From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 25 Feb 2001 00:53:34 -0000 Issue 178 Date: Saturday, February 24, 2001 4:53 PM krnet Digest 25 Feb 2001 00:53:34 -0000 Issue 178 Topics (messages 4223 through 4252): Turbo 4223 by: Patrick Driscoll 4226 by: Frank Ross Re: ELT antenna 4224 by: Laheze.aol.com Re: Possible virus? ... 4225 by: Robert E. Moser 4230 by: Robert Stone 4231 by: Albert Pecoraro Re: Paint, fuel, and more weirdness... 4227 by: Krwr1.aol.com 4237 by: Serge F. VIDAL 4252 by: Tom Crawford Re: Cylinder Upgrade a 1600 to 1835 4228 by: Albert Pecoraro Re: h/p 4229 by: Albert Pecoraro 4232 by: FIDNET Re: Seat belt attachments on a KR2 4233 by: Ross Youngblood Re: just a couple of questions... 4234 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Corrosion protection for exhaust pipes 4235 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Exhaust rust prevention 4236 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Chutes? 4238 by: Ross Youngblood 4251 by: BillStarrs Re: Ceramic Coating Process 4239 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Ceramic exhaust coating pricing... 4240 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Ceramic vs. Zinc vs. BBQ... 4241 by: Ross Youngblood KR SPAM approach 4242 by: Ross Youngblood Re: FRIDAY QUESTION 4243 by: Ross Youngblood Re: This is weird... 4244 by: Ross Youngblood Re: KRNet contributions 4245 by: Ross Youngblood Rolling rotaries... 4246 by: CS 4248 by: JEHayward.aol.com 4249 by: Frank Ross Re: Neat looking model... 4247 by: Tom Andersen turning engines backwards 4250 by: Oscar Zuniga Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:28:40 -0800 To: "KR-POST" From: "Patrick Driscoll" Subject: Turbo Message-ID: <412001262462840130@earthlink.net> I saw a picture somewhere of a KR2S with a turboprop engine. Anybody know the guy's name and email address? --- Patrick Driscoll --- patrick36@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:51:55 -0800 (PST) To: KR-POST From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Turbo Message-ID: <20010224085155.2732.qmail@web4704.mail.yahoo.com> > I saw a picture somewhere of a KR2S with a turboprop > engine --- Patrick Driscoll Patrick, You can get information about that at Mark Langford's site. I copied the address for you, click on: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/strent.html and read all about it. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:47:17 EST To: ralphndori@juno.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Laheze@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> ELT antenna Message-ID: Hi Ralph, Since you are building a composite airplane and not an aluminum plane you can mount your elt antenna in the baggage compartment. The signal will penetrate the KR structure in the event of a HARD landing! Larry Howell laheze@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:54:51 -0500 To: "kr2s group" From: "Robert E. Moser" Subject: RE: KR> Possible virus? ... Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010224014850.00b3fdb0@viper> Dear 'Netters, Certainly do NOT open this file! It is a program file with the program icon cleverly set to "look like" an acrobat document, so you might click on it thinking it is a harmless acrobat document when in fact it is a malicious program. Note, I do not KNOW for certain it is a malicious program, but all the signs are there ;-) I have not run it to see what it does. I did find an origin of sorts, and the originating timezone is "IDT", which is Istanbul. I reported the incident to the administrators of the originating network, and to CERT, an international security body. Please follow Mark L's advice (I say this as a computer professional) -- don't open these from those you don't know, and open few even from those you do know... otherwise, expect problems! Robert At 09:39 PM 2/23/01 -0500, RONALD.FREIBERGER wrote: >Accept no *.EXE files from someone you don't know, and very damn few from >someone you do know. Use Norton antivirus. > >Ron Freiberger... >mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Albert Pecoraro [mailto:gryphonflier@earthlink.net] >Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:54 PM >To: kr2s group >Subject: KR> Possible virus? ... > > >Hi everyone, > >I received an email today from "Sender unspecified" along with an attachment >named AFHDDOAF.EXE. I've tried searching the databases of McAfee Anti-Virus >software and Symantec Norton Anti-Virus software for any information about >this, but I've had no success. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:14:34 -0600 To: "Mark Langford" , From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Possible virus? ... Message-ID: <000a01c09e6c$1de0c420$0101a8c0@pavilion> Neters: planecraft@[prodigy.net is Richard McCall, a good friend of mine who used to live down here in Harker Heights, Texas. He now lives in Trophy Club, Texas which is on the north side of Fort worth. Every time I send him an E-Mail I get that message back and it's useless. I will send him a message asking him to delete it. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:05 PM Subject: Re: KR> Possible virus? ... > Albert wrote regarding the stupid message: > > >>"Thanks for your email! I'll get back to you as soon as I can". > > I got this message twice today, once after each post that I made. It turns > out that somebody (no signature either) at planecraft@prodigy.net has his > autoreply set to automatically reply with that silly little message while > he's on vacation or something. So everytime he gets a message from KRNet, > it automatically hits the "reply" and sends that message. I unsubscribed > him. > > The one thing I hate about this mailing list is that we can't shut down > enclosures. I've asked Alan to fix that, but he hasn't so far. Just be > careful and don't open any enclosures that don't have a good explanation for > why they're there. Some message from a buddy that says "Hi, you gotta see > this" gets deleted immediately unless it's followed by a sentence that > explains what it is... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:30:23 -0500 To: "kr2s group" , "Robert E. Moser" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Re: KR> Possible virus? ... Message-ID: <008501c09e6e$54024540$0ed4b23f@steelcase.com> Robert, I checked the message source and the origin is Israel. It is coming from the mail server of a telecommunication company called Bezeq International. I notified their webmaster and customer-service departments, as well as Mcafee Anti-Virus Software. It appears that their system may have been breached. I think we can end this thread for now until we hear something more conclusive. Albert > Note, I do not KNOW for certain it is a malicious program, but all the > signs are there ;-) I have not > run it to see what it does. I did find an origin of sorts, and the > originating timezone is "IDT", which is Istanbul. > I reported the incident to the administrators of the originating network, > and to CERT, an international > security body. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:08:42 EST To: dc9898@yahoo.com, GARYKR2@cs.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Krwr1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Paint, fuel, and more weirdness... Message-ID: <36.127bbb29.27c90c5a@aol.com> In a message dated 02/23/2001 8:55:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, dc9898@yahoo.com writes: << e other stuff seen in airshows, I just want to do rolls and half-rolls every once in a while. Do you mean the KR 2S is not designed for (mild) aerobatics, or it just WILL NOT do them? Thanks. Chuck >> If you do a slow roll right, it's OK, I did slow rolls all the time. But it's more of a barrel roll. There is no G's involved. But the thing is don't fall out of a slow roll, then you go into split s, and you will really go down hill fast. Now that is no big thing, but when you decide to pull out, That is the big thing. You can really work up a tight butt. Bill Youngstown Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:04:16 +0200 To: From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: RE: KR> Paint, fuel, and more weirdness... Message-ID: Dear Chuck, The composite drones experts at my company told me that black is bad for composite because it gives the highest surface temperature, hence creating delamination. Serge VIDAL Johannesburg, South Africa -----Original Message----- From: CS [mailto:dc9898@yahoo.com] Sent: 23 February, 2001 10:44 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Paint, fuel, and more weirdness... Hi all... More weird questions... 1. While digging around on Mark Langford's site the other day, I saw where he mentioned leaving his plane in primer because of future mods. I have the feeling he was kidding, but it got me to thinking...why not? I've been looking at Sportair articles on composites and painting, also digging thru A.S.S. catalog (that's one acronym I actually like, between computer geeks and airplane freaks I'm about sick of alphabet soup)and I can't find an answer to whether finish paint is actually REQUIRED. It seems that most of the UV protection comes at the primer level anyway. My first set of weird questions: -Is finish coat required for some reason? -What is weight penalty of finish paint? (I already have a pretty good idea of the "money penalty") -Will "slick" finish paint lower drag to any appreciable degree? Also, I would like to paint my plane black, not necessarily in memory of Dale, but I just happen to lean toward the outlaw look (wonder why). I read somewhere that dark paint weighs more than light paint, and also is worse on UV issues. Are either of these true in a practical as opposed to a theoretical sense? My plane will pretty much be covered when it's not in the air, but some days I may be in the air 6-8 hours or more (not much shade up there). Is black paint an issue worth worrying about? Also, for some strange reason, A.S.S. doesn't seem to carry black primer...is there a neutral colorizer I can add to primer to make it black? Would doing that affect the chemical composition of the primer to any appreciable degree? 2. I'm thinking about using wing tanks that pump into a small (probably 6 gal) header tank. I want to design this to be able to fly inverted (maybe not cross-country but two minutes might be doable). I realize there is a vacuum issue involved, and the location of fuel pickups and "one-way" valves in fuel line needs to be considered. If someone wants to take a shot at helping me with this one (or pointing me in a direction where I might find out), I'd appreciate it if you would reply to me directly. I have a feeling this discussion is a little too "niche" for the board, and it might get kinda involved. Last weird question (for today): Anyone ever built an R/C model KR 2S? Thanks. Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:56:37 -0500 To: ron.martha@mindspring.com From: Tom Crawford CC: KRNET , CS Subject: Re: KR> Paint, fuel, and more weirdness... Message-ID: <3A985845.39E9@ufl.edu> RONALD.FREIBERGER wrote: > > . This into an Ellison carb. The > low pressure is to minimise mixture change if pump/electricals fail. The > pump is bypassed by an extremely low cracking pressure check valve from ASS. > Tom Crawford assures me the Ellison will function at gravity head, tho > somewhat less than perfectly. My T4 VW runs fine with the 3A Ellison. If I DON'T turn on the fuel pump, I notice the EGT is a bit higher on take off. Still flys tho. Typically, I turn on the pump before take off, then shut it off in cruise. I turn it back on downwind in the pattern. -- Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC KR2 T4 VW Building RV6A, wings Mailto:toys@ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:16:58 -0500 To: "kr2s group" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Re: KR> Cylinder Upgrade a 1600 to 1835 Message-ID: <002901c09e64$121d4440$0ed4b23f@steelcase.com> Larry, For all things VW related to aircraft, start with Great Plains Aircraft Supply Co. (GPASC): http://www.greatplainsas.com The direct link to the upgrade kits is: http://www.greatplainsas.com/pg15.html Enoy! Albert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Dorothy Jones" To: Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 12:10 AM Subject: KR> Cylinder Upgrade a 1600 to 1835 > I'm looking for information on upgrading my 1600 engine to a 1835. I > understand that there is a company that has these cylinder kits and > necessary components. If anyone has any information about this please > email me back at jones@ncis.com. I'm looking for price and > availability. > > Thank you. > > Larry Jones > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:24:44 -0500 To: "kr2s group" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Re: KR> h/p Message-ID: <003101c09e65$2863f9a0$0ed4b23f@steelcase.com> Pitch-heads, Thanks for all the replies to my propeller pitch question. I have enough information now to "experiment" with some possible combinations. Albert > > The pitch is dependent on your cruising airspeed and engine speed at > altitude. The formula is: > > Pitch = airspeed / engine speed > > Applying appropriate conversion constants: > > Pitch (inches/revolution) = airspeed (MPH) x 5280 (feet/mile) x 12 > (inches/foot) / RPM X 60 (minutes/hour) > or Pitch = 1056 x Airspeed / Engine Speed > > As an example, my airplane at 150 mph and 3,400 rpm would need a pitch of > 46.58 which it has. > > James Postma ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:37:37 -0600 To: "Albert Pecoraro" , "kr2s group" From: "FIDNET" Subject: RE: KR> h/p Message-ID: Extremely valuable information: The pitch is dependent on your cruising airspeed and engine speed at > altitude. The formula is: > > Pitch = airspeed / engine speed > > Applying appropriate conversion constants: > > Pitch (inches/revolution) = airspeed (MPH) x 5280 (feet/mile) x 12 > (inches/foot) / RPM X 60 (minutes/hour) > or Pitch = 1056 x Airspeed / Engine Speed I understand that different prop designs will also deliver different results. But in searching for a starting point, most engines have a graph showing the torque available at various RPM's. Now can someone help take it to the next level...assuming we are dealing with a stock wing (K.I.S.S. for now) the average plane, pilot and fuel weights, how much touque does an engine need to have available to maintain the setting for the length/pitch combinations at rpms? -----Original Message----- From: Albert Pecoraro [mailto:gryphonflier@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 7:25 AM To: kr2s group Subject: Re: KR> h/p Pitch-heads, Thanks for all the replies to my propeller pitch question. I have enough information now to "experiment" with some possible combinations. Albert > > > > As an example, my airplane at 150 mph and 3,400 rpm would need a pitch of > 46.58 which it has. > > James Postma --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:43:29 -0700 To: DennisMingear@netscape.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Seat belt attachments on a KR2 Message-ID: <3A97E4B1.4438E238@home.com> Dennis, Well, my plans were dated 1988, and I didn't get a supplement, even though the EAA had new members sign an affidavit that we would install shoulder harnesses in our aircraft the KR plans did not even have lap belt installation instructions as of that date. I do recall some folks posting that there is a suppliment, and in fact I think somone has photos of the sholder belt installation on the web so I think the 'Netter community has done a good job of covering the situation. My seatbelt installation was done some years ago, and my responses tend to have a time warp effect, in they are based on the data I had at the time I made them, and I'm not going to re-do them now, as they are adequate. -- Regards Ross DennisMingear@netscape.net wrote: > Whats wrong with using the setup specified in the plans? Jeannette had the method approved by an engineer. The method was provided as a supplement to my KR1 plans. If you have an old set of plans that didn't include the restraint system supplement, I'm sure RR would provide a copy to anyone building a KR. The supplement could be scanned and posted, its not that complicated. > > Dennis... > > Ross Youngblood wrote: > > > > There was a newsletter article about using AN4 eye bolts for attaching the > > sling seat tube, > > then attaching the seat belts here. Then Monte Miller sent in another > > contribution with > > the details on construcing a steel bar behind the seat back attached with > > oak blocks to > > the longerons. I constructed one of these and attached my sholder harness > > there. > > > > I can't comment on the structural integrity of this, however it is vastly > > superior to those > > provided by the plans. (NONE) My solution / ZERO Solution = infinitely > > better solution > > > > -- Ross > > > > "HEATH, DANIEL R" wrote: > > > > > The only way I know of to attach seat belts on a KR2 is by cables to the > > > tailwheel. Does anyone know of any other ways that are safe? > > > > > > Daniel R. Heath > > > DHeath@SCANA.com > > > 803-217-9984 > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:52:09 -0700 To: Mark Jones From: Ross Youngblood CC: Michael Geoghegan , Frank Ross , KR-Net Subject: Re: KR> just a couple of questions... Message-ID: <3A97E6B9.C7FECCFD@home.com> Mark, This may be a loosing