From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 9 May 2001 12:47:22 -0000 Issue 220 Date: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 5:47 AM krnet Digest 9 May 2001 12:47:22 -0000 Issue 220 Topics (messages 5249 through 5274): wings 5249 by: robert 5252 by: Ross R. Youngblood Re: Epoxy - Fiberglass Working 5250 by: John Esch 5251 by: Brian J Bland 5253 by: Ross R. Youngblood Mixture Linkage disconnect 5254 by: Ross R. Youngblood DUAL CONTROLS 5255 by: pjvisc.netzero.net 5256 by: John P Moyle 5269 by: pjvisc.netzero.net Looking for KR2 5257 by: Dave Vieira Re: fiberglass and epoxy 5258 by: Robert Stone Re: Re Fiberglassing 5259 by: Dale Baldwin 5260 by: Mark Langford 5262 by: John Esch 5264 by: Steven Eberhart 5265 by: Mark Langford 5266 by: Laheze.aol.com 5267 by: Mark Langford 5270 by: Ron Eason 5272 by: HEATH, DANIEL R 5274 by: Jerry Mahurin Re: Lightening strike protection? 5261 by: Robert X. Cringely RE:Revmaster cowlings? 5263 by: Todd Servaes Dean Selby's plane 5268 by: Mark Langford For South African netters 5271 by: Livingstone, Danny (DJ) Re: N6399U 5273 by: HEATH, DANIEL R Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 23:01:24 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: robert Subject: wings Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010507230124.007bbe10@mail.forcomm.net> Hi; I'm almost ready to close the deal on this KR-2...But, the thing that I don't like it..Both outside wings have some dips in them...between the ribs...What can I do to smooth this out..and not add a lot of weight.?? Thanks Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 22:23:21 -0700 To: robert From: "Ross R. Youngblood" CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> wings Message-ID: <3AF782C9.BD3DAEF3@home.com> Robert, It depends on the depth of the dips. You can sand off the paint, then add some dry micro to bring the surface level up if it is really deep. But don't get too carried away... one slip, and you might end up doing more work than just buying a set of wing skins and building a new spar. That would give you a perfect contour. I have to admit the contour on my wing is much less than perfect. Nothing that a couple of months in a sanding booth couldn't fix however. -- Ross robert wrote: > Hi; > I'm almost ready to close the deal on this KR-2...But, the thing that I > don't like it..Both outside wings have some dips in them...between the > ribs...What can I do to smooth this out..and not add a lot of weight.?? > Thanks > Bob > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 21:28:12 -0700 To: Steven Eberhart From: John Esch CC: "HEATH, DANIEL R" , "'Peter Johnson'" , krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working Message-ID: <3AF775DB.87CCB96C@earthlink.net> Just curious what the ratio of the epoxy and micro balloons should be used? I am getting close on glassing my Hor Stab/elevator and I haven't worked with foam before. The only experience I have was that I built a 101" R/C P51 Mustang that was glassed over the wood. John F. Esch KR-2S Taxiway Bonanza, Independence, OR Steven Eberhart wrote: > According to Bert Rutan's book and video the micro slurry is used to "key" > the glass layers to the porous foam. Regular epoxy can be used but is > heavier than a mixture of micro baloons and epoxy. It is the grip that is > formed by working the micro slurry into the pores of the foam that > increases adhesion of the glass to the foam core. No mention was made > about outgassing of the foam. What was said was that all of the small > airbubles in the epoxy join together to form bigger bubbles. It is also > stressed how easy it is to squegee IN air between the weave of the fabric > and that you have to really work to get all of the air out. > > Steve Eberhart > > On Mon, 7 May 2001, HEATH, DANIEL R wrote: > > > I was reading the Aircraft Spruce catalog on working with resin and foam. > > One thing mentioned was to be sure to cover the foam with a micro slurry > > before putting on your glass. This was to prevent the escape of air from > > the foam, which would cause bubbles. This might be what is causing the > > problem. > > > > Daniel R. Heath > > DHeath@Scana.com > > (803)217-9984 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter Johnson [mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca] > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:25 PM > > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > > Subject: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working > > > > > > Ok, so Bill discovered he used peel ply to make his seats, no big problem, > > as long as the material stays together. Those of you with marine experience > > probably know that sometimes good quality linen is used with epoxy on layups > > because linen has much better impact resistance than glass cloth weight for > > weight. "Anything can be done with anything, provided you design for it." > > > > Here's some info on epoxy/cloth layups that I hope may be of help to others. > > > > First, epoxy does not give off a gas while curing. If a gas is being given > > off it's because the substrate is reacting with the epoxy, this is NOT GOOD > > and any bubbling that may occur in the cloth cannot just be stippled out. > > The root problem must be addressed. Fortunatly epoxy does not react with > > too many materials and the problem of substrates reacting negatively are > > slim. For what it's worth, epoxy will slowly desolve hot melt glue and some > > single component adhesives. I mention this because I know some of you are > > using these adhesives to hold your foam in place on the structure. Not a > > big deal because it is the epoxy that holds everything together after it is > > applied and has curied. One situation that may cause grief is if you have a > > piece of foam that is under stress after fitting it, you've got just a bit > > of adhesive holding it in place, and the adhesive is close to the surface. > > If the epoxy were to desolve this bit of adhesive the foam may move on you. > > Just food for thought... > > > > Bubbling IN epoxy can occur due to over mixing. Air becomes entrained in > > the epoxy during mixing, and due to natural heating of the epoxy during > > curing, these small air entrainments can expand. The cure for bubbling > > caused by this is simple; using a hair dryer, CAREFULLY!!! just WARM the > > epoxy as soon as possible after completing the layup. Do not warm it to the > > point that it begins to flow, this is too warm, instead, if you watch > > closely, you will see the entrained air expand and then pop up at the > > surface of the epoxy. The best way to prevent this air entrainment is to > > mix your epoxy slowly, in a circular pattern, in a large, round, shallow > > bowl using a plastic spatula. (I use microwave safe paper bowls, no corners, > > just the right size to complete a good size layup, cheap, and reusable too! > > Use a plastic spatula because rubber will absorb epoxy and the spatula will > > be shot after one use. Plastic spats are cheaper and reusable.) > > > > Another cause of bubbling in cloth layups occurs because the cloth has not > > been layed down flat, smooth and tight on the work surface. If you have > > anykind of 'looseness' of the cloth while it is laying dry on the wing or > > fuse or whatever, this 