From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 5 Dec 2001 05:31:05 -0000 Issue 335 Date: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:31 PM krnet Digest 5 Dec 2001 05:31:05 -0000 Issue 335 Topics (messages 7907 through 7936): Re: Viruses 7907 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER Re: New owner & member 7908 by: virgnvs.juno.com Re:Re: KR> SHORTEN PROP 7909 by: boyd84.juno.com Kr main gear 7910 by: boyd84.juno.com cable vs tube linkage 7911 by: The Pond Family 7916 by: Oscar Zuniga 7926 by: Ross Youngblood 7927 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 7930 by: Linda Warner Seat belts 7912 by: John Bouyea 7918 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 7919 by: Aripo 7920 by: Philip J. Visconti 7921 by: ROBERT COOPER 7923 by: Daniel Heath 7924 by: Daniel Heath 7925 by: Daniel Heath 7928 by: Ross Youngblood Carbs with rubber diaphragms 7913 by: Peter Johnson Control Stick Arrangements 7914 by: Peter Johnson 7917 by: MARVIN MCCOY 7935 by: John Esch Want to make seat belts? 7915 by: Serge VIDAL kr cable vs tube 7922 by: Flymaca711689.cs.com safety belts 7929 by: Flymaca711689.cs.com 7931 by: Stuart Deal 7932 by: Daniel Heath 7934 by: ROBERT COOPER safety belts, inspections 7933 by: Oscar Zuniga nose gear 7936 by: Oscar Zuniga Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:22:04 -0500 To: "KRNET" , "Eric Evezard" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> Viruses Message-ID: They didn't deliberately do this to you. The virus sent itself to everyone in thier address book. Very few people deliberatly send a virus. It's AUTOMATIC. Don't open stuff from peopleou don't know, and nothing with two file extension. Nothing with *.vbs, exe,com, bat. Even from people you DO KNOW. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Eric Evezard [mailto:bonzabay@netactive.co.za] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 2:16 PM To: KR MAILING LIST Subject: KR> Viruses Hi Netters, Firstly to Dave Christiansen,I think Ross has given the gen.on the Lavond Loynd virus and I cant add to it.Secondly to the delightful couple who sent a blank e mail with an attatchment, (let them remain nameless for now) ---try again.!!!!!! I hope to have some real KR 2 S news later (nearly there) Best Regards , Eric Evezard, South Africa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:25:20 -0500 To: matheson@dodo.com.au From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> New owner & member Message-ID: <20011203.183517.-418931.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Too far foreward, Virg On Mon, 3 Dec 2001 22:06:15 +1100 "Phillip Matheson" writes: > > > > Mark > > I have picked a KR2 unfinished project today.( have not got it > home yet, > and > > can not wait to start building) > > It has 2.5 Lit Vw fuel injection, (if I can find a aftermarket > injection > > computer in Australia) > > I have read all your comments on your web page. > > The fuse and tail are built, Mod canopy and turtle deck > > I would like to move the engine forward up to 6 to 8 inches to > help with > > stability. > > I have been told to change where the engine mounts to the mount, > but would > > it be better to cut the mount near the firewall and extend the > mount ? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Mark Langford > > To: > > Sent: 03 December 2001 15:12 > > Subject: Re: KR> hoaxes > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other > system! > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 00:49:50 GMT To: bob@cringely.com From: boyd84@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re:Re: KR> SHORTEN PROP Message-Id: <20011203.194958.14522.4765@wm12.jersey.juno.com> Want to buy tri gear for Kr or just nose gear. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 00:54:15 GMT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: boyd84@juno.com Subject: Kr main gear Message-Id: <20011203.195428.14522.4770@wm12.jersey.juno.com> Want to buy Kr tri gear or just nose gear. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 23:01:50 -0800 To: krnet From: The Pond Family Subject: cable vs tube linkage Message-ID: <3C0C74DE.E2E6DE7D@rogers.com> Hi Netter What give the best feel for alerion control Linkage or cable? Darren ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 07:40:30 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: cable vs tube linkage Message-ID: Darren wrote: >What give the best feel for alerion control Linkage or cable? I think it would be a tube/bellcrank linkage, hands-down. Cable has slack and various fittings and eyes in the loop, while the tube system should have very little slop... only what you get at clevis pins, rod ends, and the control surface hinges themselves. However... most who have flown KRs will agree that it's a very light touch fingertip-control type of plane. Therefore, using control tubes to get the feel butter-smooth would only make it more of a sensitive control system than it already is... and sometimes just a little bit of friction or slop in there isn't a bad thing. I've flown a stock cable setup KR2 and it was plenty smooth and sensitive. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:59:32 -0700 To: The Pond Family , krnet From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> cable vs tube linkage Message-Id: <20011205015313.UIJQ17345.femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> The Cessna and Mooney I flew I believe were cable... so I don't think I have flown a pushrod aircraft yet. Well if you don't count the 3 minutes I flew an Acroduster biplane. From the RV list, I believe you will get more aileraon control "Feel" difference by sharpening the trailing edge of the aileron itself. I recall that if you have a sharp edge, you get a too brisk aileron control so the solution is to make the edge more round. My KR has not yet flown, so I don't have any in-flight data to provide. -- Regards Ross 12/4/2001 12:01:50 AM, The Pond Family wrote: >Hi Netter >What give the best feel for alerion control Linkage or cable? >Darren > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:56:53 -0500 To: , "The Pond Family" , "krnet" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> cable vs tube linkage Message-ID: Ken Rands ailerons were about 0.75 inches thick, as I remember them. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Ross Youngblood [mailto:rossy65@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:00 PM To: The Pond Family; krnet Subject: Re: KR> cable vs tube linkage The Cessna and Mooney I flew I believe were cable... so I don't think I have flown a pushrod aircraft yet. Well if you don't count the 3 minutes I flew an Acroduster biplane. From the RV list, I believe you will get more aileraon control "Feel" difference by sharpening the trailing edge of the aileron itself. I recall that if you have a sharp edge, you get a too brisk aileron control so the solution is to make the edge more round. My KR has not yet flown, so I don't have any in-flight data to provide. -- Regards Ross 12/4/2001 12:01:50 AM, The Pond Family wrote: >Hi Netter >What give the best feel for alerion control Linkage or cable? >Darren > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:18:05 -0500 (EST) To: rossy65@home.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) Subject: Fwd: Re: KR> cable vs tube linkage Message-ID: <29404-3C0D83DD-1119@storefull-228.iap.bryant.webtv.net> --WebTV-Mail-15292-540 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit If you've flown a Mooney, you've flown a plane with push rod controls. I don't think there is a cable anywhere in a Mooney. John Sickafoose, Naples Fl --WebTV-Mail-15292-540 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-102-9.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.148) by storefull-226.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:53:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by smtpin-102-9.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) id 11F1720E; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:53:29 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: jaslkw@webtv.net Received: from mailinglists.org (server1.mailinglists.org [63.160.175.18]) by smtpin-102-9.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with SMTP id B8C7011E for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 14544 invoked by alias); 5 Dec 2001 01:53:05 -0000 Mailing-List: contact krnet-help@mailinglists.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Delivered-To: mailing list krnet@mailinglists.org Received: (qmail 14535 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 01:53:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:59:32 -0700 To: The Pond Family , krnet From: Ross Youngblood Reply-To: rossy65@home.com X-Mailer: Opera 5.12 build 932 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <20011205015313.UIJQ17345.femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> Subject: Re: KR> cable vs tube linkage The Cessna and Mooney I flew I believe were cable... so I don't think I have flown a pushrod aircraft yet. Well if you don't count the 3 minutes I flew an Acroduster biplane. From the RV list, I believe you will get more aileraon control "Feel" difference by sharpening the trailing edge of the aileron itself. I recall that if you have a sharp edge, you get a too brisk aileron control so the solution is to make the edge more round. My KR has not yet flown, so I don't have any in-flight data to provide. -- Regards Ross 12/4/2001 12:01:50 AM, The Pond Family wrote: >Hi Netter >What give the best feel for alerion control Linkage or cable? >Darren > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! --WebTV-Mail-15292-540-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:10:24 -0800 To: From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR> Seat belts Message-ID: <002901c17c79$99b68fd0$3300a8c0@bou5100> Hello from Hillsboro. Our FSDO has very straightforward guidance on the topic of seatbelts; "They must have tags indicating appropriate use in aircraft." No if's, ands, or butts to this ruling. I fully understood their advise when it came to my Cardinal. But, my neighbor challenged them on his Titan, RV4, and his 2/3 scale P51. Guess what? He "lost" 3 times. Then, his wife porpoised a landing in the Titan. When she came to a stop (it was totaled), she unclipped and walked away. Just as easily, my argument for their requirements vanished. Guess what standard I'm upgrading the belts