From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 22 Nov 2001 19:25:33 -0000 Issue 326 Date: Thursday, November 22, 2001 11:26 AM krnet Digest 22 Nov 2001 19:25:33 -0000 Issue 326 Topics (messages 7657 through 7683): Re: prop bolt torque 7657 by: Ross Youngblood 7659 by: Stuart Deal 7660 by: Barry Barkman 7661 by: larry flesner Fabric airplane cover for tie-down parking 7658 by: Ron Eason KR2 7662 by: dbhamm KRNet web site 7663 by: Mark Langford Re: Full day at the airport. 7664 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER Re: Engine Start...Nope/Fuel Stabilizer? 7665 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER Re: Engine Start...Nope 7666 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER More Engine Runup festivities. 7667 by: Ross Youngblood 7678 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER Fuel Stabilizer? 7668 by: Ross Youngblood Todays Engine Activity. 7669 by: Ross Youngblood 7675 by: virgnvs.juno.com Spinner Front bulkhead 7670 by: Ross Youngblood 7674 by: virgnvs.juno.com 7677 by: Philip J. Visconti 7680 by: Ross Youngblood 7681 by: Ross Youngblood 7682 by: Ross Youngblood Re: wheel pants 7671 by: Mark Langford 7672 by: Tom Crawford catching up 7673 by: Tom Crawford 7683 by: Ross Youngblood batteries 7676 by: Mark Langford rudder pedals 7679 by: Tim Brown Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:13:18 -0700 To: Stuart Deal From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> prop bolt torque Message-Id: <20011121020718.EQJS23447.femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> Stuart, I use self locking castleated nuts on my propeller bolts, torque them down then insert and bend a cotter pin. Some prop bolts have drilled heads, but I assume that this is for bolts that go into a threaded prop hub. I thought about purchasing drilled head prop bolts and safteying the heads as well, but it didn't seem to make sense, at least in my case where I have used cotter pins on the nuts. I'm sure I've read someplace that prop bolts need to be safetied. Of course there is a rule of thumb that all bolts that may rotate should be safetied, but think that propeller bolts are a VERY special case. I also think I read someplace that you should check the torque on wooden prop bolts after initial installation. And you don't want to overtighten the prop bolts on a wooden prop. I was expecting my prop to need some minor tightening and am not suprised to see a loose bolt given the significant difference in moisture between Phoenx, AZ and Corvallis, OR. -- Ross 11/20/2001 9:47:34 AM, Stuart Deal wrote: >Hi Ross, > >This post makes me curious. > >I thought I had seen a locking wire through prop bolts. > >Is that a special deal? > >Thanks, >Stuart > >Ross Youngblood wrote: >> >> Thanks Oscar! >> I'm thinking 12 foot pounds but I don't recall where that number came from. >> And of course... I have a crush plate from Great Plains. >> One interesting note... I torqued the bolts back up in Oregon... down >> here in AZ I think the lack of moisture made the prop shrink a bit. I found >> one bolt actually loose... although I was planning on re-torqung the bolts >> eventually anyway, I'm glad I pulled the prop. >> >> -- Ross >> >> 11/20/2001 10:05:20 PM, "Oscar Zuniga" wrote: >> >> >(I just switched from the digest to the regular KRNet posting, so if this is >> >a duplicate, please excuse me)- Unless your wood prop manufacturer >> >recommends otherwise, the numbers I've seen call for around 10 ft.-lbs. >> >torque on the prop bolts, and always use a crush plate between the prop and >> >the bolt heads. >> > >> >Oscar Zuniga >> >Medford, Oregon >> >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >> >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:05:04 +0000 To: rossy65@home.com From: Stuart Deal CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> prop bolt torque Message-ID: <3BFAD390.50196F8E@sonic.net> Thanks Ross, It appears from your experience, that this is at least an annual item. I wonder if the finish on a wood prop helps with dimensional stability. Stuart Ross Youngblood wrote: > > Stuart, > I use self locking castleated nuts on my propeller bolts, torque them down then insert and > bend a cotter pin. Some prop bolts have drilled heads, but I assume that this is for > bolts that go into a threaded prop hub. I thought about purchasing drilled head prop > bolts and safteying the heads as well, but it didn't seem to make sense, at least in > my case where I have used cotter pins on the nuts. > I'm sure I've read someplace that prop bolts need to be safetied. Of course > there is a rule of thumb that all bolts that may rotate should be safetied, but > think that propeller bolts are a VERY special case. > I also think I read someplace that you should check the torque on wooden > prop bolts after initial installation. And you don't want to overtighten the prop > bolts on a wooden prop. > I was expecting my prop to need some minor tightening and am not suprised > to see a loose bolt given the significant difference in moisture between Phoenx, AZ > and Corvallis, OR. > -- Ross > > > > 11/20/2001 9:47:34 AM, Stuart Deal wrote: > > >Hi Ross, > > > >This post makes me curious. > > > >I thought I had seen a locking wire through prop bolts. > > > >Is that a special deal? > > > >Thanks, > >Stuart > > > >Ross Youngblood wrote: > >> > >> Thanks Oscar! > >> I'm thinking 12 foot pounds but I don't recall where that number came from. > >> And of course... I have a crush plate from Great Plains. > >> One interesting note... I torqued the bolts back up in Oregon... down > >> here in AZ I think the lack of moisture made the prop shrink a bit. I found > >> one bolt actually loose... although I was planning on re-torqung the bolts > >> eventually anyway, I'm glad I pulled the prop. > >> > >> -- Ross > >> > >> 11/20/2001 10:05:20 PM, "Oscar Zuniga" wrote: > >> > >> >(I just switched from the digest to the regular KRNet posting, so if this is > >> >a duplicate, please excuse me)- Unless your wood prop manufacturer > >> >recommends otherwise, the numbers I've seen call for around 10 ft.-lbs. > >> >torque on the prop bolts, and always use a crush plate between the prop and > >> >the bolt heads. > >> > > >> >Oscar Zuniga > >> >Medford, Oregon > >> >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > >> >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > Ross Youngblood > rossy65@home.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:11:03 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Barry Barkman Subject: RE: KR> prop bolt torque Message-ID: <521647D22AAED51184BD0003476BBDE60A059B@smtp.saxon.net> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1729E.BC353F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://www.greatplainsas.com/edinstall.html has instructions on installing wooden props --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1729E.BC353F50-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:50:12 -0600 To: Barry Barkman , krnet@mailinglists.org From: larry flesner Subject: RE: KR> prop bolt torque Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20011121145012.00866550@pop3.norton.antivirus> >http://www.greatplainsas.com/edinstall.html has instructions on installing >wooden props >--------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry and Netters, This is a direct link to the Ed Sterba propeller site. If you scroll down to the bottom and click on the other squares it can take you to Ed's site for more info, i.e. maintenance, pricing, etc. . Go to the "propeller rules" and see his last rule. :) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:21:52 -0800 From: "Ron Eason" Cc: Subject: Fabric airplane cover for tie-down parking Message-ID: <001501c17254$d33c2c80$71db1f41@Administration> Hay guys, I came across a unique manufacture of a cover for protecting vehicles [airplanes] outside in year around weather. It's a 95% UV shade and strong enough for hail storms and wind/thunder storms. New car dealers