From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 8 Aug 2002 03:45:43 -0000 Issue 492 Date: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:46 PM krnet Digest 8 Aug 2002 03:45:43 -0000 Issue 492 Topics (messages 11916 through 11945): Re: Able Experimental Engines and Alimizer products 11916 by: Deems Herring Re: attaching wings at fuselage. 11917 by: Mark Langford 11935 by: Brian Kraut Re: ADDRESS FOR KR NEWS LETTER? 11918 by: Linda Warner 11919 by: Mark Jones Re: 2 stroke engine 11920 by: Hennie.van.Rooyen.honeywell.com KR Newsletter - Deadline 11921 by: Larry A. Capps spoilerons(ailerons) 11922 by: Audrey and Harold Woods Experimen(tal/ing) was KR> 2 stroke engine 11923 by: Steven Eberhart WAF's 11924 by: NORM-RUTH KR Agent 11925 by: Eric Evezard KR Enthusiasts Forum 11926 by: Larry A. Capps 11927 by: Ron Eason 11929 by: Jerry Mahurin Re: First Flight of KR-2S OE-VPD 11928 by: Christian Kogelmann blunt trailing edges. 11930 by: Audrey and Harold Woods Piano Hinge 11931 by: Jim Morehead 11936 by: Daniel Heath 11941 by: Phillip Matheson Re: eng-tips.com Forum 11932 by: Bob Farmer 11933 by: Bob Farmer forum link 11934 by: Bob Farmer Forums 11937 by: Rick Wilson 11938 by: Mark Langford 11944 by: jim . synergy design 11945 by: Ronald Freiberger Re: tufting feedback, duct flow, updraft cooling 11939 by: Hennie.van.Rooyen.honeywell.com Re: WAF's / Comments Please. 11940 by: Phillip Matheson kr2 stabilizer incidence 11942 by: c00p3rm3.bellsouth.net 2002 Gathering 11943 by: ALTODDKR2.aol.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 01:12:21 -0500 To: "krnet listing" From: "Deems Herring" Subject: Re: KR> Able Experimental Engines and Alimizer products Message-ID: <00ed01c23dd9$6480b7b0$6402a8c0@gloriahome> I think generalities about EFI oversimplifies the situation you are treating systems as simple as 3 sensors (temp, barometric pressure and throttle position) 2 of which can be enclosed in the ECU housing. the same as Multi port sequential systems that monitor more than a dozen engine parameters and control the ignition system as well. The bottom line being: A well designed fuel injection system is something that takes as much work as building the rest the plane and takes an entirely different set of skills. If any of you are designing your own carburetor for your engine I would be interested in seeing the design. Remember that the 2 most common causes of fuel problems by far for homebuilt planes are clogged carburetor or filter and no fuel. EFI will neither prevent or cause either of these problems. As a new member of this group I have been spending most of my timegoing through the archives. If anyone is interested there is a freeware program for use with Outlook express at http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix.php that color codes the text according to who wrote it. Ifind that this makes reading some of these long threded replies much easier. James Wester wrote: > Yes Ron........I can see that you are right into all of this ! I've > been trying to follow the whole EFI issue closely for about three > years now ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: Sent: Monday, August 05, > 2002 12:58 AM Subject: Re: KR> Able Experimental Engines and Alimizer > products > > >> Jo: >> I was just rereading you original email regarding "Able >> Experimental Engines and Alimizer Products". >> >> Ron >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:17:37 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> attaching wings at fuselage. Message-ID: <007101c23e14$ce0d95a0$5f0ca58c@mlangford> Hennie wrote: > I'm currently built to use the AS5046 throughout. I've decided, in the light > of all the cautions presented to me, to add wood on both side of all my > spars to use for the AS5048 inboard and AS5046 outboard airfoils as > suggested. This will give me a higher (deeper) centre section and also > dramatically strenghten all of my spars. And then you write: > I bet that one could actually built a 350 > lbs KR2 going this way and you'll end up having a very nice flying aircraft, > guarranteed! Starting out by adding 6 pounds of completely useless spar material is not the way to try to build the lightest KR possible. If you start down this road, you will eventually discover how folks are managing to build 800 pound KRs. As was mentioned several weeks ago, the spars are not the weak point in the KR, it's the wood surrounding the bolts that hold the WAFs to the spar caps that's going to crush. You can do what you want, but I've adopted a plan of "just do what it