From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 22 Jul 2002 00:05:27 -0000 Issue 478 Date: Sunday, July 21, 2002 5:06 PM krnet Digest 22 Jul 2002 00:05:27 -0000 Issue 478 Topics (messages 11542 through 11560): canopys 11542 by: Edwin Blocher 11549 by: Ricky Farley Re: wood for longerons 11543 by: Daniel Heath Hi friends 11544 by: alfabravo pilot 11546 by: TONY SOLDANO Trim Tab size and travel 11545 by: Rick Re: Trim Tab / another idea 11547 by: Phillip Matheson 11550 by: Mark Langford Re: West Systems Epoxy / Hi friends 11548 by: Phillip Matheson Re: Spring trim tab. 11551 by: Phillip Matheson Fiberglass Cloth OR Carbon Fiber for wings 11552 by: Frank Ross Spring tension trim 11553 by: rfarmer Re: cookout 11554 by: terry marion ks trim tabs. 11555 by: Audrey and Harold Woods 11558 by: Serge F. VIDAL The Thrill of it All 11556 by: Mark Jones Engine 11557 by: Dave Vieira Re: Volkswagen Engines 11559 by: Frank Ross tubing size for instruments 11560 by: Rick Wilson Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:02:24 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: canopys Message-ID: <004a01c22f80$bb80e060$709131cc@cyou.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C22F56.D1751780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will have the prototype canopy from TODDS CANOPYS in about two weeks. = I will then want firm orders. Questions?? I'll try to answer them.=20 Cheers, ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, Florida ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C22F56.D1751780-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:54:10 -0500 To: "'Edwin Blocher'" From: "Ricky Farley" Cc: Subject: RE: KR> canopys Message-ID: <010c01c23040$5f7e5430$6401a8c0@ENTERPRISE> I am about to put the two sides together. Are the canopies you are having built the same dimensions as the Dragonfly? I'm planning to go about 44" at the widest point (moving that to the shoulders at the rear spar). I'm ready to order now, so once you confirm the dimensions, I'm putting it together. Thanks, Ricky Farley KR-2S, San Angelo Texas http://kr2s.r-farley.com -----Original Message----- From: Edwin Blocher [mailto:Blocher@cyou.com] Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 19:02 To: KRNet Subject: KR> canopys I will have the prototype canopy from TODDS CANOPYS in about two weeks. I will then want firm orders. Questions?? I'll try to answer them. Cheers, ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 05:41:46 -0700 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> wood for longerons Message-ID: Wood it not be prudent to buy the wood from Wicks, AS, or RR, for your KR. Can they be trusted to provide the proper grade? This home building is tough, but if you have to go out and grow the wood yourself,...... Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:51:13 +0000 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "alfabravo pilot" Subject: Hi friends Message-ID: Hello friends ...I got aspeciall EPOXY called -WEST SYSTEM 105 EPOXY RESIN- and -WEST SYSTEM 209 SPECIAL TROPICAL HARDENER-they are used for boats ?the resin is 5kg (one galon) the hardener is 1.65 kg arround 3 liter. have you ever used them ?? _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:26:03 -0400 To: "alfabravo pilot" , From: "TONY SOLDANO" Subject: Re: KR> Hi friends Message-ID: <000801c23023$4a971880$29ed3a41@compaq> west systems has beenaround for a while.it is a very good resin -----Original Message----- From: alfabravo pilot To: krnet@mailinglists.org Date: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: KR> Hi friends >Hello friends ...I got aspeciall EPOXY called -WEST SYSTEM 105 EPOXY RESIN- >and -WEST SYSTEM 209 SPECIAL TROPICAL HARDENER-they are used for boats ?the >resin is 5kg (one galon) the hardener is 1.65 kg arround 3 liter. have >you ever used them ?? > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:01:14 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Rick Subject: Trim Tab size and travel Message-ID: <41ED2F1280124E4D8B88691C9A9B5FDE011B76@mail.binoids.com> Hi I'm foaming the the Hor. Stabs and have my new MAC trim servo. What size and travel is right for the trim tab? I have done some searching on the KR net email and have seen all of these sizes 4" X 2" 8" X 3" 10" X 4" 6" X 3" Travel 20 deg up and 20 deg down?? I also came across 2 statements "Stock trim tab size is not enough" "make the trim tab bigger" Checking the KR diagram, I make out the size to be 10" X 4" and the hinge is at at offset angle. So if I may ask those who have built for some comments.. Take Care and happy building Rick Hubka http://www.hubka.com/kr_main.htm rick@hubka.com 65 Butler Crescent NW Calgary AB T2L 1K4 Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:17:52 +1000 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Trim Tab / another idea Message-ID: <006201c2303b$4b61cea0$e496dccb@Matheson> I have a friend , a retired CFI. He has just finished anf test flown his KR2. He hates trim Tabs. He used a Lever and spring system that holds spring tension on the Elevator controls . The drawings I sent Mark Langford has this set up . It is safe. and no controls or servos to fail, He had to put stronger springs on after the test Filght, but He says it worl REALLY well. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 See our engines at: http://www.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:57:14 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Trim Tab / another idea Message-ID: <003701c23049$2c550370$7600a8c0@athlon600> Phiullip Matheson wrote: > He used a Lever and spring system that holds spring tension on the Elevator > controls . The drawings I sent Mark Langford has this set up . > It is safe. and no controls or servos to fail, Sorry, but I haven't had (or made) time to do anything with those drawigs. I don't have a giant scanner to scan them with, and intend to eventually redo them in CAD, but I'll either have to finish my plane or break my leg first to find the time. I guess I should get them scanned somewhere and post the whole thing. Anyway, here's a detail of the trim lever ( at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/trim_lever.gif , upper left corner), which could be adapted to most any system now that you know the general idea. Some installations proabably need a compression spring too. It wouldn't suprise me if biasing the thing made it more susceptible to flutter, but then those with unbalanced elevators have the same situation when gravity acts on the elevator during flight. Since there is only one spring in this system, my guess is that he's counteracting gravity on the elevator's trailing edge with this setup. Troy Petteway uses something similar for his rudder trim, but the adjustment is a dirt simple ball chain (the tiny stuff like key rings and old fashioned light switches were made of ) pulled through a hole in the instrument panel. The other end is fastened to a spring and then to the rudder pedal. He pulls it out to various colored balls for different cruise conditions and drops it into a notch below the hole (a keyhole shaped hole). Can't get any lighter or simpler. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:19:59 +1000 To: "TONY SOLDANO" , "alfabravo pilot" , From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> West Systems Epoxy / Hi friends Message-ID: <006c01c2303b$9976d220$e496dccb@Matheson> This is beautiful epoxy to use, AS long as you mix it correctly . and mix it well. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 See our engines at: http://www.vw-engines.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "TONY SOLDANO" To: "alfabravo pilot" ; Sent: 21 July 2002 05:26 Subject: Re: KR> Hi friends > west systems has beenaround for a while.it is a very good resin > -----Original Message----- > From: alfabravo pilot > To: krnet@mailinglists.org > Date: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:51 AM > Subject: KR> Hi friends > > > >Hello friends ...I got aspeciall EPOXY called -WEST SYSTEM 105 EPOXY RESIN- > >and -WEST SYSTEM 209 SPECIAL TROPICAL HARDENER-they are used for boats ?the > >resin is 5kg (one galon) the hardener is 1.65 kg arround 3 liter. have > >you ever used them ?? > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:12:22 +1000 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Spring trim tab. Message-ID: <000d01c23053$ad990260$0100a8c0@barry> Mark Wrote: , Sorry, but I haven't had (or made) time to do anything with those drawigs. > I don't have a giant scanner to scan them with, and intend to eventually > redo them in CAD, =============================== Mark. Aub Has gone North for the winter hoildays I will try and contact him and get any mods he did to his trim setup. I have almost completed building those controls as per the plans I sent you Mark, I have found a few problems, and I am addressing them as I go, I will up date you on those changes soon. And than try to pass on to the net. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au See our VW engines at: http://www.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:03:30 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Fiberglass Cloth OR Carbon Fiber for wings Message-ID: <20020721060330.45599.qmail@web21502.mail.yahoo.com> Nasser, I am using fiberglass cloth. Carbon Fiber is excellent if you can afford it, but it is not necessary. Fiberglass cloth will do fine. You might save some weight using the CF, however. Follow the plans, or look at the way Mark Langford did his in his web site. Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX, USA --- alfabravo pilot wrote: > Hi ....I dont know which is better for wings > covering...fibercloth or CF I'm > scuttred between them . how many layers we have to > add ? ,and how should be > the direction of layers ?... > > best regards > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN > Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , > NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:09:35 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "rfarmer" Subject: Spring tension trim Message-ID: <002401c230af$7bade840$1c5f62d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C2308D.F3E52D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If anyone would like to see the Dragonfly spring tension trim setup = E-Mail me off line & I will scan. Bob Farmer ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C2308D.F3E52D40-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:05:42 -0700 To: From: "terry marion ks" Subject: Re: KR>cookout Message-ID: <002201c230d8$d9bff3a0$01a060cc@r6t1n9> I,m haveing a BBQ sat .Aug. 17th at 6:00 pm free too all .I do this each year and like to get some of the kr builder togather . This is no big fly in but shoud get about 6 builder to come and I will have my kr2 hear and the other two i,m building . This is at marion ks (43k) and email me if you planing on coming. Terry chizek tlc@wwwebservice.net back to AZ. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:17:22 -0400 To: From: "Audrey and Harold Woods" Cc: "Audrey and Harold Woods" Subject: trim tabs. Message-ID: <003801c230c9$b6c4b660$b0046418@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C230A8.2F3D9840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A trim tab MUST work properly at high speeds.Here we have heavy loads on = the tab.If it cannot overcome these forces it becomes useless. I was testing a Jodel D11 . It had a long Bowden cable to the tab on the = elevator. It moved nicely on the ground but was difficult to set at = flying speed.Perhaps the outer cable was not fixed solidly to the = fuselage all the way along. It was springy.=20 I did a power stall of 60 degrees at 5000 ft.Chopped the power and = pulled back HARD on the stick.Snap! the stick broke off at the floor. I = looked at the stick and could not believe that this was happening to me = up here. The plane stalled violently but did not drop a wing. It pointed = straight down at a marshy lake below.I pulled the trim tab lever for = nose up. Nothing happened, except the dive continued.It was red lined at = 150 mph but we were already at 180 mph. I tried to reach the elevator = cables behind the seat but the floor of the luggage compartment = prevented it. That is when I noticed the bullrushes on the lake moving = downward towards the nose. The high lift of the wings at this speed were = making it "climb". It leveled at 2500 feet and started to climb. Trim = nose down but it was not effective. It staled at 4500ft,power on to = flatten the stall , again a very steep dive . We went through 3 roller = coaster rides until I got level flight at 4500 feet.Trimmed for 70 = mph.Wings still level. A weld had broken ( a very bad weld). The Jodel had been designed for = two sticks. There was a "T" with two 90 degree elbows pointing up at = each end of the tee.Since the plane was under restrictions, the other = stick was not installed in the right hand tee.A careful inspection = revealed that if I could tie the broken stick to the right side of the = tee we might get some control. I undid my shoulder harness ,took off my belt and tried to tie the two = together.The increase in engine warned me. When I looked up the horizon = was vertical and we were dropping into a dive again.A quick manipulation = on the "T" straightened the plane and once again we were at 4500 ft and = level.There was a new yellow HB lead pencil in the log book. I broke it = into 3 pieces and jammed it into the elbow.A screw driver from the = lugage compartment fit in between the pieces. I used my shoe laces to = help bind all together. It worked.It gave me good lateral control and = sloppy elevator control. It was a beautiful day, no wind.a 200 foot grass strip, straight in = from 5 miles out.I really did not have to do anything except chop the = power as it went over the fence for a painted on landing. I would not want to experience this again and I tell every one , build a = plane with 3 trim controls which will work at all speeds. You should be able to land that plane with these trims only. I hope that = you never have to. Sorry I took up so much space on the net. Harold Woods. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/02 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C230A8.2F3D9840-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:28:04 +0200 To: "Audrey and Harold Woods" , From: "Serge F. VIDAL" Subject: Re: KR> trim tabs. Message-ID: <00cf01c230e6$c4270ca0$b4c321c4@co.za> Harold, You deserve a prize for the worst aviation horror story I've ever read! When I fly the KR2 solo, there is no way I can trim straight and level. The plane is nose heavy, and so, if I use elevator control...Nah, I prefer to think of something else! Serge VIDAL KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: Audrey and Harold Woods To: Cc: Audrey and Harold Woods Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 5:17 PM Subject: KR> trim tabs. A trim tab MUST work properly at high speeds.Here we have heavy loads on the tab.If it cannot overcome these forces it becomes useless. I was testing a Jodel D11 . It had a long Bowden cable to the tab on