are using them over the parking/sales lots. For example I was quoted a 40"x20"x10' high cover complete with steel framing for $2480.00, I know, it's not the right size but that computes to $3.10/sq.ft.. I don't know if FBO's will go for it but it's worth a try. A KR would not need a large cover. See them at http://www.shade-n-net.com . KRRon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:37:02 -0800 To: From: "dbhamm" Subject: KR2 Message-ID: <000001c172d7$900b9da0$0efe1a3f@003774259> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C17291.99DE6D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable KR11 TRY GEAR FOR SALE! 40 PERCENT COMPLETED All wood work, stub wings and tail feathers completed. Kit includes front and rear deck canope and two bubbles clear with Deil = wings, 90 percent completed. All cables and controls, flap handle plus a 16ft enclosed trailer with a new Revmaster 2100D factory rebuilt complete with oil cooler, oil filter, new mag and wire harness. $5,000 or will sell each part seperate DON HAMM 909 652-5429 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C17291.99DE6D80-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:12:08 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KRNet web site Message-ID: <001a01c172fb$16dc2b10$7600a8c0@athlon600> KRNetHeads, I'm sending this today, since I'll be gone tomorrow and Friday. After my KRNet.org "coupe", several people emailed me and told me I should just point the thing to my "KR2S Construction" page and get back to building my airplane. I asked 6 people what they thought about that idea(including Ross) and they all agreed that it was quite appropriate. So with that in mind, I'll unveil the new version, at http://www.krnet.org/ . If you get the old version rather than the new one, hit "refresh", "update", or go into Tools and check the box that says "update everytime I visit", because it's being cached somewhere. I deleted it from my website, and replaced it with the page that specifically details N56ML. Another recommendation was that I start a "KR of the month picture". I don't have enough air-to-air shots of KRs for that, but I'll try to change it more often. Most of the links work now, but I've lost track of the KRNet FAQ. Steve Eberhart's link doesn't work, and I forget, did we copy it to somewhere else that I could provide a link to? I also have emails out for the other link(s) that don't work, and will either update them or kill them later. Also, if I don't have a link to your KR website, please let me know and I'll remedy that. I'm not blacklisting anybody, but occasionally they do slip by me. Any other reasonable recommendations or links will be incorporated as well. Walt Lounsberry has cooked up an improved version of the "Yearbook" that looks really nice, and will allow the photo to be clicked on for a full-size version. That'll come eventually and I may be looking for a volunteer to maintain the thing, as well as more images for the yearbook itself. Both cowling molds are made now, and the next step is a carbon fiber cowling... That is all... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:29:12 -0500 To: "KRNET" , "Daniel Heath" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> Full day at the airport. Message-ID: I'm really curious about the Ellison carb and no pump issue. Tom Crawford reported that his did OK, but one Facet pump I tested had a very high "cracking" pressure. I assume these favorable reports come from using header tank pressure ( gravity); I wonder how they'll perform as the tank gets LOW, which is maybe important to know. This might be even more important to know if the pump failed, you didn't know it until the header got low and the engine then QUIT. There's maybe a bad sequence here? BTW, as far as I know, facet pumps never stop pulsing; it's not a pressure/demand design. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Heath [mailto:DanRH@att.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 5:53 PM To: rossy65@home.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Full day at the airport. Just a FYI here. I had an Ellison on a 1915VW with a Facet fuel pump. I ran the pump all the time, but did tests to see if it would run in the event that the pump lost power and it did. It would run at almost full throttle with the pump switched off. Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross R. Youngblood" Cc: Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: Re: KR> Full day at the airport. > Robert, > Looks like I wasn't too clear... it's been a while since I've posted > my fuel setup on the 'net... so I will fill some details in here. > You are correct, the fuel TANKS are not pressurized, but the fuel > from tanks is under pressure at the gascolator when fed by a electric > fuel pump. The hitch in my setup is that only the left and right wing tanks > have fuel pumps.. I have two seperate fuel pumps for L and R > fuel tanks, but when I switch to the header tank, it is gravity feed. > So, in theory, when I run the Ellison from one of the wing tanks, the > fuel will be delivered under a higher pressure than what I'm getting > from gravity feed. > The Ellison throttle body injector does not have the traditional > float bowl assembly. I don't have the exact quote, but the Ellison manual > states that the fuel must be under pressure (approx 4psi min if I recall > correctly) > for the Ellison to feed fuel correctly. Prior discussions on the 'net have > indicated > that a couple of KR's are flying OK using gravity feed for the Ellison. So > technically trying to operate as I was today is outside manufacturers > specifications. > And finally, my setup uses a three way fuel valve, I do not feed fuel from > the wing tanks to the header tank and feed from the header. My design > gives me two redundant fuel pumps from each wing tank to the gascolator, > and a reserve 5 gal header which is gravity feed. I believe that I have > successfully run the engine off the header, but that was a couple of years ago, > > so now I'm considering that I may have been feeding fuel from one of the > wing tanks at the time. > > Robert Stone wrote: > > > Ross: Since all fuel tanks must be vented they cannot be pressurized. You > > need three pumps (electric) one from each wing tank to the header and the > > third from the header tank to the carb. If the needle valve and float in > > the carb are working right the engine should get all the fuel it needs to > > keep on running and there should be no leaks. > > > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > > rlspjs@dashlink.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ross R. Youngblood" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 5:18 PM > > Subject: KR> Full day at the airport. > > > > > Well, I spent about the last 8 hours working with the KR. > > > It turns over and catches, but will not stay running long. > > > I found that the Comp-u-Fire roter was mounted off, and > > > re-installed that, and it got a bit better. > > > I played with the Ellison idle mixture screw and loosened it > > > about 3 turns in 1/2 turn increments, and each time it seemed > > > to get a bit better, then the battery decided to give up. (Motorcycle > > > battery). > > > My wing tanks have independant fuel pumps, but I haven't hooked > > > these up at the moment. I'm using the gravity feed header tank, so my > > > current working theory is that gravity feed just doesn't supply enough > > > pressure to keep the Ellison happy. Although I seemed to get closer > > > and closer to a constant running engine with every 1/2 turn, it never > > > ran for long after the starter was turned off. > > > My goal for tomorrow is to get one of the wing tanks hooked up and > > > try pressurized fuel from the fuel pump to see what happens. > > > Previously, I was able to run from the header tank for long enough > > > to time the engine and break it in without the prop up in Oregon. It's > > > been a couple of years, and the prop is on, but hopefully the