'loose' cloth will come together as your are applying > > epoxy and, just because there is no room for it to go anywhere on the > > surface, it will rise up and cause a 'bubble'. This is not good of course > > because the cloth is high, unstable, and unable to carry any loads without > > buckling, and it is impossible to work the surface to produce a finish > > without cutting through the cloth and this is of course completely > > unacceptable! A couple of ways to prevent this type of 'bubbling' is to > > ensure you never fold your cloth. If your cloth is folded, lay it out on a > > flat surface and using clean hands smooth it flat before laying it on the > > work. Once the cloth is layed on the work area smooth it out flat, working > > from the center of the cloth to outer edges. Another thing to do to prevent > > this 'bubbling' is to always complete your squeeging of the epoxy moving the > > squeege in a direction from the center of the layup area to the outer edges > > of the layup, this way you are always pulling the cloth tight. > > > > With regards to using Saran Wrap to overlay a layup, it works great except > > for one thing, don't use Saran Wrap. As one fellow here pointed out, light > > material like Saran Wrap will fold, wrinkle, get krinkly, and generally be > > annoying to work with. Instead, use heavy poly or vapour barrier as an > > overlay (off a roll, not unfolded from a precut package), and get someone to > > help you hold the plastic up tight and lay it down on the work. This > > technigue is reffered to as 'vaccumless bagging' and was described by > > another KR Net member early last year. If done properly the method produces > > an amazing surface with no pinholes! Try it on a practise area if you are > > curious. > > > > Hope this info is of assistance to someone. If there is anything I can do > > to help anyone with this type of work, please drop me a note, I will > > endeavour to reply as soon as possible. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > Steve Eberhart > mailto:newtech@newtech.com > > One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are > easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:01:26 -0500 To: "KRNet" , "John Esch" From: "Brian J Bland" Subject: RE: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working Message-ID: John, When sealing the foam before glassing you basically want the epoxy and micro to be about like honey. Just mix up some epoxy and start stirring in micro until it gets to be about like honey. If you mix it to dry you will have fun getting it to stick to the foam. Brian J Bland Claremore, OK mailto:bruiser@dellepro.com -----Original Message----- From: John Esch [mailto:jfesch@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 11:28 PM To: Steven Eberhart Cc: HEATH, DANIEL R; 'Peter Johnson'; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working Just curious what the ratio of the epoxy and micro balloons should be used? I am getting close on glassing my Hor Stab/elevator and I haven't worked with foam before. The only experience I have was that I built a 101" R/C P51 Mustang that was glassed over the wood. John F. Esch KR-2S Taxiway Bonanza, Independence, OR Steven Eberhart wrote: > According to Bert Rutan's book and video the micro slurry is used to "key" > the glass layers to the porous foam. Regular epoxy can be used but is > heavier than a mixture of micro baloons and epoxy. It is the grip that is > formed by working the micro slurry into the pores of the foam that > increases adhesion of the glass to the foam core. No mention was made > about outgassing of the foam. What was said was that all of the small > airbubles in the epoxy join together to form bigger bubbles. It is also > stressed how easy it is to squegee IN air between the weave of the fabric > and that you have to really work to get all of the air out. > > Steve Eberhart > > On Mon, 7 May 2001, HEATH, DANIEL R wrote: > > > I was reading the Aircraft Spruce catalog on working with resin and foam. > > One thing mentioned was to be sure to cover the foam with a micro slurry > > before putting on your glass. This was to prevent the escape of air from > > the foam, which would cause bubbles. This might be what is causing the > > problem. > > > > Daniel R. Heath > > DHeath@Scana.com > > (803)217-9984 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter Johnson [mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca] > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:25 PM > > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > > Subject: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working > > > > > > Ok, so Bill discovered he used peel ply to make his seats, no big problem, > > as long as the material stays together. Those of you with marine experience > > probably know that sometimes good quality linen is used with epoxy on layups > > because linen has much better impact resistance than glass cloth weight for > > weight. "Anything can be done with anything, provided you design for it." > > > > Here's some info on epoxy/cloth layups that I hope may be of help to others. > > > > First, epoxy does not give off a gas while curing. If a gas is being given > > off it's because the substrate is reacting with the epoxy, this is NOT GOOD > > and any bubbling that may occur in the cloth cannot just be stippled out. > > The root problem must be addressed. Fortunatly epoxy does not react with > > too many materials and the problem of substrates reacting negatively are > > slim. For what it's worth, epoxy will slowly desolve hot melt glue and some > > single component adhesives. I mention this because I know some of you are > > using these adhesives to hold your foam in place on the structure. Not a > > big deal because it is the epoxy that holds everything together after it is > > applied and has curied. One situation that may cause grief is if you have a > > piece of foam that is under stress after fitting it, you've got just a bit > > of adhesive holding it in place, and the adhesive is close to the surface. > > If the epoxy were to desolve this bit of adhesive the foam may move on you. > > Just food for thought... > > > > Bubbling IN epoxy can occur due to over mixing. Air becomes entrained in > > the epoxy during mixing, and due to natural heating of the epoxy during > > curing, these small air entrainments can expand. The cure for bubbling > > caused by this is simple; using a hair dryer, CAREFULLY!!! just WARM the > > epoxy as soon as possible after completing the layup. Do not warm it to the > > point that it begins to flow, this is too warm, instead, if you watch > > closely, you will see the entrained air expand and then pop up at the > > surface of the epoxy. The best way to prevent this air entrainment is to > > mix your epoxy slowly, in a circular pattern, in a large, round, shallow > > bowl using a plastic spatula. (I use microwave safe paper bowls, no corners, > > just the right size to complete a good size layup, cheap, and reusable too! > > Use a plastic spatula because rubber will absorb epoxy and the spatula will > > be shot after one use. Plastic spats are cheaper and reusable.) > > > > Another cause of bubbling in cloth layups occurs because the cloth has not > > been layed down flat, smooth and tight on the work surface. If