From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 24 Feb 2002 16:07:58 -0000 Issue 380 Date: Sunday, February 24, 2002 8:08 AM krnet Digest 24 Feb 2002 16:07:58 -0000 Issue 380 Topics (messages 8952 through 8975): Re: flaps 8952 by: Mark Langford 8956 by: cartera 8957 by: Jerry Mahurin 8958 by: Tim Brown 8960 by: Jerry Mahurin 8962 by: Frank Ross 8964 by: Mark Langford 8965 by: Daniel Heath 8966 by: Daniel Heath The firewall 8953 by: JEAN VERON 8959 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER Re: Old guard-for sale 8954 by: UlricMoh.aol.com VW Engine Bore Size 8955 by: Phillip Matheson 8963 by: Mark Langford 8971 by: Tom Crawford Nigerian scam 8961 by: Glasco Slips and flaps 8967 by: John and Janet Martindale 8968 by: Linda Warner 8975 by: larry flesner Slips and rambling 8969 by: Bo124rs.aol.com Flying 8970 by: Jim Faughn 8972 by: Linda Warner 8973 by: Mark Jones Flaps/slips AND the aluminum VW cylinders 8974 by: Flibuoy.aol.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:37:38 -0600 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-ID: <001c01c1bcb2$51362cb0$7600a8c0@athlon600> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C1BC80.05AD3E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry wrote: >I have driven several types of airplanes over the past years (I was 64 = in January) and my general opinion is that you can do anything with a = slip that flaps will do for you.... < Remind me to get you to show me how you slip a KR while it's in ground = effect at the next Gathering. I'm always up for furthering my = education... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C1BC80.05AD3E00-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:20:32 -0700 To: Mark Langford From: cartera CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-ID: <3C784DF0.B521B3B5@cuug.ab.ca> Hello Gang, When I built my stock, there was no question should I use flaps or not, it was flaps, period. And they do make a difference with full flap, I could just sit back and do my finger tip control. Just try without flap and with flap maneuvers and you will see. I tried this on many spam cans and there is also a difference, try and land a Twatter with flaps up, fun! I have difficulty in understanding why this is questioned, what really happens is one that becomes familiar with no flaps or flaps. Personally I like the flaps and the control that one has with them. My KR was built in the early 80's and first flew on June 7th 1987 with flaps and positive locking retract gear, have not been sorry, depends what one gets used to. It's not a matter if it takes more time, it's what you want in you KR!! Mark you sure the hell do not look 64, but I guess with us good looking guys it's hard to tell, I am 68 and getting younger with my CFS. Have a good one guys! Mark Langford wrote: > > Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: > > > All I'd like to say is that flaps for all the work involved probably > > aren't worth it. From what I've read they real don't do much. My 2S which > > I've been flying since last summer doesn't have flaps, but it doesn't > > float so long that a 2500' runway is to short either. > > Ken Rand was quoted as saying "I didn't think I needed flaps until I > installed them" (or something like that). I suppose the people who know > best about the stock KR flap system are those who originally didn't have > them and installed them later, like Ken. Orma (AviationMech) is just such a > builder, and he will be quick to tell you that they are a worthwhile > addition, not only to allow a slower landing speed, but also because they > pitch the fuselage down a bit for a better view when landing. There may be > others, and they are welcome to chime in. > > On the other hand, I remember reading somewhere that somebody had them and > taped over them because they were useless. Who do you believe? I don't > know, but conventional aircraft wisdom is they are useful, although the tiny > KR flap size certainly diminishes their effectiveness. For the KR, it seems > like they would double as a much-needed speed brake during ground effect. > Of course it might be that the flaps' close proximity to the ground > exacerbates the gliding under ground effect and all things equal out. I > guess those with flaps would find it easy enough to test and find out if > they are useful or not. Just land without them and see how it goes! We > anxiously await your comments. > > All you really need to know about flaps is that 98% of aircraft have them, > so there must be a good reason. I figure my split flaps will cost me no > more than 8 pounds, and I think they will be worth every ounce, but I guess > I'll have to wait to find out for sure... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:25:45 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-Id: <3C787959.000001.65195@mahu4362> --------------Boundary-00=_X2V0QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_X2V0LVC0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_X2V0LVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, et al,=0D =0D Ye better have that baby kicked around straight as or just before you experience 'ground effect'..... But just how much help are true flaps in ground effect on a low wing plane; do not they amplify the ground effect.= =20 On the other hand if you have spoilers/dive brakes; either will deal effectively with the float of 'ground effect'. The same device can be either a spoiler or dive brake depending on it's location along the wing chord and /or if it is located on top or bottom of the wing.=0D =0D I imagine that you already know how to do slips, but if you are serious about lessons, I'll be glad to take a few trips around the patch with you= at the next gathering....=0D =0D As for my own learning, I hope that I never stop. That is one reason I pursue this 'crazy' hobby....!! I've been working with fiberglass since = the early '70s but learned a lot from your class in Pine Bluff...!! See; you can teach an old dog new tricks....=0D =0D Back into the ole foxhole.....=0D =0D =0D Jerry L. Mahurin=0D Lugoff, SC=0D See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Mark Langford=0D Date: Saturday, February 23, 2002 01:43:11 PM=0D To: krnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: Re: KR> flaps=0D =0D Jerry wrote:=0D =0D >I have driven several types of airplanes over the past years (I was 64 i= n January) and my general opinion is that you can do anything with a slip t= hat flaps will do for you.... <=0D =0D Remind me to get you to show me how you slip a KR while it's in ground effect at the next Gathering. I'm always up for furthering my education..= =2E=0D =0D Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama=0D mailto:langford@hiwaay.net=0D see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --------------Boundary-00=_X2V0LVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D =0A
Mark, et al,
 
