From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 27 Oct 2000 06:30:32 -0000 Issue 115 Date: Thursday, October 26, 2000 10:30 PM krnet Digest 27 Oct 2000 06:30:32 -0000 Issue 115 Topics (messages 2724 through 2753): building table 2724 by: Oscar Zuniga KR wood 2725 by: Ken Burch 2727 by: Robert Stone 2732 by: FDickinson Re: bolt torque specs 2726 by: Robert Stone Fiberglass cloth questions 2728 by: Jim Payne 2729 by: larry flesner 2730 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 2731 by: larry flesner 2734 by: B&B Muse Insurance 2733 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout Re: KR Wood and Bolt Torques 2735 by: Peter Johnson Re: Houston, we have a problem... 2736 by: Michael Taglieri Re: Returned mail 2737 by: virgnvs.juno.com Re: RAND ROBINSON ADDRESS CORRECTION 2738 by: virgnvs.juno.com N number ? 2739 by: Phil Visconti 2740 by: Edwin Blocher 2741 by: flykr2s.execpc.com 2742 by: Jerry Mahurin 2745 by: Edwin Blocher 2750 by: Phil Visconti 2752 by: Tlongcrier.aol.com Re: Now a word from Mom 2743 by: Robert Stone reaming 2744 by: shannon spurgeon table 2746 by: shannon spurgeon Re: URL address change for my web site 2747 by: Ron Eason tail block 2748 by: Timothy Brown Re: Re:just thinking /fuel tanks 2749 by: ROBERT COOPER N Number Delete - Register 2751 by: Mark Jones KR2-S Thrust line 2753 by: Florin L Pintea Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:43:47 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: building table Message-ID: One other thing to consider in the leveling of your table, as somebody else mentioned, is to check it periodically. If you're like most and you end up spending several years building, things can most definitely shift. Here in our area, we also have quite expansive clay and things can shift and heave just going from summer to winter. I didn't have that problem in dry/dusty Texas, but up here in Oregon my driveway is all cracked, doors drag and stick some times of the year, and nothing is really ever square... all due to shifts in the soil and foundations. I notice that the gap between door and jamb on some doors in our house varies 1/8" over the 3' width of the opening. Think of what that might mean over a 16' building table... Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:57:58 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ken Burch Subject: KR wood Message-ID: <39F71116.C3F3C62A@bellsouth.net> Is there a cheaper wood that I can purchase locally for a KR1? Ken Burch ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:03:18 -0500 To: "Ken Burch" , From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> KR wood Message-ID: <004201c03ea5$79a29d00$0101a8c0@pavilion> Ken Burch: Stitka Spruce is recommended. Other woods are to soft or to heavy. Spruce also has the quality of bending a long way before it breaks. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Burch" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 11:57 AM Subject: KR> KR wood > Is there a cheaper wood that I can purchase locally for a KR1? > Ken Burch > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:24:48 -0400 To: Ken Burch From: FDickinson CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR wood Message-ID: <39F779D0.69729724@capital.net> Ken: Certainly there are cheaper woods available from local sources - however, Sitka Spruce is generally thought of as the standard for quality in terms of density, strength, weight and workability. Douglas Fir, for example, while heavier and stronger is sometimes used as a substitute, however in choosing any specie of lumber, you will do well to employ the expertise of someone knowledgeable in selecting quality aircraft grade lumber that satisfies specific criteria for your project. After all, it's your butt in the seat - protect it! Ken Burch wrote: > Is there a cheaper wood that I can purchase locally for a KR1? > Ken Burch > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:59:57 -0500 To: "Bob Smith" , From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> bolt torque specs Message-ID: <003c01c03ea5$02455cc0$0101a8c0@pavilion> Bob Smith: I am sure someone on the net will be able to help you. If not a torque chart for aircraft hardware is available from Aircraft Spruce. Send for a catalog, you can do this on the net and they are free. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 10:21 AM Subject: KR> bolt torque specs Could someone tell me the proper torque specs for common KR AN bolt sizes? A web reference would be handy if anyone has one. Thanks Bob Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:54:15 -0400 To: From: "Jim Payne" Subject: Fiberglass cloth questions Message-ID: I've been doing some research on fiberglass cloth and I've got a few KR related questions. netters, First, I've heard conflicting information on the net on the strength of dynel vs. glass. Most indicate glass is much stronger than Dynel (I'm comparing the recommended glass for the KR 5.8 oz bi-directional cloth) but if it is, then why are some KR builders using 2 layers of glass cloth on their airplanes? I have no interest in using Dynel but I curious on the comparison and how many layers of cloth are really necessary. I know that items such as the turtle deck and forward deck items aren't really structural to the airframe, so I'm really talking flying surfaces here, wings, stab. Also, after researching other aircraft that are 100% E-glass airframes they are using much heavier i.e. stronger (more expensive) glass on their airplanes with typically 1 layer of Uni-directional cloth approx 7-13oz and a second layer of BID cloth 9+oz or even biaxial (17oz) or triaxial (22oz) and they are sandwich core with glass on both sides of the foam where the KR is only glassed on one side. I may be off on this but I would assume the strength properties of the spars in the flying surfaces in both cases would contribute the same amount of load carrying capabilities comparatively so the fact that the KR has an underlying support structure of wood instead of glass spars wouldn't make that much of a difference. Why do other airplanes seem to have so much more glass in the flying surfaces? Does the wood spar structure on the KR carry that much of the load that 1 layer of glass on a single side of foam is adequate? Obviously it's adequate because may have been flying for a long time, and I'm not trying to say the KR design isn't strong, it just seems comparatively the others are really overbuilt.? Anyone care to commment? What glass are you using on your Wings/Stab? Jim Payne jim@manufacturingconcepts.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:00:54 -0500 To: , From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Fiberglass cloth questions Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001025180054.007e35b0@mail.midwest.net> > >Anyone care to commment? What glass are you using on your Wings/Stab? > >Jim Payne >==================================================================== Jim, Unless you are wanting to do some redesign or educate yourself on the properties and strength of the different glass, I wouldn't waste a lot of time on the research. The KR, when built to plans and with the specified materials, are plenty strong. Twenty five years of KR's flying is proof enough for me. I have yet to hear of a structoral failure. You are right to guess that the wood structor carries most of the loads. There are many KR's flying heavier than the design specifies and still no problems. I suspect that with all of the different woods and types of glass used to try and save cost,etc., that most KR airframes come out within 20 pounds or so and maybe a couple hundred dollars of each other. Most of the extra weight and cost comes from what you hang on the airframe. Don't make the process more difficult than it needs to be. Time is your most valuable asset. Spend it building !! Just my humble opinion... Happy flying Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:30:29 -0400 To: "KRNET" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: Fiberglass cloth questions Message-ID: I understand Jim Payne's dilema. There have been many fiberglass questions, and I stilll don't understand the issues. The plans seem somewhat ambiguous about the layers specifications, but what I nderstand is one latey of 5.8 OZ, laid diagonally, with two layers forward of the front spar. Fiberglass substituted for dynel, which is very rubbery. If dynel was good enough for Ken R, then fiberglass should be more than adequate for Ron F, if Ron F can lose some weight. Please correct my discrepancies. Ron Freiberger...KR2+/1S in Fort Myers, FL mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:33:08 -0500 To: ,"KRNET" From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Fiberglass cloth questions Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001025193308.008322a0@mail.midwest.net> The plans seem somewhat ambiguous >about the layers specifications, but what I nderstand is one latey of 5.8 >OZ, laid diagonally, with two layers forward of the front spar. >Please correct my discrepancies. >Ron Freiberger...KR2+/1S in Fort Myers, FL -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron, It has been several years since I built my fuselage and wings but I seem to recall the plans being rather specific about the layers. I recall it saying something like "two layers, on the diagonal, from the forward spar and around the lead edge so many inches, giving you four layer on lead edge when completed and one layer from the spar to the trail edge". Don't forget to overlap the spar when going to lead edge or trail edge. I sandwiched my layers going fore and aft over the spar. The glass to spar bond is VERY important. I kept going back and brushing on more resin on the glass to spar point until it started to set up to insure a good bond. Read the manual as many times as it takes to get a good mental picture of the component and process you are working on. If still not clear, ASK THE NET. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:54:46 -0500 To: jim@manufacturingconcepts.com From: B&B Muse CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Fiberglass cloth questions Message-ID: <39F78EE5.640C8E56@ev1.net> --------------ADE80D163D6309F41AB526FA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Payne wrote: > I've been doing some research on fiberglass cloth and I've got a few KR > related questions. > > netters, > > First, I've heard conflicting information on the net on the strength of > dynel vs. glass. Most indicate glass is much stronger than Dynel (I'm > comparing the recommended glass for the KR 5.8 oz bi-directional cloth) but > if it is, then why are some KR builders using 2 layers of glass cloth on > their airplanes? I have no interest in using Dynel but I curious on the > comparison and how many layers of cloth are really necessary. I know that > items such as the turtle deck and forward deck items aren't really > structural to the airframe, so I'm really talking flying surfaces here, > wings, stab. > To start with, Dynel cloth is no longer available. Fiberglass is the choice. > Also, after researching other aircraft that are 100% E-glass airframes they > are using much heavier i.e. stronger (more expensive) glass on their > airplanes with typically 1 layer of Uni-directional cloth approx 7-13oz and > a second layer of BID cloth 9+oz or even biaxial (17oz) or triaxial (22oz) > and they are sandwich core with glass on both sides of the foam where the KR > is only glassed on one side. I may be off on this but I would assume the > strength properties of the spars in the flying surfaces in both cases would > contribute the same amount of load carrying capabilities comparatively so > the fact that the KR has an underlying support structure of wood instead of > glass spars wouldn't make that much of a difference. > The primary structural strength of the the KR flying surfaces is the the spars. The other aircraft that you may be looking to compare may not have the advantage of a wood spar for strength and must use more fiberglass for support and strength. > > Why do other airplanes seem to have so much more glass in the flying > surfaces? Does the wood spar structure on the KR carry that much of the load > that 1 layer of glass on a single side of foam is adequate? Obviously it's > adequate because may have been flying for a long time, and I'm not trying to > say the KR design isn't strong, it just seems comparatively the others are > really overbuilt.? > Hopefully they are all overbuilt. I know the KR is. > > Anyone care to commment? What glass are you using on your Wings/Stab? > I used Diehl wing skins (285hrs/6 years and never a problem). My Dad used Dynel (800+hrs/16 years), but he did have some separation between the foam and the Dynel on the the bottom of the wing which he replaced 14 years ago and no problems since. My suggestion...just build the the KR to the plans for the fastest build time. By the way, almost no one does. When you go out on your own and make modifications, you will always add months to the building time. I guarantee it. This is experience speaking. > > Jim Payne > jim@manufacturingconcepts.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org Good luck! Bobby Muse --------------ADE80D163D6309F41AB526FA-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:50:16 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Insurance Message-ID: <20001025.215017.-182819.0.klw1953@juno.com> Thanks for your input Ross. Do you or any one else know of a carrier I could contact for prices. (ie hull etc)----------------------------Kenny ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:11:31 -0700 To: "Ken Burch" , From: "Peter Johnson" Subject: Re: KR> KR Wood and Bolt Torques Message-ID: <001a01c03f02$fc2d8520$58a5e2d1@peter> Ken, AC43.13-1B/2A discussed various wood useable as a substitute for sitka. Below is a brief summary of what it says: Douglas Fir - exceeds strength of sitka. May be used as a direct substitute for sitka. Difficult to work, glues well. Noble Fir - slightly exceeds sitka except for 8% decrease in shear. Glues well. Western Hemlock - slightly exceeds sitka. Glues well. Northern White Pine - properties between 85% and 96% of sitka. Works and glues well. Northern White Cedar - exceeds sitka. Works well but glueing may be difficult. Yellow Poplar - slightly less than sitka except in compression and shear. Works and glues well. Take a look at the EAA