraft Supply Message-ID: <66.3ec22a5.265c8f4f@aol.com> Is western aircraft supply still in business? Haris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:04:47 -0600 To: HAshraf@aol.com From: cartera CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Western Aircraft Supply Message-ID: <392BE17F.DDA4FF87@cuug.ab.ca> HAshraf@aol.com wrote: > > Is western aircraft supply still in business? > > Haris > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org Yep!! -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:55:35 -0600 To: From: "Neal Hinson" Subject: vert. members Message-ID: <001a01bfc533$eb830720$4b5329c0@pavilion> hey fellas I am just getting started on my kr2s and I am looking at the >drawings. the problem is that i can't seem to figure out is what are the >lengths of the vert. members of the fuse. J-O. the plans don't say and the >drawings don't call them out either? the drawing i am looking at is "side >framing layout" drawing A 1992. any help would be appreciated. also, I am >going to build my boat out of doug fir/ maybe hemlock. what do ya think? neal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 01:01:51 -0700 To: From: "Tom Kilgore" Subject: Re: KR> vert. members Message-ID: <004501bfc556$5175d7c0$1f10ea18@lvcablemodem.com> Neal, The plans are drawn to a 4 to 1 scale so measure from the drawings and multiply by 4 to get the actual length. As for wood, I chose to get spruce from Wicks because I wanted to leave the chore of selecting aircraft grade wood to the experts. The Douglas fir will work fine but will give you a few more pounds of weight in your boat. If you do want to use something other than spruce, then get yourself a copy of "EAA's Aircraft Building Techniques-Wood". It's available from most of the homebuilt supply companies. It has all the information you would need plus a lot of other things that are of intrest and some that isn't. Tom Kilgore Las Vegas, NV tkilgore@lvcm.com > hey fellas > I am just getting started on my kr2s and I am looking at the > >drawings. the problem is that i can't seem to figure out is what are the > >lengths of the vert. members of the fuse. J-O. the plans don't say and the > >drawings don't call them out either? the drawing i am looking at is "side > >framing layout" drawing A 1992. any help would be appreciated. also, I am > >going to build my boat out of doug fir/ maybe hemlock. what do ya think? > neal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:23:51 -0700 To: nhh@email.byu.edu From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> vert. members Message-ID: <20000524.113209.-323039.4.virgnvs@juno.com> Use Aircraft Spruce or Fir. Careful with unknowns. Virg On Tue, 23 May 2000 21:55:35 -0600 "Neal Hinson" writes: > hey fellas > I am just getting started on my kr2s and I am looking at the > >drawings. the problem is that i can't seem to figure out is what > are the > >lengths of the vert. members of the fuse. J-O. the plans don't say > and the > >drawings don't call them out either? the drawing i am looking at > is "side > >framing layout" drawing A 1992. any help would be appreciated. > also, I am > >going to build my boat out of doug fir/ maybe hemlock. what do ya > think? > neal > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:47:00 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: APECORAR@steelcase.com Subject: Composite Sandwich Question ... Message-ID: Good day Netters, I have some questions regarding the thickness of a composite sandwich component - in my case, the forward deck. (FYI: I am using blue styrofoam (hotwiring) and kevlar) I already have the top surface layed up and proceeded to cut out the bottom surface to complete the structure. I built some templates to provide a 3/8" core of styrofoam (also compensating for the thickness of the kevlar), set my piece in place and hotwired it. When I removed the piece I noticed that the core was thinner than 3/8". I took out a measuring tape and measured it ... I was left with a 1/4" thin core. Hmmm ... I started scratching my head and wondered what went awry. But I guess that's a moot point right now. So, my questions are: 1) Is 1/4" blue styrofoam core too thin for composite sandwich structures or can I still work around by adding an extra layer or two of kevlar and/or E-glass? 2) With only one layer of cured glass on the structure it seems quite flimsy. How stiff does the structure become with both top and bottom glass layers applied? i.e. how much should I expect it to flex - 1/2", 1", ...? Thanks in advance. Albert Pecoraro KR-2S Grand Rapid, MI EAA Chapter 211 - Grand Haven, MI ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:01:12 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Composite Sandwich Question ... Message-ID: <17.5fc5bbe.265d1e88@aol.com> In a message dated 05/24/2000 7:50:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, APECORAR@steelcase.com writes: << How stiff does the structure become with both top and bottom glass layers applied? >> When you apply a layer of glass to the underneath side, you achieve a tremendous amount of structural integrity. Mark Langford doesn't have much more foam material on this wings than you do on your forward deck. Go ahead a apply a layer of glass on the inside. You will be impressed with the improved strength. Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:44:48 EDT To: APECORAR@steelcase.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Composite Sandwich Question ... Message-ID: <3a.58b4622.265d52f0@aol.com> In a message dated 5/24/00 7:50:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, APECORAR@steelcase.com writes: << I have some questions regarding the thickness of a composite sandwich component - in my case, the forward deck. (FYI: I am using blue styrofoam (hotwiring) and kevlar) >> How much structure you need depends on how much weight the structure must carry. My forward Rand deck supports my radio stack, and forms the instrument panel. What will yours support? If it is just a cover, Dana is right. I hope you don't plan to expose your cover to fuel, as in a header tank. You probably already know blue styro melts in the presence of fuel, even a drop!! Orma aviationmech@aol.com http://members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:59:26 -0400 To: , From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: Re: KR> Composite Sandwich Question ... Message-Id: <200005241558.LAA27336@dreams.vianet.on.ca> ------=_NextPart_000_01BFC577.82467960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert. I have urethane foam in mine. It is about 1" thick and it is quite strong with very little flex. Not much more than 1/2". In theory the inner and outer layers carry all the load and the further apart they are the stronger will be the structure but the limit comes when the interior (foam) fails in shear or crumbles. In practice I think 1/4" will be fine. your better than 1/2 way there why not finish it. Be sure to seal the styrofoam completely because if gas gets to it , it just disintigrates. Let me know how u make out. I'm still working on mine. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: APECORAR@steelcase.com > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> Composite Sandwich Question ... > Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 7:47 AM > > Good day Netters, > > I have some questions regarding the thickness of a composite sandwich > component - in my case, the forward deck. (FYI: I am using blue styrofoam > (hotwiring) and kevlar) > > I already have the top surface layed up and proceeded to cut out the bottom > surface to complete the structure. I built some templates to provide a 3/8" > core of styrofoam (also compensating for the thickness of the kevlar), set my > piece in place and hotwired it. When I removed the piece I noticed that the > core was thinner than 3/8". I took out a measuring tape and measured it .. I > was left with a 1/4" thin core. Hmmm ... I started scratching my head and > wondered what went awry. But I guess that's a moot point right now. > > So, my questions are: > > 1) Is 1/4" blue styrofoam core too thin for composite sandwich structures or > can I still work around by adding an extra layer or two of kevlar and/or > E-glass? > > 2) With only one layer of cured glass on the structure it seems quite flimsy. > How stiff does the structure become with both top and bottom glass layers > applied? i.e. how much should I expect it to flex - 1/2", 1", ...? > > Thanks in advance. > > Albert Pecoraro > KR-2S > Grand Rapid, MI > EAA Chapter 211 - Grand Haven, MI > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------=_NextPart_000_01BFC577.82467960-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:05:04 -0700 To: APECORAR@steelcase.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Composite Sandwich Question ... Message-ID: <392C4400.A7DBBECC@teleport.com> Albert, I had a thicker sandwich using 1" urethane foam and used the fine weave Kevlar sold by ACS. (I don't recall the number). This was a lighter material than the KR glass, but was really flimsy, so I had to put 2 layups onto the deck. Then I ultimately glassed the inside of the deck which gave me the required stiffness that I wanted. For the aft deck, I decided to try the coarse weave Kevlar, and this worked out much better, although it was not as much of a weight savings over a single BID glass. With two BID of Kevlar, I think I have the tensile strength surpassing 4 BID of KR glass, but this is probably overlooking some critical stress analysis rule of thumb. It is less rigid than the same aft deck would be made out of glass, but TOUGH. I think