From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 8 May 2001 02:30:54 -0000 Issue 219 Date: Monday, May 07, 2001 7:31 PM krnet Digest 8 May 2001 02:30:54 -0000 Issue 219 Topics (messages 5221 through 5248): KR materials list 5221 by: larry flesner 5222 by: Mark Langford Thank You 5223 by: Bill Miller 5224 by: Mark Langford New Photos 5225 by: Mark Jones 5229 by: Frank Ross Lightweight bucket seats 5226 by: Serge F. VIDAL Alternator wiring 5227 by: Serge F. VIDAL 5235 by: Serge F. VIDAL Re: Epoxy - Fiberglass Working 5228 by: HEATH, DANIEL R 5231 by: Steven Eberhart 5234 by: larry flesner 5246 by: Ron Eason Franco's Website 5230 by: Aripo Re Fiberglassing 5232 by: Laheze.aol.com WAF bolts, layups 5233 by: shannon spurgeon KR2 FOR SALE 5236 by: Flyer2mc.aol.com Lightening strike protection? 5237 by: POND CARTER 5248 by: Ross R. Youngblood Re: N6399U 5238 by: Ross R. Youngblood Re: Reminder (please do not take offense) 5239 by: Ross R. Youngblood Re: Ellison EFI-2 5240 by: Ross R. Youngblood Re: Fuel pump 5241 by: Ross R. Youngblood Engine Photos 5242 by: Ross R. Youngblood Re: fiberglass and epoxy 5243 by: Ross R. Youngblood '97 Wicks Catalog Scans 5244 by: Ross R. Youngblood 2001 Gathering 5245 by: Ross R. Youngblood Long Winded Email 5247 by: Ross R. Youngblood Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 20:48:51 -0500 To: "Bill Miller" , From: larry flesner Subject: KR materials list Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010506204851.0086f100@pop3.norton.antivirus> Netters, Does anyone have an old Wick's catalog that had a COMPLETE listing of everything needed that could scan it an post it somewhere? Might be a good resource. I might be able to find an old catalog but don't have a scaner. It was a two or three page listing in the catalog. Larry Flesner +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= At 06:00 PM 5/6/01 -0400, Bill Miller wrote: > I have been looking over my kr2 plans...and trying to estimate about how > much material is required. It gives the spruce list, but that is all. My >questions are... 1. about how many 24x48 sheets of 2" foam is required for >the tail assembly? 2. how many 24x48 sheets of 1" foam is required for >the wing assemblies? 3. how many yards of 5.85oz fiberglass cloth is >required? about how many gal. of epoxy? 4x8 sheets of 3/32 ply is >required for the fuse? i appreciate any replies.....have to work out the >budget so i can get this bird started! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 21:03:27 -0500 To: "Bill Miller" , From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> KR materials list Message-ID: <002c01c0d699$e84bdc80$561cf618@600athlon> Larry Flesner wrote: > Does anyone have an old Wick's catalog that had a COMPLETE > listing of everything needed that could scan it an post it > somewhere? Might be a good resource. Oh, why not... http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr_pl1.gif http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kr_pl2.gif Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 22:06:04 -0400 To: From: "Bill Miller" Subject: Thank You Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C0D678.BEB18B20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0055_01C0D678.BEB18B20" ------=_NextPart_001_0055_01C0D678.BEB18B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Once again Mark Langford comes through! Mark, thanks ever so = much.....what would we do without you! Thanks to all for responding. Bill ------=_NextPart_001_0055_01C0D678.BEB18B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
  Once again Mark Langford comes through! Mark, thanks ever so = much.....what would we do without you!
 
Thanks to all for responding.
