From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 2 Jun 2002 13:08:04 -0000 Issue 442 Date: Sunday, June 02, 2002 6:08 AM krnet Digest 2 Jun 2002 13:08:04 -0000 Issue 442 Topics (messages 10516 through 10545): Re: Elevator Trim 10516 by: Dana Overall 10520 by: Serge F. VIDAL 10522 by: Daniel Heath Fun Friday warning:-) 10517 by: Dana Overall Hello one and all 10518 by: KRFlyboy.aol.com 10519 by: Rick 10521 by: Shawn Christopherson electric trim controls. 10523 by: Audrey and Harold Woods Finish Building!! 10524 by: Jim Faughn 10525 by: ROBERT COOPER Oil temps 10526 by: Kenneth L Wiltrout 10527 by: Daniel Heath Jerry cans at airport 10528 by: Darren Pond 10529 by: bstarrs jerry cans at airports 10530 by: Rick Wilson 10531 by: Keith S Melvill 10532 by: Shawn Christopherson 10539 by: virgnvs.juno.com fuel 10533 by: Michael Clark 10540 by: M&C grounding jerry cans? 10534 by: Darren Pond 10535 by: Shawn Christopherson 10537 by: larry flesner 10543 by: Daniel Heath jerry cans-ground? 10536 by: Rick Wilson 10538 by: virgnvs.juno.com Elevator trim from mirror motors - new pics on website 10541 by: Jerry Mahurin It is great serving the public 10542 by: John Esch Fueling aircraft 10544 by: JIM VANCE jerry cans ground? 10545 by: Rick Wilson Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:22:36 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> Elevator Trim Message-ID: Tom Crawford has his MAC servo mounted on the aft side of the elevator spar. He has reported no problems at all. That is where I mounted it. Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com >From: "Jeff York" >To: rstone4@hot.rr.com, krnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> Elevator Trim >Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:01:16 -0400 > >That makes me feel a lot better about the servo trim system I have. It's >broke right now anyway. Trim flap is just swingin in the wind. I think >thats >what was causing me to have pitch problems on the last flight. It has me >concerned about flutter now. Won't fly again until its fixed. Only problem >is trying to figure out the best way to fix it. It sure is tight gettin all >the way back there. > >The trim servo is mounted on the fuse side behind seat and runs through a >channel to the back of the plane. I would suggest that if you are >building.. >Don't do it this way!! > >Anbody out there think I will have any kind of elevator balance problem if >I >put the servo motor in the elevator? > >Jeff > >>From: "Robert Stone" >>Reply-To: "Robert Stone" >>To: "Robert L. Stone" , "KRNet" >> >>Subject: KR> Elevator Trim >>Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 06:50:34 -0500 >> >>Netters: This is just an opinion, but I think that trim and most >>certainly >>elevator trim should be manual. The reason is if the trim fails in the >>extreme up or down position, you are in a heap of trouble. Failure is >>much >>more likely with an electrical than manual >>system. You all may now proceed with the flack >> >>Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx >>rstone4@hot.rr.com >> >> > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ >and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 13:39:02 +0200 To: "Robert Stone" , From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: RE: KR> Elevator Trim Message-ID: Bob, 1 - No system is 100% fail-safe. 2 - The stick forces on the KR are light, very light. I once flew my KR fully loaded with the trim on the up stop position from take-off to landing (please, don't ask me why!), and it was just slightly uncomfortable. 3 - Electric trims are very convenient. Serge VIDAL Kr2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa -----Original Message----- From: Robert Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] Sent: 31 May, 2002 1:51 PM To: Robert L. Stone; KRNet Subject: KR> Elevator Trim Netters: This is just an opinion, but I think that trim and most certainly elevator trim should be manual. The reason is if the trim fails in the extreme up or down position, you are in a heap of trouble. Failure is much more likely with an electrical than manual system. You all may now proceed with the flack Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:51:40 -0700 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Elevator Trim Message-ID: Serge, Once again, you are right on.... I don't think the trim tab could possibly overpower the pilot for control of the elevator in the off chance that this occurred. We are definitely going with electric if we can find the right servo at the right price. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242 at: WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Serge F. VIDAL [mailto:svidal@icon.co.za] Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 4:39 AM To: Robert Stone; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: RE: KR> Elevator Trim Bob, 1 - No system is 100% fail-safe. 2 - The stick forces on the KR are light, very light. I once flew my KR fully loaded with the trim on the up stop position from take-off to landing (please, don't ask me why!), and it was just slightly uncomfortable. 