From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 4 Jun 2002 17:17:41 -0000 Issue 443 Date: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:18 AM krnet Digest 4 Jun 2002 17:17:41 -0000 Issue 443 Topics (messages 10546 through 10569): Re: Tail Wheel 10546 by: Stephen J Robinson 10547 by: bob.cringely.com 10559 by: John and Janet Martindale 10560 by: Daniel Heath 10561 by: John and Janet Martindale 10564 by: JIM VANCE Re: jerry cans at airports 10548 by: w.g. kirkland Re: jerry cans ground? 10549 by: w.g. kirkland Jerry Cans and Static 10550 by: Kerry Miller Re: Oil temps 10551 by: lounsbur.midmaine.com 10552 by: JC Marais 10553 by: Mark Jones 10555 by: lounsbur.midmaine.com N49TW 10554 by: Mark Jones $ and hours 10556 by: ROBERT COOPER refuling and grounding 10557 by: ROBERT COOPER Re: Jerry cans at airport 10558 by: Serge F. VIDAL Re: It is great serving the public 10562 by: ROBERT COOPER WAF locations 10563 by: Edwin Blocher static electricity and gas tanks. 10565 by: Audrey and Harold Woods grounding jerry cans 10566 by: Rick Wilson Belly boards 10567 by: clappw.bellsouth.net elevator trim 10568 by: Rick Wilson electric mirror control 10569 by: M&C Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:16:46 -0400 To: langford@hiwaay.net From: Stephen J Robinson Cc: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: Tail Wheel Message-ID: <20020602.091747.-355843.0.sjrobinson2@juno.com> Mark, Thanks for your reply. What you said makes sense to me. But I will also put this query out on the net and see what others have to say. If I am going to have the tailwheel under cable/rudder control, I may just think about having a fixed rudder/tailwheel single unit and use only one set of bellcranks to operate them with the rudder bar. I did not plan on being able to apply the brake to the tailwheel, just the main gear. Any reaction from KR tailwheelers would be appreciated. Steve Robinson On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:03:13 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't think you'd have much > control > over the airplane while taxiing if the tailwheel was allowed to > caster > unchecked. Maybe you're thinking of using differential (separate) > braking > on the main wheels, but that's dangerous at high speed too. Wicks > and > Aircraft Spruce sell "breakaway" tailwheels that swivel freely after > they > are cranked around to 30 degrees or so to facilitate taxiing in > close > quarters, but I don't think you want one that just swivels wherever > it wants > to. Where would it be pointing when you land, and what would happen > if it > was at 90 degrees to travel? > > But like I said, I'm no tailwheel expert, so why not ask on KRNet? > I guess > originally I thought this was posted to KRnet and was going to leave > it to > somebody that knows what they are talking about... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen J Robinson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:34 AM > Subject: Fw: Tail Wheel > > > > Mark, > > > > Don't know if you got the original message, sent earlier in May, > but > > haven't gotten a response. Would appreciate hearing your thoughts > on > > this. > > > > Steve Robinson > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Stephen J Robinson > > To: langford@hiwaay.net > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:06:21 -0400 > > Subject: Tail Wheel > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > Well, I'm on my way down the KR footpath. Banana boat is being > sanded > > for Poxy Fil coat prior to piercing it for the fore and aft wing > center > > spars, which have been laminated with dihedral beginning at C/L > of > > fuselage. With a 38" wide fuselage at bottom, that leaves me with > about > > 20"+ on each side for the retractable landing gear my brother is > > designing/building, with input from Don Betchan's original design. > I > > guess 6" tires is what will be used, but would like to go larger > if I > > can. > > > > My question is on the tailwheel. Plans call, as far as I can > figure it, > > for two bell cranks tied to the rudder bars, one is for the > rudder, the > > other is for the tailwheel. Is it possible/desirable to allow > the > > tailwheel to be free to rotate 360 degrees, with no connection to > the > > rudder bars? Or must I tie them in with the cabling which > controls the > > rudder via the rudder bars? Your thoughts and advice, please. > > > > Steve Robinson > > Deerfield, NH > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 09:59:40 -0700 (PDT) To: sjrobinson2@juno.com From: bob@cringely.com Cc: langford@hiwaay.net, KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Re: Tail Wheel Message-Id: <20020602095943.17431.h016.c001.wm@mail.cringely.com.criticalpath.net> I recall years ago when a guy at my home field put a full swiveling tail wheel just as you describe on his Nesmith Cougar (a Wittman Tailwind lookalike). The Cougar has a long fuselage and generally tracks straight, unlike the short fuselage on a KR. Still, he went off the runway on his first time out and immediately changed to a more conventional tailwheel. The moral of this story is simple: don't do it. Bob Stephen J Robinson wrote > > Mark, > > Thanks for your reply. What you said makes sense to me. But I will also > put this query out on the net and see what others have to say. If I am > going to have the tailwheel under cable/rudder control, I may just think > about having a fixed rudder/tailwheel single unit and use only one set of > bellcranks to operate them with the rudder bar. I did not plan on being > able to apply the brake to the