From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 6 Jul 2002 10:55:09 -0000 Issue 469 Date: Saturday, July 06, 2002 3:55 AM krnet Digest 6 Jul 2002 10:55:09 -0000 Issue 469 Topics (messages 11282 through 11303): One piece wings 11282 by: Ronald Freiberger Re: WAF's 11283 by: NORM-RUTH 11284 by: Phillip Matheson 11286 by: Bob Farmer 11289 by: Donald Reid 11290 by: Dale Baldwin 11292 by: Frank Ross 11293 by: Rick Wilson 11294 by: Ronald Freiberger 11295 by: Glasco Subaru FAQ website 11285 by: Frank Ross Re: Chris Gardiner's KR2S in Kitplanes 11287 by: Bruce S. Campbell Water, water everywhere 11288 by: JIM VANCE Strobes for Sale 11291 by: Daniel Heath Spare WAF's 11296 by: Phillip Matheson 11298 by: Phillip Matheson nose gear assy. 11297 by: Rick Wilson 11301 by: Rick Wilson Re: ground adjustable wood prop 11299 by: Robert X. Cringely Friday pics. 11300 by: Dana Overall News letter 11302 by: M&C New Server 11303 by: Dana Overall Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:55:34 -0400 To: "KRNET" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: One piece wings Message-ID: For those of you wanting to avoid WAF's, take a look at the Jodel designs. That works well, but a one piece wing can get to be a chore. Basically, you get a centersection with controls, seat bottoms,and a really hard to handle item. But, it's yet another way to build an airplane. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:25:39 -0700 To: From: "NORM-RUTH" Subject: Fw: KR> Re: WAF's Message-ID: <005301c22323$a0b46680$10c53a41@pavilion> This would require a laminated spar. LOTS of work. You might check the Falco, Corby Starlite and Emeraude, among others. The KR works and has many advantages. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glasco" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:21 PM Subject: Re: KR> Re: WAF's > Nice concept. > Where are you going to get capstrips that long? > How are you going to build in the dihedrial? > Are you going to put both dihedrial and forward taper in the rear spar? > > I think you are going to have to look at a laminated or composite spar to > get there. If you have another way to build a one piece spar please > explain. I have not yet built my spar and have a design for attaching the > wing (it involves cutting the lower longerons) which will allow me to use a > one piece main and rear spar. At this time that is the way I intend to go > unless I run into an insurmountable obstacle. > > Brad Glasco > KR-2S Corvair > > > At 11:19 AM 7/3/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Why not a one piece spar & make the fuselage detachable for transporting. I > >think the Quickie was built this way. Has anyone done this to a KR? > > > >Bob Farmer > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "ace nunye" > >> > >> I may as well put my two cents in, "IF" I were to build another plane and > >I > >> had a large enough work area I would most definately build a one piece > >spar > >> like one I saw on the net here I think the guy's name is Lynn H. This, in > >my > >> opinion is THE way to build spars. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:34:14 +1000 To: "krnet listing" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Re: WAF's Message-ID: <003201c22314$124009e0$0100a8c0@barry> What would be wrong with placing a strip of 4130 from the top to the bottom of WAF on each end spar bolt, this would save making a single sheet WAF and also stop the possibility of the spar spreading apart. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au ----- Original Message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:04:16 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Bob Farmer" Subject: Re: KR> Re: WAF's Message-ID: <001601c22329$03a261c0$a94562d8@oemcomputer> A bad use of words. I meant a one piece wing. Just a thought outside the box. Bob Farmer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glasco" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 9:21 PM Subject: Re: KR> Re: WAF's > Nice concept. > Where are you going to get capstrips that long? > How are you going to build in the dihedrial? > Are you going to put both dihedrial and forward taper in the rear spar? > > I think you are going to have to look at a laminated or composite spar to > get there. If you have another way to build a one piece spar please > explain. I have not yet built my spar and have a design for attaching the > wing (it involves cutting the lower longerons) which will allow me to use a > one piece main and rear spar. At this time that is the way I intend to go > unless I run into an insurmountable obstacle. > > Brad Glasco > KR-2S Corvair > > > At 11:19 AM 7/3/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Why not a one piece spar & make the fuselage detachable for transporting. I > >think the Quickie was built this way. Has anyone done this to a KR? > > > >Bob Farmer > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "ace nunye" > >> > >> I may as well put my two cents in, "IF" I were to build another plane and > >I > >> had a large enough work area I would most definately build a one piece > >spar > >> like one I saw on the net here I think the guy's name is Lynn H. This, in > >my > >> opinion is THE way to build spars. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 08:45:10 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Re: WAF's Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020704082410.00a3b770@pop.erols.com> --=====================_2702218==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:34 PM 7/4/2002 +1000, you wrote: >What would be wrong with placing a strip of 4130 from the top to the bottom >of WAF on each end spar bolt, this would save making a single sheet WAF and >also stop the possibility of the spar spreading apart. There is absolutely no need to tie the WAF's together in this manner, nor is there any need to make a one piece WAF that is tied to both the upper and lower spar cap. A spar of this type will NEVER spread apart. I tried to write a brief description of why this is not a problem but it just requires too much detail, graphs, and background knowledge on structures. You don't need it and a design like this can lead to other problems. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org --=====================_2702218==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 08:55:03 -0400 To: "Bob Farmer" , "krnet" From: "Dale Baldwin" Subject: Re: KR> Re: WAF's Message-ID: <000201c2235a$98a3dde0$82e85b0c@computername> My stock KR-2 was transported to the airport with the wings attached and the firewall cleaned off. The tail was supported at a 30 deg. attitude (legal, ?) but I didn't have to ask for forgiveness. I vote for the one piece spar and save the weight and expense of WAF. Dale Baldwin, KR-2, ATL > Why not a one piece spar & make the fuselage detachable for transporting. I > think the Quickie was built this way. Has anyone done this to a KR? > > Bob Farmer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ace nunye" > > > > I may as well put my two cents in, "IF" I were to build another plane and > I > > had a large enough work area I would most definately build a one piece > spar > > like one I saw on the net here I think the guy's name is Lynn H. This, in > my > > opinion is THE way to build spars. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 06:41:11 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet From: Frank Ross Subject: KR> Re: WAF's Message-ID: <20020704134111.70096.qmail@web21502.mail.yahoo.com> The WAR Replicas were roughly based on the KR design, but used a lot of beefed-up stuff, including one-piece wings. Made them a lot heavier, requiring them to abandon the VW engines. Fixing something that ain't broke can lead to a lot of more serious problems. I'm not an engineer and I do believe Don Reid. I am still building per plans because I don't have the expertise to change them as I believe Don and others have. I will not PURPOSELY do things (while flying) that take the plane outside it's limits, just as I would not take a 172 or a Cherokee outside it's limits. The KR is a very good design or we wouldn't be having this discussion. There's always room for improvement or we wouldn't be building KR-2s and KR-2Ss. Like many others, I've looked at the one-piece wing and decided it just isn't worth it. But, I do that knowing the limits of the three-piece wing too. Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 07:21:51 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: waf's Message-ID: <20020704142151.3990.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I once had a WAR 1/2 scale corsair, the spars were bolted on the same way the kr2 is. If I remember correctly, The waf's were very similar. The outer spars were covered front and back with a plywood web. Just thought I'd mention it as I've never heard of a WAR replica or a kr shedding it's wings. Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:34:16 -0400 To: "Phillip Matheson" , "krnet listing" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> Re: WAF's Message-ID: Has a problem of WAF spreading been seen? Why fix a non-problem? Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 12:41:31 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Glasco Subject: Re: KR> Re: WAF's Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020704124131.007ced30@mail.ridgenet.net> Bob, I was not critical of your message or use of words, just agreeing with the concept and expressing some of the questions I am trying to answer. I am trying to design a one piece wing exactly as suggested to eliminate the WAF and allow for a higher gross weight. First problem was a one piece main spar and how to attach it and still have the wing removable. I have that solved but am still working composite spar strength and assembly jig measurement details. So far I have determined that the main spar will be layed up in three pieces in my garage and then permanently joined for the one piece