From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 29 Jul 2000 21:21:26 -0000 Issue 65 Date: Saturday, July 29, 2000 1:21 PM krnet Digest 29 Jul 2000 21:21:26 -0000 Issue 65 Topics (messages 1399 through 1424): MORE LANDING GEAR 1399 by: Jim V. Wickert 1401 by: AviationMech.aol.com Re: S-glass 1400 by: Mark Langford Re: Manifold Pressure 1402 by: Ross Youngblood Oshkosh report 1403 by: Mark Langford Glass and Foam dont mix??? 1404 by: Clay1Pilot.aol.com 1405 by: Mike Mims 1407 by: Richard Parker 1409 by: Jerry Mahurin NOT QUITE KR BUT GOOD! 1406 by: Livingstone, Danny (DJ) MORE GEAR LEGS 1408 by: Schmidt, Curtis 1410 by: Mike Mims 1411 by: Schmidt, Curtis 1416 by: Frank Ross 1423 by: Schmidt, Curtis passing of a great friend 1412 by: no notta canard flutter? 1413 by: FRED SMITH 1414 by: Jerry Mahurin 1415 by: Mike Mims 1422 by: Eduardo Iglesias Oshkosh report. 1417 by: Mark Jones wing attach fitting orders 1418 by: Mark Langford 1421 by: Rick Hubka Oshkosh forum on eXplanes 1419 by: Mike Mims Re: 1420 by: Aggie lewanda charging systems 1424 by: dene collett Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:59:40 -0400 To: "Schmidt, Curtis" From: "Jim V. Wickert" Cc: "krnet@mailinglists.org" Subject: KR> MORE LANDING GEAR Message-ID: <200007271959_MC2-ADC6-38D8@compuserve.com> Hi Curtis, Wait a minute..... you need to find out what type of phenolic resin it is= made of. Most Phenolics are used because of their High temp capabilities= not their modules of elasticity or shear strength at low temp. = I do a fair amount of work in plastics and resins, also in Sheboygan, WI where I live there is PLENCO, Plastics Engineering Company largest suppli= er of Phenolic resin in the world, they bought GE Plastics division. If you= can get the type of resin it is made from I will run it by the Doc's as Plenco. = The other things to note is the density and the composite, I think it wil= l be quite high against Kevflar or "S" glass and epoxy. Also if it is glas= s composite it will be a bear to machine or cut. Let me know if I can be of help. Jim Wickert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:02:06 EDT To: cschmidt@kaydon.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> MORE LANDING GEAR Message-ID: In a message dated 7/27/00 11:47:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschmidt@kaydon.com writes: > a piece of 5" square phenolic Hi Curt, I know Phenolic is strong, but I don't know how well it springs. Anyway if you dont make a gear, I could think of a few uses for the stuff, so keep my address and let me know if you want to get rid of a foot. Orma A&P /IA KR builder/driver N110LR aviationmech@aol.com http://members.aol.com/aviationmech ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:39:30 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> S-glass Message-ID: <005b01bff82c$4e1f5930$a5f780ce@300emachine> Mike Meyer wrote: >>Just out of curiousity.... Has anyone used s-glass on their KRs? I noticed on the "Aircraft Spruce and Speciality Co" website that S-glass is considerably stronger and lighter than traditional e-glass...Any thoughts?<< The S-glass that I see in AS&S is the same weave and weight as "KR" glass, 30% stronger, 15% stiffer, but 3x the price. Not exactly a bargain, but if you can afford it and don't mind the price, I doubt anyone will fault you for using it... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:16:59 -0700 To: GARYKR2@cs.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Manifold Pressure Message-ID: <3980DF0B.A59BDD7C@teleport.com> I'm thinking that the manifold pressure gague is a differential type gauge and has some reference port setting. The first thing that comes to mind is that somehow the reference and the sensor port are swapped internally to the gague. You didn't mention, is this a NEW gauge? Also has anything changed in your installation? i.e. is this a situation that used to work and is now not working, or has it always done that. Then we can brainstorm other ideas on the 'Net. I'd do a test on the ground and try to draw some type of suction on the gauge, or perhaps a slight pressure to see if the needle moves in the appropriate direction.... I'm guessing that this might be easier to do than pulling the gauge. I'm not sure how a manifold pressure gauge is constructed, if there is some type of internal bellows that is supposed to represent a reference pressure, perhaps there is a leak in it and it is venting to cabin pressure. On the other hand, perhaps there really IS higher pressure in your intake manifold at higher altitudes than at