From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 1 Aug 2002 04:26:33 -0000 Issue 485 Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:27 PM krnet Digest 1 Aug 2002 04:26:33 -0000 Issue 485 Topics (messages 11737 through 11767): Re: Build Light? Wing tanks Mounts 11737 by: Schurr, Larry 11740 by: James Wester OSH pictures?? 11738 by: Ed Janssen Re: Cutting Plexiglas 11739 by: Robert Stone Tape cutting 11741 by: virgnvs.juno.com 11742 by: Jerry Mahurin Your KR Parts 11743 by: Art Bruce 11744 by: bstarrs 11747 by: Frank Ross 11750 by: Leo & Gail Dondlinger Re: Canopy cutting with Router 11745 by: Frank Ross cutting plexiglass 11746 by: jim . synergy design Re: Your KR Parts/ Well done Art 11748 by: Phillip Matheson Re: The Bill Clapp affair 11749 by: Philip Maley 11761 by: Philip Maley Oshkosh Photos 11751 by: Mark Jones The AS5046 airfoil 11752 by: van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02) 11757 by: Mark Langford 11765 by: van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02) Spoilerons 11753 by: van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02) 11755 by: van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02) 11756 by: Donald Reid 11766 by: van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02) Flaperons 11754 by: van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02) AS5046 airfoil/KR100 11758 by: larry flesner attaching foam 11759 by: Tim Brown 11760 by: Donald Reid 11767 by: van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02) RAF48 11762 by: LewisAZ 11763 by: Mark Langford New member 11764 by: Jim Piunti Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:07:24 -0500 To: krnet listing From: "Schurr, Larry" Subject: RE: KR> Build Light? Wing tanks Mounts Message-ID: Phil, I'm saying all wing components, including fuel, affect the WAF. But the WAF should be of such robust nature that the mere presence or absence of fuel should have NO decisive factor of safety margin. IOW, use gross vehicle weight (X g's and 1.5 safety margin :-), regardless of fuel location, for wing fitting design and don't say "well, the fuel's in the wing so I can ignore that amount.." Larry > -----Original Message----- > From: Phillip Matheson [mailto:matheson@dodo.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:47 AM > To: Schurr, Larry; krnet listing > Subject: Re: KR> Build Light? Wing tanks Mounts > > > Larry > > I think you are saying that the load should not effect the > aircraft WAF. I > will have about 40 to 50 Litr at side. 33lbs a side of Fuel. > > > Phil Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.au > 61 3 58833588 > See our engines at: > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:40:35 -0400 To: "Schurr, Larry" , "krnet listing" From: "James Wester" Subject: Re: KR> Build Light? Wing tanks Mounts Message-ID: <002801c237ce$af9a2260$694f87d1@joflywester> Hey folks; I was wondering if any one knew of a Richard McCall , and if he has dropped a line here now and then... I've not been able to use my system for over a year now. Mick (contact) gave him a plug in issue #67 (direct drive 2.2 soob / KR-2s). ----- Original Message ----- From: Schurr, Larry To: krnet listing Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:07 AM Subject: RE: KR> Build Light? Wing tanks Mounts > Phil, > I'm saying all wing components, including fuel, affect the WAF. But the WAF > should be of such robust nature that the mere presence or absence of fuel > should have NO decisive factor of safety margin. IOW, use gross vehicle > weight (X g's and 1.5 safety margin :-), regardless of fuel location, for > wing fitting design and don't say "well, the fuel's in the wing so I can > ignore that amount.." > > Larry > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Phillip Matheson [mailto:matheson@dodo.com.au] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:47 AM > > To: Schurr, Larry; krnet listing > > Subject: Re: KR> Build Light? Wing tanks Mounts > > > > > > Larry > > > > I think you are saying that the load should not effect the > > aircraft WAF. I > > will have about 40 to 50 Litr at side. 33lbs a side of Fuel. > > > > > > Phil Matheson > > matheson@dodo.com.au > > 61 3 58833588 > > See our engines at: > > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:18:18 -0500 To: From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: OSH pictures?? Message-ID: <002d01c237cb$92147c20$0200a8c0@dad> ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C237A1.A8F3AF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, guys....who's gonna be the first to provide some pictures from OSH? = We're waitin' with great anticipation. Ed J. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C237A1.A8F3AF80-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:17:23 -0500 To: "Frank Ross" , "KR-Net" From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Cutting Plexiglas Message-ID: <001001c237cb$712da220$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> I forgot to mention using masking tape as described by frank. It does prevent slipping off the line and also provides an excellent surface to put the line on. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Ross" To: "KR-Net" Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:37 AM Subject: RE: KR> Cutting Plexiglas > I have not cut into my canopy yet, but I seem to > remember something about laying down a strip of > masking tape along the cutting line, drawing your > cut-line along it and cutting the plastic with the > tape in place. > I know this would help prevent slipping off line. Does > anyone know any more about using masking tape? > > Thank you > Frank Ross, San Antonio, TX > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:44:36 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: virgnvs@juno.com Subject: Tape cutting Message-ID: <20020730.104809.-358497.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Use painters tape as it is eaiser to remove. The Dremel fiber cut off wheels will do fine, just take your fingers and peel off the heated up plastic after cutting, Virg Dremel # 426 wheel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:12:47 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> Tape cutting Message-ID: I would hope that during all this cutting that ALL of the glass is covered with some kind of protection (ex: spraylast)....!!! You can see Dan using his 'splitter' on our website kr-builder.org. The pic is in the Canopy section and he is cutting out the section for the gullwing doors.... Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC http://kr-builder.org http://jerrymahurin.com On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:44:36 -0400 virgnvs@juno.com wrote: > Use painters tape as it is eaiser to remove. The >Dremel fiber cut >off >wheels will do fine, just take your fingers and peel off >the heated up >plastic after cutting, Virg Dremel # 426 wheel > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT >"reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: >krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: >krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at >http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:21:31 -0400 To: From: "Art Bruce" Cc: Subject: Your KR Parts Message-ID: <002001c237e5$67e514e0$1ce21504@eagnet.com> ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C237C3.A30417A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Phil, My name is Art Bruce and I am a KR2S builder in southeast Georgia, = USA. I have seen your recent postings about the missing part from Bill = Clapp. I had emailed him back in May and had spoken to him by phone. He = resides about 2 1/2 hours drive west of me. Upon seeing your posting = today, I found him and spoke with him this morning. The family has had = difficulty with their phones ($800 long distance charges that were not = theirs) The local phone company is working on the solution. Because of = the phone problem, he has not had internet service, email or been able = to see your notes on the KRNet. He wants to have contact with you. He = gave me his cell phone # to give to you. It is (229.561.1495) His = address is 3913 Rowell Road, Valdosta, GA 31606. He assures me that he = did send the part to you. He has begun a trace on this international = shipment. He would like to have your phone # so that he may speak to = you. If you are unable to reach him at this number today, please email = me with your phone # so I may forward it to him. Thank you. Art Bruce abruce@eagnet.com 108 Princeton Place Kingsland, GA 31548 912.729.1616 ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C237C3.A30417A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:40:10 -0700 To: From: "bstarrs" Subject: Fw: KR> Your KR Parts Message-ID: <002201c237f0$27b2c060$9200a8c0@bstarrs> It looks likes Mr. Clapp is about to get the clapp. Is this internet a great thing ,or what? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Bruce" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:21 AM Subject: KR> Your KR Parts Phil, My name is Art Bruce and I am a KR2S builder in southeast Georgia, USA. I have seen your recent postings about the missing part from Bill Clapp. I had emailed him back in May and had spoken to him by phone. He resides about 2 1/2 hours drive west of me. Upon seeing your posting today, I found him and spoke with him this morning. The family has had difficulty with their phones ($800 long distance charges that were not theirs) The local phone company is working on the solution. Because of the phone problem, he has not had internet service, email or been able to see your notes on the KRNet. He wants to have contact with you. He gave me his cell phone # to give to you. It is (229.561.1495) His address is 3913 Rowell Road, Valdosta, GA 31606. He assures me that he did send the part to you. He has begun a trace on this international shipment. He would like to have your phone # so that he may speak to you. If you are unable to reach him at this number today, please email me with your phone # so I may forward it to him. Thank you. Art Bruce abruce@eagnet.com 108 Princeton Place Kingsland, GA 31548 912.729.1616 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:44:35 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet From: Frank Ross Subject: KR> Your KR Parts Message-ID: <20020730194435.79746.qmail@web21508.mail.yahoo.com> Art, Thank you for posting this to the net. It shows how fast things can get out of hand when your communications break down. I have had problems (not recently, fortunately) with erroneous telephone charges and know what kind of a nightmare that can become. It is also a good demonstration of how much we depend on these things we take for granted, like e-mail, telephones and even the US postal service. The bottom line, though, is that when you get someone's money, do everything you can to make sure he gets what you agreed on and that you have some way of proving it. It is my sincere hope that Bill and Phil can re-establish contact and get this mess cleared up to the satisfaction of both parties. Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX --- Art Bruce wrote: > difficulty with their phones ($800 long distance > charges that were not theirs) The local phone > company is working on the solution. Because of the > phone problem, he has not had internet service, > email or been able to see your notes on the KRNet. > at this number today, please email me with your > phone # so I may forward it to him. Thank you. > Art Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:59:31 -0700 To: "Art Bruce" From: "Leo & Gail Dondlinger" Cc: Subject: Re: KR> Your KR Parts Message-ID: <006501c23846$acf886f0$0100a8c0@dondlinger1> Let me say "Thanks Art" also. Thank You for taking the time to help. Communication or lack there of, is the most common source of problems. I realize this isn't settled but it sure helped get things going in the right dirrection. Item number two I am not sure if I want a newsletter or not. But Mark asked for my help and my support. That is good enough for me. I guess I don't want the thing to die, that's for sure. I sent in my 2 cents and my 24 dollars. Cheap price to save a legacy. Proud to be a member. Leo Dondlinger, Seattle, WA. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:49:01 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Canopy cutting with Router Message-ID: <20020730174901.65323.qmail@web21507.mail.yahoo.com> Virg, What took you so long, you're MISTER DREMEL! Wouldn't the bit-type or router-type cutters with the special attachment work better? Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX, --- virgnvs@juno.com wrote: > Use painters tape as it is eaiser to remove. > The Dremel fiber cut > off > wheels will do fine, just take your fingers and peel > off the heated up > plastic after cutting, Virg Dremel # 426 wheel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:20:18 -0700 To: From: "jim @ synergy design" Subject: cutting plexiglass Message-ID: <003401c23806$8701da40$0101a8c0@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C237CB.D93345A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Having worked in a place that made plexiglass skylights, the preferred = method is a router(dremel, or rotozip as well) and a 3/16" router bit. = Dremel makes a small attachment that turms your Dremel into a small = drywall cut-out tool(a small base)that helps alot to steady the thing . = Do NOT try to remove freshly cut plexiglass goo with your fingers until = it cools and becomes hard. Dont ask how I know. If you can clamp a thin = piece of wood or aluminum as a guide for the straight cuts, It'll come = out great. Use a new bit. Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C237CB.D93345A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:11:43 +1000 To: "krnet" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Your KR Parts/ Well done Art Message-ID: <015601c23816$17956d60$0100a8c0@LocalHost> The lord, and the net , works in wonderful ways. Well done Art. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 NSW Australia. See our VW engines at; www.vw-engines.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Ross" To: "krnet" Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:44 AM Subject: KR> Your KR Parts > Art, > Thank you for posting this to the net. It shows how > fast things can get out of hand when your > communications break down. > I have had problems (not recently, fortunately) with > erroneous telephone charges and know what kind of a > nightmare that can become. > It is also a good demonstration of how much we depend > on these things we take for granted, like e-mail, > telephones and even the US postal service. > The bottom line, though, is that when you get > someone's money, do everything you can to make sure he > gets what you agreed on and that you have some way of > proving it. > It is my sincere hope that Bill and Phil can > re-establish contact and get this mess cleared up to > the satisfaction of both parties. > Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX > > --- Art Bruce wrote: > > > difficulty with their phones ($800 long distance > > charges that were not theirs) The local phone > > company is working on the solution. Because of the > > phone problem, he has not had internet service, > > email or been able to see your notes on the KRNet. > > > at this number today, please email me with your > > phone # so I