wing with the dihedrial set at, within, the fuselage. I considered building the capstrips with S-Glass but have settled on Carbonfiber with S-Glass webs, a built up spar of course. It is going to take me some time to make samples and test them to determine how many layers are required for both the upper and lower capstrip. By the way this is not the way to go if you are in a hurry to finish your airplane. I will report and put up a website when I finsh testing samples and have enough data to make it worthwhile but don't expect to see it for a while yet. Right now my plate is a bit full with other activities. Brad Glasco KR-2S Corvair At 03:04 AM 7/4/02 -0400, you wrote: >A bad use of words. I meant a one piece wing. Just a thought outside the >box. > >Bob Farmer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:20:27 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet From: Frank Ross Subject: Subaru FAQ website Message-ID: <20020704052027.26509.qmail@web21509.mail.yahoo.com> Found a Subaru FAQ website at: http://www.interstice.com/~kevinh/soobfaq.html for those who might be interested. Frank (slosh) Ross in (slosh) San Antonio (blub, blub) Texas (Texas is a Commanche word for 'sudden unexpected wetness of biblical proportions', loosely translated) It's supposed to stop raining tomorrow, right after it's too late to have fireworks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 18:01:33 -0400 To: Frank Ross From: "Bruce S. Campbell" CC: krnet Subject: Re: KR> Chris Gardiner's KR2S in Kitplanes Message-ID: <3D23743D.72870A37@gte.net> Sorry about the pick-up Frank ;o) Bruce S. Campbell Tampa Frank Ross wrote: > where we are sitting on the roof-tops with our horses > watching the flood waters carry away our pick up > trucks and wives. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 06:17:03 -0500 To: "kr net" From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: Water, water everywhere Message-ID: <003101c2234c$8bfa0460$35000a0a@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C22322.6A34CA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank-- The truck can be replaced by the insurance company. The really = important question is, did you build your KR on floats? Please send some (not all!!) of your rain to Kansas. It's so dry here = that I have had two trees fighting over the same dog. Jim Vance ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C22322.6A34CA60-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:34:45 -0700 To: "Krnet@Mailinglists.Org" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Strobes for Sale Message-ID: Jerry and I have a really nice set of Whelen Strobes for sale. Never been used. Taken out of the box to take pictures for you to see on our site. Go to kr-builder.org and see them on the home page. Reply if you are interested. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 07:04:57 +1000 To: "KR Net Listings" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Spare WAF's Message-ID: <003101c2239e$95d27d80$0697dccb@Matheson> ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C223F2.459BEE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have finished my new WAK's, they look good. There was a mixup when the 125 4130 was ordered, so I have much more = than I need, I would be willing to make a few sets of WAF, as per plans. = We know they are very expensive to buy, $600 to $700 Aust. If you are interested contact me off the KRnet Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C223F2.459BEE60-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 15:47:38 +1000 To: "krnet listing" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Spare WAF's Message-ID: <001801c223e7$7c2aea40$0100a8c0@barry> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2243B.4AA9AF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have finished making my WAF's. They turned out "beautiful" Due to a mix up in the ordering of the 125 4130, I have enough 4130 to = make a few extra WAF's as per the plans. If you do not have the equipment or unable to make your own contact me = off the KRnet, if you are interested. We know how expensive it is to buy them, ?? $300 to $400 US or $600 to = $700 Aust. from the states. Phil Matheson Australia. matheson@dodo.com.au ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2243B.4AA9AF20-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:52:02 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: nose gear assy. Message-ID: <20020704225202.83865.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, My kr2 was already built when I bought it and has tricycle landing gear. The nose gear strut is run all the way back to the front spar, where it is attached by the same bolts that mount the control stick assembly. It then goes through the floor behind the firewall and is braced by a V-shaped brace to the firewall at the engine mount attach points. Does anyone know if this is ok, or does anyone know of any problems that this setup may cause? Has anyone else ever installed theirs this way? and if so did it work out ok? I would like to buy a nose gear strut like the diehl gear if anyone has one for sale reasonable. Thanks, Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 15:05:53 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: nose gear assy. Message-ID: <20020705220553.80368.