From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 8 Sep 2000 22:37:41 -0000 Issue 87 Date: Friday, September 08, 2000 2:38 PM krnet Digest 8 Sep 2000 22:37:41 -0000 Issue 87 Topics (messages 1947 through 1964): Aileron Gap Seals/RAF 48 testing 1947 by: jscott.pilot.juno.com the wing flies! 1948 by: Vincent Chrisovergis Re: Test 1949 by: Lon V Boothby Re: [KR> the wing flies!] 1950 by: IMA FLYER builders' log 1951 by: Oscar Zuniga 1963 by: Oscar Zuniga lexan canopy 1952 by: David McKelvey 1953 by: Dr. No 1960 by: Dr. No 1961 by: Frank Ross horizontal tail hinges 1954 by: Vincent Chrisovergis 1955 by: Mark Langford 1956 by: Mark Jones 1959 by: Ron Eason Re: gathering 1957 by: terry 1962 by: AviationMech.aol.com cowling mold 1958 by: Mark Langford Its painted 1964 by: WA7YXF.aol.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:33:00 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Aileron Gap Seals/RAF 48 testing Message-ID: <20000906.183301.-229607.0.jscott.pilot@juno.com> KR Pilots and Testers. Over the course of the summer, with some supplies from Mark Langford and Oscar Zuniga, we tested my KR-2S with the “per plans” installation of the RAF 48 Airfoil and Diehl Wing skins with the use of Aileron gap seals. The seals were a thin mylar film that was stuck to the bottom of the wing with 3M 444 industrial double sided tape, then the leading edge of the gap seals were taped over with electrical tape. The mylar film bridged the gap between the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the aileron on the bottom of the wing. The first order of business was to fly some performance numbers with the airplane. I started every session with the plane grossing 1075# and the temperature at 65 deg F at a pressure altitude of 6500 feet ASL. I did my time to climb testing by establishing a climb at a given airspeed at 6200 feet, then maintaining that climb speed through 6500 feet and timing it up through 7500feet. I tested at the speeds around my best rate, so I could establish times for climbing at 85, 90, 95, and 100 mph IAS. The results of the time to climb testing are posted below. The first row was my time to climb speeds with the plane in the same configuration it has flown in since the first flight 3 years ago and was intended to be a baseline to use for comparison. It didn’t necessarily work out that way. The second set of numbers were flown after the aileron gap seals were installed. While installing the gap seals, I noted that the Starboard Aileron was mounted with a misalignment of roughly 1/8 – 3/16 of an inch with the aileron mounted low in relationship to the wing. I remember this problem from construction, but the plane had flown so well that I had forgotten about it over time. My expectation was that this would probably cause a left roll in the plane. As expected, the plane wanted to roll left. If I released the stick, the roll was slow, but was definitely there. The surprising thing was how much pressure it took on the stick to maintain level flight. The ailerons were now very heavy which made the controls somewhat unharmonious with the light elevator. Flying the plane cross country was fatiguing while fighting the slight roll. The ailerons were so heavy, that it was difficult to feel the elevator in a turn while horsing on the ailerons and for the first time since my second flight in this plane, I overshot a landing while trying to feel out the plane on approach. I suspect that the lower performance numbers after installing the gap seals was due to the amount of right aileron I was holding. It was much like flying with both ailerons hanging down like flaps. The obvious solution was to order a new piano hinge and remount the aileron properly. After remounting the starboard aileron, I flew another set of test numbers (row #3) with the aileron gap seals still installed. Now the climb performance is picking up. The only problem is that the plane now has a very, very slight right rolling tendency and the ailerons still seem to be very heavy. Time for another cross country breakfast trip. Again, in smooth air the plane was somewhat fatiguing to fly as it took constant pressure on the stick even though the rolling tendency was very slight. Just a little bit of light chop on the way home rolled the plane around enough that it was comfortable to fly. However, the ailerons still seemed extremely heavy and the controls unharmonious. I also strongly suspected that the gain in climb performance was probably due to me remounting the aileron that was hanging down in the wind more than the addition of the aileron gap seals. The only way to find out for sure was to remove the seals. The final row of numbers is after I had removed the aileron gap seals. I can’t account for the fact that the climb performance made another slight improvement. However, the major change was that now the ailerons are back to a light touch and the plane is very comfortable to fly cross country again. The elevator and ailerons also feel to be a little closer in harmony to each other which makes for an easier plane to fly. Time to climb pressure altitude of 6500’ to 7500’. 