battle... it is pretty easy in Netscape to push "reply to all" instead of just "reply to", which will send the message back to KR-net. I try to do this on my replies if I think they are of importance to the group. This helps cut down on Spam. -- Regards Ross Mark Jones wrote: > Excellent point made here about the "reply to". I would like it set to > default to all to see every post. I feel we all are missing a lot of > important messages because of the "reply to" default being set as it is. I > vote to get rid of it so all post are sent through the net!!! > Mark Jones > > Michael Geoghegan wrote: > > > I might note that there was a decision made, after considerable debate > > and vote to change the reply all default to reply only to the sender > > default. I think it has taken a while but you Mark have finally reported > > the results. Although there were many more daily posts in the past > > everyone got to see the all the answers to all the questions. Ah the > > good old days. > > > > Mike Geoghegan > > N47MG > > > > Frank Ross wrote: > > > > > --- Mark Langford wrote: > > > > Why is it that nobody bothered to answer Timothy's > > > > question ...? .... > > > > Mark Langford, trying to keep a low profile, and > > > > failing miserably > > > > > > Mark, others, > > > A lot of the questions are answered off net. I keep a > > > copy of the questions and answers in case I have the > > > same problem. Answering off-net usually means that > > > when I (and others) have a similar problem, we have to > > > post the same question and hope for an answer. Seems > > > it would be just as easy to post on-net and then > > > everyone has the answer. I sure would appreciate it. > > > > > > I am very grateful for all the time each of you put > > > into answers and web-sites. I know how busy you are > > > and how time-consuming answering questions can be. My > > > way of re-paying you will be to stay on the net and > > > begin providing answers when I get to the point that I > > > know the answers. > > > Thanks > > > > > > ===== > > > Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > > > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > -- > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:59:21 -0700 To: svidal@icon.co.za From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Corrosion protection for exhaust pipes Message-ID: <3A97E869.CD95ADA4@home.com> Besides Moving to Arizona? I had heard that taping your exhaust with glass tape makes this condition worse, so I was told to nickle plate mine since I wanted to keep my engine compartment cool. In looking at the costs for nickle plating, I discovered that you can have them ceramic coated with a ceramic plasma coating which coats the inside and outside for about the same cost. This is supposed to have a lifetime guarentee. And it is supposed to keep the pipe surface COOL. Every degree you do not cool the exhaust gas by keeping it hot, gives you about 1% or so more horsepower as it scavenges better (I think that was the term). So check into the plating... I used a place in White City Oregon but any powder coating place should know of a shop that does ceramic coating. "Serge F. VIDAL" wrote: > Hi, fellow netters. > > A quick question for the skilled metallurgists. > > How can I prevent my exhaust pipes from rusting? They are made of mild > steel. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:04:32 -0700 To: Frank Ross From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Exhaust rust prevention Message-ID: <3A97E9A0.822A1D7B@home.com> Ohh Thanks for the endorsement Frank! Say I'm coming out your way the 19th of March. I looked up the folks who did my coating... Thermo Dyne in White City Oregon 541-XXX-XXXX http://www.nicindustries.com/therm.htm I paid about $250 or therabouts to get my VW 4 into 1 exhaust done by them. The "J" tubes came out perfect. Somthing went wrong with the process on the 4-into-1 portion and there was some epoxy globs on it. I think this may burn off after I run the engine again so I haven't done anything about it yet. It has a lifetime warrenty, so I think I will email them to see what they say. -- Regards Ross Frank Ross wrote: > Serge asks: > How can I prevent my exhaust pipes from rusting? > > Ross Youngblood has ceramic coating and it looks > great. His plane is not flying yet and is in his > garage. He posts answers about once a week, so I'm > assuming he is checking his e-mail on the weekends and > posting then. I'm sure you'll hear from him later. Be > patient. > Some processes add excess weight, be careful. > Does anyone know if "Bluing", or "browning" as in > firearms is feasable? > Also, can powder-coating be used on exhaust or > high-temp areas? > Thanks > > ===== > Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:21:38 -0700 To: Clay1Pilot@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: rick@hubka.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Chutes? Message-ID: <3A97EDA2.33AF10A1@home.com> I bought mine from "Strong Parachutes" They go to all the airshows. Although most KR-netters don't plan on buying chutes, I decided that my interests made a purchase worthwhile. Out here in Arizona we have great sailplane weather, and aerobatic training weather. I figure once I get some $$$, I will buy a used sailplane and fly cross country. The FAA requires cross country sailplane flying be done with a parachute. If doing somthing as safe as flying a sailplane in a flat desert requires a parachute, I figured it may be a nice back cushon on the KR during test flying. I have sat in the KR with the parachute... things are a bit cramped with it on. I was told by Strong that I can get a differnt pack for the canopy if I didn't like the fit. I got the seatback (backpack) type, but I was looking to get the paracushon chair type. My only