From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 30 Aug 2001 17:24:37 -0000 Issue 280 Date: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:25 AM krnet Digest 30 Aug 2001 17:24:37 -0000 Issue 280 Topics (messages 6644 through 6667): Re: polystyrene wings 6644 by: Mark Jones 6647 by: Peter Johnson 6651 by: Richard Parker pushing the limits 6645 by: mac payne 6652 by: Barry Barkman Re: 7075-t6 6646 by: JEAN VERON Re: Foam 6648 by: John P Moyle Turbo 6649 by: bob_lee.juno.com 6650 by: JEAN VERON 6656 by: nikki Re: the story of ken and jeanette rand 6653 by: virgnvs.juno.com 6654 by: BillStarrs 6657 by: Philip J. Visconti Re: engine mount sketch 6655 by: Mark Langford Re: Weekend Flying, Almost Bit The Dust. 6658 by: Ross Youngblood Re: 40 hrs. 6659 by: Ross Youngblood Re: Gathering 6660 by: Ross Youngblood 6666 by: David & Jo Ann Lininger Re: Train for a KR2 in a Pietenpol? 6661 by: Ross Youngblood Re: N37LH Update 6662 by: Ross Youngblood Re: KR2 Plans Invetory 6663 by: Ross Youngblood Re: It PASSED!! 6664 by: Ross Youngblood N541RY Update 6665 by: Ross Youngblood Re: nose gear 6667 by: w.g. kirkland Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:00:14 -0500 To: anthony soldano From: Mark Jones CC: krnet@mailinglists.org, "Robert X. Cringely" Subject: Re: KR> polystyrene wings Message-ID: <3B8C4CAD.6E762AE6@execpc.com> Well, let me chime in on this one. If you plan on sanding the foam, you will wish you were dead by the time you are finished. If you are an expert at hot-wiring then it is an excellent choice. My reasoning behind this statement is I too bought the blue polystyrene from Home Depot. What a money saver I thought so I went for it and foamed my tail feathers and started sanding. Five hours later and two numb arms I was close to a finished surface. I am still working on the tail feathers and now have around 10 hours sanding and filling and sanding. My shoulders became so sore in the rotor cuffs from the sanding that my doctor gave me a shot of Cortisone in each one and they still are not totally healed as of today. I say do yourself a favor and use only the Polyurethane or an equivalent. Mark Jones anthony soldano wrote: > Hey guys > > what do you guys think of using polysterene for the wings?There will be no > fuel in the outer wings,just lights.home depot sells it in 4x8x2" sheets for > 9 dollars.my inner stubs will be polyurathane with fuel cells. > > thanks for the advice > Tony > ps.see you in pine bluff > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:44:13 -0700 To: From: "Peter Johnson" Subject: Re: KR> polystyrene wings Message-ID: <003601c13045$4f654c80$b809eccf@peter> Hi Tony. Regarding using polystyrene foam, what Mark Jones says about sanding is correct, the 'insulation' foam that you buy at the local retailer IS a pain to sand. What I found out some years ago is that polystyrene foam as it comes in billets for floating dock use is much easier to sand. The foam is the same weight as the insulation foam, about 2 lbs/cuft. Its structure is different though, larger 'pores', it is this factor that makes it much easier to sand. The billets are 1 ft x 2 ft x 8 ft, it's not hard, but you will have to come up with a process to cut the foam, this is where a hotwire bed would work wonders. The foam billet is also much cheaper per cubic foot than the insulation foam. Hope this helps..... mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "anthony soldano" To: ; "Robert X. Cringely" Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 6:18 PM Subject: Re: KR> polystyrene wings > Hey guys > > what do you guys think of using polysterene for the wings?There will be no > fuel in the outer wings,just lights.home depot sells it in 4x8x2" sheets for > 9 dollars.my inner stubs will be polyurathane with fuel cells. > > > thanks for the advice > Tony > ps.see you in pine bluff > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:59:56 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Richard Parker" Subject: Re: KR> polystyrene wings Message-ID: I used a palm sander with 28 grit for roughing and 100 grit for final sanding. Let the machine do the work. Even better, a long pneumatic board sander would work slicker than a wet dog turd. Some guys have attached a 3-4 foot peice of pvc covered in sandapaper to a drill and used that. Put a handle on the end opposite the drill to hold it. (no cortizone necessary) Rich Parker >Well, let me chime in on this one. If you plan on sanding the foam, you >will >wish you were dead by the time you are finished. If you are an expert at >hot-wiring then it is an excellent choice. My reasoning behind this >statement is >I too bought the blue polystyrene from Home Depot. What a money saver I >thought >so I went for it and foamed my tail feathers and started sanding. Five >hours >later and two numb arms I was close to a finished surface. I am still >working on >the tail feathers and now have around 10 hours sanding and filling and >sanding. >My shoulders became so sore in the rotor cuffs from the sanding that my >doctor >gave me a shot of Cortisone in each one and they still are not totally >healed as >of today. I say do yourself a favor and use only the Polyurethane or an >equivalent. >Mark Jones > >anthony soldano wrote: > > > Hey guys > > > > what do you guys think of using polysterene for the wings?There will be >no > > fuel in the outer wings,just lights.home depot sells it in 4x8x2" sheets >for > > 9 dollars.my inner stubs