From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 25 Feb 2002 01:38:48 -0000 Issue 381 Date: Sunday, February 24, 2002 5:39 PM krnet Digest 25 Feb 2002 01:38:48 -0000 Issue 381 Topics (messages 8976 through 9005): Re: Slips and flaps 8976 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 8979 by: Mark Langford 8980 by: Jerry Mahurin 8981 by: Philip J. Visconti Re: flaps 8977 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 8978 by: Jerry Mahurin 8991 by: virgnvs.juno.com 8994 by: virgnvs.juno.com 9003 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER retract to tri 8982 by: Sean Clay 8986 by: Philip J. Visconti Flap Landings 8983 by: Philip J. Visconti lavon viruses 8984 by: RICK WILSON 8987 by: Philip J. Visconti 8997 by: Mark Langford 9002 by: RONALD.FREIBERGER 9005 by: RICK WILSON Flibuoy and flaps 8985 by: Bo124rs.aol.com Re: KR-2 Safety issues? 8988 by: w.g. kirkland Re: Flexion Test of Sitka Spruce 8989 by: w.g. kirkland It can be done! 8990 by: Bob Lee 9000 by: Mark Langford Re: Flying 8992 by: virgnvs.juno.com 8993 by: virgnvs.juno.com carb quiz for the day 8995 by: Ed Janssen Thrust line thinking 8996 by: Darren Pond Re: VW Engine big bore kits site 8998 by: Phillip Matheson Flaps ,thank you all 8999 by: Phillip Matheson successful week building 9001 by: Tim Brown kr flying sun and fun 9004 by: Flymaca711689.cs.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:13:03 -0500 To: "Linda Warner" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> Slips and flaps Message-ID: Right, I think it's more pronounced on High wings with REAL FLAPS. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Linda Warner [mailto:jaslkw@webtv.net] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 8:51 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Fwd: KR> Slips and flaps One major reason some aircraft are placarded against slipping with flaps extended is that they have found some will cause the tail to be blanked out from the disturbed air of the flaps and give you a violent down pitch, just when you don't want it. Close to the ground. I think you might find a warning against slipping with flaps extended in some of the Cessna flight manuals. John Sickafoose Naples Fl Hugs etc. Linda Kay & John ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:33:38 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Slips and flaps Message-ID: <001001c1bd51$03ef7570$7600a8c0@athlon600> Larry, I agree with you completely. What I see as the biggest disadvantage to the plain flaps detailed in the plans is that they give you increased lift while flaring (in ground effect) and prolong the float. This may very well cancel out some of the benefits of landing a few mph slower, if short landings are your goal. That's why I made mine split flaps (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/99101051.jpg ), to get extra lift for slower landing speeds, but increased drag to "plant" it quicker as well. I think the reality of the KR is that since the landing roll is so much longer than the takeoff roll, you'd never find yourself wanting to do a short field takeoff using partial flaps, because the only way you could've gotten there in the first place is if you trailered it in there! Your other point is the other negative side of flaps when used on any aircraft. If you get used to landing at the lower speed that flaps allow, and then you have to do a go around and dump the flaps, you have to be careful not to dump them all at once or you'll stall it right there. I suspect with 135 hp Corvair out front that when I firewall the throttle, it's going to accelerate like a rocket, full flaps or not, so my case is different than most. Like everything else on my plane, I've tried to think through all the details and create a balanced whole that does what I want it to do. In my case, landing on the short sod strip at my father's farm is a priority. Like you said, personal choice, depending on what you want to end up with... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:50:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> Slips and flaps Message-Id: <3C79440E.000004.73537@mahu4362> --------------Boundary-00=_E4Z1BHK0000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_E4Z16RO0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_E4Z16RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Usually I get bored on most of these looong strings. But I've learned a = lot down here in the ole foxhole on this one..... I would really like to tha= nk each and every one for their input on this subject. I think this is a gr= eat group....!!!!=0D =0D =0D =0D Jerry L. Mahurin=0D Lugoff, SC=0D See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Mark Langford=0D Date: Sunday, February 24, 2002 08:34:09 AM=0D To: KRnet=0D Subject: Re: KR> Slips and flaps=0D =0D Larry, I agree with you completely. What I see as the biggest disadvantag= e=0D to the plain flaps detailed in the plans is that they give you increased=0D lift while flaring (in ground effect) and prolong the float. This may ver= y=0D well cancel out some of the benefits of landing a few mph slower, if shor= t=0D landings are your goal. That's why I made mine split flaps (see=0D http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/99101051.jpg ), to get extra lift for=0D slower landing speeds, but increased drag to "plant" it quicker as well. = I=0D think the reality of the KR is that since the landing roll is so much lon= ger=0D than the takeoff roll, you'd never find yourself wanting to do a short fi= eld=0D takeoff using partial flaps, because the only way you could've gotten the= re=0D in the first place is if you trailered it in there!=0D =0D Your other point is the other negative side of flaps when used on any=0D aircraft. If you get used to landing at the lower speed that flaps allow,= =0D and then you have to do a go around and dump the flaps, you have to be=0D careful not to dump them all at once or you'll stall it right there. I=0D suspect with 135 hp Corvair out front that when I firewall the throttle,=0D it's going to accelerate like a rocket, full flaps or not, so my case is=0D different than most. Like everything else on my plane, I've tried to thin= k=0D through all the details and create a balanced whole that does what I want= it=0D to do. In my case, landing on the short sod strip at my father's farm is = a=0D priority. Like you said, personal choice, depending on what you want to e= nd=0D up with...=0D =0D Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama=0D mailto:langford@hiwaay.net=0D see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford=0D =0D =0D =0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"=0D =0D To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D =0D See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ =0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_E4Z16RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D =0A
Usually I get bored on most of these looong strings.  But= I've=20 learned a lot down here in the ole foxhole on this one.....  I= would=20 really like to thank each and every one for their input on this=20 subject.  I think this is a great group....!!!!
 