you have > > anykind of 'looseness' of the cloth while it is laying dry on the wing or > > fuse or whatever, this 'loose' cloth will come together as your are applying > > epoxy and, just because there is no room for it to go anywhere on the > > surface, it will rise up and cause a 'bubble'. This is not good of course > > because the cloth is high, unstable, and unable to carry any loads without > > buckling, and it is impossible to work the surface to produce a finish > > without cutting through the cloth and this is of course completely > > unacceptable! A couple of ways to prevent this type of 'bubbling' is to > > ensure you never fold your cloth. If your cloth is folded, lay it out on a > > flat surface and using clean hands smooth it flat before laying it on the > > work. Once the cloth is layed on the work area smooth it out flat, working > > from the center of the cloth to outer edges. Another thing to do to prevent > > this 'bubbling' is to always complete your squeeging of the epoxy moving the > > squeege in a direction from the center of the layup area to the outer edges > > of the layup, this way you are always pulling the cloth tight. > > > > With regards to using Saran Wrap to overlay a layup, it works great except > > for one thing, don't use Saran Wrap. As one fellow here pointed out, light > > material like Saran Wrap will fold, wrinkle, get krinkly, and generally be > > annoying to work with. Instead, use heavy poly or vapour barrier as an > > overlay (off a roll, not unfolded from a precut package), and get someone to > > help you hold the plastic up tight and lay it down on the work. This > > technigue is reffered to as 'vaccumless bagging' and was described by > > another KR Net member early last year. If done properly the method produces > > an amazing surface with no pinholes! Try it on a practise area if you are > > curious. > > > > Hope this info is of assistance to someone. If there is anything I can do > > to help anyone with this type of work, please drop me a note, I will > > endeavour to reply as soon as possible. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > Steve Eberhart > mailto:newtech@newtech.com > > One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are > easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 22:35:31 -0700 To: John Esch From: "Ross R. Youngblood" CC: Steven Eberhart , "HEATH, DANIEL R" , 'Peter Johnson' , krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working Message-ID: <3AF785A3.5F0D9AF5@home.com> John, For sealing the foam, you want a consistancy like thick honey, or really thick elmers glue. If you get it too thick, it doesn't squeege on very well, too thin, and it runs off of everything. I start with a 50/50 mix and go from there. If you get it too thick, when you scrape it with the squeege, you may end up damaging the foam. I use Solo plastic cups to mix my micro in, they are cheap at Costco. The downside is that if you have one over 1/4 full when you are done, it will eventually go exothermic on you and meltdown, usually a couple of hours after you have left the shop. Just make sure you don't leave it anywhere unprotected, as you have a permanent marker which needs to be chiseled off later. Back to consistancy... you want it a little thinner than Betty Crocker Frosting, so that it spreads well. A nifty trick to wet out glass, is to use a garbage bag template for your layup. Trace your pattern on the garbage bag 3" or more oversize, then cut the bag open, you instantly get two patterns a top and bottom from the garbage bag. Then you lay one garbage bag down, place the cloth on top and pour the pure epoxy (no micro) over it, then cover with the other garbage bag, and roll the epoxy out with a large dowel (don't use your wifes rolling pin, or closet dowel). This gets the glass all wetted out without using too much glass, then peel off one side of the garbage bag, and viola' you have a fiberglass band-aid like product that you can apply with no mess to your slurried sealed foam. Another trick I used to extreme, was to purchase many many sharpee markers, and write all over my glass before wetting it out. Arrows for which way was front, which layup was Left/Right side, also 1 of 2 2 of 2 etc. This shows through the cured glass, and makes it easy for you to tell if you forot a layup. You can also mark areas that you want to position in a certain place. If you use white ( or clear) trash bags, you can see these marks as well (if I recall). Once you have the glass where you want it, you can peel off the trash bag, and finish applying any more epoxy to any areas that appear to need it. I didn't learn the garbage bag trick until after I had done most of my fiberglass work. An RV builder learned it from a Glasair builder in my EAA chapter, and passed it on to me. -- Ross John Esch wrote: > Just curious what the ratio of the epoxy and micro balloons should be used? I am > getting close on glassing my Hor Stab/elevator and I haven't worked with foam > before. The only experience I have was that I built a 101" R/C P51 Mustang that > was glassed over the wood. > > John F. Esch > KR-2S > Taxiway Bonanza, Independence, OR > > Steven Eberhart wrote: > > > According to Bert Rutan's book and video the micro slurry is used to "key" > > the glass layers to the porous foam. Regular epoxy can be used but is > > heavier than a mixture of micro baloons and epoxy. It is the grip that is > > formed by working the micro slurry into the pores of the foam that > > increases adhesion of the glass to the foam core. No mention was made > > about outgassing of the foam. What was said was that all of the small > > airbubles in the epoxy join together to form bigger bubbles. It is also > > stressed how easy it is to squegee IN air between the weave of the fabric > > and that you have to really work to get all of the air out. > > > > Steve Eberhart > > > > On Mon, 7 May 2001, HEATH, DANIEL R wrote: > > > > > I was reading the Aircraft Spruce catalog on working with resin and foam. > > > One thing mentioned was to be sure to cover the foam with a micro slurry > > > before putting on your glass. This was to prevent the escape of air from > > > the foam, which would cause bubbles. This might be what is causing the > > > problem. > > > > > > Daniel R. Heath > > > DHeath@Scana.com > > > (803)217-9984 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Peter Johnson [mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca] > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:25 PM > > > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > Subject: KR> Epoxy - Fiberglass Working > > > > > > > > > Ok, so Bill discovered he used peel ply to make his seats, no big problem, > > > as long as the material stays together. Those of you with marine experience > > > probably know that sometimes good quality linen is used with epoxy on layups > > > because linen has much better impact resistance than glass cloth weight for > > > weight. "Anything can be done with anything, provided you design for it." > > > > > > Here's some info on epoxy/cloth layups that I hope may be of help to others. > > > > > > First, epoxy does not give off a gas while curing. If a gas is being given > > > off it's because the substrate is reacting with the epoxy, this is NOT GOOD > > > and any bubbling that