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Larry, This is also the way I have been thinking, but I wanted to get another view from someone else. You're right about the extra weight also. That's why I'd like to just change to the diehl gear or something similar. The nose gear being like it is and with oleo struts the weight saved by changing the whole setup could possibly be 30-40 lbs, Thanks for the input, Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 01:45:52 -0700 To: Rick Wilson , KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: "Robert X. Cringely" Subject: Re: KR> ground adjustable wood prop Message-Id: DON'T BUY IT!!! Bernie Warnke stopped making those props years ago because of hub failures. I started using one on my KR-1 back in 1977 and removed it around 1981 on Bernie's advice. He tried to get them all removed from service. The problem was the wooden hub that failed occasionally. There was no way to do testing on the hub, so it was better to just pull all the props from the market. A metal hub might have worked, but Bernie moved on to other things. My Warnke ground adjustable is now on the wall. The idea was great and I never had any problems, but you can't rely on that. Bob At 5:39 PM -0700 7/3/02, Rick Wilson wrote: >Hi, There is a Warnke ground adjustable wood prop for >sale on ebay. The description says it is 52" and fully >ground adjustable for experimental aircraft. It is >listed in the aviation category under "engines". Ebay >item #1840659502. Just thought someone might be >interested in it, I saw the picture and it looked to >be in good condition. Thanks, Rick Wilson. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free >http://sbc.yahoo.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 08:36:49 -0400 To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Friday pics. Message-ID: I've spent the last week working on my two fuel tanks. It's kinda like KR work because I am to constantly cleaning my tools and waiting for stuff to dry. Thought this might be something the KR crowd could use. My fuel gauge system has no moving parts. It is a capacitive guage system that uses an outboard plate and an inboard plate attached to each other by wire and then to a BNC connection on the very inboard rib. These plates are isolated from the rest of the tank. A capacitance converter installs between the tank and the gauge. It simply measures the capacitance of the plates based on the level of the fuel. There's nothing to ground except the black wire coming out of the mating half of the gauge side BNC. The parts needed for a KR tank can be found on Van's website. They are very cheaply priced. Everything you would need is in the hardware bag. The items needed would be: 4 T-813 capacative guage plates 1 Bag 994-2 capacitive probe hardware You can see my install in the following pics. http://rvflying.tripod.com/frtank1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/frtank2.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/frtank4.jpg The black goop is the Pro-Seal. Definitely has a mind of it's own and will jump great distance to attach to anything in arms reach:-), including chest hairs (it was hot in the shop:-). You don't worry about the looks of it, this is an area where more is better. Have a great holiday weekend, Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 20:12:39 -0500 To: From: "M&C" Subject: News letter Message-ID: <004e01c2248a$3a147060$46ae4ad1@matandcat> Larry, congrads on the news letter. Please sign me up for the cd and the subscription for the news letter, thanks. Mike Turner kr2s ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 06:54:59 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: New Server Message-ID: Gang, I am on the RV list using Matts hardware. It is an extremely fast list and with a great search and archive section. As Matt said, even if you don't have a website and want to post a picture, you just post it to the photoshare section and everyone on the list gets message that so&so has posted a new pic. It seems Matt is truly dedicated to the aviation community and runs a very nice list. Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com >From: "M&C" >To: >Subject: KR> News letter >Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 20:12:39 -0500 > >Larry, congrads on the news letter. Please sign me up for the cd and the >subscription for the news letter, thanks. > Mike >Turner kr2s > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files Dana Overall Richmond, KY 7 Emp. wings ordered http://63.69.213.180/newtech/danas_airplane_factory/project.html do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************