 
 
Jerry L. Mahurin
Lugoff, SC
See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com
 
-------Original Message-------<= /I>
 
From: Mark Langford
Date: Sunday= , February=20 24, 2002 08:34:09 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re:= KR>=20 Slips and flaps
 
Larry, I agree with you completely. What I see as = the=20 biggest disadvantage
to the plain flaps detailed in the plans is= that=20 they give you increased
lift while flaring (in ground effect) an= d=20 prolong the float. This may very
well cancel out some of the ben= efits=20 of landing a few mph slower, if short
landings are your goal. Th= at's=20 why I made mine split flaps (see
http://home.= hiwaay.net/~langford/99101051.jpg=20 ), to get extra lift for
slower landing speeds, but increased dr= ag to=20 "plant" it quicker as well. I
think the reality of the KR is tha= t since=20 the landing roll is so much longer
than the takeoff roll, you'd = never=20 find yourself wanting to do a short field
takeoff using partial = flaps,=20 because the only way you could've gotten there
in the first plac= e is if=20 you trailered it in there!

Your other point is the other neg= ative=20 side of flaps when used on any
aircraft. If you get used to land= ing at=20 the lower speed that flaps allow,
and then you have to do a go a= round=20 and dump the flaps, you have to be
careful not to dump them all = at once=20 or you'll stall it right there. I
suspect with 135 hp Corvair ou= t front=20 that when I firewall the throttle,
it's going to accelerate like= a=20 rocket, full flaps or not, so my case is
different than most. Li= ke=20 everything else on my plane, I've tried to think
through all the= =20 details and create a balanced whole that does what I want it
to = do. In=20 my case, landing on the short sod strip at my father's farm is=20 a
priority. Like you said, personal choice, depending on what yo= u want=20 to end
up with...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
<= A=20 href=3D"mailto:langford@hiwaay.net">mailto:langford@hiwaay.net<= BR>see=20 KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~l= angford



----------------------------------------------= -----------------------
To=20 post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org ,= NOT=20 "reply all"

To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscrib= e@mailinglists.org=20
For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists= =2Eorg

See=20 the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.= com/aviation/krnet/=20