that if you want really light weight and RIGID sub assemblies, then carbon fiber would be a good material. Or, you can use Kevlar on one side of the sandwich and glass (1 layer only) on the other. In the case of my aft deck, I did not make a sandwich, I removed all foam about 2' after the canopy. The area imeediatly aft of the canopy has glass on the inside of the sandwich, and a truss "V" like pattern and is VERY strong. You can put all your weight on the top during entry and exit without any deflection. I don't believe it will survive a hard rollover incident, but it would support the aft end in a flip over assuming it hits with less than 2-3g's. (I haven't tested the assembly to distruction) I haven't weighed my aft deck, but think it is probably at least 30-50% lighter than the glass aft deck. Any one have the weight for the KR2 and KR2S aft decks? -- Ross APECORAR@steelcase.com wrote: > Good day Netters, > > I have some questions regarding the thickness of a composite sandwich > component - in my case, the forward deck. (FYI: I am using blue styrofoam > (hotwiring) and kevlar) > > I already have the top surface layed up and proceeded to cut out the bottom > surface to complete the structure. I built some templates to provide a 3/8" > core of styrofoam (also compensating for the thickness of the kevlar), set my > piece in place and hotwired it. When I removed the piece I noticed that the > core was thinner than 3/8". I took out a measuring tape and measured it ... I > was left with a 1/4" thin core. Hmmm ... I started scratching my head and > wondered what went awry. But I guess that's a moot point right now. > > So, my questions are: > > 1) Is 1/4" blue styrofoam core too thin for composite sandwich structures or > can I still work around by adding an extra layer or two of kevlar and/or > E-glass? > > 2) With only one layer of cured glass on the structure it seems quite flimsy. > How stiff does the structure become with both top and bottom glass layers > applied? i.e. how much should I expect it to flex - 1/2", 1", ...? > > Thanks in advance. > > Albert Pecoraro > KR-2S > Grand Rapid, MI > EAA Chapter 211 - Grand Haven, MI > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:27:12 ADT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Gaston Landry" Subject: Re: KR> Composite Sandwich Question ... Message-ID: <20000524232712.12254.qmail@hotmail.com> I've heard somewhere that Kevlar deteriorates under UV... not sure if that's true of ALL types of Kevlar, but I'm thinking if I wanted to use Kevlar on one side of the sandwich, I'd pick the inside... (unless the heat from the engine on the cowling could be an issue...) >From: Ross Youngblood >... Or, you can use Kevlar on one side of the >sandwich and glass (1 layer only) on the other... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 07:26:52 -0500 To: "Gaston Landry" , From: "Ronald R. Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Composite Sandwich Question ... Message-ID: <000d01bfc644$83793de0$5d7239ce@winbook> You can use S2 Glass which is stronger and lighter because you can use lighter fabric, its tensile is very high. I using it in allot of areas on my KR. KRron -----Original Message----- From: Gaston Landry To: krnet@mailinglists.org Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 6:27 PM Subject: Re: KR> Composite Sandwich Question ... > >I've heard somewhere that Kevlar deteriorates under UV... not sure if that's >true of ALL types of Kevlar, but I'm thinking if I wanted to use Kevlar on >one side of the sandwich, I'd pick the inside... (unless the heat from the >engine on the cowling could be an issue...) > >>From: Ross Youngblood > >>... Or, you can use Kevlar on one side of the >>sandwich and glass (1 layer only) on the other... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:39:31 -0700 To: Richard Parker From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> engine change(wing walk) Message-ID: <392BF7B2.BB61CD84@teleport.com> For my KR, I didn't do anything special to the wing structure, as I have seen others do. I just used the "no skid" abrasive grit from System III resins, and made a 2"x5" rectangle over the rear spar with the abrasive on it. It highlights, for me, the location of the rear spar. I have the sling seat installed currently, and one must be careful to place ones feet on one of the spars, when entering to keep a good balance. I think it would require some training for passengers to get in/out, but I will cross that bridge after I have flown the 40 hours off... - Ross Richard Parker wrote: > Tom Crawford has a life size sticker of a foot on his wing. It tells you > exactly where to step, and which foot to use in order to correctly get in > and out of the airplane so your arent shuffling around on the wing trying to > figure out which leg to stick in first. > > Rich Parker > > > > Have any of you built in support in the wings were > > > you and your passenger stand when getting in and out > >of the KR or will>>> > > > >Just have the person step where the aft spar is. Seems > >to work for me. Of course you will have to mark it > >with a "step here" sticker or something. > > > >===== > >........