Ye better have that baby kicked around straight as or just bef= ore you=20 experience 'ground effect'..... But just how much help are true fla= ps in=20 ground effect on a low wing plane; do not they amplify the ground=20 effect.  On the other hand if you have spoilers/dive brakes; e= ither=20 will deal effectively with the float of 'ground effect'.  The = same=20 device can be either a spoiler or dive brake depending on it's loca= tion=20 along the wing chord and /or if it is located on top or bottom of t= he=20 wing.
 
I imagine that you already know how to do slips, but if you ar= e=20 serious about lessons, I'll be glad to take a few trips around the = patch=20 with you at the next gathering....
 
As for my own learning, I hope that I never stop.  That i= s one=20 reason I pursue this 'crazy' hobby....!!  I've been working wi= th=20 fiberglass since the early '70s but learned a lot from your class i= n Pine=20 Bluff...!!  See; you can teach an old dog new tricks....
 
Back into the ole foxhole.....
 
 
Jerry L. Mahurin
Lugoff, SC
See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com
 
-------Original Message-------<= /I>
 
From: Mark Langford
Date: Saturd= ay,=20 February 23, 2002 01:43:11 PM
To: krnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re:= KR>=20 flaps
 
Jerry wrote:

>I have driven several type= s of=20 airplanes over the past years (I was 64 in January) and my general = opinion=20 is that you can do anything with a slip that flaps will do for you.= =2E..=20 <