.
=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -=20
Click=20 Here
--------------Boundary-00=_E4Z16RO0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_E4Z1BHK0000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:08:37 -0500 To: jaslkw@webtv.net From: "Philip J. Visconti" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: Fwd: KR> Slips and flaps Message-ID: <20020224.120838.-220053.1.viscan@juno.com> I used to fly 150/152s and used flaps while slipping for crosswind landings. Of, course, that was over 20 years ago. I still have an instruction manual for the 150. I can not find any warnings against using flaps under certain conditions. Jerry, will you share your foxhole ? Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:12:58 -0500 To: "Daniel Heath" , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> flaps Message-ID: Hang on, we're not done yet ;o) Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Heath [mailto:danrh@att.net] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 8:09 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> flaps Jerry, Thanks, that's all I ever wanted to know about flaps and a KR. Daniel R. Heath www.EAA242.com See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Mahurin To: krnet@mailinglists.org ; danrh@att.net Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: Re: KR> flaps Danl' Yep, if you look in our blue plans book, you will see the flaps as per plans..... Jerry L. Mahurin Lugoff, SC See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com -------Original Message------- From: Daniel Heath Date: Saturday, February 23, 2002 03:37:39 AM To: Group KR NET Subject: Re: KR> flaps Does anyone know if flaps ever were "stock"? Daniel R. Heath www.EAA242.com See our KR2 at: www.JerryMahurin.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Brown" <timwbrown@yahoo.com> To: "Group KR NET" <krnet@mailinglists.org> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:17 PM Subject: KR> flaps > Who has a net page depicting stock or near stock > flaps? > > Tim > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- - To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ . ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:34:11 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: "krnet@mailinglists.org" From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-Id: <3C794033.000001.73537@mahu4362> --------------Boundary-00=_ZCY1QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_0DY1LVC0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_0DY1LVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Done that too, but as they say....'results are not predictable'....in mos= t cases. Some gliders can do it reliably. As Frank can tell you; sometime= s it is hard to get a glider DOWN, so you use all your tools and tricks....= =2E=0D =0D =0D Jerry L. Mahurin=0D Lugoff, SC=0D See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Mark Langford=0D Date: Saturday, February 23, 2002 11:50:10 PM=0D To: KRnet=0D Subject: Re: KR> flaps=0D =0D Imagine the possibilities of slipping with flaps...=0D =0D Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama=0D mailto:langford@hiwaay.net=0D see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford=0D =0D =0D =0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"=0D =0D To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D =0D See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ =0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_0DY1LVC0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D =0A
Done that too, but as they say....'results are not predictable= '....in=20 most cases.  Some gliders can do it reliably.  As Frank c= an tell=20 you; sometimes it is hard to get a glider DOWN, so you use all your= tools=20 and tricks.....
 
 
Jerry L. Mahurin
Lugoff, SC
See our KR2 at http://www.jerrymahurin.com
 
-------Original Message-------<= /I>
 
From: Mark Langford
Date: Saturd= ay,=20 February 23, 2002 11:50:10 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re:= KR>=20 flaps
 
Imagine the possibilities of slipping with=20 flaps...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net<= BR>see=20 KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~l= angford



----------------------------------------------= -----------------------
To=20 post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org ,= NOT=20 "reply all"

To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscrib= e@mailinglists.org=20
For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists= =2Eorg

See=20 the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.= com/aviation/krnet/=20

