From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 26 Jul 2002 18:34:47 -0000 Issue 481 Date: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:35 AM krnet Digest 26 Jul 2002 18:34:47 -0000 Issue 481 Topics (messages 11621 through 11646): Re: everything i have been reading on the net 11621 by: Edwin Blocher Re: heat treatment 11622 by: ace nunye Heat Treating 11623 by: Tracy & Carol O'Brien 11624 by: asavant.notes.state.ne.us Spring tension trim 11625 by: rfarmer spring tension trim link 11626 by: rfarmer 11635 by: rfarmer MOXIE 11627 by: virgnvs.juno.com Plans 11628 by: virgnvs.juno.com BABBLE ? 11629 by: virgnvs.juno.com Tailwheel springs 11630 by: virgnvs.juno.com 11631 by: Rick Wilson UV Smooth Prime(long) 11632 by: larry flesner 11634 by: Phillip Matheson skin "bubbles" 11633 by: larry flesner Re: Welding 4130. 11636 by: Mark Langford 4130 welding 11637 by: Robert Abel 11638 by: Glasco sanding. 11639 by: Audrey and Harold Woods 11644 by: Stephen P. Glover Oshkosh and Jim Faugn 11640 by: Ronald Freiberger Re: Hi friends 11641 by: Ronald Freiberger 11642 by: Ronald Freiberger Re: KR 11643 by: Ronald Freiberger Re: list/reply/reply-all 11645 by: Ronald Freiberger replies 11646 by: Rick Wilson Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:28:24 -0500 To: "ace nunye" , From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> RE: everything i have been reading on the net Message-ID: <000801c23344$78e40f80$829131cc@cyou.com> Consider yourself slapped. I just checked and it is time to permently delete my deleted items. Seems like I just did it a few days ago but there are 1238 messages to delete. ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "ace nunye" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:13 PM Subject: KR> RE: everything i have been reading on the net > > > I wish Mark L. could invent something to filter everything that didnt > pertain to building or flying a KR. That way when I open my E-mail I didnt > have to sort thru all the crap like this ( this message ) and all the stuff > that doesnt help me or someone else build their plane. I open my mail > everyday and I get so excited to read about someone and their progress in > the building and test flying experiences but the other stuff I can do with > out. OK I deserve it somebody go ahead n slap me. > Mike > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:13:25 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "ace nunye" Subject: RE: heat treatment Message-ID: Anyone wanna get their stuff treated in the east I have found a place that specializes in normalizing. Carolina Heat Treatment - Reidsville NC. 1-336-342-0308 and Carolina Heat Treatment - Morristown Tn. 1-423-586-3200 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:01:13 -0700 To: Subject: Heat Treating Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20020724130113.00810600@localaccess.com> Netters, I've probably said this before, but heat treating is the biggest bang for your buck in the aircraft industry! This is especially true for weldments, but also applies to machined parts and even parts that are simply cut to length, such as a straight tube axle. (The stock length tubing axles I sell are simply cut to length and then sent off for heat treatment; they are threaded after they are heat treated!) Take everything made out of 4130, put it in a box and tell the heat treaters to take it up to 30 to 34 in the Rockwell C scale. This will give you a tensile of 140,000 to 150,000 PSI. Heat treaters generally have a minimum charge based on weight. My 60+ pound average batches always cost me $60.00! Regards, Tracy O'Brien PS: KR 4130 tail springs should be heat treated much higher on the C scale, which is why someone should run a batch of them! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:55:25 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: asavant@notes.state.ne.us Subject: KR> Heat Treating Message-ID: Tracy probably wanted to send this to all of us. ----- Forwarded by Ameet Savant/DASIMS/NEBRLN on 07/24/2002 03:55 PM ----- Tracy & Carol O'Brien To: Subject: KR> Heat Treating 07/24/2002 03:01 PM Netters, I've probably said this before, but heat treating is the biggest bang for your buck in the aircraft industry! This is especially true for weldments, but also applies to machined parts and even parts that are simply cut to length, such as a straight tube axle. (The stock length tubing axles I sell are simply cut to length and then sent off for heat treatment; they are threaded after they are heat treated!) Take everything made out of 4130, put it in a box and tell the heat treaters to take it up to 30 to 34 in the Rockwell C scale. This will give you a tensile of 140,000 to 150,000 PSI. Heat treaters generally have a minimum charge based on weight. My 60+ pound average batches always cost me $60.00! Regards, Tracy O'Brien PS: KR 4130 tail springs should be heat treated much higher on the C scale, which is why someone should run a batch of them! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:53:37 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "rfarmer" Subject: Spring tension trim Message-ID: <00df01c2335c$918f7160$165f62d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C2333B.09ACC5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not ignoring the many request to see how the DF trim tensioning = system works. I have been out of town since Sunday. Let me get a = Yengling Porter, warm up the scanner & I will post a link to it ASAP. Some replied to this as if it were related to the DF canopy. This is the = pitch control trim. Bob Farmer rfarmer@naxs.net ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C2333B.09ACC5C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:24:57 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "rfarmer" Subject: spring tension trim link Message-ID: <000e01c23369$53c07660$f65b62d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C23347.CBED0D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One way to spring tension trim the pitch (or roll for that matter) of an = airplane. Here is what I get out of this. Two springs are attached to a bell crank = in the control system. The springs apply force to both sides of the = control system. The springs are attached to cables that rotate around a = pulley. The pulley is attached to a wheel with a friction device to hold = it where it is placed. By rotating the friction wheel the spring tension = is increased on one side and decreased on the other side, just like = holding pressure on the stick yourself to maintain trim. Actual spring = tension and bell crank details are not given because they would probably = not apply to a KR anyway. Here is a link to the images, which are at the = bottom of the page so it may take a minutes or two to load. = http://www.foamhead.com/Builders%20pages/KR2%20Bob%20Farmer.html Bob Farmer rfarmer@naxs.net Use REPLY to E-Mail me with out posting to the LIST. To get a return = address from an E-Mail pick "FILES then PROPERTIES then DETAILS" The = address will be in RETURN PATH.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C23347.CBED0D00-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:50:27 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Bob Farmer" Subject: Re: KR> spring tension trim link Message-ID: <005901c233da$18b509c0$f65b62d8@oemcomputer> ----- Original Message ----- >Use REPLY to E-Mail me with out posting to the LIST. To get a return address from an E-Mail pick "FILES then PROPERTIES then >DETAILS" The address will be in RETURN PATH. >One way to spring tension trim the pitch (or roll for that matter) of an airplane. Wrong! E-mail address will be under General. Forget the details tab!!! Sorry about that I should never go by memory but I can never remember to do that. Bob From: "rfarmer" To: "krnet" Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:24 PM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:03:46 -0400 To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: virgnvs@juno.com Subject: MOXIE Message-ID: <20020724.192558.-380481.0.virgnvs@juno.com> huff puff puff, Virg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:13:22 -0400 To: krnet@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: virgnvs@juno.com Subject: Plans Message-ID: <20020724.192558.-380481.1.virgnvs@juno.com> And also ACCEPT the consequenses of any changes, Virg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:14:58 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: virgnvs@juno.com Subject: BABBLE ? Message-ID: <20020724.192558.-380481.2.virgnvs@juno.com> nO, BUT SHOUTING, yes, vIRG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:25:43 -0400 To: krnet@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: virgnvs@juno.com Subject: Tailwheel springs Message-ID: <20020724.192558.-380481.6.virgnvs@juno.com> Ever look at the springs om the back of an office chair ? The kind you lean against when leaning back ? Should make a great tailwheel spring, Virg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:59:27 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: tailwheel springs Message-ID: <20020724235927.57465.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com> Virg, That's the kind of spring I was talking about in a post I sent to the net some time ago. They are also on the spring chairs that come with wrought iron patio furniture sets. The springs are about 1-1\2" wide and about 5\8" thick and can be cut to approx. 