From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 14 Sep 2001 01:59:25 -0000 Issue 289 Date: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:59 PM krnet Digest 14 Sep 2001 01:59:25 -0000 Issue 289 Topics (messages 6901 through 6930): KR Gathering 6901 by: Jim Faughn 6902 by: David & Jo Ann Lininger 6907 by: Screwy Squirrel 6912 by: Glenn Anderson 6913 by: Laheze.aol.com 6915 by: Bo124rs.aol.com 6917 by: Philip J. Visconti FAA Control 6903 by: Philip J. Visconti 6904 by: CS 6906 by: Ron Lee 6911 by: HAshraf.aol.com 6914 by: Laheze.aol.com VIRUS 6905 by: Ron Eason Virus hoaxes 6908 by: Screwy Squirrel Cat fish 6909 by: ROBERT COOPER Re: WAF stress analysis 6910 by: GARYKR2.cs.com 6918 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER e-mail subject line 6916 by: larry flesner Let's all help a little. 6919 by: GoFlySlow2.aol.com C.G./landings/"long" 6920 by: larry flesner Uh-oh...the Gathering 6921 by: CS flight restrictions 6922 by: larry flesner 6928 by: Daniel Heath Love of Flying 6923 by: James J. Zuehls 6924 by: Ron Lee Be careful kids...Mom is still grumpy 6925 by: Randy Stein 6930 by: Robert Stone constant speed props 6926 by: POND CARTER 6927 by: Daniel Heath Is this the right plane? (KR-2S) 6929 by: Stuart Deal Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:35:45 -0500 To: "KR Net Response" From: "Jim Faughn" Subject: KR Gathering Message-ID: Previously I mentioned that I thought I had found the root cause of my engine problems for the last few years. This problem ended up being that we had mismarked the top dead center for the engine by about 3 degrees. This resulted in my timing the engine without enought advance in the timing. For those that wonder what this will cause, it is a high EGT from the lack of complete combustion of the fuel resulting in still buring fuel as the exhaust valve opens. What I have done is remark the top dead center and I was able to fly the plane on Monday evening and the EGT dropped significantly. However, it wasn't enough. After talking to some engine experts at work, we agreed I should advance it another 2 degrees. Unfortunately on Tuesday, my airport was VERY closed. This made me think about the freedoms we enjoy and how proud I am to be able to experiment with and fly a plane I built myself. Tonight I went over to the airport where they were repainting the runway strips and added 2 more degrees of advance. On test run-up, this resulted in a lower EGT than I've seen on run-up for MANY years. I believe I have my power back in my engine to what it was in the "old days." What I also noticed was that with the new timing, the leaning was less than I had on Monday evening. To me, this means that I know I'm making more power because I can put more fuel into the engine with an EGT temp that is within the correct range. I am going to be out of town this weekend so I can't test it in the air. I hope that we will get our airspace back before the weekend ends so I can test again before I head to Arkansas and Pine Bluff Kosh. Because of a Board Meeting on Thursday afternoon late, I plan on arriving on Friday afternoon and look forward to a great weekend of flying, conversation, and just simply enjoying the freedoms we enjoy in this great country. By the way, I'll be bringing my guitar and I still HATE SANDING!!! Jim Faughn N891JF 4323D Laclede Ave. St. Louis, MO 63108 (314)652-7659 Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:34:26 -0500 To: "KR Net Response" From: "David & Jo Ann Lininger" Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering Message-ID: <3B9FD4E2.397.37B0233@localhost> >Unfortunately on Tuesday, my airport was VERY closed. I've been wondering whether the total shutdown yesterday included small aircraft or not. I had assumed it did, but shortly before sunset I saw an ultralight buzzing around. Wouldn't he have been included in the ban, too? 73 David, KBOZKE kb0zke@arrl.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:59:43 -0700 (PDT) To: KR-People From: Screwy Squirrel Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering Message-ID: Yes. Ultralights are included in the grounding of general aviation aircraft - all the way down to, and including hang gliders(a sport I've recently taken up). Here is the message that was forwarded to me on the local hang gliding list. It was, in turn, sent out by officials in the United States Hang Gliding Association(USHGA): -------- Original Message -------- From: "Jayne M. Depanfilis" Subject: FAA information I just spoke with the FAA office in New York. It was an interesting experience since calls are being handled on a multiparty line. I entered the call and basically took a number and waited my turn. I asked the FAA respresentative what the FAA's ruling is concerning ultralight flying, specifically, hang gliders and paragliders, and his response was: "The FAA prohibits all noncommercial flying at this time." If you have questions about flying in your area you can contact your local Flight Operations office. If you go to the following link, you will find the list of the FAA's Regional Offices and Centers. The link follows: www.faa.gov/orgs.htm --- Hope this helps. John Quoting David & Jo Ann Lininger : > > >Unfortunately on Tuesday, my airport was VERY > closed. > > I've been wondering whether the total shutdown > yesterday included > small aircraft or not. I had assumed it did, but > shortly before sunset > I saw an ultralight buzzing around. Wouldn't he > have been included > in the ban, too? > > > > 73 > > David, KBOZKE > kb0zke@arrl.