 
Bill
------=_NextPart_001_0055_01C0D678.BEB18B20-- ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C0D678.BEB18B20-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 21:26:23 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Thank You Message-ID: <003801c0d69d$1c32e180$561cf618@600athlon> ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0D673.331CC340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill Miller wrote: >Once again Mark Langford comes through! Mark, thanks ever so = much.....what would we do without you!< Well, if nothing else, y'all would probably socialize a lot more... Really though, to answer your previous question, if you're really on a = budget and want to order a little at a time, just lay out the plans and = start figuring. You definitely want to order all the spruce and large = plywood at one time though, because it's going to have to be shipped by = truck, and you don't want to have to do that more than once. As for = foam, you can probably buy huge 4x8 blocks of the stuff at whatever = thickness you request from an insulation dealer for a small fraction of = the cost, and pick it up in your truck. Look for something called = Trymer 2000. That's what my whole plane is made of. Oh, here's another picture to get you fired up. ( = http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/01050403_low.jpg ). It's Troy's plane last Friday, doing over 200 mph, I'm guessing. I = don't know about you guys, but I'm fired up. Finishing up wiring and = contemplating cowlings, at the moment. Made my first layup this year = today. A carbon fiber fairing for the tail light, similar to the one on = Bobby Muses plane... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0D673.331CC340-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 21:41:44 -0500 To: CorvAIRCRAFT , KR-Net From: Mark Jones Subject: New Photos Message-ID: <3AF60B68.1A996A3B@execpc.com> Hello All, Added three new photos of how my engine sits as of right now. These were taken right after the rear starter test run today. First three photos on my web page. http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 06:31:07 -0700 (PDT) To: KR-Net From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> New Photos Message-ID: <20010507133107.10974.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com> Congratulations Mark, That's beautiful work. You're moving right along. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 08:09:36 +0200 To: From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: Lightweight bucket seats Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0D6CD.0E98AB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow! I did not expect so much interest for my low-tech seats! OK, I will make pictures and post them during the week. Serge VIDAL Johannesburg ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0D6CD.0E98AB60-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 08:09:38 +0200 To: From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: Alternator wiring Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0D6CD.0FB47BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I entirely re-wired my KR2 with MIL-Spec wire and connectors. Being clueless with electricity, I tried to replicate the existing wiring. I just modified the accessories distribution. I obviously did something wrong in the process, since now the alternator doesn't work any more. I would like to understand something. * There is a light bulb, whose function, I am told, is to "initiate" the alternator (when you put power on, the bulb lights; as soon as the alternator is running, the bulb goes off). How should that bulb be wired? * What is the correct way to connect the alternator to the battery? * What exactly should I connect to the grounding point? (Which is on the firewall) Serge VIDAL Johannesburg ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0D6CD.0FB47BA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 23:15:18 +0200 To: , From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: RE: KR> Alternator wiring Message-ID: Virgg, Let me be clear: I haven't got the plans! I bought that KR2 in flying condition, from its original builder. The plans were not part of the deal. At that time, six months ago, I would not have thought that I would end up modifying so much stuff, so I did not pay too much attention to it. But you've got a point. Maybe I should try and negotiate the plans with the previous owner. -----Original Message----- From: virgnvs@juno.com [mailto:virgnvs@juno.com] Sent: 07 May, 2001 7:44 PM To: svidal@icon.co.za Subject: Re: KR> Alternator wiring Isn't this covered in the plans? Virgg On Mon, 7 May 2001 08:09:38 +0200 "Serge F. VIDAL" writes: > I entirely re-wired my KR2 with MIL-Spec wire and connectors. Being > clueless with electricity, I tried to replicate the existing wiring. > I just > modified the accessories distribution. > > I obviously did something wrong in the process, since now the > alternator > doesn't work any more. > > I would like to understand something. > > * There is a light bulb, whose function, I am told, is > to > "initiate" the alternator (when you put power on, the bulb lights; > as soon > as the alternator is running, the bulb goes off). How should that > bulb be > wired? > > > * What is the correct way to connect the alternator to > the > battery? > > > * What exactly should I connect to the grounding point? > (Which > is on the firewall) > > Serge VIDAL > Johannesburg > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 08:27:44 -0400 To: "'Peter Johnson'" , krnet@mailinglists.org