65 deg F. 1075# gross weight. Configuration IAS 85 90 95 100 As built 2:34 2:20 2:50 2:45 Gap seals installed 2:34 2:33 2:43 3:00 Starboard aileron remounted 2:10 2:20 2:22 2:35 Gap seals removed 2:05 2:08 2:16 2:25 Next testing, Elevator gap seals…… Jeff Scott - Los Alamos, NM mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com See N1213w construction and first flight at http://www.thuntek.net/~jeb/krjeff.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 22:30:21 -0300 To: krnet From: vjchrisovergis@ns.sympatico.ca (Vincent Chrisovergis) Subject: the wing flies! Message-ID: <39B6EFAC.EE0370EF@ns.sympatico.ca> Why can't the info be given or viewed in the www.newteck.com/nlf when i try to open it can't be found. thanks vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 22:13:41 -0700 To: sapiddomannaro@yahoo.it From: Lon V Boothby Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Test Message-ID: <20000906.221342.-146655.0.LBoothby@juno.com> Yes, I have been getting my messages real speratically too. I went two days with no messages, then all of them came today. Lon On Wed, 6 Sep 2000 08:38:40 +0200 (CEST) =?iso-8859-1?q?Paolo=20Cavazzuti?= writes: > ...Is there anybody out there?! > (It's 2 days that I don't receive messages from KRnet...) > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su > http://mail.yahoo.it > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Sep 00 06:29:12 CDT To: vjchrisovergis@ns.sympatico.ca, krnet From: IMA FLYER Subject: Re: [KR> the wing flies!] Message-ID: <20000907112912.9511.qmail@www0c.netaddress.usa.net> Works fine for me. Lots of good info also. People with spotty email, webs= ites that don't load,....Hmmmmm? Maybe it's RF interference? Who knows. = ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home= =2Enetscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:39:35 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: builders' log Message-ID: Hello, netters- I've heard many builders discuss their final inspection by the FAA prior to sign-off of their project, and almost all of them have said that the inspector didn't even look at their logs. Guys have spent lots of time assembling more of a "scrapbook" than a log, with pictures and narrative, and not had the inspector so much as thumb through it. Mostly they look only enough to determine that the project was amateur-built and that's about it. So... my log consists of a Word doc (narrative) with sequential entries listing date, work performed, time spent, and then has monthly summaries of time expended (for my own gauge of progress) against projected total time. I've had to change that several times, since my project is just like most everybody else's- it just keeps going and going and going as I add to it. My narrative is therefore something like Mark Langford's spreadsheet format, but in words and with summaries. My completed log will therefore consist of a printout of that document (construction narrative/diary), plus a printout of the applicable pages of my website, which documents my progress. Right now it all fits on a zip disk (yes, I have backups). I guess the bottom line is: the log is like a homebuilt... it's whatever you want it to be. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:35:54 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: builders' log Message-ID: Netters; I guess I wasn't clear enough on my post about logs; I got several emails suggesting that I record supplemental data and in-progress items. What I neglected to mention in my first post was that, yes, I also have volumes and reams of supplemental data besides my formal "log". I have a 3-ring binder of my own calcs, sketches, and mark-ups (I get ideas in the middle of the night, or doodle during meetings at work, or whatever); I have many tabbed binders of emails, hints, tips, and general construction data related to the project; I have a separate file of FAA and registration information, forms, and materials related to registration of the airplane and EAA Tech Counselor reports; I have a separate file and spreadsheet for tracking building costs, receipts, lists of materials, and related stuff. It's not like I can't re-create my trains of thought or methods of calculation for anything I've done or thought about doing on my project. Anybody who might end up with my project after it falls out of the sky because I used rattle cans of spray paint on it (a little Friday joke there, guys; back off- Mark!)