may occur in the cloth cannot just be stippled out. > > > The root problem must be addressed. Fortunatly epoxy does not react with > > > too many materials and the problem of substrates reacting negatively are > > > slim. For what it's worth, epoxy will slowly desolve hot melt glue and some > > > single component adhesives. I mention this because I know some of you are > > > using these adhesives to hold your foam in place on the structure. Not a > > > big deal because it is the epoxy that holds everything together after it is > > > applied and has curied. One situation that may cause grief is if you have a > > > piece of foam that is under stress after fitting it, you've got just a bit > > > of adhesive holding it in place, and the adhesive is close to the surface. > > > If the epoxy were to desolve this bit of adhesive the foam may move on you. > > > Just food for thought... > > > > > > Bubbling IN epoxy can occur due to over mixing. Air becomes entrained in > > > the epoxy during mixing, and due to natural heating of the epoxy during > > > curing, these small air entrainments can expand. The cure for bubbling > > > caused by this is simple; using a hair dryer, CAREFULLY!!! just WARM the > > > epoxy as soon as possible after completing the layup. Do not warm it to the > > > point that it begins to flow, this is too warm, instead, if you watch > > > closely, you will see the entrained air expand and then pop up at the > > > surface of the epoxy. The best way to prevent this air entrainment is to > > > mix your epoxy slowly, in a circular pattern, in a large, round, shallow > > > bowl using a plastic spatula. (I use microwave safe paper bowls, no corners, > > > just the right size to complete a good size layup, cheap, and reusable too! > > > Use a plastic spatula because rubber will absorb epoxy and the spatula will > > > be shot after one use. Plastic spats are cheaper and reusable.) > > > > > > Another cause of bubbling in cloth layups occurs because the cloth has not > > > been layed down flat, smooth and tight on the work surface. If you have > > > anykind of 'looseness' of the cloth while it is laying dry on the wing or > > > fuse or whatever, this 'loose' cloth will come together as your are applying > > > epoxy and, just because there is no room for it to go anywhere on the > > > surface, it will rise up and cause a 'bubble'. This is not good of course > > > because the cloth is high, unstable, and unable to carry any loads without > > > buckling, and it is impossible to work the surface to produce a finish > > > without cutting through the cloth and this is of course completely > > > unacceptable! A couple of ways to prevent this type of 'bubbling' is to > > > ensure you never fold your cloth. If your cloth is folded, lay it out on a > > > flat surface and using clean hands smooth it flat before laying it on the > > > work. Once the cloth is layed on the work area smooth it out flat, working > > > from the center of the cloth to outer edges. Another thing to do to prevent > > > this 'bubbling' is to always complete your squeeging of the epoxy moving the > > > squeege in a direction from the center of the layup area to the outer edges > > > of the layup, this way you are always pulling the cloth tight. > > > > > > With regards to using Saran Wrap to overlay a layup, it works great except > > > for one thing, don't use Saran Wrap. As one fellow here pointed out, light > > > material like Saran Wrap will fold, wrinkle, get krinkly, and generally be > > > annoying to work with. Instead, use heavy poly or vapour barrier as an > > > overlay (off a roll, not unfolded from a precut package), and get someone to > > > help you hold the plastic up tight and lay it down on the work. This > > > technigue is reffered to as 'vaccumless bagging' and was described by > > > another KR Net member early last year. If done properly the method produces > > > an amazing surface with no pinholes! Try it on a practise area if you are > > > curious. > > > > > > Hope this info is of assistance to someone. If there is anything I can do > > > to help anyone with this type of work, please drop me a note, I will > > > endeavour to reply as soon as possible. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > Steve Eberhart > > mailto:newtech@newtech.com > > > > One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are > > easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 22:52:59 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Subject: Mixture Linkage disconnect Message-ID: <3AF789BB.65BC4D79@home.com> I was out in the shop hooking up my mixture linkage, it seems old Murphy is out in force these days. When I went to purchase my throttle and mixture cables years ago, I carefully measured the throttle cable, as it was to have a threaded rod end, which mates with a ball joint assembly provided by Ellison for the TBI. I decided to just get a solid-wire end Vernier control for the mixture cable, so I just ordered enough extra length so I could cut it down. The only problem with the solid wire solution, is like anything else ... you have to solve the loose ends yourself (pun intended). Here is what I have tried so far. >From Wicks, they have P/N's AZ-230, AZ-2361, AZ-2372 for solid end wire. I have some of these, and just bought some more as they are cheap (.90c). However, they are not going to do the job for mixture linkage. Think marginal lawn mower or bicycle solution and you get the idea. Also from Wicks I found some 90 deg ball ends threaded cable ends P/N WG-1 and CW-3S. I bought these since I couldn't find my Aircraft Spruce Catalog, and they seemed like a solution that would work. We shall see when these parts arrive in a couple of days. Then I located the Aircraft Spruce Catalog and there on Page 155 is the MECCA of all control end supplies. What I wanted was a Cable "B" end nut, as the picture is exactly like the one I have in my hand that doesn't fit the mixture control arm. I have a "mixture" end P/N 05-16230, but this is too big for the mixture arm on the Ellison. (DOH why didn't I measure that when I ordered the part?) It may be that I have the right size part, but it is lost with the original mixture arm.. (Some may recall that I ordered a replacement mixture arm from Ellison last month...) at any rate, what I need for the Ellison is a PN05-16210 which has a .186dia bore which should fit the Ellison control arm, which appears to have a 3/16 size hole. Having said all of this, does anyone have a nifty mixture linkage solution for an Ellison TBI which I haven't considered. Also, it occurs to me that a rod end bearing solution would probably be a better solution for the flap actuation, then the 1/8" metal pushrod shown in the plans, although it would be heavier. Good thing I can order online now... man back in the old days, I'd be looking for a pen and a stamp at 10:00 and considering running to the post office so that the order would be in the mail first thing in the morning. -- Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 12:08:55 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: pjvisc@netzero.net Subject: DUAL CONTROLS Message-ID: <3AF81A17.4DA32916@netzero.net> --------------A5BF5F733B60DDB4B4D4D7E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know if there is a Dragonfly network such as KRnet ? I'd like to get some info about the dual control, side control in the KR. If anyone on krnet knows, please advise. Phil Visconti Marlboro, MA --------------A5BF5F733B60DDB4B4D4D7E0-- NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:44:57 -0700 To: pjvisc@netzero.net From: John P Moyle Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> DUAL CONTROLS Message-ID: <20010508.094501.