ground level... that is an interesting puzzle, but the 1" per 1000' error is to much of a concidence, I suspect that if there was some type of pressure or turbulence in the intake, it wouldn't be linear like that, and that's why I suspect the gauge is hooked up backwards internally. But then you should see somthing happening backwards when you change throttle positions. (i.e, altering manifold pressure by reving the engine should create a reverse sensing needle activity on the ground.) If you could borrow somone elses manifold pressure gauge, you could insert a "T" in the line, and the working gauge and non working gauge would indicate opposite deflections when you reved the engine. I don't have first hand experience of the needle deflection but I suspect it moves quickly, and might be difficult to tell if its going in the "wrong" direction unless you had a comparision gague, or were a manifold pressure "guru".... I have a beat up manifold pressure gauge that seems to properly indicate atmospheric pressure. It's used old and ugly, but I could try and dig it up out in the garage and ship it to you if you need a cheap solution... However, I suspect you already have more nifty tools and stuff than I do, and were just looking for crazy ideas... which is why I posted. -- Ross GARYKR2@cs.com wrote: > OK guys, time to put your thinking caps on. I need a good answer for > this one. > As I climb, the manifold pressure increases about 1in for every 2500ft > of altitude gained. It is supposed to go down, not up (1in down for each > 1000ft up is normal). > I don't have an answer as of yet for this one. > Carb intake air is taken from top side of engine. I know I get some ram > effect, but this doesn't add up. > Let's get some ideas flying, I'd like to get this figured out. > Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown, Pa. > garykr2@cs.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:21:21 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Oshkosh report Message-ID: <009a01bff832$34bd55e0$a5f780ce@300emachine> KRNetHeads, I just got back from Oshkosh. Had a great time, as usual, mostly visiting with good people and looking at some truly amazing homebuilts. Thanks to Dr. Dean for keeping me entertained, and Mark Jones for some excellent brats and good company. Dean and I checked out all the homebuilts on Tuesday, paying particular attention to wing tips and fairings, my next little job. I also bought my seat belts (Hooker custom builds them for $175 each for a 5 pointer), and we saw some interesting stuff like a new "Ellison replacement" carb from Monett for a target price of $200 (available in a year or so). The "KR2S Airfoil" forum went great, with an overflow crowd! We could have filled the tent twice. At 10:00 we were starting to wonder if the star speaker (Ashok) was going to show, but he was there, just a minute or two late. His presentation was outstanding, and the audience was probably half KR builders and half aero guys, including Bruce Carmichael! Troy couldn't make it because of weather, so I "faked it" for him. Afterwards we did a little interview with Mary Jones for an article on the KRNet synergy that resulted in the new airfoil. She was pretty excited about it, and thought this would be great material for Sport Aviation rather than Experimenter magazine. She's a super lady and we enjoyed talking to her. After that we took the big hike to Dana's Bonanza. He said he parked so far out that he needed a "green card" to get into the show, and he wasn't kidding. Steve Eberhart brought his Cherry BX-2 plans for us to check out, and we watched the airshow while sampling some of Dana's "sodas". It was another good one, from my vantage point. I took a couple of hundred pictures, so I guess I'll throw together some kinda web page, maybe this weekend. You guys can say what you want about the commercialism, the warbirds, the high food prices, and all that other stuff that we seem to find wrong with OSH, but I can't think of a better way to spend a few days of vacation. I'd rather be looking at wierd old engines in the fly mart than working, ANY DAY! Oh, the broken collarbone is just about a distant memory. I'm not exactly doing gymnastics yet, but I did do 8 miles on the mountain bike when I got home today, so I guess I have no excuse not to work on the plane again. That is all... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:55:25 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Clay1Pilot@aol.com Subject: Glass and Foam dont mix??? Message-ID: <84.8a27f98.26b26c3d@aol.com> I put resin and glass on my foam shaped body and it had a bad chemical reaction ... the resin started eating away the foam. WHY? I then put newspaper on the foam 1st and was gonna lay the glass on top of the paper what have I done wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:25:54 -0700 From: Mike Mims CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Glass and Foam dont mix??? Message-ID: <39811962.6D5781AD@home.com> Clay1Pilot@aol.com wrote: > the resin started eating away the foam. WHY? I then put newspaper on the foam 1st and was gonna lay the glass on top of the paper what have I done wrong? > Sounds to me like you are using polyester resin instead of epoxy. Not all foams can handle polyester. -- __________________ Micheal Mims Trying to get this thing done! http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://explanes.com/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:48:11 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR> Glass and Foam dont mix??? Message-ID: You cant use resin with polystyrene foam. You can however use epoxy. Urethane foam can be used with resin but its expensive and hard to find locally so you you end up getting raped by AS+S and pay shipping. I've used West Systems epoxy with pink construction foam (both available locally) for my whole project so far. Rich Parker http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm >From: Clay1Pilot@aol.com >To: krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: KR> Glass and Foam dont mix??? >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:55:25 EDT > >I put resin and glass on my foam shaped body and it had a bad chemical >reaction ... the resin started eating away the foam. WHY? I then put >newspaper on the foam 1st and was gonna lay the glass on top of the paper >what have I done wrong? > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:03:18 GMT To: richontheroad@hotmail.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> Glass and Foam dont mix??? Message-ID: Urethane foam can be found at some commercial refrigeration shops, such as restraunt supply houses, etc. I was lucky enough to find more than enough 'scrap' foam that had been salvaged from commercial installations to build my KR...! This was insulation that had been removed when installing new walk in freezers in restaurants. I raided their scrap heap, paid them $20 and hauled off enough foam for two KRs. That was over 10 years ago though. You do have to do some 'patching' to get the ticker/larger pieces, but not much. Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC >From: "Richard Parker" >To: krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> Glass and Foam dont mix??? >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:48:11 GMT > >You cant use resin with polystyrene foam. You can however use epoxy. > >Urethane foam can be used with resin but its expensive and hard to find >locally so you you end up getting raped by AS+S and pay shipping. > >I've used West Systems epoxy with pink construction foam (both available >locally) for my whole project so far. > >Rich Parker >http://top.monad.net/~theparkers/kr.htm > >>From: Clay1Pilot@aol.com >>To: krnet@mailinglists.org >>Subject: KR> Glass and Foam dont mix??? >>Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:55:25 EDT >> >>I put resin and glass on my foam shaped body and it had a bad chemical >>reaction ... the resin started eating away the foam. WHY? I then put >>newspaper on the foam 1st and was gonna lay the glass on top of the paper >>what have I done wrong? >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:23:38 +0200 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" Subject: NOT QUITE KR BUT GOOD! Message-ID: <042104686D63D311B51A0000C110B8E4449B2C@sasltd06.sasol.com> Prepare for Landing The plane's cabin was being served by an obviously gay flight attendant who was just as obviously enjoying himself. He came swishing down the aisle and announced to the passengers, "Captain Marvey has asked me to announce that he'll be landing this big, scary plane shortly, lovely people, so if you could just put up your trays, that would be super." On his trip back up the aisle, he noticed that a woman hadn't moved a muscle. "Perhaps you didn't hear me over those big brute engines. I asked you to raise your trazy-poo so the main man can pitty-pat us on the ground." She calmly turned her head and said, "In my country, I am called a princess. I take orders from no one". The flight attendant replied, without missing a beat, "Well, sweet-cheeks, in my country, I'm called a queen, so I