will be polyurathane with fuel cells. > > > > thanks for the advice > > Tony > > ps.see you in pine bluff > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > >-- >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Wales, WI USA >E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com >Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at >http://sites.netscape.net/n886mj/homepage > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:02:23 -0400 To: From: "mac payne" Subject: pushing the limits Message-ID: <005101c1302e$a546e440$557f0618@ganvil1.ga.home.com> i feel a sermon coming on...... any pilot with any hours, and one worth his salt, pushes the envelop to learn... and the ones who benefit from the lessons go on to push further the next time from those previous experiences... and the pattern of learning to be a real pilot begins. with that, and the grace of God, there really are a few old bold pilots. but those are the ones who always knew the difference between pushing the envelop and foolhearty decisions. even so, i've made them, you've made them, we've all made them... but by the power of the Almighty we hope that having once survived them, we won't make such ill-advised decisions again. know your craft, know your limits, and leave yourself a way out. if you're a KR driver, you've proven to be a "bold" pilot... now let's all keep working toward the "old" part. like not letting a KR get into an inverted flat spin, (ahem).... now, let's all stand and sing..... Mac ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert X. Cringely" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:31 PM Subject: Re: KR> the story of ken and jeanette rand > I built my KR-1 back in the 1970s from the original $25 plans (total > cost including engine was $1300). During that period I met Kenny > Rand several times because I live in Northern California but was > flying the KR back and forth to Southern California twice a week for > work. I did 400 hours that way in one year. While I have no > knowledge of how he died that goes beyond reading the same accounts > and hearing the same stories that others have read and heard, I did > fly with Kenny a couple times in the original KR-2 and was familiar > with that airplane. > > Kenny was a low time pilot with only a few hundred hours total time. > The plane, itself, was probably the lightest KR-2 ever built. Part > of this lightness came from Kenny's decision to carry as little > equipment as possible and part came from his method of construction. > I think both of these characteristics (equipment and construction > philosophy) play into the story of his death. Neither Kenny nor his > airplane were in any way equipped to handle IFR conditions. Kenny's > light construction would look shoddy to most of us. Frankly, his > standards were low. This made for a light airframe and I am not at > all claiming that the airframe was at fault. But I am saying that a > guy who would build and fly in the kind of airframe that Kenny found > acceptable, well he just wouldn't be what I would call "careful." > He's the kind of guy who might well take a chance on squeaking > through VFR or finding a field open despite the weather. > > We tend to deify our heroes. Kenny Rand did us all a wonderful > service by inventing the KR-1 and -2. But that doesn't mean he was a > good pilot or a wise man when it came to decisions involving his > personal safety. He left a wife and two little girls and I blame > nobody but him for that. > > > Bob > > > > > > > >Here is the story that I was told by (as I remember it) Mrs. Rand: I traveled > >for a living for over 30 years and I could go and visit these places about > >aviation, I visited Mrs. Rand in California, and I was at the 20th > >year dinner > >in Oshkosh honoring Ken Rand. I do not remember the year I went to > >California, > >but I think it was about 5 years after Ken died. I am known by Mrs. Rand. > > > >Mrs., Rand, told me that Ken was flying back from Florida and stopped in Van > >Horn, Texas to refuel and to work on the carburetor. When he got to the Los > >Angles area it was weathered in. Ken knew the weather was bad > >before he got to > >the LA area, but he had a cabin in the mountain with a landing strip that was > >always above the clouds and he had many times landed on this strip. But this > >time it was not, he simply ran out of gas. He died 5 miles from home. > > > >I ask you this question, was Ken a stupid man? I do not think so. If > >Ken new the > >weather was bad in the LA area why would he have not stopped before getting to > >that area. The answer in my mind is the ace on the hole was the > >landing strip in > >the mountains that he had always used before in cases like this. > > > >The urge to get home has killed a lot of good pilots. Ken Rand's > >death should be > >a lesson to all pilots, you can get home tomorrow or the next or the > >next or the > >next day is far better than coming home in a casket or never. > >Sincerely, > >R. W. Moore, Publisher > >The Truth Newspaper, Inc. > >Two Free PDF copies of The Truth Newspaper, Inc. to all that asks. > > > > > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:56:52 -0400 To: 'mac payne' , krnet@mailinglists.org From: Barry Barkman Subject: RE: KR> pushing the limits Message-ID: ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13092.74A7B170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" AMEN! Thanks Barry Barkman Saxon Business Systems