drawback is that I got my N number embroidered on my chute pack, so I don't know if it can be exchanged. I'm going to do a couple of more sitting trials before I make my decision. It pushes me forward a couple of inches, somthing to think about. Crawl into your KR with a couple of pillows strapped to your back, and you get the general idea. Pillows compress more than the packed chute does, so I think it will work out about the same. Plus I think it is fun to visualize 50 or more KR-netters in the garage with two pillows strapped to their backs, crawling into the KR-boat and making airplane noises. -- Ross Clay1Pilot@aol.com wrote: > Where can I find information on parachutes for experimental I have seen them > before ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:30:51 -0700 To: "Ross Youngblood" , From: "BillStarrs" Cc: , Subject: Re: KR> Chutes? Message-ID: <004601c09eb9$d61ae8c0$540b2aa2@starrs> What do you think your chances are of getting out of your plane with your parachute? I suggest praciting a few fast exsist on the ground, perfectly still, and then emagine what it would like in an emergency situation in Flight. If you can afford the extra $$$ for the Balistic chute, that is the best bet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Youngblood" To: Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 10:21 AM Subject: Re: KR> Chutes? > I bought mine from "Strong Parachutes" > > They go to all the airshows. > > Although most KR-netters don't plan on buying chutes, I decided that > my interests made a purchase worthwhile. Out here in Arizona we have > great sailplane weather, and aerobatic training weather. I figure once I > get some $$$, I will buy a used sailplane and fly cross country. The > FAA requires cross country sailplane flying be done with a parachute. > If doing somthing as safe as flying a sailplane in a flat desert requires a > parachute, I figured it may be a nice back cushon on the KR during > test flying. > > I have sat in the KR with the parachute... things are a bit cramped > with it on. I was told by Strong that I can get a differnt pack > for the canopy if I didn't like the fit. I got the seatback (backpack) > type, but I was looking to get the paracushon chair type. My only > drawback is that I got my N number embroidered on my chute pack, > so I don't know if it can be exchanged. I'm going to do a couple of > more sitting trials before I make my decision. It pushes me forward > a couple of inches, somthing to think about. > > Crawl into your KR with a couple of pillows strapped to your back, and > you get the general idea. Pillows compress more than the packed chute > does, so I think it will work out about the same. Plus I think it is fun to > visualize 50 or more KR-netters in the garage with two pillows strapped > to their backs, crawling into the KR-boat and making airplane noises. > > -- Ross > > > > Clay1Pilot@aol.com wrote: > > > Where can I find information on parachutes for experimental I have seen them > > before > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:28:02 -0700 To: "HEATH, DANIEL R" From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: Ceramic Coating Process Message-ID: <3A97EF21.C82EB90A@home.com> Daniel, Here is my undersdanding of the ceramic coating process (may be all wrong, and contain errors) The Ceramic coating is applied as a plasma which is to say, a very HIGH electric current is applied (and possibly high heat) to some type of ceramic paste which is shot onto the metal exhaust (after it has been sand blasted), what you get is a ceramic which is BONDED to the metal, and isn't very thick. I didn't weigh my exhaust before/after, but I think the ceramic coating would be lighter than paint and fiberglass tape. I think the additional weight would be less than 10 oz, but that is a guess. "HEATH, DANIEL R" wrote: > Ceramic coating sounds great, but does anyone know how much weight it adds? > > Daniel R. Heath > DHeath@SCANA.com > 803-217-9984 > > -----Original Message----- > From: CS [mailto:dc9898@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:06 AM > To: Horn2004@aol.com; svidal@icon.co.za; krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> Ceramic exhaust coating pricing... > > Hey all, > > > << How can I prevent my exhaust pipes from rusting? > > > Some people have had them ceramic coated > > > The ceramic coating will be rather pricey > ------------- > Did a Google search on "ceramic exhaust coating," got > this place (this link skips useless shockwave intro), > > http://www.performancecoatings.com/home.htm > > and here's prices if you want to go direct... > > http://www.performancecoatings.com/Prices.htm > > Starts at $100.00 for 4-cyl manifold, up to $340 for > race boat headers. No mention of flying VWs, Subarus, > or 'Vairs... > > CS > > compared > > to run-of-the-mill > > Bar-B-Que paint, but the results will be far > > superior. And I can tell you > > that exhaust header paint and bar-b-que paint will > > still rust. > > > > Perhaps somebody who has used the ceramic coating > > can "pipe-up" here and let > > us know how the coating has performed. > > > > Steve Horn > > horn2004@aol.com > > Dallas, Texas > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:29:18 -0700 To: Michael Sharp From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Ceramic exhaust coating pricing... Message-ID: <3A97EF6E.B75B9D9F@home.com> I've had no trouble getting any parts for my Sand Rail/Dune Buggy which I then decide to turn into an airplane after I see what fine work the shop has done for me. > Also, I know it goes without saying, be careful taking "airplane parts" to > open shops. I've been refused service because they didn't want the > liability... One was a powder coating firm.. so when i took it in I told him > it was Tractor parts.... > > Cheers, > Mike > > >From: "HEATH, DANIEL R" > >To: krnet@mailinglists.org > >Subject: RE: KR> Ceramic exhaust coating pricing... > >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:37:01 -0500 > > > >Ceramic coating sounds great, but does anyone know how much weight it adds? > > > >Daniel R. Heath > >DHeath@SCANA.com > >803-217-9984 > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: CS [mailto:dc9898@yahoo.