From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 6 Dec 2000 23:52:15 -0000 Issue 135 Date: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 3:52 PM krnet Digest 6 Dec 2000 23:52:15 -0000 Issue 135 Topics (messages 3236 through 3251): KRNet archive sites 3236 by: Mark Langford Re: Licensing Help Needed!!! 3237 by: Michael Taglieri 3243 by: Eddie6870.aol.com PROPS 3238 by: Schmidt, Curtis 3244 by: Tom Crawford 3247 by: GARYKR2.cs.com Re: questions from a Canadian 3239 by: David R. Christensen 3251 by: Ross Youngblood gear 3240 by: user KR-2 for sale. 3241 by: Mogens Mølhede Pedersen medical 3242 by: shannon spurgeon 3245 by: cartera Re: Questions from a lurking newbie 3246 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER Project Update ... 3248 by: Albert Pecoraro Re: Canopy molding 3249 by: Frank Ross Ignition System 3250 by: DClarke351.aol.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:16:10 -0600 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KRNet archive sites Message-ID: <09fd01c05e58$f42fa4f0$561cf618@600athlon> KRNetHeads, I'm not sure that everybody's aware that we have a KRNet FAQ located at http://63.69.213.180/ , although it could stand a healthy injection of attention from some volunteer authors (hint, hint). Also there are two archive sites. The first consists of early stuff (but it's all still applicable) on the KRNet website at http://www.krnet.org . Click on "archives" down on the left pane. Unfortunately I couldn't get any of them to work, so that stuff may be ancient history unless somebody's got a copy of it. Too bad, because there was a wealth of information there going back almost to KRNet's inception. The other site is at http://www.hargray.com/~isleno/krnet/krsearch.html and certainly works, but is a little clunky since it uses digests rather than messages, so there's a little bit of digging after the search is complete, especially if the subject line doesn't reflect the messages content. Still, it's a great way to search for something like "Posa" and get all the info you'd ever want on it. And if you really want to take a crash course on KRs, just start at the top and start reading. Newbies should consider taking a look here before asking questions that have already been posted and answered several hundred times. This resource was started in April of 97, and lasted until April 2000, which is when we were forced to switch from Teleport to Mailinglists. Apparently (and I just noticed this) the site hasn't collected any mail since that date. In light of all this, I signed us up for an archive service, which is located at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . It's only been collecting information for a few days, but you can see that it has potential to be easily searchable. A search for "Posa" won't get you anything, but "dumb" sure hits the jackpot! No "Rustoleum" yet though. The only downside is we don't actually control it, and it could go away someday, I suppose. But it looks to be a substantial site with a lot of lists participating, including the VW engine list (which is how I found it), so maybe it'll be with us for a while. Best of all, it's free. Any of you super database guru guys who can take these files and do magic with them are cordially invited to take all of these files of various types and create a better searchable archive system. I personally have much of the old mail, but saved as gigantic text files from the mid 90's. I'm sure other old-timers could fill in the gaps as well. Until then, we're working on our umpteenth archive system... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 02:34:28 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Michael Taglieri Subject: Re: KR> Licensing Help Needed!!! Message-ID: <20001205.024203.9870.5.MikeT_NYC@juno.com> In a message dated 12/2/00 11:31:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Eddie6870@aol.com writes: << Hi all, I just had to chime in on this one. I was turned down on my medical due to my asthma condition. This after I had already been taking lessons for a while. Ive continued my lessons in the hope that the new sport pilot cert. actually happens but if it doesn't I guess Ill just sell off everything I own and fly anyway. I know that sounds drastic but hey what can they do to you if you've got nothing to take. Im building my own airplane and Ill be damned if some beuracrat- sp? is going to tell me whether or not I can fly it . I know that most of you guys out there dont have this option since its a little hard to sell the house not to mention the wife and kids but it might be an option for some. Fly safe and keep the blue side up. E.C >> I can relate to this, because I've had bronchitis for about 20 years. Asthma and bronchitis share certain symptoms and use some of the same drugs for control, but the FAA has no problem with bronchitis because it