Barry@saxon.net (305) 362-0100 x9298 -----Original Message----- From: mac payne [mailto:macpayne@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:02 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> pushing the limits i feel a sermon coming on...... any pilot with any hours, and one worth his salt, pushes the envelop to learn... and the ones who benefit from the lessons go on to push further the next time from those previous experiences... and the pattern of learning to be a real pilot begins. with that, and the grace of God, there really are a few old bold pilots. but those are the ones who always knew the difference between pushing the envelop and foolhearty decisions. even so, i've made them, you've made them, we've all made them... but by the power of the Almighty we hope that having once survived them, we won't make such ill-advised decisions again. know your craft, know your limits, and leave yourself a way out. if you're a KR driver, you've proven to be a "bold" pilot... now let's all keep working toward the "old" part. like not letting a KR get into an inverted flat spin, (ahem).... now, let's all stand and sing..... Mac ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert X. Cringely" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:31 PM Subject: Re: KR> the story of ken and jeanette rand > I built my KR-1 back in the 1970s from the original $25 plans (total > cost including engine was $1300). During that period I met Kenny > Rand several times because I live in Northern California but was > flying the KR back and forth to Southern California twice a week for > work. I did 400 hours that way in one year. While I have no > knowledge of how he died that goes beyond reading the same accounts > and hearing the same stories that others have read and heard, I did > fly with Kenny a couple times in the original KR-2 and was familiar > with that airplane. > > Kenny was a low time pilot with only a few hundred hours total time. > The plane, itself, was probably the lightest KR-2 ever built. Part > of this lightness came from Kenny's decision to carry as little > equipment as possible and part came from his method of construction. > I think both of these characteristics (equipment and construction > philosophy) play into the story of his death. Neither Kenny nor his > airplane were in any way equipped to handle IFR conditions. Kenny's > light construction would look shoddy to most of us. Frankly, his > standards were low. This made for a light airframe and I am not at > all claiming that the airframe was at fault. But I am saying that a > guy who would build and fly in the kind of airframe that Kenny found > acceptable, well he just wouldn't be what I would call "careful." > He's the kind of guy who might well take a chance on squeaking > through VFR or finding a field open despite the weather. > > We tend to deify our heroes. Kenny Rand did us all a wonderful > service by inventing the KR-1 and -2. But that doesn't mean he was a > good pilot or a wise man when it came to decisions involving his > personal safety. He left a wife and two little girls and I blame > nobody but him for that. > > > Bob > > > > > > > >Here is the story that I was told by (as I remember it) Mrs. Rand: I traveled > >for a living for over 30 years and I could go and visit these places about > >aviation, I visited Mrs. Rand in California, and I was at the 20th > >year dinner > >in Oshkosh honoring Ken Rand. I do not remember the year I went to > >California, > >but I think it was about 5 years after Ken died. I am known by Mrs. Rand. > > > >Mrs., Rand, told me that Ken was flying back from Florida and stopped in Van > >Horn, Texas to refuel and to work on the carburetor. When he got to the Los > >Angles area it was weathered in. Ken knew the weather was bad > >before he got to > >the LA area, but he had a cabin in the mountain with a landing strip that was > >always above the clouds and he had many times landed on this strip. But this > >time it was not, he simply ran out of gas. He died 5 miles from home. > > > >I ask you this question, was Ken a stupid man? I do not think so. If > >Ken new the > >weather was bad in the LA area why would he have not stopped before getting to > >that area. The answer in my mind is the ace on the hole was the > >landing strip in > >the mountains that he had always used before in cases like this. > > > >The urge to get home has killed a lot of good pilots. Ken Rand's > >death should be > >a lesson to all pilots, you can get home tomorrow or the next or the > >next or the > >next day is far better than coming home in a casket or never. > >Sincerely, > >R. W. Moore, Publisher > >The Truth Newspaper, Inc. > >Two Free PDF copies of The Truth Newspaper, Inc. to all that asks. > > > > > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13092.74A7B170-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:06:32 -0500 To: "Edwin Blocher" , "Mark Langford" , "krnet" From: "JEAN VERON" Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR> 7075-t6 Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C13005.507FB140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I bought my 5/8" gear for my sonerai II from Great Planes . Why not suppo= rt a KR guy. Jean N4DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Edwin Blocher Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:55 PM To: Edwin Blocher; Mark Langford; KRNet Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR> 7075-t6 I should have included this in my previous reply. www.groveaircraft.com .