in my KR2 to include? John Bouyea KR2 - N5391M/ in rebuild KR2 - on the gear KR2S - boat stage http://www.bouyea.net john@bouyea.net > > Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:29:38 -0800 > To: , "The Pond Family" > From: "Peter Johnson" > Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts > Message-ID: <001001c17b70$3216e780$2209eccf@peter> > > Hi Darren. What I'm about to say is not applicable to car seatbelt > ARRANGEMENTS, but your question has prompted me to discuss the USE of car > seatbelts in airplanes. It's a topic that has come up in various > inspections that I've done over the years. > <> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:52:08 -0500 To: "KRNET" , "John Bouyea" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> Seat belts Message-ID: Nice thinking. BTW, I think the anchorages could use some attention to detail too! I've used Hooker Harness for a custom aircraft belt vendor for years and been pleased with the service. Check Sport Aviation. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: John Bouyea [mailto:johnbou@speakeasy.net] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:10 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Seat belts Hello from Hillsboro. Our FSDO has very straightforward guidance on the topic of seatbelts; "They must have tags indicating appropriate use in aircraft." No if's, ands, or butts to this ruling. I fully understood their advise when it came to my Cardinal. But, my neighbor challenged them on his Titan, RV4, and his 2/3 scale P51. Guess what? He "lost" 3 times. Then, his wife porpoised a landing in the Titan. When she came to a stop (it was totaled), she unclipped and walked away. Just as easily, my argument for their requirements vanished. Guess what standard I'm upgrading the belts in my KR2 to include? John Bouyea KR2 - N5391M/ in rebuild KR2 - on the gear KR2S - boat stage http://www.bouyea.net john@bouyea.net > > Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:29:38 -0800 > To: , "The Pond Family" > From: "Peter Johnson" > Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts > Message-ID: <001001c17b70$3216e780$2209eccf@peter> > > Hi Darren. What I'm about to say is not applicable to car seatbelt > ARRANGEMENTS, but your question has prompted me to discuss the USE of car > seatbelts in airplanes. It's a topic that has come up in various > inspections that I've done over the years. > <> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:58:05 +0100 To: "KRnet" From: "Aripo" Subject: Seat belts Message-ID: <000a01c17cdc$9a413aa0$36b41997@aripo> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17CE4.D7F17D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi netters The problem is not only, wich seat belts, but also where you tie these = belts on the plane , the car makers of the world spend much money to = test all the system ( belts + attachments). Here in Italy seat belts are not required on cars builded in the sixties = or before without factory standards tie points. I know that french planes in appearance install car seat belts.... or = not? Sorry for my english I hope that you understand what I mean Franco Negri KR2 I-KRFN =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17CE4.D7F17D80-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500 To: ron.martha@mindspring.com From: "Philip J. Visconti" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org, johnbou@speakeasy.net Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts Message-ID: <20011204.113914.-176325.1.viscan@juno.com> ----__JNP_000_2ceb.1df0.1812 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I guess I should tell you what happened to my friend. (It really happened to a friend, not to me.) But, I have decided against using car belts. He was doing high speed runs down runway to check controls while simulating landing. However, the plane lifted off (about 6 feet) and he tried to get back on runway. There was not enough runway left for brakes to stop it. He ran off runway end and flipped over. The plane ended upside down and he was left hanging from the seat belt. He had 5 point belts. Luckily he was able to reach down and brace himself against the canopy. This is the only thing that prevented him from getting seriously hurt when he released the belt buckle. There was no one around to help him and when belt released, he fell down to canopy. I guess, the only smart thing he did was using the 5 point belts. Phil ----__JNP_000_2ceb.1df0.1812-- ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:13:17 -0500 To: , "krnet" , "John Bouyea" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C17CC5.6FFAE640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a 5 point seatbelt and although I'm nowhere near installing the se= atbelt, I have wondered how I would mount the strap between the lags. I p= lan to have the stick between the legs and I know the stick doesnt interf= er with the operation of the belt but with the installation of the stick,= its cables and linkages, I wont be able to mount it to the fwd spar. Has= anyone else crossed this bridge? =20 Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: RONALD.FREIBERGER Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:58 AM To: KRNET; John Bouyea Subject: RE: KR> Seat belts Nice thinking. BTW, I think the anchorages could use some attention to detail too! I've used Hooker Harness for a custom aircraft belt vendor for years and been pleased with the service. Check Sport Aviation. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: John Bouyea [mailto:johnbou@speakeasy.net] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:10 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Seat belts Hello from Hillsboro. Our FSDO has very straightforward guidance on the topic of seatbelts; "They must have tags indicating appropriate use in aircraft." No if's, ands, or butts to this ruling. I fully understood their advise when it came to my Cardinal. But, my neighbor challenged them on his Titan, RV4, and his 2/3 scale P51. Guess what? He "lost" 3 times. Then, his wife porpoised a landing in the Tita= n. When she came to a stop (it was totaled), she unclipped and walked away. Just as easily, my argument for their requirements vanished. Guess what standard I'm upgrading the belts in my KR2 to include? John Bouyea KR2 - N5391M/ in rebuild KR2 - on the gear KR2S - boat stage http://www.bouyea.net john@bouyea.net > > Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:29:38 -0800 > To: , "The Pond Family" > From: "Peter Johnson" > Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts > Message-ID: <001001c17b70$3216e780$2209eccf@peter> > > Hi Darren. What I'm about to say is not applicable to car seatbelt > ARRANGEMENTS, but your question has prompted me to discuss the USE of c= ar > seatbelts in airplanes. It's a topic that has come up in various > inspections that I've done over the years. > <> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C17CC5.6FFAE640-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:03:29 -0500 To: "ROBERT COOPER" , , "krnet" , "John Bouyea" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts Message-ID: <001301c17d17$e4b5bd00$7f2c5d0c@scana.com> I think that the only way the "between the legs" attach point could be accomplished is by installing a bracket from under the front spar to under the rear spar. Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT COOPER" To: ; "krnet" ; "John Bouyea" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 1:13 PM Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts I have a 5 point seatbelt and although I'm nowhere near installing the seatbelt, I have wondered how I would mount the strap between the lags. I plan to have the stick between the legs and I know the stick doesnt interfer with the operation of the belt but with the installation of the stick, its cables and linkages, I wont be able to mount it to the fwd spar. Has anyone else crossed this bridge? Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: RONALD.FREIBERGER Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:58 AM To: KRNET; John Bouyea Subject: RE: KR> Seat belts Nice thinking. BTW, I think the anchorages could use some attention to detail too! I've used Hooker Harness for a custom aircraft belt vendor for years and been pleased with the service. Check Sport Aviation. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: John Bouyea [mailto:johnbou@speakeasy.net] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:10 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Seat belts Hello from Hillsboro. Our FSDO has very straightforward guidance on the topic of seatbelts; "They must have tags indicating appropriate use in aircraft." No if's, ands, or butts to this ruling. I fully understood their advise when it came to my Cardinal. But, my neighbor challenged them on his Titan, RV4, and his 2/3 scale P51. Guess what? He "lost" 3 times. Then, his wife porpoised a landing in the Titan. When she came to a stop (it was totaled), she unclipped and walked away. Just as easily, my argument for their requirements vanished. Guess what standard I'm upgrading the belts in my KR2 to include? John Bouyea KR2 - N5391M/ in rebuild KR2 - on the gear KR2S - boat stage http://www.bouyea.net john@bouyea.net > > Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:29:38 -0800 > To: , "The Pond Family" > From: "Peter Johnson" > Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts > Message-ID: <001001c17b70$3216e780$2209eccf@peter> > > Hi Darren. What I'm about to say is not applicable to car seatbelt > ARRANGEMENTS, but your question has prompted me to discuss the USE of car > seatbelts in airplanes. It's a topic that has come up in various > inspections that I've done over the years. > <> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:04:20 -0500 To: , "Philip J. Visconti" From: "Daniel Heath" Cc: , Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts Message-ID: <001e01c17d18$0275b480$7f2c5d0c@scana.com> So much for high speed taxi tests also. Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip J. Visconti" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:39 AM Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts > Well, I guess I should tell you what happened to my friend. (It really > happened to a friend, not to me.) But, I have decided against using car > belts. > He was doing high speed runs down runway to check controls while > simulating landing. However, the plane lifted off (about 6 feet) and he > tried to get back on runway. There was not enough runway left for brakes > to stop it. He ran off runway end and flipped over. The plane ended > upside down and he was left hanging from the seat belt. He had 5 point > belts. Luckily he was able to reach down and brace himself against the > canopy. This is the only thing that prevented him from getting seriously > hurt when he released the belt buckle. There was no one around to help > him and when belt released, he fell down to canopy. I guess, the only > smart thing he did was using the 5 point belts. > > Phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:08:37 -0500 To: "Aripo" , "KRnet" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts Message-ID: <002901c17d18$9b8004f0$7f2c5d0c@scana.com> Unless you build the shoulder harness attach point into the structure of the fuselage, I don't thing there is any point that is good. Jerry and I have built it into the rear shelf and re-re-enforced it with fiberglass. I think we are only fooling ourselves to think that this will hold up in any kind of a forward impact. As far as the lap belt, no problem installing them on the aft spar. I used belts, four point, from AS last time and they were great. Expensive, but very good. Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aripo" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:58 AM Subject: KR> Seat belts Hi netters The problem is not only, wich seat belts, but also where you tie these belts on the plane , the car makers of the world spend much money to test all the system ( belts + attachments). Here in Italy seat belts are not required on cars builded in the sixties or before without factory standards tie points. I know that french planes in appearance install car seat belts.... or not? Sorry for my english I hope that you understand what I mean Franco Negri KR2 I-KRFN ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:04:46 -0700 To: John Bouyea , krnet@mailinglists.org From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts Message-Id: <20011205015827.WFHX23337.femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx239334-a> I too thought a bit about using race car belts... then JC Whitney belts. I went with "TSO'd" belts from Aircraft Spruce, and it looks like I'd have not trouble with the DAR in Hillsboro. -- Ross 12/3/2001 9:10:24 PM, "John Bouyea" wrote: >Hello from Hillsboro. > >Our FSDO has very straightforward guidance on the topic of seatbelts; >"They must have tags indicating appropriate use in aircraft." No if's, >ands, or butts to this ruling. > >I fully understood their advise when it came to my Cardinal. But, my >neighbor challenged them on his Titan, RV4, and his 2/3 scale P51. Guess >what? He "lost" 3 times. Then, his wife porpoised a landing in the Titan. >When she came to a stop (it was totaled), she unclipped and walked away. >Just as easily, my argument for their requirements vanished. Guess what >standard I'm upgrading the belts in my KR2 to include? > >John Bouyea >KR2 - N5391M/ in rebuild >KR2 - on the gear >KR2S - boat stage >http://www.bouyea.net >john@bouyea.net > >> >> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:29:38 -0800 >> To: , "The Pond Family" >> From: "Peter Johnson" >> Subject: Re: KR> Seat belts >> Message-ID: <001001c17b70$3216e780$2209eccf@peter> >> >> Hi Darren. What I'm about to say is not applicable to car seatbelt >> ARRANGEMENTS, but your question has prompted me to discuss the USE of car >> seatbelts in airplanes. It's a topic that has come up in various >> inspections that I've done over the years. >> > ><> > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . >AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! > > Ross Youngblood rossy65@home.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:55:30 -0800 To: From: "Peter Johnson" Subject: Carbs with rubber diaphragms Message-ID: <003601c17c9d$1dc2cd20$4fa5e2d1@peter> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C17C55.FDAB2240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A couple of times now I've heard people mention concerns about using = constant velocity, or altitude compensating carbs, the ones with the = throttle butterfly AND self-adjusting barrel, the concern being that in = the event of a backfire the diaphragms would be blown out. After finally finishing my effort to determe the proper size carb for an = engine in our application (36 mm), I went to a = motorcycle/snowmachine/outboard motor wrecking yard and looked at two or = three different models of Mikuni and Keihen carbs off of four stroke = motorcycles. I took these carbs apart just to see what was inside and = what I found would not support concerns about backfires. The Mikuni carbs had rubber diaphragms located above the barrel. These = diaphragms were so removed from the carb throat by distance and = clearances that it would take one heck of a long lasting BANG! for any = damage to occur to them. =20 The Keihens that I looked at had no rubber diaphragms in them at all. =20 I have a couple of mid 70's Stombergs, the ones with the oil filled = 'airpot' on top (I can't find them to take a look), but from what I = remember, the barrels in them seperated the rubber