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------ --------------- > To post to the list, email: > krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at > http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so > use some other system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:21:53 -0600 To: "KR Net Response" , "David & Jo Ann Lininger" From: "Glenn Anderson" Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering Message-ID: <412001941342153960@earthlink.net> ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I do not believe the FAA considers ultra lights to be aircraft. I do know they do not track or investigate crashes involving ultralights. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Jo Ann Lininger To: KR Net Response Sent: 9/12/2001 8:34:48 PM Subject: Re: KR KR Gathering Unfortunately on Tuesday, my airport was VERY closed. I've been wondering whether the total shutdown yesterday included small aircraft or not. I had assumed it did, but shortly before sunset I saw an ultralight buzzing around. Wouldn't he have been included in the ban, too? 73 David, KBOZKE kb0zke@arrl.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! --- Glenn Anderson --- tim123j@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 00:28:32 EDT To: djlinin@positech.net, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Laheze@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering Message-ID: <6b.1a931bb9.28d18ff0@aol.com> There was an instructor and student flying near Dallas TX today who were forced to land by a military jet according to reports that I heard on local radio stations. They were questioned by authorities, the instructor said he thought the ban lifted at 11:00AM Dallas time. I will have to admit that I never heard that no planes were to fly, I thought it was just the airlines but this guy found out different today. Larry Howell laheze@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:06:36 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Bo124rs@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering Message-ID: <8a.c76333e.28d1fb4c@aol.com> --part1_8a.c76333e.28d1fb4c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 09/13/2001 12:28:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 Laheze@aol.com writes: > I will have to admit that I never heard that no planes were to fly, I=20 > thought=20 > it was just the airlines but this guy found out different today. > >> FDC 1/9760 FDC SPECIAL NOTICE - EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL >> FURTHER NOTICE. FLIGHT OPERATIONS IN THE NATIONAL AIRSPACE >> SYSTEM BY UNITED STATES CIVIL AIRCRAFT AND FOREIGN CIVIL >> AND MILITARY AIRCRAFT ARE PROHIBITED, EXCEPT IN ACCORDANCE >> WITH ADVZY 043 OR AS AMENDED OR REVISED. >>=20 >> !FDC 1/9746 FDC SPECIAL NOTICE - EFFECT IMMEDIATELY. =A0SCATANA HAS >> NOT BEEN IMPLEMENTED, HOWEVER, DOD AIRCREWS ONLY WILL FOLLOW >> SCATANA PROCEDURES FOR FILING FLIGHT PLANS IN ORDER TO GAIN >> DEPARTURE APPROVAL. =A0REPEAT: =A0SCATANA HAS NOT BEEN IMPLEMENTED >>=20 >> for a reference on SCATANA, see: >>=20 >> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/32cfr2= 45_00.html >>=20 At this time, they are talking about only accepting IFR flight plans from=20 previously grounded airlines, as reported on TV. With that said, another ne= t=20 I am on (several airline pilots and ATC personnel) is reporting that the=20 chronology will be, commercial IFR, civil IFR and then civil VFR in that=20 order. They don't want any accomplices to be able to fly out VFR with not=20 radar contact. This may certainly change but as of right now, this=20 supposedly is the plan. Dana Overall --part1_8a.c76333e.28d1fb4c_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:32:01 -0400 To: Bo124rs@aol.com From: "Philip J. Visconti" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering Message-ID: <20010913.093202.-337529.0.viscan@juno.com> There are VFR civil aircraft flying. Last night one flew into 6B6 next to Hanscom Field in MA. The aircraft was communicating with ATC on 124.4. Also the night before there was air traffic going into Hanscom Field. How did that happen if ALL planes were supposed to be grounded ??? The local airport has a large yellow truck parked across the only runway. Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:38:07 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Philip J. Visconti" Subject: FAA Control Message-ID: <20010912.223808.-451283.2.viscan@juno.com> Anyone know what job Jane Garvey had before she took control of the FAA ? Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:43:02 -0700 (PDT) To: "Philip J. Visconti" , krnet@mailinglists.org From: CS Subject: Re: KR> FAA Control Message-ID: <20010913024302.67460.