.
=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -=20
Click=20 Here
--------------Boundary-00=_0DY1LVC0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_ZCY1QL80000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:17:33 -0500 To: langford@hiwaay.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-ID: <20020224.154331.-360429.3.virgnvs@juno.com> Slip in ground effect???? You came in too hot, Virg On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:37:38 -0600 "Mark Langford" writes: > > Jerry wrote: > > >I have driven several types of airplanes over the past years (I was > 64 in January) and my general opinion is that you can do anything > with a slip that flaps will do for you.... < > > Remind me to get you to show me how you slip a KR while it's in > ground effect at the next Gathering. I'm always up for furthering > my education... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:15:07 -0500 To: langford@hiwaay.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> flaps Message-ID: <20020224.154331.-360429.2.virgnvs@juno.com> Whats the big deal about seeing over the nose ? Land a cub,T6,Tcraft or whatever, you cannot see foreward. Look at your side and see which way the edge of the runway is going. If it is parallel to your direction you are ok, Virg HUFF-PUFF On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:47:00 -0600 "Mark Langford" writes: > Kenneth L Wiltrout wrote: > > > All I'd like to say is that flaps for all the work involved > probably > > aren't worth it. From what I've read they real don't do much. My > 2S which > > I've been flying since last summer doesn't have flaps, but it > doesn't > > float so long that a 2500' runway is to short either. > > Ken Rand was quoted as saying "I didn't think I needed flaps until > I > installed them" (or something like that). I suppose the people > who know > best about the stock KR flap system are those who originally didn't > have > them and installed them later, like Ken. Orma (AviationMech) is > just such a > builder, and he will be quick to tell you that they are a > worthwhile > addition, not only to allow a slower landing speed, but also because > they > pitch the fuselage down a bit for a better view when landing. There > may be > others, and they are welcome to chime in. > > On the other hand, I remember reading somewhere that somebody had > them and > taped over them because they were useless. Who do you believe? I > don't > know, but conventional aircraft wisdom is they are useful, although > the tiny > KR flap size certainly diminishes their effectiveness. For the KR, > it seems > like they would double as a much-needed speed brake during ground > effect. > Of course it might be that the flaps' close proximity to the ground > exacerbates the gliding under ground effect and all things equal > out. I > guess those with flaps would find it easy enough to test and find > out if > they are useful or not. Just land without them and see how it goes! > We > anxiously await your comments. > > All you really need to know about flaps is that 98% of aircraft > have them, > so there must be a good reason. I figure my split flaps will cost > me no > more than 8 pounds, and I think they will be worth every ounce, but > I guess > I'll have to wait to find out for sure... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:31:36 -0500 To: , From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Cc: Subject: RE: KR> flaps Message-ID: He meant his wheels were slippin' ? Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: virgnvs@juno.com [mailto:virgnvs@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 3:18 PM To: langford@hiwaay.net Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> flaps Slip in ground effect???? You came in too hot, Virg On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:37:38 -0600 "Mark Langford" writes: > > Jerry wrote: > > >I have driven several types of airplanes over the past years (I was > 64 in January) and my general opinion is that you can do anything > with a slip that flaps will do for you.... < > > Remind me to get you to show me how you slip a KR while it's in > ground effect at the next Gathering. I'm always up for furthering > my education... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:09:59 -0800 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Sean Clay" Subject: retract to tri Message-ID: Anyone know how hard it is to change a KR from retract to a tri gear configuration? and is it really worth the hassel? _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:35:06 -0500 To: clay1pilot@hotmail.com From: "Philip J. Visconti" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> retract to tri Message-ID: <20020224.133507.-220053.7.viscan@juno.com> Sean, I asked this same question awhile back. It may be in archives. If not, I'll try to find replies I received and let you know. Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:54:22 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Philip J. Visconti" Subject: Flap Landings Message-ID: <20020224.125423.-220053.3.viscan@juno.com> I forgot to add that the airport runway is 1650 feet long, where I flew the 150s. Phil ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:12:39 -0800 (PST) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: RICK WILSON Subject: lavon viruses Message-ID: <20020224181239.42562.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> I GOT AN EMAIL FROM THIS LAVON LAVOYND WITH THE SUBJECT OF RPM'S FOR CONT. 0200. THIS WAS A SUBJECT I HAD ASKED ABOUT ON THE LIST IN THE PAST. IT MUST HOME IN ON WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN IN THE PAST TO TEMPT YOU INTO OPENING IT. CAN THE VIRUS AFFECT YOU IF YOU DON'T OPEN THE ATTACHMENT? THANKS,RICK WILSON __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:46:40 -0500 To: rwdw2002@yahoo.com From: "Philip J. Visconti" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> lavon viruses Message-ID: <20020224.134641.