From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 8 Jul 2002 01:56:22 -0000 Issue 470 Date: Sunday, July 07, 2002 6:56 PM krnet Digest 8 Jul 2002 01:56:22 -0000 Issue 470 Topics (messages 11304 through 11333): Re: KRNet-List: New KRNet Email List Server... 11304 by: Mark Langford 11305 by: Daniel Heath 11307 by: B Wunder new housting 11306 by: LewisAZ Re: primer 11308 by: TONY SOLDANO 11312 by: WA7YXF.aol.com 11316 by: virgnvs.juno.com 11317 by: Daniel Heath New List Server 11309 by: Mark Jones 11310 by: Ronald Freiberger 11311 by: Frank Ross 11314 by: Larry A. Capps 11315 by: bstarrs new server 11313 by: Rick Wilson WAF Design (Long Post) 11318 by: Donald Reid 11325 by: Phillip Matheson 11329 by: Robert Stone Re: fly in 11319 by: terry marion ks KR LIST CONFUSION (Please READ) 11320 by: Frank Ross 11321 by: Mark Langford Matronics NOT 11322 by: Ronald Freiberger control stops 11323 by: Rick Wilson 11324 by: larry flesner 11326 by: Phillip Matheson 11330 by: larry flesner speed 11327 by: The Waldrens 11331 by: virgnvs.juno.com 11333 by: Mark Langford Re: WAF Design Sorry Typo 11328 by: Phillip Matheson Matronics Scavenger 11332 by: Rick Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 07:23:05 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KRNet-List: New KRNet Email List Server... Message-ID: <0c3801c224e7$e224c0e0$7600a8c0@athlon600> KRnetHeads, Last night we received a message from Matt Dralle saying that he had a new KRnet list set up, and explaining how to subscribe, the advantages of his system, etc. I must say that this was almost as much a surprise to me as it was to you! Way back in March when we were still having problems receiving attachements through KRnet I was contemplating moving the LIST iteself to another email server to protect us against viruses. Several folks recommended matronics.com as a good one, so I contacted Matt about hosting the list. My intent was not to give up my responsibilities as the KRnet administrator (it's not that much work anyway), but to merely find a new listserver on which to host it. After intial contact, I didn't hear back from Matt for several weeks, and had to remind him several times to get the list going. The last time I heard from him was about a month ago about the archives, and I told him that Larry Capps had just created one that worked great and went all the way back to day one, so it wouldn't be necessary for him to do that. That's the last time we corresponded, so you see why I'm doing the "deer in the headlights" thing along with the rest of you! Let's just hold off resubscribing, or unsubscribing, or anything else at the moment while I get back with Matt about how (and IF) this is going to work. For example, we already have an FAQ, a killer search engine, and a web page at www.krnet.org , so all we really need is mail hosting, and the picture posting feature, from my viewpoint, with pointers to the other sites from his. And to tell you the truth, the list has been running so good lately that I'm a little reluctant to change it at all. I haven't subscribed to the new list yet, if that gives you a clue. The subject is certainly open for discussion though... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:47:06 -0700 To: "KRnet" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Re: KRNet-List: New KRNet Email List Server... Message-ID: Thanks, Mark. I was waiting to hear from you before doing anything. I also think that the Net is working very good now and was wondering why we were considering changing it. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 5:23 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Re: KRNet-List: New KRNet Email List Server... Importance: High KRnetHeads, Last night we received a message from Matt Dralle saying that he had a new KRnet list set up, and explaining how to subscribe, the advantages of his system, etc. I must say that this was almost as much a surprise to me as it was to you! Way back in March when we were still having problems receiving attachements through KRnet I was contemplating moving the LIST iteself to another email server to protect us against viruses. Several folks recommended matronics.com as a good one, so I contacted Matt about hosting the list. My intent was not to give up my responsibilities as the KRnet administrator (it's not that much work anyway), but to merely find a new listserver on which to host it. After intial contact, I didn't hear back from Matt for several weeks, and had to remind him several times to get the list going. The last time I heard from him was about a month ago about the archives, and I told him that Larry Capps had just created one that worked great and went all the way back to day one, so it wouldn't be necessary for him to do that. That's the last time we corresponded, so you see why I'm doing the "deer in the headlights" thing along with the rest of you! Let's just hold off resubscribing, or unsubscribing, or anything else at the moment while I get back with Matt about how (and IF) this is going to work. For example, we already have an FAQ, a killer search engine, and a web page at www.krnet.org , so all we really need is mail hosting, and the picture posting feature, from my viewpoint, with pointers to the other sites from his. And to tell you the truth, the list has been running so good lately that I'm a little reluctant to change it at all. I haven't subscribed to the new list yet, if that gives you a clue. The subject is certainly open for discussion though... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 15:46:45 -0400 To: "KRnet" From: "B Wunder" Subject: Re: KR> Re: KRNet-List: New KRNet Email List Server... Message-ID: <003e01c22525$dd142da0$eae5150a@oemcomputer> Mark, I agree with you ..the net has been working really well and the search engine that is now available is great. I asked Matt about the $20-$30/year fee and below is his response. I would vote to continue with the status quo for right now. r/one satisified customer. Bernie KR2S builder, Lexington Park, MD ++++++++++++++++++++++ From Matt's e-mail to me: "Well, I wish it worked out like that. The reality is that only a small percentage of the members ever contribute. Generally enough to cover the bills and make it worth it, but certainly nothing to write home about. And did I mention no ads? I could make a heck of a lot more money selling pop-up ad space with a web server that gets over 7 million hits year and processes roughly 50 million email messages per year. A fund raiser just seems more friendly and a lot less annoying. Matt At 08:16 PM 7/5/2002 Friday, you wrote: >Hi Matt, >Is that $20-$30 a one time fee? It appears to be yearly and if there are >400-600 subscribers, that is a lot of money a year ($8,000-18,000!) to run a >mail list. >r/Bernie >Lexington Park, MD >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Matt Dralle" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 9:28 PM >Subject: KRNet-List: New KRNet Email List Server... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 8:23 AM Subject: KR> Re: KRNet-List: New KRNet Email List Server... > KRnetHeads, > > Last night we received a message from Matt Dralle saying that he had a new > KRnet list set up, and explaining how to subscribe, the advantages of his > system, etc. I must say that this was almost as much a surprise to me as it > was to you! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 07:13:33 -0700 To: From: "LewisAZ" Subject: new housting Message-ID: <000a01c224f7$51b47c20$06798144@net> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C224BC.A3780A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Apachegold.net is a new server that can do the hosting for you, check it = out. I've been using them for awhile now, and it seem = ok.http://www.apachegold.net=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C224BC.A3780A80-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:31:07 -0400 To: "B Wunder" , "KRnet" From: "TONY SOLDANO" Subject: Re: KR>primer Message-ID: <000701c2252c$0fed64c0$88c9d03f@compaq> have any of you guys ever used regular gray automotive primer on your kr? if so did you spray it on or did you roll it. thanks tony ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:18:47 EDT To: tonysoldano@prodigy.net, bwunder@mris.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: WA7YXF@aol.com Subject: Re: KR>primer Message-ID: <1a9.4af1d65.2a58b8b7@aol.com> You can use anything you want. Its hard to beat smooth prime though and it comes with UV protection. Lynn N37LH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 20:40:55 -0400 To: tonysoldano@prodigy.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: bwunder@mris.com, krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR>primer Message-ID: <20020706.205111.-376261.5.virgnvs@juno.com> Kind of heavy isn't it ? Virg On Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:31:07 -0400 "TONY SOLDANO" writes: > have any of you guys ever used regular gray automotive primer on your > kr? if > so did you spray it on or did you roll it. > > > thanks tony > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 05:45:39 -0700 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR>primer Message-ID: I used Dupont Fill'n'Sand on the Little Beast with a spray gun. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG -----Original Message----- From: virgnvs@juno.com [mailto:virgnvs@juno.com] Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 5:41 PM To: tonysoldano@prodigy.net Cc: bwunder@mris.com; krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR>primer Kind of heavy isn't it ? Virg On Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:31:07 -0400 "TONY SOLDANO" writes: > have any of you guys ever used regular gray automotive primer on your > kr? if > so did you spray it on or did you roll it. > > > thanks tony > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:14:14 -0500 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: New List Server Message-ID: <007601c22532$150f1e20$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C22508.2C06BB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I VOTE NO....keep it like it is now. The only benefit this server has = that we do not already have is photo attachment site and we can surely = come up with our own. Mark Langford has done an excellent job and should = be commended for maintaining the KR Net and it should be left that way. = Keep this all in the family! EVERYONE speak up now and let us know how = you feel about this issue. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C22508.2C06BB80-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:16:07 -0400 To: "Mark Jones" , "KR-Net" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> New List Server Message-ID: I subscribed to somematronics lits and was very confused with the responses. What we have works, stick with it. NO ATTACHMENTS. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Mark Jones [mailto:flykr2s@wi.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 5:14 PM To: KR-Net Subject: KR> New List Server I VOTE NO....keep it like it is now. The only benefit this server has that we do not already have is photo attachment site and we can surely come up with our own. Mark Langford has done an excellent job and should be commended for maintaining the KR Net and it should be left that way. Keep this all in the family! EVERYONE speak up now and let us know how you feel about this issue. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 14:18:00 -0700 (PDT) To: KR-Net From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> New List Server Message-ID: <20020706211800.2715.qmail@web21503.mail.yahoo.com> Keep what we have. Frank Ross on high ground in San Antonio, Texas --- Mark Jones wrote: > I VOTE NO....keep it like it is now. The only > benefit this server has that we do not already have > is photo attachment site and we can surely come up > with our own. Mark Langford has done an excellent > job and should be commended for maintaining the KR > Net and it should be left that way. Keep this all in > the family! EVERYONE speak up now and let us know > how you feel about this issue. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 16:57:07 -0500 To: "'KR-Net'" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: New List Server Message-ID: <001201c22538$12b0fb20$0600a8c0@schpankme> I VOTE NO....keep it like it is now Larry A. Capps KR Newsletter Naperville, IL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:42:45 -0700 To: From: "bstarrs" Subject: Fw: KR> New List Server Message-ID: <002001c2254f$36b26420$9200a8c0@bstarrs> RIGHT ! IF IT AINT BROKE DON'T TRY TO FIX IT. IT'S GREAT JUST THE WAY IT IS. Bill Starrs, Prescott, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR-Net" Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:14 PM Subject: KR> New List Server I VOTE NO....keep it like it is now. The only benefit this server has that we do not already have is photo attachment site and we can surely come up with our own. Mark Langford has done an excellent job and should be commended for maintaining the KR Net and it should be left that way. Keep this all in the family! EVERYONE speak up now and let us know how you feel about this issue. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 14:21:17 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: new server Message-ID: <20020706212117.40032.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com> Mark, I have only been a subscriber to the list for the past six months or so and can only speak for myself, but I vote to keep it as it is now, with you as the "leader". Thanks for the great job you do. In any case I'll go with whatever you decide to do. Thanks again, Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 09:36:32 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Donald Reid Subject: WAF Design (Long Post) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020707084241.00a34090@pop.erols.com> --=====================_3750848==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This is long-winded engineering geek stuff. A few years ago, I did some calculations on the wing attachment fittings for an article in the paper newsletter. I re-did them from scratch using a slightly different method and this is what I think about the KR wing spar. Assuming a stock KR,1000 pound gross weight, of which 150 pounds is wing. Also assuming 9.5 feet of cantilevered wing (how much is sticking out of one side of the fuselage. I used standard reference values of material strength and a semi-elliptic load distribution along the span length. Considering only the main spar, with no contribution of strength from either the rear spar or the wing skin, the spar will fail at approximately 5.1 G's. The failure will occur at the wing root. A real wing will be stronger than this, but I am keeping it simple. This is the good news, because the overall strength of the real wing will be on the order of 6 G's. The bad news is that if the builder makes a mistake in assembly of the wing attachment fittings, the wing will fail at approximately 3.95 G's. At 5.1 G's, the stress levels in the spar caps at the wing attachment fittings are approximately 11,300 pounds. This is 3110 pounds per square inch in the spar caps. This is well below the compressive limit of 4700 psi, which is good, BUT... . The bolts-to-wood interface that transfers the load from the spar cap to the wing attachment fitting and back to the spar cap is only good for approx 8800 pounds. The only thing that keeps the wing attached in this case is the friction between the wing attachment fittings and the wooden spar. In order to have the necessary minimum of 2500 pounds of friction, the clamping force must be on the order of 10,000 pounds. I say "on the order of" since there is guess work in figuring out the friction coefficient between the wood and the fittings. 