From: "HEATH, DANIEL R" Subject: RE: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working Message-ID: I was reading the Aircraft Spruce catalog on working with resin and foam. One thing mentioned was to be sure to cover the foam with a micro slurry before putting on your glass. This was to prevent the escape of air from the foam, which would cause bubbles. This might be what is causing the problem. Daniel R. Heath DHeath@Scana.com (803)217-9984 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Johnson [mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:25 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working Ok, so Bill discovered he used peel ply to make his seats, no big problem, as long as the material stays together. Those of you with marine experience probably know that sometimes good quality linen is used with epoxy on layups because linen has much better impact resistance than glass cloth weight for weight. "Anything can be done with anything, provided you design for it." Here's some info on epoxy/cloth layups that I hope may be of help to others. First, epoxy does not give off a gas while curing. If a gas is being given off it's because the substrate is reacting with the epoxy, this is NOT GOOD and any bubbling that may occur in the cloth cannot just be stippled out. The root problem must be addressed. Fortunatly epoxy does not react with too many materials and the problem of substrates reacting negatively are slim. For what it's worth, epoxy will slowly desolve hot melt glue and some single component adhesives. I mention this because I know some of you are using these adhesives to hold your foam in place on the structure. Not a big deal because it is the epoxy that holds everything together after it is applied and has curied. One situation that may cause grief is if you have a piece of foam that is under stress after fitting it, you've got just a bit of adhesive holding it in place, and the adhesive is close to the surface. If the epoxy were to desolve this bit of adhesive the foam may move on you. Just food for thought... Bubbling IN epoxy can occur due to over mixing. Air becomes entrained in the epoxy during mixing, and due to natural heating of the epoxy during curing, these small air entrainments can expand. The cure for bubbling caused by this is simple; using a hair dryer, CAREFULLY!!! just WARM the epoxy as soon as possible after completing the layup. Do not warm it to the point that it begins to flow, this is too warm, instead, if you watch closely, you will see the entrained air expand and then pop up at the surface of the epoxy. The best way to prevent this air entrainment is to mix your epoxy slowly, in a circular pattern, in a large, round, shallow bowl using a plastic spatula. (I use microwave safe paper bowls, no corners, just the right size to complete a good size layup, cheap, and reusable too! Use a plastic spatula because rubber will absorb epoxy and the spatula will be shot after one use. Plastic spats are cheaper and reusable.) Another cause of bubbling in cloth layups occurs because the cloth has not been layed down flat, smooth and tight on the work surface. If you have anykind of 'looseness' of the cloth while it is laying dry on the wing or fuse or whatever, this 'loose' cloth will come together as your are applying epoxy and, just because there is no room for it to go anywhere on the surface, it will rise up and cause a 'bubble'. This is not good of course because the cloth is high, unstable, and unable to carry any loads without buckling, and it is impossible to work the surface to produce a finish without cutting through the cloth and this is of course completely unacceptable! A couple of ways to prevent this type of 'bubbling' is to ensure you never fold your cloth. If your cloth is folded, lay it out on a flat surface and using clean hands smooth it flat before laying it on the work. Once the cloth is layed on the work area smooth it out flat, working from the center of the cloth to outer edges. Another thing to do to prevent this 'bubbling' is to always complete your squeeging of the epoxy moving the squeege in a direction from the center of the layup area to the outer edges of the layup, this way you are always pulling the cloth tight. With regards to using Saran Wrap to overlay a layup, it works great except for one thing, don't use Saran Wrap. As one fellow here pointed out, light material like Saran Wrap will fold, wrinkle, get krinkly, and generally be annoying to work with. Instead, use heavy poly or vapour barrier as an overlay (off a roll, not unfolded from a precut package), and get someone to help you hold the plastic up tight and lay it down on the work. This technigue is reffered to as 'vaccumless bagging' and was described by another KR Net member early last year. If done properly the method produces an amazing surface with no pinholes! Try it on a practise area if you are curious. Hope this info is of assistance to someone. If there is anything I can do to help anyone with this type of work, please drop me a note, I will endeavour to reply as soon as possible. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 08:50:52 -0500 (CDT) To: "HEATH, DANIEL R" From: Steven Eberhart cc: 'Peter Johnson' , Subject: RE: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working Message-ID: According to Bert Rutan's book and video the micro slurry is used to "key" the glass layers to the porous foam. Regular epoxy can be used but is heavier than a mixture of micro baloons and epoxy. It is the grip that is formed by working the micro slurry into the pores of the foam that increases adhesion of the glass to the foam core. No mention was made about outgassing of the foam. What was said was that all of the small airbubles in the epoxy join together to form bigger bubbles. It is also stressed how easy it is to squegee IN air between the weave of the fabric and that you have to really work to get all of the air out. Steve Eberhart On Mon, 7 May 2001, HEATH, DANIEL R wrote: > I was reading the Aircraft Spruce catalog on working with resin and foam. > One thing mentioned was to be sure to cover the foam with a micro slurry > before putting on your glass. This was to prevent the escape of air from > the foam, which would cause bubbles. This might be what is causing the > problem. > > Daniel R. Heath > DHeath@Scana.com > (803)217-9984 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Johnson [mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca] > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:25 PM > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working > > > Ok, so Bill discovered he used peel ply to make his seats, no big problem, > as long as the material stays together. Those of you with marine experience > probably know that sometimes good quality linen is used with epoxy on layups > because linen has much better impact resistance than glass cloth weight for > weight. "Anything can be done with anything, provided you design for it." > > Here's some info on epoxy/cloth layups that I hope may be of help to others. > > First, epoxy does not give off a gas while curing. If a gas is being given > off it's because the substrate is reacting with the epoxy, this is NOT GOOD > and any bubbling that may occur in the cloth cannot just be stippled out. > The root problem must be addressed. Fortunatly epoxy does not react with > too many materials and the problem of substrates reacting negatively are > slim. For what it's worth, epoxy will slowly desolve hot melt glue and some > single component adhesives. I mention this because I know some of you are > using these adhesives to hold your foam in place on the structure. Not a > big deal because it is the epoxy that holds everything together after it is > applied and has curied. One situation that may cause grief is if you have a > piece of foam that is under stress after fitting it, you've got just a bit > of adhesive holding it in place, and the adhesive is close to the surface. > If the epoxy were to desolve this bit of adhesive the foam may move on you. > Just food for thought... > > Bubbling IN epoxy can occur due to over mixing. Air becomes entrained in > the epoxy during mixing, and due to natural heating of the epoxy during > curing, these small air entrainments can expand. The cure for bubbling > caused by this is simple; using a hair dryer, CAREFULLY!!! just WARM the > epoxy as soon as possible after completing the layup. Do not warm it to the > point that it begins to flow, this is too warm, instead, if you watch > closely, you will see the entrained air expand and then pop up at the > surface of the epoxy. The best way to prevent this air entrainment is to > mix your epoxy slowly, in a circular pattern, in a large, round, shallow > bowl using a plastic spatula. (I use microwave safe paper bowls, no corners, > just the right size to complete a good size layup, cheap, and reusable too! > Use a plastic spatula because rubber will absorb epoxy and the spatula will > be shot after one use. Plastic spats are cheaper and reusable.) > > Another cause of bubbling in cloth layups occurs because the cloth has not > been layed down flat, smooth and tight on the work surface. If you have > anykind of 'looseness' of the cloth while it is laying dry on the wing or > fuse or whatever, this 'loose' cloth will come together as your are applying > epoxy and, just because there is no room for it to go anywhere on the > surface, it will rise up and cause a 'bubble'. This is not good of course > because the cloth is high, unstable, and unable to carry any loads without > buckling, and it is impossible to work the surface to produce a finish > without cutting through the cloth and this is of course completely > unacceptable! A couple of ways to prevent this type of 'bubbling' is to > ensure you never fold your cloth. If your cloth is folded, lay it out on a > flat surface and using clean hands smooth it flat before laying it on the > work. Once the cloth is layed on the work area smooth it out flat, working > from the center of the cloth to outer edges. Another thing to do to prevent > this 'bubbling' is to always complete your squeeging of the epoxy moving the > squeege in a direction from the center of the layup area to the outer edges > of the layup, this way you are always pulling the cloth tight. > > With regards to using Saran Wrap to overlay a layup, it works great except > for one thing, don't use Saran Wrap. As one fellow here pointed out, light > material like Saran Wrap will fold, wrinkle, get krinkly, and generally be > annoying to work with. Instead, use heavy poly or vapour barrier as an > overlay (off a roll, not unfolded from a precut package), and get someone to > help you hold the plastic up tight and lay it down on the work. This > technigue is reffered to as 'vaccumless bagging' and was described by > another KR Net member early last year. If done properly the method produces > an amazing surface with no pinholes! Try it on a practise area if you are > curious. > > Hope this info is of assistance to someone. If there is anything I can do > to help anyone with this type of work, please drop me a note, I will > endeavour to reply as soon as possible. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 16:08:38 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: RE: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010507160838.00816250@pop3.norton.antivirus> >I was reading the Aircraft Spruce catalog on working with resin and foam. >One thing mentioned was to be sure to cover the foam with a micro slurry >before putting on your glass. This was to prevent the escape of air from >the foam, which would cause bubbles. This might be what is causing the >problem. >Daniel R. Heath> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I glassed my entire project, including stock wings with built in tanks in the outer panels and didn't have a problem with a single air bubble. I sealed my foam with slurry and let it cure. I sanded that VERY lightly (one or two swipes with 150 grit) to get rid of any "prickleys", and then laid on the glass. I used a squeege and generally worked from the center of a layup to the edges. I'm confident I got just as good adheasion of glass to foam as if I had done it in a single step. Using this proceedure made the project a "one man operation" and I never felt rushed or over worked. The trick was to not leave any excess slury on the foam to cause lumps, etc. or that had to be sanded. My project has set out in direct summer sun for several hours at a time without primer and I have never seen a single sign of bubbles, buldges, or delamination. I also didn't have to worry about the glass soaking up any slury mix but was a pure resin layup without being too heavy if I was careful to squeege out the excess resin. If you don't trust this process, take two six inch squares of foam and lay on one layer of glass using each method. After they cure, peel off the layer of glass on each piece and see how much foam comes off with the glass on each one. Your results may vary....... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 21:08:39 -0500 To: , "larry flesner" From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working Message-ID: <001801c0d763$ccf7cd20$ad131a41@kc.rr.com> I used to test Urethane foam in a R&D lab and we found that when foam is first expanded it cures relative to the amb. temperature the hotter the temperature the lighter the foam ( and less compressive strength), anyway the foam needs to be heated again (post cured) to remain dimensionally stable and relieve internal gas ( off gas ) this should be about 6 or more hours post cure at 120 deg or so. Just lay a drop light near the foam area and cover with something to buildup the heat for a while. Some times factory foam is not fully cured before shipment. Just lay it in the direct sunlight for a few hours to insure a post cure. You could cover it with black plastic to do a better job. I would advise that you should always fill the foam pores before glassing to get good adhesion. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: RE: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working > >I was reading the Aircraft Spruce catalog on working with resin and foam. > >One thing mentioned was to be sure to cover the foam with a micro slurry > >before putting on your glass. This was to prevent the escape of air from > >the foam, which would cause bubbles. This might be what is causing the > >problem. > >Daniel R. Heath> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > I glassed my entire project, including stock wings with built in > tanks in the outer panels and didn't have a problem with a single > air bubble. I sealed my foam with slurry and let it cure. I sanded > that VERY lightly (one or two swipes with 150 grit) to get rid of > any "prickleys", and then laid on the glass. I used a squeege and > generally worked from the center of a layup to the edges. I'm > confident I got just as good adheasion of glass to foam as if I > had done it in a single step. Using this proceedure made the > project a "one man operation" and I never felt rushed or over > worked. The trick was to not leave any excess slury on the foam > to cause lumps, etc. or that had to be sanded. My project has > set out in direct summer sun for several hours at a time without > primer and I have never seen a single sign of bubbles, buldges, > or delamination. I also didn't have to worry about the glass > soaking up any slury mix but was a pure resin layup without > being too heavy if I was careful to squeege out the excess > resin. > > If you don't trust this process, take two six inch squares of > foam and lay on one layer of glass using each method. After they > cure, peel off the layer of glass on each piece and see how > much foam comes off with the glass on each one. > > Your results may vary....... > > Larry Flesner > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:46:28 +0200 To: "KRnet" From: "Aripo" Subject: Franco's Website Message-ID: <005401c0d6fc$3b71f2c0$1b481497@aripo> ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C0D70C.E1738E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everybody Now my personal website is in english too , thanks to my sister-in-low = Christine ,. KR2 construction pages http://digilander.iol.it/ikrfn/ Franco Negri I-KRFN ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C0D70C.E1738E80-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:01:44 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Laheze@aol.com Subject: Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: <8f.a800e1e.282820e8@aol.com> Steven hit the nail on the head with the slurry. The number one thing is the micro slurrys lighter weight compared to pure resin. Pure epoxy will work just fine without micro balloons as far as adhesion but is a lot heavier than the slurry mixture. Weight is your enemy when building airplanes of course so the micro balloons are mixed with the resin in order to lighten it up. I don't mean to make it less serious ! :) Larry Howell laheze@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 11:46:56 -0500 (CDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: shanspur@webtv.net (shannon spurgeon) Subject: WAF bolts, layups Message-ID: <24563-3AF6D180-3958@storefull-628.