From: <krnet-digest-help@mailinglists.org>
To: <krnet@mailinglists.org>
Subject: krnet Digest 25 Nov 2001 21:56:41 -0000 Issue 328
Date: Sunday, November 25, 2001 1:57 PM

krnet Digest 25 Nov 2001 21:56:41 -0000 Issue 328

Topics (messages 7704 through 7733):

stick location
	7704 by: Tim Brown
	7705 by: Frank Ross
	7706 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER
	7709 by: Daniel Heath
	7710 by: Ed Janssen
	7724 by: Serge VIDAL
	7727 by: Stuart Deal
	7729 by: virgnvs.juno.com

Some photos at last
	7707 by: John and Janet Martindale
	7712 by: Daniel Heath
	7716 by: Ross Youngblood
	7725 by: Mike Mims

Harmonics and RPM issues.
	7708 by: Ross Youngblood
	7711 by: Michael Geoghegan
	7713 by: Mark Langford
	7717 by: Ross Youngblood

Rudder/brake effectiveness
	7714 by: John and Janet Martindale
	7715 by: Daniel Heath

Control Stops
	7718 by: Jim Morehead
	7720 by: larry flesner
	7730 by: virgnvs.juno.com

Responses
	7719 by: John and Janet Martindale
	7723 by: Mark Jones

Dr. Dean's fuselage
	7721 by: Mark Langford

Bendix King KX99
	7722 by: Serge VIDAL

Re: more photos
	7726 by: Flymaca711689.cs.com

Battery
	7728 by: bob.flyboybob.com
	7731 by: Ross Youngblood
	7732 by: Mark Langford

Fuel Head Pressure
	7733 by: Ross Youngblood

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 12:41:23 -0800 (PST)
To: Group KR NET <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: Tim Brown <timwbrown@yahoo.com>
Subject: stick location
Message-ID: <20011124204123.24306.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com>

Having never flown "by stick" before, could you
all comment on the pros and cons of placing it
between the pilot and passenger versus between
the pilot's legs.

Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location.

Tim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 12:50:06 -0800 (PST)
To: krnet@mailinglists.org
From: Frank Ross <kae_ar@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KR> stick location
Message-ID: <20011124205006.70061.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>

<SNIP> could you comment on <SNIP> placing (THE STICK)
> between the pilot and passenger versus between
> the pilot's legs.<SNIP>leaning towards the center 
> Tim

Tim,
I've been mulling this around too. One of the
advantages of having it between the two seats is that
you can straddle it and use the left rudder pedal on
the left side and the right rudder on the right side
for a very roomy one-seater. Flying left seat with a
center stick makes it difficult to change radios,
throttle, etc, however. I'd like to have a left
side-mounted stick, but not sure how that would be
done. Fortunately, I have plenty of time before I have
to make any decisions.

=====
Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX,

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:06:37 -0500
To: "Tim Brown" <timwbrown@yahoo.com>,
	"Group KR NET" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" <ron.martha@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: KR> stick location
Message-ID: <LOBBLOLDFNFIPPGCDBDJCEGBCOAA.ron.martha@mindspring.com>

I have flown several configurations, and I flew Chris Heintz's Prototype and
personal airplane ( a long time ago ) and found the center mounted stick in
a side by side cockpit to be very easy and natural.  I decided on that
flight that if I had the opportunity, I'd build that way.  And, that's what
I'm doing.  Sitting in the middle position as a single place is also
excellent.  You need to make sure the outside pedals have braking
facilities.  Or, the inside if you're dyslexic  ;o)

I used floor mounted pedals, and put a torque tube through each set so as to
be able to operate the brakes from either arrangement, and/or by either
pilot.

Ron Freiberger...
mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Brown [mailto:timwbrown@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:41 PM
To: Group KR NET
Subject: KR> stick location

Having never flown "by stick" before, could you
all comment on the pros and cons of placing it
between the pilot and passenger versus between
the pilot's legs.

Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location.

Tim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:03:31 -0500
To: <ron.martha@mindspring.com>,
	"Tim Brown" <timwbrown@yahoo.com>,
	"Group KR NET" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "Daniel Heath" <DanRH@att.net>
Subject: Re: KR> stick location
Message-ID: <001201c1753c$3d48bff0$e62b5d0c@scana.com>

I flew the Little Beast KR2 for over 6 years and found the most
UNcomfortable part of it was the center stick.  You can only fly with your
right hand, cannot hold the stick with your legs if you need to unfold a
map, difficult to reach across to the radio or try to fly with the left hand
across the body while fiddling with the radio with the right hand.

This KR we are building now has already been converted to dual stick and
sitting in and pretending.....  I know it is going to be great.

Daniel R. Heath

WWW.EAA242.ORG
www.JerryMahurin.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" <ron.martha@mindspring.com>
To: "Tim Brown" <timwbrown@yahoo.com>; "Group KR NET"
<krnet@mailinglists.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: KR> stick location

> I have flown several configurations, and I flew Chris Heintz's Prototype
and
> personal airplane ( a long time ago ) and found the center mounted stick
in
> a side by side cockpit to be very easy and natural.  I decided on that
> flight that if I had the opportunity, I'd build that way.  And, that's
what
> I'm doing.  Sitting in the middle position as a single place is also
> excellent.  You need to make sure the outside pedals have braking
> facilities.  Or, the inside if you're dyslexic  ;o)
>
> I used floor mounted pedals, and put a torque tube through each set so as
to
> be able to operate the brakes from either arrangement, and/or by either
> pilot.
>
> Ron Freiberger...
> mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Brown [mailto:timwbrown@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:41 PM
> To: Group KR NET
> Subject: KR> stick location
>
>
> Having never flown "by stick" before, could you
> all comment on the pros and cons of placing it
> between the pilot and passenger versus between
> the pilot's legs.
>
> Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:22:59 -0600
To: <ron.martha@mindspring.com>,
	"Tim Brown" <timwbrown@yahoo.com>,
	"Group KR NET" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen)
Subject: Re: KR> stick location
Message-ID: <000f01c1753e$f4f4f180$0200a8c0@dad>

I've owned two different KR-1s - one with a center stick and one with a side
stick.  The side stick won, hands down.  I built a simple arm rest along the
side of the fuselage and then moved the side stick with finger and wrist
movements.  It felt very natural and was exceptionally comfortable while
flying.