-523425.0.jmoyle1@juno.com> Tuesday, May 8th, 2001 Phil, Please join the conversation on "Dragonflylist" !! Send the message "subscribe corvaircraft" to majordomo@usm.edu Another great net group, you'll get all the help you need there. John Moyle mailto:jmoyle1@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 23:05:53 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: pjvisc@netzero.net Subject: DUAL CONTROLS Message-ID: <3AF8B411.A2D191BE@netzero.net> --------------49239A9A9B6603EE4F9CF7DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John M., Robert M., Scott M., Virg., Thank you for info. Phil --------------49239A9A9B6603EE4F9CF7DB-- NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:53:33 -0700 (PDT) To: KRnet From: Dave Vieira Subject: Looking for KR2 Message-ID: <20010508165333.29878.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, recent accident with a water pipe as left my KR2 in boat stage in bad shape, awaiting RAA's investigation. in the mean time I am looking for a KR2 in boat stage for sale in Canada. Thanks ===== Dave Vieira Ontario, Canada __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:56:03 -0500 To: , "Bill Miller" From: "Robert Stone" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass and epoxy Message-ID: <002b01c0d7e8$272e3ca0$ebd8fea9@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0D7BE.3D333CA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0D7BE.3D333CA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0D7BE.3D333CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ross: You said you paid $45.00 for shipping on a sheet of 4' X 8' 3/32 = plywood. My question is, if you buy three or four sheets of the same = materiel is the shipping still $45.00 or is it more. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rlspjs@dashlink.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ross R. Youngblood=20 To: Bill Miller=20 Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org=20 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 9:00 PM Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass and epoxy Bill,=20 You best bet is to grab the phone RIGHT NOW and order a Wicks = catalog, they have a parts=20 breakdown for most kits that they sell materials for. You can buy = "kits" or individual materials.=20 With regards to epoxy and foam.... buy epoxy in 1 or 2 gallon kits. = You probably don't want=20 to mess around with more of that stuff at a time, if you buy all of it = at once you save on shipping=20 as any order for paint, epoxy etc, carries a "Hazardous Materials = Charge".=20 Wicks 800-221-9425 http://www.wicksaircraft.com=20 I recommend "Structural Adheasive" or "T88" for wood to wood gluing, = and "Aeropoxy" for all=20 you glass/kevlar/carbon fiber stuff. The cheaper route is to buy DOW = DER catalyst/resin for=20 the glass, but I liked how Aeropoxy mixed, and it smelled less nasty.=20 I have a 1997 Wicks Catalog and on page 65-66 it has a breakdown of = most of the parts...=20 caution... I found that things like bolts were a guide... I ended up = buying more bolts of different=20 sizes, but it gives you the general idea.=20 I found that I spent a lot of $$ on shipping costs with the build as = you go method. But it=20 has been fun. A 4x8 sheet of 3/32" plywood cost me about $90 in the = early 90's and another=20 $45 for truck freight shipping.=20 By the way, I have scanned the pages of the Wicks catalog to=20 http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_1.jpg=20 http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_2.jpg=20 http://www.teleport.com/~rossy/wicks_3.jpg=20 -- Ross=20 Bill Miller wrote:=20 I have been looking over my kr2 plans...and trying to estimate about = how much material is required. It gives the spruce list, but that is = all.My questions are...1. about how many 24x48 sheets of 2" foam is = required for the tail assembly? 2. how many 24x48 sheets of 1" foam is = required for the wing assemblies?3. how many yards of 5.85oz fiberglass = cloth is required?4. about how many gal. of epoxy?5. how many 4x8 sheets = of 3/32 ply is required for the fuse? i appreciate any replies.....have = to work out the budget so i can get this bird started! ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0D7BE.3D333CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ross:  You said=20 you paid $45.00 for shipping on a sheet of 4' X 8' 3/32 plywood.  = My=20 question is, if you buy three or four sheets of the same materiel is the = shipping still $45.00 or is it more.
Bob = Stone, Harker=20 Heights, Tx
rlspjs@dashlink.com
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ross R.=20 Youngblood
To: Bill=20 Miller
Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 9:00 = PM
Subject: Re: KR> fiberglass = and=20 epoxy

Bill,
  You best bet is to grab the phone = RIGHT NOW=20 and order a Wicks catalog, they have a parts
breakdown for most = kits that=20 they sell materials for.  You can buy "kits" or individual = materials.=20
With regards to epoxy and foam.... buy epoxy in 1 or 2 gallon = kits. =20 You probably don't want
to mess around with more of that stuff at = a time,=20 if you buy all of it at once you save on shipping
as any order for = paint,=20 epoxy etc, carries a "Hazardous Materials Charge".=20

  Wicks 800-221-9425 http://www.wicksaircraft.com =

 I recommend "Structural Adheasive" or "T88" for wood to wood = gluing,=20 and "Aeropoxy" for all
you glass/kevlar/carbon fiber = stuff.  =20 The cheaper route is to buy DOW DER catalyst/resin for
the glass, = but I=20 liked how Aeropoxy mixed, and it smelled less nasty.=20

  I have a 1997 Wicks Catalog and on page 65-66 it has a = breakdown of=20 most of the parts...
caution... I found that things like bolts = were a=20 guide... I ended up buying more bolts of different
sizes, but it = gives you=20 the general idea.=20

  I found that I spent a lot of $$ on shipping costs with the = build as=20 you go method.  But it
has been fun.  A 4x8 sheet of = 3/32"=20 plywood cost me about $90 in the early 90's and another
$45 for = truck=20 freight shipping.=20

  By the way, I have scanned the pages of the Wicks catalog to =
http://www.teleport.c= om/~rossy/wicks_1.jpg=20
http://www.teleport.c= om/~rossy/wicks_2.jpg=20
http://www.teleport.c= om/~rossy/wicks_3.jpg=20
 -- Ross
Bill Miller wrote:=20

I have been looking over my kr2 plans...and trying to estimate about = how=20 much material is required. It gives the spruce list, but that is = all.My=20 questions are...1. about how many 24x48 sheets of 2" foam is = required for=20 the tail assembly? 2. how many 24x48 sheets of 1" foam is required = for the=20 wing assemblies?3. how many yards of 5.85oz fiberglass cloth is = required?4.=20 about how many gal. of epoxy?5. how many 4x8 sheets of 3/32 ply is = required=20 for the fuse? i appreciate any replies.....have to work out the = budget so i=20 can get this bird started!