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> > Anyone know what job Jane Garvey had > before she took control of the FAA ? I think she played first base for the Dodgers. No, wait...that was Steve Garvey. Sorry. Chuck __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:50:07 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR> FAA Control Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010912205007.007a8110@pcisys.net> At 10:38 PM 9/12/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Anyone know what job Jane Garvey had > before she took control of the FAA ? > Can anyone suggest a job considering that her FAA allowed this to happen? Ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:55:29 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: HAshraf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> FAA Control Message-ID: <70.fe3bfdc.28d18831@aol.com> google search snippet <> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 00:29:45 EDT To: viscan@juno.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Laheze@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> FAA Control Message-ID: Baseball I think? Larry Howell laheze@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:45:58 -0700 To: From: "Ron Eason" Subject: VIRUS Message-ID: <000d01c13c0e$ff66f230$c8621e41@Administration> I just recieved this. Ron DO NOT OPEN "NEW PICTURES OF FAMILY" It is a virus that will erase your whole "C" drive. It will come to you in the form of an E-Mail from a familiar person. Forward this to everyone in your address book. I would rather receive this 25 times than not at all. Also: Intel announced that a new and very destructive virus was discovered recently. If you receive an email called "FAMILY PICTURES," do not open it. Delete it right away! This virus removes all dynamic link libraries (.dll files) from your computer. Your computer will not be able to boot up. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:14:57 -0700 (PDT) To: KR-People From: Screwy Squirrel Subject: Virus hoaxes Message-ID: I just clicked over to the CIAC web page, took about 30 seconds to look around, then copied and pasted this: --- Family Pictures Hoax March 2001 This must have been put out by someone who is tired of looking at other people's picture albums. Subject: Virus to look out for DO NOT OPEN "NEW PICTURES OF FAMILY" It is a virus that will erase your whole "C" drive. It will come to you in the form of an E-mail from a familiar person. I repeat a friend sent it to me, but called & warned me before I opened it. He was not so lucky and now he can't even start his computer! Forward this to everyone in your address book. I would rather receive this 25 times than not at all. Also: Intel announced that a new and very destructive virus was discovered recently. If you receive an e-mail called "FAMILY PICTURES," do not open it. Delete it right away! This virus removes all dynamic link from your computer. Your computer will not be able to boot up. --- That's right. It's a hoax. Please, people, please please please please, when you get an email warning about a new disasterous virus out there, please check into it first. My favorite web site for checking this sort of thing is: http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/ They also have some nice resources with tips on how to detect whether or not a warning is a hoax(phrases like "it will delete your whole C drive" is a pretty good indicator). Before forwarding this garbage onto everyone on your mailing lists, please take the five minutes necessary to check it out to make sure it's legitimate... Thanks. +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ |John E. Holeman | OSU Computer Science| |754-3450 | OSU Atmospheric Science| +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ |holemanj@ucs.orst.edu |holemanj@cs.orst.edu | |www.orst.edu/~holemanj |jholeman@oce.orst.edu | +----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice; if you choose not | | to decide, you still have made a choice; you can choose from phantom | | fears and kindness that can kill; I will choose a path that's clear | | I will choose free will | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:23:29 -0700 To: "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Cat fish Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C13BE1.EE8BBC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Count me in on the catfosh diner. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C13BE1.EE8BBC20-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:50:07 EDT To: klw1953@juno.com From: GARYKR2@cs.com CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> WAF stress analysis Message-ID: <5b.1b9c034d.28d186ef@cs.com> In a message dated 9/10/01 9:31:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, klw1953@juno.com writes: << Gary, I found that when stalling my S as I was taught in 72's that I get an incredible nose high attitude while in the flare, there fore I found that flying it down on the runway at 60 works best for me. I have no flaps.--------------Kenny >> I don't have flaps either. And I have the retracts. Nose high is how it has to be done. Any time you fly a tail dragger, forward sight will be limited. You should have been taught to look out the side window as you go into the flair. Go fly a J-3, or a C195 and you will find you can't see anything in front of you. I come over the fence at 60mph, and land at a full stall. Your not. You should learn to slow down, or when you need to get into some place small, you may not make it. Gary Hinkle Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:09:08 -0400 To: , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Cc: Subject: RE: KR> WAF stress analysis Message-ID: Clearly, this is not a WAF Stress Analysis issue. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: GARYKR2@cs.com [mailto:GARYKR2@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 11:50 PM To: klw1953@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> WAF stress analysis In a message dated 9/10/01 9:31:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, klw1953@juno.com writes: << Gary, I found that when stalling my S as I was taught in 72's that I get an incredible nose high attitude while in the flare, there fore I found that flying it down on the runway at 60 works best for me. I have no flaps.--------------Kenny >> I don't have flaps either. And I have the retracts. Nose high is how it has to be done. Any time you fly a tail dragger, forward sight will be limited. You should have been taught to look out the side window as you go into the flair. Go fly a J-3, or a C195 and you will find you can't see anything in front of you. I come over the fence at 60mph, and land at a full stall. Your not. You should learn to slow down, or when you need to get into some place small, you may not make it. Gary Hinkle Middletown, Pa. garykr2@cs.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:33:14 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: e-mail subject line Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010913083314.00794bc0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Netters, Please PAY ATTENTION and change subject line on your e-mail replys. Some of us may want to save certian e-mails with info in them and we will have no way to know how to go back and find the ones we want when the subject says " KR Gathering" and the e-mail is about wheel landings! Come on guys, if you can build an airplane , you can handle this !!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:37:45 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: GoFlySlow2@aol.com Subject: Let's all help a little. Message-ID: <8b.c302bea.28d22cc9@aol.com> --part1_8b.c302bea.28d22cc9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take a little of the Fed tax rebate you got and give some back for assistanc= e=20 in this great tragedy. =A0 How to Help:=20 This collection of resources includes a special message from the Red Cross=20 on how you can help them, connects you to other disaster relief=20 organizations, provides important local resources in the areas affected, and= =20 more.=20 Donate online immediately to these organizations: American Red Cross The September 11th Fund<= /A> coordinated by the Council on Foundations and United=20 Way. The International Associ= ation of Fire Fighters. --part1_8b.c302bea.28d22cc9_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:39:15 -0500 To: From: larry flesner Subject: C.G./landings/"long" Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010913133915.00862780@pop3.norton.antivirus> Since your center of gravity is behind the >wing on touch down, the tail continues downward after the main wheels touch. >Darryl DuRossette ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++ Darryl , I would like to correct a statement you made concerning the C.G location on touch down. This is not a challenge to your or anyone else's landing technique. Each pilot uses the technique they are most comfortable with considering the aircraft they are flying and the conditions at the time of takeoff and landing. I am not an engineer, only a graduate of high school physics and geometry some 38 years ago. If my understanding is wrong, feel free to correct me. The C.G. location of an aircraft does not change during landing and if it actually was behind the wing the aircraft would not be flyable. It can change during flight with a shifting of weight or an addition or reduction in weigh such as fuel burn off, in flight refueling (not one of our problems) , 4 or 5 jumpers leaving a jump plane in flight, etc. On the ground there are generally very few things that change the C.G. location. With all that said, here is my understanding of what is happening. In the air the weight of an aircraft is supported at the center of lift and on the ground it is supported by the landing gear. It is the RELATIONSHIP of the C.G. to the center of lift during flight, the RELATIONSHIP of the C.G. to the landing gear on the ground, and the changes of these RELATIONSHIPS that a pilot is dealing with. THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIPS on the aircraft and as we takeoff and land we are transitioning from one relationship to the other. In the air, minor C.G. changes are simply handled with trim. On the ground this C.G. and main gear contact point relationship changes and depends on the attitude of the fuselage. The C.G. will actually move fore and aft as it rotates about the contact point of the landing gear on the ground. Try lifting the tail of a taildragger on the ground and feel the tail getting lighter as the C.G. moves forward as it rotates about the contact point. ( Actually , with most gear design you are moving the gear contact point aft and