timing > > > hasn't been altered accidentally. > > > I've got a couple of theories... any suggestions as to which might > > > be the best choice. > > > > > > 1) No/low fuel flow. > > > - Gravity feed may not be enough for sustainable Ellison > > > operation > > > although "I thought" that I had run from the header tank > > > before. > > > I may have been mistaken. > > > 2) Timing altered. > > > I'm tempted to alter the distributor timing, but would rather > > > not disturb > > > it as doing so leads to prop removal for re-timing, and > > > re-torquing. This > > > probably needs to happen anyway, I just don't want to do it right > > > now. > > > 3) Not enough current. > > > Perhaps there is not enough current from the battery to supply > > > the starter > > > AND the Compu-Fire ignition system. Although it does seem to run > > > OK > > > initially. > > > 4) Ignition switch issue. > > > Perhaps there is an open in the ignition switch, which kills > > > power to the electronic > > > ignition when I move back from Start to ON. > > > > > > The Ellison was "factory set" for operation, but opening up the fuel > > > mixture seemed to > > > help for a while. I used a combination of primer (#1,#3 cyl), and > > > starting fluid sprayed > > > into the carb air intake. At one point, the primer seemed to be working > > > OK, I just couldn't > > > sustain idle. The Ellison says to adjust the idle spring screw, when > > > the engine quits after the > > > primer fuel is burned off so I'm suspecting that fuel head pressure has > > > an impact on the idle > > > mixture with this diaphram carb system. > > > > > > Any thoughts would be Appriciated! > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Ross > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:29:22 -0500 To: "Frank Ross" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> Engine Start...Nope/Fuel Stabilizer? Message-ID: I switch between Florida and Indiana. One summer, I left without disconnectong the fuel hose from my outboard. At summers end, the carbs were filled wirh the brown gunk mentioned in an earlier post. Drain your system when away for any long period of time ( a week ?). My new Honda 50 Hp motoor has a bad reputation for "fuel gunking". Aviation gasoline don't do that! Farm tractor gas does it even worse. I was privliged to buy a very nice Jodel D-11 which had crashed due to gunk in the carburetor. Take a test tube and ( very carefully ) boil away the gasoline, see what's left behind; ugly shit. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Frank Ross [mailto:kae_ar@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:54 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Engine Start...Nope/Fuel Stabilizer? I had similar problems with a motorcycle that sat for long periods without running. It helped a lot to put "Fuel Stabilizer" in the fuel. Don't know about using that for aircraft fuels or engines in aircraft. Anybody have comments on that? --- macwood wrote: > Hi Ross, I'm having the same problem as you after sitting ... 2 years I'm > having the same symptoms > Regards Mac-W ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:29:27 -0500 To: "Mark Langford" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> Engine Start...Nope Message-ID: The Ellison Carb is "floatless" but has a very nice fuel regulator. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 2:17 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Engine Start...Nope RossY wrote: > The R Fuel pump is delivering fuel with no problem, however I > suspect a slight air leak in the suction side of the line someplace > as the pump never quite stops clicking. Ross, it is normal with Facet fuel pumps to tick at about two ticks per second even if the engine is stopped. They tick faster when pumping up an empty float bowl, etc. As for running the same floatless carb on the same engine with gravity feed from the header, or under pump pressure from the wing tanks, I'd be skeptical. It seems like once it was set up for low pressure gravity feed running from the header and then you gave it 8x the pressure from the pump, it can't help but run richer. I'd think Ellision would know for sure though. Maybe I didn't fully understand how you had it set up though... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:18:32 -0700 To: ron.martha@mindspring.com, KRNET , Daniel Heath From: Ross Youngblood Subject: More Engine Runup festivities. Message-Id: <20011122041234.BXZB1435.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> Ron, Thanks for the post... I guess I would like to know what you mean by a high "cracking" presssure. The amount of vacuum required to keep the pump open? Or the pressure provided when the pump is on? I ran some more today from the header tank and the wing tank, with not too much appriciable difference. Keep in mind however, that I was more concerned with leaning out the mixture and doing the timing validation today. As far as the pulsing... I was just recallling what I noticed about the Facet pump in my MGB 20 years ago. It would click then stop when pressure was reached... or at least I didn't hear it any longer, so thats where I got the assumption that the pump would eventually stop clicking. There certainly doesn't seem to be any pressure shutdown mechinism in the pump that I could see. -- Regards Ross 11/21/2001 8:29:12 PM, "RONALD.FREIBERGER" wrote: >I'm really curious about the Ellison carb and no pump issue. Tom Crawford >reported that his did OK, but one Facet pump I tested had a very high >"cracking" pressure. I assume these favorable reports come from using >header tank pressure ( gravity); I wonder how they'll perform as the tank >gets LOW, which is maybe important to know. > >This might be even more important to know if the pump failed, you didn't >know it until the header got low and the engine then QUIT. There's maybe a >bad sequence here? > >BTW, as far as I know, facet pumps never stop pulsing; it's not a >pressure/demand design. > >Ron Freiberger... >mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Daniel Heath [mailto:DanRH@att.net] >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 5:53 PM >To: rossy65@home.com >Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> Full day at the airport. > > >Just a FYI here. I had an Ellison on a 1915VW with a Facet fuel pump. I >ran the pump all the time, but did tests to see if it would run in the event >that the pump lost power and it did. It would run at almost full throttle >with the pump switched off. > >Daniel R. Heath > >WWW.EAA242.ORG >www.JerryMahurin.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ross R. Youngblood" >Cc: >Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 9:24 PM >Subject: Re: KR> Full day at the airport. > > >> Robert, >> Looks like I wasn't too clear... it's been a while since I've posted >> my fuel setup on the 'net... so I will fill some details in here. >> You are correct, the fuel TANKS are not pressurized, but the fuel >> from tanks is under pressure at the gascolator when fed by a electric >> fuel pump. The hitch in my setup is that only the left and right wing >tanks >> have fuel pumps.. I have two seperate fuel pumps for L and R >> fuel tanks, but when I switch to the header tank, it is gravity feed. >> So, in theory, when I run the Ellison from one of the wing tanks, the >> fuel will be delivered under a higher pressure than what I'm getting >> from gravity feed. >> The Ellison throttle body injector does not have the traditional >> float bowl assembly. I don't have the exact quote, but the Ellison manual >> states that the fuel must be under pressure (approx 4psi min if I recall >> correctly) >> for the Ellison to feed fuel correctly. Prior discussions on the 'net >have >> indicated >> that a couple of KR's are flying OK using gravity feed for the Ellison. >So >> technically trying to operate as I was today is outside manufacturers >> specifications. >> And finally, my setup uses a three way fuel valve, I do not feed fuel from >> the