From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 19 Apr 2002 22:12:35 -0000 Issue 412 Date: Friday, April 19, 2002 3:12 PM krnet Digest 19 Apr 2002 22:12:35 -0000 Issue 412 Topics (messages 9728 through 9754): Re: A tale of eight rubber bushes 9728 by: Gary Sprunger Re: Returned mail: see transcript for details 9729 by: Robert Stone sunnfun 9730 by: w.g. kirkland Quality test on chromoly parts 9731 by: Tracy & Carol O'Brien 9733 by: Bob Farmer Re: fabricated w.a.f. 9732 by: Eduardo José Jankosz WAF's 9734 by: Robert Stone 9738 by: Seifert, Richard E 9739 by: Bob Farmer 9740 by: Ron Eason 9742 by: David McKelvey 9743 by: Serge F. VIDAL 9744 by: Ron Eason 9749 by: Larry A. Capps 9750 by: Ron Eason 9753 by: virgnvs.juno.com Re: bushes 9735 by: Serge F. VIDAL Guess what....It's Friday!! 9736 by: Dana Overall Brake master cylinders 9737 by: Stephen P. Glover Re: WAF's, 4130 9741 by: Rex T. Ellington 9747 by: Ron Eason Re: WAF's-respect?? 9745 by: Dana Overall Weight and balance 9746 by: bstarrs sun'n fun pics at last 9748 by: Leonardoadrenalina 9751 by: Frank Ross Wood kit ordered. 9752 by: Ricky Farley Re: corvaircraft: video 9754 by: Edwin Blocher Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:16:50 -0600 To: , From: "Gary Sprunger" Subject: Re: KR> A tale of eight rubber bushes Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1E6CA.89533B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It all depends on how you explain bush pilot to her. ----- Original Message ----- From: Serge F. VIDAL Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:16 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> A tale of eight rubber bushes I'm now getting ZS-WEC for two major events: the local EAA gathering, and the engine swap. Yes, I'm upgrading ZS-WEC from a 2 liter VW to a 2.4 lit= er VW. Better for our hot-and-high conditions. This is how I discovered that the engine mount bushes are worn beyond recognition. These bushes are conical mount bushes, Continental-type, but apparently non standard. The original builder cast them out of elastomer. Part of the degradation has come from a bad design of the engine mount (n= o countersink to take advantage of the bush shape). The rest comes from a resin which is slightly too soft and not heat resistant enough. Anyway, the story is that I had to get a crash course on elastomers, have= a mould made, choose a material, and try my luck. I demoulded the first bus= h half an hour ago. Result: slightly too soft, but otherwise OK. Therefore, I now qualify as a bush pilot! :-) The only trouble is that with 7 bushes to go, and four hours between demouldings, I will have to wake up in the middle of the night to demould= if I want to be ready for the week-end. Think my wife will understand? Serge VIDAL KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1E6CA.89533B00-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:46:01 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <002601c1e709$49a8b680$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1E6DF.60972C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank: Used the KRNet because you can see what happens every time I try to use your address. I don't know what to do about is, hope you do. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 9:54 PM Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > The original message was received at Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:54:35 -0500 > from cs26216-5.hot.rr.com [24.26.216.5] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > (reason: 554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account (kae.ar@yahoo.com) - mta528.mail.yahoo.com) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > ... while talking to mx2.mail.yahoo.com.: > >>> DATA > <<< 554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account (kae.ar@yahoo.com) - mta528.mail.yahoo.com > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1E6DF.60972C20 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="ATT00027.eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00027.eml" Return-Path: Received: from pavilion (cs26216-5.hot.rr.com [24.26.216.5]) by sm12.texas.rr.com (8.12.1/8.12.0) with SMTP id g3I2sZBA020677 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:54:35 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01c1e684$e8576e00$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> Reply-To: "Robert Stone" From: "Robert Stone" To: "Frank Ross" Subject: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:58:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1E65A.FF56AC80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1E65A.FF56AC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fsrank: Here is the rest of the story. REUNION EVENING STAR, APRIL 10, 2002 - PAGE 3 They also had a chance to = visit with Tracy's son, Austin, on, Sunday. Grandfather, father, and son = spent their first afternoon together. "I don't know how much Austin = understood," Tracy said, "but I know he'll remember meeting his = grandfather." "He 9s cute as'a button," Bob stated, and then went = on to describe at length, his grandson like all proud grandparents do' = What will this reunion bring to the lives of these two men? Tracy's = expectations for this reunion were to have answers to questions that had = lingered throughout his life. "Things that happen in your childhood = affect,you for life," he said. "I thought getting answers from my Dad = would be like. pulling teeth,, but he's answered everything that = I've asked. That's been the best thing. He's really been open, and we've = been able to talk so comfortably about everything." "I think I can = understand a'lot better now than when I was @ younger," Tracy continued. = "I have opportunity to stay in contact with my son, but my Dad