may forward it to him. Thank you. > > Art Bruce > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:46:07 +0800 To: "KRnet" From: "Philip Maley" Subject: Re: KR> The Bill Clapp affair Message-ID: Hello Art and all you other kind people Thanks for your help. I tried calling Bill Clapp today and left my number on his voice mail. Like you, I can't believe somebody would go to so much trouble for the sake of a measly $525 so there must be more to the story than we know. Unfortunately all the evidence still points to a scam. He asked me to send the money to him in a cashable form (Western Union money order), then after he said he had sent the package he was unable to give me a tracking number despite many emails and telephone requests. I pointed out to him on several occasions that any reasonable person would be getting suspicious and worried but that didn't seem to make any difference. Then his phone was disconnected and his email account was discontinued... By the way, my telephone number was on many of the emails I sent him so it seems strange that he couldn't call me. Let's see if he returns my call now. Kind regards Phil Maley Perth Australia mailto:phil@wotech.com.au http://www.wotech.net/vk6ad/ PS: I tried emailing Art direct and his mail server rejects the connections. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:55:34 +0800 To: "KRnet" From: "Philip Maley" Subject: RE: The Bill Clapp affair Message-ID: Hi all Sorry to bore you all with this. I was lucky enough to get hold of Bill Clapp's cellphone number yesterday and have called him twice now. No answer. Left a message asking him to call me. Guess what - no reply. Today I left a voice message to say he could easily resolve all this by either sending my money back or giving me a UPS tracking number for the package. I told him I would then tell all the agencies I have submitted complaints to that the issue was resolved. Any reasonable person would at least contact me to explain the problem. All of you who have replied have been very supportive and I really appreciate it. I'll definitely post a note to the list if I hear from Bill, so hold on for the next installment (but don't hold your breath). Regards Phil Maley Perth Australia mailto:phil@wotech.com.au http://www.wotech.net/vk6ad/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:22:11 -0500 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Oshkosh Photos Message-ID: <006f01c23849$d7653f20$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C2381F.EE5E6320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have posted photos of Oshkosh 2002 on my webpage. Go to my website and = click on the link. Hope you enjoy. http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C2381F.EE5E6320-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:35:48 -0500 To: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" Subject: The AS5046 airfoil Hi all, Where can I find detail on exactly where the outer spars match the outer rib of the AS5046 airfoil. I see on all the pictures that the main spar seems to be located closer to the aft section of the outer rib template. (I.o.w the main spar seems to be pulled backwards at the end) Thanks, Hennie van Rooyen South Africa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:18:26 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> The AS5046 airfoil Message-ID: <000b01c23894$c2286e20$5f0ca58c@mlangford> Hennie van Rooyen wrote: > Where can I find detail on exactly where the outer spars match the outer rib > of the AS5046 airfoil. I see on all the pictures that the main spar seems to > be located closer to the aft section of the outer rib template. (I.o.w the > main spar seems to be pulled backwards at the end) I'll check, but I'm pretty sure the drawings are set up so that the relationships of the spars to the airfoil chord are identical to the setup of the RAF48 shown in the RR plans. That's why we requested the AS5046, because the AS5045 wasn't a perfect match to the existing spars due to the location of the "bulges" being slightly different between the two airfoils. The airfoil "plans" are designed to be used exactly as the RR plans call for, except using a different shape for the template. Planform (and spar location) remain exactly the same. That setup has been proven, and offers the "safest" deviation from the plans. Installation instructions are at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet/as5046inst.html . There is mention of changing the horizontal stabilizer incidence, but that's in improvement that all KRs could stand, in my humble opinion. You could build a KR with new wing airfoil and old horizontal stab and incidence, if you wanted to. In fact, that's exactly what Troy did, because he didn't have the heart to tear into his tail right after he'd rebuilt it with his new smaller elevators and rudder. His plane would probably be a little faster if the two matched. That's why my horizontal stab is ground adjustable, so I can tweak it to perfection by trial and error. Since you mention seeing "all the photos of the new airfoil", you're probably talking about pictures of the AS5046 implementation on MY