From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 3 Mar 2001 13:39:49 -0000 Issue 183 Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001 6:40 AM krnet Digest 3 Mar 2001 13:39:49 -0000 Issue 183 Topics (messages 4373 through 4390): Fwd:1834V/W for sale 4373 by: Paul Gangemi Great FAQ site 4374 by: Frank Ross Wierd stuff going on here... 4375 by: Frank Ross 4376 by: Scott Stanton 4377 by: Frank Ross Tail design 4378 by: Rex T. Ellington 4384 by: KR2616TJ.aol.com builders as thinkers 4379 by: David McKelvey Optional Sling Seat ... 4380 by: Albert Pecoraro 4381 by: Horn2004.aol.com 4385 by: Albert Pecoraro 4386 by: Frank Ross 4388 by: virgnvs.juno.com Flame invitation 4382 by: Dave 4383 by: EagleGator.aol.com KR website 4387 by: Paul Gangemi 4389 by: Donald Reid Re: Sling Seat, distance... 4390 by: Albert Pecoraro Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:25:12 -0500 (EST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: paulwasp@webtv.net (Paul Gangemi) Subject: Fwd:1834V/W for sale Message-ID: <7900-3A9E69D8-582@storefull-167.iap.bryant.webtv.net> --WebTV-Mail-3072-334 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit The 1834 Hapi engine pictured below (60 hp), is for sale. Interested buyers can e-mail me off list. I'm changing to either a corvair conversion or a more powerful V/W. Asking $1600, ( I paid $ 1800 for it). That will cover shipping costs for you. It has all the accessories included,(less motor mount). PLG --WebTV-Mail-3072-334 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101-12.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.49) by storefull-168.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by mailsorter-101-12.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) with ESMTP id RAA03717 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from edandlisas (1Cust66.tnt4.erie.pa.da.uu.net [63.14.126.66]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01778; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01bff6ad$629d14e0$427e0e3f@edandlisas> From: "maxandlisa" To: Cc: "Paul \"Dad\" 1-Gangemi" Subject: paul's engine Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:58:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFF672.B500DAE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFF672.B500DAE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01BFF672.B500DAE0" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01BFF672.B500DAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi, my pop wanted me to send uthis pix of his vw engine ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01BFF672.B500DAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

hi, my pop wanted me to send uthis pix of his vw = engine

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UTuABHQ5/wA8UUVotFdFqjCSs0VPs77x8v0OanjstwOSx442iiinKpKxlHCUl0NDToYUk5jBYHGT zzXRLPtONvGOBmiiuao7vU1nTjHRItwXYCgkdOc1pAkpuXHTNFFYvQ5qsUnoVbzWIbAxI6MzSdMY 6VbguYr62WaN8Bux6596KK1nTXs1LqcUm+exLHbA8g5FW4l4IB470UVnFWFJlyyuJEkWJmbYx69h W5LqtvbssAycYGQOKKK9GjJuF2ck4pysQrqaNO8cihecKexFW5DGkPmKMgDdkUUV0GL0MybVELFO d2OGAyBWfeFr5F3YwvOKKKxqVGnZF8iSuURAzq0RAPGMEVQTKyhFGEAwBjG0g9DRRWMtmOL1Ooi/ 1YB9KdkdlWiisnsaXP/Z ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFF672.B500DAE0-- --WebTV-Mail-3072-334-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:29:51 -0800 (PST) To: krnet From: Frank Ross Subject: Great FAQ site Message-ID: <20010301172951.11191.qmail@web4705.mail.yahoo.com> First, Thank you Manager Bill for your recent posts. Also, just found some VERY helpful web-sites all of us should visit: Homebuilt Frequently Asked Questions Page http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm Jim�s Checklist for Inspecting Homebuilts http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/checklist.htm The first one contains links to regulations and pages required for homebuilders. It answers many questions I see posted on this net all the time. The second is a checklist he uses to inspect home-built projects. Copy it. It is very thorough and will help guide you through your project. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:49:58 -0800 (PST) To: krnet From: Frank Ross Subject: Wierd stuff going on here... Message-ID: <20010301174958.3067.