outrank you. Put the tray up, bitch!" Danny Enjoy your weekend guys/gals ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jul 2000 07:56:00 -0700 To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Schmidt, Curtis" Subject: MORE GEAR LEGS Message-ID: <00006E2C@kaydon.com> Well folks the test is in on the phenolic gear leg, it ain't good,! I made = a gear leg last night to the finish dimensions of 1 inch thick and 25 inche= s long. I brought it to the shop this morning and put it on The hydraulic press for failure test, I set the gear leg in a fixture to si= mulate the mounting bracket and then pressed the leg about 3 inches up from= the bottom. Total failure occurred at just over 11/2 inches of deflection and 600psi! w= ell that just isn't going to cut it for this flyboy! This phenolic I have is a product called Ryertex C grade and is not the pa= per laminate type, it has a definite cloth weave. Well I guess its back to looking at other options! Curt Larned Kansas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:22:05 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR> MORE GEAR LEGS Message-ID: <20000728152205.26097.qmail@web1405.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Schmidt, Curtis" wrote: > Total failure occurred at just over 11/2 inches of > deflection and 600psi! well that just isn't going to > cut it for this flyboy!>>> Hey if your not in any hurry I can build you a leg (like the ones I built), send it to you for testing and if results are positive I can build another or show you how. Plus I can safely publish plans on the net (for free of course) on exactly how to build your own. I think it could be done for less than $150. I would have to go over the numbers again but you would need a 1.5 gallon kit of EZ-Poxy and a few yards of triaxle cloth and a few yards of 3 or 4 inch wide heavy uni tape. I wouldn’t be able to get to this until late August. Let me know what you think. ===== ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jul 2000 10:49:00 -0700 To: "Mike Mims" , "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Schmidt, Curtis" Subject: RE: KR> MORE GEAR LEGS Message-ID: <00007073@kaydon.com> MIKE Hey the plans would be great! As far as sending me a leg, that probably wo= n't be necessary, I've been molding stuff for years, I'm sure I could lay u= p my own! Thanks anyway, guys like you are a really big help and I appreciate it! One question though, do you think the DOW epoxy that Wicks sells would be = OK? I have some and just thought I'd ask. Curt Larned Kansas -----Original Message----- From: Mike Mims [SMTP:kr2sflyer@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 11:22 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Cc: cschmidt@kaydon.com Subject: Re: KR> MORE GEAR LEGS --- "Schmidt, Curtis" wrote: > Total failure occurred at just over 11/2 inches of > deflection and 600psi! well that just isn't going to > cut it for this flyboy!>>> Hey if your not in any hurry I can build you a leg (like the ones I built), send it to you for testing and if results are positive I can build another or show you how. Plus I can safely publish plans on the net (for free of course) on exactly how to build your own. I think it could be done for less than $150. I would have to go over the numbers again but you would need a 1.5 gallon kit of EZ-Poxy and a few yards of triaxle cloth and a few yards of 3 or 4 inch wide heavy uni tape. I wouldn't be able to get to this until late August. Let me know what you think. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 15:51:25 -0700 (PDT) To: Mike Mims , krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> MORE GEAR LEGS Message-ID: <20000728225125.23452.qmail@web4702.mail.yahoo.com> Mike, Boy, that sure sounds like a GREAT forum at the KR Gathering. Especially if everyone was willing to kick in $5 or $10 for the materials to get some hands-on experience. I sure would. What about it? --- Mike Mims wrote: > > --- "Schmidt, Curtis" wrote: > > > Total failure I can build you a leg > (like the ones I built), send it to you for testing > and if results are positive I can build another or > show you how. Plus I can safely publish plans on the > net (for free of course) on exactly how to build > your > own. I think it could be done for less than $150. I > would have to go over the numbers again but you > would > need a 1.5 gallon kit of EZ-Poxy and a few yards of > triaxle cloth and a few yards of 3 or 4 inch wide > heavy uni tape. I wouldn’t be able to get to this > until late August. Let me know what you think. > > ===== > ........