Ed

----- Original Message -----
From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" <ron.martha@mindspring.com>
To: "Tim Brown" <timwbrown@yahoo.com>; "Group KR NET"
<krnet@mailinglists.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: KR> stick location

> I have flown several configurations, and I flew Chris Heintz's Prototype
and
> personal airplane ( a long time ago ) and found the center mounted stick
in
> a side by side cockpit to be very easy and natural.  I decided on that
> flight that if I had the opportunity, I'd build that way.  And, that's
what
> I'm doing.  Sitting in the middle position as a single place is also
> excellent.  You need to make sure the outside pedals have braking
> facilities.  Or, the inside if you're dyslexic  ;o)
>
> I used floor mounted pedals, and put a torque tube through each set so as
to
> be able to operate the brakes from either arrangement, and/or by either
> pilot.
>
> Ron Freiberger...
> mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Brown [mailto:timwbrown@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:41 PM
> To: Group KR NET
> Subject: KR> stick location
>
>
> Having never flown "by stick" before, could you
> all comment on the pros and cons of placing it
> between the pilot and passenger versus between
> the pilot's legs.
>
> Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:25:22 +0200
To: "Frank Ross" <kae_ar@yahoo.com>, <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "Serge VIDAL" <svidal@icon.co.za>
Subject: Re: KR> stick location
Message-ID: <02e301c175c3$1d3a0a20$c504a8c0@sergevateint>

And how are you going to set the safety belts?

Serge VIDAL
ZS-WEC
Johannesburg, South Africa
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Frank Ross <kae_ar@yahoo.com>
To: <krnet@mailinglists.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: KR> stick location

> <SNIP> could you comment on <SNIP> placing (THE STICK)
> > between the pilot and passenger versus between
> > the pilot's legs.<SNIP>leaning towards the center 
> > Tim
> 
> Tim,
> I've been mulling this around too. One of the
> advantages of having it between the two seats is that
> you can straddle it and use the left rudder pedal on
> the left side and the right rudder on the right side
> for a very roomy one-seater. Flying left seat with a
> center stick makes it difficult to change radios,
> throttle, etc, however. I'd like to have a left
> side-mounted stick, but not sure how that would be
> done. Fortunately, I have plenty of time before I have
> to make any decisions.
> 
> =====
> Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX,
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
> 
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
> 
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 08:08:35 +0000
To: Tim Brown <timwbrown@yahoo.com>
From: Stuart Deal <sdeal@sonic.net>
CC: Group KR NET <krnet@mailinglists.org>
Subject: Re: KR> stick location
Message-ID: <3C00A703.A7656034@sonic.net>

Food for thought Tim,

If you build the stick with a square tube, you could safely
attach left/right extensions, if you want to put the throttle in
the middle for "true dual".

Here is an example, admittedly not a KR:
http://24.132.87.61/vp2/vp2-4/vp2-4a.jpg

This could alternate with a single handle with a top bolt for access.

Stuart

Tim Brown wrote:
> 
> Having never flown "by stick" before, could you
> all comment on the pros and cons of placing it
> between the pilot and passenger versus between
> the pilot's legs.
> 
> Fo now, I am leaning towards the center location.
> 
> Tim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:09:58 -0500
To: kae_ar@yahoo.com
From: virgnvs@juno.com
Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: KR> stick location
Message-ID: <20011125.152848.-272681.2.virgnvs@juno.com>

        Original KR-1 had a side stick. Reverse copy for left stick. How
about one on each side ?? Virg

On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 12:50:06 -0800 (PST) Frank Ross <kae_ar@yahoo.com>
writes:
> <SNIP> could you comment on <SNIP> placing (THE STICK)
> > between the pilot and passenger versus between
> > the pilot's legs.<SNIP>leaning towards the center 
> > Tim
> 
> Tim,
> I've been mulling this around too. One of the
> advantages of having it between the two seats is that
> you can straddle it and use the left rudder pedal on
> the left side and the right rudder on the right side
> for a very roomy one-seater. Flying left seat with a
> center stick makes it difficult to change radios,
> throttle, etc, however. I'd like to have a left
> side-mounted stick, but not sure how that would be
> done. Fortunately, I have plenty of time before I have
> to make any decisions.
> 
> =====
> Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX,
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just 
> $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
> 
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
> 
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other 
> system!
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:29:00 +1100
To: "Corvaircraft" <corvaircraft@usm.edu>, "KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "John and Janet Martindale" <johnjane@chc.net.au>
Subject: Some photos at last
Message-ID: <001001c17537$6b633780$55236e40@m1g0x7>

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C17593.9DAD30E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi folks

I've finally got some pictures of my Corvair in KR2 posted thanks to =
Mark Langford. Go to http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/jmartindale/  or =
www.krnet.org if you want a peep.

See Ya John

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C17593.9DAD30E0--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:37:01 -0500
To: "John and Janet Martindale" <johnjane@chc.net.au>,
	"Corvaircraft" <corvaircraft@usm.edu>,
	"KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "Daniel Heath" <DanRH@att.net>
Subject: Re: KR> Some photos at last
Message-ID: <002201c17540$eb79a860$282c5d0c@scana.com>

Very cool craft.  I love the straight pipes, I'll bet they sound great.

Neat canopy arrangement.  I haven't seen that one before.

Daniel R. Heath

WWW.EAA242.ORG
www.JerryMahurin.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "John and Janet Martindale" <johnjane@chc.net.au>
To: "Corvaircraft" <corvaircraft@usm.edu>; "KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 5:29 PM
Subject: KR> Some photos at last

Hi folks

I've finally got some pictures of my Corvair in KR2 posted thanks to Mark
Langford. Go to http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/jmartindale/  or
www.krnet.org if you want a peep.