wing tanks to the header tank and feed from the header. My design >> gives me two redundant fuel pumps from each wing tank to the gascolator, >> and a reserve 5 gal header which is gravity feed. I believe that I have >> successfully run the engine off the header, but that was a couple of years >ago, >> >> so now I'm considering that I may have been feeding fuel from one of the >> wing tanks at the time. >> >> Robert Stone wrote: >> >> > Ross: Since all fuel tanks must be vented they cannot be pressurized. >You >> > need three pumps (electric) one from each wing tank to the header and >the >> > third from the header tank to the carb. If the needle valve and float >in >> > the carb are working right the engine should get all the fuel it needs >to >> > keep on running and there should be no leaks. >> > >> > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx >> > rlspjs@dashlink.com >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Ross R. Youngblood" >> > To: >> > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 5:18 PM >> > Subject: KR> Full day at the airport. >> > >> > > Well, I spent about the last 8 hours working with the KR. >> > > It turns over and catches, but will not stay running long. >> > > I found that the Comp-u-Fire roter was mounted off, and >> > > re-installed that, and it got a bit better. >> > > I played with the Ellison idle mixture screw and loosened it >> > > about 3 turns in 1/2 turn increments, and each time it seemed >> > > to get a bit better, then the battery decided to give up. (Motorcycle >> > > battery). >> > > My wing tanks have independant fuel pumps, but I haven't hooked >> > > these up at the moment. I'm using the gravity feed header tank, so my >> > > current working theory is that gravity feed just doesn't supply enough >> > > pressure to keep the Ellison happy. Although I seemed to get closer >> > > and closer to a constant running engine with every 1/2 turn, it never >> > > ran for long after the starter was turned off. >> > > My goal for tomorrow is to get one of the wing tanks hooked up and >> > > try pressurized fuel from the fuel pump to see what happens. >> > > Previously, I was able to run from the header tank for long enough >> > > to time the engine and break it in without the prop up in Oregon. >It's >> > > been a couple of years, and the prop is on, but hopefully the timing >> > > hasn't been altered accidentally. >> > > I've got a couple of theories... any suggestions as to which might >> > > be the best choice. >> > > >> > > 1) No/low fuel flow. >> > > - Gravity feed may not be enough for sustainable Ellison >> > > operation >> > > although "I thought" that I had run from the header tank >> > > before. >> > > I may have been mistaken. >> > > 2) Timing altered. >> > > I'm tempted to alter the distributor timing, but would rather >> > > not disturb >> > > it as doing so leads to prop removal for re-timing, and >> > > re-torquing. This >> > > probably needs to happen anyway, I just don't want to do it >right >> > > now. >> > > 3) Not enough current. >> > > Perhaps there is not enough current from the battery to supply >> > > the starter >> > > AND the Compu-Fire ignition system. Although it does seem to >run >> > > OK >> > > initially. >> > > 4) Ignition switch issue. >> > > Perhaps there is an open in the ignition switch, which kills >> > > power to the electronic >> > > ignition when I move back from Start to ON. >> > > >> > > The Ellison was "factory set" for operation, but opening up the fuel >> > > mixture seemed to >> > > help for a while. I used a combination of primer (#1,#3 cyl), and >> > > starting fluid sprayed >> > > into the carb air intake. At one point, the primer seemed to be >working >> > > OK, I just couldn't >> > > sustain idle. The Ellison says to adjust the idle spring screw, when >> > > the engine quits after the >> > > primer fuel is burned off so I'm suspecting that fuel head pressure >has >> > > an impact on the idle >> > > mixture with this diaphram carb system. >> > > >> > > Any thoughts would be Appriciated! >> > > >> > > Thanks! >> > > Ross >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" >> > > >> > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> > > >> > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >> > > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! >> > > >> > > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" >> >> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> >> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! >> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:23:07 -0500 To: "KRNET" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: More Engine Runup festivities. Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Ross Youngblood [mailto:rossy65@home.com] Thanks for the post... I guess I would like to know what you mean by a high "cracking" presssure. The amount of vacuum required to keep the pump open? Or the pressure provided when the pump is on? --- reply ------- Ross, it's the initial pressure to push fuel through a pump which is not powered, or failed.. There is a valve in th pump which might restrict the fuel flow, and not all of them are easy to open. Check the fuel flow with the pump turned off. The issue (again) is will the Ellison allow the engine to run with gravity feed from the header tank is there is a pump or electrical failure. Also, the valve might change a bit with time. For that reason, I'm planning my system with a "FREE FLOW ONE WAY CHECK VALVE" parallleling the fuel pump from the headder tank. Aircraft spruce P/N 10630. In your case (ROSS) that may not be an issue if you're using the FACET pumps to transfer fuel from wings to main (header), but there has been some misleading info regarding the unpowered characteristics of the FACET pumps, and I thought this might be a useful discussion Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:23:32 -0700 To: ron.martha@mindspring.com, Frank Ross , krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Fuel Stabilizer? Message-Id: <20011122041734.COYA25332.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> You could kind of hear the Ellison guy when I was on the phone. ME: My engine has been sitting for two years and won't start... I think the carb has clogged. Ellison: You were using auto gas wern't you? ME: Yep.... what can I do short of shipping you the carb. Ellison: Gradually apply air pressure to the fuel inlet to 20-25psi to free the stuck valve. Actually, when I was in Oregon, I did a mix of auto fuel, then once the engine started, I had the fuel truck come by and put in some 100LL. But due to some gasket issues, a lot of that leaked out... thankfully the fuel seepage issue has been resolved. I set the compression on the VW low enough to burn auto fuel, but I will probably burn avgas or add fuel stabilizer. 11/21/2001 8:29:22 PM, "RONALD.FREIBERGER" wrote: >I switch between Florida and Indiana. One summer, I left without >disconnectong the fuel hose from my outboard. At summers end, the carbs >were filled wirh the brown gunk mentioned in an earlier post. Drain your >system when away for any long period of time ( a week ?). My new Honda 50 >Hp motoor has a bad reputation for "fuel gunking". > >Aviation gasoline don't do that! Farm tractor gas does it even worse. > >I was privliged to buy a very nice Jodel D-11 which had crashed due to gunk >in the carburetor. > >Take a test tube and ( very carefully ) boil away the gasoline, see what's >left behind; ugly shit. > >Ron Freiberger... >mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Frank Ross [mailto:kae_ar@yahoo.com] >Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:54 AM >To: krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> Engine Start...Nope/Fuel Stabilizer? > > >I had similar problems with a motorcycle that sat for >long periods without running. It helped a lot to put >"Fuel Stabilizer" in the fuel. Don't know about using >that for aircraft fuels or engines in aircraft. >Anybody have comments on that? > >--- macwood wrote: >> Hi Ross, I'm having the same problem as you >after sitting ... 