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> Anybody know what happened to my last post? Got a lot of stuff at the bottom that wasn't there when I posted. When I hit "Reply All" it came up in my message box without the wierd stuff ( see below) --- Frank Ross wrote: > First, > Thank you Manager Bill for your recent posts. Also, > just found some VERY helpful web-sites all of us > should visit: > Homebuilt Frequently Asked Questions Page > http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm > > Jim�s Checklist for Inspecting Homebuilts > http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/checklist.htm > > The first one contains links to regulations and > pages > required for homebuilders. It answers many questions > I > see posted on this net all the time. > The second is a checklist he uses to inspect > home-built projects. Copy it. It is very thorough > and > will help guide you through your project. > > > > ===== > Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:17:42 -0800 (PST) To: Frank Ross , krnet From: Scott Stanton Subject: Re: KR> Wierd stuff going on here... Message-ID: <20010301181742.13492.qmail@web11901.mail.yahoo.com> Frank, If by "wierd stuff" you mean this: > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > then I can help. The info about yahoo get added on to all messages that are sent from the yahoo mail service. A lot of places that give you free mail do this. You can find one on the bottom of this message since I use yahoo too. If I sent you an email from my wife's netzero address you will get a similar message from netzero. All the krnet information is added by the list server as a reminder of the email addresses used for sending mail to the list, subscribing and unsubscribing. It is supposed to keep people form asking how to unsubscribe, but it doesn't always work ;-). If you were asking about other wierd stuff then you need to be more specific about which wierd stuff you mean. Scott Stanton KR2S dreamer ..... still! Wake Forest NC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:33:12 -0800 (PST) To: krnet From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Wierd stuff going on here... Message-ID: <20010301183312.9182.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> > Frank, > If you were asking about other wierd stuff then you > need to be more specific about which wierd stuff you > mean. > Scott Stanton Scott, Others, No, I expect to see that. It was sort of like chinese/ffff/ chinese/ffff aes12/45378/xxxx chinese/fff chinese/fffaes12/45378/xxxx chinese/fff chinese/fffaes12/45378/xxxx aes12/45378/xxxx chinese/fff chinese/fffaes12/45378/xxxx chinese/fff and it started right in the middle of my last paragraph. I don't have an exact copy of it because it went away when I went to write my note to the net about it. It did have the word "chinese" and other words I don't recall and series of letters, numbers and slashes, etc in it. The Yahoo and KRnet posting information WAS NOT at the bottom anywhere. Maybe my computer or server hiccupped. If it didn't happen to anyone else, I'm sorry I used up the space. Thanks ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 19:45:53 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Rex T. Ellington" Subject: Tail design Message-ID: <3A9EFB51.65CE2A1A@telepath.com> Friday greetings netters. My first offering on being back aboard earned me a rather vulgar message from one individual, but I am continuing anyway. Back in '98 M. Mims reported that he ran KR2S data through John Roncz's spreadsheets, with the disclosure that the horiz. tail needed 2.5 sq. ft. more area. Others have echoed the need. So, I've done the following: 1. Used the full 73 in. length of the kit spar stock. 2. Moved the root rib about 1.5 in forward from RR plans, which decreases the aileron/stab ratio. 3. Used a Hershey Bar stabilizer shape, with result of adding 141 sq. in. each side. 4. Used a 93006 basic symmetrical airfoil shape. 5. Let the aileron spar extend 1.5 in. beyond the stab. spar to contain the tip counter balance weights. 6. The result is an aileron/total tail ratio of .37, compared to a plans ratio of .49, and graphical calculations of classics: P51 = .37, Spit = .42, Mosquito = .46, Zero = .27, FW = .41, ME 109 = .35, F4U = .52, and F6F = .45. Note the higher values of the last two for low speed control for carrier landings in those days. 7. One compromise: eyeball taper of aileron ribs (except for inboard) as they shorten, which will distort the 6% airfoil. Comments ?? Rex Ellington rtecg@telepath.