See Ya John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:42:38 -0700
To: John and Janet Martindale <johnjane@chc.net.au>, KRnet <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: Ross Youngblood <rossy65@home.com>
Subject: Re: KR> Some photos at last
Message-Id: <20011125033630.HHMH8136.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a>

John,
  Terrific photograph!
  Say how did you get such a nice polish on your spinner?
  I have been considering starting to polish mine.  One reference Tony B. indicates
I could start by filing then move to sanding.  What was your first abrasive?
 -- Ross
11/24/2001 4:37:01 PM, "Daniel Heath" <DanRH@att.net> wrote:

>Very cool craft.  I love the straight pipes, I'll bet they sound great.
>
>Neat canopy arrangement.  I haven't seen that one before.
>
>Daniel R. Heath
>
>WWW.EAA242.ORG
>www.JerryMahurin.com
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John and Janet Martindale" <johnjane@chc.net.au>
>To: "Corvaircraft" <corvaircraft@usm.edu>; "KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
>Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 5:29 PM
>Subject: KR> Some photos at last
>
>
>Hi folks
>
>I've finally got some pictures of my Corvair in KR2 posted thanks to Mark
>Langford. Go to http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/jmartindale/  or
>www.krnet.org if you want a peep.
>
>See Ya John
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
>
>To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
>For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
>See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
>AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!
>
>

Ross Youngblood
rossy65@home.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 07:30:56 -0800 (PST)
To: rossy65@home.com, John and Janet Martindale <johnjane@chc.net.au>,
  KRnet <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: Mike Mims <gti20vturbo@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KR> Some photos at last
Message-ID: <20011125153056.12374.qmail@web10808.mail.yahoo.com>

Nice looking plane. Hey your canopy hinge idea brings
back memories of another "napkin drawing". I think it
was back a few years that I drew up a idea similar to
that on a "napkin" at Perry Ok during a KR gathering. 
Also Troy Petteways new tail design was a "napkin
drawing" from that very same gathering.  Did you guys
know that the Sky Raider was first drawn on a
"napkin"?  

Anyway just in case people are wondering, yes I still
read the KRnet. My Banzi saw is starting to itch and
my nose longs for the scent of freshly cut spruce. 
:o)

Regards,
Mike Mims

> >Hi folks
> >
> >I've finally got some pictures of my Corvair in KR2
> posted thanks to Mark
> >Langford. Go to
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/jmartindale/  or
> >www.krnet.org if you want a peep.
> >
> >See Ya John
> >
> >

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:34:00 -0700
To: krnet@mailinglists.org
From: Ross Youngblood <rossy65@home.com>
Subject: Harmonics and RPM issues.
Message-Id: <20011124222751.YKQQ24213.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a>

Howdy 'netters!
   I went out again today for a couple of hours of engine run up time.
I was able to smooth out the idle rpm, I think I can get it down below 900
if I wanted to.  My biggest accomplishment today was getting the idle mixture
down low enough so I can kill the engine by pulling the mixture to idle cut-off.
The Ellison has an idle mixture circuit which I had set too rich so the engine would
continue to run.
  This gave me a good change to time how long the engine would idle after
switching the fuel cutoff... about 20 seconds.
   After the idle speed was tweeked.  I worked on tweeking the high speed
operation.  I found that the engine max RPM was around 2500.  After it hits
24-2500 RPM, adding additional throttle made an "interesting" additional sound
which would disappear when the throttle was reduced.
   Examining the prop shows some stress cracks in the urethane coating
on the aft side of both blades... not a very encouraging sign.  I pulled the prop
and verified that I can get the RPM up to 4000 or so  I didn't make a point of
going much beyond 4000RPM, the point is that the prop is limiting RPM to 2500.
  I have a 52x44 Props Inc propellor turning behind my 1835cc engine.

   I need to validate that the RPM gauge is indicating properly. With the Comp-U-Fire
ignition, I get a pulse from one of the coils which feeds the gauge.  I suppose it could
be reading 1/2 the actual RPM, which would say that I got the prop to turn at 5000 RPM
which I don't beleive... if this was the case, I would have expected more noise, as the
tips went supersonic... although perhaps that is what happened... it would explain the
stress fractures in the coating.  The wood in the prop appears undamaged at this
point.  I've pulled the prop and am mulling over my options.   My first priority is to
get some alternative tach to validate the RPM, then order another propeller.

    I suppose the one I have may be OK, but it's either the cause of this problem, or
it has been run at too high an RPM, so I'm pondering my options at the moment.

   If I think hard enough I should be able to calculate at what speed the prop tips
on a 52x44 prop go supersonic.    I don't recall off the top of my head what the
speed of sound is but I've got it in a physics book somewhere, along with the formula
for a circle which involves pi.  Speaking of pi... I'm going to have some leftover pumpkin
pie later, darn, its all been eaten.

  The good side is that the KR starts like a dream, one shot of primer, and vroom.

   Also, I determined that my alternator is not quite putting out enough current to feed the Comp-U-Fire
ignition at 2500 RPM.  I monitored the voltage at various RPM settings, and although I got 12V at 2500
It appearantly was not enough current to make the Compu-Fire happy.

I also grabbed lots of good EGT/CHT/Oil data at various RPM settings with the cowling on and off 
which I will eventually put up in an Excel spreadsheet on the website.

Many thanks to Rick Junkin's test plan and a 1988 copy of Jim Pratts checklist
which has moved to:
   http://w3.tyenet.com/raa/check.htm

Ross Youngblood
rossy65@home.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:26:37 -0500
To: rossy65@home.com
From: Michael Geoghegan <humidors@sover.net>
CC: krnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: KR> Harmonics and RPM issues.
Message-ID: <3C002CAD.986AEDCC@sover.net>

Ross

The formula for tip speed is Prop dia. X 3.1416 X RPM / 720.  Tip speed shouldn't go past 850 fps.  At 3750
your tip speed would be 850.85 fps.  If you could turn 5000 RPM it would be around mach 1.3.  My 52x42
Sterba prop limits my rpm to 3200 on my 1800 cc VW.  It won't go any higher without more horsepower.  I
think you might have a bit more pitch on your prop than 44 inches.  It seems that different manufacturers
have different ways of measuring their pitch.  I ran through the same process and finally checked the RPM
with a prop tach.  Turns out the RPM was right on.  See if you can verify the pitch.