------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0D7BE.3D333CA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0D7BE.3D333CA0 Content-Type: application/x-unknown-content-type Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-ID: <002301c0d7e8$260944a0$ebd8fea9@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0D7BE.3D333CA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 10:07:09 -0400 To: , From: "Dale Baldwin" Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-Id: <20010508193358.MBWD3626.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@computername> I mixed the slurry to the honey consistancy applied to the foam and then laid the glass on top. The resin in the slurry would wet out probably 50-75% of the glass. Resulting in a fairly "dry" lay up. The down side to this is trying to keep the fibers in the proper orient. which is where Mark Langford's approach to wetting out the glass on plastic sheeting really is much easier. Though I think the end result would be a wetter lay up. Dale Baldwin, KR-2 ---------- > From: Laheze@aol.com > > Steven hit the nail on the head with the slurry. The number one thing is the > micro slurrys lighter weight compared to pure resin. > Pure epoxy will work just fine without micro balloons as far as adhesion but > is a lot heavier than the slurry mixture. Weight is your enemy when building > airplanes of course so the micro balloons are mixed with the resin in order > to lighten it up. I don't mean to make it less serious ! :) > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:20:53 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: <000901c0d7fc$6271a7c0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> > The down side to this is > trying to keep the fibers in the proper orient. > which is where Mark Langford's approach > to wetting out the glass on plastic sheeting > really is much easier. Though I think the end > result would be a wetter lay up. ...which is why I always peel-ply every layup, which eliminates pinholes AND soaks up excess epoxy (which I don't have much of, trust me)... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 13:49:01 -0700 To: Mark Langford From: John Esch CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: <3AF85BBD.7D710095@earthlink.net> I remember in past thread that a person could get something similiar to peep-ply at local fabric shops. Is that true or did I misread something? John F. Esch Independence, OR Mark Langford wrote: > > The down side to this is > > trying to keep the fibers in the proper orient. > > which is where Mark Langford's approach > > to wetting out the glass on plastic sheeting > > really is much easier. Though I think the end > > result would be a wetter lay up. > > ...which is why I always peel-ply every layup, which eliminates pinholes AND > soaks up excess epoxy (which I don't have much of, trust me)... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:29:41 -0500 (CDT) To: From: Steven Eberhart Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: I have used polyester dress lining material and it does a reasonable job. It tends to be harder to peel off if left on a lay up for a long time. THe best I have used is made for vacuum bagging and is great to work with. THe middle of the road, that I use mostly, is light weight uncertified Ceconite. If you buy glider weight Ceconite and peelply from wicks it will be cut off the same roll of cloth. I haven't looked to see if it is the same part number but that wouldn't surprise me. THe teflon coated vacuum bagging peel ply is the most expensive, followed by the Ceconite followed by the dress lining material. You should be CAUTIONED that you are on your own with the dress material as you have no way of knowing what chemicals, or what ever may be in/on the cloth that might interfear with subsequent bonding. A nice thing about the dress lining is you can get it in colors other than white. Helps remove the possibility of forgetting that peelply is on a part and bonding the part into an assembly. A layer of peelply in the middle of a structural part isn't cool. Like everything, plusses and minuses. THe best costs the most. The one with the most unknown is the cheapest. I don't think you will go wrong with the middle of the road here. THe Ceconite is nice to work with. Now, remember that Ceconite's original use is for covering aircraft structures - it shrinks with heat. Have a part that is curved, wing tips come to mind, a little use of a hot air gun can make the Ceconite easy to wrap around some curves. Please try this on test samples to get your technique worked out first. It is easy to shrink it where you don't want to and really mess things up. Steve EBerhart On Tue, 8 May 2001, John Esch wrote: > I remember in past thread that a person could get something similiar to peep-ply > at local fabric shops. Is that true or did I misread something? > > John F. Esch > Independence, OR > > Mark Langford wrote: > > > > The down side to this is > > > trying to keep the fibers in the proper orient. > > > which is where Mark Langford's approach > > > to wetting out the glass on plastic sheeting > > > really is much easier. Though I think the end > > > result would be a wetter lay up. > > > > ...which is why I always peel-ply every layup, which eliminates pinholes AND > > soaks up excess epoxy (which I don't have much of, trust me)... > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > Steve Eberhart mailto:newtech@newtech.com One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:40:52 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: <001b01c0d807$8e378db0$561cf618@600athlon> John Esch wrote: > > ...which is why I always peel-ply every layup, which eliminates pinholes AND > > soaks up excess epoxy (which I don't have much of, trust me)... "dress liner" from Walmart or a fabric store, but it's not treated with release agent. If you let the epoxy cure completely before you pull it off, you'll probably buy the real thing the next time around, because it will be really hard to pull off. Dana used to say pull it off 12 hours later or something similar... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:52:10 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Laheze@aol.com Subject: Fwd: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: --part1_f3.a1c28c0.2829c48a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_f3.a1c28c0.2829c48a_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: Laheze@aol.com Full-name: Laheze Message-ID: <103.2fad01e.2829c35d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:47:09 EDT Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing To: sketch013@worldnet.att.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Dale, When I mix my slurry, I mix as much micro balloons as possible to the point where I can still spread it without damaging the foam or rolling up the slurry. Mine is not cured when I place my glass on it but pretty dry to the point where you are not soaking up that much resin from it, if my slurry seems a little dry I just dip my squeegee in pure mixed resin as I am spreading the slurry to wet it out a little. That is like Grandma when she used to dip her knife in water while spreading thick cake icing, it spreads more easily. I usually have a litle pure mixed resin handy because I am going to be using it on my layup anyway. It sounds like you applied it just a little runny. The technique I use to apply the glass cloth and it works very well is cut it on your cutting table then roll it up very carefully. Carry it to the work area, lay it down in the correct orientation and carefully unroll it on your application (wing or whatever). If it is a little out of wack straighten it by pulling on the fibers at the outer edges of your piece of fiberglass cloth. If you are using unidirectional cloth just pull linerally, and if you are using bidirectional cloth you may have to pull it from two directions. If you roll the cloth out carefully and slowly, like I told you before, then you can keep it pretty straight to begin with. If you can develop the technique of getting the slurry down like I do then the cloth is not stuck with resin anywhere initially. You will have time to orient the cloth then sart squeegeeing it from the center area working out to the edges. If you are using unidirectional cloth just squeegee with the grain or with the orientation