series on wood to understand what makes 'aircraft quality wood'. Bolt torques for the KR, as shown on the plans, is as follows: AN3 (3/16") - 20 to 25 inch-lbs AN4 - 50 to 70 inch-lbs AN5 - 100 to 140 inch-lbs AN6 (3/8") - 160 to 190 inch-lbs Hope this helps. If you want a copy of the AC43.13 page I will try scanning it for you. mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca From: "Ken Burch" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 9:57 AM Subject: KR> KR wood > Is there a cheaper wood that I can purchase locally for a KR1? > Ken Burch > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 02:18:53 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Michael Taglieri Subject: Re: Houston, we have a problem... Message-ID: <20001026.022248.11118.12.MikeT_NYC@juno.com> >We've lost another KRNet administrator. Jeff Scott finally went all the way >and quit altogether, after finding some temporary refuge in the digest. >Below is what he had to say: > >"I have much to contribute, but am not willing to defend myself or argue >with some knothead over every comment. I don't have the energy for that. >The amount of misinformation promulgated on the KRnet is appalling. I >don't want to be a part of that. As the KRNet administrator, I should have >stepped on a lot more necks rather than allow it to get so far out of hand >with the misinformation,bickering and personal attacks." > >I don't blame him a bit, and have to confess I'm about fed up myself, and >feel exactly the same way. KRNet gets this way occasionally. People out >there beating their chests, blowing hard, and trying to show the world how >much they know (whether or not they know a hammer from a screwdriver, or an >aileron from a flap). Of course the major offenders think I'm talking >about somebody else here. I hope this doesn't mean you knowledgeable guys are going to quit the list completely. I'm on the Digest now and rarely contribute, but I do save the [increasingly rare] good posts and the Digest is a quick way to skim through the rubbish to find them. The same misinformation seems to come up over and over, so if knowledgeable people respond briefly with a cite to the archives, listmembers with sense will be able to figure out who's right even if the blowhards stick to their opinions. Mike Taglieri - miket_nyc@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:13:58 -0400 To: flykr2s@execpc.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Returned mail Message-ID: <20001026.115356.-202017.1.virgnvs@juno.com> PMB 724 7071 Warner Ave F Huntington Beach, Ca 92647 Virg On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:29:01 -0500 (CDT) flykr2s@execpc.com writes: > At the KR Gathering last month, Jeanette announced that she had closed > the office they were in and is now operating the business from her > home. I do not have the new address or phone number. Maybe someone > who > reads this can advise us as to what it is. > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com > http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:09:52 -0400 To: tracy@localaccess.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: kae_ar@yahoo.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> RAND ROBINSON ADDRESS CORRECTION Message-ID: <20001026.115356.-202017.0.virgnvs@juno.com> True,Jeannette has been getting about half of the mail. They return half to the sender. Talked to her this AM[11:00 Eastern time]. Fax is a good deal,714-890-1658. Cheaper than mail,Virg On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:55:39 -0700 Tracy & Carol O'Brien writes: > > > >Jim, > >You have the right address. I have to correct my > >earlier statement. I forgot the PMB (Postal Mailbox) > >when I gave the address earlier. > >I dont think it matters which way you put it, but Mrs > >Rand did tell me it was > >Rand Robinson Engineering, Inc, > >PMB 724 > >7071 Warner Ave #F > >Huntington Beach, CA 92647 > > Netters, > > The PMB stands for private mail box and the Post office is quite > unhelpful > if you don't get one of these addresses correct. > > Tracy O'Brien > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:00:32 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Phil Visconti Subject: N number ? Message-ID: <39F8551F.138CE140@gis.net> --------------2B27DBB13412BBCBB5605578 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone know procedure to delete N-number ? Original builder got N-number but never finished KR. Had done appro. 