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:06 AM > >To: Horn2004@aol.com; svidal@icon.co.za; krnet@mailinglists.org > >Subject: KR> Ceramic exhaust coating pricing... > > > > > >Hey all, > > > > > << How can I prevent my exhaust pipes from rusting? > > > > > Some people have had them ceramic coated > > > > > The ceramic coating will be rather pricey > >------------- > >Did a Google search on "ceramic exhaust coating," got > >this place (this link skips useless shockwave intro), > > > >http://www.performancecoatings.com/home.htm > > > >and here's prices if you want to go direct... > > > >http://www.performancecoatings.com/Prices.htm > > > >Starts at $100.00 for 4-cyl manifold, up to $340 for > >race boat headers. No mention of flying VWs, Subarus, > >or 'Vairs... > > > >CS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > compared > > > to run-of-the-mill > > > Bar-B-Que paint, but the results will be far > > > superior. And I can tell you > > > that exhaust header paint and bar-b-que paint will > > > still rust. > > > > > > Perhaps somebody who has used the ceramic coating > > > can "pipe-up" here and let > > > us know how the coating has performed. > > > > > > Steve Horn > > > horn2004@aol.com > > > Dallas, Texas > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! > >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:37:17 -0700 To: CS From: Ross Youngblood CC: "Seifert, Richard E" , 'KRnet' Subject: Re: KR> Ceramic vs. Zinc vs. BBQ... Message-ID: <3A97F14D.CCF29233@home.com> Chuck, The HP increase on ceramic coating is negligible, the figures I recall are 1% hp increase for each 1 degree increase in the EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) that leaves the exhaust pipe. My understanding is that if you keep the exhaust gasses hot as they leave the exahust pipe, when they hit the COLD outside air, more of a vacuum effect is created pulling the remaining exhaust gasses out of the engine. This is probably poor physics, but it has somthing to do with the temperature difference between the exhaust and the outside air, and what that does to the back pressure on the exhaust stack. My primary motivation for going to ceramic coating wasn't HP, but the distance between my exhaust stack and my battery, and my exhaust stack and the two intake manifold down tubes going to my Ellison TBI. I didn't want my battery to boil, and wanted to keep my engine compartment cool. The Electronic Ignition will also like me for this. The marketing jargon on ceramic coating hinted that my ceramic coated exhausts may be as cool as 80 degrees (I thought this was 80F, but it could be 80C now that I think of it). I need to get my VW fired up and check the EGT's so we can compare with other folks. Too bad I don't have any good before EGT data. CS wrote: > > Headers can be ceramic coated or...paint them with > spray on Zinc > ----------------- > Hi all... > > New here but trying to not ask dumb questions. A > certain (unnamed) member has already dealt with most > of those...he knows who he is. Anyway, when the > ceramic vs. hi-temp paint question came up, I did a > search and found this on one website: > > "It has proven to be very common for almost any V8 > engine to show approximately a 10 H.P. gain when only > the pistons are coated. Partially coated engines have > shown 20 to 25 H.P. increases." > > A paragraph later, I found this: > > "It should be noted that every application will be > different and no two engines respond exactly alike." > > Uh-huh. > > So, my question: Does anyone actually KNOW if ceramic > will lead to appreciable hp increase? I don't intend > to go for "Best-looking plane" at any fly-ins, so if > they're all the same I'll go with zinc or BBQ...but if > > I get more ponies, it's worth looking at. > > Thanks in advance. Really appreciate KRNet. It's > amazin' how much I can learn by keeping my mouth shut > and my eyes/ears open. > > Chuck > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:42:51 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: KR SPAM approach Message-ID: <3A97F29B.6B14B7E1@home.com> In the interests of keeping SPAM off the KR net website, I am suggesting a solution. This was triggered by all the positive responses I recieved to the history of SPAM post (Monty Python). I'm thinking of having a KR SPAM link on the krnet.org website. Have a photograph of yourself taken with your KR & a can of SPAM nearby, or with a SPAM related sign and we will post it. You can email or ftp your entries to the krnet admin at krnet@krnet.org or rossy65@home.com If you want to ftp the file, let me know via email... I need to refresh my memory on our ftp password etc etc at teleport. I'm sure it still works, I just haven't used it. -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:50:09 -0700 To: pjvisc@netzero.net From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> FRIDAY QUESTION Message-ID: <3A97F451.EB171E1D@home.com> Phil, I have been known to open my PC and upgrade it from time to time. This is one good explaination for why my KR is not yet completed, it's not the real reason, but it will work for the moment. I don't know if I can help, but you can email me questions. I can recommend a good book (HEAVY). "Upgrading and Reparing PC's Eleventh Edition" by Scott Muller Que books. (By from the Amazon.com link at krnet, and KR-net gets money to keep the krnet.org domain and