airplane, so all bets are off. I slid things around here and there, for various reasons, one of which was to be able to use the aft spar as the attach point for my ailerons and flaps, but that kind of talk can start a war here! It might be mentioned though, that that's exactly what Kevin Kelly did with the KR100, which almost made it into "production" at RR. I did it before I knew Keven had done it though. Kevin also changed the wing incidence and horizontal stab incidence to be closer together too, with a total decalage of 2 degrees, if I'm not mistaken. I'm thinking that Larry Capps might do an in-depth article for the Newsletter on that plane, assuming the Newsletter survives. Mark Langford, TET, LLC mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:13:52 -0500 To: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" Subject: FW: KR> The AS5046 airfoil Hi Mark, Thanks for the reply. Just as yourself. I also have my own opinions for a perfect KR2 derivative and this is what I'm building: 1. With more than 600 hours of all sorts of microlights behind me, I wanted a plane that has the speed capabilities of the KR, but landing characteristics of the microlights. Thus it should be able to fly at 200+ mph, but also be able to land in the mid 20 mph range. Impossible? Think again - I'm going to achieve this and soon! 2. I've read many articles which states that the actual Hp of a 1800cc VW turning in the lower 3000 Rpm range is closer to 45Hp than the suggested 60Hp everyone quotes. Ken designed this aircraft to fly perfectly with only 60Hp if it is built light. So I re-designed everything by: 3. Moving the seats and firewall forward so that the pilot (me, 6ft tall) and passenger sits comfortably right on the cg. 4. The tail is also stretched, but not as much as the KR2S. 5. The tail feathers have been increased for better control and low speed handling. 6. Coming from a microlighting background, I know where to find 60 Hp at less than half the weight of the VW, so I'll use a proper 2 stroke like the 503 Rotax until my finances allow something like the 30Hp Hirth or 6 cylinder 180Hp Arrow two stroke engines. Having many hours in the air with two strokes gives me the total confidence to do this. 7. I've exceeded all wood dimensions slightly to give me a stronger, yet light airframe. I'll run a tube from the inner rear spar to the outer main spar on the outboard wings to make the wings safe at the higher speed obtained with i.e. the Arrow engine - just imagine a 400+ lbs aircraft with 180 Hp! 8. My fuel will be in both the inner and outer wings ONLY, so I'll have no loading cg problems like most do - my aircraft should fly the same with one or two aboard and wheather no fuel or full fuel. 9. I see no benefit in tapering the fuselage at the bottom, so mine is wider than the KR and the same width top and bottom. Having located the seats forward puts the shoulders at the widest part of the airframe and my seating arrangement is extremely comfortable with two aboard. 10. I've used tube push pull control throughout like in most microlights - much easier to construct and a lot safer and less complex than any cable arrangement. The ONLY easily accessible parts to be inspected on every preflight are the clearly visible bolts at each end. 11. I've designed and fabricated my own lightweight tricycle gear with steerable nose wheel - much lighter than the original KR setup, yet easily strong enough for my purposes. 12. I'll only use a Skydat microlight single instrument with a hand held radio. 13. Initially no electric starter - the start pull rope for the Rotax 503 is mounted at the bottom of the firewall inside the cockpit - so I even save some more weight. 14. The canopy will be like the Swearinham 3000's with a flat wrap around Plexiglas or lexan windshield which is easy to make, lightweight, super modern and with excellent headroom and visibility. 15. I'll use the new airfoil with full span flaps, even on the inboard side. The flaps will be like the PC Pilatus, which is hinged at the bottom wing skin with a curve at the top like yours. Thus there'll be no gap and by deploying them, the bottom wing area stays the same but the top area is increased making the total wing area larger helping with more lift for both take-offs and landings. Landing at 25 - 30 mph should get rid of most of the floating in any case. 16. I'll use spoilers on the outboard wings for both roll and decent control. My life was saved on more than one occasion on microlights by this facility by being able to deploy both spoilers simultaneously, killing a lot of lift in this way. Once it got me out of cloud suck and in landings, I could come down like a parachute. By letting them retract just above the ground I could then flare and do a normal landing. Thus, using spoilers in this way lets you absolutely control your descent and you can put the aircraft down anywhere you want! 17. Initially I was going to use the GAW-1 airfoil. I was going to attach the wings right at the fuselage so that the brackets of the outer wings actually protrude into the fuselage. The wing attach bolt would then be inside the fuselage where they could be