Mike Geoghegan N47MG
Moretown Vermont

Ross Youngblood wrote:

> Howdy 'netters!
>    I went out again today for a couple of hours of engine run up time.
> I was able to smooth out the idle rpm, I think I can get it down below 900
> if I wanted to.  My biggest accomplishment today was getting the idle mixture
> down low enough so I can kill the engine by pulling the mixture to idle cut-off.
> The Ellison has an idle mixture circuit which I had set too rich so the engine would
> continue to run.
>   This gave me a good change to time how long the engine would idle after
> switching the fuel cutoff... about 20 seconds.
>    After the idle speed was tweeked.  I worked on tweeking the high speed
> operation.  I found that the engine max RPM was around 2500.  After it hits
> 24-2500 RPM, adding additional throttle made an "interesting" additional sound
> which would disappear when the throttle was reduced.
>    Examining the prop shows some stress cracks in the urethane coating
> on the aft side of both blades... not a very encouraging sign.  I pulled the prop
> and verified that I can get the RPM up to 4000 or so  I didn't make a point of
> going much beyond 4000RPM, the point is that the prop is limiting RPM to 2500.
>   I have a 52x44 Props Inc propellor turning behind my 1835cc engine.
>
>    I need to validate that the RPM gauge is indicating properly. With the Comp-U-Fire
> ignition, I get a pulse from one of the coils which feeds the gauge.  I suppose it could
> be reading 1/2 the actual RPM, which would say that I got the prop to turn at 5000 RPM
> which I don't beleive... if this was the case, I would have expected more noise, as the
> tips went supersonic... although perhaps that is what happened... it would explain the
> stress fractures in the coating.  The wood in the prop appears undamaged at this
> point.  I've pulled the prop and am mulling over my options.   My first priority is to
> get some alternative tach to validate the RPM, then order another propeller.
>
>     I suppose the one I have may be OK, but it's either the cause of this problem, or
> it has been run at too high an RPM, so I'm pondering my options at the moment.
>
>    If I think hard enough I should be able to calculate at what speed the prop tips
> on a 52x44 prop go supersonic.    I don't recall off the top of my head what the
> speed of sound is but I've got it in a physics book somewhere, along with the formula
> for a circle which involves pi.  Speaking of pi... I'm going to have some leftover pumpkin
> pie later, darn, its all been eaten.
>
>   The good side is that the KR starts like a dream, one shot of primer, and vroom.
>
>    Also, I determined that my alternator is not quite putting out enough current to feed the Comp-U-Fire
> ignition at 2500 RPM.  I monitored the voltage at various RPM settings, and although I got 12V at 2500
> It appearantly was not enough current to make the Compu-Fire happy.
>
> I also grabbed lots of good EGT/CHT/Oil data at various RPM settings with the cowling on and off
> which I will eventually put up in an Excel spreadsheet on the website.
>
> Many thanks to Rick Junkin's test plan and a 1988 copy of Jim Pratts checklist
> which has moved to:
>    http://w3.tyenet.com/raa/check.htm
>
> Ross Youngblood
> rossy65@home.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:04:09 -0600
To: <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "Mark Langford" <langford@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: KR> Harmonics and RPM issues.
Message-ID: <088101c17544$b5cd4880$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a>

RossY wrote:

>After it hits
> 24-2500 RPM, adding additional throttle made an "interesting" additional
sound
> which would disappear when the throttle was reduced.

That noise sounds like it might be detonation, which is commonly heard at
wide open throttle at low rpm.  If that's the case, you'd better fix it
before first flight or you likely won't make it around the pattern!
Detonation probably indicates the compression ratio is too high, or maybe
that the mixture is too lean, or the spark plugs might be the wrong heat
range.  I don't know the history of your particular engine, but the 1835 can
easily have too high a compression ratio if the heads were cut out too deep.
One test might be to run it richer to see if it helps, or use higher octane
fuel (if you're running autogas).

Prop damage (and the noise) could also be caused by torsional vibration.
That's a whole nuther animal that you don't want any part of.  Tell us about
your engine's pedigree, compression gauge readings, etc...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:02:30 -0700
To: Mark Langford <langford@hiwaay.net>, krnet@mailinglists.org
From: Ross Youngblood <rossy65@home.com>
Subject: Re: KR> Harmonics and RPM issues.
Message-Id: <20011125035621.FHQR10558.femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a>

Mark,
    Well I'm certainly grounded until I get to the bottom of this issue.
Detonation is somthing I hadn't thought of.  I thought I would know what
detonation would sound like, but it's very possible that is what is occuring.
I cc'ed the heads and purchased deck height shims so I could run auto
gas, but I need to review my calculations to see what I came up with.
The engine was built from a Great Plains 1835cc long block kit.
    I planned to gather some static compression data with my compression
gauge, but I don't have the nifty aircraft metered compression gauge setup
with the calibrated leak.  If I can, I will try and get the static compresion
data tomorrow, if not, later in the week.
   While looking at this problem, I tried various mixture settings, and I belive
I even tried full rich.  My primary objective at the time was to see if I could
get the RPM's above 2400-2500.  Once I get to 2400 rpm, adding additional
throttle may just be leading me to detonation, but it could also be some type
of oscillation that is setup by putting more energy into the system (throttle).
    I'm considering some experiments to look at this, but I didn't like the
sound of the valve train when I did my RPM check with the prop off, so
I want to re-check all the valve clearances and the timing again.
     I didn't do a properllor tracking check prior to all of this so this could
have set me up for torsional vibration as well.  Having the spinner on without
screwing into the forward bulkhead might also contribute to torsional vibration,
so a spinner off experiment may also say somthing.
     I like the detonation theory as it seems to be easily managed.  Torsional
vibration is more of my worst case nightmare which is the kind of issue I thought
I was looking at.  Although I need to rule out tachometer error first before going
down too far on other paths.  Tachometer error, although unlikely would explain
the low alternator output as I wouldn't be spun up fast enough to get the current
I'm expecting at 2500 rpm if I'm really at 1250.  Although this seems kinda far fetched.
    Detonation would be a good problem to have actually as I understand how to
fix it.  Tachometer error... the fix depends on what type of errror.  Vibration?  Thats
an ugly one it implies that somthing is too loose someplace, or that there is some
resonant mechanical feedback someplace.

    Thanks again for the detonation theory!