= He will send you a catalog which is good reding even if you dont buy from hi= m and it has a form to fill out for a quote for exactly what you want. Dave Mullins will also give you a good recommendation for him. Ed Blocher Crestview, FL Blocher@cyou.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Edwin Blocher To: Mark Langford ; KRNet Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:34 PM Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR> 7075-t6 > Robbie Grove made my gear, 7/8 X 41/2 " to my width and height > specifications, drilled for O'Brien brake/wheel assembly and gun drille= d for > the brake lines to my specifications for $650.00 and it is guaranteed n= o > matter how you damage it, replacement is no charge. To me it was one of= my > very few no-brainers. It weighs 28#. > Ed Blocher > Crestview, FL > Blocher@cyou.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Langford > To: KRNet > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 5:27 PM > Subject: KR> Re: KR> 7075-t6 > > > > > Anyone know where I can buy some 7075-T6 bar stock size 5/8x5" to m= ake a > > new > > > gear spring for My Sonerai? > > > > Maybe you know that Grove Aircraft at > > http://www.groveaircraft.com/soneri.html makes landing gear for the > Sonerai. > > They will even customize it a bit for about the same price, I'm told. > > There's something to be said for doing it yourself, but be advised th= at > > bending this stuff is going to require a pretty big bending brake, wh= ich > > isn't going to be terribly easy to find. > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C13005.507FB140-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:45:32 -0700 To: mike@wolftreeinc.com From: John P Moyle Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Foam Message-ID: <20010828.200317.-328221.1.jmoyle1@juno.com> Mike, Explore you local phone directory under the "insulation contractors/supplies" category. I found a great source for Dow and Owen Corning rigid foam products right here in Fresno, CA. They even have a ten foot CNC hot wire cutter !! I paid average retail prices, but no shipping charges, and got great service. Worth a try, whatever your location. John Moyle On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:44:32 -0400 "Mike Wolf" writes: > I am moving beyond the "boat stage and was wondering is there > anyplace to > get foam other than mail ordering? I have checked with some foam > outlets and > all they have is foam rubber or polystyrene. I plan on checking with > a local > boat builder he is a composite guru and may be able to help. > Another > question is on the weight, is there any kind of info on how much > some of the > sub assemblies oughta weigh? my boat with gear and center spars wing > stubs n > stuff weighs 130 lbs is this in the ballpark? Also, I am still in > the market > for a powerplant and am not totally sure on which way I will go if > anyone > has one for sale I may be interested, thanks > Mike > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other > system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:29:50 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: bob_lee@juno.com Subject: Turbo Message-ID: <20010829.202951.197.8.bob_lee@juno.com> Is anyone using a turbo? I'm completing the installation of my engine and currently working on exhaust and oil system for the turbo. I would like to bang ideas off of someone with experience. I don't want to kick off the thread of "to turbo or not to turbo", I'm just looking for another nut like me that wants a high and fast KR. I need an experienced nut to compare notes with. Regards, Bob Lee ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:08:25 -0500 To: , "krnet" From: "JEAN VERON" Subject: Re: KR> Turbo Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C13061.C76301C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan Diehl had a turbo on " Old Blue " before i got her. (918-299-4445 ). Jean N4DD ----- Original Message ----- From: bob_lee@juno.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:34 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Turbo Is anyone using a turbo? I'm completing the installation of my engine and currently working on exhaust and oil system for the turbo. I would like to bang ideas off of someone with experience. I don't want to kick off the thread of "to turbo or not to turbo", I'm just looking for another nut like me that wants a high and fast KR. I need an experienced nut to compare notes with. Regards, Bob Lee ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C13061.C76301C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:30:16 -0700 To: From: "nikki" Subject: turbo Message-ID: <002901c130ea$f2130da0$0101a8c0@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C130B0.44C011A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Im interested in a turbo on the corvair i am about to build( they came = stock on the Corvair spyder,150 h.p)I am at about 7800 feet altitude.if = you are putting thin a v.w. , what is your compression ratio? forged or = steel billet crank? chevy rods? Thanks, Jim sporka ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C130B0.44C011A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:01:53 -0400 To: bob@cringely.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> the story of ken and jeanette rand Message-ID: <20010829.100536.