| > .......-^- > ....-/_____\- > ...(O\__o__/O) > ...[#]oxxxo[#] > -----Y2K Bug--- > Yes I drive one! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jul 2000 07:49:00 -0700 To: "Frank Ross" , "Mike Mims" , "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Schmidt, Curtis" Subject: RE: KR> MORE GEAR LEGS Message-ID: <000073C4@kaydon.com> Speaking of gatherings, is there still one in Perry OK? -----Original Message----- From: Frank Ross [SMTP:kae_ar@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 6:52 PM To: Mike Mims; krnet@mailinglists.org Cc: cschmidt@kaydon.com Subject: Re: KR> MORE GEAR LEGS Mike, Boy, that sure sounds like a GREAT forum at the KR Gathering. Especially if everyone was willing to kick in $5 or $10 for the materials to get some hands-on experience. I sure would. What about it? --- Mike Mims wrote: > > --- "Schmidt, Curtis" wrote: > > > Total failure I can build you a leg > (like the ones I built), send it to you for testing > and if results are positive I can build another or > show you how. Plus I can safely publish plans on the > net (for free of course) on exactly how to build > your > own. I think it could be done for less than $150. I > would have to go over the numbers again but you > would > need a 1.5 gallon kit of EZ-Poxy and a few yards of > triaxle cloth and a few yards of 3 or 4 inch wide > heavy uni tape. I wouldn't be able to get to this > until late August. Let me know what you think. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ........| > .......-^- > ....-/_____\- > ...(O\__o__/O) > ...[#]oxxxo[#] > -----Y2K Bug--- > Yes I drive one! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:02:07 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: no notta Subject: passing of a great friend Message-ID: <20000728160207.10071.qmail@web902.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Fellow Pilot's & Builders, Just a Quick note to inform anyone who might want to know. On Wednesday night July 26th My Dear friend Nathanial Halsmer, died in the crash of his new experimental airplane the "Crazy Eight". Many of us may know Nathanial from his numerous appearances at Oshkosh and through his many accomplishments and contributions in experimental aircraft as a designer/builder & test pilot of unique aircraft. Some of us may remember he comes from a family of aviation pioneers. We had just completed the FAA inspection earlier that day and none of us know exactly what went wrong. Nate was 22 and had accomplished more in that short time then most accomplish in a whole lifetime. He will be sorely missed. Funeral services will be at the Rossville, IN. Methodist Church on saturday July 29th at 2:00 PM If you like you can see a picture of Nate and the airplane that was his last dream at his web site www.ultimateairplanes.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:58:50 -0500 To: dragon list , airsoob list for E-81 , "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: FRED SMITH Subject: canard flutter? Message-ID: <3981C9DA.D94C8A0E@bushnell.net> I am building a KR2S and own a Dragonfly built by someone else. Have landed in dirt 2 times because of water/radiator problems. tore off fiberglass legs both times. Now have alum legs and 5 x 500 tires. have landed 9 times with good feel. still testing new radiator under cowl. seems to be holding at 200 degrees. Probably will not ever fly this plane again unless someone can give me very good idea and reason of what happened. Coming in on 5ooo' concrete runway for the 2nd touch and go. Previous landing great. About 200' agl and on final- dead calm day - air speed and gps showing 80knts. Suddenly the canard starts flexing and bending really bad. Nose bouncing up and down 6-12" and side to side same. can see canard flexing in all directions 4-6" .I never wanted to have something on the ground so much. Attitude to final approach still on money but plane bouncing all over. Raised nose slightly to bleed off speed but still wanted down. ??Flutter?? slowed down as air speed went lower and quit at about 3-4' above runway. Made another good and soft landing. I am amassed the canard held together and shows no damage. I know the Kr2 has to have controls balanced to prevent control flutter, but this appeared to be flutter in the whole canard. the wing stayed level during the whole time. The plane is heavy and with the (E-81 -nothing special - prob 65hp) the cruise by GPS is 90knts. Have new warp drive 3 blade prop set at 10 degrees which has flown about 3 hrs. Have never had handling problem before. Plane now has aprox 