| > >.......-^- > >....-/_____\- > >...(O\__o__/O) > >...[#]oxxxo[#] > >-----Y2K Bug--- > >Yes I drive one! > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > >http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:59:42 EDT To: rossy@teleport.com, richontheroad@hotmail.com From: AviationMech@aol.com CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> engine change(wing walk) Message-ID: <26.619ef2f.265d566e@aol.com> In a message dated 5/24/00 11:34:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rossy@teleport.com writes: << I have the sling seat installed currently, and one must be careful to place ones feet >> Hi Ross I have the Rand sling seat and step directly on the center of the seat and always have. No problem. It gets dirty and I scrub it. As to the sealer, PRC are the initials for a company. I cant remember. Most Aviation supply houses can supply the compound. Simply called PRC 1899 B1/2. The 1/2 referred to the pot life, also available in a 2 version. Installed as a sealer between layers of sheetmetal. it is fuel and oil proof. it can be used to repair fuel tanks in large aircraft, where sheetmetal is replaced and the tank must be resealed. It comes in two parts and has to be mixed. It is supplied in cans and self mixing tubes, which can be used with a caucking gun. Once dried it is a tough rubber like substance. It stinks when mixed and does not remove from clothing after cured. I'll do some resurch and send another E-mail with the whole name and a source. Orma aviationmech@aol.com http://members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:42:57 -0700 To: skypilot@frognet.net From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> fuel gauge Message-ID: <392BF881.ADFA75B7@teleport.com> My capacitive sending units required that I glass a metal plate which was drilled and tapped for the SAE flange pattern for the senders. The plate was about 3-4" square if I recall, and the sending unit bolts to it. I believe I roughed up the surface to get a good grip, and glassed it into place with multiple layers of epoxy/flox. The plate does not leak, but the cork gasket's are giving me fits I think.... An RV builder suggested to trash the cork gasket and use some type of sealer for the gasket that RV builders are using. Anyone heard of that? -- Ross david barner wrote: > does anyone have any idea on how to put a fuel sending unit in a tank > after it's built? > I was thinking of cutting a hole in the side to mount it and glass over > it, but if it ever goes bad I'd have to do it all over again. I'd like > to try and glass in a piece that the sending unit would bolt to. Anyone > have any idea's > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:44:43 -0700 To: Mike Mims From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> fuel gauge Message-ID: <392BF8EB.8EFDFD79@teleport.com> I agree with Mike. Fuel gages always indicate 1/2 a tank more fuel than you really have. At least on all the rental aircraft, and when you are on a long cross country. In fact, I think the FAA regs require that the gauges only be accurate when they read empty, but I might be missing somthing. -- Ross Mike Mims wrote: > --- david barner wrote: > > does anyone have any idea on how to put a fuel > > sending unit in a tank after it's built?>>> > > The only reason I installed a fuel sending unit and > gauge in my wing tank is to satisfy the FAA. If mine > ever fails then that’s just the way it is. In my > opinion ALL fuel sending tyep gauges are broken. If > you cant visually see the fuel and you forgot to > visually check the fuel level before takeoff then your > asking for it. Never trust a fuel gauge. Build > yourself a dipstick that is marked every 5 gallons. > Check your fuel before EVERY take off. Fuel related > issues have downed more KRs and killed more KR pilots > than all other issues combined. Think about that. > > ===== > ........| > .......-^- > ....-/_____\- > ...(O\__o__/O) > ...[#]oxxxo[#] > -----Y2K Bug--- > Yes I drive one! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:12:32 -0400 To: "Ross Youngblood" , "Mike Mims" From: "w.g. kirkland" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> fuel gauge Message-Id: <200005241611.MAA01163@dreams.vianet.on.ca> ------=_NextPart_000_01BFC579.566D94C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My guages read fine when full but still read 1/8th tank when the engine went sput sput. Landed forthwith and put 221/2 gal. in the 22 gal tank of my 150. Now ask where my heart was as we executed a forced landing pattern over the field. Who says they are accurate when they are empty! W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: Ross Youngblood > To: Mike Mims > Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> fuel gauge > Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 11:44 AM > > I agree with Mike. Fuel gages always indicate 1/2 a tank more fuel > than you really have. At least on all the rental aircraft, and when you > are on a long cross country. In fact, I think the FAA regs require > that the gauges only be accurate when they read empty, but I might > be missing somthing. > > -- Ross > > Mike Mims wrote: > > > --- david barner wrote: > > > does anyone have any idea on how to put a fuel > > > sending unit in a tank after it's built?>>> > > > > The only reason I installed a fuel sending unit and > > gauge in my wing tank is to satisfy the FAA. If mine > > ever fails then that’s just the way it is. In my > > opinion ALL fuel sending tyep gauges are broken. If > > you cant visually see the fuel and you forgot to > > visually check the fuel level before takeoff then your > > asking for it. Never trust a fuel gauge. Build > > yourself a dipstick that is marked every 5 gallons. > > Check your fuel before EVERY take off. Fuel related > > issues have downed more KRs and killed more KR pilots > > than all other issues combined. Think about that. > > > > ===== > > ........| > > .......-^- > > ....-/_____\- > > ...(O\__o__/O) > > ...[#]oxxxo[#] > > -----Y2K Bug--- > > Yes I drive one! > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------=_NextPart_000_01BFC579.566D94C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:11:44 -0700 To: "w.g. kirkland" From: Ross Youngblood CC: Mike Mims , krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> fuel gauge Message-ID: <392C458F.D621B315@teleport.com> --------------62D24560BE86C7A4D84C6712 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill, I guess my point was that after we agreed NEVER to rely on fuel gauges, I recalled thinking that the regulations only require that they read "E" when empty on the initial calibration. Cessna hasn't shipped any new C-150's with calibrated fuel senders lately, so perhaps you should have tweeked the senders before putting the 22 gallons back in. ;) In fact, the way I chose to install my capacitive senders, I may have limited luck in calibrating. I believe I can get "E" and "F" for empty and full, but beyond that, I don't expect them to be very accurate. For my wing tanks, I am installing the senders horizontally at the middle of chord (fattest part of cross section), and have to bend down then up to get a good reading. -- Ross "w.g. kirkland" wrote: > My guages read fine when full but still read 1/8th tank when the > engine went sput sput. Landed forthwith and put 221/2 gal. in the 22 > gal tank of my 150. Now ask where my heart was as we executed a forced > landing pattern over the field. Who says they are accurate when they > are empty! > W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND > kirkland@vianet.on.ca > > ---------- > > From: Ross Youngblood > > To: Mike Mims > > Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org > > Subject: Re: KR> fuel gauge > > Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 11:44 AM > > > > I agree with Mike. Fuel gages always indicate 1/2 a tank more fuel > > than you really have. At least on all the rental aircraft, and when > you > > are on a long cross country. In fact, I think the FAA regs require > > > that the gauges only be accurate when they read empty, but I might > > be missing somthing. > > > > -- Ross > > > > Mike Mims wrote: > > > > > --- david barner wrote: > > > > does anyone have any idea on how to put a fuel > > > > sending unit in a tank after it's built?>>> > > > > > > The only reason I installed a fuel sending unit and > > > gauge in my wing tank is to satisfy the FAA. If mine > > > ever fails then that’s just the way it is. In my > > > opinion ALL fuel sending tyep gauges are broken. If > > > you cant visually see the fuel and you forgot to > > > visually check the fuel level before takeoff then your > > > asking for it. Never trust a fuel gauge. Build > > > yourself a dipstick that is marked every 5 gallons. > > > Check your fuel before EVERY take off. Fuel related > > > issues have downed more KRs and killed more KR pilots > > > than all other issues combined. Think about that. > > > > > > ===== > > > ........| > > > .......-^- > > > ....-/_____\- > > > ...(O\__o__/O) > > > ...[#]oxxxo[#] > > > -----Y2K Bug--- > > > Yes I drive one! > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > > > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org --------------62D24560BE86C7A4D84C6712-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:46:53 -0700 To: AviationMech@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: cschmidt@kaydon.