10,000 pounds sounds like a lot, but it is really only 50-100 pounds per square inch per bolt. Again, this is good, but if the builder does not torque down his through bolts, the wing will be significantly weakened. This also means that seasonal changes that cause the wooden spar to shrink and swell can have the potential to reduce the strength of your wing. In the reference literature, I did not find any prohibition against this kind of design, but I think that it is not a sound engineering practice. I think that a primary fitting like this should be closer to "failure proof". When you build your plane, please make sure that you properly torque all of your bolts and check them at your annual. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org --=====================_3750848==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:17:15 +1000 To: "krnet listing" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> WAF Design (Long Post) Message-ID: <001001c22604$0f8515e0$0100a8c0@barry> Donald I can not find in my plans a torque for the WAF spar bolts, it says not to squash the would, so what does this mean??? Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:30:58 -0500 To: "KRNet" , "Phillip Matheson" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> WAF Design (Long Post) Message-ID: <002c01c22605$f75aa500$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> Phillip: Just tighten the lock nuts until you see the wood start to compress then stop, that's enough. If your WAF were made properly and you are using aircraft quality 3/16th bolts, washers, and lock nuts be assured, your assembly will not fail under normal flight conditions. Most builders drill to 5/32nds and them ream to a tight fit. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "krnet listing" Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 5:17 PM Subject: Re: KR> WAF Design (Long Post) > Donald > I can not find in my plans a torque for the WAF spar bolts, it says not to > squash the would, so what does this mean??? > > Phil Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.au > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 09:18:36 -0700 To: From: "terry marion ks" Subject: Re: KR> fly in Message-ID: <003101c225d1$f35c4be0$2ca060cc@r6t1n9> p planing on having a cookout & campout fly in sat.evening august 17 th at marion ks (43k) around 6:00 pm .more emformation later off to AZ. terry chizek marion ks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 07:57:30 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet From: Frank Ross Subject: KR LIST CONFUSION (Please READ) Message-ID: <20020707145730.55772.qmail@web21505.mail.yahoo.com> We are getting messages from BOTH the NEW and the STANDARD KRNETS BEFORE you hit SEND, LOOK at your "TO" box, PLEASE! Please LOOK at the ADDRESS you are SENDING your messages to! Someone answered a message (By hitting 'REPLY')to the NEW netserver at KRNET-LIST@MATRONICS.COM today. That message went out to all krnet members BUT under the NEW web address, in the NEW format. Then someone answered him by hitting 'REPLY' and that went out as a KRNET message. Now we are ALL getting KRNET messages from BOTH THE NEW AND THE OLD KRNETS IF YOU ARE GOING TO SEND MESSAGES TO KRNET, DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT Blindly hit REPLY LOOK First at the return address you are sending to and see if it is krnet@mailinglists.org (the old one) OR krnet-list@matronics.com (the new one) We will all get the messages, and I see no harm in using EITHER, but I cannot see any benefit of using BOTH. Personally, I will support Mark Langford's decision EITHER way. He's done a GREAT job and I think the krnet has been going great lately. On the other hand, if he decides to go with a new server, I hope it saves him time and he stays with it in whatever capacity he is comfortable with. But let's pay attention, folks and not add to the confusion until a decision is made. That's my RANT for today, and I'm sticking with it. Frank Ross, drying out in San Antonio, Texas, USA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:51:21 -0500 To: "krnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> KR LIST CONFUSION (Please READ) Message-ID: <002301c225ce$247f7a20$0100a8c0@TD310> Frank Ross (glug, glug) wrote: > We are getting messages from BOTH the NEW and the > STANDARD KRNETS I guess the problem is that Matt and I share different definitions of the phrase "hosting a list". When I got this incarnation of KRnet started a few years ago (when teleport quit supporting lists, and Ross was "out of pocket"), it was a matter of filling out a very short form, waiting a few minutes for the listserver's administrator to append a few files, and it was done. But back in February we were still getting attachments through KRnet, and our current administrator was not responding to my requests to end them. The threat of viruses spread to 650 people instantly just didn't appeal to me, so I started looking for another place to "host" the list. What I didn't understand was that on Matronics lists, Matt does the micro-managing of each list. It is he who determines how the "reply to" works, what the leaders and trailers say (the junk at the bottom), and that sort of stuff. That's the kind of details that I've been doing (with Randy's help) since I've been administering this list, and I like to have a say in how it works. What I do in actual adminstration of KRnet literally takes about 5 minutes a week, (although Randy may do more than I realize, but