never attacks suddenly, but develops over the course of a few days after a cold, certain types of dust, pollen, etc. Therefore, although bronchitis has at times reduced me to a semi-invalid for weeks on end, it would never happen without warning in the course of a flight. If your symptoms are like mine, maybe you don't have the classic, wheezing-all-of-a-sudden form of asthma either, and your condition would not be disqualifying. If you DO have the sudden-attack type of asthma and it's not under control, I would hesitate to fly any kind of plane solo even if you legally can. If your condition gives you some kind of warning awhile before the attack, you could land the plane, but if there's no warning, what would you do up there? At any rate, if you have any of these bronchial conditions, it's important to find the right doctor. Regular internists, in my experience, don't have the slightest idea what the hell they're doing in this area. You have to find a pulmonologist, which is usually a subspecialty of internal medicine. They can help you develop a lifestyle and medication regimen that will prevent the episodes from recurring. Mike Taglieri - miket_nyc@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 12:02:21 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Eddie6870@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Licensing Help Needed!!! Message-ID: <59.3c31cfa.275e799d@aol.com> Hey guys Ive gotten some interesting replys on this one and I guess I should clarify a few things. When I was turned down for my medical I was told it was because I have had to go to the hospital a couple of times over the years due to severe asthma attacks . These 2 episodes were brought on by allergic reactions. Turns out that a shot of Benadryl would have done the trick but I didnt know that at the time. Ive only been to the one doctor so I feel that with a little work I can probably get past it. Im not in a big hurry to get my license cause I figure it will be at least 2-3 years before my KR is done and I certainly dont have the means to go out and by a spamcan right now. My point was that I feel that Im more competent to make the decision as to wether or not Im fit to fly than some desk jockey in Washington and if it comes down to a choice Im gonna fly. Im not advocating untrained pilots jumping in a plane and cruisin off into the wild blue. Ive got about 50 hours of instruction and probably 200 hours of unofficial stick time, ( its nice to have friends with airplanes :) and I certainly dont feel ready to jump in a KR and fly, hell theres lots of easier ways to comit suicide. But when my planes ready I intend to be as well and I will fly it with or without an FAA certificate. I know there are a lot of other guys out there in similar situations so I thought Id offer my solution for all to ponder. Fly safe E.C. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 2000 07:35:00 -0700 To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Schmidt, Curtis" Subject: PROPS Message-ID: <00032B7C@kaydon.com> Hey guys: This ones for all you engine/prop guy's, I'm in the process of building a t= ype 4 2700cc can any of you tell me what prop I should be looking at? I would like to run a 3 blade but just because I like the looks of them. I've been looking through prop manufactures and believe me, there isn't an= y shortage of people that want to sale you a prop! My goal is to have a prop that's some what balanced (pun intended) between = clime and speed. Any help is greatly appreciated! CURTIS R SCHMIDT CNC TOOLING & PROGRAMMING LARNED KANSAS USA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:58:28 -0500 To: "Schmidt, Curtis" From: Tom Crawford CC: "krnet@mailinglists.org" Subject: Re: KR> PROPS Message-ID: <3A2D8124.3EC9@ufl.edu> Schmidt, Curtis wrote: > > Hey guys: > This ones for all you engine/prop guy's, I'm in the process of building a type 4 2700cc can any of you tell me what prop I should be looking at? > Curtis, If you want to go with a 2 blade, 54X60 would be a good starting point. -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC 2400cc T4 Mailto:toys@ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:04:52 EST To: cschmidt@kaydon.