130 Hrs on it. 3 Hrs with new prop, cowling with radiator and bigger tires. Any help and suggestions will be appreciated. I will still probably part out and wait until kr is built , but want to have idea of what is going on. Thanks in advance Fred Smith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:38:51 GMT To: fsinds@bushnell.net, dragonlist@inter2.interstice.com, airsoob@lists.kz, krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> canard flutter? Message-ID: The hard landings in the dirt may have weakened the internal structure of the canard, but the weight of the wheels helped stabilize the canard. When you removed the weight of the wheels from the ends of the canard, it allows it to flutter at higher angle of attack (such as in a landing). This is just all conjecture on my part........ Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC >From: FRED SMITH >To: dragon list , airsoob list for >E-81 , "krnet@mailinglists.org" > >Subject: KR> canard flutter? >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:58:50 -0500 > >I am building a KR2S and own a Dragonfly built by someone else. Have >landed in dirt 2 times because of water/radiator problems. tore off >fiberglass legs both times. Now have alum legs and 5 x 500 tires. have >landed 9 times with good feel. still testing new radiator under cowl. >seems to be holding at 200 degrees. Probably will not ever fly this >plane again unless someone can give me very good idea and reason of what >happened. Coming in on 5ooo' concrete runway for the 2nd touch and go. >Previous landing great. About 200' agl and on final- dead calm day - air >speed and gps showing 80knts. Suddenly the canard starts flexing and >bending really bad. Nose bouncing up and down 6-12" and side to side >same. can see canard flexing in all directions 4-6" .I never wanted to >have something on the ground so much. Attitude to final approach still >on money but plane bouncing all over. Raised nose slightly to bleed off >speed but still wanted down. ??Flutter?? slowed down as air speed went >lower and quit at about 3-4' above runway. Made another good and soft >landing. I am amassed the canard held together and shows no damage. I >know the Kr2 has to have controls balanced to prevent control flutter, >but this appeared to be flutter in the whole canard. the wing stayed >level during the whole time. The plane is heavy and with the (E-81 >-nothing special - prob 65hp) the cruise by GPS is 90knts. Have new warp >drive 3 blade prop set at 10 degrees which has flown about 3 hrs. Have >never had handling problem before. Plane now has aprox 130 Hrs on it. 3 >Hrs with new prop, cowling with radiator and bigger tires. Any help and >suggestions will be appreciated. I will still probably part out and wait >until kr is built , but want to have idea of what is going on. > >Thanks in advance >Fred Smith > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:59:21 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Mike Mims Subject: Re: KR> canard flutter? Message-ID: <20000728215921.23670.qmail@web1405.mail.yahoo.com> I would check the following. First check the four mounting bolts (obvious) then jack up the plane so there is no weight on the canard (asuming the wheels are still conected to the canard and not mounted on a hoop system). Make sure the two bulkheads that the canard bolts to are still secured to the fuselage by trying to move canard around by hand. Check and make sure the control horns and linkage to the stick are all tight. Make sure your sparrow strainers are not mounted weird. Make sure there is no play (slop) between the elevators. Try twisting the canard by hand and if all else fails remove the canard and inspect the canard bulkheads and then load test the canard. It sounds to me that the mounting of the canard is out of whack or loose. Good Luck. ===== ........| .......-^- ....-/_____\- ...(O\__o__/O) ...[#]oxxxo[#] -----Y2K Bug--- Yes I drive one! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 01:03:13 -0300 To: "FRED SMITH" , "dragon list" , "airsoob list for E-81" , From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Subject: RE: KR> canard flutter? Message-ID: <007e01bff913$bae492a0$5b1c33c8@EduardoIglesias> Fred It is´nt possible that it has damages in the structure of the canard? I think in two hard landings. Test it. Eduardo -----Mensaje original----- De: FRED SMITH Para: dragon list ; airsoob list for E-81 ; krnet@mailinglists.org Fecha: Viernes, 28 de Julio de 2000 03:02 p.m. Asunto: KR> canard flutter? >I am building a KR2S and own a Dragonfly built by someone else. Have >landed in dirt 2 times because of water/radiator problems. tore off >fiberglass legs both times. Now have alum legs and 5 x 500 tires. have >landed 9 times with good feel. still testing new radiator under cowl. >seems to be holding at 200 degrees. Probably will not ever fly this >plane again unless someone can give me very good idea and reason of what >happened. Coming in on 5ooo' concrete runway for the 2nd touch and go. >Previous landing great. About 200' agl and on final- dead calm day - air >speed and gps showing 80knts. Suddenly the canard starts flexing and >bending really bad. Nose bouncing up and down 6-12" and side to side >same. can see canard flexing in all directions 4-6" .I never wanted to >have something on the ground so much. Attitude to final approach still >on money but plane bouncing all over. Raised nose slightly to bleed off >speed but still wanted down. ??Flutter?? slowed down as air speed went >lower and quit at about 3-4' above runway. Made another good and soft >landing. I am amassed the canard held together and shows no damage. I >know the Kr2 has to have controls balanced to prevent control flutter, >but this appeared to be flutter in the whole canard. the wing stayed >level during the whole time. The plane is heavy and with the (E-81 >-nothing special - prob 65hp) the cruise by GPS is 90knts. Have new warp >drive 3 blade prop set at 10 degrees which has flown about 3 hrs. Have >never had handling problem before. Plane now has aprox 130 Hrs on it. 3 >Hrs with new prop, cowling with radiator and bigger tires. Any help and >suggestions will be appreciated. I will still probably part out and wait >until kr is built , but want to have idea of what is going on. > >Thanks in advance >Fred Smith > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:58:20 -0500 To: KR-Net From: Mark Jones Subject: Oshkosh report. Message-ID: <3982100B.E4C75090@execpc.com> Hi Netters, I just got home from my first day at Oshkosh. The first thing on the agenda for me was to attend a Composite 101 forum. I was very impressed with the way it started out. On the first overhead the instructor put up on the screen, in the opening statement was that Ken Rand with his KR-1 and Rutan were the pioneers in composite construction. I was wearing my 1999 KR Gathering T-shirt and the instructor acknowledged that there was even a KR builder in the crowd. During the forum, the instructor used the KR construction as a reference more than he did any other aircraft. Made me feel right proud. On another note, I did not see a single KR at Oshkosh today to which I was very disappointed. I hope I just missed them and hope to find some tomorrow. -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:00:41 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: wing attach fitting orders Message-ID: <0e7201bff8f8$6b324e20$a5f780ce@300emachine> NetHeads, I've forgotten to post this for the last four Fridays, but somehow I remembered this time. We're getting ready to make a bunch of KR2S wing attach fittings, and I have 9 people that want them so far. Any more takers? I'm trying to figure out how many to make this time around. More details are available at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet/ . They're $275 per set, which is about half the price of RR's, and they're every bit as good. Email me direct at langford@hiwaay.net if you'd like a set and haven't gotten on the list yet. We're also making two sets of 4130 upper gear attach brackets. Mark Langford, Trailing Edge Technologies, LLC. mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:28:39 -0600 To: From: "Rick Hubka" Subject: Re: KR> wing attach fitting orders Message-ID: <003001bff90d$1e4b36c0$0200005a@powerbuilder> Hey Mark Since it's Friday!!!!! Have any other NetHeads expressed interest in purchasing the Landing Gear brackets that Dr. Dean made from TET? Count me in for sure if you decide to make them. Thanks Just thought I'd stir the pot since it was friday... Hoping to get back at the S next week after a 7+ month absence. Rick Hubka Email: rick@hubka.com Web Site: www.hubka.com Calgary, Alberta, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 7:00 PM Subject: KR> wing attach fitting orders > NetHeads, > > I've forgotten to post this for the last four Fridays, but somehow I > remembered this time. > > We're getting ready to make a bunch of KR2S wing attach fittings, and I have > 9 people that want them so far. Any more takers? I'm trying to figure out > how many to make this time around. More details are available