of the fibers. Try not to squeegee across the fibers too much or very very easy if you think you have to. When you initially squeegee the cloth down then you will pull a little resin from the slurry. Don't squeegee this too much because you can pull too much resin from beneath and then it will be too dry and will not have good adhesion to your foam. Add resin now and spread it as quickly as possible. Just get a very light coat spread over everything as quick as possible. Do not just keep pouring resin in trying to wet it out instantly because you will have it too resin rich and a heavy part and plane give it a few minutes and as it soaks into the cloth it will look wet out. Hope this helps you and if you have any questions e me and I will try and help you. Larry Howell laheze@aol.com --part1_f3.a1c28c0.2829c48a_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:16:04 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: <004501c0d80c$79740e30$561cf618@600athlon> > >...which is why I always peel-ply every layup, which eliminates pinholes AND > >soaks up excess epoxy (which I don't have much of, trust me)... I've had a couple of folks ask me what Peel Ply is. It's basically Dacron type fabric treated with some kind of release agent (teflon, maybe?) that you smooth into a fresh layup to do things like smooth out overlaps, bridge and fill pinholes, and most importantly, leave a "toothed" surface (although it's very fine teeth, and generally smooth) for future layups. When used with stuff like vinylester, it has the added benefit of taking the gummy "blush" layer off with it when you peel it off after the resin has thoroughly cured, allowing a layup directly on top with minimal preparation (none, but I didn't say that, cause some purist will complain). There are several visual examples of me using it on my web pages at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kmlfd.html near the bottom and also at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/owings.html near the bottom. It can be bought be the roll of narrow tape or by the yard from AS&S and Wicks both. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:18:47 -0500 To: "John Esch" , "Mark Langford" From: "Ron Eason" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: <005901c0d836$c3590a80$ad131a41@kc.rr.com> Yes it true. Take a sample to a fabric shop, they will duplicate it with a fabric liner they sell. They need the sample for weight. I don't by my peel-ply from aircraft supplies any more. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Esch" To: "Mark Langford" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:49 PM Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing > I remember in past thread that a person could get something similiar to peep-ply > at local fabric shops. Is that true or did I misread something? > > John F. Esch > Independence, OR > > Mark Langford wrote: > > > > The down side to this is > > > trying to keep the fibers in the proper orient. > > > which is where Mark Langford's approach > > > to wetting out the glass on plastic sheeting > > > really is much easier. Though I think the end > > > result would be a wetter lay up. > > > > ...which is why I always peel-ply every layup, which eliminates pinholes AND > > soaks up excess epoxy (which I don't have much of, trust me)... > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:13:12 -0400 To: "'Laheze@aol.com'" , sketch013@worldnet.att.net From: "HEATH, DANIEL R" Cc: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" Subject: RE: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: I have always used BID cloth. I see in this message that some may be using Uni. Is this an option and if so, can it be used over all the surfaces, and if so, what kind of UNI is used. The reason I ask, is not that I don't like to use BID, but that it causes a lot of waste to have to cut everything on the bias. It would be much more efficient to use UNI if possible. Daniel R. Heath DHeath@Scana.com (803)217-9984 -----Original Message----- From: Laheze@aol.com [mailto:Laheze@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:47 PM To: sketch013@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing Dale, When I mix my slurry, I mix as much micro balloons as possible to the point where I can still spread it without damaging the foam or rolling up the slurry. Mine is not cured when I place my glass on it but pretty dry to the point where you are not soaking up that much resin from it, if my slurry seems a little dry I just dip my squeegee in pure mixed resin as I am spreading the slurry to wet it out a little. That is like Grandma when she used to dip her knife in water while spreading thick cake icing, it spreads more easily. I usually have a litle pure mixed resin handy because I am going to be using it on my layup anyway. It sounds like you applied it just a little runny. The technique I use to apply the glass cloth and it works very well is cut it on your cutting table then roll it up very carefully. Carry it to the work area, lay it down in the correct orientation and carefully unroll it on your application (wing or whatever). If it is a little out of wack straighten it by pulling on the fibers at the outer edges of your piece of fiberglass cloth. If you are using unidirectional cloth just pull linerally, and if you are using bidirectional cloth you may have to pull it from two directions. If you roll the cloth out carefully and slowly, like I told you before, then you can keep it pretty straight to begin with. If you can develop the technique of getting the slurry down like I do then the cloth is not stuck with resin anywhere initially. You will have time to orient the cloth then sart squeegeeing it from the center area working out to the edges. If you are using unidirectional cloth just squeegee with the grain or with the orientation of the fibers. Try not to squeegee across the fibers too much or very very easy if you think you have to. When you initially squeegee the cloth down then you will pull a little resin from the slurry. Don't squeegee this too much because you can pull too much resin from beneath and then it will be too dry and will not have good adhesion to your foam. Add resin now and spread it as quickly as possible. Just get a very light coat spread over everything as quick as possible. Do not just keep pouring resin in trying to wet it out instantly because you will have it too resin rich and a heavy part and plane give it a few minutes and as it soaks into the cloth it will look wet out. Hope this helps you and if you have any questions e me and I will try and help you. Larry Howell laheze@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 12:46:53 To: DHEATH@scana.com, Laheze@aol.com, sketch013@worldnet.att.net From: "Jerry Mahurin" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: RE: KR> Re Fiberglassing Message-ID: Dan, UNI fiberglass cloth has all the strands going in one direction. BID woven fiberglass cloth has an equal number of strands going in two directions at 90 degrees to each other giving you equal strength is both directions. UNI will give you strength in only one direction. If you were to do a layup of a single layer of UNI over a sheet of foam, you could easily break the layup with your bare hands. Another reason for cutting on the diagonal is so that the cloth will form around bends more easily. Bottom line being you cannot get out of doing all that diagonal cutting by trying to use UNI cloth. And, it would be downright UNSAFE to use UNI where BID is called for. Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC >From: "HEATH, DANIEL R" >To: "'Laheze@aol.com'" , sketch013@worldnet.att.net >CC: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" >Subject: RE: KR> Re Fiberglassing >Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:13:12 -0400 > >I have always used BID cloth. I see in this message that some may be using >Uni. Is this an option and if so, can it be used over all the surfaces, >and >if so, what kind of UNI is used. The reason I ask, is not that I don't >like >to use BID, but that it causes a lot of waste to have to cut everything on >the bias. It would be much more efficient to use UNI if possible. > >Daniel R. Heath >DHeath@Scana.com >(803)217-9984 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Laheze@aol.com [mailto:Laheze@aol.