didn't. = It's easy to think negative thoughts, when you don't know everything. I = think it's really helped knowing a lot, of the things I thought weren't = true. I feel grateful that we continued from page I have this chance." = ]But there's more to this story that already has one happy ending. There = are four more reunions @*that hopefully will happen. "My main reason for = this reunion," Tracy said, "was to see and get to know my Dad again, and = promote a reunion between my brothers and sisters. I'm not his only son. = I have two brothers and two sisters who are just as impoktant." "I would = like it to happen," Bob said. "They were practically babie@ when it = (tthe divorce) happened. I think they feel that I abandoned them, but I = always hoped that when they grew up they would realize that there are = two sides to every story." Bob and Tracy both feel that it will be a = challenge to reestablish contact with the other four, but it's a goal = they are both con.umtted to achieve. And although it has taken a long = time, Tracy feels that this renewed relationship is happening at the = nght time in his life. I "To resolve this with my Dad has had a = profound impact on my life," Tracy said as Bob nodded in agreement. Then = father and son smiled at each other and said almost simultaneously, = "It's never too late,!" ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1E65A.FF56AC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fsrank:  Here is the rest of = the=20 story.
 
 
REUNION EVENING = STAR,=20 APRIL 10, 2002 - PAGE 3 They also had a chance to visit with Tracy's = son,=20 Austin, on, Sunday. Grandfather, father, and son spent their first = afternoon=20 together. "I don't know how much Austin understood," Tracy said, "but I = know=20 he'll remember meeting his grandfather."=20 "He        9s cute as'a button," Bob = stated,=20 and then went on to describe at length, his grandson like all proud = grandparents=20 do' What will this reunion bring to the lives of these two men? Tracy's=20 expectations for this reunion were to have answers to questions that had = lingered throughout his life. "Things that happen in your childhood = affect,you=20 for life," he said. "I thought getting answers from my Dad would be = like.=20 pulling       teeth,, but he's answered = everything=20 that I've asked. That's been the best thing. He's really been open, and = we've=20 been able to talk so comfortably about everything." "I think I can = understand=20 a'lot better now than when I was @ younger," Tracy continued. "I have=20 opportunity to stay in contact with my son, but my Dad didn't. It's easy = to=20 think negative thoughts, when you don't know everything. I think it's = really=20 helped knowing a lot, of the things I thought weren't true. I feel = grateful that=20 we continued from page I have this chance." ]But there's more to this = story that=20 already has one happy ending. There are four more reunions @*that = hopefully will=20 happen. "My main reason for this reunion," Tracy said, "was to see and = get to=20 know my Dad again, and promote a reunion between my brothers and = sisters. I'm=20 not his only son. I have two brothers and two sisters who are just as=20 impoktant." "I would like it to happen," Bob said. "They were = practically babie@=20 when it (tthe divorce) happened. I think they feel that I abandoned = them, but I=20 always hoped that when they grew up they would realize that there are = two sides=20 to every story." Bob and Tracy both feel that it will be a challenge to=20 reestablish contact with the other four, but it's a goal they are both=20 con.umtted to achieve. And although it has taken a long time, Tracy = feels that=20 this renewed relationship is happening at the nght time in his life. = I  "To=20 resolve this with my Dad has had a profound impact on my life," Tracy = said as=20 Bob nodded in agreement. Then father and son smiled at each other and = said=20 almost simultaneously, "It's never too late,!" ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1E65A.FF56AC80-- ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1E6DF.60972C20-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:12:42 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: sunnfun Message-ID: <000801c1e70d$05b31ca0$2db45bd1@utboopki> ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1E6EB.7CDC4D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally got back Mon. 1100 nm at groundspeeds of 70 - 75 knots going = down Just got in Mon. night. parked in overflow by the VOR tower. = Missed the get together Tue. Didn't see a KR on the flight line. Great = lecture on aircraft wiring presented by a very competent young lady with = long blond hair. Left Thur at 7am. Got home Mon at 4 pm. Lots of = marginal Wx. Quit each day when it got down to 500 and 5 or the towers = got too close to our bottom. Copilot was a very experienced army helo = pilot who wanted to fly down river valleys, or at least use them as exit = routes. Learned how to use the DUAT system. Great experience but didn't = learn much about KRs. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1E6EB.7CDC4D00-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:51:23 -0700 To: Subject: Quality test on chromoly parts Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20020418135123.00806bf0@localaccess.com> Netters: The question came up of how to tell if you have "good" WAF's without bending them. The best way would be to have a hardness test performed on them. There is a nice chart in the metals section of the Aircraft Spruce catalog that shows the relationship of strength to hardness, using "Rockwell" numbers, which is what hardness testers read out in. When I have my axles heat treated, I specify a Rockwell "C" number of 30-34, which gives a tensile strength of 140,000 to 150,000 PSI. (Normalized 4130 is about 90,000 PSI). I'm not sure if there is a specification for the WAF's: maybe Mark or Dr. Dean can fill us in. Heat treating is a very beneficial process: it stress relieves your welded parts, will relieve the local hardening caused by laser cutting, and will increase the final strength of your parts. It's cheap too! I just had a 38lb batch of "fat" Challenger axles heat treated for $65.00. Regards, Tracy O'Brien ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:17:02 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Bob Farmer" Subject: Fw: KR> Quality test on chromoly parts Message-ID: <00d101c1e72f$28e28ea0$735b62d8@oemcomputer> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Farmer" To: "Tracy & Carol O'Brien" Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:15 PM Subject: Re: KR> Quality test on chromoly parts > For anything & everything to do with metal working you need a machinery > handbook. Here is one source but not the only one. > > http://www.encotools.com/ > > Bob Farmer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tracy & Carol O'Brien" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 4:51 PM > Subject: KR> Quality test on chromoly parts > > > > Netters: > > > > The question came up of how to tell if you have "good" WAF's without > > bending them. The best way would be to have a hardness test performed on > them. > > > > There is a nice chart in the metals section of the Aircraft Spruce catalog > > that shows the relationship of strength to hardness, using "Rockwell" > > numbers, which is what hardness testers read out in. When I have my axles > > heat treated, I specify a Rockwell "C" number of 30-34, which gives a > > tensile strength of 140,000 to 150,000 PSI. (Normalized 4130 is about > > 90,000 PSI). > > > > I'm not sure if there is a specification for the WAF's: maybe Mark or Dr. > > Dean can fill us in. > > > > Heat treating is a very beneficial process: it stress relieves your welded > > parts, will relieve the local hardening caused by laser cutting, and will > > increase the final strength of your parts. It's cheap too! I just had a > > 38lb batch of "fat" Challenger axles heat treated for $65.00. > > > > Regards, > > > > Tracy O'Brien > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:14:37 -0300 To: "krnet" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eduardo_Jos=E9_Jankosz?=" Cc: Subject: En: KR> fabricated w.a.f. Message-Id: <200204182113.g3ILDbP93829@cwbone.bsi.com.br> Hi, KR Netters! How many weight the w.a.f. made in 4130 steel? I calculate in about 5 kg (11 pounds)! Can be make the w.a.f. in titanium? Does it resistant how the 4130 steel? -----------"Working with 4130 is, quite frankly, a bitch, unless you have the right equipment"--------------------------------------!!!!!!!!!! The rear w.a.f. requires an angle to adjust the wing spar with the center spar.. So, the steel is soft and is tempering (heat treatment) after to be drill/double? What type of drills/saws are adequate to do this? A simple drill/saw refrigerated by soluble oil is sufficient? Regards! Eduardo José Jankosz jankosz@bsi.com.br http://www.bsi.com.br/cbcb http://br.groups.yahoo.com/group/kr2-brasil Curitiba - PR - BRASIL ---------- > De: Ron Eason > Para: Dean Collette ; krnet@mailinglists.org; bobby_whisenant1@excite.com > Assunto: Re: KR> fabricated w.a.f. > Data: Quinta-feira, 18 de Abril de 2002 07:40 > > You can buy the steel heat treated ready to cut and drill. The parts don't > need to be retreated. Not enough heat is generated during cutting unless > you cut them with a torch. I cut mine with a high speed band saw. > > KRRon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dean Collette" > To: ; > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:10 PM > Subject: Re: KR> fabricated w.a.f. > > > > Bobby wrote: > > > Is the price of w.a.f going to be the near the same price > > if one buys the mat.and takes them to a machine shop.Has > > anyone tried this. > > > > It's been a long time since I posted anything to KRNet, and > > since I have 20 minutes free, I'll give you my two cents on > > the subject. > > > > A few years ago I did exactly what you are proposing, > > namely, I took the drawings and went around to several local > > machine shops and asked them to quote a set of WAFs. A > > couple of things happened. First, if anyone found out that > > the parts are for experimental airplanes, many would jack up > > the price or refuse to quote it. Secondly, material became > > an issue - most machine shops don't stock 4130 so they have > > to special order it in a small quantity so the price goes > > through the roof. If I offered to supply it, they either > > want specific sheet sizes that are difficult to get or the > > waste amount starts effecting the price. > > > > Then came the big issue - heat treating. In order for the > > WAFs to made correctly, they need to be normalized to the > > spec called out in the plans (I don't recall what it is off > > the top of my head, and I'm too lazy to look it up right > > now.) When you order 4130, most (but not all) is sold in the > > "normal" state. But, if the distributor cuts it with a torch > > or laser, it needs to be normalized again. Then, depending > > on how the machine shop works the metal (i.e., laser, water > > jet, plasma, etc.) it most likely needs to be normalized > > again. This process is very important to the finished piece, > > because it dramatically effects the properties of the metal > > which translates to your safety. > > > > I talked to lots of different shops. I even called in a few > > favors, and asked for the "special discounts." But, in > > almost every case the price was outrageous. However, at long > > last, I found a shop with a laser that just so happens to > > make a lot of parts out of 4130 and they knew all about heat > > treating, and were fine with the experimental airplane > > business. But, I had to supply CAD drawings for the parts > > that they could suck into their machine, and a load of > > education (I won't go into that,) and patience. Since these > > guys could offer better quality and a better price then what > > was currently available, TET had a bunch made and has > > offered them for sale at a couple of different times to KR > > builders. > > > > I know it's not Friday, and this is really not an > > advertisement. I have heard of guys getting their WAFs made > > at reasonable prices at local shops, so it may be possible. > > I know that a bunch of guys have purchased the stock > > material and made them at home. If you know what you're > > doing - great, have at it. Working with 4130 is, quite > > frankly, a bitch, unless you have the right equipment. > > > > So, there you have it. If you have more money then time, > > just buy them. If you've got plenty of time and a little > > luck, you might find somebody who can make them for you at a > > reasonable rate. Just make sure the parts are at the right > > heat treating spec when you bolt them on the project. After > > all, they are holding the wings on . . . > > > > Dean Collette > > Trailing Edge Technologies, LLC > > mailto:dcollette@wi.rr.com > > See us at: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet/ > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:14:49 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: WAF's Message-ID: <002601c1e737$38939c60$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1E70D.4F946180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netters: With all the traffic I have seen on Wing attach fittings, it = seems since this is such an important part of the aircraft all builders = should buy them from TET. From what I have heard the price is right and = the product is perfect. I know from personal experience they are very = hard to make up in your garage unless you are a proto-type machinist = with all the right equipment. So that's my advice to all builders Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX rstone4@hot.rr.com ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1E70D.4F946180-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:23:50 -0700 To: "'KRnet'" From: "Seifert, Richard E" Subject: WAF's Message-ID: <9BA7A06DA8127B4B925954F3F8705D349F8266@XCH-SW-09.sw.nos.boeing.com> Can any of you metallurgical experts explain how any kind of cutting or machining process can make 4130 weaker than the normalized condition used in the KR plans. I always understood anything you did to it made it stronger. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:40:48 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Bob Farmer" Subject: Fw: KR> WAF's Message-ID: <010801c1e7b0$334f9b40$735b62d8@oemcomputer> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Farmer" To: "Seifert, Richard E" Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:39 AM Subject: Re: KR> WAF's > Richard I have never heat treated 4130 but other heat treatable steels are > taken to a temp. that hardens them to the max. say 1200 deg F. This may not > give you the properties you would like to have. After some cooling they are > put back in an oven and annealed at a temp. that will draw some of the > hardness out, say 600 f. and give the properties you would like to have. > Excessive heat during machining can change these properties also. Any good > machine shop will have a hardness tester and can check any part you might > have questions about. Is this the way 4130 is? ANYBODY > > P.S. the Machinery's Handbook has a lot on the properties of metals. > > Bob Farmer > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Seifert, Richard E" > To: "'KRnet'" > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:23 AM > Subject: KR> WAF's > > > > Can any of you metallurgical experts explain how any kind of cutting or > > machining process can make 4130 weaker than the normalized condition used > in > > the KR plans. I always understood anything you did to it made it > stronger. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:10:01 -0700 To: "'KRnet'" , "Seifert, Richard E" From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> WAF's Message-Id: <200204190810.AA113377502@jrl-engineering.com> You can not weaken the basic material chemistry by machining, cutting or heating it. You can remove the temper if you get the entire part over say 1000 deg F +-, but you can put it back by heating it up and quenching it. The rate of cooling and the intital temperature determines the hardness. Stress relieving and slight tempering starts at abouy 900 deg F. Therfore, if you weld it and letting it cool below red orange temp, then cooling it in water will stress relieve and harden it. You will experience some scaling [ oxidation of the surface]above at 1000 and above deg F. Use compatable welding rod and you don't change the chemistry when welding. KRRon ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Seifert, Richard E" Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:23:50 -0700 >Can any of you metallurgical experts explain how any kind of cutting or >machining process can make 4130 weaker than the normalized condition used in >the KR plans. I always understood anything you did to it made it stronger. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:36:27 -0500 To: From: "David McKelvey" Subject: RE: KR> WAF's Message-ID: So has anyone contacted TET about an order? I bought a project that has WAF's installed, and I've removed enough True Value hardware to make me uneasy about the WAF's. They are keeping your wings on in flight. I think I'll go ahead and get the TET parts, I've dealt with Dr Dean and have valued his help when he was on the list, I know he does them right. -----Original Message----- From: Ron Eason [mailto:ron@jrl-engineering.com] Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:10 AM To: 'KRnet'; Seifert, Richard E Subject: Re: KR> WAF's You can not weaken the basic material chemistry by machining, cutting or heating it. You can remove the temper if you get the entire part over say 1000 deg F +-, but you can put it back by heating it up and quenching it. The rate of cooling and the intital temperature determines the hardness. Stress relieving and slight tempering starts at abouy 900 deg F. Therfore, if you weld it and letting it cool below red orange temp, then cooling it in water will stress relieve and harden it. You will experience some scaling [ oxidation of the surface]above at 1000 and above deg F. Use compatable welding rod and you don't change the chemistry when welding. KRRon ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Seifert, Richard E" Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:23:50 -0700 >Can any of you metallurgical experts explain how any kind of cutting or >machining process can make 4130 weaker than the normalized condition used in >the KR plans. I always understood anything you did to it made it stronger. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:33:21 +0200 To: "Robert Stone" , From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: RE: KR> WAF's Message-ID: No, what I say is that they sometimes have to be very, very motivated to do so, because of: 1 - The exchange rate 2 - The shipment costs 3 - The Customs and Excise hassle Not to mention the fact that in many countries, you have to go through quite a lot of red tape simply to pay something abroad. So, most of them would probably be better inspired to go to the best machine shop available locally. Otherwise, I know enough of Mark and his legendary perfectionism to believe that WAFs probably can't get better than TET's. Serge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] Sent: 19 April, 2002 2:57 PM To: svidal@icon.co.za Subject: Re: KR> WAF's Serge: Are you trying to say that people (Builders) who live outside the US cannot purchase from TET????? Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serge F. VIDAL" To: "Robert Stone" Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:37 AM Subject: RE: KR> WAF's > Robert, > > Are you aware that not all the Netters live in the US? > > Serge VIDAL > KR2 ZS-WEC > Johannesburg, South Africa > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] > Sent: 19 April, 2002 2:15 AM > To: KRNet > Subject: KR> WAF's > > Netters: With all the traffic I have seen on Wing attach fittings, it seems > since this is such an important part of the aircraft all builders should buy > them from TET. From what I have heard the price is right and the product is > perfect. I know from personal experience they are very hard to make up in > your garage unless you are a proto-type machinist with all the right > equipment. So that's my advice to all builders > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX > rstone4@hot.rr.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:21:16 -0700 To: "Robert Stone" , , From: "Ron Eason" Subject: RE: KR> WAF's Message-Id: <200204191021.AA68092134@jrl-engineering.com> Wing attachment fittings have been hand made for years before TET or anyone slse. You can even cut them out with a good hand saw and drill them with a hand drill just as they were done by builders it the past. KR builders are builders and fabricators because of the nature of the drawings, but some would like to just be assembliers, and some do a combination of both. I people i respect are the builders and fabricators. KRron ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:33:21 +0200 >No, what I say is that they sometimes have to be very, very motivated to do >so, because of: > >1 - The exchange rate >2 - The shipment costs >3 - The Customs and Excise hassle > >Not to mention the fact that in many countries, you have to go through quite >a lot of red tape simply to pay something abroad. >So, most of them would probably be better inspired to go to the best machine >shop available locally. >Otherwise, I know enough of Mark and his legendary perfectionism to believe >that WAFs probably can't get better than TET's. > >Serge > >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] >Sent: 19 April, 2002 2:57 PM >To: svidal@icon.co.za >Subject: Re: KR> WAF's > >Serge: Are you trying to say that people (Builders) who live outside the US >cannot purchase from TET????? > >Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX >rstone4@hot.rr.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Serge F. VIDAL" >To: "Robert Stone" >Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:37 AM >Subject: RE: KR> WAF's > > >> Robert, >> >> Are you aware that not all the Netters live in the US? >> >> Serge VIDAL >> KR2 ZS-WEC >> Johannesburg, South Africa >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] >> Sent: 19 April, 2002 2:15 AM >> To: KRNet >> Subject: KR> WAF's >> >> Netters: With all the traffic I have seen on Wing attach fittings, it >seems >> since this is such an important part of the aircraft all builders should >buy >> them from TET. From what I have heard the price is right and the product >is >> perfect. I know from personal experience they are very hard to make up in >> your garage unless you are a proto-type machinist with all the right >> equipment. So that's my advice to all builders >> >> Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX >> rstone4@hot.rr.com >> >> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:44:10 -0500 To: "KR Builders \(E-mail\)" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: WAF's Message-ID: <001701c1e7da$937e2890$0600a8c0@schpankme> WAF'sters, 4130 (1/8" - MILS18729) is used in the normalized condition and does not require heat treatment. In the normalized state the maximum allowable tension stress is 95 ksi. At this value 4130 has good toughness and excellent elongation. Toughness means resistance to crack propagation and elongation means it can absorb energy in deformation without breaking. The 30 in 4130 represents a value of 0.30 percent carbon content. It is a general cut-off value for welding. Alloys with more than 0.30 percent carbon are not as easily welded. Carbon 0.30 Chromium 0.95 Manganese 0.80 Molybdenum 0.20 Phosphorus 0.035 max Silicon 0.25 Sulphur 0.04 max ORDERING MATERIAL: Supplier______Part#__________Price (72") ------------------------------------------- AS&S................03-19800...................