at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet/ . They're $275 per set, which is > about half the price of RR's, and they're every bit as good. Email me > direct at langford@hiwaay.net if you'd like a set and haven't gotten on the > list yet. We're also making two sets of 4130 upper gear attach brackets. > > Mark Langford, Trailing Edge Technologies, LLC. > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:25:43 -0700 From: Mike Mims CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Oshkosh forum on eXplanes Message-ID: <398240A7.C6800D63@home.com> Hey if you guys want stop in and share your Oshkosh experience on the www.explanes.com forums. I will start a new one on Oshkosh 2000. -- __________________ Micheal Mims Trying to get this thing done! http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/ http://explanes.com/ Aliso Viejo Ca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:37:22 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Aggie lewanda Subject: Re: Message-ID: <20000729033722.23183.qmail@web1403.mail.yahoo.com> --- Aggie lewanda wrote: > Dear fellow KR Builders, > > I just received my plans in the mail today from R-R and started reading. > That probably makes me the greenest guy on this list. I am building a KR-2S > and have a lot of questions. > > I have been reading everything I can find on the net about the KR's > particularly after I made the decision to build one from plans. One of the > things I saw in several postings to the net concerned pitch sensitivity. > I know the KR-2S version is longer and was designed, at least in part, to > correct the pitch sensitivity by giving the elevators a longer moment. > My question is this. Is the S version lengthened sufficiently to correct > the shortcomings of the original KR-2, or, would any of you builders make > the fuselage even longer if you were just cutting your first spruce today? > > Also, if I choose to add anything to the length in the KR-2S plans, > what portion of the extension would be on each side of the C.G.? I was > considering adding another foot, ten inches on the tail and two inches on > the firewall end. > > When reading other people's web pages and thinking out loud with a > pencil in hand, a fellow has all sorts of brilliant ideas about what he can > do to customize his bird and make every possible improvement. However, > when it comes time to cut spruce, I suddenly remember that I am not an > aeronautical engineer and the only airplane I ever built had a 36 inch > wingspan and a .60 engine. > > Speaking of engines, my KR-2S will have a 110 H.P. Corvair (I just > bought William Wynn's manual). Therefore I am not worried if extending the > fuselage an extra 12 inches adds a few pounds to the finished plane. On > the subject of power, I am also looking for an inexpensive 1965 - 1969 > Corvair engine that I can re-build. Close to me in Greenville, SC would > be a plus. > > What I am really hoping to hear is about a half dozen of you who > have built and flown a KR-2S who will answer me and say: > > Either: Yes, if I had it to do over, I would add another foot. > > Or: I built mine according to plans and would not change a thing. > > I apologize if I am new and this may be a dumb question, but it is > important to me. I want to build the best little airplane in the > world and the safest. > > Thanks, > > Dean Allen > P.O. Box 4173 > Greenville, SC 29608 > > (864) 232-3825 > > If anyone wants to reply offline: dean@deanallen.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:20:11 +0200 To: krnet From: dene collett Subject: charging systems Message-id: <002b01bff8d9$fdfd70a0$48a6ef9b@denec> Hi gang There has been some talk about different charging systerms lately and it got me wondering if anyone has tried a system like the one I am thinking of at the moment. If you place a flange of say 1/4" thick behind the prop that is of a slightly larger diameter than the hub flange. In this hub you place a few permanent magnets in holes machined at a radius just bigger than the prop flange`s. A bracket of some sort can be fastened to the motor case that will hold a number of pick up coils arranged to just clear the flange holding the magnets. I would imagine that the more coils there are the more power you could draw from the system. This could be fed into some sort of regulator to control the voltage. It would do away with those heavy auto alternators and the "v" belts. Any thoughts on the subject??? Build well, fly safely. Dene Collett South Africa denec@netactive.co.za ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************