2 years I'm >> having the same symptoms > >> Regards Mac-W > > >===== >Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals >http://personals.yahoo.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:46:37 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Todays Engine Activity. Message-Id: <20011122044040.BZNE986.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> Just checking on what/how folks set the timing on their VW's. The Great Plains specifies 28 BTDC assuming no advance mechanism, and therefore, I assume, they do not specify an RPM setting for this. The VW book specifies various timing settings for type I and type IV with some of the type I settings being ABTDC. I can't for the life of me figure out what I decided two years ago when I initially timed the engine, as far as RPM and setting. I decided that if the GPASC book called for 28 BTDC assuming no advance, that would be equivilant to the Bosch 009 advance at a higher RPM setting. My hot rod VW engine book has advance curves for various distributors but not the Bosch 009. It indicated that by 2500 rpm, most of these distributors had all their advance in play. I didn't make any notes when I initially timed the engine, and with the timing disk in place, it was close to 28BTDC even with the small adjustments. I tweeked it a bit today, then played with mixture to get the engine to idle smootly at 1000rpm. It doesn't want to idle nicely at 600-800 rpm yet. I replaced the propeller, and got some roughness (backfires) when going up around 2500 rpm this time. My hunch is that it was running rich, but I'm not 100% confident in my timing setting. The Ellison manual gives a iterative procedure for getting the idle speed adjustment down, involving tweeking the idle throttle stop and idle mixture screw, so I will play with this some more, ideally I would like a smooth idle between 600-800 rpm. After I leaned the mixture I recorded some higher EGT and CHT temperatures. I think I saw EGT up around 1100 which gives me more confidence in the EGT values. Oil temps were also a bit higher today getting closer to 200. Again, my probe is in the sump which is not where GPASC recommonds as it reads cooler at this location. The engine starts much easier with the primer in the new location aft of the Ellison. I verified reliable starts and adjusted idle speed after re-installing the carb heat plenum in front of the carb. I wanted to get a survey of what folks with starters are using for batteries. I am currenlty using a motorcycle battery, which has been taking a beating with repeated starts. I had hoped that this would be sufficient but thought I would ask if anyone else has been successful with such a small battery. I've noticed that I get hard starts when the battery becomes drained, and my working theory is that there is not enough voltage for the starter and the COMPU-FIRE ignition when this occurs, so it cranks but doesn't start well. I've got some clever solutions to this problem in mind, but the brute force solution would be to add some poundage and get a tractor battery or somthing else larger. Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:39:42 -0500 To: rossy65@home.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Todays Engine Activity. Message-ID: <20011122.100715.-126529.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Ross, Idle adjustment at idle. At idle shut down the engine by cutting off the fuel. If it speeds up you are too rich, adjust so it just dies. Battery. Tony B says that you can get 7 starts from a fully charged battery like yours. Recommends no alternator system but recharge overnight. This is only if you are using it for starting, not ignition like you are doing. Virg ( HUFF PUFF ) On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:46:37 -0700 Ross Youngblood writes: > > Just checking on what/how folks set the timing on their VW's. The > Great Plains specifies > 28 BTDC assuming no advance mechanism, and therefore, I assume, they > do not specify > an RPM setting for this. The VW book specifies various timing > settings for type I and type IV > with some of the type I settings being ABTDC. I can't for the life > of me figure out what I > decided two years ago when I initially timed the engine, as far as > RPM and setting. > > I decided that if the GPASC book called for 28 BTDC assuming no > advance, that would be > equivilant to the Bosch 009 advance at a higher RPM setting. My hot > rod VW engine book > has advance curves for various distributors but not the Bosch 009. > It indicated that by 2500 > rpm, most of these distributors had all their advance in play. I > didn't make any notes when I > initially timed the engine, and with the timing disk in place, it > was close to 28BTDC even with > the small adjustments. > > I tweeked it a bit today, then played with mixture to get the engine > to idle smootly at 1000rpm. > It doesn't want to idle nicely at 600-800 rpm yet. I replaced the > propeller, and got some > roughness (backfires) when going up around 2500 rpm this time. My > hunch is that it was > running rich, but I'm not 100% confident in my timing setting. > > The Ellison manual gives a iterative procedure for getting the idle > speed adjustment down, > involving tweeking the idle throttle stop and idle mixture screw, so > I will play with this some > more, ideally I would like a smooth idle between 600-800 rpm. > > After I leaned the mixture I recorded some higher EGT and CHT > temperatures. I think I > saw EGT up around 1100 which gives me more confidence in the EGT > values. Oil temps > were also a bit higher today getting closer to 200. Again, my probe > is in the sump which > is not where GPASC recommonds as it reads cooler at this location. > > The engine starts much easier with the primer in the new location > aft of the Ellison. > I verified reliable starts and adjusted idle speed after > re-installing the carb heat plenum > in front of the carb. > > I wanted to get a survey of what folks with starters are using for > batteries. I am currenlty > using a motorcycle battery, which has been taking a beating with > repeated starts. I had > hoped that this would be sufficient but thought I would ask if > anyone else has been > successful with such a small battery. I've noticed that I get hard > starts when the battery > becomes drained, and my working theory is that there is not enough > voltage for the > starter and the COMPU-FIRE ignition when this occurs, so it cranks > but doesn't start > well. I've got some clever solutions to this problem in mind, but > the brute force solution > would be to add some poundage and get a tractor battery or somthing > else larger. > > Ross Youngblood > rossy65@home.com > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other > system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:55:39 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Spinner Front bulkhead Message-Id: <20011122044942.BQLJ10558.femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> Question... My first spinner bowl was damaged in the move down from Oregon, so I purchased a new one from GPASC. I have cut and filed the prop clearance holes, and drilled the aft bulkhead screw holes successfully... now, I'm trying to figure out how to line up the forward bulkhead holes with the spinner. Somehow, this seemed easier when there were no holes drilled in the fwd bulkhead , and I can't recall how I managed to do such a good job the first time I did this. When I had the prop off last night, I looked at the assembly and decided I would get a more realistic fit with the two spinner bulkheads bolted tightly to the prop. But, of course, you can't get to the forward spinner bulkhead with the aft bulkhead in the way. It turns out that my holes in each bulkhead are well lined up, and I think I can just measure the distance and start drilling... but it looks really great now just using the aft bulkhead. One idea I had was to make some screws with sharp points on them, and screw them into the nut plates to make some scribe marks on the inside of the spinner... I'm not sure I want to go to that trouble. Anyone else have some great ideas on this? Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:41:06 -0500 To: rossy65@home.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Spinner Front bulkhead Message-ID: <20011122.100715.-126529.1.virgnvs@juno.com> No ideas here but keep up the good work, Virg On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:55:39 -0700 Ross Youngblood writes: > Question... > My first spinner bowl was damaged in the move down from Oregon, > so I purchased > a new one from GPASC. I have cut and filed the prop clearance > holes, and drilled > the aft bulkhead screw holes successfully... now, I'm trying to > figure out how to line > up the forward bulkhead holes with the spinner. > Somehow, this seemed easier when there were no holes drilled in > the fwd bulkhead > , and I can't recall how I managed to do such a good job the first > time I did this. > When I had the prop off last night, I looked at the assembly and > decided I would get a more > realistic fit with the two spinner bulkheads bolted tightly to the > prop. But, of course, you can't > get to the forward spinner bulkhead with the aft bulkhead in the > way. > It turns out that my holes in each bulkhead are well lined up, > and I think I can just measure the > distance and start drilling... but it looks really great now just > using the aft bulkhead. > One idea I had was to make some screws with sharp points on > them, and screw > them into the nut plates to make some scribe marks on the inside of > the spinner... > I'm not sure I want to go to that trouble. > Anyone else have some great ideas on this? > > Ross Youngblood > rossy65@home.com > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other > system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:51:33 -0500 To: rossy65@home.com From: "Philip J. Visconti" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Spinner Front bulkhead Message-ID: <20011122.105134.-418675.0.viscan@juno.com> Ross, Do you have Tony B's book "Firewall Forward" ? Chapter 12 addresses spinners. Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:11:47 -0700 To: Oscar Zuniga From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: Spinner Front bulkhead Message-Id: <20011122190542.SAOS27758.femail33.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> Oscar, Thanks for the tip. Tony Bengilis Firewall Forward covers this a bit too. He indicates however that the forward bulkhead is used for support and that it is not absolutly necessary to drill the holes into it. It's bothering me not having the second bulkhead physically attached, so I will probably fix it before long. It's OK for taxi tests I believe. -- Ross 11/22/2001 5:25:37 AM, "Oscar Zuniga" wrote: >[Ross asked about front bulkhead spinner and holes for it]- > >I've read in several places that you should use both bulkheads. You don't >want that spinner flying off. As far as measuring for the holes, how about >first inserting the forward bulkhead into the spinner (with all the pieces >taken off the prop hub, of course), scribing a line around the inside >circumference of the spinner at the edge of the bulkhead, also scribing an >index mark to align the bulkhead with the inside of the spinner, then >pulling out the bulkhead and wrapping a strip of paper around its perimeter, >marking the hole locations, then using that strip of paper to transfer those >hole locations to the outside circumference of the spinner (relative to your >index mark, of course)? Is that a long sentence, or what? > >Oscar Zuniga >Medford, Oregon >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > >From: Ross Youngblood >Reply-To: rossy65@home.com >To: krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: KR> Spinner Front bulkhead >Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:55:39 -0700 > >Question... > My first spinner bowl was damaged in the move down from Oregon, so I >purchased >a new one from GPASC. I have cut and filed the prop clearance holes, and >drilled >the aft bulkhead screw holes successfully... now, I'm trying to figure out >how to line >up the forward bulkhead holes with the spinner. > Somehow, this seemed easier when there were no holes drilled in the fwd >bulkhead >, and I can't recall how I managed to do such a good job the first time I >did this. >When I had the prop off last night, I looked at the assembly and decided I >would get a more >realistic fit with the two spinner bulkheads bolted tightly to the prop. >But, of course, you can't >get to the forward spinner bulkhead with the aft bulkhead in the way. > It turns out that my holes in each bulkhead are well lined up, and I >think I can just measure the >distance and start drilling... but it looks really great now just using the >aft bulkhead. > One idea I had was to make some screws with sharp points on them, and >screw >them into the nut plates to make some scribe marks on the inside of the >spinner... >I'm not sure I want to go to that trouble. > Anyone else have some great ideas on this? > >Ross Youngblood >rossy65@home.com > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:16:49 -0700 To: macwood From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Spinner Front bulkhead Message-Id: <20011122191045.RYZT14545.femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> Mac, Thanks... I follow the word of the great Tony too. I read that passage last night, and was at peace with the spinner. Sorry, the gospel of Tony Chapter and Verse, just cracked me up. -- Ross 11/22/2001 6:23:07 AM, "macwood" wrote: >Hi Ross, I followed the gospel, according to Tony Bingellis, chapter 12, >page 272, para 4,where he sayeth: "some people don't use screws to secure >the front bulkhead-and that's OK as it only serves to stabilise the spinner" >Regards Mac >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ross Youngblood >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:55 AM >Subject: KR> Spinner Front bulkhead > > >> Question... >> My first spinner bowl was damaged in the move down from Oregon, so I >purchased >> a new one from GPASC. I have cut and filed the prop clearance holes, and >drilled >> the aft bulkhead screw holes successfully... now, I'm trying to figure out >how to line >> up the forward bulkhead holes with the spinner. >> Somehow, this seemed easier when there were no holes drilled in the >fwd bulkhead >> , and I can't recall how I managed to do such a good job the first time I >did this. >> When I had the prop off last night, I looked at the assembly and decided I >would get a more >> realistic fit with the two spinner bulkheads bolted tightly to the prop. >But, of course, you can't >> get to the forward spinner bulkhead with the aft bulkhead in the way. >> It turns out that my holes in each bulkhead are well lined up, and I >think I can just measure the >> distance and start drilling... but it looks really great now just using >the aft bulkhead. >> One idea I had was to make some screws with sharp points on them, and >screw >> them into the nut plates to make some scribe marks on the inside of the >spinner... >> I'm not sure I want to go to that trouble. >> Anyone else have some great ideas on this? >> >> Ross Youngblood >> rossy65@home.com >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" >> >> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> >> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! >> > > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:21:47 -0700 To: Bob Unternaehrer From: Ross Youngblood CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Spinner Front bulkhead Message-Id: <20011122191543.TJWB10069.femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> Bob, 11/22/2001 6:48:19 AM, "Bob Unternaehrer" wrote: >What about the magnetic hole finders. Is your spinner and bulkheads al or >SS Bob U. Everyting is al. I