40 % ??? Phil --------------2B27DBB13412BBCBB5605578-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:23:43 -0500 To: "Phil Visconti" , From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> N number ? Message-ID: <001b01c03f69$1d6ef1e0$d4e279a5@computer> An N number will omly be issued to a completed, FAA certified (Experimental in our case) airplane. N numbers can be reserved for a cost of $10.00 per year. Check www.landings.com databases for N Numbers and see if it is assigned or reserved and to whom. Also your local FAA FSDO can answer any questions you have. In fact they have a complete package of Experimental paperwork that they will mail to you. All you have to do is call them. ED Ed Blocher e-mail kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Visconti To: Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 11:00 AM Subject: KR> N number ? > Anyone know procedure to delete N-number ? Original builder got N-number > but never finished KR. Had done appro. 40 % ??? > > Phil > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:31:08 -0500 (CDT) To: "Edwin Blocher" From: flykr2s@execpc.com Cc: "Phil Visconti" , Subject: Re: KR> N number ? Message-Id: <200010261731.e9QHV8Q48060@pop2.nwbl.wi.voyager.net> Wrong! Not slamming here but, I have a fully registered KR-2S which is only 50% complete. Yes if you do want to pay a yearly fee they will reserve the number or you can permanantly register the project. The only draw back on permanantly registered projects is the State you live in will contact you and expect you to pay taxes on all purchases you have made towards the plane. The State of Wisconsin wasted no time in contacting me once the N number hit the database. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > An N number will omly be issued to a completed, FAA certified (Experimental > in our case) airplane. N numbers can be reserved for a cost of $10.00 per > year. Check www.landings.com databases for N Numbers and see if it is > assigned or reserved and to whom. Also your local FAA FSDO can answer any > questions you have. In fact they have a complete package of Experimental > paperwork that they will mail to you. All you have to do is call them. > ED > Ed Blocher > e-mail kr-n899eb@mindspring.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Phil Visconti > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 11:00 AM > Subject: KR> N number ? > > > > Anyone know procedure to delete N-number ? Original builder got N- number > > but never finished KR. Had done appro. 40 % ??? > > > > Phil > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:19:23 GMT To: flykr2s@execpc.com, kr-n899eb@mindspring.com From: "Jerry Mahurin" Cc: vicsani@gis.net, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> N number ? Message-ID: When I was building a Quickie in Texas in the early '80s, I applied for a N number at about the 50% stage. I got the registration in about a month, and tax bill the following month....!!! I think the tax bill was from the County though...?? Jerry Lugoff, SC >From: flykr2s@execpc.com >To: "Edwin Blocher" >CC: "Phil Visconti" , >Subject: Re: KR> N number ? >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:31:08 -0500 (CDT) > >Wrong! Not slamming here but, I have a fully registered KR-2S which is >only 50% complete. Yes if you do want to pay a yearly fee they will >reserve the number or you can permanantly register the project. The >only draw back on permanantly registered projects is the State you >live in will contact you and expect you to pay taxes on all purchases >you have made towards the plane. The State of Wisconsin wasted no time >in contacting me once the N number hit the database. >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Wales, WI >mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com >http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > > > > An N number will omly be issued to a completed, FAA certified >(Experimental > > in our case) airplane. N numbers can be reserved for a cost of >$10.00 per > > year. Check www.landings.com databases for N Numbers and see if it >is > > assigned or reserved and to whom. Also your local FAA FSDO can >answer any > > questions you have. In fact they have a complete package of >Experimental > > paperwork that they will mail to you. All you have to do is call >them. > > ED > > Ed Blocher > > e-mail kr-n899eb@mindspring.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Phil Visconti > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 11:00 AM > > Subject: KR> N number ? > > > > > > > Anyone know procedure to delete N-number ? Original builder got N- >number > > > but never finished KR. Had done appro. 40 % ??? > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:08:03 -0500 To: From: "Edwin Blocher" Cc: "Phil Visconti" , Subject: Re: KR> N number ? Message-ID: <003301c03fa1$998b4660$7ce579a5@computer> I'll check with the FSDO in the morning before I surrrender. Checking on the registration of the number was what I was trying to help with. I may also get off the KR Net soon. If you want to get on a really good net where everyone gets flamed, try the Corvaircraft Net. ED Ed Blocher e-mail kr-n899eb@mindspring.