$12.90 WICKS..........BR1/8x1-1/2-41...........$14.04 (MILS18729 .125 x 1-1/2" x 72" Normalized) ------------------------------------------- FABRICATING: - four-up at a time (drilling and shaping) - use low speed, steady pressure, and plenty of lubrication - drill bolt holes .010 undersize, and reaming to size CLOSING NOTE: Rand Robinson Engineering complete set of Wing Attach Fittings @ $385.00 (plus shipping) http://www.fly-kr.com Trailing Edge Technologies, LLC complete set of WAF's @ $285.00 (includes shipping) http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet Best Regards, Larry A. Capps Naperville, IL "People's attention is drawn by two things, the elegant and the unsightly. Take it from me, your plane is getting plenty of attention!" -----Original Message----- Wing attachment fittings have been hand made for years before TET or anyone else. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:04:23 -0700 To: "KR Builders \(E-mail\)" , From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> WAF's Message-Id: <200204191304.AA9437520@jrl-engineering.com> Takes about a day to fab all fittings.[ cut, drill,coat with paint]. Shorter if you have a drill press. KRron ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Larry A. Capps" Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:44:10 -0500 >WAF'sters, > >4130 (1/8" - MILS18729) is used in the normalized condition and does not >require heat treatment. In the normalized state the maximum allowable >tension stress is 95 ksi. At this value 4130 has good toughness and >excellent elongation. Toughness means resistance to crack propagation and >elongation means it can absorb energy in deformation without breaking. > >The 30 in 4130 represents a value of 0.30 percent carbon content. It is a >general cut-off value for welding. Alloys with more than 0.30 percent carbon >are not as easily welded. > >Carbon 0.30 >Chromium 0.95 >Manganese 0.80 >Molybdenum 0.20 >Phosphorus 0.035 max >Silicon 0.25 >Sulphur 0.04 max > > >ORDERING MATERIAL: >Supplier______Part#__________Price (72") >------------------------------------------- >AS&S................03-19800...................$12.90 > >WICKS..........BR1/8x1-1/2-41...........$14.04 > >(MILS18729 .125 x 1-1/2" x 72" Normalized) >------------------------------------------- > >FABRICATING: >- four-up at a time (drilling and shaping) >- use low speed, steady pressure, and plenty of lubrication >- drill bolt holes .010 undersize, and reaming to size > > >CLOSING NOTE: >Rand Robinson Engineering >complete set of Wing Attach Fittings @ $385.00 (plus shipping) >http://www.fly-kr.com > >Trailing Edge Technologies, LLC >complete set of WAF's @ $285.00 (includes shipping) >http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet > > >Best Regards, > >Larry A. Capps >Naperville, IL > >"People's attention is drawn by two things, the elegant and the unsightly. >Take it from me, your plane is getting plenty of attention!" > > > -----Original Message----- >Wing attachment fittings have been hand made for years before TET or anyone >else. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:46:16 -0400 To: davmck@verizon.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> WAF's Message-ID: <20020419.180921.-240819.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Would you send me the old WAF's, Virg On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:36:27 -0500 "David McKelvey" writes: > So has anyone contacted TET about an order? I bought a project that > has > WAF's installed, and I've removed enough True Value hardware to make > me > uneasy about the WAF's. They are keeping your wings on in flight. > I think > I'll go ahead and get the TET parts, I've dealt with Dr Dean and > have valued > his help when he was on the list, I know he does them right. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Eason [mailto:ron@jrl-engineering.com] > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:10 AM > To: 'KRnet'; Seifert, Richard E > Subject: Re: KR> WAF's > > > You can not weaken the basic material chemistry by machining, > cutting or > heating it. You can remove the temper if you get the entire part > over say > 1000 deg F +-, but you can put it back by heating it up and > quenching it. > The rate of cooling and the intital temperature determines the > hardness. > Stress relieving and slight tempering starts at abouy 900 deg F. > Therfore, if you weld it and letting it cool below red orange temp, > then > cooling it in water will stress relieve and harden it. > You will experience some scaling [ oxidation of the surface]above at > 1000 > and above deg F. > Use compatable welding rod and you don't change the chemistry when > welding. > > KRRon > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Seifert, Richard E" > Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:23:50 -0700 > > >Can any of you metallurgical experts explain how any kind of > cutting or > >machining process can make 4130 weaker