have a electronic stud finder...what is a magnetic hole finder? Sounds like somthing that physicists use to look for charmed quarks in the galaxy to me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:04:29 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Fw: wheel pants Message-ID: <006101c1731b$8c4b4960$7600a8c0@athlon600> I got this from Jeff Scott, FYI. Looks like wheel pants are a definite plus... > Hi Mark, > > I did the flight testing with the RV-8 wheel pants this morning. I'll > let you run the numbers to come up with the true airspeeds. The test > flying was done at 8500' ASL and 6 degrees C. With no wheel pants, I was > indicating 128 mph at full throttle turning 2550 RPM. This is consistant > with what I had before I installed the wheel fairing mounts. With the > wheel pants installed, I was indicating 142 mph turning 2700 RPM. I > think that once you true these numbers up for temperature and altitude, > you'll probably find a 15 to 16 mph difference. At any rate, that's > pretty cheap speed. > > For comparison sake, my configuration is the Deihl gear, 5:00x5 Cleveland > wheels and brakes, and the full 5:00x5 tires. Most KRs are using a > smaller tire, so they don't have quite the drag from the tires that I do. > The important thing is that the RV-8 wheel pants cover the brake > calipers and the inboard gussets on the Diehl gear legs. > > BTW, I bought an O-200 yesterday. I has 87 SMOH and a bent crank, so > I'll have to do a tear down to install a new crank. Don't know what > other touches I might put in it, but suffice to say it will at the very > least be a balanced engine. I may also give it a significant bump in > compression, but haven't decided on that yet. > > Take care, > > Jeff > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:03:12 -0500 To: Mark Langford From: Tom Crawford CC: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Fw: wheel pants Message-ID: <3BFCF790.5ACC@ufl.edu> Mark Langford wrote: > > I got this from Jeff Scott, FYI. Looks like wheel pants are a definite > plus... > > > Hi Mark, > > > > I did the flight testing with the RV-8 wheel pants this morning. I'll > > let you run the numbers to come up with the true airspeeds. The test > > flying was done at 8500' ASL and 6 degrees C. With no wheel pants, I was > > indicating 128 mph at full throttle turning 2550 RPM. This is consistant > > with what I had before I installed the wheel fairing mounts. With the > > wheel pants installed, I was indicating 142 mph turning 2700 RPM. I > > think that once you true these numbers up for temperature and altitude, > > you'll probably find a 15 to 16 mph difference. At any rate, that's > > pretty cheap speed. Gentlemen, This is just about exactly the numbers I came up with. I have the Rand wheel pants with covers over the brake calipers on my tri-gear. With all three on, I get an extra 15 MPH. Any combination of them get me 5 MPH each. I did some extensive testing with this. Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Flying N???TC Wings Mailto:toys@ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:51:15 -0500 To: ron.martha@mindspring.com From: Tom Crawford CC: KRNET Subject: catching up Message-ID: <3BFD02D3.4D31@ufl.edu> RONALD.FREIBERGER wrote: > > I'm really curious about the Ellison carb and no pump issue. Tom Crawford > reported that his did OK, but one Facet pump I tested had a very high > "cracking" pressure. I assume these favorable reports come from using > header tank pressure ( gravity); I wonder how they'll perform as the tank > gets LOW, which is maybe important to know. > Hi Ron and Ross, I will repeat my findings for any newbies on the list. I have a Facet pump and a 12 gallon header tank. 2450cc T4 VW 9:1 compression, Ellison TBI, 54 X 52 Sterba prop, trigear KR2. 1) My Facet pump makes noise all the time it is on. It does not stop clicking until you turn it off. 2) My engine will run fine in all manner of flight WITHOUT the pump on. The only difference I have noticed is the EGT will be 150-200 degrees lower if I have the pump on during climbout. 3) Although the above is true, I feel you might get into problems without a pump if your header tank is very low. I switch the pump on as I taxi onto the active, and turn it off after leveling out at cruise. I switch it back on for any extended climbing thereafter. I also turn it back on on downwind in the pattern before throttling back much. This works well for me. YMMV. 4) On Ellison TBI's. After flying behind mine for 3+ years now, I am reminded of the old adage- "When you buy the best, you only cry once." The only problem I encountered of any significance was if you adjust the idle mixture the way they say to in the manual, it leaves it a little lean. Make it a little more rich from that point. 5) Ross stated that he could not get his engine to idle smoothly at 800 RPM. I don't know if it is the TBI, or an error in my tach, but mine is the same way. It seems happiest (and safest) around 950-1000 RPM idle. BTW, my engine was balanced. Don't set it any higher, or you will find you will land EXTRA long and have to use your brakes a lot more. It seems to be a fine line between idling smooth and NOT interfering with your landings. Those of you better versed in things that make airplanes fly may hypothesize on what the deal is here, but I think there are a lot of variables such as the TBI, prop pitch, 9:1 compression, no flaps, etc., etc. Bottom line is- it's good for me. 6) Batteries. I, too used a motorcycle battery, then a garden tractor battery, but found they leaked acid after yanking and banking. Finally installed an Odessey dry cell. Expensive. Love it. You only cry once. Lets see, what did I leave out? Primers. I use a conventional primer split between 2 opposing cylinders as recommended by Steve Bennet. At the time, I did not give it much thought, but it might be best to prime 2 cylinders that fire in order. Or better yet, prime all 4, or maybe prime upwind a bit like Ross has, so it gets to all 4. Mine works OK, but does not start as quick as I would like it to when cold. When it's warm, it starts on 1 blade. Hope y'all don't mind me replying to 2 weeks worth of posts in 1 day like this, but time has been short lately. Happy Thanksgiving, and be thankful that you are building a KR. It's worth it. Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC Flying KR2 N???TC Wings RV6A Mailto:toys@ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:31:49 -0700 To: toys@ufl.edu, ron.martha@mindspring.com From: Ross Youngblood CC: KRNET Subject: Re: KR> catching up Message-Id: <20011122192544.SUAA5819.femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> Tom, Thanks so much for this post! It really keeps the motivation level up. Especially the comment regarding idle speed. I'm making a short shopping list of add on goodies I want to put into the KR along the "cry once" list. Here they are. 1) Oddessy dry cell... does ACS carry these or do you have a vendor of choice? 2) One of those nifty engine analizers, (Like I think Mark Langford has). After getting wiggles on my CHT and EGT, I'm thinking it would be nice to know what all the cylinders are doing. 3) Second set of cylinder heads with two plugs, and a magneto. My thoughts are to do this at the 100 hour maintence cycle, then have the other set of heads drilled for two plugs as well. 4) Real cowling... either buy a revmaster cowling from Rand, or beg Mark for a copy of his plug mold and build one out of Kevlar. 5) Fixed gear... for the day after my 10th ground loop or gear up landing. 6) Balanced 2180 long block, and possibly new direct drive mount. 7) Thinking about those nifty 40Amp alternators on the Compu-Fire website. They look just like the 20A alternator I have from the photos. Then, I can install the DVD entertainment system on the right side of the panel and watch movies in flight... (Just kidding). 