Remind me to get you to show me how you slip a KR while= it's=20 in ground effect at the next Gathering. I'm always up for furtherin= g my=20 education...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net<= BR>see=20 KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~l= angford
=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -=20 Click=20 Here --------------Boundary-00=_X2V0LVC0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_X2V0QL80000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 18:52:11 -0800 (PST) To: Group KR NET From: Tim Brown Subject: flaps Message-ID: <20020224025211.9229.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Enough already! My question was not flaps...to be or not to be. My question was very simply a request for a web site showing how someone did "stock" flaps. I am following the manual and putting flaps on the damn thing. I was looking at various web pages several months ago and saw a really good set of photos of how someone did it. I can read the manual. I can see the plans. I simply was looking for "visual aids." I like to see pictures of how others have interpreted the manual/plans. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:04:30 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-Id: <3C78907E.000001.79395@mahu4362> --------------Boundary-00=_INZ0QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_INZ0LVC0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_INZ0LVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim,=0D =0D 'scuse me..... I'll dig thru some stuff and see what I can come up with..= =2E..=0D =0D =0D Jerry L. Mahurin=0D Lugoff, SC=0D See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Tim Brown=0D Date: Saturday, February 23, 2002 07:05:35 PM=0D To: Group KR NET=0D Subject: KR> flaps=0D =0D Enough already! My question was not flaps...to=0D be or not to be. My question was very simply a=0D request for a web site showing how someone did=0D "stock" flaps.=0D =0D I am following the manual and putting flaps on=0D the damn thing. I was looking at various web=0D pages several months ago and saw a really good=0D set of photos of how someone did it. =0D =0D I can read the manual. I can see the plans. I=0D simply was looking for "visual aids." I like to=0D see pictures of how others have interpreted the=0D manual/plans.=0D =0D Tim=0D =0D =0D __________________________________________________=0D Do You Yahoo!?=0D Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games=0D http://sports.yahoo.com=0D =0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"=0D =0D To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D =0D See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ =0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_INZ0LVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D =0A
Tim,
 
'scuse me..... I'll dig thru some stuff and see what I can com= e up=20 with.....
 
 
Jerry L. Mahurin
Lugoff, SC
See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com
 
-------Original Message-------<= /I>
 
From: Tim Brown
Date: Saturd= ay,=20 February 23, 2002 07:05:35 PM
To: Group KR NET
Subject: KR&= gt;=20 flaps
 
Enough already! My question was not flaps...to
= be or=20 not to be. My question was very simply a
request for a web site = showing=20 how someone did
"stock" flaps.

I am following the manual = and=20 putting flaps on
the damn thing. I was looking at various webpages=20 several months ago and saw a really good
set of photos of how so= meone=20 did it.

I can read the manual. I can see the plans. I
si= mply=20 was looking for "visual aids." I like to
see pictures of how oth= ers=20 have interpreted=20 the
manual/plans.

Tim


________________________= __________________________
Do=20 You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------To=20 post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org ,= NOT=20 "reply all"

To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscrib= e@mailinglists.org=20
For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists= =2Eorg

See=20 the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.= com/aviation/krnet/=20