easily reached. Because I'm using longer wings and unsure of the strength of this arrangement, I came up with another idea in which the outboard wings simply fold up at the joint with only minor modifications to one of the upper main WAFs. So I built new spars like the KR and this is the way I'll go. I made several other changes, but all in all I'm convinced I'll get what I'm after and I hope to be flying before this Christmas. Regards, Hennie -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:18 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> The AS5046 airfoil Hennie van Rooyen wrote: > Where can I find detail on exactly where the outer spars match the outer rib > of the AS5046 airfoil. I see on all the pictures that the main spar seems to > be located closer to the aft section of the outer rib template. (I.o.w the > main spar seems to be pulled backwards at the end) I'll check, but I'm pretty sure the drawings are set up so that the relationships of the spars to the airfoil chord are identical to the setup of the RAF48 shown in the RR plans. That's why we requested the AS5046, because the AS5045 wasn't a perfect match to the existing spars due to the location of the "bulges" being slightly different between the two airfoils. The airfoil "plans" are designed to be used exactly as the RR plans call for, except using a different shape for the template. Planform (and spar location) remain exactly the same. That setup has been proven, and offers the "safest" deviation from the plans. Installation instructions are at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet/as5046inst.html . There is mention of changing the horizontal stabilizer incidence, but that's in improvement that all KRs could stand, in my humble opinion. You could build a KR with new wing airfoil and old horizontal stab and incidence, if you wanted to. In fact, that's exactly what Troy did, because he didn't have the heart to tear into his tail right after he'd rebuilt it with his new smaller elevators and rudder. His plane would probably be a little faster if the two matched. That's why my horizontal stab is ground adjustable, so I can tweak it to perfection by trial and error. Since you mention seeing "all the photos of the new airfoil", you're probably talking about pictures of the AS5046 implementation on MY airplane, so all bets are off. I slid things around here and there, for various reasons, one of which was to be able to use the aft spar as the attach point for my ailerons and flaps, but that kind of talk can start a war here! It might be mentioned though, that that's exactly what Kevin Kelly did with the KR100, which almost made it into "production" at RR. I did it before I knew Keven had done it though. Kevin also changed the wing incidence and horizontal stab incidence to be closer together too, with a total decalage of 2 degrees, if I'm not mistaken. I'm thinking that Larry Capps might do an in-depth article for the Newsletter on that plane, assuming the Newsletter survives. Mark Langford, TET, LLC mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:42:45 -0500 To: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" Subject: Spoilerons Hi all, Another question: Has anyone built and flown a KR2 with spoilerons in stead of ailerons. a Search did not produce a satisfactory answer. Also, I've discovered in a search that the GAW wing did not prove to be an improvement and I'm wondering why??? Not that I plan on using it, it is just that I'm in posession of an old newsletter where the pilot reported good results with his KR and this airfoil. He said that it did not stall but merely mushed and could be flown at a much higher angle of attack. I'm just curious though, I'm using the new AS5046 airfoil and not the GAW. Even Ken Rand used it on the KR3 and he should have known a thing or two... I know that rain influences it (GAW), but the KR2 has plenty of wing area for it's weight and that should not prove to be dangerous. Regards, Hennie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:45:05 -0500 To: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" Subject: FW: KR> Spoilerons Hi John and all, Wow, that's dramatic! Then the quickie and canard types would really not be able to fly in heavy rain as they would suffer tremendous loss of lift in those conditions. I initially planned on using a GAW-1 airfoil for my aircraft and already built the inner spars to suit. The idea was to join the wings right at the fuselage with the actual WAF residing inside the fuselage. Then later I decided against it and built new proper RAF 48 spars which can now luckily be used for the new and proven airfoil. I stiil have the original and inspected spars, so maybe I'll go this way on another project someday... I just thought that more KR builders actually used this GAW-1 airfoil judging by the feedback from the old newsletter and also by the fact that Ken Rand saw fit to use them for the KR3. By the way, what caused this aircraft to be wrecked? I do know that it was under powered - was this also the cause of the accident? Just curious as always. Also I saw that Troy's KR2 was one of the fastest around. What sort of speeds is he getting and did he do anything out of the ordinary to prevent flutter and raise his Vne? Regards, Hennie -----Original Message----- From: gleeso [mailto:gleeso@netcon.