tailwheel, just the main gear. Any > reaction from KR tailwheelers would be appreciated. > > Steve Robinson > On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:03:13 -0500 "Mark Langford" > writes: > > I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't think you'd have much > > control > > over the airplane while taxiing if the tailwheel was allowed to > > caster > > unchecked. Maybe you're thinking of using differential (separate) > > braking > > on the main wheels, but that's dangerous at high speed too. Wicks > > and > > Aircraft Spruce sell "breakaway" tailwheels that swivel freely after > > they > > are cranked around to 30 degrees or so to facilitate taxiing in > > close > > quarters, but I don't think you want one that just swivels wherever > > it wants > > to. Where would it be pointing when you land, and what would happen > > if it > > was at 90 degrees to travel? > > > > But like I said, I'm no tailwheel expert, so why not ask on KRNet? > > I guess > > originally I thought this was posted to KRnet and was going to leave > > it to > > somebody that knows what they are talking about... > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stephen J Robinson" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:34 AM > > Subject: Fw: Tail Wheel > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > Don't know if you got the original message, sent earlier in May, > > but > > > haven't gotten a response. Would appreciate hearing your thoughts > > on > > > this. > > > > > > Steve Robinson > > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Stephen J Robinson > > > To: langford@hiwaay.net > > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:06:21 -0400 > > > Subject: Tail Wheel > > > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > > > Well, I'm on my way down the KR footpath. Banana boat is being > > sanded > > > for Poxy Fil coat prior to piercing it for the fore and aft wing > > center > > > spars, which have been laminated with dihedral beginning at C/L > > of > > > fuselage. With a 38" wide fuselage at bottom, that leaves me with > > about > > > 20"+ on each side for the retractable landing gear my brother is > > > designing/building, with input from Don Betchan's original design. > > I > > > guess 6" tires is what will be used, but would like to go larger > > if I > > > can. > > > > > > My question is on the tailwheel. Plans call, as far as I can > > figure it, > > > for two bell cranks tied to the rudder bars, one is for the > > rudder, the > > > other is for the tailwheel. Is it possible/desirable to allow > > the > > > tailwheel to be free to rotate 360 degrees, with no connection to > > the > > > rudder bars? Or must I tie them in with the cabling which > > controls the > > > rudder via the rudder bars? Your thoughts and advice, please. > > > > > > Steve Robinson > > > Deerfield, NH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:31:02 +1000 To: , "Stephen J Robinson" From: "John and Janet Martindale" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> Re: Tail Wheel Message-ID: <006a01c20ad2$e882eea0$95de12d2@m1g0x7> Folks I have tried taxiing using a freely castoring tailwheel and differential main brakes. I found it very difficult to control at anything above walking pace. I then tried compression springs on the tailwheel connected to the rudders cable per the plans and it was a lot better but I tended to oversteer due to the lag in the springs relaying force to the tail wheel horn. Finally I just used cables direct per the plans and am now happy. It could be tricky to connect the tailwheel horns direct to the rudder because the former must be allowed to move up and down as the tailspring flexes over the bumps. You do not want any vertical movement relayed to the rudder hinges. My tailwheel spring is now deforming (see earlier posts) and the whole back end is now like the bloody engine cowlings....taking forever to get worked out to my satisfaction!! See Ya John and Janet Martindale 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA ph: 61 2 66584767 ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen J Robinson To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 11:16 PM Subject: KR> Re: Tail Wheel > Mark, > > Thanks for your reply. What you said makes sense to me. But I will also > put this query out on the net and see what others have to say. If I am > going to have the tailwheel under cable/rudder control, I may just think > about having a fixed rudder/tailwheel single unit and use only one set of > bellcranks to operate them with the rudder bar. I did not plan on being > able to apply the brake to the tailwheel, just the main gear. Any > reaction from KR tailwheelers would be appreciated. > > Steve Robinson > On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:03:13 -0500 "Mark Langford" > writes: > > I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't think you'd have much > > control > > over the airplane while taxiing if the tailwheel was allowed to > > caster > > unchecked. Maybe you're thinking of using differential (separate) > > braking > > on the main wheels, but that's dangerous at high speed too. Wicks > > and > > Aircraft Spruce sell "breakaway" tailwheels that swivel freely after > > they > > are cranked around to 30 degrees or so to facilitate taxiing in > > close > > quarters, but I don't think you want one that just swivels wherever > > it wants > > to. Where would it be pointing when you land, and what would happen > > if it > > was at 90 degrees to travel? > > > > But like I said, I'm no tailwheel expert, so why not ask on KRNet? > > I guess > > originally I thought this was posted to KRnet and was going to leave > > it to > > somebody that knows what they are talking about... > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stephen J Robinson" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:34 AM > > Subject: Fw: Tail Wheel > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > Don't know if you got the original message, sent earlier in May, > > but > > > haven't gotten a response. Would appreciate hearing your thoughts > > on > > > this. > > > > > > Steve Robinson > > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Stephen J Robinson > > > To: langford@hiwaay.net > > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:06:21 -0400 > > > Subject: Tail Wheel > > > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > > > Well, I'm on my way down the KR footpath. Banana boat is being > > sanded > > > for Poxy Fil coat prior to piercing it for the fore and aft wing > > center > > > spars, which have been laminated with dihedral beginning at C/L > > of > > > fuselage. With a 38" wide fuselage at bottom, that leaves me with > > about > > > 20"+ on each side for the retractable landing gear my brother is > > > designing/building, with input from Don Betchan's original design. > > I > > > guess 6" tires is what will be used, but would like to go larger > > if I > > > can. > > > > > > My question is on the tailwheel. Plans call, as far as I can > > figure it, > > > for two bell cranks tied to the rudder bars, one is for the > > rudder, the > > > other is for the tailwheel. Is it possible/desirable to allow > > the > > > tailwheel to be free to rotate 360 degrees, with no connection to > > the > > > rudder bars? Or must I tie them in with the cabling which > > controls the > > > rudder via the rudder bars? Your thoughts and advice, please. > > > > > > Steve Robinson > > > Deerfield, NH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 06:12:19 -0700 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Re: Tail Wheel Message-ID: I don't see how you get the light tailwheel pressures of a KR to compress a compression spring. I found just the opposite, it was just like having a direct connect, which you do not want. The direct connect may be great for taxiing, but I don't think you want that when landing your airplane. The lag in steering with tension springs is acceptable, if it is not too much. This can be adjusted by the amount of tension the spring applies. Then, you just have to learn how to do it. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242 at: WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: John and Janet Martindale [mailto:johnjane@chc.net.au] Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 12:31 AM To: langford@hiwaay.net; Stephen J Robinson Cc: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Re: Tail Wheel Folks I have tried taxiing using a freely castoring tailwheel and differential main brakes. I found it very difficult to control at anything above walking pace. I then tried compression springs on the tailwheel connected to the rudders cable per the plans and it was a lot better but I tended to oversteer due to the lag in the springs relaying force to the tail wheel horn. Finally I just used cables direct per the plans and am now happy. It could be tricky to connect the tailwheel horns direct to the rudder because the former must be allowed to move up and down as the tailspring flexes over the bumps. You do not want any vertical movement relayed to the rudder hinges. My tailwheel spring is now deforming (see earlier posts) and the whole back end is now like the bloody engine cowlings....taking forever to get worked out to my satisfaction!! See Ya John and Janet Martindale 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA ph: 61 2 66584767 ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen J Robinson To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 11:16 PM Subject: KR> Re: Tail Wheel > Mark, > > Thanks for your reply. What you said makes sense to me. But I will also > put this query out on the net and see what others have to say. If I am > going to have the tailwheel under cable/rudder control, I may just think > about having a fixed rudder/tailwheel single unit and use only one set of > bellcranks to operate them with the rudder bar. I did not plan on being > able to apply the brake to the tailwheel, just the main gear. Any > reaction from KR tailwheelers would be appreciated. > > Steve Robinson > On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:03:13 -0500 "Mark Langford" > writes: > > I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't think you'd have much > > control > > over the airplane while taxiing if the tailwheel was allowed to > > caster > > unchecked. Maybe you're thinking of using differential (separate) > > braking > > on the main wheels, but that's dangerous at high speed too. Wicks > > and > > Aircraft Spruce sell "breakaway" tailwheels that swivel freely after > > they > > are cranked around to 30 degrees or so to facilitate taxiing in > > close > > quarters, but I don't think you want one that just swivels wherever > > it wants > > to. Where would it be pointing when you land, and what would happen > > if it > > was at 90 degrees to travel? > > > > But like I said, I'm no tailwheel expert, so why not ask on KRNet? > > I guess > > originally I thought this was posted to KRnet and was going to leave > > it to > > somebody that knows what they are talking about... > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stephen J Robinson" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:34 