.
=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -=20 Click=20 Here --------------Boundary-00=_INZ0LVC0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_INZ0QL80000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:10:58 -0800 (PST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-ID: <20020224061058.55451.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> > Enough already! My question was not flaps...to > be or not to be. My question was very simply a > request for a web site showing how someone did > "stock" flaps. > Tim Tim, You're not saying we get off the track real easy are you? Next you'll be saying Mark Langford is NOT 64 years old. This reminds me of the time I was looking at an older KR and got to wondering if you could repair a plane made with Dynel using fiberglass. The question led to a HUGE debate about the merits of Dynel with many folks trying to convince me not to build my plane with Dynel. Then there was the time I noticed some real nice looking wing-tanks on photos of early South African KRs and asked if anyone knew anything about them. Another LONG thread about the dangers of tip-tanks, spins and god knows what. Just when I was really getting into this whole thread on flaps, you had to go and ruin the fun! ===== Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:40:30 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-ID: <009f01c1bd06$89444250$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> Imagine the possibilities of slipping with flaps... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:08:45 -0800 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-ID: <005701c1bd34$6ac02190$b82c5d0c@dan> ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C1BCF1.5BE59F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, Thanks, that's all I ever wanted to know about flaps and a KR. Daniel R. Heath www.EAA242.com See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry Mahurin=20 To: krnet@mailinglists.org ; danrh@att.net=20 Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: Re: KR> flaps Danl' Yep, if you look in our blue plans book, you will see the flaps = as per plans..... Jerry L. Mahurin Lugoff, SC See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com=20 -------Original Message------- From: Daniel Heath Date: Saturday, February 23, 2002 03:37:39 AM To: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> flaps Does anyone know if flaps ever were "stock"? Daniel R. Heath www.EAA242.com See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Tim Brown" <timwbrown@yahoo.com> To: "Group KR NET" <krnet@mailinglists.org> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:17 PM Subject: KR> flaps > Who has a net page depicting stock or near stock > flaps? >=20 > Tim >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT = "reply all" >=20 > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org=20 > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >=20 > See the KRNet archives at = http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/=20 >=20 >=20 = --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply = all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org=20 For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ = .=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C1BCF1.5BE59F80-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:13:22 -0800 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-ID: <007501c1bd35$09ca3e10$b82c5d0c@dan> ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C1BCF1.FAFBC9F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, Thanks, that's all I wanted to know about flaps and the KR. Daniel R. Heath www.EAA242.com See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com Danl' Yep, if you look in our blue plans book, you will see the flaps as per = plans..... Jerry L. Mahurin Lugoff, SC See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C1BCF1.FAFBC9F0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 18:30:32 -0600 To: From: "JEAN VERON" Subject: The firewall Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1BC98.2DFD2420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually the firewall on the Sonerai II is galvanized steel flashing from= the hardware store. Jean ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1BC98.2DFD2420-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:39:35 -0500 To: "JEAN VERON" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> The firewall Message-ID: It's galvanized stel on lots of certified airplanes. Stainless ids for a more attractive appearance. Aluminum is not approved. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: JEAN VERON [mailto:n4dd@msn.com] Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:31 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> The firewall Actually the firewall on the Sonerai II is galvanized steel flashing from the hardware store. Jean ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:35:08 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: UlricMoh@aol.com Subject: Fwd: KR> Old guard-for sale Message-ID: --part1_b6.70c2acc.29a98f3c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_b6.70c2acc.29a98f3c_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: UlricMoh@aol.com Full-name: UlricMoh Message-ID: <111.dd18dc9.29a98e64@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:31:32 EST Subject: Re: KR> Old guard-for sale To: viscan@juno.