From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 19 Jun 2001 16:53:26 -0000 Issue 241 Date: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 9:54 AM krnet Digest 19 Jun 2001 16:53:26 -0000 Issue 241 Topics (messages 5718 through 5728): TEST(MAIL PROBLEMS) 5718 by: Flymaca711689.cs.com http://www.krnet.org website 5719 by: Ross R. Youngblood KR-2 for Sport Pilots 5720 by: Manager Bill 5721 by: krwr1.zoominternet.net 5724 by: Manager Bill 5725 by: Frank Ross 5726 by: Christian Kogelmann 5728 by: Doug Peyton BRAKES AND WHEELS 5722 by: Robert Cooper Re: The KR gets airborn! 5723 by: Ron Eason Re: Sport Pilot 5727 by: virgnvs.juno.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:13:19 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Flymaca711689@cs.com Subject: TEST(MAIL PROBLEMS) Message-ID: <28.16e55d8b.285e06ef@cs.com> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 08:51:14 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Subject: http://www.krnet.org website Message-ID: <3B2CD1F2.D98B2141@home.com> Howdy Krnetters... I have paid for the move of krnet.org but the site is still not up just yet. I have pulled all of the data off teleport onto my PC but haven't uploaded it to the new location yet. I discovered Wednesday that my employeer (Philips) has decided to move our entire operation from Az to San-Jose... this leave 14 of us looking for jobs... so I have been doing job search stuff on the PC lately. Don't worry I think I will have somthing firmed up before my last day of work, but it has slowed the krnet.org transfer a bit. -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 10:53:05 +0000 To: avanwinter@sport.rr.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Manager Bill Subject: KR-2 for Sport Pilots Message-ID: <3B2C8C10.4745C21C@nm.net> Art and All: You need to increase the wing area. A crude but effective way to do this is simply extend the trailing edge aft. S.F. Hoerner in “Fluid Dynamic Lift,” page 4-14, gives the masimum lift of the RAF 48 as 1.46. The Sport Pilot plane must stall below 39 kt, so the maximum wing loading you can have is 7.53 pounds per square foot. For a KR-2 at 900 pounds, this requires 119.5 square feet (round it up to 120). A standard KR-2 has 78 square feet and just under 21 feet of span, so you need to ass 42 square feet to a 21 foot span. Extend the chord 24 inches aft and parallel to the lower wing surface. Fill in the upper surface by drawing a line from the maximum thickness to the trailing edge. Add ribs, foam and glass. No need to change the spars; thanks to keeping the span at 21 feet, they are still good for 4g limit load. Actually, they might be a little better, because some of the lift would be transferred to the rear spar and the load on the front spar would be reduced. You will need to pay some attention to the horizontal tail, but since you have moved the aerodynamic center of the wing aft about 6 inches, you will have a net gain in stability and the stability won’t change so radically with two people in the cockpit. And since you don’t really want ailerons with 30 inches of chord, you will need to build a false spar aft of the rear spar for aileron mounting. There are other considerations, too, but they are surprisingly simple. An EXTREMELY effective way to limit speed is to limit the prop pitch (Sport Pilots can only fly fixed pitch prop.) You want 130 mph max? That’s 191 feet per second. At 3600 rpm (I picked this number for convenience, it is 60 revs per second) your prop is advancing 3.18 feet, or 38 inches per revolution. Maybe they’d let you add ten percent because the prop is actually revolving in the slipstream, but that’s all. (You Corvair guys would take off like a rocket.) Or limit the engine to 3000 rpm; that’s stull 50 revs/sec and only 45.8 inches pitch. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 17:54:21 -0400 To: avanwinter@sport.rr.com, krnet@mailinglists.org, Manager Bill From: krwr1@zoominternet.net Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 for Sport Pilots Message-ID: <3B2CEECD.9902.2670347@localhost> I Have new e-mail, Pagasus. This is just a test. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 21:29:54 +0000 To: krwr1@zoominternet.net From: Manager Bill CC: avanwinter@sport.rr.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 for Sport Pilots Message-ID: <3B2D2150.267DFD4A@nm.net> Got your test OK. The Greek centaur was Pegasus, not Pagasus, if you care, and if someone else hasn't already seized the name. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:47:17 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 for Sport Pilots Message-ID: <20010618034717.28531.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> Bill, You'll have to go slow with me on this, I'm not an engineer. I don't follow the wing modification you describe. The KR is very short. Are you saying to make the wing two feet longer front-to-back when you say to add 24" to the chord? Won't this put it pretty near the horizontal stab? If you draw a new line from the highest point on the top of the wing to the new trailing edge, won't the new top of the wing now be a couple inches higher than the rear spar and won't that require some pretty considerable changes in not only the rear spar, but the seat and area of the fuselage the spar passes through? Which also means some changes in elevator control cables or rods, if I remember right. I think I just burned out some neurons trying to picture all this, so I'm just going to bed now. Let me know how far off my image of what you describe was. Thanks, Frank --- Manager Bill wrote: > Art and All: > You need to increase the wing area. A crude but > effective way to do this > is simply extend the trailing edge aft. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:58:32 +0200 To: "Krnet" , "Manager Bill" From: "Christian Kogelmann" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 for Sport Pilots Message-ID: <006801c0f82b$e20c1a20$851c2e3e@aptivacomputer> Dear Bill, remember the Austrian KR2S builder with the proof load schedule for the wing? I think I convinced my inspector not to do the proof load test. I hope I am not declaring this too early. Our (Inspector and me) reasoning is the following: -) We have your report on the structural capabilities of the KR2S -) I have another report using the Finite elemet analysis (more than 14.000 elements) this calculation was made with the actual values of the wood/foam/glas and steel. The analysis also acounted for the bending of the spars(wings). The margins calculated are more then 28% at 3.8g. (28% in tension, was the absolut minimum at the forward inner lower spar cap). The report is in german and zipped about 1.6MB big (all those nice pics). -) The building process was closely monitored by my inspector. I even have authority approval stamps inside the box spars. -) We know the exact property of the building material. Remember we had to sample the tree at 5 different locations in tension and compression. -) The inspector is 62 years of age and very experienced with wooden airplanes (also gliders). He had a good look at the airplane and testified that we produced good quality. (He tasted some glue samples with his tongue, stating, if it would taste sweet there would be too much hardener in the Resorcinol glue. Fancy that!) I am still planning to open a web site, but currently it is too much fun to work on the airplane. I thought I owe you the results of my negotiations with the authorities.... By the way, I am still looking for the last pages of your IJ-1 report wwhich I have up to page 8. Would it be possible for you to e-mail me the remaining pages? Jeanette also mentioned something about the different speeds at 1050lbs gross. Would you have the speeds by any chance as well? Bill I always enjoy your postings on the KRnet. Keep'em coming. Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Manager Bill To: ; Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 12:53 PM Subject: KR> KR-2 for Sport Pilots > Art and All: > > > You need to increase the wing area. A crude but effective way to do this > is simply extend the trailing edge aft. S.F. Hoerner in "Fluid Dynamic > Lift," page 4-14, gives the masimum lift of the RAF 48 as 1.46. The > Sport Pilot plane must stall below 39 kt, so the maximum wing loading > you can have is 7.53 pounds per square foot. For a KR-2 at 900 pounds, > this requires 119.5 square feet (round it up to 120). A standard KR-2 > has 78 square feet and just under 21 feet of span, so you need to ass 42 > square feet to a 21 foot span. Extend the chord 24 inches aft and > parallel to the lower wing surface. Fill in the upper surface by drawing > a line from the maximum thickness to the trailing edge. Add ribs, foam > and glass. No need to change the spars; thanks to keeping the span at 21 > feet, they are still good for 4g limit load. Actually, they might be a > little better, because some of the lift would be transferred to the rear > spar and the load on the front spar would be reduced. > > You will need to pay some attention to the horizontal tail, but since > you have moved the aerodynamic center of the wing aft about 6 inches, > you will have a net gain in stability and the stability won't change so > radically with two people in the cockpit. And since you don't really > want ailerons with 30 inches of chord, you will need to build a false > spar aft of the rear spar for aileron mounting. There are other > considerations, too, but they are surprisingly simple. > > An EXTREMELY effective way to limit speed is to limit the prop pitch > (Sport Pilots can only fly fixed pitch prop.) You want 130 mph max? > That's 191 feet per second. At 3600 rpm (I picked this number for > convenience, it is 60 revs per second) your prop is advancing 3.18 feet, > or 38 inches per revolution. Maybe they'd let you add ten percent > because the prop is actually revolving in the slipstream, but that's > all. (You Corvair guys would take off like a rocket.) Or limit the > engine to 3000 rpm; that's stull 50 revs/sec and only 45.8 inches pitch. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 18:53:01 +0200 To: kae_ar@yahoo.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Doug Peyton" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 for Sport Pilots Message-ID: Frank, I had to make a little change on something, and the following story certainly shows how one thing leads to another.... I've had quite an oddesy with the little KR-2 airplane. Since school was finished in April, I've been working long hours on it trying to finish it before I return to Germany. About two weeks ago, I finished it. I thought. I couldn't get it started, so I took it to a local little airplane expert and he got it started right away, but noticed it would not idle slower that 2,000 RPM. It would be ungood to try to land an airplane with an idleing speed of 2,000 RPM - need a runway about 10 miles long! He determined my carburetor was not the right size, so I ordered a new one. When the new carb came we discovered it would not fit, so we had to modify the engine mount to make more space for the new larger carb. So we cut out portions of the engine mount and welded in new tubes in appropriate places. So then we put everything back together and discovered the magneto could not be properly timed to the engine because the larger carburetor stuck up into the magneto's space. There is a bump on the magneto, and that bump wanted to go in the same polace as the carb. The only way to get around this was to remove the engine from the airplane, unbolt the magneto drive mechanism from the crankshaft and turn it 30 degrees back, and then put the whole thing back together. By turning the magneto drive 30 degrees, the bump on the mag case would be happy pointing sideways instead of straight down towards the carb. By this point, I had had lots of practice proping the engine by hand and decided I didn't want to go through