-346351.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Original KR=1 310# with electrics 340# Virg On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:31:57 -0700 "Robert X. Cringely" writes: > I built my KR-1 back in the 1970s from the original $25 plans (total > > cost including engine was $1300). During that period I met Kenny > Rand several times because I live in Northern California but was > flying the KR back and forth to Southern California twice a week for > > work. I did 400 hours that way in one year. While I have no > knowledge of how he died that goes beyond reading the same accounts > > and hearing the same stories that others have read and heard, I did > > fly with Kenny a couple times in the original KR-2 and was familiar > > with that airplane. > > Kenny was a low time pilot with only a few hundred hours total time. > > The plane, itself, was probably the lightest KR-2 ever built. Part > > of this lightness came from Kenny's decision to carry as little > equipment as possible and part came from his method of construction. > > I think both of these characteristics (equipment and construction > philosophy) play into the story of his death. Neither Kenny nor his > > airplane were in any way equipped to handle IFR conditions. Kenny's > > light construction would look shoddy to most of us. Frankly, his > standards were low. This made for a light airframe and I am not at > > all claiming that the airframe was at fault. But I am saying that a > > guy who would build and fly in the kind of airframe that Kenny found > > acceptable, well he just wouldn't be what I would call "careful." > He's the kind of guy who might well take a chance on squeaking > through VFR or finding a field open despite the weather. > > We tend to deify our heroes. Kenny Rand did us all a wonderful > service by inventing the KR-1 and -2. But that doesn't mean he was > a > good pilot or a wise man when it came to decisions involving his > personal safety. He left a wife and two little girls and I blame > nobody but him for that. > > > Bob > > > > > > > >Here is the story that I was told by (as I remember it) Mrs. Rand: > I traveled > >for a living for over 30 years and I could go and visit these > places about > >aviation, I visited Mrs. Rand in California, and I was at the 20th > > >year dinner > >in Oshkosh honoring Ken Rand. I do not remember the year I went to > > >California, > >but I think it was about 5 years after Ken died. I am known by > Mrs. Rand. > > > >Mrs., Rand, told me that Ken was flying back from Florida and > stopped in Van > >Horn, Texas to refuel and to work on the carburetor. When he got to > the Los > >Angles area it was weathered in. Ken knew the weather was bad > >before he got to > >the LA area, but he had a cabin in the mountain with a landing > strip that was > >always above the clouds and he had many times landed on this > strip. But this > >time it was not, he simply ran out of gas. He died 5 miles from > home. > > > >I ask you this question, was Ken a stupid man? I do not think so. > If > >Ken new the > >weather was bad in the LA area why would he have not stopped before > getting to > >that area. The answer in my mind is the ace on the hole was the > >landing strip in > >the mountains that he had always used before in cases like this. > > > >The urge to get home has killed a lot of good pilots. Ken Rand's > >death should be > >a lesson to all pilots, you can get home tomorrow or the next or > the > >next or the > >next day is far better than coming home in a casket or never. > >Sincerely, > >R. W. Moore, Publisher > >The Truth Newspaper, Inc. > >Two Free PDF copies of The Truth Newspaper, Inc. to all that > asks. > > > > > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other > system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:53:24 -0700 To: , "Robert X. Cringely" From: "BillStarrs" Subject: Re: KR> the story of ken and jeanette rand Message-ID: <002a01c130b3$807adf60$02defea9@bstarrs> What is all this crap about poor judgment, poor workmanship, low time pilot? Give it a rest no one was there. No one knows twit about what went on yet so many are all too ready to pass judgement after the fact. What goes around comes around. Your turn will come. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert X. Cringely" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 5:31 PM Subject: Re: KR> the story of ken and jeanette rand > I built my KR-1 back in the 1970s from the original $25 plans (total > cost including engine was $1300). During that period I met Kenny > Rand several times because I live in Northern California but was > flying the KR back and forth to Southern California twice a week for > work. I did 400 hours that way in one year. While I have no > knowledge of how he died that goes beyond reading the same accounts > and hearing the same stories that others have read and heard, I did > fly with Kenny a couple times in the original KR-2 and was familiar > with that airplane. > > Kenny was a low time pilot with only a few hundred hours total time. > The plane, itself, was probably the lightest KR-2 ever built. Part > of this lightness came from Kenny's decision to carry as little > equipment as possible and part came from his method of construction. > I think both of these characteristics (equipment and construction > philosophy) play into the story of his death. Neither Kenny nor his > airplane were in any way equipped to handle IFR