From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 27 Feb 2001 23:34:04 -0000 Issue 181 Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 3:34 PM krnet Digest 27 Feb 2001 23:34:04 -0000 Issue 181 Topics (messages 4313 through 4342): Used Plans, 51% 4313 by: CS Intercom 4314 by: KMcKen1.aol.com 4316 by: JEHayward.aol.com Re: prop lies 4315 by: David McKelvey Re: Interesting new type KR size type aircraft 4317 by: Robert Stone Re: TYPE 4 ???? 4318 by: Schmidt, Curtis Used Plans, 51%, FSDOs 4319 by: CS 4329 by: Marty Hammersmith 4330 by: CS 4331 by: Gaston Landry Re: slick mag 4316 4320 by: jshays Re: Chutes? (hypothetical) 4321 by: Clay1Pilot.aol.com Re: Chutes? - kinda long, just another opinion 4322 by: Dave and Tina Goodman Laser level 4323 by: Patrick Driscoll Re: Laser level, tool dealers 4324 by: CS Re: Chutes? 4325 by: Clay1Pilot.aol.com BMW engine 4326 by: Peter Nauta 4328 by: Steven Eberhart Airbags in addition to seat belts / BRS systems 4327 by: Peter Nauta 4333 by: Donald Reid 4336 by: Frank Ross 4338 by: gleone 4340 by: Jan Laan 4342 by: Brian Vasseur Alternate choices, Ragwing 4332 by: Frank Ross thread engagement 4334 by: rfarmer Re: Dr Dean Hinge Bolt H 4335 by: rfarmer pitch sensitivity in a kr1 4337 by: Sam O. Walton 4339 by: Ed Janssen 4341 by: doc Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:09:07 -0800 (PST) To: David Taylor , krnet@mailinglists.org From: CS Subject: Used Plans, 51% Message-ID: <20010227030907.3299.qmail@web2301.mail.yahoo.com> Hi David, I went digging around the EAA site last night and saw where as long as all previous owners were amateur the "experimental" category applies. I called EAA this morning to get name of DAR near Chattanooga, the EAA guy said he would email it, still waiting. He also said that if there was an issue (ie, lack of documentation from previous owner) that the decision would be up to the FSDO. On that point he said "Ya won't know till ya ask." Since I can't ask until I buy the project... Anyway, my concern is not with qualifying as experimental, it's that I want the repairman's certificate. I'll have to check some more, but I don't see how I could buy a 95% complete project, do a month or so of glassing, sanding, etc, and still qualify as "the builder." Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:12:53 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KMcKen1@aol.com Subject: Intercom Message-ID: <38.128f1008.27cc7535@aol.com> --part1_38.128f1008.27cc7535_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone tell me if there is a way to wire a 9V battery operated intercom into my 12V system? Thanks, Keith Ft. Myers, FL. --part1_38.128f1008.27cc7535_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:49:05 EST To: KMcKen1@aol.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Intercom Message-ID: In a message dated 2/26/01 8:13:43 PM Mountain Standard Time, KMcKen1@aol.com writes: << Can anyone tell me if there is a way to wire a 9V battery operated intercom into my 12V system? >> Keith, does the literature on it say anything about being able to use 12 volts, or is there an EXTERNAL POWER jack on it? Mine (an off-brand I got for my Challenger UL) had a 9 volt battery in it but an external jack for 12 volts. Checking the circuitry (that I had to trace out) I saw that the 12 volts was regulated down internally to what it needed. You could visit Radio Shack or an electronics parts store and get a 7809 regulator which is a 3 terminal device. Aircraft power goes to the INPUT leg, GROUND goes to one and your 9 volts appears on the third leg and goes to your intercom.... simple. Write me off-list if you have any more questions and I'll be glad to help. Jim Hayward Rapid City, SD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:44:16 -0600 To: , From: "David McKelvey" Subject: RE: KR> prop lies Message-ID: The moral of this story, order your prop at least six weeks before first flight!! -----Original Message----- From: Flymaca711689@cs.com [mailto:Flymaca711689@cs.com] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:05 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> prop lies All this talk of props has been miserable for me. if the manufacture tells you two or three weeks its alie!!!!!!!!!!! give it five to six weeks .their is no since in say who i gave my money to . idid call and ask if the tree was ready to cut down that at least got me the date that there going to ship it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:23:34 -0600 To: "Brian Vasseur" , "gleone" , From: "Robert Stone" Cc: , Subject: Re: KR> Interesting new type KR size type aircraft Message-ID: <001301c0a0c0$7dab09a0$0101a8c0@pavilion> Brian: You say you would like to see this guy succeed, that's a nice thought but what about Steve Horn and the hundreds of other people who sent "this guy" a $400.00 deposit and got nothing, not even a refund. I would like to see him in jail where he belongs. The kit airplane business is the most buyer beware business I know of. There are so many disreputable people who get into the business take as much deposit money as they can get their dishonest hands on and then declare bankrupts. When an honest kit maker comes along he has a hard way to go trying to get started because of the caution and mistrust caused by all of the dishonest ones. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vasseur" To: "gleone" ; Cc: ; Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 8:21 PM Subject: Re: KR> Interesting new type KR size type aircraft > Given BEDE's past history in the aircraft market it's clear that he's a > genius when it comes to aircraft design. Sadly it appears though that he > never learned the business skills to launch a successful aircraft kit and > keep it going. > > Personally I'd like to see this guy succeed. What he should be doing though > is selling his design to an existing successful kit builder and taking a > percentage of the sales. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gleone" > To: > Cc: ; > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:31 AM > Subject: Re: KR> Interesting new type KR size type aircraft > > > > For anyone interested in the newest BD (n) aircraft, let experience and > wisdom > > help guide your way. Here's my experience and the end results. First, I > am not > > suggesting anything in this post. I am only presenting the fact of my > experience > > with the BD-5. People change and learn from failed business practices. > Bede's > > designs have always been ingenious. His business approach has not. Here > is my > > experience. I will mention I kept all my correspondence with Bede > Aircraft as > > well as with the various agencies I contacted to get my money back. I > ordered a > > BD-5 in March, 1974 and sent my $400 deposit. I was customer BD-5D 4679. > Every > > month I received what I euphemistically called "the monthly BD-BS Bomb" > which > > extolled the virtues of the plane and how well it was coming along and, > > by-the-way, send more money. I read all the published reports about the > plane > > and came to the same conclusion as one aviation magazine: there was a > problem > > with the drive system resulting in ungodly vibration to the drive line. > Also, > > their choice of engine was melting down in the mid 90 hour range. > Paragraph 4 of > > the "Purchase Offer/Sales Contract" states, "This Purchase Offer/Sales > contract > > is non-cancellable after acceptance, unless Bede Aircraft fails to begin > > production of the BD-5D by August 1, 1975, or schedules to begin > production > > within a reasonable time thereafter. If Bede Aircraft fails to begin > production > > by August 1, 1975, or schedule production as stated above, the Buyer may > at any > > time before production is scheduled, cancel this contract and his deposit > shall > > be returned to him." (Emphasis mine.) Realizing early on I probably would > never > > see this plane, when that date came and no production date was even > remotely > > visible, I asked for a refund. That was refused. I demanded a refund. > That was > > refused. Phone calls were not returned. At that point, I notified the > > California (where I was living at the time) and Kansas Attorney Generals > (AG). I > > also sent my package of letters, copy of the contract, Bede Corp's > letters, etc., > > to the Federal Trade Commission. Later I called the Kansas Attorney > General, at > > that time Curt Schneider. He informed me he'd received other complaints > from > > around the country and he checked with Bede's bank to see what accounts > were > > active. Under Kansas law, an escrow account was to be maintained to > ensure > > deposits would be refunded. In the Kansas AG's letter to Mr. Bede's > attorney, he > > wrote, "In a letter of December, 1973. you stated that Bede would deposit > > $600,000 in an account entitled 'Bede Aircraft Segregated Customer > Deposits > > Account for BD-5 Project' with the Fourth National Bank and Trust Company > in > > Wichta. The bank would be given the power to refund deposits to > customers. On > > November 6, 1975, I contacted the Fourth National Bank and Trust Company > and was > > informed that Bede had no such account; the only accounts Bede has at this > bank > > are entitled, 'Bede Aircraft Inc.,' and 'Bede Aircraft Payroll'." > (Emphasis > > mine.) Now, after the Kansas AG sent that letter to Bede Aircraft, naming > two > > other complaints from