he's never complained) and it's just simple stuff like checking to see why somebody's not getting email when they think they should, etc. I can go physically look at the list and snoop around, and if all else fails, manually delete the guy and recreate him (you know how flaky computers are). After I asked Matt if he'd host KRnet, I discovered that HE held on to the actual administration responsibilities of his list, he's the guy that decides all of the little details of how it works, and that it was moderated (you have to wait for HIM to actually add or delete you from the list, and it might take "48-72 hours", rather than it being automated like our list is). And after a few months of trying to get the list set up, I came to the realization that I didn't want to have to beg somebody to do something for me, and then wait several weeks for it to happen. Sorry, but I'm just that way. I really didn't think he was ever going to set it up, and was going to just let it die, but if he ever emailed me again, I was going to tell him that I'd changed my mind. And then came his message "out of the blue", and that pretty much did it for me, although I thought I'd get YOUR feedback on it. I believe it's something like 30 to 0 in favor of staying like we are, and I don't blame you one bit. What finally sent me over the edge was receiving my first unsolicited advertisement (junk mail) from Matronics.com, tauting their fuel totalizer, despite the fact that Matt said in his email to us the other day "I have a strict, no-advertisement policy on my email list sites." Apparently that applies only to US, not to HIM! Having had the same email address for 7 years, I am buried with junkmail (half of which is in languages that I can't even read), and I don't appreciate it! I guess the Matronics lists are a valuable service to those who lack the expertise or the time to do it themselves, but I don't think we need it. I asked Matt yesterday to please delete KRnet from his web page of lists, and to pull the plug on the list itself to minimize confusion, as well as delete our 660 names from his junkmail address book. I don't know if this will happen, but I think the easiest thing for ALL of us to do is unsubscribe from the matronics KRnet list, by going to http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ , enter your email address in the box, scroll down to the KRnet list and check the box for "Unsubscribe", and go back up and hit the gray box that says "process all requests below". Still, since it's moderated, we're at his mercy as to when or even IF it actually happens. I might mention that, in contrast, it's a simple matter of sending a single email on "our" list and you are unsubscribed! Sorry about the confusion, it's entirely my fault, and I will try to leave "well enough" alone in the future. Don't forget to unsubscribe... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:13:00 -0400 To: "KRNET" , "Mark Langford" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: Matronics NOT Message-ID: Mark, Thanks for the good decision. I subscribed to a matronics list, and had a helluva time unsubscribing. I'm not sure I did, and still get "test" messages. You're doing a good job, and if we have to buy our way into a good provider, I think we can come up with the bucks OK. BTW, we probably all have junk/spam filters, so there's still a way to get off a list ;o) Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 10:35:32 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: control stops Message-ID: <20020707173532.38846.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, in regards to the elevator, rudder and aileron movement. How do most builders limit the amount of travel? Do you install stops or do you adjust the cables to stop at the limits? I don't remember seeing anything about this in the plans or drawings. Thanks, Rick Wilson. 0200-KR2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 13:20:06 -0500 To: Rick Wilson ,KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> control stops Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020707132006.0092a200@mail.midwest.net> >Hi, in regards to the elevator, rudder and aileron >movement. How do most builders limit the amount of >travel? Do you install stops or do you adjust the >cables to stop at the limits? >Rick Wilson. 0200-KR2 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Rick, There are probably as many solutions to this question as there are builders and you will probably have your own solution based on your control system design. The important thing to remember is to place the limit stops on the controls if at all possible and not on the control surfaces. Yes, I know that some certified aircraft have the stops on the control surfaces. My reasoning is that if I'm putting the controlls to the stop , I don't want these loads imposed on the control cables, bellcranks, hinges, etc. For stops, use tabs with adjustable bolts or any means (preferably adjustable) that you can design into your system. My aileron stops are adjustable bolts on my dual stick assy and my elevator stops are: stick against the spar for down limit and the cutout in my fiberglass seat for up limit. see what I mean. Just remember, if you change any of these to recheck your limits. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:26:28 +1000 To: "krnet listing" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> control stops Message-ID: <001d01c22605$58467660$0100a8c0@barry> Rick My old drawings say to file the elevator horn where it touches the elevator horn hinge to set the stop and travel Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Wilson" To: Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 3:35 AM Subject: KR> control stops > Hi, in regards to the elevator, rudder and aileron > movement. How do most builders limit the amount of > travel? Do you install stops or do you adjust the > cables to stop at the limits? I don't remember seeing > anything about this in the plans or drawings. Thanks, > Rick Wilson. 0200-KR2 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 20:26:51 -0500 To: "krnet listing" From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> control stops Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020707202651.008523a0@mail.midwest.net> >My old drawings say to file the elevator horn where it touches the elevator >horn hinge to set the stop and travel >Phil Matheson ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Do you really want to be "smacking" your elevator horn on the sharp edge of your hinge assy each time you check for " free and correct"? Doesn't give me a good feeling. How long before you get a nice big dent in the control horn which leads to stress cracks, which leads to , well, you get the idea. Also, this would not work for those builders using the "Dr. Dean" hinge. Stops really should be on the control assy if at all possible. Larry - fill/sand, fill/sand, fill/sand in the southern Illinois heat - Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 14:59:45 -0700 To: From: "The Waldrens" Subject: speed Message-ID: <000d01c22601$9c685060$b053fea9@holly---paden-s> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C225C6.EED3B780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the RR info, they claim a 180 cruise. The reports from the real world would suggest that a 150 cruise is more = realistic. Is this because we are building our planes wrong, too heavy? Paden=20 Sacramento ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C225C6.EED3B780-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:32:16 -0400 To: phwaldren@jps.net From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> speed Message-ID: <20020707.213408.-588679.0.virgnvs@juno.com> YES DEFINITELY, Virg On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 14:59:45 -0700 "The Waldrens" writes: > In the RR info, they claim a 180 cruise. > > The reports from the real world would suggest that a 150 cruise is > more realistic. > > Is this because we are building our planes wrong, too heavy? > > Paden > Sacramento > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:56:04 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> speed Message-ID: <007701c22622$9f036aa0$0100a8c0@TD310> Paden wrote: >>InThe reports from the real world would suggest that a 150 cruise is more realistic. Is this because we are building our planes wrong, too heavy? the RR info, they claim a 180 cruise.<< We had this discussion a while back, and the general consensus was that carrying a 200 pound passenger might slow you down 5 mph (based on actual experience from real-live KR pilots), so the short answer is "it's not the weight". I suspect that there's no such thing as a KR2S that weighs 520 pounds empty, can take off in 350 feet, land in 600 feet, stall at 48 mph, and cruise at 180 mph with a VW 2180 engine, while burning 4 gallons per hour, but somebody's welcome to prove me wrong... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:31:58 +1000 To: "krnet listing" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Fw: KR> WAF Design Sorry Typo Message-ID: <002d01c22606$1c1e4400$0100a8c0@barry> Donald > I can not find in my plans a torque for the WAF spar bolts, it says not to > squash the WOOD , so what does this mean??? Should have been , WOOD, not would. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au > > > Phil Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.au > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:47:43 -0600 To: krnet listing From: Rick Subject: Matronics Scavenger Message-ID: <41ED2F1280124E4D8B88691C9A9B5FDE011B6F@mail.binoids.com> Hi KRNettters I am somewhat ticked off at Matt from Matronics. Mark Langford made the right decision (as usual) with many KRNetters input and has asked Matronics to leave us as we were and Thank you. However... Matt is wanting 650 X $30.00 per year now wants to steal from our list in move of greed. Shame Matt... I can hardly wait to tell my RV friends what has transpired here. Matt should be an accountant for Enron. Wow... I'm usually not this snarky guys... PS. Got my landing Gear legs from Grove a few weeks ago. $$$ But... They are a true work of art and I would order from them again. I'm planning on getting them Powder Coated, but that process bakes the finish at 400 to 500 degs. Grove says if I Powder Coat them make sure the temp stays below 375 or it will affect heat treatment. I have emailed my Power Coater and am waiting for a reply. Should not be a problem? Take Care and Happy Building. Rick Hubka http://www.hubka.com/kr_main.htm rick@hubka.com 65 Butler Crescent NW Calgary AB T2L 1K4 Canada ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************