AM > > Subject: Fw: Tail Wheel > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > Don't know if you got the original message, sent earlier in May, > > but > > > haven't gotten a response. Would appreciate hearing your thoughts > > on > > > this. > > > > > > Steve Robinson > > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Stephen J Robinson > > > To: langford@hiwaay.net > > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:06:21 -0400 > > > Subject: Tail Wheel > > > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > > > Well, I'm on my way down the KR footpath. Banana boat is being > > sanded > > > for Poxy Fil coat prior to piercing it for the fore and aft wing > > center > > > spars, which have been laminated with dihedral beginning at C/L > > of > > > fuselage. With a 38" wide fuselage at bottom, that leaves me with > > about > > > 20"+ on each side for the retractable landing gear my brother is > > > designing/building, with input from Don Betchan's original design. > > I > > > guess 6" tires is what will be used, but would like to go larger > > if I > > > can. > > > > > > My question is on the tailwheel. Plans call, as far as I can > > figure it, > > > for two bell cranks tied to the rudder bars, one is for the > > rudder, the > > > other is for the tailwheel. Is it possible/desirable to allow > > the > > > tailwheel to be free to rotate 360 degrees, with no connection to > > the > > > rudder bars? Or must I tie them in with the cabling which > > controls the > > > rudder via the rudder bars? Your thoughts and advice, please. > > > > > > Steve Robinson > > > Deerfield, NH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:44:25 +1000 To: "Daniel Heath" , From: "John and Janet Martindale" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Tail Wheel Message-ID: <000c01c20aeb$a25d21c0$aede12d2@m1g0x7> Hi Daniel Actually the pressures on mine with full fuel in the wings (100 ltr) and two people are quite heavy (still within Aussie CoG limits however. That is forward of 12" rear limit). I think the diameter of the wheel and horn/rudder pedal length are major variables. Mine are the stock RR. The tailwheel is only 4" diameter and solid rubber cast around bearings. The compression springs are the big buggers advertised in the AS&S catalog. The "leaf" spring that is deforming is only 1/8" thick as supplied by RR. It will need replacing with something stronger. What set up are you using?? Do you know your tailwheel weight at gross in taxi position? You're right about the learning bit...I'm causing laughs whenever I taxi...getting better though... and the tower calls me UFO1 rather than the registered VH-CLJ!! Regards John and Janet Martindale 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA ph: 61 2 66584767 ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Heath To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 11:12 PM Subject: RE: KR> Re: Tail Wheel > I don't see how you get the light tailwheel pressures of a KR to compress a > compression spring. I found just the opposite, it was just like having a > direct connect, which you do not want. The direct connect may be great for > taxiing, but I don't think you want that when landing your airplane. > > The lag in steering with tension springs is acceptable, if it is not too > much. This can be adjusted by the amount of tension the spring applies. > Then, you just have to learn how to do it. > > Daniel R. Heath > > See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org > > See our EAA Chapter 242 at: WWW.EAA242.ORG > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John and Janet Martindale [mailto:johnjane@chc.net.au] > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 12:31 AM > To: langford@hiwaay.net; Stephen J Robinson > Cc: KRnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> Re: Tail Wheel > > > Folks > > I have tried taxiing using a freely castoring tailwheel and differential > main brakes. I found it very difficult to control at anything above walking > pace. I then tried compression springs on the tailwheel connected to the > rudders cable per the plans and it was a lot better but I tended to > oversteer due to the lag in the springs relaying force to the tail wheel > horn. Finally I just used cables direct per the plans and am now happy. It > could be tricky to connect the tailwheel horns direct to the rudder because > the former must be allowed to move up and down as the tailspring flexes over > the bumps. You do not want any vertical movement relayed to the rudder > hinges. My tailwheel spring is now deforming (see earlier posts) and the > whole back end is now like the bloody engine cowlings....taking forever to > get worked out to my satisfaction!! > > See Ya > > John and Janet Martindale > 29 Jane Circuit > TOORMINA NSW 2452 > AUSTRALIA > > ph: 61 2 66584767 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Stephen J Robinson > To: > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 11:16 PM > Subject: KR> Re: Tail Wheel > > > > Mark, > > > > Thanks for your reply. What you said makes sense to me. But I will also > > put this query out on the net and see what others have to say. If I am > > going to have the tailwheel under cable/rudder control, I may just think > > about having a fixed rudder/tailwheel single unit and use only one set of > > bellcranks to operate them with the rudder bar. I did not plan on being > > able to apply the brake to the tailwheel, just the main gear. Any > > reaction from KR tailwheelers would be appreciated. > > > > Steve Robinson > > On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:03:13 -0500 "Mark Langford" > > writes: > > > I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't think you'd have much > > > control > > > over the airplane while taxiing if the tailwheel was allowed to > > > caster > > > unchecked. Maybe you're thinking of using differential (separate) > > > braking > > > on the main wheels, but that's dangerous at high speed too. Wicks > > > and > > > Aircraft Spruce sell "breakaway" tailwheels that swivel freely after > > > they > > > are cranked around to 30 degrees or so to facilitate taxiing in > > > close > > > quarters, but I don't think you want one that just swivels wherever > > > it wants > > > to. Where would it be pointing when you land, and what would happen > > > if it > > > was at 90 degrees to travel? > > > > > > But like I said, I'm no tailwheel expert, so why not ask on KRNet? > > > I guess > > > originally I thought this was posted to KRnet and was going to leave > > > it to > > > somebody that knows what they are talking about... > > > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > > see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Stephen J Robinson" > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:34 AM > > > Subject: Fw: Tail Wheel > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > Don't know if you got the original message, sent earlier in May, > > > but > > > > haven't gotten a response. Would appreciate hearing your thoughts > > > on > > > > this. > > > > > > > > Steve Robinson > > > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > From: Stephen J Robinson > > > > To: langford@hiwaay.net > > > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:06:21 -0400 > > > > Subject: Tail Wheel > > > > > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > > > > > Well, I'm on my way down the KR footpath. Banana boat is being > > > sanded > > > > for Poxy Fil coat prior to piercing it for the fore and aft wing > > > center > > > > spars, which have been laminated with dihedral beginning at C/L > > > of > > > > fuselage. With a 38" wide fuselage at bottom, that leaves me with > > > about > > > > 20"+ on each side for the retractable landing gear my brother is > > > > designing/building, with input from Don Betchan's original design. > > > I > > > > guess 6" tires is what will be used, but would like to go larger > > > if I > > > > can. > > > > > > > > My question is on the tailwheel. Plans call, as far as I can > > > figure it, > > > > for two bell cranks tied to the rudder bars, one is for the > > > rudder, the > > > > other is for the tailwheel. Is it possible/desirable to allow > > > the > > > > tailwheel to be free to rotate 360 degrees, with no connection to > > > the > > > > rudder bars? Or must I tie them in with the cabling which > > > controls the > > > > rudder via the rudder bars? Your thoughts and advice, please. > > > > > > > > Steve Robinson > > > > Deerfield, NH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:33:05 -0500 To: From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: Tailwheel Message-ID: <000c01c20b2d$69a8cfe0$38000a0a@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C20B03.30C63A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I built a Murphy Renegade two years ago, and am flying it when the = weatherman lets me. It has a tailwheel that is attached to the rudder = horns through two tension springs similar to those on the old-fashioned = porch swings. I found that it was important to have some tension on = this coupling: if it is too loose, the tailwheel will oscillate rapidly = from side to side. The result was some instability--especially during = tail touchdown on the landing roll--along with rudder pedal rumble like = anti-skid brakes do when you locked them up on gravel. =20 The tailwheel has a locking pin that provides positive control with the = rudder pedals up to 20 degrees of center. At 20 degrees, a cam releases = the tailwheel so that it can freely swivel. I've experience positive = control during takeoff and landing, and it swivels well when parking in = tight spots. I only need full rudder deflection, then a tap on the = brake, to make it swivel. Murphy Aircraft sells it as part of the Renegade kit as well as on their = other conventional gear aircraft. I don't know if they will sell is = separately for use on other aircraft. The fork/pivot casting has Murphy = on it, so they must have it made to their specification. =20 You can reach them at Murphy Aviation Ltd., 8880--C Young Road South, = Chilliwack, British Columbia V2P 4P5, Canada. Their phone is = 604.792.7006. They should be on the Internet, but I don't have their = e-mail address. If you want to discuss this further, you can reach me at = Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com. Jiim Vance ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C20B03.30C63A20-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:45:22 -0400 To: "Keith S Melvill" , From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: Re: KR> jerry cans at airports Message-ID: <006101c20a5d$46271d40$2bb45bd1@utboopki> Before refuelling from Jerry cans check with the airport operator to see if their insurance covers this! In the event you start a fire and burn up several other aircraft you may be in for some serious liability. Also the major source of income for small airports is fuel sales. All our leases preclude tenants going into competition with us. ie also selling fuel. It would be wise to check. That being said our airport commission condones the practice. Ex airport commissioner. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith S Melvill" To: Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 8:19 PM Subject: RE: KR> jerry cans at airports > > Rick Said > Hi, You can use the hand operated type pumps like is > used to refuel tractors in the field. > > > Hi Guys, > I have also seen small pumps like mentioned above that are operated by a > hand drill. That and your cordless drill, you're on your way. I have > no idea how much they cost but they can't be much. > > Keith > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:08:58 -0400 To: "Rick Wilson" , From: "w.g. kirkland" Subject: Re: KR> jerry cans ground? Message-ID: <009a01c20a60$91c76fe0$2bb45bd1@utboopki> All hoses used to refuel planes or cars have a grounding cable built in but grounding the airplane is an added precaution. More than one bushplane has caught fire while refueling from drums . I personally know of a mechanic who was severely burned and the bell 206 destroyed because proper precautions weren't taken. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Wilson" To: Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 9:08 AM Subject: KR> jerry cans ground? > I know the possibility of an electrical spark is very > present when refueling, why not be just as concerned > every time you pump gas into your car? Rick Wilson. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:28:55 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Kerry Miller Subject: Jerry Cans and Static Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020602132855.007abde0@pop3.ticnet.com> Virg is right, guys. You need to revise your thinking about what is a conductor and what is an insulator when you're talking about several thousand volts. We had a guy in a local EAA chapter barely survive the burns he got by hauling gas in plastic cans in the back of the truck to the plant. He was pumping gas from the pump into the cans, but wasn't letting the gas pump handle touch the plastic can (which he left sitting in the bed of the truck, not on the ground). He stopped fueling, then apparently got a spark when he tapped it against the plastic can's filler neck to get the last few drops out so they wouldn't spill on the truck. I guess that's why they say it's a good idea to put the can's on the ground to fill them up and not to leave them in the back of the car/truck. Kerry Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:40:02 -0400 To: rwdw2002@yahoo.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> jerry cans-ground? Message-ID: <20020601.224225.-489765.3.virgnvs@juno.com> Fuel flow WILL create STATIC electricty. Plastic & Fibreglass not withstanding! Clip to the plastic can and the filler point. To the tye down point as well if there is a rod into the ground. Do it and not need it or do not do it and someday find out that you did need it, Virg On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Rick Wilson writes: > I wouldn't think there would be much chance of a spark > being discharged from a plastic can going into a > fiberglass tank, with a hand pump doing the pumping. > Even static electricity has to have a conductor to > jump to or from and plastic or fiberglass does not > conduct electricity. Rick Wilson. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 15:56:56 -0400 To: Kenneth L Wiltrout , krnet@mailinglists.org From: lounsbur@midmaine.com Subject: Re: KR> Oil temps Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.20020602155656.00a9cd40@pop3.norton.antivirus> Kenny what king of oil temp gauges are you using in you KR? If you are using westach or wesburg they are calibrated based on a 70degree cockpit temp.If it is 80 degree in your cockpit and your gauge is indicating 200degrees oil temp your true temp would be 190. The same works in reverse,if your cockpit temp was 60 you would have to subtract 10 degrees from your indicated oil tem on the gauge. I use 15/50 mobil 1 in my revmaster and the temps will indicate 190 in cruise on a 80 degree day, I hope this helps. Kip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:13:15 +0200 To: , "Kenneth L Wiltrout" , From: "JC Marais" Subject: Re: KR> Oil temps Message-ID: <00b701c20a71$ef2cd470$01c6ef9b@jc> Hi Kip, Wow, this is new. I was under the impression (because I never actually thought about it) that environmental temp would not have an effect on it. Must admit, it makes sence the way you put it. Would it help to have the cable insulated? Thanks for all the bits and pieces you guys hand out here. JC Marais South Africa jcmarais@intekom.co.za Tel: (+27)12 - 660-1463 (H) (+27)12 - 350-1587 (W) Cell phone : 082-401-5259 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Kenneth L Wiltrout" ; Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 9:56 PM Subject: Re: KR> Oil temps > Kenny what king of oil temp gauges are you using in you KR? If you are > using westach or wesburg they are calibrated based on a 70degree cockpit > temp.If it is 80 degree in your cockpit and your gauge is indicating > 200degrees oil temp your true temp would be 190. The same works in > reverse,if your cockpit temp was 60 you would have to subtract 10 degrees > from your indicated oil tem on the gauge. I use 15/50 mobil 1 in my > revmaster and the temps will indicate 190 in cruise on a 80 degree day, I > hope this helps. Kip > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:35:08 -0500 To: , "Kenneth L Wiltrout" , From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Oil temps Message-ID: <00cc01c20a74$fc566640$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> If the temp is 60, shouldn't that be you would have to add 10 degrees... Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Kenneth L Wiltrout" ; Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 2:56 PM Subject: Re: KR> Oil temps > Kenny what king of oil temp gauges are you using in you KR? If you are > using westach or wesburg they are calibrated based on a 70degree cockpit > temp.If it is 80 degree in your cockpit and your gauge is indicating > 200degrees oil temp your true temp would be 190. The same works in > reverse,if your cockpit temp was 60 you would have to subtract 10 degrees > from your indicated oil tem on the gauge. I use 15/50 mobil 1 in my > revmaster and the temps will indicate 190 in cruise on a 80 degree day, I > hope this helps. Kip > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 21:23:47 -0400 To: "Mark Jones" , "Kenneth L Wiltrout" , From: lounsbur@midmaine.com Subject: Re: KR> Oil temps Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.20020602212347.00a98144@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 03:35 PM 06/02/2002 -0500, Mark Jones wrote: >If the temp is 60, shouldn't that be you would have to add 10 degrees... > >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Wales, WI USA >E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com >Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at >http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > You are right Mark I guess i should proof read more Kip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 17:58:11 -0500 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: N49TW Message-ID: <00df01c20a88$f9c59220$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C20A5F.107A0C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, I found this KR-2 (N49TW) this weekend at a huge wholesale/flea market = just outside of Oshkosh. I looked at the N number on the registration = site and found it was built by Thomas West of Lafayette, TN but no year = was listed and it had been reported as sold. No engine or instruments = but it had a nice set of Diehl taildragger gear on it. I did not check = out the cost but intend to do so soon. Does anyone have any history on = this KR-2. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C20A5F.107A0C00-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:01:34 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: $ and hours Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C20A89.713521E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just caught up my builders log and discovered I have just over 600 hours = and $6000 in thr KR so far. That is about $10 per hour to have all this f= un. Wonder how much it will cost to fly it. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC. ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C20A89.713521E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:08:40 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: refuling and grounding Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C20A8A.6EE59720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know the proper way to ground a plastic can, but in the Army when= refueling aircraft from a truck, pump or bladder, the proper procedure w= as to ground from source to ground, source to aircraft, and aircraft to g= round. The military takes grounding very seriously for very good reasons. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.geocities.com/kr2cooper/ Fayetteville, NC. ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C20A8A.6EE59720-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:12:09 +0200 To: "Darren Pond" , From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: RE: KR> Jerry cans at airport Message-ID: Darren, I uses a lot of jerrycans to calibrate my fuel tank (by the way, jerrycans are called like that because the design was stolen from the Nazis (Jerry's cans). Funny, isn't it?). What I did was put a rubber mat on the top of the aircraft, then put the jerrycan there, then use a nifty automatic syphon. Now, if I had to refuel from jerrycans all the time, I would go to a scrapyard, buy a car fuel pump, and make a rig. Serge VIDAL Kr2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa -----Original Message----- From: Darren Pond [mailto:pond27@rogers.com] Sent: 02 June, 2002 4:18 AM To: krnet Subject: KR> Jerry cans at airport HI All What are you the rest of you using to get the fuel from 6 gallon jerry cans to header tanks? This pouring to a funnel in the wind idea is not the best although it seems to be accepted at our EAA chapter. Darren ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:55:59 -0400 To: "John Esch" , "Rick Wilson" , "krnet" From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> It is great serving the public Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C20AFE.0242D320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Thanks for the pictures and thanks for your service. I saw the rescue on = CNN in the afternoon then as the 11:00 o'clock news came on the headline = was rescuers had to be rescued. I knew something had gone wrong, and I wa= tched the video of the Blackhawk going out of control and tumbeling down = the mountain side. I'm glad all crewmembers survived the crash and wish t= hem speedy recovery from any injuries. If I were going to crash and could= choose the aircraft to crash in it would be a Blackhawk. =20 Jack Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: John Esch Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 12:40 AM To: Rick Wilson; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> It is great serving the public http://www.katu.com/pages/gallery/index.html I know