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Edwin Blocher Cc: Phil Visconti ; Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 12:31 PM Subject: Re: KR> N number ? > Wrong! Not slamming here but, I have a fully registered KR-2S which is > only 50% complete. Yes if you do want to pay a yearly fee they will > reserve the number or you can permanantly register the project. The > only draw back on permanantly registered projects is the State you > live in will contact you and expect you to pay taxes on all purchases > you have made towards the plane. The State of Wisconsin wasted no time > in contacting me once the N number hit the database. > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com > http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage > > > > An N number will omly be issued to a completed, FAA certified > (Experimental > > in our case) airplane. N numbers can be reserved for a cost of > $10.00 per > > year. Check www.landings.com databases for N Numbers and see if it > is > > assigned or reserved and to whom. Also your local FAA FSDO can > answer any > > questions you have. In fact they have a complete package of > Experimental > > paperwork that they will mail to you. All you have to do is call > them. > > ED > > Ed Blocher > > e-mail kr-n899eb@mindspring.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Phil Visconti > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 11:00 AM > > Subject: KR> N number ? > > > > > > > Anyone know procedure to delete N-number ? Original builder got N- > number > > > but never finished KR. Had done appro. 40 % ??? > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:15:11 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Phil Visconti Subject: N NUMBER ? Message-ID: <39F9014F.9009D039@gis.net> Guys & Gals, Thanks for interest about N numbers. However, the question is, "How to get N number deleted from registry" ? Anyone know the answer ? Is there a FAA Reg that covers that area or a form to fill out ? Thank you. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:47:43 EDT To: vicsani@gis.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Tlongcrier@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> N NUMBER ? Message-ID: <9f.c404ede.272a62ef@aol.com> In a message dated 10/26/00 11:13:44 PM Central Daylight Time, vicsani@gis.net writes: > > > Thanks for interest about N numbers. However, the question is, "How to > get N number deleted from registry" ? Anyone know the answer ? Is there > a FAA Reg that covers that area or a form to fill out ? > Thank you. > > Phil > Fill in the reverse side of the Certificate of Registration and mail it in to FAA as instructed. You can report that he aircraft has been scrapped, project abandoned, or some such. I don't remember exactly and I don't have one at hand at the present. Just follow the instructions. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:49:10 -0500 To: , From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Now a word from Mom Message-ID: <00ee01c03f9e$f5b2eae0$0101a8c0@pavilion> Welcome to our new Den Mother. Randy, I think that your opening remarks as our new fearless leader were very well said. This KRNet is an invaluable source of information for all who are building or thinking about building a KR aircraft. One suggestion that I read on the net by one of the members, I can't remember who but I do remember that it was right on target. That was RESPOND TO THE QUESTION, NOT THE ANSWER There are many ways to do the same job and in most cases one way will work as good as another. I will never question any method of doing anything during the building process unless I know that it is not only in total error but could be life threatening. Most people who start a kit aircraft never finish it. The ones who do are deserving of our respect because they are the few. Randy, I wish you great success with running the net Bob Stone Harker Heights, Texas ---- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 2:07 AM Subject: KR> Now a word from Mom KRNetHeads: I'll keep this short, and maybe sweet. Yep it is true. I, Randy Stein, have been hoodwinked into becoming your new Net Mom. Please know that I was number 7 or 8 (too long ago to remember) to sign onto KRNet when Mike Graves started it. We were excited when we reached 20 members on line. Remember, this was back when computers would go out if your hamster croaked… I don't expect to practice tough love, although I sure have the skill (and power) to do so. I hope everyone will have the good sense to be respectful. Please post questions, or feel free to answer the questions posted. If you see an answer that might need a little "corrective" verbiage to make it more appropriate, please do so -- again in a polite, thoughtful way. Heck, we all make mistrakes, so