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: GARYKR2@cs.com Subject: Re: KR> PROPS Message-ID: <6b.cce96c5.275ef8c4@cs.com> In a message dated 12/5/00 8:37:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, cschmidt@kaydon.com writes: << Hey guys: This ones for all you engine/prop guy's, I'm in the process of building a type 4 2700cc can any of you tell me what prop I should be looking at? I would like to run a 3 blade but just because I like the looks of them. I've been looking through prop manufactures and believe me, there isn't any shortage of people that want to sale you a prop! My goal is to have a prop that's some what balanced (pun intended) between clime and speed. Any help is greatly appreciated! CURTIS R SCHMIDT CNC TOOLING & PROGRAMMING LARNED KANSAS USA >> The three blade prop will only help on takeoff roll, not climb, and fall short for cruise. They look great, but that's about it. The # 1 reason to use one is for ground clearance. You can use a smaller dia. by a couple of inches and not loose to much performance. The two blade is the proper choice. Better climb and cruise. Tom Livingston's KR2 has a 2400cc Type 4, with a 52X52 prop. We're still tweaking the engine, but it looks like it will be the right combo. I'm not going to go into prop theory, you can get the books and do that on your own. The fact of it is, two blade is better than three. Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:18:37 -0800 To: "krnet mailing lists" From: "David R. Christensen" Subject: Fw: KR> questions from a Canadian Message-ID: <001501c05ece$a4fea680$15785ad1@davec> -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Rodier To: krnet@mailinglists.org Date: Monday, December 04, 2000 8:38 AM Subject: KR> questions from a Canadian 2. I used Safety-poxy for the fiberglass work. Are there alternative systems that are preferable? 3. What are people using to fill minor imperfections in the glass, and to fill in the weave of the glass. I have some Feather-Fill that I was originally going to use; is that the product of choice now, or are there other products that work better? Wayne, Safety-Poxy (Now called EZ-Poxy) Is still an excellent choice especially where fuel exposure is a factor as it is unaffected by fuel. I also like its 2 hour pot life at 77 degrees F and its low viscosity. I haven't tried the EZ-poxy II which is supposed to have even lower viscosity but takes three days to cure at 77 degrees F compared to 24 hrs for regular EZ-poxy. I also use West Systems epoxy for some lay-ups where a quicker cure is an advantage. It has a pot life of 10 - 40 minutes at 70 degrees F depending on which hardener you choose and partially cures in 5 - 7 hours. Additional information and technical data can be found in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. I get excellent results using West Systems epoxy and West Systems Microlite filler to fill the weave and minor imperfections in the surface contour. It cures up in a few hours so you can get to a second application in a hurry and is easy to sand. Consistancy of the mix can be varied for the specific application. I use the West Systems pumps to dispense the epoxy but I made some little plywood pieces to stop the pump at 1/4 and 1/2 stroke to allow me to make smaller mixes. With a 1/4 stroke mix I usually add 1 1/2 level tbsp of Microlite filler for my first application and 1 tbsp for a thin finish coat to seal the surface. The thin finish coat is important as it precludes any annoying pinholes in the surface. Then before painting I further seal the surface with Randolph Epibond primer. I usually let this dry for an hour or so and then wet sand the surface smooth and immediately apply Randthane color coat. I always use a fresh air supply respirator I rigged up with a small vacuum and a long vacuum hose to protect my health. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 16:54:00 -0700 To: "David R. Christensen" From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet mailing lists Subject: Re: Fw: KR> questions from a Canadian Message-ID: <3A2ED198.93BCD81D@teleport.com> "David R. Christensen" wrote: > > 2. I used Safety-poxy for the fiberglass work. Are there alternative > systems that are preferable? I used Dow Der Epoxy (From Wicks -- KR section) and Aeropoxy for the fiberglass, and Hexcell structural adheasive for the wood. > > 3. What are people using to fill minor imperfections in the glass, and to > fill in the weave of the glass. I have some Feather-Fill that I was > originally going to use; is that the product of choice now, or are there > other products that work better? I used Feather fill, but I think Smooth Prime and one other product is VASTLY superior. Some of the other Netters can comment on this. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 09:20:29 -0600 To: kr net From: user Subject: gear Message-ID: <3A2D07BC.28DF55FB@telepath.com> I'm installing trigear on my kr2 does any one know after installing the fiberglass gear legs on the spar do you fill in the hole in the wing are make an inspection plate ? I don't have the planes for this conversion if any one has them let me know. paul cracker@telepath.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:52:28 +0100 To: "krnet" From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mogens_M=F8lhede_Pedersen?=" Subject: KR-2 for sale. Message-ID: <001701c05edb$c1581d40$8dead7c3@main> KR-2 fore sale. Lost my medical. Further information on: home13.inet.tele.dk/oyrv6a or Mogensmp@mail.tele.dk Regards Mogens Denmark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:57:47 -0600 (CST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: shanspur@webtv.net (shannon spurgeon) Subject: medical Message-ID: <10089-3A2D1E8B-5495@storefull-628.