life starting the airplane this way. So while I had the engine removed to adjust the magneot drive angle, I decided to install a starter. Dan was able to get his supply man to machine a new flywheel that same day, and I drove over to pick it up. The next morning we put the engine back together again, but the starter motor Dan had in stock was too small to turn a volkswagen engine as it was actually disigned for a two-cylinder two-stroke engine. But that's OK, I know where I can get the proper starter motor in Nebraska. Oh, and I had mounted the battery in the cockpit because i was worried about weight and balance; Dan said I had to move it up close to the starter motor and install some No. 4 cables to run the starter, as well as a started solonoid. I went over to the local welding shol and had them make up the cables out of that nice fine wire cable they use for electric welding. So anyway, my wight and balance turned out to be excellent and i could easily afford the shift in C.G. of moving the battery to the engine compartment. I made a battery box and mounted it in a open spot on the firewall and rerouted the mains from the alternator to the new battery location. So you can see I had quite a bit to do after I thought I was finished. I ran out of time and never did fly the airplane in Tulsa. A couple of days ago I packed up and moved to Duluth. Now I've found a test pilot here and am trying to get the airplane back together again so he can do it befor I need to go to Pittsburgh next Thursday. Turns out I can't move the airplane out of Oklahoma; the permit to fly it for the first 40 hours is only good there. This afternoon I called the FAA man who gave me the airworthiness permit and he said it should be no problem to transfer the permit to Minnesota, I just have to contact the Minnesot FSDO to change that paragraph of the permit. If this takes more than a day or two I shall not be able to fly the airplane before returning to Germany. But that's OK - Lore and I are returning to Duluth in July for vacation, and I can get it all done then if everything doesn't come together in the next four days.... I have to run out of obsticles eventually, right? Kindest Regards, Doug. From: Frank Ross To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 for Sport Pilots Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Bill, You'll have to go slow with me on this, I'm not an engineer. I don't follow the wing modification you describe. The KR is very short. Are you saying to make the wing two feet longer front-to-back when you say to add 24" to the chord? Won't this put it pretty near the horizontal stab? If you draw a new line from the highest point on the top of the wing to the new trailing edge, won't the new top of the wing now be a couple inches higher than the rear spar and won't that require some pretty considerable changes in not only the rear spar, but the seat and area of the fuselage the spar passes through? Which also means some changes in elevator control cables or rods, if I remember right. I think I just burned out some neurons trying to picture all this, so I'm just going to bed now. Let me know how far off my image of what you describe was. Thanks, Frank --- Manager Bill wrote: > Art and All: > You need to increase the wing area. A crude but > effective way to do this > is simply extend the trailing edge aft. ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 18:58:44 -0700 To: "krnet_1" From: "Robert Cooper" Subject: BRAKES AND WHEELS Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C0F75F.884745E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When I bought my KR in boat stage I also received a set of wheels and bra= kes. I was looking in Wicks catalog for some brake pads and rebuild parts= . Most parts are listed for a type of airplane, and I dont know what thes= e came off of. The wheels ard Goodyear 5.00X5 Type III, the brakes are Go= odyear part # 9530176. Does anyone know what these came from or where I c= an get a parts list. Any help appreciated. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C0F75F.884745E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:51:58 -0700 To: "John Bouyea" , From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> The KR gets airborn! Message-ID: <006401c0f7aa$06ecd820$966b1a41@Administration> Good idea! Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bouyea" To: Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 8:41 PM Subject: KR> The KR gets airborn! http://kr2s.bouyea.net/cur_proj/n5391m/flipomatic/Default.htm Well, ok, so I cheated! Here's my take of the Flip-O-Matic device. Thanks for all the posts to KRNet. John Bouyea KR2 - in rebuild KR2 - on the gear KR2S - boat stage http://www.bouyea.net john@bouyea.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:30:07 -0400 To: avanwinter@sport.rr.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Sport Pilot Message-ID: <20010618.184105.-358901.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Try the KR-1b, Virg On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:06:51 -0700 "ArtVanwinterswyke" writes: > Hello All, > My KR-2 is about 75% complete, I lost my medical but qualify under > the Sport Pilot Class. If it is possible, could we design a wing, > useing the standard wing roots, to put the KR within the limits of > the sport pilot aircraft. I am not an aeronautical engineer, but am > hoping, if I sacrifice the beautiful tapered outer wings for > something a little more like the old Cherokee 140 cracker box wings, > maybe I will get to fly my airplane. Could someone tell me where I > could get this type of help. > I think the KR is such an neat design and maybe with a little wing > modification it would also be open to the Sport Pilot group. Just > need to slow it down some and the wing modification could also lower > the stall speed a little. Thanks for your help. Art > avanwinter@sport.rr.com > ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************