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> FUEL TANKS Message-ID: <392BF96C.B7A87D54@teleport.com> Orma, I too had lots of seepage leaks with water on my tanks. I think I still have some seepage leaks to deal with. Can you fill me in on the "PRC" compound you used to seal the tank opening? i.e. typical applications where it works well (around flanges? or sloshing entire tank?) Thanks! Ross AviationMech@aol.com wrote: > N110LR has the Rand tank. I also used the Rand forward deck. once the seams > are glued together (I used polyester resin since the tank was constructed of > the same material) I leak checked several times with water repaired all the > leaks, then leaked checked with fuel and repaired those leaks. The process > was laborious, but he tank has not leaked or failed. The same is not true > for the tank that I built from foam. The Rand tank as installed sits on the > flats of angle brackets mounted to each longeron. the bracket has rubber > pads on top to prevent chaffing between the tank and bracket. I used a > commercial fuel cap assembly installing it in the top of the tank using > rivets and PRC compound 1899B1/2, to make the two parts seal. The upper side > of the tank has sealed nutplates installed to allow the forward deck to be > attached to the tank at the filler opening and can be removed when necessary. > I am using a capacitence type sender and gauge. the tank probe is mounted > to the aft wall of the tank in the area of the radio stack. Again this tank > opening was sealed with the PRC compound. > > Orma > aviationmech@aol.com > http://members.aol.com/aviationmech > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:02:23 -0400 To: , From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: Re: KR> wing walk-lighter side. Message-Id: <200005241544.LAA22774@dreams.vianet.on.ca> ------=_NextPart_000_01BFC4F1.CF216D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the advice Gary. I bought a small piece for just that purpose. Trust it works. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ---------- > From: KR2616TJ@aol.com > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> wing walk-lighter side. > Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 7:34 AM > > In a message dated 05/22/2000 8:26:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > GARYKR2@cs.com writes: > > << Have any of you built in support in the wings were you and your passenger > stand when getting in and out of the KR or will glassing the top (2layers > BID) and bottom (1 layer BID inside the wing) on the top foam pannel be > suffcient? >> > > > Guys, this is not a "certified" structural analysis but it worked for me:-). > I took a piece of carbon fiber, about one foot square, and threw it in the > burn pile. After that I pitched it in the back yard. I have run over it > with the ol John Deere every time I have cut the grass (OK don't go getting > smart and ask me how many times I cut the grass:-) since last summer. I am > yet able to cut it into two pieces. All the mower has done to it is throw it > around the back yard. I kinda doubt the FAA or NTSB use this strategy but > it's pretty darn impressive. > > Moral to the story.....................save weight and put on a layer of > carbon fiber. > > > Dana Overall > 2000 KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------=_NextPart_000_01BFC4F1.CF216D20-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:23:30 -0700 To: KR2616TJ@aol.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> wing walk-lighter side. Message-ID: <392C2C32.61923C6B@teleport.com> Dana, This is the coolest structural analysis I have seen in some time! KR2616TJ@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 05/22/2000 8:26:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > GARYKR2@cs.com writes: > > << Have any of you built in support in the wings were you and your passenger > stand when getting in and out of the KR or will glassing the top (2layers > BID) and bottom (1 layer BID inside the wing) on the top foam pannel be > suffcient? >> > > Guys, this is not a "certified" structural analysis but it worked for me:-). > I took a piece of carbon fiber, about one foot square, and threw it in the > burn pile. After that I pitched it in the back yard. I have run over it > with the ol John Deere every time I have cut the grass (OK don't go getting > smart and ask me how many times I cut the grass:-) since last summer. I am > yet able to cut it into two pieces. All the mower has done to it is throw it > around the back yard. I kinda doubt the FAA or NTSB use this strategy but > it's pretty darn impressive. > > Moral to the story.....................save weight and put on a layer of > carbon fiber. > > Dana Overall > 2000 KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:27:00 -0400 To: kirkland@vianet.on.ca From: APECORAR@steelcase.