it is not Friday, but I do not know what day it is due to working = so much. Check the above link. I have to toot my horn. The unit I belong with did the majority of the mission of rescuing the downed climbers. Woo Hoo it feels great to help out. John Esch 1042 Medical Company (Air Ambulance) Salem, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Wilson" To: Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:13 PM Subject: KR> jerry cans at airports > Hi, You can use the hand operated type pumps like is > used to refuel tractors in the field. They have a pipe > that goes down into a can or five gallon bucket and a > handle that operates the pump manually. The nozzle is > about 1 1/2" dia. They can be found at any tractor > supply or equipment supply store. I believe the last > one I bought was about $25.00. Something to think > about, Rick Wilson. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ > and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ and at http://www.bouyea.net/ for the older ones ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C20AFE.0242D320-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:04:21 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: WAF locations Message-ID: <001d01c20b29$17ed7d80$799131cc@cyou.com> ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C20AFF.2DA63240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Question. The plans show 1 1/2" between the center and outer front spars = but nothing for rear spars. Looking at the plans it looks like the bend = in the WAF at the end of the spar. Does this leave enough room to = install/remove the attach bolts? Thanks, Ed Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, Florida ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C20AFF.2DA63240-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:18:18 -0400 To: From: "Audrey and Harold Woods" Subject: static electricity and gas tanks. Message-ID: <003201c20b3b$cd462ee0$b0046418@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C20B1A.45BF10C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check the EAA back pages. There are several horror stories about = gasoline in plasctic 5 gallong containers. One man drove to his plane = with his station wagon 10 gallons of gas sloshing in the plastic cans. = As he opened the can on the back of the wagon in preparation to fueling = his plane, static electricity ignited the gas. It blew flaming gas at = him. He suffered severe burns, the station wagon was destroyed. The = plane was not damaged. Another case a man filling his low wing plane from a plastic can in the = winter. He was pouring into a plastic funnel . He looked into the = funnel and saw dancing lights all over the surface of the gas and the = funnel. There was no fire. He never did this again. =20 There must be a ground strap hanging inside the gas can. It must be = connected to the ground on the plane. Let the filler beware. Harold Woods. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/02 ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C20B1A.45BF10C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:38:17 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: grounding jerry cans Message-ID: <20020603223817.8434.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com> Ok, I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong. Static electricity can build up in plastic cans and cause a spark. I feel really bad though, this is the first time I've ever made a mistake.(yeah,right.) Thanks, Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:22:35 -0400 To: From: Subject: Belly boards Message-ID: <000c01c20bd3$460171e0$a3851442@h1x1g0> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C20BB1.BE72B2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looking for some info on installing a bellyboard into my KR2S - Want it = simple and functional. Can I use Flap handle assy (Palmer's Kr stuff?) = Thanks to TET for my airfoils. Getting ready to install rear spar = (after cutting it out) and order new wood for stabilizer. My Carbon = Fiber seats are almost finished - very light and easy to install - Has = anyone filled in spaces between wood structure with foam and then = fiberglassed over on the interior - say from the seat back area to the = firewall? Is the weight worth the extra strength in case of accident? = BILL ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C20BB1.BE72B2A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:39:36 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: elevator trim Message-ID: <20020604043936.95092.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com> Jeff, I'll try and get some pictures as soon as I can and send them to you. Actually there's not much of a bulge and there is a small aluminum cover plate over the servo. I bought the kr2 already built, so I don't know all the particulars of how it was installed. I will get some pictures with the plate removed as soon as possible. Maybe they will be of some help. Best Regards, Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:24:58 -0500 To: From: "M&C" Subject: electric mirror control Message-ID: <001301c20bec$d6bb9440$54ae4ad1@matandcat> attention Jerry and the bee chasers: I did the same thing, got my hacksaw out and split the 2 two bidirectional outputs in half. I then wrapped some tape around the two to hold them together. I'm planing to put one in the elevator it's self. I hooked them to a battery with a longer (bolt/jackscrew). It seamed to have plenty of power. Mike turner ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************