diaphragm in the = airpot from the carb throat too. I hope the above info is of help to someone. If anyone would like to = discuss any of the above, please feel free to drop me a note. For what it's worth, I ended up purchasing a 36 mm Keihen carb off of a = mid '80's Honda for $75 CDN. The shop has some left if anyone is = interested. =20 mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C17C55.FDAB2240-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 00:13:59 -0800 To: From: "Peter Johnson" Subject: Control Stick Arrangements Message-ID: <003701c17c9d$20b61c80$4fa5e2d1@peter> ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C17C58.92645620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In following the discussion on stick locations and arrangements, = sometime ago I posted a note describing how I intended to setup an = center stick arrangement with an 'L' coming off the top. It was my = intent to put this 'L' on a pip-pin so it could be swung from one side = of the cockpit to the other. I set the control stick assembly in place and taped an 'L' in place on = top just to play. My 9 year old godson came over for a visit this past = weekend and we climbed into the cockpit to see how the stick arrangement = worked. I gotta tell ya, this boy is amazing! While sitting on the fabric seat, = unable to see below it, and after listening to me discuss my thinking = about the 'L' on top of the stick (so he could fly the plane too), and = the pro's and con's of single vs dual sticks, he looked down and around = and pondered things for a moment then asked me why I didn't run two = control sticks DOWN and OUT from the center mount, and have them come up = between our legs?! He's only 9 years old!! What a boy! =20 Ok, enough boasting... I looked at him, he looked at me, we both got up = (and bumped the 'L' on the stick!), started putzing, and in about 30 = minutes had his idea roughed out and working. I am going to go with his = idea! To discribe his idea is hardly worth it, if you sit down and = think about it for a moment you will understand how we set it up. The = beauty of this is that there is only one control stick mount so setup = will be easier, the co-jo's stick can be removed, and we won't bump = anything while getting in and out of the plane. The attaching of the two sticks to the center control will a gusset = plate to accomodate the slightly increased loads that will be imposed = due to the increased moment. The vertical discplacement of the stick = that occurs while moving the it sideways is not even noticeable. Hope this is of help to someone. Again, if anyone is interested in = discussing this further, please drop me a line. mailto:pjohnson@voyageur.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C17C58.92645620-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 06:37:31 -0800 To: Peter Johnson From: MARVIN MCCOY CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Control Stick Arrangements Message-ID: <3C0CDFAB.2B0FF9C8@worldnet.att.net> Peter: I would be interested in looking at a drawing of your idea. Thanks Marvin McCoy Peter Johnson wrote: > > > asked me why I didn't run two control sticks DOWN and OUT from the center mount, and have them come up between our legs?! > > I am going to go with his idea! To discribe his idea is hardly worth it, if you sit down and think about it for a moment you will understand how we set it up. The beauty of this is that there is only one control stick mount so setup will be easier, the co-jo's stick can be removed, and we won't bump anything while getting in and out of the plane. > > The attaching of the two sticks to the center control will a gusset plate to accomodate the slightly increased loads that will be imposed due to the increased moment. The vertical discplacement of the stick that occurs while moving the it sideways is not even noticeable. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:08:33 -0800 To: mr.marvin@worldnet.att.net From: John Esch CC: Peter Johnson , krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Control Stick Arrangements Message-ID: <3C0DABD1.1F1354F9@earthlink.net> I would also be interested in the design of the stick arrangement. John F. Esch Independence, OR MARVIN MCCOY wrote: > Peter: > I would be interested in looking at a drawing of your idea. > Thanks > Marvin McCoy > > Peter Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > asked me why I didn't run two control sticks DOWN and OUT from the > center mount, and have them come up between our legs?! > > > > I am going to go with his idea! To discribe his idea is hardly worth it, if you sit down and think about it for a moment you will understand how we set it up. The beauty of this is that there is only one control stick mount so setup will be easier, the co-jo's stick can be removed, and we won't bump anything while getting in and out of the plane. > > > > The attaching of the two sticks to the center control will a gusset plate to accomodate the slightly increased loads that will be imposed due to the increased moment. The vertical discplacement of the stick that occurs while moving the it sideways is not even noticeable. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , or "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . > AOL and Compuserve do NOT pass KRNet email, so use some other system! -- John F. Esch KR-2S Taxiway Bonanza, Independence, OR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:44:55 +0200 To: From: "Serge VIDAL" Subject: Want to make seat belts? Message-ID: <003401c17c8f$5d28b140$c504a8c0@sergevateint> ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C17C9F.F26F28A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The first thing I upgraded on the KR2 I bought one year ago was the seat = belts. They were 4 points, but long enough for me. They had an = automotive buckle, which was bulky, if not heavy. I the searched (in vain) for a 5-point, parachute type buckle. I then = decided to use an airliner-type seat belt buckle, and build a 4-point = harness out of it.The result is much better than what you find in your = average Cessna or Piper. Yet, it is not perfect, since the buckle does = not release the shoulder straps, and it might be difficult to get out=20 I had my belts sewn by a local aircraft upholstery shop (which made a = mess, and asked me more money, after having done the job, if I wanted a = certificate for aircraft use!). But you can actually make your belts without sewing anything, just using = straps and buckles. Securing the straps with proper buckles, if done = properly, is safe. It is an approved mehod for retrofitting new seat = belts to vintage aircraft. If you want, or need to, make them yourself, what you need for each belt = is: 1 - A quick release buckle (such as an airliner buckle: reliable, = suitable for the environment, fairly cheap) 2 - 4 adjustment buckles (the ones you can tighten at will; various = designs exist, but they all have one fixed and one mobile part) 3 - 8 to 10 locking buckles (these are used to secure the ends of the = straps, and replace the sewing) 4 - 6 to 8 meters of seat belt strap 5 - 4 anchor points You can find most of that stuff in specialized shops or catalogues that = deal with harnesses in general, such as mountaineering equipment = dealers. E-mail me direct for tips. Serge VIDAL KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C17C9F.F26F28A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:00:31 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Flymaca711689@cs.com Subject: kr cable vs tube Message-ID: --part1_a0.1e7d2342.293ea17f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IM flying mine and using tube and bellcrank very smooth all so It has duel sticks with push rod from the stick to bellcrank cables to elevator. I have no pitch problems I think pitch problem with the old Kr like mine are all do to aft cg if the cg is to forward sweet aircraft It is horrible In turbulence all live with It If you go to site that mark put my plane In you will see are s10 rans now that's pitch sensitive neutral stability . you can make the bellcrank system I used mark jones arrangement and just made bellcranks on it instead of cable rollers he using. push rods i made using parts from rans . mac --part1_a0.1e7d2342.293ea17f_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:14:56 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Flymaca711689@cs.com Subject: safety belts Message-ID: <14d.5290f5a.293edd20@cs.com> --part1_14d.5290f5a.293edd20_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been trying to address this on my Kr back In April on my test flight on landing on grass my nose gear failed to weak solved that problem. filled and braced. will I just had a lap belt . 13 stitches broken nose crank prop spinner cowling. will I have great planes style y belt IM happy with It but IM with you fiberglassing the shelf just doesn't cut it I like to come up with light wgt roll bar that will serve as attachment as well as some rollover protection. i cant believe no buddy hasn't broken there neck from all hi speed taxi accidents I can weld so I think all come up with something under 10 lb. 18 20 inches at top attach to rear spar with two tubes attach to the floor I looked at RV that had what IM trying to describe. kit plane had some drawlings of roll bars some time back trying to find it for more ideas . my nose gear is on kr net site under billy mcfarland it works .the stock deil unit is to weak in stock form more then one person has found out the hard way like me !!!!!! mac --part1_14d.5290f5a.293edd20_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 17:14:06 +0000 To: Flymaca711689@cs.com From: Stuart Deal CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> safety belts Message-ID: <3C0D045E.C0F87A7@sonic.net> Mac, Sorry to hear about your discomforts. There was a recent issue of "Aviation Safety" that reviewed the safety of the different belts. The odd number points are safer, three and five. Two point (lap) and four point belts cause more internal injuries: when the belt rides up bad things happen. The best five point aviation seat belt is the safest way to go, the belt between your legs keeps the rest in position. Why couldn't it go under the seat to the back spar? Stuart > > I have been trying to address this on my Kr back In April on my test flight > on landing on grass my nose gear failed to weak solved that problem. filled > and braced. will I just had a lap belt . 