making the moment arm shorter to the C.G.) That is also why getting the tail down, moving the C.G further back from the gear contact point , allows you to brake harder without nosing over. Generally speaking, on a taildragger, the C.G. and center of lift (C of L) are always behind the main gear contact point and on a nose wheel a.c., the C.G. and C of L are always ahead of the main gear contact point. When you touch down with a taildragger and the weight shifts from the wing to the gear, you are moving the support point forward and this is what causes the tail to drop (just the opposite takes place on a nose wheel a.c.). As the tail drops, the pitch angle of the wing increases giving you more lift, and with enough speed (to generate enough lift) you may be once again airborne. With forward stick/wheel, you are compensating for the aft moving C.G. as the weight shifts from the wing to the gear. For this discussion we will disregard the effect of a high decent rate and the rebound effect of the gear. On a nose wheel a.c., the support point shifts to the rear and causes the nose to come down, removing some lift and causing the weight to transfer more quickly to the gear. The C.G. behind the main gear support point on a taildragger is also what makes it want to swap ends on the ground. The C.G ahead of the main gear support point on a nose wheel a.c. causes it to straighten out on the ground. Every aircraft design and many KR's are each different in regards to these three variables and that is why they all take off, fly , and land differently. Several good examples and then I'll stop my rambling. The Cessna 140, when it came out, had the main gear mounted too far aft. It flew great but with the weight supported by the main gear, when the tail came up, the C.G. moved forward enough that they tended to "plunk" on their nose. They corrected this later by adding a chunk of metal that moved the wheels forward several inches ahead of the gear legs. This shifting of the C.G. with attitude changes of the fuselage is also the reason you have to have the aircraft in a level attitude when you weigh it to get an accurate C.G. location. The moment arm of the H.S. and elevator will have an effect on the amount of control a pilot will have during the transition from flight to ground handling. I fly two different C-182's at the drop zone and they each have a different pitch trim system. The C-182 is generally a rather nose heavy airplane. The older model has the better of the two types of trim control and allows me to "kiss" on the mains and hold the nose off with little control wheel movement. The newer one has less effective trim/ pitch control and I have to keep the speed up a bit to keep from banging the nose gear on landings. My Tripacer is rather nose heavy on the gear and ,with it's short moment arm of the tail, when the mains touch the nose comes down IMMEDIATELY unless I bring back the yoke very quickly and then it's easy to overcontrol and send you back in the air. It's also harder to get the nose wheel off the ground on rough/soft field takeoffs than it is in a Cessna. ( Could that be why they chose to stick a 6 inch nose wheel on a Tripacer and only have a 5 inch nose wheel on a Cessna ?? Hummmmm ) Finally, there are some odd balls. The Challenger II (with a nose wheel) has the C.G. behind the main gear contact point and on the ground, without pilot or passanger, the tail sets on the ground. When the pilot or passanger board, it plopps back on the nose wheel. I hope this hasn't been too long or boring but I think a pilot has to understand the physics of the aircraft he is flying in order to control it properly and fly it safely. It also seems a good change of pace from the posts of the last few days and is what the KRnet is all about. Larry Flesner Skydiver hauler, Tripe driver, KR builder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:51:25 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: CS Subject: Uh-oh...the Gathering Message-ID: <20010913185125.9149.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Netters... This from AVweb: "...one FAA staffer effectively told AVweb that GA is not on the FAA's radar screens at this time. When commercial operations are resumed, the FAA said, there is every reason to believe that GA operations will also resume. However, nothing is certain until that occurs." Do we meet if GA ban is still in effect? Chuck __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:51:53 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: flight restrictions Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010913155153.008b6cb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> > >Do we meet if GA ban is still in effect? > >Chuck +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I doubt if that is going to be a concern by then. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:43:02 -0400 To: , "larry flesner" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> flight restrictions Message-ID: <001901c13cb6$3685b010$6c2d5d0c@scana.com> While I was out in the shop tonight, putting on the last layer of glass to close up the hole created by converting to the Deihl gear, I heard the most beautiful sound,,,, an airplane heading for CAE. We live under the flight path. I didn't realize how much I missed that sound. Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG Gathering Bound ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: KR> flight restrictions > > > >Do we meet if GA ban is still in effect? > > > >Chuck > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > I doubt if that is going to be a concern by then. > > Larry Flesner > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:07:31 -0500 To: From: "James J. Zuehls" Subject: Love of Flying Message-ID: <001401c13c87$577f5a20$8413b2d0@frontiernet.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C13C5D.6DD6BFE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been building on my KR2 since 1982. I don't do more than an = occasional dusting these days but I still Love Flying and have hopes = that I may live long enough to work on it again.=20 Now I don't care who "don't get it" with what happened on Tuesday = morning. But I do know that Hate is what brought it about and to meet = hate with hate does not add up to love, it just add to those who are = victims of a bad day in history. Our task is not to set blame, for too = often that is just a way to try to hide our frustration that there are = some things in life that happen that we can do nothing about and make us = feel so helpless. Cry for those who are lost but please don't give more = fuel for blame and hate This is a forum for the love and fellowship that we share because of = a sweet little plane called the KR2. I enjoy the tips - on plane = building - that I find here on the KRNET. Fly high. Jim=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C13C5D.6DD6BFE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:02:48 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR> Love of Flying Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010913150248.007adbb0@pcisys.net> I have kept out of these discussions since they serve no purpose for me. However, if your point is that we should love the bastards who did this and who only seek our extermination....you are wrong. The best solution is to realize that "love" does not apply to those who seek to destroy you. Mankind has always done things like this and probably always will. So it is in our best interests to realize this is a war and kill every single terrorist we can. Want to consider that hate? Go ahead. I prefer that we have people in charge who will resort to killing those who seek our destruction. The sooner we start...the better. Ron Lee > Now I don't care who "don't get it" with what happened on Tuesday morning. But I do know that Hate is what brought it about and to meet hate with hate does not add up to love, it just add to those who are victims of a bad day in history. Our task is not to set blame, for too often that is just a way to try to hide our frustration that there are some things in life that happen that we can do nothing about and make us feel so helpless. Cry for those who are lost but please don't give more fuel for blame and hate > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:35:53 -0700 To: From: "Randy Stein" Subject: Be careful kids...Mom is still grumpy Message-ID: <003901c13c9c$10ff0e00$31b01818@we.mediaone.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C13C61.642316C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kids: I sense a thread developing that could go down a road that we need not = travel. I don't believe in infighting (or in-breeding). Remember = sandbox rules apply. Rules 1 Constructive, positive comments only - KRNet has been declared a bash = free zone 2 Aviation related would be helpful 3 If you kids want to kick sand into each others eyes, go to = rec-aviation site to do it. (If you kick to much sand, I'll have to go = to Home Depot to buy more, and YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I HATE GOING THERE!)=20 4 Remember, you all have had advanced human relations training in = Kindergarten. Please refer back to that training. I for one found = Kindergarten the three hardest years of my life... Mom (the Wicked Witch on the West Coast) ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C13C61.642316C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:58:06 -0500 To: "Randy Stein" , From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Be careful kids...Mom is still grumpy Message-ID: <001801c13cc0$b378a460$ebd8fea9@pavilion> Randy: I realize that the KRNet is for the purpose of the exchange of ideas and new builders receiving help from the more experienced people but I just have to break the rules this one time and speak my piece: I am so tired of hearing government officials say we will catch these people and bring them to trial and punish them. To hell with that, we have been attacked by a foreign power, I don't care if it's terrorists, another nation or who they have no right what-so-ever to the protection of the constitution or due process. We need to find these people and destroy them, all of them. If it be a nation, unrestricted war to victory then hang any and all who had anything to do with the events in New York city. Now that I have gotten that off my chest I hope you will not be too hard on me but what ever comes I will not complain. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rlspjs@dashlink.com Just one very pissed off American ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Stein" To: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 4:35 PM Subject: KR> Be careful kids...Mom is still grumpy Kids: I sense a thread developing that could go down a road that we need not travel. I don't believe in infighting (or in-breeding). Remember sandbox rules apply. Rules 1 Constructive, positive comments only - KRNet has been declared a bash free zone 2 Aviation related would be helpful 3 If you kids want to kick sand into each others eyes, go to rec-aviation site to do it. (If you kick to much sand, I'll have to go to Home Depot to buy more, and YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I HATE GOING THERE!) 4 Remember, you all have had advanced human relations training in Kindergarten. Please refer back to that training. I for one found Kindergarten the three hardest years of my life... Mom (the Wicked Witch on the West Coast) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:43:38 -0700 To: kr From: POND CARTER Subject: constant speed props Message-ID: <3BA16EDA.675C1CFA@home.com> Hi Netters Can anyone suggest an affordable constant speed prop. I have read about Ivor prop but the 2k is a little rich for my blood. There is one out of Australia that is said to be good but I have yet to find more information. Would some one that flies a large amount of IFR please email me. I would like to discuss ideal instrument packages. Thought i would ask these questions again as there appears to be lots of opinions available right now. one: In my quest for the ideal a/c I'm looking for information on seats. For safety does the seat need to compress to absorb Kinetic energy of a crash or hard landing or will a solid bucket shape surface (composite) be safe enough? Two: I have had an engineer redesign the wing spars to handle 1400# gross and now I am looking at the tail spars. Has any one considered switching to alum spars both horiz and vertical stab? Strength and weight make it ideal but the bonding of the surface is a mystery to me so far. More reading may provide the answer but I thought I would ask the experts. Carter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:39:50 -0400 To: "POND CARTER" , "kr" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> constant speed props Message-ID: <000801c13cb5$c3e7a590$6c2d5d0c@scana.com> Pond, I have to be straight with you, at least from my experience and time associated with Home Built aircraft. The plane you are looking for is not a KR. You should be looking at models like the Lancair. The KR is a wonderful airplane because it is relatively easy to build and inexpensive by comparison. You would do yourself well to look at aircraft that have more of the features you are looking for, designed in. However, that said, Lance Neibauer started building a KR and decided to design the Lancer, which became the Lancair. Good Luck, Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG Gathering Bound ----- Original Message ----- From: "POND CARTER" To: "kr" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 10:43 PM Subject: KR> constant speed props > > Hi Netters > > Can anyone suggest an affordable constant speed prop. I have read about > Ivor prop but the 2k is a little rich for my blood. There is one out of > Australia that is said to be good but I have yet to find more > information. > > Would some one that flies a large amount of IFR please email me. I would > like to discuss ideal instrument packages. > > Thought i would ask these questions again as there appears to be lots of > opinions available right now. > > > one: > In my quest for the ideal a/c I'm looking for information on seats. For > safety does the seat need to compress to absorb Kinetic energy of a > crash or hard landing or will a solid bucket shape surface (composite) > be > safe enough? > > Two: > > I have had an engineer redesign the wing spars to handle 1400# gross and > now I am looking at the tail spars. Has any one considered switching to > alum spars both horiz and vertical stab? Strength and weight make it > ideal but the bonding of the surface is a mystery to me so far. More > reading may provide the answer but I thought I would ask the experts. > > Carter > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:43:01 +0000 To: KRNet From: Stuart Deal Subject: Is this the right plane? (KR-2S) Message-ID: <3B9F7475.ADB8AD5B@sonic.net> Hello, I have been waffling awfully about which plane to build. If you can afford a kit, most folks I know get an RV. However, I am almost 6'4" so most of the kits don't fit me. The simplest plane is probably a VP-1 but my helpers want to be able to fly in what I build. Someone said once that you can't make a Volksplane fast or pretty. I started designing a two seater with the VP-1 as a core and before I knew my design started to look like a KR-2S. A VW powered plane that is fast and pretty seems like a dream. So here is the obvious question, how fast. If I use a 2180 VW in a KR-2S trigear, how fast will it fly, how fast will it climb (at full gross) and how fast can I build it (I am pretty comfortable with wood and fiberglass). Any thoughts? Thanks, Stuart Deal ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************