website going.) The book is about 3" thick, covers lots of stuff, and can also be used to weigh down the tail of your KR if you have a taildragger, and are worried about the tail coming up when the wheels are off. (I don't actually do this with mine). -- Ross pjvisc@netzero.net wrote: > Anyone have a CD R/W drive with a CD ROM drive on their system ? > I recently bought and installed CD Burner and am having a few problems > with conflicts. Any help would be very welcome. > > Phil Visconti ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:53:49 -0700 To: CS From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> This is weird... Message-ID: <3A97F52D.2A6F8BC@home.com> > The RR webpage says the KR 2 is 14' 6" long. > It also says the KR 2S is 16" longer than KR 2. > It also says the KR 2S is 16' long. > > Now I'm not a math major, but isn't there something > out of whack here? > > Doesn't 16' minus 14'6" equal 18"? > > I realize this pretty much falls into the "KR trivia" > category, but I'm just wondering what are the real > numbers. > > If I've missed something here it will be a LONG time > before I post again. > > Chuck I think you found somthing.... My KR is slightly longer than stock. I need to go measure it. However, I think the statement "objects in mirror are closer than they appear", or "your mileage may vary" or "Measurments do not reflect spinner variance, or dealer applied incentives, all KRs' must be completed by 2/2/01 to qualify for these length rebates" -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:02:13 -0700 To: Mark Langford From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KRNet contributions Message-ID: <3A97F725.9DEBD98E@home.com> Mark, Hey Thanks for the post re $$! This mailinglists.org service is really terrific. One thing I like about it is that it is NOT FREE, cause when you use FREE service, you get what you pay for, plus advertising which I hate. When you pay for somthing you get some control over what you have... which is why I still pay for krnet.org at teleport instead of hosting it at Joe's free web sites 'r' us. Right now I'm pissed at Teleport a bit, they were so good and so successful, they were bought out by a bigger company, then another company, and are now apart of Earthlink. Someday, I would like to bring the website, and the mailinglist back under the same umbrella, but hey, it's too much work to find a web host place that will be relaible (i.e. a big enough company), but not charge an arm and a leg for the services we use. I would encourage those who were going to send me checks to cover KR-net, to send $$ to the donations address.. as many of you have noticed, I may have not gotten around to even depositing your checks. (I found many when I moved). I don't have a dba (doing business as) account, and there isn't enough KRnet money to justify the expense of setting one up at the moment. I't was just easier for me to pay for our krnet.org domain and website for another year out of my own funds. Perhaps someday, we could form an association to buy the rights for the KR design and provide support. In the meantime, I like things the way they are. Mark Langford wrote: > KRNetHeads, > > People are always asking me what they can do to support the KRNet list, and > this is it. Last year at about this time KRNet got really flaky and > eventually crapped out entirely. I signed us up for this particular > mailinglists.org service because I knew it was fast and reliable from > previous experience. It has definitely proven itself so far. Initially > the fee was $110 ($10 to get started, and $100 for the first year) and Dr. > Dean agreed that it would be a fitting contribution for Trailing Edge > Technologies to pay that bill, so it wasn't a sacrifice on my part. I think > we've definitely gotten our money's worth in the last year. The only > problems we've had are people accidently unsubscribing themselves by > clicking on the wrong address at the bottom, so be careful! > > Anyway, Alan Clegg, the guy that runs the service, has changed to a donation > system whereby regular users can donate a small sum to keep his service > afloat. The web site to make these donations is at > http://www.mailinglists.org/donations.html . You can use "PayPal" to make > the payment, or just send him a little check for maybe three or four dollars > to: > > Firehouse Network Consulting > Post Office Box 1896 > Cary, NC 27502 > > Note that this has nothing to do with Ross's "official KRNet" web site at > www.krnet.org , which requires some real money to support too. I'll leave > comments regarding that to him. We usually take up a collection at the > Gathering for that purpose but it was forgotten this year, and since it will > be hosted by a non-netter this year, will probably be forgotten again. > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:03:06 -0800 (PST) To: Krwr1@aol.com, GARYKR2@cs.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: CS Subject: Rolling rotaries... Message-ID: <20010224200306.2814.qmail@web2301.mail.yahoo.com> Hey Bill, >If you do a slow roll right, it's OK, Well, an Extra 300L supposedly does a roll of 420 deg. per sec., a Pitts S1C does 180/s...what do you think is reasonable to expect from a KR 2S? I guess the baseline would be 1/s, which means it would take 6 minutes to roll, and THAT, my friend is a slow roll. > You can really work up a > tight butt. Adrenaline is good, keeps the old ticker tuned up. I don't plan to do this stuff 20 ft. off the deck...at least not the first day. You've heard the old saying, whatever doesn't kill you...will make you feel like crap for a few days. Also, to the group, since the black paint question I really have nothing to lose, so...I might as well 'fess up, I'm leaning heavily toward a Mazda 13B engine. I really don't want to get into a "my motor can beat up your motor" flameout, but has anyone had personal experience with these motors? I could give the reasons I'm leaning in that direction, but it really doesn't matter (mostly pwr/wgt ratio and "trickability"). Any thoughts appreciated. Chuck OT: Has anyone else checked out the "Facetplane?" That thing is COOL... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:11:03 EST To: dc9898@yahoo.com, Krwr1@aol.com, GARYKR2@cs.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Rolling rotaries... Message-ID: In a message dated 2/24/01 1:03:42 PM Mountain Standard Time, dc9898@yahoo.com writes: << I'm leaning heavily toward a Mazda 13B engine. I really don't want to get into a "my motor can beat up your motor" flameout, but has anyone had personal experience with these motors? I could give the reasons I'm leaning in that direction, but it really doesn't matter (mostly pwr/wgt ratio and "trickability"). >> I was looking really strong at a rotary but understand the fuel consumption is on the order of 6 to 7 gph which is just too much for my likes. Jim Hayward Rapid City, SD ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:24:04 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Rolling rotaries... Message-ID: <20010224212404.11289.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com> --- JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > << I'm leaning heavily toward a Mazda 13B engine. CS > I was looking really strong at a rotary but > understand the fuel consumption...is just too much ... > Jim Hayward Not a rotary, the engine in my wife's Miata is a twin-cam 133hp four that is STRONG. I keep wondering why she needs an engine anyway... ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:36:39 -0500 To: "CS" , "Frank Ross" , From: "Tom Andersen" Subject: Re: Neat looking model... Message-ID: <004301c09ea1$7fa64420$77dc5818@triad.rr.com> I don't know if anyone is using a strake on their KR. I can tell you that the best thing to do is lengthen a KR's tail rather than increase the area. You could lengthen it 2 feet and it would not be too long. Give yourself another 4 -6 inches ahead of the main spar while you're at it for legroom. -Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: CS To: Tom Andersen ; Frank Ross ; Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 8:41 PM Subject: Neat looking model... > Hey Tom, > > That's a neat-looking model KR 2S. That looks like a > strake built just in front of the HS, is that what it > is designed for? Do you know if anyone is using them > on a full-size KR? > > The reason I'm interested in using the model is > because I want to incorporate many of the changes > found on Mark Langford's site including another 10" > (he suggests that, his is actually a 6" stretch), > bottom of fuselage shaped to match new airfoil, > increased HS area, widened to either 38 or 40", etc. > > So I'm wondering, even if I can get the dimensions of > a model to mimic the proposed dimensions of a > full-size plane, do you know of any formula to try to > make weight and power also proportionate relative to > the plane's size? > > Might be cheaper and easier just to pay an engineer to > run the numbers for me. > > Also, to everyone else on the board, the answers were > forget the black plane, look for a flop-tube pckup for > inverted, and primer by itself isn't waterproof. > > Actually, Larry Howell suggested that I just roll 180 > every few minutes so the top could cool off while the > bottom is heating up, then roll again. Makes sense to > me... > > Thanks, all. > > Chuck > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:22:41 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: turning engines backwards Message-ID: [svidal@icon.co.za wrote about pulling his engine through, backwards.] Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought I read or heard something that said that certain types of magneto ignitions could be damaged by rotating them backwards. Since my 1835 VW has a mag, I don't do it. Probably no harm for non-magneto engines, but it would seem to me that other things could happen, too; anything that runs in a certain direction would tend to build up a wear ridge (like the rubbing block in a distributor, or a follower, etc.)- which would tend to get knocked off if the thing was counter-rotated. FWIW- another guy I know who runs an 1835 VW with Zenith carb and standard Bosch distributor runs his starting drill exactly like Gary Hinkle described... ignition off/choke on/part throttle/pull a couple of blades through//ignition on/choke off/crack throttle/clear prop! and it starts every time. Actually, he pulls it through until he gets a drip of fuel out the carb throat, then makes it hot and starts it. Oh, and as long as I have the soapbox- I'll spout off about my pet Netiquette peeve: people who don't 'cut' or edit the post they are replying to, but include the whole thing in their reply. What this does is make my KRNet digests about 2/3 'fat and bone' and only 1/3 'meat' (and even the 'meat' is pretty lean sometimes). Then somebody else replies to that post without cutting, and pretty soon you scroll down a big bunch of duplicate text before getting to the next 'real' post. I know it takes a bit more time to highlight and cut unnecessary parts of a post that you're replying to, but it does make the flow of ideas easier to follow and it highlights the part of the post that you are replying to or asking about. So, learn to use the mouse to highlight text; find that 'edit-cut' pulldown, and we'll all get more meat in our digests. Soapbox mode off now. Diving into Dana's foxhole (even though I'm not instrument rated) ;o) Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.geocities.com/taildrags/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************