13 stitches broken nose crank prop > spinner cowling. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:08:18 -0500 To: , From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> safety belts Message-ID: <002501c17d3a$17bb98b0$ae2c5d0c@scana.com> Wow, you sure messed up your plane. What will you attach the roll bar to? Daniel R. Heath WWW.EAA242.ORG See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:14 PM Subject: KR> safety belts > I have been trying to address this on my Kr back In April on my test flight > on landing on grass my nose gear failed to weak solved that problem. filled > and braced. will I just had a lap belt . 13 stitches broken nose crank prop > spinner cowling. will I have great planes style y belt IM happy with It but > IM with you fiberglassing the shelf just doesn't cut it I like to come up > with light wgt roll bar that will serve as attachment as well as some > rollover protection. i cant believe no buddy hasn't broken there neck from > all hi speed taxi accidents I can weld so I think all come up with something > under 10 lb. 18 20 inches at top attach to rear spar with two tubes attach to > the floor I looked at RV that had what IM trying to describe. kit plane had > some drawlings of roll bars some time back trying to find it for more ideas . > my nose gear is on kr net site under billy mcfarland it works .the stock deil > unit is to weak in stock form more then one person has found out the hard way > like me !!!!!! > > mac > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:47:50 -0500 To: , "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> safety belts Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C17D1E.15602D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gene Byrd just replaced the Dehl nose gear tube because it was bent. It = didn't bend far enough to do damage to the airplane. He said that when he= ordered a replacement tube from Dehl that Dan told him it would happen a= gain if he continued to land on a rough field. What did you fill your tub= e with? Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: Flymaca711689@cs.com Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:54 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> safety belts I have been trying to address this on my Kr back In April on my test flig= ht on landing on grass my nose gear failed to weak solved that problem. fill= ed and braced. will I just had a lap belt . 13 stitches broken nose crank = prop spinner cowling. will I have great planes style y belt IM happy with It b= ut IM with you fiberglassing the shelf just doesn't cut it I like to come up with light wgt roll bar that will serve as attachment as well as some rollover protection. i cant believe no buddy hasn't broken there neck fro= m all hi speed taxi accidents I can weld so I think all come up with someth= ing under 10 lb. 18 20 inches at top attach to rear spar with two tubes attac= h to the floor I looked at RV that had what IM trying to describe. kit plane h= ad some drawlings of roll bars some time back trying to find it for more ide= as . my nose gear is on kr net site under billy mcfarland it works .the stock = deil unit is to weak in stock form more then one person has found out the hard= way like me !!!!!! mac ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C17D1E.15602D40-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 03:16:35 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: safety belts, inspections Message-ID: Netters; Here's a theoretical question. Let's say I install "real" aviation-tagged seat belts in my airplane and the FAA person signs me off for test flights. I start flying my hours off but darned if the belts don't chafe my shoulders, so I remove them and install a set from a race car, and make appropriate logbook entries to document that change (as I am required to do with any other significant change) and she flies just fine. Then I return the "real" seat belts to the place I borrowed them from long enough to get the inspector to sign me off. The inspector is happy because he saw what he wanted to see. I am happy because in my opinion, I'm safer with 3" wide, 5-point harness belts than I was with 2" wide, lightweight belts. My paperwork is in order; the plane was signed off properly. The change was signed off properly. So? Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 05:30:51 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: nose gear Message-ID: Jack wrote: >Gene Byrd just replaced the Diehl nose gear tube because it was bent. Not sure what the heck he did to it, but here's a little story. A person from around these parts (no names named) was doing touch and goes, practicing short field landings in his trigear KR2. You know how there is a step at the runway threshold, where the pavement begins? About a nice 6" step? What do you suppose would happen if a guy made such a short short field landing that his nosegear didn't quite make the runway threshold when it touched down, and the tire made acquaintance with the step doing about, oh, 50-55 MPH? The solid steel mount part bent back. Nosegear leg is still out there, no damage. Oscar Zuniga Medford, Oregon mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************