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:42:39 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KR2616TJ@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Tail design Message-ID: <5f.1198df48.27d0ef3f@aol.com> --part1_5f.1198df48.27d0ef3f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03/01/2001 8:56:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, rtecg@telepath.com writes: > Back in '98 M. Mims reported that he ran KR2S data through John Roncz's > spreadsheets, > with the disclosure that the horiz. tail needed 2.5 sq. ft. more area. > Others have echoed > Here, here.....................Rex you have addressed an area of inadequacy that is well documented in aeronautical publications. The stab area of the KR2 & 2S is well short of the optimal minimal surface area. Remember, there was absolutely no engineering done in coming up the stab in the plans, it was just a WAG......................heck, it looks like a stab. Sure it will work but it is simple to address this inadequacy. Increasing the stab area is the way to go. Go to my website under tail, now that's a real tail............carbon fiber too:-) Dana Overall 2000 KR Gathering host Richmond, KY mailto:kr2616tj@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7085/ --part1_5f.1198df48.27d0ef3f_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:14:27 -0600 To: "krnet" From: "David McKelvey" Subject: builders as thinkers Message-ID: Netters, Sorry if I ruffle some feathers but I've seen some crazy idea's floated here. I'm not saying to stop floating them, but I know what kind of stuff people put in their airplanes, and I would like to urge you to to be VERY carefull about ANY changes to the plans, unless you're an engineer or ya happen to know one (hi Walt). When you put anything in your craft, think to yourself... "How can this thing fail and try and kill me?! These are airplanes we're building, not cars. An inadvertant airbag deployment in flight can execute your life insurance!! Ejecting a canopy in flight, ...can you say decappitation? The war is over, stay in you're plane, and fly it to the ground best you can. If you're thinking of a BSR, check prices before you apply too many brain cells to it, one big enough for a KR ain't cheap! Build your plane to plans, making carefull changes to suit your needs, and most important, KEEP IT SIMPLE!!! It's not an F16. BTW I've been told Ragwings are not for the first time builder, and be weary of anyone boasting a 350 hr build time of a plans built plane. Please flame me direct at: davmck@witty.com dave A&P ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:12:08 -0500 To: "kr2s group" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Optional Sling Seat ... Message-ID: <003801c0a2ce$f4ae4c00$4bd4b23f@steelcase.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0A2A5.09E0B9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Slingheads, I've been thinking about seat options for the KR and I recall seeing = pictures of a GP-4 (builder Jack Yoder?) who designed his seat frames = using metal tubing (either 6061T6 or 4130, not quite sure). The seat = bottom and backrest were "looped" using a thick rope. The orientation of = the rope was front to back and looped around the tubing with what = appeared to be a square knot.=20 Is anyone familiar with this method? It is like building a hammock = around metal. It seems like it would be a decent alternative to a sling = seat, and light weight too. I can imagine how strong it would be if the = rope were cross-hatched or braided (over-under, like BID cloth).=20 Just thinking out loud. Comments to the net please.=20 Thanks. Albert ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0A2A5.09E0B9C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:27:16 EST To: gryphonflier@earthlink.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Horn2004@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Optional Sling Seat ... Message-ID: In a message dated 3/1/01 10:09:39 PM, gryphonflier@earthlink.net writes: <> Yes, it is like a hammock, or better yet, a glorified lawn chair. It's a simple metal frame made of welded tubing, then webbing is used. It's very light, but I doubt it's very crashworthy. I have a complete set of GP-4 plans and could dig up the info. if you are going to pursue this option, but I would recommend you stick with the sling as shown in the plans, or kind of follow what Mark Langford did. A simple mod like this tube seat could potentially cost you lots of hours in redesign getting it to fit in a KR. Tony Bingelis also has some drawings of similar seats in one of his books. I'd start there first. Steve Horn horn2004@aol.com Dallas, Tejas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:23:44 -0500 To: From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Re: KR> Optional Sling Seat ... Message-ID: <001c01c0a31c$03151920$e1d1b23f@steelcase.com> > In a message dated 3/1/01 10:09:39 PM, gryphonflier@earthlink.net writes: > > < seat frames using metal tubing (either 6061T6 or 4130, not quite sure). The > seat bottom and backrest were "looped" using a thick rope. The orientation of > the rope was front to back and looped around the tubing with what appeared to > be a square knot. > > > Is anyone familiar with this method? It is like building a hammock around > metal.