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part2_b6.70c2acc.29a98e64_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 --part2_b6.70c2acc.29a98e64_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Phil, this is Uli, greeting, 58 aged, Berliner/Germany, wishing to build an=20 KR2-S as european UL (450 kg/65 km/h landing speed max), trying to get help=20 and ideas. First introduction I=B4=B4ve by RandRobs material, plans are orde= red.=20 Do You think there is a possibility to construct drive-out-wings near their=20 roots in that part, where they have parallel borders? Greetings from german=20 UL-scene at EDCE! UliM (skw=3Dskywalker) --part2_b6.70c2acc.29a98e64_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Phil, this is Uli, greeti= ng, 58 aged, Berliner/Germany, wishing to build an KR2-S as european UL (450= kg/65 km/h landing speed max), trying to get help and ideas. First introduc= tion I=B4=B4ve by RandRobs material, plans are ordered. Do You think there i= s a possibility to construct drive-out-wings near their roots in that part,=20= where they have parallel borders? Greetings from german UL-scene at EDCE! Ul= iM (skw=3Dskywalker) --part2_b6.70c2acc.29a98e64_boundary-- --part1_b6.70c2acc.29a98f3c_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:41:24 +1100 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: VW Engine Bore Size Message-ID: <007301c1bcd4$5fa63020$0100a8c0@barry> ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01C1BD30.91D01E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a VW Dealer Engineer, building a Type 4 VW engine, He wants to = put a 103 big bore kit in it. Most go to 94.4.??? I have read on the net of engines blowing due to very thin linings Can any one put some light on this for me?? Are then any engineers out there or qualified persons that can = comment???? Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01C1BD30.91D01E60-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:38:56 -0600 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> VW Engine Bore Size Message-ID: <009601c1bd06$520901e0$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> >I have a VW Dealer Engineer, building a Type 4 VW engine, He wants to put a 103 big bore kit in it.< VW engineer? Good luck on that one. The max bore for a Type 4 is considerably more than for a Type 1, for which 94mm is really the common max. They routinely make 105's for the Type 4, so 103 isn't TOO radical. They don't really "blow", they just start leaking around the rings after the cylinders go out of round. Well, maybe you COULD say they blow. But not the kind of thing that will leave your engine in silent mode instantly. I have 103's in my Type 4, but what do I know about Volkswagen's? Performance is often an issue of how often you can stand to rebuild your engine, as I see it, but then I view a rebuild as an opportunity to commune with my powerplant... Mark Langford, lookin' marvelous for my old age! mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:42:30 -0500 To: Mark Langford From: Tom Crawford CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> VW Engine Bore Size Message-ID: <3C78FBD6.4E86@ufl.edu> Mark Langford wrote: > > >I have a VW Dealer Engineer, building a Type 4 VW engine, He wants to put a > 103 big bore kit in it.< > > VW engineer? Good luck on that one. The max bore for a Type 4 is > considerably more than for a Type 1, for which 94mm is really the common > max. They routinely make 105's for the Type 4, so 103 isn't TOO radical. > They don't really "blow", they just start leaking around the rings after the > cylinders go out of round. Well, maybe you COULD say they blow. But not > the kind of thing that will leave your engine in silent mode instantly. I > have 103's in my Type 4, but what do I know about Volkswagen's? > > Performance is often an issue of how often you can stand to rebuild your > engine, as I see it, but then I view a rebuild as an opportunity to commune > with my powerplant... > > Mark Langford, lookin' marvelous for my old age! > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net Guys, As Mark has already touched on, the larger cylinders have thinner walls which have the potential to go out of round without proper cooling. For the T4 2L engine, 94mm is stock. There is a 96mm "big bore" replacement that gives you a few more cc's without too much difference in wall thickness, also slide in without modifying the case. IMHO- the wall thickness issue is more of an issue in cars than it is in an airplane. For those of you who are interested in this sort of thing, check out this website- http://www.LNengineering.com/ These guys have figured out the wall thickness problems, along with the dissimilar metal problem (aluminum heads with steel cylinders). Porsche figured it out a long time ago, but now you can "update" your old engine. As usual, all it takes is $$$$. Tom Crawford Gainesville, FL N262TC T4 2.4L Flying (for sale) N???TC RV6A Fuse '72 914 1.7L '73 914 hotrod project (2.6?) Mailto:toys@ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:43:07 -0800 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Glasco Subject: Nigerian scam Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020223204307.008cc750@mail.ridgenet.net> Have just received an e/m from a Mrs Maryam.S.Abacha detailing a very complicated