takes to do it right" when it comes to stuff like spars, so if you really want to go to the AS5048 at the root, I'd bite the bullet and slice the spars apart longways and rebuild them, using the same caps but longer verticals between the caps, leaving you with a light, strong spar, and extra room inside for fuel tank capacity and stuff like bellcranks. If the plywood faces are already on them, run them through a planer set to the depth of the plywood and plane it and the glue joint off, which can be done in a matter of minutes. If the center spar is already mounted, you're gonna have a heck of a time adding spruce to the top and bottom while not adding stress risers where the spars go through the fuselage walls anyway, and I'd be tempted to just go with the 16% and be done with it, rather than compromise the integrity of the fuselage/mainspar joint by cutting it out and reinstalling it. But if all you're trying to do is make the "wings"stronger, Don's analysis of several weeks ago makes it clear that the way to do that is improve the bolted connection mentioned above. Sam Sayer emailed me with his method of doing that very simply. Just overbore the 3/16" WAF holes (through the caps, not the WAF) to a quarter inch, and then use T-88 to glue 1/4" OD .035 wall aluminum tubing into the hole. After the glue cures, come back and drill and ream the tubing to .1875 for your WAF attach bolts, and you'll have gained the benefit of having more bolt bearing area on the spar caps. You might even drill and ream the tubing first, and assemble the WAFs to the spars at the same time you glue the tubing into place, assuring that you'd have a tight joint with no slop. Personally, if I were to do it again, I'd dispense with WAFs altogether and laminate the AS5048/16 spar caps from 1/4" strips, bent just inside the fuselage for dihedral, for a perfectly straight wing from root to tip, with continuous spars from tip to tip. This would allow the full span flaps that you want. It sounds like removing the wings is important to you though, so you could do the bent spar thing and still use the WAFs with the spar caps butted up against each other and have the continuous flaps that you want, leaving the joint where it is in the plans... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 20:45:47 -0400 To: Mark Langford From: Brian Kraut CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> attaching wings at fuselage. Message-ID: <3D51BF3B.9050304@earthlink.net> I have to agree with that. If I were building one from scratch I would do away with the fittings also. Mark Langford wrote: > > >Personally, if I were to do it again, I'd dispense with WAFs altogether and >laminate the AS5048/16 spar caps from 1/4" strips, bent just inside the >fuselage for dihedral, for a perfectly straight wing from root to tip, with >continuous spars from tip to tip. This would allow the full span flaps that >you want. It sounds like removing the wings is important to you though, so >you could do the bent spar thing and still use the WAFs with the spar caps >butted up against each other and have the continuous flaps that you want, >leaving the joint where it is in the plans... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:30:27 -0400 (EDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) Subject: Fwd: KR> ADDRESS FOR KR NEWS LETTER? Message-ID: <25354-3D5120F3-102@storefull-2174.public.lawson.webtv.net> --WebTV-Mail-23087-51 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hi Dave. The address I show for the newsletter is; KR Newsletter 10S485 Book Road Naperville Il. 60564 Larry's e-address is ; lacapps@attbi.com I don't know if that S really belongs in the street #, but that's what he sent out. I think I'd try e-mailing him. John Sickafoose Naples, Fl --WebTV-Mail-23087-51 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-2110.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.213.120) by storefull-2173.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 21:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailinglists.org (server1.mailinglists.org [63.160.175.18]) by smtpin-2110.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with SMTP id 4AA39FE14 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 21:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 18100 invoked by alias); 7 Aug 2002 04:22:48 -0000 Mailing-List: contact krnet-help@mailinglists.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Delivered-To: mailing list krnet@mailinglists.org Received: (qmail 18091 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2002 04:22:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20020807042324.43168.qmail@web14702.