conditions. Kenny's > light construction would look shoddy to most of us. Frankly, his > standards were low. This made for a light airframe and I am not at > all claiming that the airframe was at fault. But I am saying that a > guy who would build and fly in the kind of airframe that Kenny found > acceptable, well he just wouldn't be what I would call "careful." > He's the kind of guy who might well take a chance on squeaking > through VFR or finding a field open despite the weather. > > We tend to deify our heroes. Kenny Rand did us all a wonderful > service by inventing the KR-1 and -2. But that doesn't mean he was a > good pilot or a wise man when it came to decisions involving his > personal safety. He left a wife and two little girls and I blame > nobody but him for that. > > > Bob > > > > > > > >Here is the story that I was told by (as I remember it) Mrs. Rand: I traveled > >for a living for over 30 years and I could go and visit these places about > >aviation, I visited Mrs. Rand in California, and I was at the 20th > >year dinner > >in Oshkosh honoring Ken Rand. I do not remember the year I went to > >California, > >but I think it was about 5 years after Ken died. I am known by Mrs. Rand. > > > >Mrs., Rand, told me that Ken was flying back from Florida and stopped in Van > >Horn, Texas to refuel and to work on the carburetor. When he got to the Los > >Angles area it was weathered in. Ken knew the weather was bad > >before he got to > >the LA area, but he had a cabin in the mountain with a landing strip that was > >always above the clouds and he had many times landed on this strip. But this > >time it was not, he simply ran out of gas. He died 5 miles from home. > > > >I ask you this question, was Ken a stupid man? I do not think so. If > >Ken new the > >weather was bad in the LA area why would he have not stopped before getting to > >that area. The answer in my mind is the ace on the hole was the > >landing strip in > >the mountains that he had always used before in cases like this. > > > >The urge to get home has killed a lot of good pilots. Ken Rand's > >death should be > >a lesson to all pilots, you can get home tomorrow or the next or the > >next or the > >next day is far better than coming home in a casket or never. > >Sincerely, > >R. W. Moore, Publisher > >The Truth Newspaper, Inc. > >Two Free PDF copies of The Truth Newspaper, Inc. to all that asks. > > > > > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:35:37 -0400 To: bstarrs@cybertrails.com From: "Philip J. Visconti" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org, bob@cringely.com Subject: Re: KR> the story of ken and jeanette rand Message-ID: <20010829.224625.-355217.0.viscan@juno.com> Bill, THANK YOU !!! Enough is enough everyone. Let it go . Please. Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:45:58 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> engine mount sketch Message-ID: <000701c130d3$fd4d9f80$7000a8c0@athlon600> Yesterday I wrote: > the materials, which are 5/8" .049" wall 4130 square and round tubing, I guess I had the stock mount dimensions on my mind, but the tubing that the Corvair people are using is one size LARGER, .75" in diameter, but still .049" wall. I hope nobody's bought any 4130 yet... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:36:02 -0700 To: GARYKR2@cs.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Weekend Flying, Almost Bit The Dust. Message-ID: <3B8D8A72.56249056@home.com> Gary, Thanks for the heads up. I'm not yet planning on doing any rolls in my KR, but they seem like a reasonable 1G maneuver. Perhaps someone with aerobatic training can comment. -- Regards Ross (Reminds me of a EAAer's story about doing a power on stall then cutting power in a 152. Thing goes upside down into some nifty textbook aerobatic maneuver I don't recall.) GARYKR2@cs.com wrote: > > First, CompuServe decided to start letting the NET thru. I guess the > bitching paid off. > I was doing rolls at low speed and somehow got my "2" in an inverted spin. > Somehow I got her flipped over into a normal spin. She didn't want to come > out. Full down elevator with bursts of power finally got the nose down enough > to stop the spin. > Wing tanks were empty, header 3/4 full. C/G OK. I put that in there > because some one would tell me that the plane was out of balance. I wanted it > nose heavy incase a spin wanted to go flat. > I thought I was going to buy the farm on this one. It took over 2000ft to > get it out. I had less than 600ft left when she came out. > I have been playing it over in my head(not all the time by choice), and > still am not sure what went wrong. > The last words I spoke before she pulled out were " I'm really f#%$ed this > time, Liz [my wife) is going to be pissed". Don't ask me why, but that's what > I said out loud. > I was only about 3mi from the airport, so headed straight back. I was ill > to the point that the first approach was to high and fast, so had to go > around. > The moral is don't give up flying the airplane till you splat. This > happened yesterday, I plan to go fly tomorrow. You know the get back in the > saddle thing. > No mater what anybody thinks, someone was helping me. You know what I mean? > Gary Hinkle (A/P, COMM, INST, MULTI) Middletown, Pa. > garykr2@cs.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:43:50 -0700 To: Dean Selby From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet Subject: Re: KR> 40 hrs. Message-ID: <3B8D8C46.B3926E29@home.com> Dean, Congratulations on the 40 Hrs. I have a couple of questions, seeing that I have an 1835cc VW in my KR (not yet flying). 