11/22/2001 6:51:15 AM, Tom Crawford wrote: >RONALD.FREIBERGER wrote: >> >> I'm really curious about the Ellison carb and no pump issue. Tom Crawford >> reported that his did OK, but one Facet pump I tested had a very high >> "cracking" pressure. I assume these favorable reports come from using >> header tank pressure ( gravity); I wonder how they'll perform as the tank >> gets LOW, which is maybe important to know. >> > > >Hi Ron and Ross, > >I will repeat my findings for any newbies on the list. I have a Facet >pump and a 12 gallon header tank. 2450cc T4 VW 9:1 compression, Ellison >TBI, 54 X 52 Sterba prop, trigear KR2. > >1) My Facet pump makes noise all the time it is on. It does not stop >clicking until you turn it off. > >2) My engine will run fine in all manner of flight WITHOUT the pump on. >The only difference I have noticed is the EGT will be 150-200 degrees >lower if I have the pump on during climbout. > >3) Although the above is true, I feel you might get into problems >without a pump if your header tank is very low. I switch the pump on as >I taxi onto the active, and turn it off after leveling out at cruise. I >switch it back on for any extended climbing thereafter. I also turn it >back on on downwind in the pattern before throttling back much. This >works well for me. YMMV. > >4) On Ellison TBI's. After flying behind mine for 3+ years now, I am >reminded of the old adage- "When you buy the best, you only cry once." >The only problem I encountered of any significance was if you adjust the >idle mixture the way they say to in the manual, it leaves it a little >lean. Make it a little more rich from that point. > >5) Ross stated that he could not get his engine to idle smoothly at 800 >RPM. I don't know if it is the TBI, or an error in my tach, but mine is >the same way. It seems happiest (and safest) around 950-1000 RPM idle. >BTW, my engine was balanced. Don't set it any higher, or you will find >you will land EXTRA long and have to use your brakes a lot more. It >seems to be a fine line between idling smooth and NOT interfering with >your landings. Those of you better versed in things that make airplanes >fly may hypothesize on what the deal is here, but I think there are a >lot of variables such as the TBI, prop pitch, 9:1 compression, no flaps, >etc., etc. Bottom line is- it's good for me. > >6) Batteries. I, too used a motorcycle battery, then a garden tractor >battery, but found they leaked acid after yanking and banking. Finally >installed an Odessey dry cell. >Expensive. Love it. You only cry once. > >Lets see, what did I leave out? Primers. I use a conventional primer >split between 2 opposing cylinders as recommended by Steve Bennet. At >the time, I did not give it much thought, but it might be best to prime >2 cylinders that fire in order. Or better yet, prime all 4, or maybe >prime upwind a bit like Ross has, so it gets to all 4. Mine works OK, >but does not start as quick as I would like it to when cold. When it's >warm, it starts on 1 blade. > >Hope y'all don't mind me replying to 2 weeks worth of posts in 1 day >like this, but time has been short lately. > >Happy Thanksgiving, and be thankful that you are building a KR. It's >worth it. > > >Tom Crawford >Gainesville, FL >N262TC Flying KR2 >N???TC Wings RV6A >Mailto:toys@ufl.edu > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:28:20 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: batteries Message-ID: <081601c1736a$518c6e90$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> NetHeads, Here's something I posted on my website last year after choosing my battery. Since I wrote this I have also found a tiny (3x2x5) UPS battery good for 7.2Ah, which will make a dandy isolated backup battery to keep the engine running long enough to find an airport. There may be better technology than what I have listed below, but this is where I'm headed at the moment, and you can't beat the price. It cranks my Corvair engine over... --------------- I recently spent the entire DAY researching batteries. What got me started on this was seeing the Black Panther batteries in the Wicks catalog. They list one that has 600 CCA (cold cranking amps) that I later discovered is a 16Ah (at 10 hours) battery, for $113. I looked at Gills, Bells, Interstates, etc, and finally came full circle to the actual manufacturer of the Black Panther, which is Hawker Energy Products (http://www.hepi.com/). The standard aircraft batteries are typically 25 or 35 Ah. The AGM technology used in the Hawker Genesis batteries makes them very reliable and with an amazingly high CCA value for cranking things like large 6 cylinder Corvair engines. They are also permanently sealed (by definition) and can be mounted in any orientation. My KR2S electrical system is going to be very current miserly. My radio and transponder are Terra (less than 2A combined), strobes are Kuntzlemann (less than 2A draw), ignition is coil and points (1A per 1000 rpm, according to William) totaling 3A at cruise, and my nav lights are super bright LEDs (Stefan Belatchev's idea) that draw less than .1A. All of this can be turned off so that only the engine's coil and fuel pump are running, which totals 3.7 amps. My ignition switch will control ignition coil and fuel pump without a breaker inline (if either quits, you're going down anyway), but all other electrical items will be separate and will have breaker/switches. The G12V16EP battery that I chose will run this "minimum load" for 4 hours! And if my Corvair runs anything like the rest of my cars, it'll start in 1 or 2 seconds, mininizing starting drain. My EIS (Engine Information System) has programmable alarms, and the voltage trigger level can be set to something like 13 volts so that if my alternator quits charging, the EIS will immediately notify me and I'll have something like 2 hours to find a landing spot even without bothering to switch off the radio and transponder! For ME, that's a good enough margin. And it is very compact, with a height of only 3 inches, perfect for the upper firewall shelf of a KR. Best of all, it weighs 13.5 pounds, half the weight of a 35Ah Gill! The icing on the cake is that I ordered it for $64 from one of Hawker's suppliers, Battery Specialties, Inc (1-800-854-5759). That's half what Wicks charges. Battery Specialties is the third place I called, and they just happen to have a bunch of these on order, and they'll be getting them in 4 weeks. More typical is a 6 month waiting list! There must be a reason why these things are in such high demand. Yes, I'll do the testing to make sure that my electrical system has a sufficient margin of safety (after all, my wife's going to be flying this thing, along with my kids, someday), and if I need to, I can add another 13Ah battery (11 pounds) for a backup battery. These two batteries COMBINED weigh less than a Gill, and have almost the same reserve current capacity, but far more cranking power. If you're not inclined to live on the edge like me, you could always buy the G12V26EP for $98 and have one FINE 26Ah battery, with 800 CCA and the potential to mount in any orientation. I also discovered the Interstate U1-33AGM, a 33Ah battery that you should be able to get at your local Interstate dealer for about $85. It uses the same AGM technology and is also permanently sealed like the others I've mentioned. After talking to several other aircraft owners, I've found several others using similar batteries, one even using an 8Ah battery to start and power his 2.2 liter JPX engine, so I think I'm on the right track here... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:26:31 -0800 (PST) To: Group KR NET From: Tim Brown Subject: rudder pedals Message-ID: <20011122172631.2541.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Net: August 1 I bought from RR the rudder pedals but she did not have the brackets. They were due in September. They still have not arrived to her and therefore, me. Does anyone have the nylon brackets that they decided not to use? If so...wanna sell them? Contact me off net if you have a set to get rid of. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************