12-18" long. Just thought I'd mention it. Thanks, Rick Wilson. KR2-0200. rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:57:26 -0500 To: From: larry flesner Subject: UV Smooth Prime(long) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020724185726.0086f550@mail.midwest.net> Netters, I took my first shot at using the FLIGHT GLOSS UV Smooth Prime today. My first reaction is this stuff is great!! I'll share a few observations with you. First: The manual says to stir all the "mud" off the bottom and then take to a paint store and shake it for ten minutes. I used a small paint mixer and my electric drill and did a mix of about 15 minutes or so and that seemed to do the job just fine. The paddle was $1.89 at Lowes. I used a variable speed drill for better control. Stick it right into the "mud" and let it churn. I also didn't have to wait for hours after a shake for the bubbles to disappear as the manual suggests. This stuff has a lot of solids in it so a good mix is very important. Get some of their free paint stir sticks while you are at the store as they come in handy around the shop too. Second: As this was my first exposure to Smooth Prime I started by mixing just one pint (with cross linker) to see how it would work out. I'd suggest using some type of snap in paint pourer to keep the primer out of the can lip. Again, $1.75 at Lowes. By the time I poured the paint into a pint jar, added/mixed the cross linker, poured that into my roller pan and saturated my roller well, I'd say I had "waste" of maybe 1/4 cup or more. At $126 a gallon you don't want to be starting and stopping too often. Have the most available area possible ready to prime once you start and avoid the "start and stop" waste. Third: I was happy with my decision to cover my project with the "deck cloth". Smooth Prime does fill the pin holes very well but I had few if any to worry about. The "deck cloth" was a very good surface to start laying a finish on. Fourth: Smooth Prime seems to dry very quickly (90 degrees out today) and sands VERY easy. The manual says you don't have to sand all but the last coat. No matter how careful you are you will get some "pimples" and roller ridges on your first coat. My theory is why keep rolling five more layers of primer over these imperfections? I did a very light sanding to remove these imperfections and now I'm priming over a smooth surface again. Two or three minutes of light sanding for the entire top surface of an outer wing panel was all it needed. I will probably do a light sanding after every two coats or so and I'll have a better idea of how well I'm covering and how smooth the finish will be when I get all six coats applied. Fifth: Coverage: The manual estimates it will take about three gallon to cover the "average" kit aircraft. With the coverage I got from my first "short" pint, I'm guessing it may take at least a full gallon and maybe a bit more to do both outer wing panels six times. If I watch my waste I may be able to prime the entire KR with three gallon. This is a W.A.G. (wild a** guess) at this point and I could be in error by a half gallon or more either way. I'll keep you posted as I get further along. Last: The "Flight Gloss" manual is "no charge" in the Wicks catalog. Request one on your next order and start reading ahead. You will have a better idea of the items you will need before you start the prime process. Question> Does anyone know of a "cheap" source for 3M SANDBLASTER (tm) sand paper? This stuff is the best paper I've come across in my 12 years of building. It cost me about $3.95 for 3 ea, 9" X 12" sheets at Lowes but I'm about convinced it is worth it and as good as it seems to be I won't need much. Any questions, fire away.......... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:16:58 +1000 To: "krnet listing" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> UV Smooth Prime(long) Message-ID: <003d01c23378$fba0b2a0$0100a8c0@barry> Larry. Is there a real need to apply 6 coates of undercoat? Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au See our VW engines at; http://www.vw-engines.com/vw-engines/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:32:41 -0500 To: From: larry flesner Subject: skin "bubbles" Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020724193241.0093cad0@mail.midwest.net> Netters, The subject of skin "bubbles" appearing on some projects has popped up on the list several times but as I recall, no one has ever suggested a cause/cure. I've given these "bubbles" some thought lately and here are my conclusions. My "guess" is these bubbles started as dry areas in the initial layup. Insufficent epoxy to wet the glass and bond it to the sub surface (foam). I suspect that some areas of the foam was not sealed well and too much epoxy soaked into the foam and the builder didn't notice the dry spots. The builder later does the fill/sand routine and seals the top side of the glass with filler/primer/paint or some combination of these. The first time