1) What is your approximate loaded weight when you fly. 2) What is your density altitude? I'm here in Phoenix approx 1200' but 100+ degrees, can you say DENSITY altitude? (Well Jeff Scott has real density altitude in Los Almos) -- Ross Dean Selby wrote: > > For those of you that may be interested I have completed the first 40 hr. in the KR. I still have a couple of weight combinations to do flight test in; but, so far so good. Yes I will have to admit with a 1915 VW I am slightly underpowered but it handles the load ok. At gross I am climbing out around 400fpm on a warm day. I guess I can live with that. Anyway just FYI. > > Dean Selby > deans@usit.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:56:37 -0700 To: Mark Langford From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Gathering Message-ID: <3B8D8F45.7E835987@home.com> Mark, Thanks for posting the gathering stuff... With my new job, and the economy, I am stuck without any time off to fly out this year. The KR is not flying yet, but I have access to a flying club airplane.. if I can sneek out I will try to be there and help pay for the beer! -- Ross Mark Langford wrote: > > Bob Lee wrote: > > > What are the particulars on this year's Gathering? Is there a hotel set > > up with a discount for the group? > > The "Official" 2001 KR Gathering will be in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, September > 21-23 with Tommy Waymack hosting the affair this time around (870-535-3294 > or email him at blindate@seark.net). We recommend the Best Western Pines > Motel ($59) at 800-528-1234 or 870-535-8640 or The Hampton Inn 800-HAMPTON > or 870-850-0444. Mention you are with the KR Gathering to get a discount > rate. > Tentative Gathering Schedule: > Thursday, Sept 20 - the real die-hards arrive > Friday, Sept 21 - arrivals and hangar flying > Saturday, Sept 22 - flying, demonstrations, judging > Sunday, Sept 23 - farewells and departures > We will have the same hangar that we had in 1997. Pine Bluff is located > about 40 miles south of Little Rock, Arkansas at the end of Interstate 530. > > You can expect about 10-25 KRs to fly in for the Gathering, depending on > weather. This is THE place to put your hands on real KR aircraft so don't > miss it! Most everybody that wants a ride in one gets it. You won't likely > forget it soon either. We will once again have dinner catered Friday evening > along with lunch on Saturday. > > More importantly, Ed's bringing a keg of beer... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 06:12:43 -0500 To: From: "David & Jo Ann Lininger" Subject: Re: KR> Gathering Message-ID: <3B8DD95C.30000.1AC9D3@localhost> Friends: We had sort of planned to attend the gathering this year, since it is only about 7-8 hours driving time from here. Unfortunately, we're not going to be able to make it. We are right on US 65, about 50 miles north of Springfield, Missouri. If anyone is driving down that way and wants to stop in, let me know. We've got room for a few sleeping bags, and if you have an RV we have plenty of room to park. Maybe next year??? 73 David, KBOZKE kb0zke@arrl.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:01:40 -0700 To: CS From: Ross Youngblood CC: crome@usa.net, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Train for a KR2 in a Pietenpol? Message-ID: <3B8D9074.F7B33BEB@home.com> I heard a friend years ago tell me about a Pietenpol at his field (he built a autogyro). One day in high winds the Pietenpol came in for a landing. The ground speed was so slow, and the wind was gusting so powerfully that two people on either side of the plane nearly pulled the thing onto the ground. Sounds like a nice slow airplane to fly in... except for that model A radiator blocking your view. -- Ross CS wrote: > > Hi... > > If you can get the airplane "for a song," as you say, > then buy it. Even though it may not translate > directly into "KR time," there's no substitute for > experience. Any time spent flying is worth a whole > lot more than time spent thinking about flying. > > But be sure and get transition training before you go > off la-de-da in a KR...from what I gather, you'll need > it. > > Plus when you're done you can sell the Pietenpol. > > My .02 > > Chuck > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:06:04 -0700 To: Mark Langford From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> N37LH Update Message-ID: <3B8D917C.D69A50DE@home.com> Wow... that is one NICE example of a KR-1! Next time I fly GA up to Oregon, I will make a point to stop by and take a look at it. -- Ross Mark Langford wrote: > > Lynn sent me a new version of his web page, which shows his amazingly > massive engine stuffed into his KR1. You gotta see it at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/lhyder/ ... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:16:57 -0700 To: Shane Daly From: Ross Youngblood CC: KR list Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR2 Plans Invetory Message-ID: <3B8D9409.A2E6F035@home.com> What you describe sounds about right. Two large blueprints, and the manual. There is also a KR-2S supplement available now which I don't have. Not quite as comforting as a heathkit set of plans, but there is enough information to build an airplane. One tip... after 12 years in my build process I found that buying those 3 ring page protectors was a great plus for the plans. All of my binder pages were inserted in these page protectors. I bought the good ones, more expensive but they haven't yellowed or gotten brittle, and the plans have traveled from Phoenix, to Oregon and back to Phoenix. In Oregon, they sat in a damp hangar for several years. The binder is showing wear, but the pages are still like new. Also, they are protected from epoxy, and micro dust. The pages are expensive, so I bought them like I bought C-clamps. A few every month until I had enough to finish the job... -- Ross Shane Daly wrote: > > Thanks everyone, but it is just the literature that comes with the plans that I was interested in. I have the Construction Manual #1000 (64pgs) and a single sheet drawing with top and side views on one side and the wing ribs on the other. I also have copies of most of the KR news letters. I was just wondering if there should be any more? Given the info that I do have and this list I don't foresee any reasons why, beyond financial, I cannot finish the plane. > > Once again, thanks for all the help and input, > > Shane > http://www.innovativewings.com/KR2.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:28:02 -0700 To: PhilKR2S@aol.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> It PASSED!! Message-ID: <3B8D96A2.75F967AF@home.com> Phil, This is a terrific looking KR2-S! WOW! -- Ross PhilKR2S@aol.com wrote: > > The DAR was out to my hangar on Saturday to inspect my KR2S. After keeping > my on needles for about an hour, he passed it with no squawks. N39PP is now > ready for test flying. > > You can see the start of my web page at > http://members.aol.com/philkr2s/myhomepage/profile.html > It's a start with a lot of work to bring the pictures up to the current > time but you can see the end product as the first picture. > > My problem is that I received my PPL while building and haven't followed up > since completing it two years ago due to health problems. > > Now, I'm a low time (<80 hours), not current (fixing that), and unaccustomed > to spirited handling airplanes (harder to fix). The health problems are > behind me, so I'm ready to get N39PP in the air. > > I'm looking for a current KR pilot who would like to make the first flight. > To give you a little info on the plane, It's a standard KR2S on tri-gear that > was widened about one inch in the cockpit, push-pull rod operated ailerons > and elevator. The elevator is counterbalanced. The rudder is cable > operated. > > The trim is MAC, a single center control stick contains the control switches. > > The engine is a O-200, mid-time, with a three blade WarpDrive. The radio is > a Microair 760. Cowl tanks holds 18 gals, the inboard wing tanks could hold > 8 gals each but I don't know if I'll ever need them. It's just easier to > build them in during construction than going back afterwards. > > The empty weight is 732 lbs with the CG at 20.57 inches. With everything > onboard, the total gross 1190 at a CG of 26.23. This within the calculated > range of 22.6 - 28.6 inches from the firewall. The empty CG is within as > long as the pilot weighs at least 100 lbs (definitely not my problem). > > If someone is interested in helping me test, either email me > (philkr2s@aol.com) or call me at (919)489-5734. > > The plane is currently at 5W5 south of Raleigh, NC. > > Thanks, > > Phil Payne > > (Breathing a LARGE sigh of relief) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:36:47 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: N541RY Update Message-ID: <3B8D98AF.9AF626DA@home.com> Well I have tomorrow off, so I am going to do some finish work in preperation for a trip to the airport. I'm looking to see if I can find a hangar to keep the plane out of the hot Arizona sun between taxi trials. I'm not looking forward to rigging and de-rigging the wings every day. My new job has me visiting various IC test companies here in Phoenix, and it turns out that six of the engineers I've met this week are pilots. One is building a Cozy, and another is looking to share his hangar. It's on the north side of Phoenix a 40 minute drive (no traffic), but its a place to park the KR out of the sun. He is building a house in Payson (Mountains) with an attached Hangar, but doesn't want to give up his hangar in Phoenix, as it would be 10 years before he could get another one. I'm also looking into the future home of the Copperstate Fly-in. They just paved a runway out in the middle of the desert and call it the Phoenix Regional Airport. They are selling lots for hangars/houses... so if it isn't too $$ I may go that route. It's 30 miles south, but no traffic to speak of. Unlike the rest of the country, my activity starts speeding up after October once it cools down. -- Regards Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:08:39 -0400 To: "Doherty Al" , From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: Re: KR> nose gear Message-ID: <000501c13178$f7d8c660$13b45bd1@utboopki> I am in a similar situation. Would you include me in ur responses. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doherty Al" To: Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 8:02 PM Subject: KR> nose gear > I want to install a nose gear on my KR2.It has the > soob engine with an oil pan hanging below. The gear > has to be really light weight. > Has anyone got suggestions as to types available? > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************