11/24/2001 5:04:09 PM, "Mark Langford" <langford@hiwaay.net> wrote:

>RossY wrote:
>
>>After it hits
>> 24-2500 RPM, adding additional throttle made an "interesting" additional
>sound
>> which would disappear when the throttle was reduced.
>
>That noise sounds like it might be detonation, which is commonly heard at
>wide open throttle at low rpm.  If that's the case, you'd better fix it
>before first flight or you likely won't make it around the pattern!
>Detonation probably indicates the compression ratio is too high, or maybe
>that the mixture is too lean, or the spark plugs might be the wrong heat
>range.  I don't know the history of your particular engine, but the 1835 can
>easily have too high a compression ratio if the heads were cut out too deep.
>One test might be to run it richer to see if it helps, or use higher octane
>fuel (if you're running autogas).
>
>Prop damage (and the noise) could also be caused by torsional vibration.
>That's a whole nuther animal that you don't want any part of.  Tell us about
>your engine's pedigree, compression gauge readings, etc...
>
>Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
>mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
>see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
>
>To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
>For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
>See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
>AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!
>
>

Ross Youngblood
rossy65@home.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:36:59 +1100
To: "KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "John and Janet Martindale" <johnjane@chc.net.au>
Subject: Rudder/brake effectiveness
Message-ID: <001001c17549$6b9b8060$2d236e40@m1g0x7>

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Hi again folks

I have a chronic problem that I've been putting off and off hoping that =
something would appear to solve it.  It's to do with aligning the tail =
wheel cables so that they don't pull down on the rudder cables and thus =
wear on the fuselage slot when tension is applied. I was thinking of =
doing without the tail wheel cables entirely and just allowing it to =
castor by steering using differential braking on the main disks only. =
Does anyone flying have experience with this approach? Is there an =
airspeed where the rudder becomes ineffective before which time the tail =
wheel must be on the ground to allow directional control. Would the =
beast nose over if the mains were used instead? Are the KR legs wide =
enough apart for differential braking to be effective? What about =
redesigning the lower rudder hinge horns so that they have a leg that =
protrudes down to pick up the tail wheel horns?

John

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:33:21 -0500
To: "John and Janet Martindale" <johnjane@chc.net.au>,
	"KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "Daniel Heath" <DanRH@att.net>
Subject: Re: KR> Rudder/brake effectiveness
Message-ID: <000b01c17559$8dcdd2e0$492d5d0c@scana.com>

Most KRs that I have seen are very similar in this regard.  I have seen few
that deviate from this type of connection.  Mine had this type of connection
and I never noticed the problem that you are concerned about.  I did put
tension springs between the rudder cable and the tail wheel horn.  We have
set the new KR up in a very similar manner.

In regard to the other questions, differential braking is sufficient for
steering.  I am not sure that rudder alone would be as effective as you
would like.  During normal taxiing, I don't think that it would nose over if
the brakes were used for steering.  At the gathering this year, one very
talented gentleman, landed and parked his KR1 on the tarmac with the tail
wheel never touching the ground.  I assume that he must have done much of
the steering with the rudder and main brakes.  It was quite a show and an
excellent demonstration of how well the KR behaves in the hands and feet of
a skilled pilot.

Daniel R. Heath

WWW.EAA242.ORG
www.JerryMahurin.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "John and Janet Martindale" <johnjane@chc.net.au>
To: "KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 7:36 PM
Subject: KR> Rudder/brake effectiveness

Hi again folks

I have a chronic problem that I've been putting off and off hoping that
something would appear to solve it.  It's to do with aligning the tail wheel
cables so that they don't pull down on the rudder cables and thus wear on
the fuselage slot when tension is applied. I was thinking of doing without
the tail wheel cables entirely and just allowing it to castor by steering
using differential braking on the main disks only. Does anyone flying have
experience with this approach? Is there an airspeed where the rudder becomes
ineffective before which time the tail wheel must be on the ground to allow
directional control. Would the beast nose over if the mains were used
instead? Are the KR legs wide enough apart for differential braking to be
effective? What about redesigning the lower rudder hinge horns so that they
have a leg that protrudes down to pick up the tail wheel horns?

John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:53:05 -0800
To: KR- Net <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: Jim Morehead <kr2jm@d-web.com>
Subject: Control Stops
Message-ID: <B825B931.BF2%kr2jm@d-web.com>

Hi Netters,
    Hope everyone had a great Thanksgivings.  Where do you place the control
stops on the rudder?  Should it be at the rudder peddles or at the rudder
control horn? Also where should the stops be for the elevator and Ailerons?

Thanks,
Jim Morehead
Cameron Park, CA

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 06:32:00 -0600
To: KR- Net <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: larry flesner <flesner@midwest.net>
Subject: Re: KR> Control Stops
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20011125063200.0086d100@pop3.norton.antivirus>

> Where do you place the control
>stops on the rudder?  Should it be at the rudder peddles or at the rudder
>control horn? Also where should the stops be for the elevator and Ailerons?
>>Jim Morehead
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

Jim,

Your stops should be at the rudder peddles and at the stick 
assy for ailerons and elevator if at all possible.  This
keeps you for putting strain on the control system, i.e.,
cables, control horns, pulleys, or control surfaces at full
deflection.  The rudder is probably the control that will
get full travel with strain more than the other two. Use
a piece of channel with a bolt as a stop or mount a stop
block somewhere.  If it's not adjustable, make sure you
have enough travel before making it permanent. 

Larry Flesner

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:20:34 -0500
To: kr2jm@d-web.com
From: virgnvs@juno.com
Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: KR> Control Stops
Message-ID: <20011125.152848.-272681.3.virgnvs@juno.com>

        At the input control, Virg

On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:53:05 -0800 Jim Morehead <kr2jm@d-web.com> writes:
> Hi Netters,
>     Hope everyone had a great Thanksgivings.  Where do you place the 
> control
> stops on the rudder?  Should it be at the rudder peddles or at the 
> rudder
> control horn? Also where should the stops be for the elevator and 
> Ailerons?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim Morehead
> Cameron Park, CA
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
> 
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
> 
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
> AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other 
> system!
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:19:22 +1100
To: "KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "John and Janet Martindale" <johnjane@chc.net.au>
Subject: Responses
Message-ID: <006b01c17592$5a90d240$6b236e40@m1g0x7>

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Friends

Boy, I did not expect such a huge and favourable response to my pictures =
both on the net and privately....the pictures manage to hide a multitude =
of errors. Thanks everyone. I don't know how Mark L copes....he must get =
hundreds!!! The power of media.  Anyhow, to answer where possible:

Oscar. It's yet to fly although the engine has run on the bench with a =
test club. It was rich everywhere at that time. I hope to run it over =
the next month or so in the aircraft and will post the results, max =
static, jet sizes etc. You are right, there are still things to be =
connected.

Adrian. The throttle control will be supported by a bracket bolted to =
the oil pressure plate.