Minnesota and Alaska, I received a check from Bede > Aircraft > > for my deposit of $400. I don't know how many people did not get their > money > > back from Bede, but I remember it wasn't long after that when Bede went > belly > > up. Now, with regards to the current BD project, I would suggest use a > common > > sense approach. Perhaps after all these years he has his business head > screwed > > on straight. Then again, I don't know. As an aside, while flying in the > Air > > Force, I bought a Grumman TR-2 which was a Bede design called the BD-1, I > think. > > If Bede is selling complete planes, well, use wisdom. If he's selling > kits, use > > wisdom again, but remember buying partial kits, if he does go under again, > you've > > not lost as much as you would if you bought an airplane that never saw > > production. Besides, many home builders can complete a plane from the > plans > > alone. > > > > > > > > Horn2004@aol.com wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 2/25/01 8:42:18 PM, ron@jrl-engineering.com writes: > > > > > > << http://www.bd17.com >> > > > > > > I checked it out the other day after reading that he was back to his old > > > tricks. It's an interesting concept. And there is "one" (sucker) born > every > > > minute. I just hope the magazines and other forums turn their backs on > Jim > > > and his new get-flying-quick scheme. He's ripped off so many trusting > folks > > > in his career that I think collectively people ought to let Jim know > that > > > he's not welcome in the experimental world anymore. I never lost any > money to > > > the guy, and he has done some pretty impressive things, but the bottom > line > > > is he is a bald-faced liar with little or no conscience. One of these > days > > > he's going to end up killing somebody who trusted his word. > > > > > > Even if he has issued his own Bill of Rights... > > > > > > Steve Horn > > > horn2004@aol.com > > > Dallas, TX > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: 27 Feb 2001 07:50:00 -0700 To: "GARYKR2@cs.com" , "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Schmidt, Curtis" Subject: RE: KR> TYPE 4 ???? Message-ID: <00057CC1@kaydon.com> Hey Gary, thanks a million for the id page, it helps and Lord knows I need = all the help I can get! Curtis Schmidt -----Original Message----- From: GARYKR2@cs.com [mailto:GARYKR2@cs.com] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:39 PM To: cschmidt@kaydon.com; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> TYPE 4 ???? In a message dated 2/26/01 12:01:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, cschmidt@kaydon.com writes: << The engine has "CV" stamped on it and right above those letters it has "071F" stamped in ink! The engine has fuel injection and a small gold tag that says "Genuine VW remanufactured". >> It was used in a Vanagon, 80 to 83. 2000cc. I will send you the page to ID engines. The book I use is How to Rebuild Your VOLKSWAGEN Air-Cooled Engine. Has all tear down, clean, inspect, rebuild, assemble, run, and trouble shooting= . The only other book I use is Steve Bennett's book. Gary Hinkle (A/P) Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:53:53 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: CS Subject: Used Plans, 51%, FSDOs Message-ID: <20010227145353.14926.qmail@web2302.mail.yahoo.com> Oops, didn't post to board, don't know if anyone else is interested or not... > I am also in the same situation and just have not > got as far as David. I> would love to hear what you guys dig up as I would> like to get the> repairmen's cert. as well but I am looking at a KR2> project that is 97%> done. > Thanks, > Richard > San Jose, Ca > regnell@yahoo.com -------------------------- Richard, I spent most of last night trying to track this down before finally coming up with a definitive answer: "It depends on who ya ask." Apparently it's all in the hands of the FSDO as far as the certificate goes. Some of what I found came from 1997 archives of this board. Apparently some FSDOs routinely put "AP annual required" in the limitations, while others ask "Do you know where your engine's located? Okay, here's your repairman's certificate." Obviously it isn't quite that extreme, but you get the idea...there is nothing set in stone in the FARs (I THINK it's parts 42 and 45, I can't remember right now). Anyway, the "major portion" clause has nothing to do with the certificate, just the classification of the plane (ie, experimental-homebuilt). I'm pretty new to the (serious) homebuilder arena, but apparently the word "Fizz-dough" translates roughly as "God." Kinda makes me want to meet the local FSDO before I decide to move to a new area...oops, too late, closing on the house this Friday...it's got a 30'x30' garage in back...I'm pretty pumped. Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:36:06 -0500 To: CS From: Marty Hammersmith CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Used Plans, 51%, FSDOs Message-ID: <3A9BE586.9E5CAAD1@worldnet.att.net> Are you sure you really want to do this? Do you really want to be on the hook for someone else's composite workmanship? If you do get the repairman's certificate that means you are listed as the builder and that stays with the airplane forever! I'm not afraid of being responsible for an airframe for it's life but it would have to be one I built AND closed out those uninspectable sections. CS wrote: > > Oops, didn't post to board, don't know if anyone else > is interested or not... > > > I am also in the same situation and just have not > > got as far as David. I> would love to hear what you > guys dig up as I would> like to get the> repairmen's > cert. as well but I am looking at a KR2> project that > is 97%> done. > > Thanks, > > Richard > > San Jose, Ca > > regnell@yahoo.com > -------------------------- > Richard, > > I spent most of last night trying to track this down > before finally coming up with a definitive answer: > > "It depends on who ya ask." > > Apparently it's all in the hands of the FSDO as far as > the certificate goes. Some of what I found came from > 1997 archives of this board. Apparently some FSDOs > routinely put "AP annual required" in the limitations, > while others ask "Do you know where your engine's > located? Okay, here's your repairman's certificate." > > Obviously it isn't quite that extreme, but you get the > idea...there is nothing set in stone in the FARs (I > THINK it's parts 42 and 45, I can't remember right > now). > > Anyway, the "major portion" clause has nothing to do > with the certificate, just the classification of the > plane (ie, experimental-homebuilt). > > I'm pretty new to the (serious) homebuilder arena, but > apparently the word "Fizz-dough" translates roughly as > "God." > > Kinda makes me want to meet the local FSDO before I > decide to move to a new area...oops, too late, closing > on the house this Friday...it's got a 30'x30' garage > in back...I'm pretty pumped. > > Chuck > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org -- Marty Hammersmith http://www.geocities.com/mhammersmith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:03:31 -0800 (PST) To: baleco@worldnet.att.net From: CS Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Used Plans, 51%, FSDOs Message-ID: <20010227180331.28904.qmail@web2305.mail.yahoo.com> Hey Marty, >Are you sure you really want to do this? Do you> eally want to be on> the hook for someone else's composite workmanship? ------------------- No. What I WANT is to buy a Spitfire Mk. XIV for me to play in and a Beech Staggerwing for the occassional x-country jaunt. However... Seriously though, I want to be flying within the next year. With a kit from scratch it ain't gonna happen. I don't know if you saw my earlier post about QDKR (Quick n Dirty KR), but if I get a project it will be so I can fly while I build my KR. Then I may sell the first one, I may keep it, I may part it out. Back when I was in the car business I learned that if the body and interior were clean, the motor was usually good. I can't see somebody doing a pi**-poor job on the inside and then showing great craftsmanship on the exterior. If it's bad work, I'll know it. No, it isn't what I prefer, but it's what I see as a workable solution with an acceptable amount of risk. Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:47:30 -0400 To: dc9898@yahoo.com, baleco@worldnet.att.net From: "Gaston Landry" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Used Plans, 51%, FSDOs Message-ID: If you want to get in the air quick, you could always build something from RagWing Aviation... they have a build time of about 350 hours, and the plans are only about $54... assuming about 25 hours/week on building, you'd have it done in 3 1/2 months... then, while you're flying your RagRocket, you can take your time building your kr... :o) Gaston >From: CS >To: baleco@worldnet.att.net >CC: krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> Used Plans, 51%, FSDOs >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:03:31 -0800 (PST) > >Hey Marty, > > >Are you sure you really want to do this? Do you> >eally want to be on> the hook for someone else's >composite workmanship? > >------------------- >No. What I WANT is to buy a Spitfire Mk. XIV for me >to play in and a Beech Staggerwing for the occassional >x-country jaunt. However... > >Seriously though, I want to be flying within the next >year. With a kit from scratch