3 - Electric trims are very convenient. Serge VIDAL Kr2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa -----Original Message----- From: Robert Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] Sent: 31 May, 2002 1:51 PM To: Robert L. Stone; KRNet Subject: KR> Elevator Trim Netters: This is just an opinion, but I think that trim and most certainly elevator trim should be manual. The reason is if the trim fails in the extreme up or down position, you are in a heap of trouble. Failure is much more likely with an electrical than manual system. You all may now proceed with the flack Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:28:24 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Fun Friday warning:-) Message-ID: I just got word that my wings are in crating right now. You know what that means..................more pictures:-) Thought I would just warn the plastic side:-) I just got my fiberglass emp. tips today. Those metal guys bi*ch and moan about those little glass parts like they have hemorrhoids...............piece of cake:-) Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:57:22 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: KRFlyboy@aol.com Subject: Hello one and all Message-ID: <174.922278e.2a29ae32@aol.com> Hello everyone, I am new to the list. I am very interested in making a KR my first project. I have searched the net for various information pertaining to the KR line of planes, and this seems to be the best centralized database of information. I am currently not a pilot. My intentions are to acquire my license as I am building the KR, plenty of time, right? I am facing a dilema, I am not sure which KR to build. I originally wanted to build a KR-1, but from what I have heard about the twitchy elevators on this craft due to the short aft section, I thought about buildng the KR-2. But I read here that the KR-2 and KR-1 are the same beast in different proportions. Then comes the KR-2S with it's extended tail to help with the touchy elevators. The only problem that I have with the KR-2 and KR-2S is the fact that it is a two seater. I really wasn't looking for a side by side. I don't like the aspects of not being able to take a deep breath while sitting in the cockpit without crushing all the air from a passengers lungs. So one of my questions is, can one make the KR-2S a single seat craft? or is it possible to make it a dual seat in tandem? Or, has anyone stretched out a KR-1 to help null the elevators? I know the tandem would play hell on the CG and personally do not think it is possible. Another question is.. what is the realistic speed achieved by the KR's.. I know they advertise 180 cruise and 200 max.. but have seen many different speeds on the net. So for those who are currently flying.. what is your engine size, max and cruise speeds? This is going to sound extrememly newbie-ish, but I don't understand something. If I am not mistaken, speed can be calculated by propeller length vs RPM. Am I right in thinking this? For example, if you have a 65 HP engine (VW on a KR-1 with a 52" prop turning at 3400 RPM's, the cruise speed would be say 167MPH.. but if you put an 85 HP engine on the same plane, with a 52" prop turning at 3400 RPM's, would the cruise speed still be 167MPH, or would the speed increase? I hope that some kind person will take the time to explain that to me. You all will probably be getting alot of questions from me in the near future as I determine if my building this plane will be a reality or not. I plan to join the local EAA here in Austin. So hopefully I will not bug you all too much. Also, does anyone have the details on the "differential elevator" mechanism from Don Cornwell's KR2. This concept was detailed in the October 89 KR Newsletter by Howard Kaiser (According to Mark Langfords build site. I would like to hear some more info on this, if it works, dimensions and all that jazz. Sorry for all the questions guys, expecially for a first post, but I have so many to ask, and do not know where to begin, so I will just start blurting them out. Please have patience with me... Ken Austin, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:19:06 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Rick Subject: RE: KR> Hello one and all Message-ID: <41ED2F1280124E4D8B88691C9A9B5FDE011B3E@mail.binoids.com> Hi Ken I recommend a KR-2S and widen the fusalage about 4" at the shoulders. Lots do this. Then use the new airfoil... Then add a 140 HP corvair engine. Then use Dr Dean hinges. Then....... You get the picture. No 2 KR's are alike. That's the beauty of the beast. I love it!!! If you have not already... Visit. http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/ Hope you like building. Take care and happy building Rick Hubka http://www.hubka.com/kr_main.htm rick@hubka.com 65 Butler Crescent NW Calgary AB T2L 1K4 Canada -----Original Message----- From: KRFlyboy@aol.com [mailto:KRFlyboy@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:57 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Hello one and all Hello everyone, I am new to the list. I am very interested in making a KR my first project. I have searched the net for various information pertaining to the KR line of planes, and this seems to be the best centralized database of information. I am currently not a pilot. My intentions are to acquire my license as I am building the KR, plenty of time, right? I am facing a dilema, I am not sure which KR to build. I originally wanted to build a KR-1, but from what I have heard about the twitchy elevators on this craft due to the short aft section, I thought about buildng the KR-2. But I read here that the KR-2 and KR-1 are the same beast in different proportions. Then comes the KR-2S with it's extended tail to help with the touchy elevators. The only problem that I have with the KR-2 and KR-2S is the fact that it is a two seater. I really wasn't looking for a side by side. I don't like the aspects of not being able to take a deep breath while sitting in the cockpit without crushing all the air from a passengers lungs. So one of my questions is, can one make the KR-2S a single seat craft? or is it possible to make it a dual seat in tandem? Or, has