-220053.9.viscan@juno.com> ----__JNP_000_0140.392d.0786 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick, Now I'm worried about an E-mail I received yesterday. It was from someone that said he was in Germany and wanted info about using KR2S as UL in Europe. However, he sent E-mail under subject heading: "Re:KR>Old-guard for sale". Then he sent a second E-mail with an attachment but no message. I did NOT open the attachment. I deleted the E-mail. I guess I'm paranoid, but I stay away from attachments from unknown people. Mark, should I warn Herbert F. ? Phil ----__JNP_000_0140.392d.0786-- ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:05:58 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> lavon viruses Message-ID: <00bc01c1bd87$d3113740$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> > Mark, should I warn Herbert F. ? People don't deliberately send out viruses. Just the FIRST guy that sent it out to the world. All the rest are automatic (if you're dumb enough to open them) and simply sent to everybody in your address book or reply messages you've received or something like that. People who send these viruses out are not out to infect others, just don't know better than to open attachments. Just take a look at the name of the virus, and if it's not a jpg or gif or tiff or something you KNOW isn't dangerous, then delete it outright, regardless of who sent it. When I send somebody something, I try to explain what it is in the subject, and then again in the body. A few weeks ago I got an email from a KR builder whose email address was something like REL5636544@aol.com and the subject was "HELLO!". Well, needless to say I deleted it outright, along the rest of the junk mail I get, without bothering to read it. Later he called and wondered why I didn't return his email, thinking I'd blown him off. Moral of the story is that if you send stuff that looks like junk mail, and your email address is cryptic, don't expect your messages to be read by anybody... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:29:24 -0500 To: "KRNET" , "Mark Langford" From: "RONALD.FREIBERGER" Subject: RE: KR> lavon viruses Message-ID: Especially if you can't think of a better subject than Hello! ( or Flaps ?) Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 6:06 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> lavon viruses > Mark, should I warn Herbert F. ? People don't deliberately send out viruses. Just the FIRST guy that sent it out to the world. All the rest are automatic (if you're dumb enough to open them) and simply sent to everybody in your address book or reply messages you've received or something like that. People who send these viruses out are not out to infect others, just don't know better than to open attachments. Just take a look at the name of the virus, and if it's not a jpg or gif or tiff or something you KNOW isn't dangerous, then delete it outright, regardless of who sent it. When I send somebody something, I try to explain what it is in the subject, and then again in the body. A few weeks ago I got an email from a KR builder whose email address was something like REL5636544@aol.com and the subject was "HELLO!". Well, needless to say I deleted it outright, along the rest of the junk mail I get, without bothering to read it. Later he called and wondered why I didn't return his email, thinking I'd blown him off. Moral of the story is that if you send stuff that looks like junk mail, and your email address is cryptic, don't expect your messages to be read by anybody... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:39:02 -0800 (PST) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: RICK WILSON Subject: lavon viruses Message-ID: <20020225013902.87579.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com> PHIL, IALSO GOT AN EMAIL FROM SOMEONE IN GERMANY WITH THE SAME SUBJECT. I DELETED IT WITHOUT OPENING THE ATTACHMENT. I DON'T OPEN ATTACHMENTS UNLESS I KNOW WHO THEY COME FROM, BUT EVEN THEN I HOPE MY NORTON ANTI-VIRUS DOES ITS JOB. THANKS,RICK __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:26:21 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Bo124rs@aol.com Subject: Flibuoy and flaps Message-ID: <178.419b7c4.29aa8a4d@aol.com> Flibuoy pointed out that the introduction of other airplane types is not relevant in the KR discussion. I must respectfully disagree here. I have seen sooooo many different ways that people built their fuselage that you simple cannot predict with certainty how any one KR is going to act at a given airspeed, given angle of attack and slip angle given the prevailing wind. By discussing what other airplanes do, just may educate someone into looking into their configuration for closely. My thought would be to rely on past knowns and carry that forward into your flights tests. By relating past knowns, whether it occurred in a Cessna, Bonanza or Milk Stool (Tri Pacer)........................easy Larry (Larry knows I truly love his Tri), is good info to know. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 KR National Gathering host ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:30:37 -0500 To: "Alex Zobell" , From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 Safety issues? Message-ID: <004901c1bd64$76499e80$7db45bd1@utboopki> Alex; Most of the accidents involving KR's that I've read about involve pilot error or engine failure. I have yet to hear of one breaking up in flight. Gear collapsing inadvertently yes, but that has largely been cured. Engine failure yes, but those have been due to improper installation (mostly due tocarb problems) which can happen with any homebuilt or fuel starvation, usually due to pilot error. Built according to plans (use the new wing) the KR is as safe to fly as any other homebuilt but it is a pilots airplane that needs your full attention when flown. nb. I've been building for five years and only have about 3/4 hr on KR but I do have about 1000hr including Harvards, chipmunks and T-33. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Zobell" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 6:26 PM Subject: KR> KR-2 Safety issues? > First off by way of introduction my name is Alex and I > recently became interested in building a KR-2S. I > browsed through Mark Langford's site and I don't think > that the building part will be a particular setback. > Based on what I saw on his page the construction seems > like a glorified RC plane. (btw-I've been flying RC > since I was 13) The question I have is what is the > KR-2 safety record. This weekend I mentioned to a guy > here in town that I was planning on building this > plane. He then went off on its horrible safety record > and how I should build a Dragonfly or a Sonari II > instead. He said that the KR-2 wasn't structurally > sound for a 200 mph airplane. What I wan't to know is > that if I build this plane with the AS airfoil and > enlarge the horizontal stabilizer to calm down the > pitch sensitivity issues, and build the rest according > to plans, will I have an airplane where > safety concerns will not be an issue? (At least not > any more than it would be with any other experimental > airplane). Thanks. > > Alex > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:48:52 -0500 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Eduardo_Jos=E9_Jankosz?= , "krnet" From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: Re: KR> Flexion Test of Sitka Spruce Message-ID: <004d01c1bd64$78a45760$7db45bd1@utboopki> Eduardo, I made a very sophisticated stress testing machine using a bathroom scale, a beam to apply the stress and manually induced load. My sitka tested out about 11,000 PSI which is about what the books say. (10,500 PSI). My test rig probably has a fair margin of error but was certainly in the ballpark. Do you need the formula for calculating bending loads? W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eduardo José Jankosz" To: "krnet" Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 6:02 AM Subject: KR> Flexion Test of Sitka Spruce > Hi, KR Builders! > > Somebody does would make a simple flexion test with a piece of Sitka? With > that small pressing machine of mechanical shops? The manometer of that > must be graduated of 0 to 21kgf/sq.cm ( 0 - 300 lbs/sq.in) , for use a > piece with dimensions: 30 cm x 2 cm x 2 cm. The supports (narrows, but not > cutters) must be 28 cm between. The point of applying force must be > spherical (for example- a 2 cm piece of a bolt with 1/4" diameter)! I am > making some > tests with different woods and I would like know this for sitka spruce, > for a comparison! > Other question: what is the specific gravity of Sitka spruce? I visited the > site > of FPL (Forest Products Laboratory)http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us , and I found > for sitka 0,33 specific gravity! Who confirm to me this? > > Visit the KRNet in Brasil at http://br.groups.yahoo.com/group/kr2-brasil/ > > > Thank to all! > > > Eduardo José Jankosz > jankosz@bsi.com.br > http://www.bsi.com.br/cbcb > Curitiba - PR - BRASIL > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:42:32 -0500 To: "KRnet \(E-mail\)" From: "Bob Lee" Subject: It can be done! Message-ID: <001701c1bd6b$677f7080$040c0b0a@cheryl> Netters, This weekend I got in touch with an old friend that I have not spoken to in about a year. When I asked what's going on he said he was about to go up for a flight in his RV-6. To my surprise I found out he had completed it in nine months. This guy is not retired, he has a full time job, two kids and a wife. His history is that he built an RV-4, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox II, Kitfox IV, Rebuilt a Steersman and now the RV-6. My point: I thought I had quite an aggressive plan to get my KR flying in 24 months from now. This guy has given me hope that I could get done ahead of schedule, an RV-6 in nine months! The only thing that keeps us from flying is spending too much time waiting around for the plane to finish itself! I spent two hours in the basement after church this morning and got some work done welding my exhaust system. I should say re-welding as it is the same work I did last week but I had to cut it back apart and redo it because it didn't fit right. My suggestion: For those of us that have started a KR project, I suggest that we limit ourselves to not typing until we have worked at least two hours on our plane that day. With all the emotion that spews the flame throwing on this list we could convert that energy into completed KRs. If somebody's post gets you upset, let that motivate you to get to work so you can be a KR pilot some day rather that lashing back at them. Two good things happen, first and most important, you work on your KR, and second you have time to cool off and figure out how to reply an a helpful manner. If your KR is flying or you're looking at the KR for a project to start, you can talk any time you want to talk. For those of us that are "Professional Builders", no work no talk!! Anybody that starts a flame throwing contest over this post, just doesn't get it. The building and flying of KR aircraft is what draws us all together, not the idea that everyone needs to think the same. I'm looking for ideas that get us to complete our projects. How about a buck a post and the next guy to fly off his 40 hours gets whatever's in the kitty? (Just a joke, but we do need to look for ways to push each other to completion. Regards, Bob Lee _____________________________________ e-mail: mailto:bob@flyboybob.com web site: http://flyboybob.