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:31 AM To: van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02) Subject: Re: KR> Spoilerons Hennie, a word about rain on laminar flow wings, we have several high performance sailplanes, (like 40-1 plus glide ratios), but when they are wet are back to less than 30. Needs to be experienced to be believed. regards John Gleeson Down under. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:38:11 -0400 To: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Spoilerons Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020731083649.00a32ec0@pop.erols.com> --=====================_691126==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Another question: Has anyone built and flown a KR2 with spoilerons in stead >of ailerons. a Search did not produce a satisfactory answer. Yes. You can read about it at http://users.erols.com/donreid/sportaviation/Kr80-8.HTM or go to my KR page and follow the links to Sport Aviation articles concerning the KR. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org --=====================_691126==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:20:32 -0500 To: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" Subject: FW: KR> Spoilerons Hi Don, Thanks for the links - I've already been to your site before. Excellent work! What's that engine hanging so far forward? Is it a two stroke or a Rotax 912? Yes, I've already read the article on that KR1, but I've also read another article in which a KR1 with spoilerons cartwheeled down the runway on a cross wind take-off due to the lower wing with the spoiler deployed not generating enough lift for take-off on hence my concern. I'm going ahead with this idea in any case, so in the not too distant future we should all know how this works! Regards, Hennie -----Original Message----- From: Donald Reid [mailto:donreid@erols.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 2:38 PM To: 'krnet@mailinglists.org' Subject: Re: KR> Spoilerons >Another question: Has anyone built and flown a KR2 with spoilerons in stead >of ailerons. a Search did not produce a satisfactory answer. Yes. You can read about it at http://users.erols.com/donreid/sportaviation/Kr80-8.HTM or go to my KR page and follow the links to Sport Aviation articles concerning the KR. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:30:32 -0500 To: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" Subject: Flaperons Hi all, Wow, but I DO have a lot of questions. I'm busy with my wings and I need to plan ahead for all these things before I apply foam and fiberglass. Has anyone actually built and use flaperons - I'm sure I saw something like this in an old newsletter. If so, I've also read somewhere that by drooping both ailerons at low speed, does not cause satisfactory roll control by differentiating there relative positions. I.o.w., at low speed they're fine as flaps but no good as ailerons. I plan to use full span flaps with spoilers for roll control or flaperons if they've been proved to be effective with the latest KR airfoil. Regards, Hennie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:55:01 -0500 To: From: larry flesner Subject: AS5046 airfoil/KR100 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020731105501.00939590@mail.midwest.net> snip+++++++++++++++++++++++ >might be mentioned though, that that's exactly what Kevin Kelly did with the >KR100, which almost made it into "production" at RR. I did it before I knew >Keven had done it though. Kevin also changed the wing incidence and >horizontal stab incidence to be closer together too, with a total decalage >of 2 degrees, >Mark Langford, TET, LLC ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= As I recall, the KR100 used the RAF48 airfoil with a different lead edge shape forward of the front spar. I e-mailed the present owner of the aircraft and he said he would look in to finding what shape was used but it might take a while. I thought that depending on how my 0-200 KR performs, I might consider someday changing the lead edge to a new plan form. If it does well with the RAF48 it will probably take some damage of some type before I'd consider taking it down for that type of modification so who knows. Right now I just want to get it in the air!!! (I think I got that info from the KR promotion tape with the KR100 section at the end, if anyone has one of those.) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:40:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Group KR NET From: Tim Brown Subject: attaching foam Message-ID: <20020731204012.23729.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> The manual says to epoxy the foam to the ribs and spars for the stub wing foam (and outer wings). Is this attachment structural? Or is this attachment merely to hold the foam in place for sanding and glassing? Is this 3-5 minute epoxy, T-88, or thick micro? Or can one just "glue" it in? Thanks. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:17:20 -0400 To: From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> attaching foam Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020731171227.00a2ed30@pop.erols.com> --=====================_11456453==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:40 PM 7/31/2002 -0700, Tim Brown wrote: >The manual says to epoxy the foam to the ribs and >spars for the stub wing foam (and outer wings). > >Is this attachment structural? > >Or is this attachment merely to hold the foam in >place for sanding and glassing? > >Is this 3-5 minute epoxy, T-88, or thick micro? > >Or can one just "glue" it in? It is structural only in the sense that if the glue joint fails, the surface glass layer can very easily crack. If that crack is in a critical area, the crack can propagate and lead to problems. The good news is that the glue does not need to be extremely great since the foam is not all that strong. Micro works very well as long as you keep the micro away from the area to be sanded. Don Reid mailto:donreid@erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org --=====================_11456453==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:51:12 -0500 To: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" From: "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" Subject: FW: KR> attaching foam Hi Tim, I've found that the best way to glue poly urethane foam is by using liquid foam. This comes in two parts and when mixed becomes the same as the foam sheets themselves. Best way is to bevel all joints and then simply pour this liquid foam into the openings. It dries in minutes to a fully sandable foam surface and it sticks to ANYTHING! You have to be quick though and wear gloves as this stuff you'll wear off your hands - you do not wash it off, PERIOD! Hennie -----Original Message----- From: Tim Brown [mailto:timwbrown@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:40 PM To: Group KR NET Subject: KR> attaching foam The manual says to epoxy the foam to the ribs and spars for the stub wing foam (and outer wings). Is this attachment structural? Or is this attachment merely to hold the foam in place for sanding and glassing? Is this 3-5 minute epoxy, T-88, or thick micro? Or can one just "glue" it in? Thanks. Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:03:17 -0700 To: From: "LewisAZ" Subject: RAF48 Message-ID: <003101c238ff$9df21860$23850343@net> ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C238C4.EDB67B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In reference to the post"KR100 wing" I check with Kevin and he says that = he didn't change the leading edge or the incidence on the wing or the = tail. The wing then is a RAF48 and all else is the same. Lewis/ Doug N1004K=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C238C4.EDB67B60-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:45:06 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> RAF48 Message-ID: <002b01c23905$7203b320$0100a8c0@TD310> Doug wrote: >>In reference to the post"KR100 wing" I check with Kevin and he says that he didn't change the leading edge or the incidence on the wing or the tail. The wing then is a RAF48 and all else is the same.<< I went back and checked my notes from that conversation several years ago, and what he actually said was he thought KRs in general should have been about 2 degrees of decalage between main and tail surfaces. I guess I just extrapolated that his was set up that way too. Just think of how fast it might go with an adjustable horizontal stab. Not that 262 mph isn't fast enough or anything... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:59:35 -0500 To: From: "Jim Piunti" Subject: New member Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C238DD.8FA617B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to all, Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm 45 and about to fulfill a lifelong dream and go for the pilot's license - and in the process, build my plane. After scouring the web and looking at dozens of designs, I've decided on the KR-2S - best combination of price, performance, tried and true design, AND looks that I've found - but you know that already. I know this is a marathon and not a sprint, so I'm going to start slow. I just sold my 18' sailboat in order to pay for the flying lessons. This fall, I'm going to evaluate my ability to commit to long term projects by building a replacement 16' fiberglas and ply sailboat. Should take me most of the winter, will replace my old boat and will give me valuable experience in working with glas and epoxy that I can use for building the KR-2S. In the meantime and until the plane is finished, I'll get in as much flight time as I can on Offutt AFB's Cessna 172's. Would like very much to hear from any local builders/owners - if for no other reason than to jaw about our favorite subject. Also, will definitely make it to Red Oak since it's only an hour away. Hope to meet some of you there. Jimmer Omaha, NE jim.piunti@cox.net ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C238DD.8FA617B0-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************