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Composite Sandwich Quest Message-ID: Netters, Thanks for your input. Based on the answers to my questions about composite sandwich construction of the forward deck, I should still have a pretty strong forward deck with 1/4" blue foam core sandwiched between a "Kevlar & E-glass" combo, top and bottom. BTW: I am not using a header tank, so I am not worried about fuel coming into contact with the blue foam. I'll let you all know how this thing turns out. Thanks. Albert Pecoraro ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 18:58:27 -0700 To: "krnet" From: "Dave Henderson" Subject: Emergency parachute Message-ID: <001001bfc5ec$bf3d90e0$c9404cd1@stormnet.com> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC5B2.0CBFA500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kr-netters Now it's my turn to give my .02$ worth on the parachute idea. = Appreciate all the comments regarding this topic. I think all of you = made some very good points. I just wanted to try to add a little if I = could. Before I became a "real pilot" (ha! ha!), I flew ultralights for = about 10 years. Over the years I owned several ultralights, and nearly = all of them equipped with ballistic parachutes. As one person noted, = BRS is one manufacturer, and a good one I might add. There may be more = now, but a few years ago when I was flying ultralights, the two main = manufacturers were BRS (Ballistic Recovery Systems) and Second Chantz. = I've had both on my ultralights, but unfortunately I can't tell you how = well they worked, because fortunately for me I never had to use them; = although, I came very very close once. I will not discredit anyone else's ideas, but can only speak for myself. = I am not about to jump out of my airplane. It was my intention all = along to install a ballistic chute on my KR2 when it is completed. When = I flew my parachute equipped ultralights, I always wore a chute harness = that had a main strap that attached to the main bridle cable on the = chute, so that in the event of a structural failure of the aircraft, if = the plane decided to go one way and the parachute the other, I would = stay attached to the chute. There's only one problem with that. If = you're strapped to the plane via seat belts, and the chute separates = from the plane, you become the link that connects the plane and chute = together. OUCH!!! That wasn't as big a problem with ultralights (by = legal definition 254 lbs or less). My opinion? Expel all thoughts of = installing a quick release from your belts and exiting out the top. For = pitty sake's STAY IN YOUR PLANE. I'm going to build a very strong = triangulated bracket that joins both spars together that provides one = very strong upright support with a big ring on the top just behind the = seats. That ring is what the parachute will be attached to. If that in = itself isn't enough, then what's the point? Thanks for you input = gentlemen. Happy flying, Dave Henderson Red Bluff, CA =20 flyakr2@tco.net ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC5B2.0CBFA500-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:01:18 -0700 From: Mike Mims CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Sling Seat is for the birds! Message-ID: <392C896E.61D39501@home.com> AviationMech@aol.com wrote: > Hi Ross > I have the Rand sling seat and step directly on the center of the seat and > always have. No problem. It gets dirty and I scrub it. > Then they don't build them like they used too. I have been through two sling seats on my KR and haven't even flown it yet. After the second one started to fall apart I decided to build an aluminum sling. Save your money guys and build your own seats. -- __________________ Micheal Mims Trying to get this thing done! http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://explanes.com/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:00:54 +1000 To: "To post messages to the new KRNet" From: "John and Janet Martindale" Subject: website Message-ID: <001401bfc638$8414ff20$47c429cb@f6q6r4> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFC68C.50B62A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could someone please advise of the Corvaircraft website or email address = please. Thanks John. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFC68C.50B62A60-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 06:43:32 -0500 To: "To post messages to the new KRNet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> website Message-ID: <001001bfc63e$74e7bf00$58e6a58c@tbe.com> >Could someone please advise of the Corvaircraft website or email address >please. Thanks John. I don't think there is a website, exactly, but you may subscribe by sending a message with "subscribe corvaircraft" in the body to majordomo@usm.edu. This is from my website in case somebody starts looking for it later. This weekend is the first "Corvair College" in Port Orange, FL, where several CorvAIRCRAFT fanatics will meet and discuss Corvairs in aircraft, build engines, swap ideas, and if you're lucky, fly in William Wynne's Piet. This will all be at Wynne's hangar at the Port Orange airport, where Embry Riddle is (near Daytona Beach). It includes Friday, Sat, Sun, and Monday, if you want to show up. See ya there... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:24:19 ADT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Gaston Landry" Subject: Re: KR> website Message-ID: <20000525122420.98940.qmail@hotmail.com> it's linked off of http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair.html easy to find :o) >From: "John and Janet Martindale" >To: "To post messages to the new KRNet" >Subject: KR> website >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:00:54 +1000 > >Could someone please advise of the Corvaircraft website or email address >please. Thanks John. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:37:00 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: APECORAR@steelcase.com Cc: rossy@teleport.com Subject: Composite Sandwich Results Message-ID: Netters, Last night I completed laying up the bottom side of the forward deck. I was going to use 1 layer kevlar and 1 layer E-glass ... but something compelled me to use 2 layers of kevlar instead. Anyhow, the composite sandwich turned out quite firm. It flexes a bit but it takes some effort. I would like to share some characteristics of the deck I built: Dimensions: Height - 8"; Length - 24" (from firewall to station D) Core: 1/4" Extruded Polystyrene (blue foam) Glass used: Kevlar (2-ply UNI @ 90 degree orientation), weight unknown; 6 oz. BID E-glass Top layer: Kevlar/E-glass Bottom Layer: Kevlar/Kevlar Epoxy: West Systems Weight: 5.75 lbs *N.B. - I still have to trim some extra glass off the edges. This should take a few ounces off the weight. Lessons learned ... This was my first composite piece I have ever built. I would offer these tips to anyone else who is doing something like this for the first time: 1) Ensure that the foam pieces you wedge together fit as close and tight as possible. I had a couple pieces of foam wedges separate after I had the glass layed on top and was squeegeing off the excess epoxy. I applied to much pressue with the squeegee which caused a section of foam wedge to separate. 2) Ensure that the foam core is well secured between your templates. This is to prevent the piece from distorting when you are applying pressure to your layup. 3) Before you mix any epoxy ... Think and plan ahead. This is one thing I think I did right the first time! ;-) I rehearsed what I had to do before doing it and I didn't have any problems (other than sticky gloves! ;-) 4) "Festina lente" - a Latin proverb which means "Make haste slowly"! Take your time and don't rush. I tend to get very excited when I build components of my airplane and I wanted the damn thing done before I even began! ;-) Rushing into it without some forethought will cause you nothing but grief and more time wasted later on. My next step is to do the finish work such as filling, sanding, and priming. Like I said earlier, this is my test piece and I want to practice building a composite piece from start to finish so I can see which skills I need to hone before doing the more critical pieces. Happy building! :-) Albert Pecoraro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 07:42:07 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: flykr2s@execpc.com Cc: Subject: Corvaircraft web site Message-Id: <200005251242.HAA28278@mailgw00.execpc.com> The Corvaircraft web site is: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/corvaircraft/index.html To sign up on the e-mail list simply click on the e-mail list and sign up. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waukesha, WI mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 07:57:00 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: flykr2s@execpc.com Cc: Subject: Re: KR> Corvaircraft web site Message-Id: <200005251257.HAA26717@mailgw01.execpc.com> I got an error Try: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/index.html > The Corvaircraft web site is: > http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/corvaircraft/index.html > To sign up on the e-mail list simply click on the e-mail list and sign > up. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Waukesha, WI > mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com > http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************