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Not to discourage anyone, because some things are getting better where the FAA is concerned, but my younger brother tried to get his medical a few years back. He had a single seizure less than a week after getting a concussion when thrown from a bareback bronc at a local high-school rodeo. He was 16 at the time of the accident. About 25 years later he reported this on his application and was denied the medical, even after repeated appeals, testimonials from four different doctors, and a new eeg from the original neurologist who saw him when he had the seizure. After more than thirty years of no problems at all, he is still denied. His only recourse now is to go ultralights, self-certify for the sailplane - which I believe covers motorgliders, or just go bootleg as several people I have met did. Of course, I don't remember any of their names, so am unable to put anyone in contact with them... I do believe that if you smother them with documentation of how well you are doing now, your chances improve. But it does seem that it is much easier to get a medical reinstated than to get one issued. Good luck Shannon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:56:54 -0700 To: shannon spurgeon From: cartera CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> medical Message-ID: <3A2D8ED6.D723A2@cuug.ab.ca> Hello Gang, This is a prime example of why one never volunteers information, but just answer the questions your asked. You are the only one who knows best of how you feel and of your abilities. Although there are purists out there who will disagree, fine then live with the results. And if you dealing with bureaucrat there will be plenty of them. Flame me if you want but I have a handy delete button and for a fellow over 65 I have seen plenty of them, trying to be consentious and informative. Happy Flying and Building, Merry Christmas to all!!!! shannon spurgeon wrote: > > Not to discourage anyone, because some things are getting better where > the FAA is concerned, but my younger brother tried to get his medical a > few years back. He had a single seizure less than a week after getting > a concussion when thrown from a bareback bronc at a local high-school > rodeo. He was 16 at the time of the accident. About 25 years later he > reported this on his application and was denied the medical, even after > repeated appeals, testimonials from four different doctors, and a new > eeg from the original neurologist who saw him when he had the seizure. > After more than thirty years of no problems at all, he is still denied. > His only recourse now is to go ultralights, self-certify for the > sailplane - which I believe covers motorgliders, or just go bootleg as > several people I have met did. Of course, I don't remember any of their > names, so am unable to put anyone in contact with them... > I do believe that if you smother them with documentation of how well you > are doing now, your chances improve. But it does seem that it is much > easier to get a medical reinstated than to get one issued. > Good luck > Shannon > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:28:02 -0500 To: "bob hill" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> Questions from a lurking newbie Message-ID: If the plans were used to build a plane, then you need to purchase a license to build one airplane. When you buy plans from the original seller, you are buying a license to build one aircraft. An interesting point, for a long time, you could buy yhe whole thing for $25. I have a letter from the builder who started my project that details the provenance of the plans. ( 2 copies in my case). What's right and honest??? Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: bob hill [mailto:mrbob4you@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 2:46 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Questions from a lurking newbie Greetings from northern Virginia. I recently purchased a set of used plans on eBay after researching the KR planes and realizing that: -the skills required to build one seem within my experience (decent shade-tree mechanic, including rebuilding VW motors, and have basic woodworking skills). -the support for KR builders on the internet is exceptional, especially this list and the archieved newsletters. -these are real-world planes that others have been building and flying for more than twenty years. May I ask for your comment on the following questions? 