than the normalized > condition used > in > >the KR plans. I always understood anything you did to it made it > stronger. > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:35:59 +0200 To: , From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: RE: bushes Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1E77D.3C5DE800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree. There are probably hundreds of automotive solution. The car industry is competitive, does mass production, has evolved for the past 100 years, and is not stranded by the certification process. So, if you want something cheap and effective, always look at cars first. Now, this time, I hadn't much choice: the engine mount is made already (my KR is a used one, I bought it second hand), so I needed a direct replacement. My options were either to have the bushes made of injected rubber, or to cast my own. For a batch of 16 (1 set, 1 spare set), both solutions compared in terms of costs: about $ 80 for the rubber, and $ 65 for the casting. I chose the casting because I like experiments, and because I wanted to own the mold. Now, with 1 liter of resin (minimum quantity sold), I will be able to cast 48 bushes at least. Enough to change them 6 times. Serge VIDAL KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa -----Original Message----- From: CHOCTAWCWR@aol.com [mailto:CHOCTAWCWR@aol.com] Sent: 19 April, 2002 12:31 AM To: svidal@icon.co.za Subject: kr serge, i think the bushings that are used on the sway bars in trucks have been sucessfully used as mounting bushings, a lot more durable than casting your own. charles robison atlanat, texas ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1E77D.3C5DE800-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:27:23 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Guess what....It's Friday!! Message-ID: Hey, it's still airplane building:-) This is a pic of the right elevator horn just prior to rolling the forward edges together. You can see the pre punched holes in the forward part of the skins that rivets go through when you roll bend to the two edges together. As for riveting, I riveted skin to the skeleton in about an hour and fifteen minutes. It really is not a big deal at all. Yes, just like TET WAFs, the horns come powder coated:-) http://rvflying.tripod.com/el_horn.jpg There you go, I put something KR in the post:-) Keep on building, Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:01:28 -0700 To: From: "Stephen P. Glover" Subject: Brake master cylinders Message-ID: <000f01c1e7aa$b59ac440$c18afea9@IntelliSpec> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1E770.06FFB7E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a good used set of Hegy/ Great Plains style master cylinders for = sale. $35.00 which will include shipping in the USA. Please e-mail off net if interested. Regards, Steve Glover Rancho Santa Margarita, Ca. n925sg@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1E770.06FFB7E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:15:16 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Rex T. Ellington" Subject: Re: Fw: KR> WAF's, 4130 Message-ID: <3CC03484.DB8A43D1@telepath.com> Gentlemen: Don't make the problem too difficult. Think how long 4130 has been around. The reason is that it was one of the first "air hardening" alloys. Note: no special quenching to control grain properties. It can be work-hardened to the breaking point. Otherwise, it is very forgiving. Think how many tubing clusters have been flame welded without big troubles. Simply bring it to red heat for a short time, to 'normalize' and let it cool in air. That is the flat strip one can buy from Wicks. On the other hand, as you know, copper will work-harden. So, when I clean spark plugs, I have a set of washers that I have normalized by hanging on a loop of safety wire and heated until red in the flame of bottle-gas bench torch. Then, quench in oil quickly to keep them soft, with no surface oxidation. This way they are soft enough to deform with reasonable load on the plug wrench and give a good seal. Rex Ellington Norman, OK. Bob Farmer wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Farmer" > To: "Seifert, Richard E" > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:39 AM > Subject: Re: KR> WAF's > > > Richard I have never heat treated 4130 but other heat treatable steels are > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Seifert, Richard E" > > To: "'KRnet'" > > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:23 AM > > Subject: KR> WAF's > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:30:00 -0700 To: , From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: Fw: KR> WAF's, 4130 Message-Id: <200204191130.AA180814048@jrl-engineering.com> Righ On! ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Rex T. Ellington" Reply-To: rtecg@telepath.com Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:15:16 -0500 >Gentlemen: >Don't make the problem too difficult. Think how long 4130 has been around. The >reason is that >it was one of the first "air hardening" alloys. Note: no special quenching to >control grain properties. >It can be work-hardened to the breaking point. Otherwise, it is very forgiving. >Think how many >tubing clusters have been flame welded without big troubles. Simply bring it to >red heat for a short >time, to 'normalize' and let it cool in air. That is the flat strip one can buy >from Wicks. > >On the other hand, as you know, copper will work-harden. So, when I clean spark >plugs, I have a set of washers that I have normalized by hanging on a loop of >safety wire and heated until red in the flame of bottle-gas bench torch. Then, >quench in oil quickly to keep them soft, with no surface oxidation. >This way they are soft enough to deform with reasonable