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Just doing my weekly read-thru and had to jump in on these: My concern with separate bolts on each fitting is asymmetric loading. As load is applied to these fittings they will want to twist sightly to get the load path in a straight line. This shifts the load to the edge of the bolt holes and could enlarge those carefully drilled holes. Standard practices consider it a possible failure path. (FAA school of paranoia) Re: layups, when I worked at Precision Composites, here in Wichita, ALL layups, wet or prepreg, were vacuum bagged for cure. Pulling a hard vacuum isn't necessary, just enough to suck out those annoying bubbles and prevent delamination. Happy building / flying, Shannon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 19:38:49 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Flyer2mc@aol.com CC: Flyer2mc@aol.com Subject: KR2 FOR SALE Message-ID: <89.64e81f4.28288c09@aol.com> For Sale- KR2 (N21JM) 1834 Revmaster Engine, New paint (Red/White) New Interior, and all gauges with fixed gear. Ready to fly!!! Asking $9,500.00. Call or e-mail if interested. (1-502-933-1282) Flyer2mc@aol.com Thanks Steve Sutton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 21:08:32 -0700 To: kr From: POND CARTER Subject: Lightening strike protection? Message-ID: <3AF77140.E463D798@home.com> Serious, intelligent answers only please! Of course I know avoidance is the best prevention. What is nessecary to provide a wood/fiberglass a/c with static discharge capability. Or Could some one explain how Commercial small a/c deal with this potential problems. Carter and Darren KR2S building ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 19:31:33 -0700 To: POND CARTER From: "Ross R. Youngblood" CC: kr Subject: Re: KR> Lightening strike protection? Message-ID: <3AF75A85.4333F143@home.com> There have been some nifty Discovery Wings Channel shows on this one. Fiberglass A/C don't doo too good when they are hit by lightning. Holes blown through structures etc. Turns out that if you do somthing to make the surface conductive, then it improves the situation. I think Carbon Fiber, or Graphite cloth is somewhat conductive, so it would help. There is also this conductive coating made by system III resins in Seattle Washington, which is designed for boats. I guess you just spray it on the hull of your boat, and it helps manage some type of hull electrolysis problem that I have no clue about. As far as static discharge goes, I have seen the little discharge wicks on some airplanes, but can't comment on how well they work, or what considerationss are used in placement. POND CARTER wrote: > Serious, intelligent answers only please! > Of course I know avoidance is the best prevention. > > What is nessecary to provide a wood/fiberglass a/c with static discharge > capability. Or Could some one explain how Commercial small a/c deal with > this potential problems. > > Carter and Darren > KR2S building > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:09:11 -0700 To: "HEATH, DANIEL R" From: "Ross R. Youngblood" CC: 'Kenneth L Wiltrout' , krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> N6399U Message-ID: <3AF74737.24352F21@home.com> If you are talking about the wing attach bolts, I always thought that there were 4 bolts fwd and 4 bolts aft 1 bolt for each pair of attach fittings. (4 AN-6 and 4 AN-3 bolts for each wing) I have heard about a single bolt approach, but the 4 bolt method seems to be better to me. -- Ross "HEATH, DANIEL R" wrote: > Speaking of inspections reminded me of one thing the inspector pointed out > to me on my first KR. He had me replace the single long bolt ( pin ) that > attached the top and the one that attached the bottom of the wing, with > individual bolts for each attach point. Does anyone have an opinion on > which way is best? > > I am looking at using one bolt with a spacer between, on this one. > > Daniel R. Heath > DHeath@Scana.com > (803)217-9984 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth L Wiltrout [mailto:klw1953@juno.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 6:16 PM > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> N6399U > > Just an update on N6399U. I had my FAA inspection on Tuesday, it was > performed by a DAR since the FAA was entirely to busy. Any how it went > extremely well. The DAR only found minor issues that required a decal or > two. He only asked that I get those decals on as soon as I could, then > promptly issued the airworthiness cert. For those of us that went through > this ordeal, I think I can speak for all of us when I say,GLAD THAT"S > OVER!!!!! 99U is based in Kutztown Pa and will under go ground and flight > testing as soon as I get insurance. Hopefully by next > weekend.--------------------Kenny > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:11:26 -0700 To: "William J. Starrs" From: "Ross R. Youngblood" CC: KR-net Subject: Re: KR> Reminder (please do not take offense) Message-ID: <3AF747BE.3B4F7DF1@home.com> I pray that we will have no more posts like this one. -- Ross KRnet admin. "William J. Starrs" wrote: > To day is the National day of Prayer,started by President Truman in 1945. Pray for our country. > > Visit the Arizona Catholic Evidence Guild at www.cybertrails.com/~bstarrs Find out for yourself exactly what the Catholic Church teaches. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:16:32 -0700 To: robert From: "Ross R. Youngblood" CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Ellison EFI-2 Message-ID: <3AF748F0.614782F7@home.com> Robert, Ellison will probably repair the unit for you. Call Ellison Fluid Systems up, they are in Renton Washington I believe, and are on the web... let me see if I have the number.... ah here it is 425 271-3220 Ellison Fluid Systems, Inc 350 Airport Way Renton, Washington 98055 Before you to that, I would check to see that you have good fuel flow, and not simply a clogged filter or gascolator. There is also a VERY FINE screen at the Ellison inlet that could be clogged as well. I don't know if Ellison sells rebuild kits or not, the unit is reasonably simple in the low number of parts, but they could do a super rebuild job if they do them. -- Ross robert wrote: > I'm thinking of buying this KR-2....To hear the VW run,I need to have this > EFI-2 rebuild....It will only run by useing the primer....it there some > place I can send it for rebuild.... > Bob > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:17:38 -0700 To: POND CARTER From: "Ross R. Youngblood" CC: kr Subject: Re: KR> Fuel pump Message-ID: <3AF74932.1B45A315@home.com> You could put a fuel filler on the header tank.... POND CARTER wrote: > Thanks for the input in the fuel pumps. I would like suggestion for > something better than 30gallons an hour such as the facet which is ideal > for inflight fuel transfers. It the fuel transfers while I have the > attention of the line crew that i need to be quick. > Any other ideas? > Thanks > Carter and his KR trainer to be departing this summer Flight level 1 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:33:54 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Subject: Engine Photos Message-ID: <3AF74D02.FB43020A@home.com> Frank Ross sent me some great photos of my engine he took when he visited earlier this spring. Go to http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/N541RY.htm and click on Engine or http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/Engine.html to get the no frames page. The first shot is a look at the Long-Eze heat box mounted under the engine, the second is a shot from below on how the heat box is mated to the Ellison EFS-2. The third shot, is a "behind the scenes" look at the instrument panel with the fwd deck removed. My forward deck is removable so you can get at the wiring. So far, I haven't needed to get to the wiring, just the plumbing to solve some fuel leaks. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 19:00:47 -0700 To: Bill Miller From: "Ross R. Youngblood" CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass and epoxy Message-ID: <3AF7534C.26BE2A6F@home.com> --------------6D006AD424E194AA5F0578FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, You best bet is to grab the phone RIGHT NOW and order a Wicks catalog, they have a parts breakdown for most kits that they sell materials for. You can buy "kits" or individual materials. With regards to epoxy and foam.... buy epoxy in 1 or 2 gallon kits. You probably don't want to mess around with more of that stuff at a time, if you buy all of it at once you save on shipping as any order for paint, epoxy etc, carries a "Hazardous Materials Charge". Wicks 800-221-9425 http://www.wicksaircraft.com I recommend "Structural Adheasive" or "T88" for wood to wood gluing, and "Aeropoxy" for all you glass/kevlar/carbon fiber stuff. The cheaper route is to buy DOW DER catalyst/resin for the glass, but I liked how Aeropoxy mixed, and it smelled less nasty. I have a 1997 Wicks Catalog and on page 65-66 it has a breakdown of most of the parts... caution... I found that things like bolts were a guide... I ended up buying more bolts of different sizes, but it gives you the general idea. I found that I spent a lot of $$ on shipping costs with the build as you go method. But it has been fun. A 4x8 sheet of 3/32" plywood cost me about $90 in the early 90's and another $45 for truck freight shipping. By the way, I have scanned the pages of the Wicks catalog to http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_1.jpg http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_2.jpg http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_3.jpg -- Ross Bill Miller wrote: > I have been looking over my kr2 plans...and trying to estimate about > how much material is required. It gives the spruce list, but that is > all.My questions are...1. about how many 24x48 sheets of 2" foam is > required for the tail assembly? 2. how many 24x48 sheets of 1" foam is > required for the wing assemblies?3. how many yards of 5.85oz > fiberglass cloth is required?4. about how many gal. of epoxy?5. how > many 4x8 sheets of 3/32 ply is required for the fuse? i appreciate any > replies.....have to work out the budget so i can get this bird > started! --------------6D006AD424E194AA5F0578FB Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------51592DC554C84394BF997D3A" --------------51592DC554C84394BF997D3A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill,
  You best bet is to grab the phone RIGHT NOW and order a Wicks catalog, they have a parts
breakdown for most kits that they sell materials for.  You can buy "kits" or individual materials.