cut each other some slack -- or at least take three deep breaths before hitting send. Since I am tasked with playing the new sheriff in Dodge, if the circumstances call upon me to do so, I shall play the part with gusto. Or, like my Daddy used to say, "I'm gonna give you something to cry about…" With any luck at all, I can just continue my Rip van Winkle imitation and not pester anyone. I'm kind of lazy too, so you rebels may stand a chance…just don't push it. I will try to use the ruler on knuckles off line with any repeat offenders. Failing that, Plan B will be to delete offenders. Now kids, back to the sandbox and play nice… Mom BSHADR@aol.com Soviet Monica, CA --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:50:23 -0500 (CDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: shanspur@webtv.net (shannon spurgeon) Subject: reaming Message-ID: <25850-39F8B52F-1217@storefull-626.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Sorry guys, I can't help myself. Just have to pitch in. Industry standards, (from common practice at Boeing ad Cessna) are: Holes for mass-run rivets, such as skin panels; the location is marked and the holes are hand drilled to size in one step. In slightly more critical locations, they are hand drilled through precision bushings mounted in a drill plate. In major load bearing structure, such as wing attach fittings, the holes are precison located with a jig, pilot drilled, stepped out to a few thousanths inch under size, and reamed to final size, many times using automatic drills that nearly eliminate human error. This ensures that the fastener holding things together will fit precisly, will be absolutely square to the structure, and will have maximum contact area to carry the load (no corner or edge bearing cutting into the fastener). Now obviously, this is not the only way to do it. Many planes are out there flying safely for year after year, built by the sure and steady hand of people like you and me. But I have spent too many years in the Federal School of Paranoia, and have gotten AR enough to feel the need to drill the wing attachments in a press if possible, by use of a guide if a press is not practical, and to ream the holes in MY project. Part of my reason for this is that my hand just isn't all that steady, and my holes tend to wander a bit, be out of square, and look kinda egg shaped. So for everyone like me who can't drill a good hole to save our lives (and saving our lives is what we're doing), cheat every chance you get!! I am a jig builder, first at Boeing, now Cessna, and have a fair amount of experience with how the "big" boys do it. I am not saying that every hole must be located within .005 inch, or even should be. But we each must assess our skills and the tolerances we will accept in our project while feeling safe and confident with it, then build accordingly. Sermon over, please give generously as the collection plate passes. Shannon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:22:32 -0500 (CDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: shanspur@webtv.net (shannon spurgeon) Subject: table Message-ID: <25852-39F8BCB8-925@storefull-626.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I'm baaack.... Seems to be my day to spout off. The work table is your jig - any inaccuracy in it will be reflected in your plane. Now virtually none of us have access to laser interferometry equipment, or want to spend half a mil on such peripheral tools. For the cost, the water tube level is amazingly accurate, limited by the eyeball, and access to places like the middle of the table. A good, tight string-line or stretched wire allows you to be sure the entire surface is straight and level. Use the water level to set both ends of the line stretched over the table. My personal recommendation is to try to hold about a sixteenth of an inch over the entire surface. I know this sounds impossible, but to one who routinely builds to plus or minus ten thousanths inch, it seems sloppy. Set an adjustable leg every four feet and once the table is levelled, bondo all legs solidly to the floor. Compared to your plane, bondo is cheap, so be generous with it. Any time the table moves, you really should re-level, which is work and time taken away from building. What you want is a SOLID table that won't be wandering around the shop floor. In the factory we sometimes even set anchor bolts in the floor and attach the jig, but that might be going a bit far... Remember, you can build crap from a good jig or table, but you can't build anything but crap from a bad one. If you don't have cash for the collection plate, we have credit card equipment in the back. Thank you for your support Shannon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:05:22 -0500 To: From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: URL address change for my web site Message-ID: <000001c03fa9$baad0ce0$4e7239ce@dana-coe> My new address change is http://krron.freeyellow.com/ Will have update photo soon KRron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:42:08 -0700 (PDT) To: Group KR NET From: Timothy Brown Subject: tail block Message-ID: <20001027024208.24067.