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:47 PM >To: sketch013@worldnet.att.net >Subject: Re: KR> Re Fiberglassing > > >Dale, > >When I mix my slurry, I mix as much micro balloons as possible to the point >where I can still spread it without damaging the foam or rolling up the >slurry. Mine is not cured when I place my glass on it but pretty dry to the >point where you are not soaking up that much resin from it, if my slurry >seems a little dry I just dip my squeegee in pure mixed resin as I am >spreading the slurry to wet it out a little. That is like Grandma when she >used to dip her knife in water while spreading thick cake icing, it spreads >more easily. I usually have a litle pure mixed resin handy because I am >going >to be using it on my layup anyway. It sounds like you applied it just a >little runny. >The technique I use to apply the glass cloth and it works very well is cut >it >on your cutting table then roll it up very carefully. Carry it to the work >area, lay it down in the correct orientation and carefully unroll it on >your > >application (wing or whatever). >If it is a little out of wack straighten it by pulling on the fibers at the >outer edges of your piece of fiberglass cloth. If you are using >unidirectional cloth just pull linerally, and if you are using >bidirectional > >cloth you may have to pull it from two directions. If you roll the cloth >out > >carefully and slowly, like I told you before, then you can keep it pretty >straight to begin with. >If you can develop the technique of getting the slurry down like I do then >the cloth is not stuck with resin anywhere initially. You will have time to >orient the cloth then sart squeegeeing it from the center area working out >to >the edges. If you are using unidirectional cloth just squeegee with the >grain >or with the orientation of the fibers. Try not to squeegee across the >fibers > >too much or very very easy if you think you have to. >When you initially squeegee the cloth down then you will pull a little >resin > >from the slurry. Don't squeegee this too much because you can pull too much >resin from beneath and then it will be too dry and will not have good >adhesion to your foam. >Add resin now and spread it as quickly as possible. Just get a very light >coat spread over everything as quick as possible. Do not just keep pouring >resin in trying to wet it out instantly because you will have it too resin >rich and a heavy part and plane give it a few minutes and as it soaks into >the cloth it will look wet out. >Hope this helps you and if you have any questions e me and I will try and >help you. > >Larry Howell laheze@aol.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:27:00 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Robert X. Cringely" Subject: Re: KR> Lightening strike protection? Message-Id: You have to electrically bond together all the conductive parts of your airframe then give that common bond an exit path from the structure. In an aluminum aircraft, the aluminum provides the bond. In a wood or composite aircraft you have to wire all the parts together then to static wicks on the trailing edge of most surfaces. For further protection you can put a conductive mesh over the wood and within the composite. Alternately, as someone else suggested, you can use carbon fiber but you have to make sure the conductive carbon is, in fact, conductive, since epoxy is an insulator. So that's how you do it. Now let me express an opinion. In 3400 hours of flying composite aircraft (2300 hours of Glasair time and 1100 hours in KRs all over the last 24 years) I have had one lightning strike that caused minimal damage. The type of flying most KR pilots do will never, ever require you to worry about lightning. In fact, the only practical benefit I can see to doing this is just to avoid a static discharge problem during refueling, but that would only require bonding the fuel fillers and not the whole plane. All the best, Bob >Serious, intelligent answers only please! >Of course I know avoidance is the best prevention. > >What is nessecary to provide a wood/fiberglass a/c with static discharge >capability. Or Could some one explain how Commercial small a/c deal with >this potential problems. > >Carter and Darren >KR2S building > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:02:42 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org, Mark Langford From: Todd Servaes Subject: RE:Revmaster cowlings? Message-ID: <3AF85EF1.9A35C08A@netzero.net> Mark and cowl interested others: The RR KR-2S cowls are made for RR and as far as I knoware only available from them since the manufacturer is contracted to produce all premolded 2S parts. The cowls will only fit to plans 2S' unless modified. As Kenny noted they need some form of addition for most air intake carb combinations-- Roy Marsh's solution, one of the nicest, was to graft on the RV air scoop. To chime in on another topic: Entraped air bubbles can be released with a "porcupine" or "needle" roller-- check at composite material suppliers. Todd Servaes NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:57:24 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Dean Selby's plane Message-ID: <00a701c0d82b$646f1a10$561cf618@600athlon> I made a web site detailing Dean Selby's new plane, at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/dselby/ . Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 07:04:08 +0200 To: 'KRNet' From: "Livingstone, Danny (DJ)" Subject: For South African netters Message-ID: Hello guys Can any of you tell me who I can contact to blow a canopy for me. (I don't want the standard KR2 canopy - got gull wing type) Thanks Danny Sasolburg ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender. All opinions expressed are the sender's own and not necessarily that of the employer. ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:26:36 -0400 To: "'rossy65@home.com'" , "HEATH, DANIEL R" From: "HEATH, DANIEL R" Cc: "'Kenneth L Wiltrout'" , krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: RE: KR> N6399U Message-ID: Thank you all for all the information and opinions on the "Bolt Debate". I agree with the loading factors that are addressed by the single bolt, but I am really apprehensive about the "what if it fails" possibility. Does anyone know of any tests that have ever been performed on these AN6 bolts in shear, that support their NOT failing under the stress loads that may occur in this application? Thank you all very much, Daniel R. Heath DHeath@Scana.com (803)217-9984 -----Original Message----- From: Ross R. Youngblood [mailto:rossy65@home.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 9:09 PM To: HEATH, DANIEL R Cc: 'Kenneth L Wiltrout'; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> N6399U If you are talking about the wing attach bolts, I always thought that there were 4 bolts fwd and 4 bolts aft 1 bolt for each pair of attach fittings. (4 AN-6 and 4 AN-3 bolts for each wing) I have heard about a single bolt approach, but the 4 bolt method seems to be better to me. -- Ross "HEATH, DANIEL R" wrote: > Speaking of inspections reminded me of one thing the inspector pointed out > to me on my first KR. He had me replace the single long bolt ( pin ) that > attached the top and the one that attached the bottom of the wing, with > individual bolts for each attach point. Does anyone have an opinion on > which way is best? > > I am looking at using one bolt with a spacer between, on this one. > > Daniel R. Heath > DHeath@Scana.com > (803)217-9984 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth L Wiltrout [mailto:klw1953@juno.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 6:16 PM > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: KR> N6399U > > Just an update on N6399U. I had my FAA inspection on Tuesday, it was > performed by a DAR since the FAA was entirely to busy. Any how it went > extremely well. The DAR only found minor issues that required a decal or > two. He only asked that I get those decals on as soon as I could, then > promptly issued the airworthiness cert. For those of us that went through > this ordeal, I think I can speak for all of us when I say,GLAD THAT"S > OVER!!!!! 99U is based in Kutztown Pa and will under go ground and flight > testing as soon as I get insurance. Hopefully by next > weekend.--------------------Kenny > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************