it ain't gonna happen. >I don't know if you saw my earlier post about QDKR >(Quick n Dirty KR), but if I get a project it will be >so I can fly while I build my KR. Then I may sell the >first one, I may keep it, I may part it out. > >Back when I was in the car business I learned that if >the body and interior were clean, the motor was >usually good. I can't see somebody doing a pi**-poor >job on the inside and then showing great craftsmanship >on the exterior. If it's bad work, I'll know it. > >No, it isn't what I prefer, but it's what I see as a >workable solution with an acceptable amount of risk. > >Chuck > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 01 09:05:50 -0600 To: Flymaca711689@cs.com, krnet From: jshays Subject: RE: KR> slick mag 4316 Take a look at Unison's website they have some docs online, also I have had good luck with emailing tech support questions to them as well. http://www.unisonindustries.com/ Regards, Jeff Hays. >===== Original Message From Flymaca711689@cs.com ===== >can somebody give me the gap for the points >on my kr 1834 im setting plugs at 0.16 rec by great planes >ichecked the arcives nothing? > > > > > thanks Mac > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:30:45 EST To: vasseurb@cadvision.com, dc9898@yahoo.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Clay1Pilot@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Chutes? (hypothetical) Message-ID: <4f.7fc5dae.27cd2225@aol.com> --part1_4f.7fc5dae.27cd2225_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's the only reason I want one I know planes are built pretty reliable and are inspected but 1st flight I bet you hear some very odd noises. Parts adjusting and settling in I guess its just as likely for the wing to come off as it is in a 172. probably not. --part1_4f.7fc5dae.27cd2225_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:59:07 -0800 To: , From: "Dave and Tina Goodman" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> Chutes? - kinda long, just another opinion Message-ID: <005201c0a0d6$38a72ee0$4c44a6d1@oemcomputer> Rick makes some good points in his writing, and has the experience to back them up. There are three general conditions that would prompt you to bail out or deploy a BRS: 1. The aircraft is in an unrecoverable departure from controlled flight 2. Catastrophic structural failure that makes the aircraft uncontrollable 3. Catastrophic in-flight fire that can't be extinguished and is threatening to kill you Here are some additional thoughts on this subject. 1. If you depart the airplane, where will it happen? The majority of departures in the KR (and probably general aviation as a whole) are in the takeoff/landing phase, i.e. the approach turn stall or something to that effect. No chance here to get away from the plane and deploy a chute. 2. Catastrophic structural failure. Ever watch those videos from WWII of planes that have a protion of the wing/tail shot off?. Notice how fast they depart controlled flight and cartwheel? If a wing comes off your plane due to any reaason (poor building practice, over-g, fatigue) I submit you WILL NOT be getting out of the plane until the investigators peel your carcass out of the cockpit. Bailing out at this point is not going to happen, so forget about it. 3. Inflight fire. Here is a real problem. If you have a good firewall, you should be able to get to the ground before it becomes airframe critical. Of course, if you really have a fire, Murphy is already working against you and it is probably making your feet warm already. BSR or Chute? I think BSR is the way to go, as you can get close to the ground in short order (idle dive), slow to within limits, then deploy the BSR. a) Minimizes time to on deck, b) Saves airplane. 4. Removing the canopy. If you do this, there will be no turning back. Additionally, it may strike the tail, and take it off the airplane (see # 2 above). Chutes and BSRs are a VERY SERIOUS business. As Rick has pointed out via his test plan, you need to think this out very carefully, not just do what the last Joe did, or say "Gee wiz, I got the money, I think I'll slap a BSR on this baby." Respectfully, Dave "Zipper" Goodman zipperts@whidbey.