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> I am building a 2S tri-gear. I am thinking that I should install the "tail wheel filler block" to support the skid but should elimnate the "tail spring wedge block" as per manual to elimnate extra weight. It's not much weight but "think lite build lite" is the KR motto, so I have heard. 1) am I correct? 2) should I install both? 3) neither? Thanks. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:49:47 -0700 To: "Screwy Squirrel" , , "larry flesner" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> Re:just thinking /fuel tanks Message-ID: <003901c03fd9$ba340b80$215e163f@pavilion> Larry Your fuel tanks sound exactly like what I've been planning for my KR. Do you have any pictures. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC. ----- Original Message ----- From: larry flesner To: Screwy Squirrel ; Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 6:28 PM Subject: KR> Re:just thinking /fuel tanks > I've seen a couple of web pages of builders who > >opt to not use/use a small header tank in favor of just using the wing > >tanks(I saw one who commented that, in a crash, they'd rather not have > >gasoline splashed all over - a sentiment I can respect)... but then I > >think that if you do that, you lose a fair amount of fuel capacity. > ======================================================================= > > John, > > There is more possible volume in the standard wing then you would > care to carry fuel. I have tanks in the outer wing panels only and > if my math is correct, I'll be able to carry 25 gallon. My tanks > run from root to tip and from the rear face of the forward spar > back 10 inches. This will give me less C.G. travel than if the > tanks went from spar to spar and less of a rear C.G. problem with > full fuel. This is not a simple change so think it through from > start to finish, i.e. fuel pump(s), line routing, C.G. changes, etc. > My project is not yet flying so my system is not proven yet but if > Piper and Mooney and Beach can do it, why can't I ???? > > Larry Flesner > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:44:25 -0500 To: KR-Net From: Mark Jones Subject: N Number Delete - Register Message-ID: <39F90828.F5557FE9@execpc.com> Very Simple!!! Write a letter to the FAA Aircraft Registry stating your request along with all the information you have about the aircraft. Serial number, previous owner, N number etc and what your intentions for an N number are. The FAA will either complete your request if you supplied all the info needed or they will send you the appropriate forms needed. The address is: FAA Aircraft Registry P.O. Box 25504 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73125 Also, there is a book called "How to License a Homebuilt Aircraft" by Paul Bergen Abbott which as all the information needed with sample letters, forms etc and step by step instructions. Phil Visconti wrote: > Guys & Gals, > > Thanks for interest about N numbers. However, the question is, "How to > get N number deleted from registry" ? -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/flykr2s/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:30:57 -0600 To: "KR-Net" From: "Florin L Pintea" Subject: KR2-S Thrust line Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03FAD.2C748620 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C03FAD.2C748620" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C03FAD.2C748620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello there KR fellows, I’ve been lurking here for the past year or so, and now I’ve finally come up with a legitimate question: Would anyone be able to tell me exactly where is the thrust line located on the KR2-S? I was under the impression it is level with the upper longerons. Am I wrong? Thanks! Florin L Pintea "KR-2S Skunk Works" @ Calgary, Alberta, Canada mailto: florinpi@home.com ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C03FAD.2C748620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello there KR = fellows,

I’ve been = lurking here for the past year or so, and now I’ve finally come up with a = legitimate question:

 

Would anyone be = able to tell me exactly where is the thrust line located on the KR2-S? I was under = the impression it is level with the upper longerons. Am I = wrong?

Thanks!

 

Florin L = Pintea

"KR-2S Skunk Works" @ = Calgary, Alberta, Canada

mailto: florinpi@home.com

 

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