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:33:59 -0600 To: "KRnet \(E-mail\)" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> It can be done! Message-ID: <00f901c1bd8b$bf8542d0$0100a8c0@cmc3075662a> > My suggestion: For those of us that have started a KR project, I suggest > that we limit ourselves to not typing until we have worked at least two > hours on our plane that day. Not a flame, but it's become obvious to me that part of what makes it worthwhile for me to build my airplane is to share what I've learned with others during the process. Even though I "waste" countless hours doing things 2 or 3 times, researching different ways of doing things, and then publishing what worked to the net, I feel like that time wasn't a COMPLETE waste if I've kept a hundred other folks from making the same mistakes. That, in a nutshell, is why I do it! It's basically a selfish "scam" to make me feel like I'm getting more done than I actually do. So you might continue to hear from me, whether or not I get anything done in the basement... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:40:39 -0500 To: jfaughn@mvp.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Flying Message-ID: <20020224.154331.-360429.7.virgnvs@juno.com> What is your stall speed?? You are coming in TOO hot, Virg On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:07:59 -0600 "Jim Faughn" writes: > I had fun yesterday and just wanted to share it. Roger Ganfield, who > isn't > on this list, came in from Wyoming by way of Omaha, Nebraska to > fly. > Evidently he had his plane signed off almost a year ago and couldn't > find > anyone to give him a ride. Fortunately, the weather cooperated and > he > arrived at about 3 pm. We headed over to the airport and were able > to get in > an hour of flying and 5 landings with 12 knots of wind just about > down the > runway. He seemed confident when he left and is driving back as I > write > this. He is planning on attending the KR Gathering this next fall. I > know > everyone wishes him luck in his tri-geared KR. > > I haven't flown with someone in a while and it is interesting how > different > the plane flys at landing speed just before touchdown by myself and > with a > passenger. Alone, the plane floats more and it is a paitence issue. > With a > passenger, it still floats but it is much less and the landing will > occur > faster unless you hold the plane off. By myself, I typically touch > the > wheels at 50 - 55 mph. With a passenger, it would be 55-60 mph. > > I don't know if any of this helps or doesn't the people on the list > but I'm > still having fun flying my plane in St. Louis. By the way, I've > already > scheduled vacation to fly to Oshkosh this year for the 30th. > > Jim Faughn > N891JF > St. Louis, MO 63108 > Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:42:23 -0500 To: jaslkw@webtv.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: jfaughn@mvp.net, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Flying Message-ID: <20020224.154331.-360429.8.virgnvs@juno.com> AAMMEENN, Virg On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:28:51 -0500 (EST) jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) writes: > Hi Jim. Always good to hear from you. I've enjoyed meeting you and > talking to you at the gatherings. (And even singing with you) > I'm delighted to hear you're contemplating bringing your KR up to > Oshkosh. I really wish others would do the same . Maybe it's > because > they are small planes or because they are constructed inexpensively > or > that the type would build them don't like crowds, but there hasn't > been > a good showing of them in recent years. It would REALLY help the KR > cause if we could get more KR's to attend this Fly-in (and > Sun-n-Fun > too). > I help out driving the welcome wagon around at Oshkosh and will be > sure > to give any and all KR drivers a "special" welcome and royal > treatment. > It'd sure be nice to get a whole row of KR's there to show what can > & > has been done with Ken's design. > Even though Jeannete doesn't get to attend Oshkosh any longer, this > would help her tremendously. > John Sickafoose > Naples, Fl > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:43:12 -0600 To: From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: carb quiz for the day Message-ID: <003201c1bd7c$42608260$0200a8c0@dad> ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C1BD49.F7A480A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a friend with a Sonerai (2180 VW) who has a problem. Perhaps we = all might learn something about this VW/carb combination, if someone in = our group can enlighten us. Ed Janssen A friend writes: In December I noticed some fuel leaking from the carb = (modified Stromburg). This is not a new problem, but I thought maybe I = could put a stop to it. The fire wall is very close to the carb, and I = knew there was a set screw which allowed one to empty the fuel from the = carb. I thought I was tightening it. I really couldn't see what I was = doing. I was using a very small ratchet type right angle flat blade = screw driver. Anyway, I tightened the set screw down and was proud of = myself. However, the next time I tried to fly the plane, I couldn't get = it started. Well, I could get it started, but as soon as the prime was = gone, the engine would quit. So, I took the carb off the engine, not an = easy task, and checked out my work. I discovered I had tightened a set = screw above the one I thought I was doing. I have no idea what the = purpose of the one I tightened is, but I thought I would just back it = out one and a half turns and everything would be OK. I did so and put = the carb back on the plane. It started, and I thought I had the problem = fixed. Flew the plane for about half an hour. Went to Florida for a = month. When I got back, I encountered the same problem. It would start = off the prime, but would not keep running. Must have started it four or = five times before I gave up. I took the carb off again and repeated = what I had done earlier. This time it ran the screw back in and only = backed it out one turn. Results were the same. It started, and I flew = it for about half an hour. This was last week. Today I went to the = airport and experienced the same problem. This time I just put the = plane back into the hangar. What a bummer!!!!