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:9:38 -0800 To: "KR-POST" From: "Patrick Driscoll" Subject: Laser level Message-ID: <412001222718938120@earthlink.net> For those of you that could not bring up the Heartland America site, copy this and paste it in your browser. I just brought up the site to check on the Laser Level. It was not in the catalog that I received yesterday but it is on the web site. Just type in Laser Level on the search box at their web site. http://heartlandamerica.com/ I copied this address from my browser after I brought the site up, so I know it's good --- Patrick Driscoll --- patrick36@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:29:51 -0800 (PST) To: patrick36@earthlink.net, KR-POST From: CS Subject: Re: KR> Laser level, tool dealers Message-ID: <20010227162951.16850.qmail@web2304.mail.yahoo.com> Here's another online tool dealer that seems to have decent prices. I haven't used them yet so I can't say how they are on service/reliability, but they seem to be worth checking out. http://www.harborfreight.com/ Came across them last night while researching Battlebots...check out the cool night vision scope on the homepage. Some other suppliers I ran across... http://www.sciplus.com/ (surplus) http://www.allelectronics.com/pdfcat.html More surplus, check out the electroluminescent backlight in left column... Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:50:16 EST To: rossy65@home.com, bstarrs@cybertrails.com From: Clay1Pilot@aol.com CC: Clay1Pilot@aol.com, rick@hubka.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Chutes? Message-ID: <7c.12305719.27cd34c8@aol.com> When I brought up the idea of chutes i was thinking airplane chutes I had not thought of personal chutes. How would you get out of the plane in an emergency? what if the plane was in a spin that would get hear to determine which way was out and the fight gravity to get out of the plane naaahhhh I like thr brs chutes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:56:41 +0100 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists. Org" From: "Peter Nauta" Subject: BMW engine Message-ID: Some time ago, I mentioned that the BMW 1100 RS motorcycle engine is being used on Cherry airplanes with great success here in the Netherlands. I mentioned that there would be an article on it in Custom Planes. Anybody saw that article? Anyboday that reads Custom Planes regularly? Groeten, Peter Nauta p.nauta@wanadoo.nl +31(0)6 51411018 Fax: 020 8663552 http://www.fs2000.nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:01:06 -0600 (CST) To: Peter Nauta From: Steven Eberhart cc: "Krnet@Mailinglists. Org" Subject: Re: KR> BMW engine Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Peter Nauta wrote: > Some time ago, I mentioned that the BMW 1100 RS motorcycle engine is being > used on Cherry airplanes with great success here in the Netherlands. I > mentioned that there would be an article on it in Custom Planes. Anybody > saw that article? Anyboday that reads Custom Planes regularly? > > Groeten, > > Peter Nauta > p.nauta@wanadoo.nl > +31(0)6 51411018 > Fax: 020 8663552 > http://www.fs2000.nl Saw the article and was impressed. Especially since I am building a Cherry. I have always thought the BMW engine would be a good candidate for small planes like the KR, Cherry, Europa, etc. I won't have my scanner back for another week but would be glad to scan it for you then. Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:58:26 +0100 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists. Org" From: "Peter Nauta" Subject: Airbags in addition to seat belts / BRS systems Message-ID: While we are talking safety, has anybody ever considered putting an airbag system in a KR2-S as a matter of more protection, additional to seat belts? Groeten, Peter Nauta p.nauta@wanadoo.nl +31(0)6 51411018 Fax: 020 8663552 http://www.fs2000.nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:48:32 -0500 To: From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Airbags in addition to seat belts / BRS systems Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010227144012.009f3cf0@pop.erols.com> --=====================_6727888==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:58 PM 2/27/2001 +0100, Peter Nauta wrote: >While we are talking safety, has anybody ever considered putting an airbag >system in a KR2-S as a matter of more protection, additional to seat belts? At least one other person suggested this to me in an off-network conversation. Speaking as a professional engineer and homebuilder, this is a really bad idea unless you have several million dollars to invest for design, testing, and installation. Air bags add energy into the crash area. If they are done improperly, then one of two things will happen. (1)The airbag impact can kill you even if the crash impact does not or (2) the air bag will deflate before your body strikes it. In this case, you have carried extra weight that did you no good. There is ABSOLUTELY no way to eyeball engineer an airbag installation. The design calcs need to be tested extensively in simulated crashes. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org --=====================_6727888==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:02:41 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Airbags in addition to seat belts / BRS systems Message-ID: <20010227220241.20893.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> Peter, The last thing I need is the thought of an airbag inflating accidently while I'm on short final in a crosswind. Also, the KRW plant in Phoenix which makes the explosive part of automotive airbags has a real bad history of plant explosions. Don't think I want something like that in my plane, or my workshop. Besides, Peter, there is at least one "Windbag"in almost every KR I've seen. That's probably enough... ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:29:37 -0700 To: Frank Ross From: gleone CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Airbags in addition to seat belts / BRS systems Message-ID: <3A9C2A51.1D237869@tritel.net> Yeah, but think of it this way, if that thing DID go off in flight, you'd sure get a bang out of it! Frank Ross wrote: > Peter, > The last thing I need is the thought of an airbag > inflating accidently while I'm on short final in a > crosswind. > Also, the KRW plant in Phoenix which makes the > explosive part of automotive airbags has a real bad > history of plant explosions. > Don't think I want something like that in my plane, or > my workshop. > Besides, Peter, there is at least one "Windbag"in > almost every KR I've seen. That's probably enough... > > ===== > Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:38:56 -0800 To: Donald Reid , From: Jan Laan Subject: Re: KR> Airbags in addition to seat belts / BRS systems Message-ID: <98330628801@popper-1.vancouver.ipapp.com> At 02:48 PM 2/27/01 -0500, Donald Reid wrote: >At 05:58 PM 2/27/2001 +0100, Peter Nauta wrote: >>While we are talking safety, has anybody ever considered putting an airbag >>system in a KR2-S as a matter of more protection, additional to seat belts? > >At least one other person suggested this to me in an off-network >conversation. Speaking as a professional engineer and homebuilder, this is >a really bad idea unless you have several million dollars to invest for >design, testing, and installation. > >Air bags add energy into the crash area. If they are done improperly, then >one of two things will happen. (1)The airbag impact can kill you even if >the crash impact does not or (2) the air bag will deflate before your body >strikes it. In this case, you have carried extra weight that did you no good. > >Who says that you have to use an automotive airbag system? It occurs to me that in a plane you would see the impact coming long before you strike ; you would hence have the time to pump it up with either a pump system or with a CO2 cartridge which' flow can be regulated. You then inflate to the desired level of firmness and comfort ( sic) and brace for the impact. An explosive airbag system as in a car would be dangerous beyond belief; although it might be a good way to remove the plane from around you quickly if you are wearing a parachute. Interesting thought. What I have missed in the discussion on chute deployment is the following: 1) Flight into weather over hostile terrain ( remember Ken's mishap ?) 2) Engine failure over hostile terrain. Jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:34:02 -0700 To: "Donald Reid" , , "Jan Laan" From: "Brian Vasseur" Subject: Re: KR> Airbags in addition to seat belts / BRS systems Message-ID: <005b01c0a115$c4e1ee60$2c45e4cf@C5477> Both of these would probably be bad choices for a chute. Generally if you have control over the airplane then the best thing to do is fly it. The chute doesn't give you a pillow soft landing, so expect that you'll ruin your airplane. If your expectation of a chute is that it's better than dropping like a rock then you're using it for the right purpose. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Laan" To: "Donald Reid" ; Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:38 PM Subject: Re: KR> Airbags in addition to seat belts / BRS systems > At 02:48 PM 2/27/01 -0500, Donald Reid wrote: > >At 05:58 PM 2/27/2001 +0100, Peter Nauta wrote: > >>While we are talking safety, has anybody ever considered putting an airbag > >>system in a KR2-S as a matter of more protection, additional to seat belts? > > > >At least one other person suggested this to me in an off-network > >conversation. Speaking as a professional engineer and homebuilder, this is > >a really bad idea unless you have several million dollars to invest for > >design, testing, and installation. > > > >Air bags add energy into the crash area. If they are done improperly, then > >one of two things will happen. (1)The airbag impact can kill you even if > >the crash impact does not or (2) the air bag will deflate before your body > >strikes it. In this case, you have carried extra weight that did you no > good. > > > >Who says that you have to use an automotive airbag system? > > It occurs to me that in a plane you would see the impact coming long before > you strike ; you would hence have the time to pump it up with either a pump > system or with a CO2 cartridge which' flow can be regulated. You then > inflate to the desired level of firmness and comfort ( sic) and brace for > the impact. > An explosive airbag system as in a car would be dangerous beyond belief; > although it might be a good way to remove the plane from around you quickly > if you are wearing a parachute. Interesting thought. > > What I have missed in the discussion on chute deployment is the following: > > 1) Flight into weather over hostile terrain ( remember Ken's mishap ?) > > 2) Engine failure over hostile terrain. > > Jan > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:01:28 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Alternate choices, Ragwing Message-ID: <20010227190128.22578.qmail@web4704.mail.yahoo.com> If you want to get in the air quick,build something from RagWing Aviation... > Gaston Gaston, Where ya been? Snowed in? Good to hear from you. Ragwing is a great suggestion. I have their parasol plans and it is a nice plane. Also Monte Miller does their newsletter. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:17:07 -0500 To: From: "rfarmer" Subject: thread engagement Message-ID: <004f01c0a102$a49af880$5a4562d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C0A0D8.BB2F6740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From a posting in the last day or so I thought there might be some = people who whould like to know this info. hope it helps someone. to get full strength from your fasteners you need 1 & 1/2 times the = major dia. or ,3/8 engagement, for a 1/4 dia. bolt. ie 1 / 28 =3D.0357 = .375 / .0357 =3D 10.5 threads works for all dia. just use the maj. dia. & thread pitch. Bob Farmer ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C0A0D8.BB2F6740-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:30:49 -0500 To: , , From: "rfarmer" Subject: Re: KR> Dr Dean Hinge Bolt H Message-ID: <012101c0a104$8ec39f60$5a4562d8@oemcomputer> From a posting in the last day or so I thought there might be some people who whould like to know this info. hope it helps someone. to get full strength from your fasteners you need 1 & 1/2 times the major dia. or ,3/8 engagement, for a 1/4 dia. bolt. ie 1 / 28 =.0357 .375 / .0357 = 10.5 threads works for all dia. just use the maj. dia. & thread pitch. Bob Farmer -----Original Message----- From: GARYKR2@cs.com To: donreid@erols.com ; krnet@mailinglists.org Date: Sunday, February 25, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: Re: KR> Dr Dean Hinge Bolt H >In a message dated 2/25/01 9:53:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, >donreid@erols.com writes: > ><< I think that lock > washers are NOT airworthy, with or without locktite >> > > LOCK NUT !!!!!!! LOCK NUT !!!!!!!!!!! LOCK NUT !!!!!!!!!!! > Gary Hinkle (A/P) MIddletown, Pa. > garykr2@cs.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:44:56 -0600 To: From: "Sam O. Walton" Subject: pitch sensitivity in a kr1 Message-ID: <000501c0a108$74458fa0$47d602cf@cst.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C0A0BB.16726C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings a kr2 are very pitch sensitive. How about kr1`s?? ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C0A0BB.16726C60-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:25:00 -0600 To: "Sam O. Walton" , From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR> pitch sensitivity in a kr1 Message-ID: <006b01c0a10c$21c964a0$020010ac@dad> Sam, Probably the biggest differest you'll notice is that the KR-1 ailerons are more sensitive than the KR-2. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam O. Walton" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:44 PM Subject: KR> pitch sensitivity in a kr1 Greetings a kr2 are very pitch sensitive. How about kr1`s?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:21:53 -0800 To: From: "doc" Subject: Re: KR> pitch sensitivity in a kr1 Message-ID: <005701c0a12d$387a18e0$cac62cc7@jbrennan> My group just received a KR-2, 50% completed as a donation. We intend to finish it and was wondering what the best engine installation would be (completed firewall foward). We're looking for the quick completion considering performance/effeceincy factors. Please suggest people contacts, web sites, etc. prefer the SE. Thanks, 'Doc' ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************