>> > > Yes, it is like a hammock, or better yet, a glorified lawn chair. It's a > simple metal frame made of welded tubing, then webbing is used. It's very > light, but I doubt it's very crashworthy. I have a complete set of GP-4 plans > and could dig up the info. if you are going to pursue this option, but I > would recommend you stick with the sling as shown in the plans, or kind of > follow what Mark Langford did. A simple mod like this tube seat could > potentially cost you lots of hours in redesign getting it to fit in a KR. > Tony Bingelis also has some drawings of similar seats in one of his books. > I'd start there first. > > Steve Horn > horn2004@aol.com > Dallas, Tejas Steve, Thanks for the reply. For my own personal reasons, one of the issues I have with the seat design, whether it is a sling seat or a bench seat, is that it places me too far back from the controls and rudder pedals. I'm only 5'4", so I would ideally like to have a seat that's adjustable to some degree. In all honesty, I can't see myself flying the KR-2Scomfortably with 12" of pillows behind my back. That's why I have been considering seat designs deifferent than the sling seat arrangement. My issue isn't with the crash-worthiness of the sling seat, but rather a personal comfort issue. If I use the sling seat it will still place the backrest too far back for my own good. The seating arrangement I am considering is to have a metal tube frame mounted to metal rails between the spars. Take care. Albert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 05:44:12 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Optional Sling Seat ... Message-ID: <20010302134412.2559.qmail@web4702.mail.yahoo.com> Albert, For the sake of simplicity and safety, I think I would avoid the basket-weave approach. Stuff falls down in there when you're flying, pencils, charts, etc. Also harder to keep clean. I really liked the seat back on Bill Kirkland's 150. That concept could be used both on bottom and back. Good luck ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:22:25 -0500 To: gryphonflier@earthlink.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Optional Sling Seat ... Message-ID: <20010302.100733.-167657.0.virgnvs@juno.com> lIGHT SEAT OPTION FROM rr IS GOOD, vIRG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:54:05 +1300 To: From: "Dave" Cc: Subject: Flame invitation Message-ID: <002801c0a2f6$e4abe920$b09560cb@e2u4f6> ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0A363.4CC76680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, thats got to be one of the most sensible statements I have seen = posted for a long time. My KR-2S has done allmost 600hrs and I am glad to say it was all = achieved without air bags,canopy blow offs or ejection seats and = parachutes. Been flying since 1979 and have had three genuine tin can = forced landings and am still here and fighting fit. The rule to survive = is to FLY THE PLANE. This might sound a little Me Too but some of the recent posts appear to = be getting out of control with their supposed life saving gear. When it does go wrong the more simple the systems the easier it is to = concentrate on flying the plane down and the better your chances of = avoiding scratching the paintwork. WELL DONE DAVE A/P David J Stuart Email fly@paradise.net.nz http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~fly ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0A363.4CC76680-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 07:29:19 EST To: From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Re: KR> Flame invitation Message-ID: ------_Part_3a9f921f-020a-3b73-010203040506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------_Part_3a9f921f-020a-3b73-010203040506 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from web50.aolmail.aol.com (web50.