1-My plans are for the KR2 and include a blue binder with approximatley 200 pages of build instructions and three blueprints; Drawings #1 and #2 and a full-scale firewall template. The plans seem to be from 1989 (serial # 8201). I would like to build a tricycle gear, widened plane, that uses a VW motor. Do my plans need updating?? Should I obtain KR2S plans?? From the factory?? Should I "register" with the factory?? Will they deal with someone who has bought used plans?? 2-I've been plundering (thanks to all) the various resources on the web. I've come across several links to a set of FAQs, but the link is dead. Are the FAQs available anywhere? 3-This would be my first project in building something of this nature. Would it be worthwhile to build something a bit simpler, say an ultralight, just to refine my skills before tackling the KR? All comments appreciated. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 23:47:11 -0500 To: "kr2s group" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Project Update ... Message-ID: <001701c05f3f$999dae00$0dd4b23f@steelcase.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C05F15.AF9B0CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netters, I know it isn't Friday but I would like to give an update on my progress = as of late: - Saturday, with the help of a friend, I moved my KR-2S back into the = dining room for the winter. I couldn't ask for a better workplace - wide = enough to walk around the plane and warm enough to work with epoxy! In = January I am inviting my coworkers to have lunch at my house ... and the = plane is going to be the table! ;-) In case you were wondering ... I am single! And my girlfriend loves = airplanes - her father is a pilot and owns a Cardinal 177-RG, so she's = used to having airplane parts in the house. Someone on the net once told = me that if I marry my current sweetheart I can be guaranteed that I = won't get AIDS - Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome!!! ;-)=20 - Metal work: Cut and shaped the main gear for my plane. Using 0.75" = 7075T6 flat stock. Similar concept to Dr. Dean's gear, except that it is = a few inches shorter and doesn't sweep forward as much. I am having the = axle mounts bent in a machine press so that I don't have to bolt on any = brackets. I hope to have the metal annealed by early next week. Then I = can have it bent and rehardened. I was quoted $30 for annealing, $50 for = hardening. The machine work was offered by a fellow EAA brother who owns = a tool and die shop. I think he enjoyed making the gear legs more than I = did! ;-) I also cut and shaped the elevator horn. The rudder horn is = next on my list. - Fiberglass work: Working on the fit between horizontal stabilizer and = elevator. It will look similar to Mike Mims' gap seal when it is all = done (I hope! ;-) - Redesigned the windshield bow and turtledeck bow. I am attempting to = make it look like the Glasair gullwing canopy. I still haven't heard = back from AS&S on the quote for a custom canopy. In the meantime, I am = trying to figure out a way to make a jig/mold to form the canopy myself. = The EAA Woodworking Techniques book explained how a builder made a = canopy mold out of 1"x2" strips of a wood called Jelitong (sp?) - I have = never heard of it. If you figure out how long your canopy is going to be = (in inches) take that number and divide it in half - that is = approximately how many strips of wood you'll need to glue together to = make the mold. After the strips were glued together, the builder filed = and sanded the wood until the desired shape was achieved. We'll see when = the time comes. That's about it for now. I'm just having fun with it. :-) Happy Building. Albert Pecoraro http://home.earthlink.net/~gryphonflier ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C05F15.AF9B0CE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 08:39:48 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Canopy molding Message-ID: <20001206163948.16980.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com> --- Albert Pecoraro wrote: I am trying to figure out a way to make a jig/mold to form the canopy myself. Albert, Others, Re: canopy. Check out this website. These guys make bubble canopies for bicycles and this technique could be used to shape canopies and small bubbles for home-builts. It's an interesting site even if you dont use the information... http://recumbents.com/wisil/bubbles/hpvbubbles.htm ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:04:29 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: DClarke351@aol.com Subject: Ignition System Message-ID: Looking through the pictures of the gathering I noticed one picture of the rear of Steve Bennetts spinner bulhead. Is that an ignition pickup or what is it. I am looking for a second ignition system that can run the lower set of plugs on mine that is not run off the crank. Does anyone out there know of such a setup? Any info would be appreciated. Don Clarke ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************