load on the plug wrench >and give a good seal. >Rex Ellington >Norman, OK. > >Bob Farmer wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bob Farmer" >> To: "Seifert, Richard E" >> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:39 AM >> Subject: Re: KR> WAF's >> >> > Richard I have never heat treated 4130 but other heat treatable steels are >> >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Seifert, Richard E" >> > To: "'KRnet'" >> > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:23 AM >> > Subject: KR> WAF's >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" >> >> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> >> See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:56:10 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RE: KR> WAF's-respect?? Message-ID: > >I people i respect are the builders and fabricators. > >KRron > Sorry gang, I can't resist. Just because you buy something to put on your airplane does not make you any less the builder. You are only using all available avenues to achieve your desired outcome. For anyone to state otherwise is ludicrous. The mere fact that you bought WAFs, pre molded wing skins, pre molded turtle decks, Deihl gear legs, 4-1 exhaust from Great Plains, canopy, or a prop from Sterba, the list goes on, you will still have the respect of the vast, vast majority of this list. If I did any of the above and did not gain the respect of a person, the heck with it. I truly wouldn't care the least. Not harsh, just fact. I'm still shaking my head over that one. I'll have to place the above statement in my file of laughers from the KRNet:-). You will have the respect from those who matter, no matter what you do. Keep on building, but just remember.........if you "buy" something to put on your airplane...........you just may not be able to look at yourself in the mirror.............NOT:-) You know, if the RR plans were better, you wouldn't have to be a mind reader or fabricator to build the thing..............."fabricate forward deck at this time". Boy, this will probably start something. It'll probably be short lived as the "respected majority" will prevail!! Man your battle stations:-) Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:26:15 -0700 To: From: "bstarrs" Subject: Weight and balance Message-ID: <001401c1e7cf$b1356e80$9200a8c0@bstarrs> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1E795.0451D620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can any one recommend a web cite on weight and balance? I had one that = all you had to do was to punch in the numbers any time some thing = changed and it would give you the new CG. You did not have to refigure = the entire thing. Thanks, Bill Starrs, Prescott, AZ ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1E795.0451D620-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:17:32 -0300 To: , From: "Leonardoadrenalina" Subject: sun'n fun pics at last Message-ID: <007a01c1e7d6$dbd87c20$4cb9c0c8@estacao1> Hello mates!!!! This are the pics of sun'n fun i took last week and only now i could net them , i hope you enjoy, Leo. Brazil. http://www.geocities.com/adrenabh2001/speedboy.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:33:20 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> sun'n fun pics at last Message-ID: <20020419203320.79923.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Leo, Excellent pictures! Thank you for sharing them with us. Frank in San Antonio, TX --- Leonardoadrenalina wrote: > Hello mates!!!! > > This are the pics of sun'n fun i took last week and > only now i could net > them , i hope you enjoy, > > Leo. Brazil. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:08:26 -0500 To: From: "Ricky Farley" Subject: Wood kit ordered. Message-ID: <00e401c1e7e6$5c1244c0$6501a8c0@ENTERPRISE> ------=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C1E7BC.733C3CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I called Wicks today and ordered my wood kit. They told me that they have all the wood in stock, so it should only be a couple of weeks before I can start building. I'm still waiting on my plans from RR, but when I talked to her on Monday, she said they should be in the mail on Tuesday. Once I get those and the templates from TET that I ordered a couple of weeks back, I'll be in business! Looking forward to posting pictures (I know, must of you have already long finished this stage, but hey, one small step at a time!) Happy Building, Ricky San Angelo TX ------=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C1E7BC.733C3CC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:54:39 -0500 To: From: "Edwin Blocher" Cc: "KRNet" Subject: Re: corvaircraft: video Message-ID: <002a01c1e7ec$cfa241a0$839131cc@cyou.com> That reminds me. Michael Bieber, a WW Vidio is on the way to you via USPS. Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murray Green" To: Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 12:10 AM Subject: corvaircraft: video > ===============================CorvAIRCRAFT=============================== > Vairs; I received the W.W. tape from Ron Whittington, today. I just > finished viewing it and have to say that it really impressed me. The > contribution of Pat Panzera is outstanding and the effort and enthusiasm > of William, under such difficult conditions, must be commended. Congrats > to both of you for a job well done. > > Murray Green > RW-20 > Rosetown Sask P.S.- I'll have it in the mail by monday to > Peter Johnson Kenora Ont. > ===============================CorvAIRCRAFT=============================== > To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe corvaircraft" to"majordomo@usm.edu" > For help send "info corvaircraft" or "help" to "majordomo@usm.edu" ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************