=20 I can't figure what the purpose of the set screw is unless it is a = needle adjustment of some sort and when I screwed it in tight, I pushed = the needle in too far and it is limiting fuel flow. However, if that is = the case, why does it start after I take the carb off and put it back on = the plane? Got any ideas what the purpose of that set screw is based on = the description I have given? ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C1BD49.F7A480A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:43:41 -0800 To: "krnet" From: "Darren Pond" Subject: Thrust line thinking Message-ID: <00cb01c1bd9d$da8be180$5f047218@cambr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01C1BD5A.CC1C5640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could start talking about my Zap flaps and belly board but I think I'll = let that go. =20 If you add more HP to a KR would it make sense to lower the thrust line = as at full power it will have less leverage (not the best use of = aerodynamic wording) to rotate the plane up words at full power. The = more hp come at the expense of more weight which I would like to keep = low anyway. Darren=20 just thinking ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01C1BD5A.CC1C5640-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:22:20 +1100 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> VW Engine big bore kits site Message-ID: <005801c1bd8a$1eb501c0$0100a8c0@barry> Tom Thanks Great info on VW big bore kits. http://www.LNengineering.com/ Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Crawford" To: "Mark Langford" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:42 AM Subject: Re: KR> VW Engine Bore Size > Mark Langford wrote: > > > > >I have a VW Dealer Engineer, building a Type 4 VW engine, He wants to put a > > 103 big bore kit in it.< > > > > VW engineer? Good luck on that one. The max bore for a Type 4 is > > considerably more than for a Type 1, for which 94mm is really the common > > max. They routinely make 105's for the Type 4, so 103 isn't TOO radical. > > They don't really "blow", they just start leaking around the rings after the > > cylinders go out of round. Well, maybe you COULD say they blow. But not > > the kind of thing that will leave your engine in silent mode instantly. I > > have 103's in my Type 4, but what do I know about Volkswagen's? > > > > Performance is often an issue of how often you can stand to rebuild your > > engine, as I see it, but then I view a rebuild as an opportunity to commune > > with my powerplant... > > > > Mark Langford, lookin' marvelous for my old age! > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > Guys, > > As Mark has already touched on, the larger cylinders have thinner walls > which have the potential to go out of round without proper cooling. For > the T4 2L engine, 94mm is stock. There is a 96mm "big bore" replacement > that gives you a few more cc's without too much difference in wall > thickness, also slide in without modifying the case. IMHO- the wall > thickness issue is more of an issue in cars than it is in an airplane. > > For those of you who are interested in this sort of thing, check out > this website- > > http://www.LNengineering.com/ > > These guys have figured out the wall thickness problems, along with the > dissimilar metal problem (aluminum heads with steel cylinders). Porsche > figured it out a long time ago, but now you can "update" your old > engine. As usual, all it takes is $$$$. > > > Tom Crawford > Gainesville, FL > N262TC T4 2.4L Flying (for sale) > N???TC RV6A Fuse > '72 914 1.7L > '73 914 hotrod project (2.6?) > Mailto:toys@ufl.edu > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:37:09 +1100 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Flaps ,thank you all Message-ID: <007401c1bd8c$2f096320$0100a8c0@barry> ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C1BDE8.611AE760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I raised this, some time back, And I really injoyed all the comments, Thanks Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C1BDE8.611AE760-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 16:14:01 -0800 (PST) To: Group KR NET From: Tim Brown Subject: successful week building Message-ID: <20020225001401.48770.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Last weekend I was all in a dither about the cable runs for my aileron cranks. By Wednesday that all got worked out and by the end of the day today.... Elevator works Rudder works Aileron cranks work And garage is clean ready to mess it up again this week. She'll fly next year Thanks all Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:36:28 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Flymaca711689@cs.com Subject: kr flying sun and fun Message-ID: --part1_a7.1c2957af.29aaef1c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like its all go for me to fly to sun and fun my Kr has been a blast for me. IM still trying to dial in best rate and best glide. it seams like 85 to 90 like the poh says rate of decent is much like a flypaper (tripacer) or microlight your coming down right now! I fly a tight pattern just like i do in the microlght it is so small they don't see you and if you follow the 150 guy that fly's like its a777 your not going to make the runway. hope we have a good turn out see yaa sun fun. allright get back to work you don't need flaps you need airspeed control you will see they be nice but i think i can land just as slow with out them. check out the yak 9 next to my Kr mark Jones was nice to me and put me on his site his Kr and mark langfords are going to be nice aircraft I thank both of them for put my aircraft on there sites Mac BB sport aviation --part1_a7.1c2957af.29aaef1c_boundary-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************