the surface gets good and hot, you have a sealed chamber that the expanding air pushes upward. I sealed my foam, let it dry, and then did my glass layup making sure not to use too much or too little epoxy. All my glass surfaces have been exposed to several hours of direct sunlight with not a hint of a bubble anywhere. If I had a bubble, I think I would attempt to repair as follows. Drill a small hole in the center of the bubble to inject some fresh mixed epoxy. Support the surface so that the bubble is in a level attitude. Inject the epoxy, moving the surface of the bubble up and down to spread the epoxy on the surface below. Remove excess epoxy (anything that oozes out) and weight the skin until the epoxy cures. For a bubble that won't lay flat, I would cut across it in two directions until I could press it flat. Sand off the surface finish, do the epoxy trick on the bottom side of the bubble and put a layer of glass over the top and finish. I suspect the bubble would never again appear. THIS IS ONLY THEORY. YOUR RESUSTS MAY VARY. :-) Now, back to the shop to admire my freshly primed wing panel!!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:41:24 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Welding 4130. Message-ID: <00bc01c233fa$1de3bca0$7600a8c0@athlon600> Phillip Matheson wrote: > Does 4310 need to be normalized after welding. I guess this subject is like a lot of things, everybody has an opinion. I recently attended a Sportair TIG welding workshop (http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/sportair/ ) taught by Wyatt Swaim, the man who practically wrote the spec for TIG welding 4130 thin-wall tubing that is due to be published shortly. Up until now, AWS has had no spec for thin-wall tubing, only plate and thick stuff, which is where the heat treating info that people talk about comes from. Until this new AWS spec is released, his comments at http://www.tigdepot.com/faq.html are about as close as you can get to what the spec will look like. He's been doing this for 30 years, and personally did the welding that was used to verify the new welding spec, both back when he proved it to the USAF at the Skunkworks, and recently to prove it to AWS. In a nutshell, he says normalizing TIG welds on 4130 thin-wall tubing isn't necessary, if done properly with no drafts in the room, tight fit-ups, and small weld beads (with correspondingly small heat affected zone). Just another opinion... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:18:22 -0500 To: From: "Robert Abel" Subject: 4130 welding Message-ID: <004601c23420$ce5267a0$6601a8c0@coxinternet.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C233F6.E5319B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After reading several hundred posts to the effect of; this needs to be = stronger, that needs reinforcement, what if I accidently strike a tree @ = 200mph, what if I fly into a 400mph wind shear, you must normalize your = welds, and etc, I have decided that maybe we are starting to second = guess our third or fourth guesses! Let's face it; if we want to be = absolutely safe then we need to stay on the ground. After all, = non-fliers suffer fewer airplane crash deaths than fliers do! =20 After doing over 20 destructive tests in an attempt to determine whether = it is better to normalize than not, I discovered that weld quality is = everything; and I do mean everything! A standard weld, performed with = your regular old garden variety oxy-acetylene torch, on normalized 4130 = tubing will tear the tubing before the weld lets go if it is a decent = weld. If it is a bad weld, then it simply won't hold, normalized or = not! Additionally, if you do manage to stress your tubing to the point = of creating a tear in the weld, then you already have a "lot of glass in = your (_!_)" and its kinda late to be worried about whether or not you = should have normalized. =20 Finally, to properly "normalize" a piece of 4130 you need to know how = hot you got it, how long it was kept at that temperature, and what its = particular properties were when you started. If you start testing, you = will find that each batch of tubing has its own unique properties and if = you attempt to "normalize" a part of a batch from the low end of the = allowable range with a batch from the high end of that same range using = the same normalizing process then you may make things much worse than if = you'd left things alone. MAKE EACH WELD LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT!! = IT DOES!!! Robt. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C233F6.E5319B00-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 05:41:17 -0700 To: mailto: From: Glasco Subject: Re: KR> 4130 welding Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020726054117.00904320@mail.ridgenet.net> AND, as a perhaps interesting aside, I discovered a few years ago doing similar testing, that a goood braze joint provides a stiffer joint that will cause the tubing to tear further from the joint with less distortion before failure. In that case I was testing Formula Ford frame brazing of 4130 versus World of Outlaws sprint car welded frames. Turns out that Formula Fords running on paved road courses needed a very stiff chassey to allow them to do very precise suspension tuning where World of Outlaw sprinters running on dirt needed a durable chassey that could flex and stiffness to support suspension tuning was unimportant. Turned out that Both were using the proper technic for the needs of their environnment and in both the joint, done properly, was stronger than the 4130 tubing. The brazed joints were very stiff and invariably the tubing would tear back from the joint where the stiffness of the joint created a stress point beyond the flex limit of the tubing and the tubing would give. In a weld the weld and tube would bend until one or both, depending on the quality of the weld, would tear. At the time I was very surprised to find that brazed joints were stronger than the 4130 thinwall tubing and it was alway the tubing that tore where with welding the whole structure would distort until either the weld, the tubing, or both would tear. Brad Glasco KR-2S Corvair California At 04:18 PM 7/25/02 -0500, you wrote: >After reading several hundred posts to the effect of; this needs to be stronger, that needs reinforcement, what if I accidently strike a tree @ 200mph, what if I fly into a 400mph wind shear, you must normalize your welds, and etc, I have decided that maybe we are starting to second guess our third or fourth guesses! Let's face it; if we want to be absolutely safe then we need to stay on the ground. After all, non-fliers suffer fewer airplane crash deaths than fliers do! > >After doing over 20 destructive tests in an attempt to determine whether it is better to normalize than not, I discovered that weld quality is everything; and I do mean everything! A standard weld, performed with your regular old garden variety oxy-acetylene torch, on normalized 4130 tubing will tear the tubing before the weld lets go if it is a decent weld. If it is a bad weld, then it simply won't hold, normalized or not! Additionally, if you do manage to stress your tubing to the point of creating a tear in the weld, then you already have a "lot of glass in your (_!_)" and its kinda late to be worried about whether or not you should have normalized. > >Finally, to properly "normalize" a piece of 4130 you need to know how hot you got it, how long it was kept at that temperature, and what its particular properties were when you started. If you start testing, you will find that each batch of tubing has its own unique properties and if you attempt to "normalize" a part of a batch from the low end of the allowable range with a batch from the high end of that same range using the same normalizing process then you may make things much worse than if you'd left things alone. MAKE EACH WELD LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT!! IT DOES!!! > >Robt. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:22:22 -0400 To: From: "Audrey and Harold Woods" Subject: sanding. Message-ID: <01a701c234a7$7a2ac000$b0046418@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_01A4_01C23485.F2DF2440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has any one tried the sanding material used by wall plaster finishers? = It looks like a piece of window screen. It cannot ever fill up. = Investigate it. Harold Woods. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 7/1/02 ------=_NextPart_000_01A4_01C23485.F2DF2440-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:53:01 -0700 To: "Audrey and Harold Woods" , From: "Stephen P. Glover" Subject: Re: KR> sanding. Message-ID: <000e01c234bc$85537390$c18afea9@IntelliSpec> >Has any one tried the sanding material used by wall plaster finishers? It works great! I have been using it on my KR-2 onsome prep work. I've been burning the midnight oil trying to get this thing finished in time for the gathering...hopefully I will see you all there Regards, Steve Glover KR-1 in progress KR-2 in rebuild n925sg@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:54:29 -0400 To: "KRNET" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: Oshkosh and Jim Faugn Message-ID: Those of you who didn't attend Jim's symposium at OSHKOSH missed a gretat opportunity to learn some good stuff. For instance, Vinylester tanks/Ten Years/No leaks. CG alway 2'' ahead of PLANS SPEC. Flywith your fingers. Attaboy Jim. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:54:36 -0400 To: , From: "Ronald Freiberger" Cc: Subject: RE: KR> Hi friends Message-ID: Virg, you say that to all the girls. Improvization is inherent in homebuilts, just as necessity is the mother of invention. If we all followed the plans, we wouldn't need this newsletter. Besides, the plans aren't accurate, and I can't find any dynel. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: virgnvs@juno.com [mailto:virgnvs@juno.com] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:57 PM To: bravopilot@hotmail.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Hi friends FOLLOW the plans, Virg On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:04:00 +0000 "alfabravo pilot" writes: > > Hi .....I have questions : > > 1- is it safe to use west system Epoxy for the wings covring > ?or > just for the fuselag longerons? > > 2- which is better ? afully foame wing covered withe > fiberglass or a > conestructed foam wing (foam ribs covered by foam sheets and > fiberglass). > my best regards > > NASSER > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:54:48 -0400 To: "KRNET" , "Donald Reid" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> Hi friends Message-ID: Virg is gonna get on your ____ for not following the plans, but I appreciate your viewpoint and think I'll do about the same thing. That inner layer will really add stiffness and durability to the airplane. It can be a bit sloppy and still get the job done. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Donald Reid [mailto:donreid@erols.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:57 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Hi friends At 10:57 PM 7/22/2002 -0400, virgnvs@juno.com wrote: > FOLLOW the plans, Virg > > > Hi .....I have questions : > > > > 2- which is better ? afully foame wing covered withe > > fiberglass or a > > conestructed foam wing (foam ribs covered by foam sheets and > > fiberglass). Quite frankly, the plans stink. If you build KR style wings without enough foam, they will bulge under normal flight loads and develop surface cracks that could lead to premature failure. Full thickness foam will be very solid, but heavier than than necessary. Built to plan, the KR wing would have a nominal 1 inch thick foam with glass on the outside only. This is sufficient for normal air loads but if you have less foam present, there is not enough structure to prevent the upper surface from bulging outwards. It is not a very robust surface and can be damaged or punctured if you drop something on the wing. You get a much more robust structure if you put a single layer of glass on the inside surface. I have one ply on the inside surface (two in the wing tanks) and two plies on the outside. I can walk on any part of my wing without causing any damage. The small increase in weight is worth it to me Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:54:52 -0400 To: , From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> Re: KR Message-ID: Who wrote this? It's too long to be qanauthentic VIRG Anonymous -----Original Message----- From: virgnvs@juno.com [mailto:virgnvs@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:04 PM To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG Subject: KR> Re: KR I think that READ THE PLANS is a viable answer. Many here act as if the plans did not exist or have nor read them. Many of the questions asked could have been avoided if they did read the plans/ follow the plans. Ken and Stu biult a good plane and kept it light. We however build it up heavy, change things and do not thinlk through the consequenses. Then we complain that it does not perform as stated. Ken built the wings with about 1" foam, 2 layers of fibreglass outside, and walked the length of the wing without breaking through. Change things and it is not Kens technique that is at fault if the wings bow out under air loads. It is on the back of the one that did things differently. VIRG, Standing TALL. Take your best shots --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:53:52 -0400 To: "KRNET" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> list/reply/reply-all Message-ID: Didn't we do this discussion about a year a ago? Are we to be re-organised by newcomers? Back to airplanes.... Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:35:12 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: replies Message-ID: <20020726183512.87599.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, When I want to post a message on the kr net I type the first two letters or so and the computer fills in the rest, then I only have to click on that to put it in the "to" box. If I only want to send a reply to one person I type their email address. It's not that much of a big deal and then I'm sure where I'm sending it. What's the big hassle about typing an email address? Just my 2-1\2 cents worth, Rick Wilson. KR2-0200 rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************