- will get any and all info needed to backtrack or follow my logic on modifications or details of assemblies, as well as dead-end ideas that I didn't implement or changed before I implemented them. I can show any of this stuff to the FAA inspector and explain it in full, if asked to do so, in an orderly fashion. I keep everything; just ask my wife, or look in my garage ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 18:44:28 -0500 To: "w.g. kirkland" From: David McKelvey CC: "Dr. No" , krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: lexan canopy Message-ID: <39B8285C.D408256F@gte.net> "w.g. kirkland" wrote: > Dr. No; Just a comment on no. 5. Lexan is virtually unbreakable. It might > present a problem getting out in the event of an accident. > W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND > kirkland@vianet.on.ca > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org on that note, would a lexan canopy shatter when hit with an automatic center punch? -- Dave McKelvey DAVMCK@GTE.NET Grapevine TX 817-329-0425 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:58:09 -0500 To: davmck@gte.net, KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dr. No" Subject: Re: KR> lexan canopy Message-ID: <39B8399C.E1B7408@pol.net> As noted, Lexan (polycarbonate) is virtually impossible to shatter. That's why it is used as "bulletproof glass." When scored, you can bend a 3-foot piece almost double before it breaks (without scoring it will not break). It does scratch (lens for glasses made with polycarbonate have special coatings), but no more than acrylic sheets I have worked with. I currently have Lexan windows in my car (actually in my garage), mainly for the weight factor instead of the bulletproofness--it's a VW Thing and the windows lift out, not roll down. For emergency egress, the idea is have either a different break point or leave the Lexan loosely-enough fixed so it can be pushed out, like a car window. David McKelvey wrote: > "w.g. kirkland" wrote: > > > Dr. No; Just a comment on no. 5. Lexan is virtually unbreakable. It might > > present a problem getting out in the event of an accident. > > W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND > > kirkland@vianet.on.ca > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > on that note, would a lexan canopy shatter when hit with an automatic center > punch? > -- > Dave McKelvey DAVMCK@GTE.NET > Grapevine TX > 817-329-0425 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 21:51:49 -0500 To: virgnvs@juno.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dr. No" Subject: Re: KR> lexan canopy Message-ID: <39B8543A.95B92F8C@pol.net> I like that idea. What's the aerodynamic penalty? virgnvs@juno.com wrote: > How about a flat wrapped Lexan windshield with an > acrylic gull wing doors. Bird strike protection and egress as > well. Virg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:19:42 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> lexan canopy Message-ID: <20000908051942.15410.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com> > > on that note, would a lexan canopy shatter when hit > with an automatic center punch? > -- > Dave McKelvey DAVMCK@GTE.NET > Grapevine TX > 817-329-0425 Probably not. Laminated glass windows in cars are made to shatter into pebble-like pieces for safety purposes, but they're a lot different than Lexan, plexiglass, etc. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 21:52:46 -0300 To: krnet From: vjchrisovergis@ns.sympatico.ca (Vincent Chrisovergis) Subject: horizontal tail hinges Message-ID: <39B8385E.70197641@ns.sympatico.ca> I'm building a kr2s and I'm in the early stages beginning the horizontal tail. I have a couple of questions.1 is the hinges for the tail are they bought or are they made . and if made does anyone suggest a diagram, or who sells them.2nd since I'm using the AS5046 airfoil do I need to change the airfoil from the horizontal tail from the stock rand plans? thanks vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 20:20:32 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> horizontal tail hinges Message-ID: <000b01c01932$fc8ecc90$a5f780ce@300emachine> >1 is the hinges for the tail are they > bought or are they made . and if made does anyone suggest a diagram, or > who sells them.2nd since I'm using the AS5046 airfoil do I need to > change the airfoil from the horizontal tail from the stock rand plans? You can either buy the hinges from RR or you can build them yourself from Aluminum channel bought from Wicks or elsewhere. The drawings are in the KR2 manual. Personally, I would take advantage of Dr. Dean's rod bearing method (detailed at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/hinges.htm ) and have ultra smooth operation with zero maintenance for the life of the plane. If I need to convince you more, come to the Gathering and rattle all the rudders and elevators sitting on the flight line. You do not need to change the horizontal tail airfoil from stock. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 20:33:28 -0500 To: vjchrisovergis@ns.sympatico.ca From: Mark Jones CC: krnet Subject: Re: KR> horizontal tail hinges Message-ID: <39B841E7.75985123@execpc.com> Hi Vincent, Here is my .02 cents worth: Vincent Chrisovergis wrote: > I'm building a kr2s and I'm in the early stages beginning the horizontal > tail. I have a couple of questions.1 is the hinges for the tail are they > bought or are they made . and if made does anyone suggest a diagram, or > who sells them Well first of all, I would not use the Rand hinge design. It is primitive to say the least. Rod end bearing hinges designed by Dr. Collette are the best thing I have seen come along for the KR tail hinges so far. Go to the following link and you will see just what I mean. Best of all, you can get everything needed to make them from Wicks. http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/hinges.htm > .2nd since I'm using the AS5046 airfoil do I need to > change the airfoil from the horizontal tail from the stock rand plans? This is not a necessity, BUT why not install the true airfoil design for the horizontal and vertical stabilizers which are provided with the AS5046 drawings. You will have a larger horizontal surface than the stock Rand design which will give you more stability. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 21:30:15 -0500 To: "Mark Langford" , "krnet" From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> horizontal tail hinges Message-ID: <000e01c0193c$bba5a0a0$137239ce@dana-coe> I used press in sealed ball bearing inserts with keepers in hinges I made from channel, works good for me. Do you have a drill press? KRron -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford To: krnet Date: Thursday, September 07, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: Re: KR> horizontal tail hinges >>1 is the hinges for the tail are they >> bought or are they made . and if made does anyone suggest a diagram, or >> who sells them.2nd since I'm using the AS5046 airfoil do I need to >> change the airfoil from the horizontal tail from the stock rand plans? > >You can either buy the hinges from RR or you can build them yourself from >Aluminum channel bought from Wicks or elsewhere. The drawings are in the >KR2 manual. Personally, I would take advantage of Dr. Dean's rod bearing >method (detailed at http://www.execpc.com/~drdean/hinges.htm ) and have >ultra smooth operation with zero maintenance for the life of the plane. If >I need to convince you more, come to the Gathering and rattle all the >rudders and elevators sitting on the flight line. You do not need to change >the horizontal tail airfoil from stock. > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 20:47:25 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "terry" Subject: Re: KR> gathering Message-Id: <200009080148.e881mDf07208@sard.southwind.net> Would like to join anyone who is flying to the gathering thursday or friday. I will be flying my Kr2 from Marion Kansas. I could join up with anyone flying through Kansas or Missouri. TERRY CHIZEK CHITL@SOUTHWIND,NET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:31:01 EDT To: chitl@southwind.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> gathering Message-ID: In a message dated 9/7/00 9:45:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chitl@southwind.net writes: << who is flying to the gathering thursday or friday. >> I plan to fly from Michigan on friday and would also like to know who is flying from where. If everyone commented prehaps others could make simular plans Orma N110LR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 20:45:27 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: cowling mold Message-ID: <001901c01936$77641530$a5f780ce@300emachine> CowlHeads, I played hookie from work Tuesday afternoon and visited Troy in Columbia. He and Jeff Duval were planning to pull a mold off of Troy's cowling and make themselves two lighter ones. Jeff has a similar engine intallation to Troy's C-85, and since Troy's already got the bulges and blisters in the right places, it was a no-brainer. After all of the reworking over the years for several different engine configurations (not to mention crash damage), Troy's cowling had blossomed to 17 pounds! Hence, the carbon fiber scheme was born. What is truly amazing is the lack of effort they really put into this. They were both in a big hurry because of Troy's limited time off from flight duties, and the close proximity of the Gathering. They lightly sanded Troy's cowling, waxed it several times, shot on a quick coat of PVA, and laid up a layer of mat glass, 2 or 3 layers of KR glass cloth (with polyester resin), and let it cure. A few hours later the molds popped right off the parts. More wax and mold release and the carbon fiber (3 layers for the top half, two for the bottom) wetted out with epoxy were laid up on the mold, and the next day, a cowling was born! The new cowlings weigh 3 pounds each and look fantastic! And they really made it look easy. It's probably safe to say that not only might there soon be a source for lightweight C-85/0-200 cowlings, but quite possibly AS5046 wing skins and other parts too. I may very well clone my Corvair cowling when I finish it. There's no sense in us all reinventing the wheel everytime we build one of these things. I've already got dibs on Troy's old cowling, so don't ask. Stay tuned... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:36:45 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: WA7YXF@aol.com Subject: Its painted Message-ID: <8.a0188ea.26eac3fd@aol.com> Well, guys---summer temperatures are fading but I got her painted. Its finished firewall back........ This winter I will mount my 0-235. I can do the cowling under heat lamps...latest picture on marks site soon.. Lynn Hyder WA7YXF N37LH Redmond, Oregon ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************