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.11]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 07:28:46 -0500 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 07:28:46 EST From: EagleGator@aol.com Subject:Re: KR> Flame invitation To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: At the risk of another "me too", my comments regarding emergency recovery of aircraft and pilot apply only to the higher-risk flight test environments where you may be subjecting yourself and your airplane to unique situations you wouldn't see in your normal day-to-day flying. As I recommended, if you have a problem, maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation, and take the appropriate action. In the worst case for daily flight operations, the appropriate action is more likely to be to prepare for an emergency landing. Cheers, Rick Junkin EagleGator@aol.com St. Charles, MO In a message dated Fri, 2 Mar 2001 3:58:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Dave" writes: << Well, thats got to be one of the most sensible statements I have seen posted for a long time. My KR-2S has done allmost 600hrs and I am glad to say it was all achieved without air bags,canopy blow offs or ejection seats and parachutes. Been flying since 1979 and have had three genuine tin can forced landings and am still here and fighting fit. The rule to survive is to FLY THE PLANE. This might sound a little Me Too but some of the recent posts appear to be getting out of control with their supposed life saving gear. When it does go wrong the more simple the systems the easier it is to concentrate on flying the plane down and the better your chances of avoiding scratching the paintwork. WELL DONE DAVE A/P David J Stuart Email fly@paradise.net.nz http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~fly >> ------_Part_3a9f921f-020a-3b73-010203040506-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:03:57 -0500 (EST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: paulwasp@webtv.net (Paul Gangemi) Subject: KR website Message-ID: <12014-3A9FB65D-60@storefull-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I wonder what happened to our >fly-kr.com< site? I keep getting site unknown. Anybody else having this problem? PLG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 16:55:18 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> KR website Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010302165453.009faec0@pop.erols.com> --=====================_770663==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I wonder what happened to our >fly-kr.com< site? I keep getting site >unknown. Anybody else having this problem? You may want to try http://krnet.org/ instead. --=====================_770663==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 08:41:47 -0500 To: "CS" , "kr2s group" From: "Albert Pecoraro" Subject: Re: Sling Seat, distance... Message-ID: <000e01c0a3e7$d7025100$d4d1b23f@steelcase.com> > So what I would do is go ahead and build the KR either > to plans or else use Mark Langford's suggestion that > the widest point of fuse should be at shoulder, ie, > BEHIND the leading edge of the wing. I would go ahead > and put the bulkhead (for turtledeck) in at the > standard place. Then I would put my mods in over the > standard framework/configuration, ie, if I wanted my > seat farther forward I would build a seat assembly > that rested on a standard configuration, rather than > moving the bulkhead to accommodate the "custom" seat. Chuck, Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the feedback. Regarding the framework/configuration of my KR-2S ... all the longerons, vertical & horizontal cross-members, bulkheads, spar locations, etc. are located according to plans. As far as the seat is concerned, the plans indicate to build the seat between the spars. The end result is that the seat area (i.e. where your butt sits! ;-) is 24-25 inches, and the backrest is 17 inches with a 40 degree rearward tilt (in my case). So, imagine building a "bench" 38" wide, 25" deep with a backrest that is 17" high tilted back 40 degrees, and that would be the "seat" of my KR-2S. If I were to sit in this "seat" in the KR-2S (with my back against the backrest) I can neither reach the pedals nor see over the instrument panel! ;-) Not only that, but my knees are well behind the forward spar - idealistically, the bend of your knees should be right over the forward spar. Thus, if I adjust my position in the seat such that the bend in my knees is over the center spar, I am now substantially forward of the backrest. The only way I can minimize this gap is to put in a lot of seat cushions. This is what I was trying to avoid. As far as the modification I made to widen the fuselage, based on my height (or lack of it! ;-) the widest point is where my shoulders would be, assuming I am sitting at the correct location (i.e. where I can reach the pedals and the bend of my knees is over the forward spar). Thanks. Take care. Albert ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************