anyone stretched out a KR-1 to help null the elevators? I know the tandem would play hell on the CG and personally do not think it is possible. Another question is.. what is the realistic speed achieved by the KR's.. I know they advertise 180 cruise and 200 max.. but have seen many different speeds on the net. So for those who are currently flying.. what is your engine size, max and cruise speeds? This is going to sound extrememly newbie-ish, but I don't understand something. If I am not mistaken, speed can be calculated by propeller length vs RPM. Am I right in thinking this? For example, if you have a 65 HP engine (VW on a KR-1 with a 52" prop turning at 3400 RPM's, the cruise speed would be say 167MPH.. but if you put an 85 HP engine on the same plane, with a 52" prop turning at 3400 RPM's, would the cruise speed still be 167MPH, or would the speed increase? I hope that some kind person will take the time to explain that to me. You all will probably be getting alot of questions from me in the near future as I determine if my building this plane will be a reality or not. I plan to join the local EAA here in Austin. So hopefully I will not bug you all too much. Also, does anyone have the details on the "differential elevator" mechanism from Don Cornwell's KR2. This concept was detailed in the October 89 KR Newsletter by Howard Kaiser (According to Mark Langfords build site. I would like to hear some more info on this, if it works, dimensions and all that jazz. Sorry for all the questions guys, expecially for a first post, but I have so many to ask, and do not know where to begin, so I will just start blurting them out. Please have patience with me... Ken Austin, TX --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:48:01 -0400 To: From: "Shawn Christopherson" Subject: RE: KR> Hello one and all Message-ID: Welcome Ken, If you want two place then I wholeheartedly agree with Rick. If you want to stay single place then do the KR2S and just make it one seat, flown from the center. Using the new airfoil you can do what Mark Langford shows on his elevator. Use a single pushrod, so the elevator cables are not in the way. My KR2 has the cables and I am planning on flying from the center with extra padding on the two sides to raise me up enough to clear the cables. Good luck and you can ask all of your questions here. Another good resource is searching the archives from this list for topics that have been discussed in the past. Shawn Christopherson http://ifly99.tripod.com Gardner, MA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:56:27 -0400 To: From: "Audrey and Harold Woods" Subject: electric trim controls. Message-ID: <004101c2097c$823e2260$b0046418@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2095A.FA9E9A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I made a mistake. I decided to build rather than buy a trim control.An = electric motor from the hobby shop turned a stainless screw , a nut = moved back and forth on the threads . It moved a push rod to the trim. = Microswitches were installed. It was too clumsy. Redesigned and = installed on the elevator and rudder. 1 year wasted. I wish that I had = been on this net sooner to get the benefit of all the excellent = experience that is out there. Share your ideas with others regardless of = whether or not they are good or bad. The best will rise to the surface. = Harold Woods. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/02 ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C2095A.FA9E9A40-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:12:12 -0500 To: "KR Net Response" From: "Jim Faughn" Subject: Finish Building!! Message-ID: I was up this morning playing with the plane and just had to post this. After flying around I came back and did a number of touch and goes. I have to tell you that it is pretty cool when you are able to take off and you are at pattern altitude by the time you turn downwind and are at 165 mph ground speed (yes we did have some tail wind) on the GPS by the time you are at mid-field. Cut the throttle and get the speeds to something near reasonable before you turn base and then final slipping and landing on the spot you picked out at the 1000 foot mark on the runway and then up to do it again. What is cool is the controller this morning has worked Oshkosh many years and is going back. I asked if he wanted to see the plane and of course he did, so, I just had to do a missed approach at about 200 and do a maximum performance turn and climb so he could see the cockpit next to his tower. I have to say, flying these things are a lot more fun than building. So, everyone, finsh yours up so you can come out and play. Jim Faughn 4323D Laclede Ave. St. Louis, MO 63108 (314)652-7659 Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:45:35 -0400 To: "Jim Faughn" , "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> Finish Building!! Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2096A.39543B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is why I'm building. Jack Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Faughn Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 11:16 AM To: KR Net Response Subject: KR> Finish Building!! I was up this morning playing with the plane and just had to post this. After flying around I came back and did a number of touch and goes. I hav= e to tell you that it is pretty cool when you are able to take off and you = are at pattern altitude by the time you turn downwind and are at 165 mph grou= nd speed (yes we did have some tail wind) on the GPS by the time you are at mid-field. Cut the throttle and get the speeds to something near reasonab= le before you turn base and then final slipping and landing on the spot you picked out at the 1000 foot mark on the runway and then up to do it again= . What is cool is the controller this morning has worked Oshkosh many years and is going back. I asked if he wanted to see the plane and of course he did, so, I just had to do a missed approach at about 200 and do a maximum performance turn and climb so he could see the cockpit next to his tower.