Rod. The beauty of Mark's prop hub is that it extends the prop thus =
allowing a better visual and air flow from cowl to spinner. Mine came =
from WW and is somewhat stumpy which didn't matter since the front =
starter determines the lines anyhow. The rear starter arrangement avoids =
all this. There are a variety of spinners and bulkheads listed at =
Aircraft Spruce and Great Plains. I think WW suggests 10" diameter is =
good for a Warp Prop. The jets are easily changeable, one of the =
beauties of the Weber DCOE. They're all accessible from the top under =
what's known as the Mickey Mouse cover. Don't think about redrilling em, =
just borrow a few from a carb place and swap them around until you're =
happy (literally a thirty second job). Is Mary Mark's wife?

Tim. Yes, the flaps are built according to the principles detailed in =
the plans. However, they are hinged about 2 " closer to the rear of the =
stub rear spar. The Diehl fixed undercarriage allows this because it =
stands higher than the standard retracts given in the plans. Bigger =
tyres would give even more clearance. Another benefit is that it =
increases the height of the spinner allowing a bigger prop. If I were =
doing it again, I would go for a straight spar bent in the fuse centre =
instead of at the stubs to give dihedral. Then you could have longer =
flaps at the expense of shorter ailerons...but this is major change =
stuff. My understanding of the stock design is that it gives a more nose =
down attitude in approach and some drag to slow down with but not a lot =
of extra lift, viz., not much difference in stall speed.

Phil. Credit for the site is entirely due to Mark. It's his site. I just =
sent him the photos and text and he did the rest. Everybody is welcome =
to use the canopy idea if they want...its not "mine" and was originally =
suggested in the archives some time back after Mark expressed a little =
concern about hinges being more inboard as per his site. Folks, I can't =
recommend the archives enough to newcomers.

Ross. The spinner is chromed aluminium...no polish necessary. It does =
add weight and there is some question about the chrome delaminating due =
to corrosion in the longer term. I'm told aluminium will polish pretty =
well if you use enough Silvo and elbow grease. Whilst on chrome, if =
you're thinking about chrome exhausts, make sure the preparation layer =
does not include copper (it normally does) otherwise the heat will blue =
it. The pipes will probably be noisy. If excessive, I'll go a muffler in =
future.

Darren. The canopy is as braced as it can be with the Bambi horns at =
each side and has very little tendency to twist. Inside the horns is a =
piece of 1" angle aluminium about 18 " long that is bolted to the lower =
canopy frame member. The hinge bolt goes through this as do the strut =
attach balls. The wind partially closed the canopy as I photographed it =
because the struts were decompressed. They are Stabilo Lift-o-mats about =
7" long and normally gassed to 150 Kn. I got them reduced to 50Kn each =
at a restrutting place but may need to go up to about 80Kn. As Mark said =
full strength puts your canopy in orbit and strains the hinge.=20

Erik. The rear of the harmonic balancer on the Corvair is 6 1/4"  =
forward of the firewall. It would normally be closer but the aircraft is =
heavier in the tail due to a layer of resin and finishing tissue around =
the fuselage, aluminium fuel tanks, wing cells sealed inside with glass =
and resin, pushrods and balance arm installed for the elevator. Empty =
weight is about 310 kg. I had the same concerns about the shallow angles =
on the bottom of the mount but even so the vertical distance between the =
tray and the lower mounts is about 5". Effectively the mount is =
operating like a bar of that thickness with a centre of compression =
going diagonally through it. Even so, I reinforced the relevant tube =
welds with 4130 plate gussets. Getting enough room on top for the =
starter/carb etc. without compromising the bottom was a real headache. I =
finished up with the thrust centreline 2 1/4" below a line between the =
upper longeron surfaces. I think others with a KR2 have something =
similiar. I think Mark Jones has the best mount design around at the =
moment...done on a napkin by WW I understand.

Hope the above helps. Thanks again Mark

Cheers John

 =20

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 08:47:38 -0600
To: John and Janet Martindale <johnjane@chc.net.au>,
   CorvAIRCRAFT <corvaircraft@usm.edu>
From: Mark Jones <flykr2s@execpc.com>
CC: KRnet <krnet@mailinglists.org>
Subject: Re: KR> Responses
Message-ID: <3C010488.3DE1E588@execpc.com>

John,
What an exceptional job on your plane. An inspiration for all of us!!! On your comment below. The napkin drawing was a joint effort between William Wynne and Mark Langford at dinner during the Corvair College last Spring. I am totally satisfied with the design as no mods had to be made to fit my firewall. Thanks guys, an excellent job you did!!!
Mark Jones

John and Janet Martindale wrote:

I think Mark Jones has the best mount design around at the moment...done on a napkin by WW I understand.

--
Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI   USA
E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com
Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 07:40:10 -0600
To: "KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "Mark Langford" <langford@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Dr. Dean's fuselage
Message-ID: <003301c175b6$b47d4210$7600a8c0@athlon600>

Some of you folks may remember Dr. Dean's fuselage that created quite a stir
when he unveiled it to the KRworld at the Columbia "get-together".  Several
folks have imitated it, and now here's a builder who's not only run with the
ball, but documented it quite well, at
http://www.deciudades.com/eduardobarros_kr2/fuselaje.htm .  I'm not saying
that this is the way to build a KR fuselage, and I'm not even sure that Dr.
Dean would tell you that it's the way to go either, considering the work
involved with the composite skin.   Anybody care to translate a short
message that he sent to me from Spanish to English?  I tried Babelfish, but
I still don't know what he was trying to say.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:05:23 +0200
To: <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "Serge VIDAL" <svidal@icon.co.za>
Subject: Bendix King KX99
Message-ID: <00c701c175b6$f25a8200$c504a8c0@sergevateint>

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I have a VHF/VOR transceiver, Bendix King KX99. I want to power it from =
the aircraft battery. I haven't got the manual, nor the recharging base =
that normally comes with it. If anybody knows that thing well:

1 - Is it true that it is not a good idea to power it from the "CHRG"  =
socket at the top, and if yes, why?
2 - If  I need to power it from the bottom of the battery:
    The battery has got 4 contacts at the bottom, from left to right, =
negative-negative-positive-negative.
    Which ones must I connect to the aircraft battery?
    And what are the others for?