With regards to epoxy and foam.... buy epoxy in 1 or 2 gallon kits.  You probably don't want
to mess around with more of that stuff at a time, if you buy all of it at once you save on shipping
as any order for paint, epoxy etc, carries a "Hazardous Materials Charge".

  Wicks 800-221-9425 http://www.wicksaircraft.com

 I recommend "Structural Adheasive" or "T88" for wood to wood gluing, and "Aeropoxy" for all
you glass/kevlar/carbon fiber stuff.   The cheaper route is to buy DOW DER catalyst/resin for
the glass, but I liked how Aeropoxy mixed, and it smelled less nasty.

  I have a 1997 Wicks Catalog and on page 65-66 it has a breakdown of most of the parts...
caution... I found that things like bolts were a guide... I ended up buying more bolts of different
sizes, but it gives you the general idea.

  I found that I spent a lot of $$ on shipping costs with the build as you go method.  But it
has been fun.  A 4x8 sheet of 3/32" plywood cost me about $90 in the early 90's and another
$45 for truck freight shipping.

  By the way, I have scanned the pages of the Wicks catalog to
http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_1.jpg
http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_2.jpg
http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_3.jpg
 -- Ross
Bill Miller wrote:

I have been looking over my kr2 plans...and trying to estimate about how much material is required. It gives the spruce list, but that is all.My questions are...1. about how many 24x48 sheets of 2" foam is required for the tail assembly? 2. how many 24x48 sheets of 1" foam is required for the wing assemblies?3. how many yards of 5.85oz fiberglass cloth is required?4. about how many gal. of epoxy?5. how many 4x8 sheets of 3/32 ply is required for the fuse? i appreciate any replies.....have to work out the budget so i can get this bird started!
--------------51592DC554C84394BF997D3A Content-Type: application/x-unknown-content-type Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="" --------------51592DC554C84394BF997D3A-- --------------6D006AD424E194AA5F0578FB-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 19:06:28 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Subject: '97 Wicks Catalog Scans Message-ID: <3AF754A4.B2A8F8A8@home.com> I just put these out on my website.... From the '97 wicks catalog. I'm not sure how readable these are. http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_1.jpg http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_2.jpg http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_3.jpg Actually wicks_2 is fine, but 1 & 3 are mirror image... hopefully by the time you read this I will have the fixed versions uploaded to teleport. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 19:11:39 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Subject: 2001 Gathering Message-ID: <3AF755DB.7809C9AA@home.com> Ok, so I've been sleeping.... can anyone email me the stats on the 2001 gathering? I suppose if I was any kind of decent admin, I would update the krnet.org website with the information. Geez! I'm thinking I might be able to figure a way to make it out this year. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 19:21:58 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Subject: Long Winded Email Message-ID: <3AF75846.BDF34A18@home.com> I had my first pilot in command trip in some time last Saturday, I flew to Sedona from Scottsdale, AZ. For those not out in the sticks Sedona is about in the center of Arizona and has a nifty sloped runway at the top of a Mesa, surrounded by beautiful canyons... See there is this restraunt at the top and that is why we go there... to eat eggs and enjoy the view. I took my mom with me, as my wife is afraid of flying, and my daughter has developed an aversion to the summertime bumps which result in airsickness. I have a friend out here who refers to the thermals as "potholes". So after the trip, I got all charged up, I need to bag this KR thing, and buy myself a Mooney or a Cessna Cardinal. So I do some looking, it turns out that a 30 year old Mooney or Cardinal can be purchased for only about $50,000 to $100,000 dollars. And the books say that Mooneys are really fuel efficient, burning only 8-9 gallons per hour, and they cruise at about 170mph (actually I find they do about 150mph or less). As I was thinking, I recalled that the flying club just replaced the ignition switch in the Mooney, for about $400.00, I could buy a lot for $400.00. I could probaby go to a junkyard, and locate a Lexus or Mercury keyless entry system for my KR, and still have money to buy a $100 hamburger. Then it occurs to me that since no-one in my family wants to fly with me anyway, what I really need to buy, is a 2 seat version of the Mooney, you know, somthing with a low wing, two seats, and retractable gear. And it would be nice if the thing burned say 1/2 of what the Mooney did in fuel around say 4 gallons per hour. It should cruise around the Mooneys speed of 160mph. I think though that having a bubble canopy would be nice to improve visability, and conventional taildragger gear, to make it light, instead of tri-gear. Perhaps I should go out into the garage and hook up my mixture linkage. -- Ross ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************