deal involving $12 million in a Swiss acct, and offering me 25% for the use of my account in order to transfer the funds -- only what happens is surprise ,surprise, your funds mysteriously get sucked out of your account and into some untraceable Nigerian coffer. This scam has been going on for at least 20 yrs over here ,but some poor sucker falls for it every time. I suspect they may try it in the US and elsewhere so beware. _____________________ I've received the offer 4 times over the years. Didn't make sense to me the first time so I checked it out. Once your money gets to Nigeria it is gone. I'm surprised they are still using this ploy but I suppose there is always someone eager to get rich. Brad ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:27:27 +1100 To: "KRnet" From: "John and Janet Martindale" Subject: Slips and flaps Message-ID: <004001c1bd26$54bd8d00$66236e40@m1g0x7> ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C1BD82.70DE4EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks Slips will not do anything that a flap can. Try a flapless slip at the = same airspeed as a flapped approach and you will be dead meat. A slip = must have the nose put down to provide a higher airspeed since the stall = will occur earlier. Further slips can uncover fuel tank outlets and put = unreasonable side strain on flap hinges if you do have them. That is why = slips with flap extended are sometimes prohibited. Further, ten degrees = of flap allows you to lift the tail earlier on takeoff thereby improving = visibility, something no slip can achieve. I'm with Mark, I reckon flaps = are worth having! Cheers John.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C1BD82.70DE4EA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:50:31 -0500 (EST) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) Subject: Fwd: KR> Slips and flaps Message-ID: <15326-3C78EFA7-202@storefull-2171.public.lawson.webtv.net> --WebTV-Mail-5107-87 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit One major reason some aircraft are placarded against slipping with flaps extended is that they have found some will cause the tail to be blanked out from the disturbed air of the flaps and give you a violent down pitch, just when you don't want it. Close to the ground. I think you might find a warning against slipping with flaps extended in some of the Cessna flight manuals. John Sickafoose Naples Fl Hugs etc. Linda Kay & John --WebTV-Mail-5107-87 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-101-16.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.199.182) by storefull-2173.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 03:19:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by smtpin-101-16.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) id B1A217FC2; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 03:19:18 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: jaslkw@webtv.net Received: from mailinglists.org (server1.mailinglists.org [63.160.175.18]) by smtpin-101-16.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with SMTP id D12977F7A for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 03:19:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 17679 invoked by alias); 24 Feb 2002 11:18:55 -0000 Mailing-List: contact krnet-help@mailinglists.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Delivered-To: mailing list krnet@mailinglists.org Received: (qmail 17670 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2002 11:18:53 -0000 Message-ID: <004001c1bd26$54bd8d00$66236e40@m1g0x7> From: "John and Janet Martindale" To: "KRnet" Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:27:27 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01C1BD82.70DE4EA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: KR> Slips and flaps ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C1BD82.70DE4EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks Slips will not do anything that a flap can. Try a flapless slip at the = same airspeed as a flapped approach and you will be dead meat. A slip = must have the nose put down to provide a higher airspeed since the stall = will occur earlier. Further slips can uncover fuel tank outlets and put = unreasonable side strain on flap hinges if you do have them. That is why = slips with flap extended are sometimes prohibited. Further, ten degrees = of flap allows you to lift the tail earlier on takeoff thereby improving = visibility, something no slip can achieve. I'm with Mark, I reckon flaps = are worth having! Cheers John.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C1BD82.70DE4EA0-- --WebTV-Mail-5107-87-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:07:10 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Slips and flaps Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020224100710.008d4b80@mail.midwest.net> >Slips will not do anything that a flap can. Try a flapless slip at the same airspeed as a flapped approach and you will be dead meat. A slip must have the nose put down to provide a higher airspeed since the stall will occur earlier. John ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++ John and netters, That seems like a pretty black and white statement that I don't entirely agree with. A forward slip and an approach with flaps each allow you to more quickly lose altitude without an increase in airspeed. True, the stall