= I have to say, flying these things are a lot more fun than building. So, everyone, finsh yours up so you can come out and play. Jim Faughn 4323D Laclede Ave. St. Louis, MO 63108 (314)652-7659 Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2096A.39543B00-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 16:14:07 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Oil temps Message-ID: <20020601.161409.-202263.0.klw1953@juno.com> I just got back from Ocean City NJ, and since the outside temps were 80-85 deg's my oil temps ran consistently at 215-220 and they would have gone higher but I lowered the nose and let the climb speed build to 100 mph so as to ram more air into the cooler. in level flight they only dropped 10 deg or so, now the question-------------assuming my ram air duct is a good design as I think it is, Do the oil filters that I use make a difference? What about synthetic oils? Is there any other way to lower oil temps? Currently I'm using the Fram PH43 filter and 10-40 Castrol oil. Also, what are the oil temps in relation to the OAT's you guys are seeing. The Revmaster manual says 160-220 is in the green, 220-260 is in the yellow. Thanks for any replies.--------------------------Kenny 6399U ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:36:00 -0700 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Oil temps Message-ID: Ken, I used that filter, but a person who used to race autos and was very good at building engines, told me that I should use a constant weight oil, so I always used 30 weight, however, I doubt that the kind of filter matters much as long as it is a good one. Do you have a good exhaust for the cooling air, as the Exhaust is probably more important than the intake to keep the air flowing through the oil cooler and through the cylinder vanes. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242 at: WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth L Wiltrout [mailto:klw1953@juno.com] Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 1:14 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Oil temps I just got back from Ocean City NJ, and since the outside temps were 80-85 deg's my oil temps ran consistently at 215-220 and they would have gone higher but I lowered the nose and let the climb speed build to 100 mph so as to ram more air into the cooler. in level flight they only dropped 10 deg or so, now the question-------------assuming my ram air duct is a good design as I think it is, Do the oil filters that I use make a difference? What about synthetic oils? Is there any other way to lower oil temps? Currently I'm using the Fram PH43 filter and 10-40 Castrol oil. Also, what are the oil temps in relation to the OAT's you guys are seeing. The Revmaster manual says 160-220 is in the green, 220-260 is in the yellow. Thanks for any replies.--------------------------Kenny 6399U ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 19:18:20 -0700 To: "krnet" From: "Darren Pond" Subject: Jerry cans at airport Message-ID: <000801c209db$c3dfb120$79469d18@cambr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C209A1.1712FC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI All What are you the rest of you using to get the fuel from 6 gallon jerry = cans to header tanks? This pouring to a funnel in the wind idea is not = the best although it seems to be accepted at our EAA chapter.=20 Darren=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C209A1.1712FC20-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 16:24:25 -0700 To: From: "bstarrs" Subject: Fw: KR> Jerry cans at airport Message-ID: <003a01c209c3$b1472e20$9200a8c0@bstarrs> If you have a place to hold a stand built out of 2X4s that ought to do the trick . I'm going to give it a try unless some one has a better idea. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Pond" To: "krnet" Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 7:18 PM Subject: KR> Jerry cans at airport HI All What are you the rest of you using to get the fuel from 6 gallon jerry cans to header tanks? This pouring to a funnel in the wind idea is not the best although it seems to be accepted at our EAA chapter. Darren ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:13:37 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Rick Wilson Subject: jerry cans at airports Message-ID: <20020602001337.94112.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, You can use the hand operated type pumps like is used to refuel tractors in the field. They have a pipe that goes down into a can or five gallon bucket and a handle that operates the pump manually. The nozzle is about 1 1/2" dia. They can be found at any tractor supply or equipment supply store. I believe the last one I bought was about $25.00. Something to think about, Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:19:50 -0700 To: From: "Keith S Melvill" Subject: RE: KR> jerry cans at airports Message-ID: <001c01c209cb$35a56cc0$0200a8c0@zenmods1> Rick Said Hi, You can use the hand operated type pumps like is used to refuel tractors in the field. Hi Guys, I have also seen small pumps like mentioned above that are operated by a hand drill. That and your cordless drill, you're on your way. I have no idea how much they cost but they can't be much. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:39:41 -0400 To: "Rick Wilson" , From: "Shawn Christopherson" Subject: RE: KR> jerry cans at airports Message-ID: My dad has a hand pump that goes in a 50 gallon drum. That works very well and he just keeps the can in the back of his pickup. They also have similar pumps with electric motors that you could wire to the vehicle power. Shawn Christopherson http://ifly99.tripod.com Gardner, MA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:35:20 -0400 To: shawn@west-tek.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: rwdw2002@yahoo.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> jerry cans at airports Message-ID: <20020601.224225.-489765.2.virgnvs@juno.com> Static lines guys, Ground the plane and fuel source, Virg On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:39:41 -0400 "Shawn Christopherson" writes: > My dad has a hand pump that goes in a 50 gallon drum. That works > very well > and he just keeps the can in the back of his pickup. They also have > similar > pumps with electric motors that you could wire to the vehicle > power. > > Shawn Christopherson > http://ifly99.tripod.com > Gardner, MA > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:43:56 -0700 To: From: "Michael Clark" Subject: fuel Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C20993.E79C0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" you all are grounding these pumps and cans of fuel I hope? ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C20993.E79C0700-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:53:59 -0500 To: From: "M&C" Subject: fuel Message-ID: <005e01c209e0$d7074f60$6cae4ad1@matandcat> When fueling an aircraft that has a metal cap it's advisable to keep the nozzle in contact with the sides of the metal fuel port. By not doing so will set up a possibility of a static discharge between the fuel port and the refueling nozzle. Mike Turner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:20:09 -0700 To: "krnet" From: "Darren Pond" Subject: grounding jerry cans? Message-ID: <001d01c209ec$c8777900$79469d18@cambr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C209B2.1BC4B4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK=20 So your standing in the middle of the old taxi way with your jerry can = of 6 gallon cheapoo gas that was designed for a car. Now Supposed I do = use a hand pump or a battery drill and cheap water pump (replace seals = as time goes on). Exactly what do I ground my mostly wood aircraft and = plastic fuel container to? Darren=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C209B2.1BC4B4A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:15:29 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Shawn Christopherson" Subject: RE: KR> grounding jerry cans? Message-ID: That has always been my question too. Shawn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 21:12:04 -0500 To: "krnet" From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> grounding jerry cans? Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020601211204.0089c4b0@mail.midwest.net> Now Supposed I do use a hand pump or a battery drill and cheap water pump (replace seals as time goes on). Exactly what do I ground my mostly wood aircraft and plastic fuel container to? >Darren ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Provide a good conductor between all components in the system if not to a good earth ground. It's the difference in potental (volts) between the different components that gives you the spark. Plastic , by the way, can be one of the worst generators of static as the fuel flows through the line. I once read that you can generate 3500 volts of static electric by pulling two styrofoam cups apart. I have seen small paper scraps or even a human hair stand straight out from such a cup separation. When I refuel the Tripacer I always touch the nozzle to the fuel cap before I open the cap, even with the airplane grounded. And yes, I too pour gas from a plastic can into the Tripacer without grounding either or anything. One of these days it will probably get me!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 05:47:06 -0700 To: "krnet" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> grounding jerry cans? Message-ID: Watch what your local FBO does when he drives his fuel truck up to your plane. First thing, take out this long cable and clip it to your exhaust pipe. All you have to do is get any static build up, to not build up. Run a line from the nozzle go the exhaust pipe on your plane or to a grounding stake in the ground or to your metal hangar door. Or just lay it on the ground. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242 at: WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Darren Pond [mailto:pond27@rogers.com] Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 9:20 PM To: krnet Subject: KR> grounding jerry cans? OK So your standing in the middle of the old taxi way with your jerry can of 6 gallon cheapoo gas that was designed for a car. Now Supposed I do use a hand pump or a battery drill and cheap water pump (replace seals as time goes on). Exactly what do I ground my mostly wood aircraft and plastic fuel container to? Darren --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:29:50 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Rick Wilson Subject: jerry cans-ground? Message-ID: <20020602012950.18908.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com> I wouldn't think there would be much chance of a spark being discharged from a plastic can going into a fiberglass tank, with a hand pump doing the pumping. Even static electricity has to have a conductor to jump to or from and plastic or fiberglass does not conduct electricity. Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:40:02 -0400 To: rwdw2002@yahoo.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> jerry cans-ground? Message-ID: <20020601.224225.-489765.3.virgnvs@juno.com> Fuel flow WILL create STATIC electricty. Plastic & Fibreglass not withstanding! Clip to the plastic can and the filler point. To the tye down point as well if there is a rod into the ground. Do it and not need it or do not do it and someday find out that you did need it, Virg On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Rick Wilson writes: > I wouldn't think there would be much chance of a spark > being discharged from a plastic can going into a > fiberglass tank, with a hand pump doing the pumping. > Even static electricity has to have a conductor to > jump to or from and plastic or fiberglass does not > conduct electricity. Rick Wilson. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 00:03:48 -0400 To: "KRnet" From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Elevator trim from mirror motors - new pics on website Message-ID: Greetings, Dan and I made a pilgrimage to the 'ol U Pull It Salvage Yard today and pulled an electric side view mirror adjuster motor. We gonna try to make an elevator trim servo out of it. It has two bidirectional outputs on it, but I don't know if it will be strong enough to push/pull the nyrod though. If it doesn't, maybe we can cut it down and stick it in the elevator.... We shall see.... I ment to get some pictures of Dan getting his hands dirty, but left the camera in the truck..... He wouldn't even push the wheelbarow 'til I wiped the grease off the handles....!! But we do have a new section on the website for this little project. There is one pic on the home page; click on it and go to the construction page and from there you can go to 'all the trim pics' page. We have reorganized the canopy pages that way too. We will be posting some pics to the construction page and then ALL the pics (good, bad and ugly) on the 'all pics' pages. If this is confusing enough, go on out to the website and nose around and write if you got questions..... Keep on keeping on, P/S Haven't had time to do anything on the mead site yet.... Been spending my time in junk yards and chasing honey bees.... Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC http://kr-builder.org http://jerrymahurin.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:39:08 -0700 To: "Rick Wilson" , From: "John Esch" Subject: It is great serving the public Message-ID: <002801c209ef$7299f000$f7b7e343@VAIO> http://www.katu.com/pages/gallery/index.html I know it is not Friday, but I do not know what day it is due to working so much. Check the above link. I have to toot my horn. The unit I belong with did the majority of the mission of rescuing the downed climbers. Woo Hoo it feels great to help out. John Esch 1042 Medical Company (Air Ambulance) Salem, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Wilson" To: Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:13 PM Subject: KR> jerry cans at airports > Hi, You can use the hand operated type pumps like is > used to refuel tractors in the field. They have a pipe > that goes down into a can or five gallon bucket and a > handle that operates the pump manually. The nozzle is > about 1 1/2" dia. They can be found at any tractor > supply or equipment supply store. I believe the last > one I bought was about $25.00. Something to think > about, Rick Wilson. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 06:49:33 -0500 To: From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: Fueling aircraft Message-ID: <002d01c20a2b$c8354140$37000a0a@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C20A01.A7103EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am flying a Renegade I built while I am finishing my KR-2. The fuel = tanks on the Renegade are in the top wing: if you spill fuel, it runs = into the open cockpit. I built a portable filling station using a 12 volt rotary fuel pump like = those used on diesel trucks. I put it in a wooden case with a 12 volt = motorcycle battery. The pickup tube is copper, and I have a ground wire = from it to the pump, up the feeder hose to the shutoff valve, then to a = large alligator clip that I snap on the edge of the fuel filler opening. = Another ground wire is hooked to a large (8" long) nail that I stick in = the ground. Thus, everything is grounded. It pumps about a gallon a = minute, which gives me time to do my preflight and think about what I'm = going to do. I pumped 150 gallons of fuel last year before I recharged the battery. The trick in properly grounding a fuel container or tank is to have a = metal ground that is always below the surface of the fuel that is being = transferred. When building an all plastic tank with a plastic opening, = is it feasible to lay a braid from the filler neck to the bottom of the = tank (and exposed at each end)? That would give you a grounding site. Jim Vance ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C20A01.A7103EE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 06:08:05 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Rick Wilson Subject: jerry cans ground? Message-ID: <20020602130805.53481.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com> I know the possibility of an electrical spark is very present when refueling, why not be just as concerned every time you pump gas into your car? Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************