the elevator. It moved nicely on the ground but was difficult to set at flying speed.Perhaps the outer cable was not fixed solidly to the fuselage all the way along. It was springy. I did a power stall of 60 degrees at 5000 ft.Chopped the power and pulled back HARD on the stick.Snap! the stick broke off at the floor. I looked at the stick and could not believe that this was happening to me up here. The plane stalled violently but did not drop a wing. It pointed straight down at a marshy lake below.I pulled the trim tab lever for nose up. Nothing happened, except the dive continued.It was red lined at 150 mph but we were already at 180 mph. I tried to reach the elevator cables behind the seat but the floor of the luggage compartment prevented it. That is when I noticed the bullrushes on the lake moving downward towards the nose. The high lift of the wings at this speed were making it "climb". It leveled at 2500 feet and started to climb. Trim nose down but it was not effective. It staled at 4500ft,power on to flatten the stall , again a very steep dive . We went through 3 roller coaster rides until I got level flight at 4500 feet.Trimmed for 70 mph.Wings still level. A weld had broken ( a very bad weld). The Jodel had been designed for two sticks. There was a "T" with two 90 degree elbows pointing up at each end of the tee.Since the plane was under restrictions, the other stick was not installed in the right hand tee.A careful inspection revealed that if I could tie the broken stick to the right side of the tee we might get some control. I undid my shoulder harness ,took off my belt and tried to tie the two together.The increase in engine warned me. When I looked up the horizon was vertical and we were dropping into a dive again.A quick manipulation on the "T" straightened the plane and once again we were at 4500 ft and level.There was a new yellow HB lead pencil in the log book. I broke it into 3 pieces and jammed it into the elbow.A screw driver from the lugage compartment fit in between the pieces. I used my shoe laces to help bind all together. It worked.It gave me good lateral control and sloppy elevator control. It was a beautiful day, no wind.a 200 foot grass strip, straight in from 5 miles out.I really did not have to do anything except chop the power as it went over the fence for a painted on landing. I would not want to experience this again and I tell every one , build a plane with 3 trim controls which will work at all speeds. You should be able to land that plane with these trims only. I hope that you never have to. Sorry I took up so much space on the net. Harold Woods. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:09:35 -0500 To: "CorvAircraft" , "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: The Thrill of it All Message-ID: <002c01c230d1$01e6db80$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C230A7.18C48840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My engine is up and running. I just completed the first few test runs = with the longest being six minutes. Man this is better than......well = you decide how to finish that statement. Go to my photo of the week on = my web site to see the engine running and get the specs of that first = six minute run. http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C230A7.18C48840-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:39:39 -0700 (PDT) To: KRnet From: Dave Vieira Subject: Engine Message-ID: <20020721173939.37672.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com> If I were to go witht he VW engine, what kinda car (year, model) would I be looking for in the scrap yards? ===== Dave Vieira Ontario, Canada __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:55:07 -0700 (PDT) To: KRnet From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Volkswagen Engines Message-ID: <20020721185507.47427.qmail@web21506.mail.yahoo.com> Well, Bob, First, there are two web addresses you need. The first is "The Sermons of Bob Hoover at: http://osf02.ktu.edu.tr/~ulutas/hoover/ Very helpful even if you don't always agree with him. The second is the Air VW weblist. Kind of like the KR list but with a BUNCH of folk who are building and flying ALL kinds of planes with VW engines. You'll get an answer there real quick. Click on: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AirVW/ Hope this helps Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX --- Dave Vieira wrote: > If I were to go witht he VW engine, what kinda car > (year, model) would I be looking for in the scrap > yards? > Dave Vieira > Ontario, Canada __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:05:52 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: tubing size for instruments Message-ID: <20020722000553.77120.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Can anyone tell me what is the best or the correct size tubing to use for the pitot line going to the airspeed, and also what is the best size to use for the static air to the other instruments? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************