speed will be higher on an flapless wing so you have to approach at a slightly higher airspeed. However, I don't believe you have to increase the approach speed with an flapless wing to a higher than normal approach speed just to do a forward slip. I think we're trying to compare apples and oranges here. All things considered, I think flaps offer a number of advantages but each builder must balance their decision on a number of factors. The airplanes performance without flaps , the complexity of installing them, the actual gains on that particular aircraft, etc. On my KR, I wanted a faster rate of decent, better visibility over the nose on approach, and more drag in the flare. A speed brake seemed to fit the bill here and I wouldn't have the extra lift in the flare. The flip side is I loose the capability of extra lift on takeoff. Everything has a trade-off. Each aircraft design has to be considered independly and flown to match its capabilities. How many (big flap)Cessna drivers would consider popping full flaps at rotation speed?! My Tripacer however with it's smaller flaps can have full flaps selected at rotation and shorten the ground run 20%. The flight manual recommends it and believe me it works. Also, full flap slips on some aircraft is more a control situation than mechanical limitation. It could blank out the tail and cause a loss of control. I normally land the Tripe with full flaps but with a crosswind of 20, gusts to 30, I choose no flaps for different handling qualities. Anyway, you see where this is all headed. Consider the type of flying you intend to do, the capabilities the airplane needs and choose the flaps, no flaps, speed brake, or combo of these to give you what you want. As far as one or the other uncovering fuel outlets, it again goes back to the particular aircraft design. Most Tripacers are carded against landing or takeoff on the right tank with less than 1/3 fuel , flaps or no flaps. It has to do with how the fuel lines are run. Or, try this one, I'm landing with a forward slip and decide on a go-a-round. I can end the slip and start my go-a-round almost instantly. How long will the transition take in a large flap Cessna with electric flaps. Bottom line, know your airplane and it's limitations. If you are building, pick the design points that give you capabilities you think you need and fly the airplane accordingly. I SEE NO BLACK OR WHITE HERE, ONLY DIFFERING SHADES OF GREY. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:02:37 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Bo124rs@aol.com Subject: Slips and rambling Message-ID: <8e.237faa28.29aa4c7d@aol.com> Boys, you new guys don't know what you are in for with me coming back on the list:-). To illustrate side loads placed on surfaces forced to operate for a long duration at an angle not with the prevailing wind let me relay some basic 172 first hand knowledge. While sitting in the back seat while another CFI student was at the controls we were exhibiting cross control recovery. We were in a slip with flaps extended (to illustrate recovery from a students uncoordinated turn from base to final) when the pilot mistakenly hit the flap lever. The introduction of more control surface so interrupted the airflow that the flap actuator support brace and flap track actually bent and locked that flap down. He raised the flap handle to the unexpected sound of metal crunching and nearly uncontrolled flight (only momentarily until the screams reached a fever pitch). Remember, you will be making aileron changes. Point made. Slips are effective but they do have a cost. Does a KR slip well, yes. Slips introduce all kinds of diminished airflow over the airframe and flying surfaces (slips are prohibited for anything over 10 seconds in my Bonanza because of reduced airflow over the elevators and stab). Keep in mind you have introduced a stall to the trailing wing root and possibly diminished airflow over the trailing horizontal stab because of the slip, so be prepared for an early break. In ground effect, a slower operating aircraft with flaps down will not float as far as a faster moving aircraft just out of a clip. All you are doing is making the air on top of the wing go faster to join the air on the bottom generating lift at a slower speed. It still stalls at the same angle of attack, just slower. On a KR with stock flaps you are not even really doing that as the flap doesn't extend it simply deploys. Out of a slip, your stall speed is just higher, but at the same angle of attack.......hence more float. But once again, look at Tom Crawford's KR, hell you can run faster than his stalls at. Just be sure and keep the slip within it's operating envelope, whatever that is with your KR. Slip your KR, but to say that you can do anything with a slip that you can do with flaps is not looking at the true picture. A slip will accomplish some things flaps will do but a slip will not encompass the range of flight characteristic advantages offered by flaps. Boy Tim, you just wanted pictures.................you got the non illustrated book :-) Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 KR National Gathering host. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:07:59 -0600 To: "KR Net Response" From: "Jim Faughn" Subject: Flying Message-ID: I had fun yesterday and just wanted to share it. Roger Ganfield, who isn't on this list, came in from Wyoming by way of Omaha, Nebraska to fly. Evidently he had his plane signed off almost a year ago and couldn't find anyone to give him a ride. Fortunately, the weather cooperated and he arrived at about 3 pm. We headed over to the airport and were able to get in an hour of flying and 5 landings with 12 knots of wind just about down the runway. He seemed confident when he left and is driving back as I write this. He is planning on attending the KR Gathering this next fall. I know everyone wishes him luck in his tri-geared KR. I haven't flown with someone in a while and it is interesting how different the plane flys at landing speed just before touchdown by myself and with a passenger. Alone, the plane floats more and it is a paitence issue. With a passenger, it still floats but it is much less and the landing will occur faster unless you hold the plane off. By myself, I typically touch the wheels at 50 - 55 mph. With a passenger, it would be 55-60 mph. I don't know if any of this helps or doesn't the people on the list but I'm still having fun flying my plane in St. Louis. By the way, I've already scheduled vacation to fly to Oshkosh this year for the 30th. Jim Faughn N891JF St. Louis, MO 63108 Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:28:51 -0500 (EST) To: jfaughn@mvp.net (Jim Faughn), krnet@mailinglists.org From: jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) Subject: Re: KR> Flying Message-ID: <15331-3C78F8A3-35@storefull-2171.public.lawson.webtv.net> Hi Jim. Always good to hear from you. I've enjoyed meeting you and talking to you at the gatherings. (And even singing with you) I'm delighted to hear you're contemplating bringing your KR up to Oshkosh. I really wish others would do the same . Maybe it's because they are small planes or because they are constructed inexpensively or that the type would build them don't like crowds, but there hasn't been a good showing of them in recent years. It would REALLY help the KR cause if we could get more KR's to attend this Fly-in (and Sun-n-Fun too). I help out driving the welcome wagon around at Oshkosh and will be sure to give any and all KR drivers a "special" welcome and royal treatment. It'd sure be nice to get a whole row of KR's there to show what can & has been done with Ken's design. Even though Jeannete doesn't get to attend Oshkosh any longer, this would help her tremendously. John Sickafoose Naples, Fl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:48:40 -0600 To: Jim Faughn From: Mark Jones CC: KR Net Response Subject: Re: KR> Flying Message-ID: <3C78FD46.A8C9C3B5@execpc.com> THANK GOD!!!!!!!! We will have at least one KR there. Mark Jones Jim Faughn wrote: > I don't know if any of this helps or doesn't the people on the list but I'm > still having fun flying my plane in St. Louis. By the way, I've already > scheduled vacation to fly to Oshkosh this year for the 30th. > > Jim Faughn > N891JF > St. Louis, MO 63108 > Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ -- Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at mailto:flykr2s@execpc.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:22:03 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Flibuoy@aol.com Subject: Flaps/slips AND the aluminum VW cylinders Message-ID: <109.df98ecc.29aa5f1b@aol.com> --part1_109.df98ecc.29aa5f1b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To save the bandwidth I will jump in on both topics. First, back to basics..a slip is clearly crosscontrolled flight and we know what can precipitates a spin...cross controlled flight at the stall. IF you slip you do not want to be anywhere near stall speed regardless of other aerodynamic theories. Slips are not bad things in of themselves. Bringing other airplane models/types into play in the KR discussion does little to answer KR questions in this case...in fact even KRs are seen with all sorts of flaps, split, "regular" and none, I have not heard of a fowler installation YET. Your answer for your airplane, if not in limitations set forth by manufacturer, is found by going way up high, with lots of room between you and the ground, and EXPERIMENT with your EXPERIMENTAL airplane. Compromise is everywhere in aviation design. Is the additional weight and building time worth it for flaps for you? If so, then flap it. Do you want to slip with flaps? If so, EXPERIMENT. No flaps installed slip, or flaps installed but not extended, and slip? Again, you should (must?) go up high and EXPERIMENT. Back to basics works everytime. Once you have been up high and gotten comfortable with your airplane behavior then you should consider compiling performance numbers with and without flaps for both takeoff and landing. Maybe you are cutting it a little thin on safety margins if flaps are required to make the numbers work on your airport. One flap equipped fact that is almost always true...flown smoothly your airplane will stall at a slower speed.. and that is nice feature when landing in trees or plowed field after an engine failure. Slow is VERY good at touchdown in those conditions. Aluminum cylinders...another compromise in aviation...they cost a lot more. That LNengineering website was very interesting and $ are only downside I found. I sure like the claimed loss of 20 pounds. Experience out there with them in VW ? john --part1_109.df98ecc.29aa5f1b_boundary-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************