Serge VIDAL
KR2 ZS-WEC
Johannesburg, South Africa

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:02:46 EST
To: krnet@mailinglists.org
From: Flymaca711689@cs.com
Subject: Fwd: more photos
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Billy,  it's at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/bmcfarland/ .  If you want=20=
to write any text for it, edit the enclosed file and I'll put it in there, o=
r you can leave it like it is and tell the KRnet folks about it.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Flymaca711689@cs.com=20
  To: langford@hiwaay.net=20
  Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:44 PM
  Subject: more photos

  I sent a compressed file let me now if you received them. I like your new=20=
cowling very nice. I like to be posted on the list of flying krs It took lot=
 of work to get there.      =20
  or on somebody's web site all sends some more later=20

  thanks Billy mcfarland=20

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Billy,&nbsp; it's at <A   href=3D"http://ho=
me.hiwaay.net/~langford/bmcfarland/">http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/bmcfar=
land/</A>&nbsp;.&nbsp;=20
If you want to write any text for it, edit the enclosed file and I'll put it=
 in=20
there, or you can leave it like it is and tell the KRnet folks about=20
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama<BR><A   href=3D"mailto:langford@=
hiwaay.net">mailto:langford@hiwaay.net</A><BR>see KR2S=20
N56ML at <A   href=3D"http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford">http://home.hiwaay.n=
et/~langford</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE  >
  <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV    ><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DFlymaca711689@cs.com     href=3D"mailto:Flymaca711689@cs.com">F=
lymaca711689@cs.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dlangford@hiwaay.net     href=3D"mailto:langford=
@hiwaay.net">langford@hiwaay.net</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:44=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV><B>Subject:</B> more photos</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>I sent a compre=
ssed=20
  file let me now if you received them. I like your new cowling very nice. I=
=20
  like to be posted on the list of flying krs It took lot of work to get the=
re.=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>or on somebody's web site all sends som=
e=20
  more later <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>thanks Billy mcfarland</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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<TITLE>Billy McFarland's KR2</title>
<p>
<HR><center><h3>Billy McFarland's KR2</H3>
<p>
updated November 20th, 2001
<p>
</center>

<p>=20
<p>
<IMG SRC=3D"http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/bmcfarland/bmcfarland0.jpg"> <b=
r>

<p>
<p>
<IMG SRC=3D"http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/bmcfarland/bmcfarland1.jpg"> <b=
r>

=20
<p>=20
<p>
<IMG SRC=3D"http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/bmcfarland/bmcfarland2.jpg"> <b=
r>

<p>=20
<p>
<IMG SRC=3D"http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/bmcfarland/bmcfarland4.jpg"> <b=
r>

<p>=20
<p>
<IMG SRC=3D"http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/bmcfarland/bmcfarland5.jpg"> <b=
r>

<p>=20
<p>
<IMG SRC=3D"http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/bmcfarland/bmcfarland6.jpg"> <b=
r>

<p>=20
<p>

Email Billy at  <A HREF=3D"mailto:Flymaca711689@cs.com=20
">Flymaca711689@cs.com </A>. =20

<p>

 <br>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:25:53 -0500
To: "KRnet \(E-mail\)" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: <bob@flyboybob.com>
Subject: Battery
Message-ID: <000201c175ef$6189f830$040c0b0a@cheryl>

Netters,

Ross Youngblood asked "I wanted to get a survey of what folks with starters
are using for batteries".

I have installed a Harley motorcycle battery because I figured they would be
available at Wal-Mart forever.  I have also installed a auxiliary power plug
to make it easy to jump start when the battery is low.  This also provides
the ability to have a couple of 800Amp Die-Hards on a cart as backup to the
onboard battery during the testing phase.

Ross, after you solve all of your teething problems you can put an amp meter
on your comp-u-fire and know what the current draw is.  In addition, you can
put an amp meter on the battery lead of the alternator and determine what
the output of your alternator is.  It is much easier to do all this if your
can eliminate power as a problem in the beginning.  During this phase of
your testing you need to get down to single problems so that you can solve
them one at a time.  It's really difficult to figure out what's going on
when you might be fighting mixture setting, fuel pressure, ignition timing
and battery voltage problems at the same time.

Take steps to separate the problems and then they will be easier to solve.
What I mean is if you add two well charged die-hards to the battery buss you
can focus on the fuel and or ignition problems as separate issues.  With the
fuel filter that you have and the gascolator, I suspect that you don't have
sufficient fuel pressure to run the Ellison without a fuel pump.  The fuel
filter causes resistance in the line to fuel flow so you might find that you
need a fuel pump.  But using the fuel pump  adds to the current required
from the battery.  You can see why I suggest that you add overkill to the
power system so that you can get reliability out of the fuel and ignition
systems.  That will let you measure the electrical requirements of your KR
as built.  You might find that your alternator doesn't have sufficient
output to run your existing systems.  You mentioned several posts ago that
you were thinking of getting a fuel pressure gage.  That would be an
excellent idea.  You could then have more data to base your decisions on.
One thing that always needs to be understood is the resistance of the fuel
filter.  Over time doing it's job the fuel filter clogs up and your gravity
fuel pressure will decrease.  Likewise, as your fuel level drops your
gravity fuel pressure will decrease.

Ross my point is measure everything and eliminate as many variables as you
can.  Next do what the data tells you.  That's the quickest way to a stable
engine installation.  Good luck.

Regards,

Bob Lee
_____________________________________
e-mail:   mailto:bob@flyboybob.com
web site: http://flyboybob.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:47:56 -0700
To: bob@flyboybob.com, KRnet \(E-mail\) <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: Ross Youngblood <rossy65@home.com>
Subject: Re: KR> Battery
Message-Id: <20011125204144.YPAL25332.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a>

Bob,
  Thanks for the email..... Your advice re: the scientific method is sound.
I have a fluke DVM, and plan to do the experiments you suggest.  However
my initial work yesterday suggests that my current alternator is not going to put
out enough current to make the Compu-Fire happy.  I still need to get some
hard numbers however.
  -- Ross
11/25/2001 1:25:53 PM, <bob@flyboybob.com> wrote:

>Netters,
>
>Ross Youngblood asked "I wanted to get a survey of what folks with starters
>are using for batteries".
>
>I have installed a Harley motorcycle battery because I figured they would be
>available at Wal-Mart forever.  I have also installed a auxiliary power plug
>to make it easy to jump start when the battery is low.  This also provides
>the ability to have a couple of 800Amp Die-Hards on a cart as backup to the
>onboard battery during the testing phase.
>
>Ross, after you solve all of your teething problems you can put an amp meter
>on your comp-u-fire and know what the current draw is.  In addition, you can
>put an amp meter on the battery lead of the alternator and determine what
>the output of your alternator is.  It is much easier to do all this if your
>can eliminate power as a problem in the beginning.  During this phase of
>your testing you need to get down to single problems so that you can solve
>them one at a time.  It's really difficult to figure out what's going on
>when you might be fighting mixture setting, fuel pressure, ignition timing
>and battery voltage problems at the same time.
>
>Take steps to separate the problems and then they will be easier to solve.
>What I mean is if you add two well charged die-hards to the battery buss you
>can focus on the fuel and or ignition problems as separate issues.  With the
>fuel filter that you have and the gascolator, I suspect that you don't have
>sufficient fuel pressure to run the Ellison without a fuel pump.  The fuel
>filter causes resistance in the line to fuel flow so you might find that you
>need a fuel pump.  But using the fuel pump  adds to the current required
>from the battery.  You can see why I suggest that you add overkill to the
>power system so that you can get reliability out of the fuel and ignition
>systems.  That will let you measure the electrical requirements of your KR
>as built.  You might find that your alternator doesn't have sufficient
>output to run your existing systems.  You mentioned several posts ago that
>you were thinking of getting a fuel pressure gage.  That would be an
>excellent idea.  You could then have more data to base your decisions on.
>One thing that always needs to be understood is the resistance of the fuel
>filter.  Over time doing it's job the fuel filter clogs up and your gravity
>fuel pressure will decrease.  Likewise, as your fuel level drops your
>gravity fuel pressure will decrease.
>
>Ross my point is measure everything and eliminate as many variables as you
>can.  Next do what the data tells you.  That's the quickest way to a stable
>engine installation.  Good luck.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob Lee
>_____________________________________
>e-mail:   mailto:bob@flyboybob.com
>web site: http://flyboybob.com
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
>
>To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
>For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
>See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
>AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!
>
>

Ross Youngblood
rossy65@home.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:51:39 -0600
To: "KRnet" <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: "Mark Langford" <langford@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: KR> Battery
Message-ID: <000901c175f2$fb26e450$7600a8c0@athlon600>

Bob Lee wrote:

>With the
> fuel filter that you have and the gascolator, I suspect that you don't
have
> sufficient fuel pressure to run the Ellison without a fuel pump.

I think you're absolutely right about that.  Fuel injection filters
typically have about 35-75 psi behind them, and filter really small
particles out, and usually produce quite a pressure drop in the process.
They can also clog very quickly because of the fine filter size.   One tank
of rusty fuel stopped my wife's Jetta (RIP) a mile from the gas station,
even though the filter was only a month old!  I meant to mention this after
reading Ross's post, but forgot before I got around to it...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:03:03 -0700
To: Mark Langford <langford@hiwaay.net>, KRnet <krnet@mailinglists.org>
From: Ross Youngblood <rossy65@home.com>
Subject: Fuel Head Pressure
Message-Id: <20011125215652.OES878.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a>

Bob & Mark,
   You may have a valid point regarding fuel restriction due to the filter.
Filter Replacement is somthing I had planned to do at 50 or 100 hour
intervals.  Ellison specifies a 70 micron or better filter for the fuel going
to the carb.  I'm not actually sure if the automotive type I have chosen
meets that requirement.  I chose it primarily for it's large surface area and
threaded fittings at either end.   It is about the diameter of a coffee mug
and about 2 coffee mugs high.  It could even be for a deisel engine 
application.  Now that you mention it, I need to track this down and
put it into the POH for my KR.

Looks like the only to demonstrate that I don't have a fuel pressure
issue is to place a pressure instrument at the output of the gascolator
and run the engine loaded up to 2400 RPM where my trouble begins
to see what happnes.

   The fuel flow tests that Frank Ross helped me do earlier this year
yielded a flow rate of .25gal/min from the fuel pumped from the wing
tanks, and .2 gal/min from the header tank.  I have a formula for
calculating minimum fuel flow requirements that is
   HP * .55  * 1.5   to yield pounds/hour required for gravity feed
   HP * .55  * 1.25 to yield pounds/hour for fuel pump feed.

I did the calculations for my 1835cc engine which GPASC indicates
is rated at 66HP.   I got  .126gal/min required for fuel pump feed,
and .152gal/min for gravity feed.   I could be off in my calculations,
but the fuel flow tests through the filter don't raise any red flags.

Granted, I can't guarentee that this rate provides a 1/2psi pressure
at the inlet to the Ellison at full throttle, but I think if I thought about
it I could extrapolate, and come up with somtihg... I think it will be
easier to put a "T" fitting on the gascolator, and get a pressure
gauge in to get some hard numbers.

What can we say about fuel consumption at 4000 RPM at no
load vs 2500RPM loaded?   My engine appears to run OK up
to and possibly beyond 4000RPM without a prop, and my earlier
EGT readings unloaded were 900, compared to my 1150 readings
after leaning out the idle problem.   I would expect much higher
EGT readings (1300) if I was way lean due to a fuel starvation
problem.

At 2000 RPM, my EGT's are around 1100-1090, I do have one datapoint
at 1200 at 2000 RPM where most of my data has been taken.  Most of this
data was taken during rich warm ups to temp before starting to work on
the idle mixture rich issue.   I started to play with full rich at 2500 rpm,
but didn't indicate which of my datapoints were for this as I switched from
working on my idle mixture problem to my high end rpm investigation.

11/25/2001 1:51:39 PM, "Mark Langford" <langford@hiwaay.net> wrote:

>Bob Lee wrote:
>
>>With the
>> fuel filter that you have and the gascolator, I suspect that you don't
>have
>> sufficient fuel pressure to run the Ellison without a fuel pump.
>
>I think you're absolutely right about that.  Fuel injection filters
>typically have about 35-75 psi behind them, and filter really small
>particles out, and usually produce quite a pressure drop in the process.
>They can also clog very quickly because of the fine filter size.   One tank
>of rusty fuel stopped my wife's Jetta (RIP) a mile from the gas station,
>even though the filter was only a month old!  I meant to mention this after
>reading Ross's post, but forgot before I got around to it...
>
>Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
>mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
>see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all"
>
>To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
>For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
>See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ .
>AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system!
>
>

Ross Youngblood
rossy65@home.com
 

------------------------------

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