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 21:23:24 -0700 (PDT) From: David Hartz To: "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" , "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: KR> ADDRESS FOR KR NEWS LETTER? I NEED THE ADDRESS FOR THE NEW KR NEWS LETTER.I NEED TO CHANGE MY MAILING ADDRESS. DAVE > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files --WebTV-Mail-23087-51-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:41:32 -0500 To: From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> ADDRESS FOR KR NEWS LETTER? Message-ID: <001a01c23e18$2479e260$c5991f41@wi.rr.com> Larry's address is correct with the S inserted in the numbers. There are addresses in the Midwest like N8W22520 Johnson Drive. These addresses are like latitude and longitude on a street map. The location can be pin pointed with ease on a map by anyone, especially emergency crews. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Warner" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:30 AM Subject: Fwd: KR> ADDRESS FOR KR NEWS LETTER? > Hi Dave. The address I show for the newsletter is; > KR Newsletter > 10S485 Book Road > Naperville Il. 60564 > > Larry's e-address is ; > lacapps@attbi.com > > I don't know if that S really belongs in the street #, but that's what > he sent out. > > I think I'd try e-mailing him. > > John Sickafoose > Naples, Fl > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 03:04:50 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Hennie.van.Rooyen@honeywell.com Subject: FW: KR> 2 stroke engine Hi Bob, Now there's a man to my liking! Bob, I'll help you with pleasure. A point to remember: If you plan your KR2 from day one for a two stroke engine, I'm convinced that you can built it to have an empty weight of only 350lbs or so. This means that you could get away with even less hp and the Rotax 503 or 582 might be a good choice as they are far cheaper. Now, I KNOW I'll be reprimanded again for thinking so, but I allready had a Rotax 503 built into my airframe. I no longer have this engine, but I DO have a Cuyuna 42 hp engine (the twin carb version). I need to fabricate a reduction system for it and plan to install to proper long tune pipes under my airframe belly. Thus I'm looking at roughly 50 - 55 hp. My aircraft will have 20 ft tapered wings only with removable 2 ft extensions on each side. My aircraft will NOT weigh more than 450lbs when done and I'm going to fly at first with this engine. The point I'm making here, if it flies well with two aboard at close to 5000 ft above sea level, a standard Rotax 503 engine would work nicely for a very light weight KR2 which would have slighly more wing area. O.k, here comes the bullets!!! Let me duck quickly... Regards, Hennie "If others are looking to use a two stroke engine, as I am, they might look at the Hirth 3203 which weighs 98 lbs with elec start & gearbox. It produces 126 ft lbs & 63 HP with 2.29 reduction @ 2620 (prop speed). Max. 65 HP @ 6300 (engine RPM) or the Hirth F30. If Hennie or anyone else would like to help me build my engine comparison page" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:34:12 -0500 To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: KR Newsletter - Deadline Message-ID: <002f01c23e27$e1b38340$0500a8c0@schpankme> KRNet, Our current subscriber base for the KR Newsletter is as follows: 57 total subscribers ------------------------- 16 new subscribers (from 660 on the KRNet) 19 re-newels 16 repaid (Monte still owes monies) 06 requested to pay via PayPal After talking with many of the current subscribers, most have asked Monte Miller for their subscription balance to be refunded, Monte has told each and everyone that calls him - "I sent Larry Capps everything related to your subscription and the KR Newsletter, Larry is the guy that has everything and will now be sending you the newsletter". Well naturally, upon hearing this they call me, and I tell them the truth, that Monte has not forward me their subscription balances and the fact is without more subscribers or people re-subscribing we cannot continue publishing the KR Newsletter. Once they hear the truth they call Monte back and pressure him further to do the right thing and refund their remaining subscription balance, Monte then tells them - "There is no monies left to refund, everything related to the KR Newsletter was forwarded to Larry Capps". Les Palmer (Palmer's Machine Shop (972) 241-4387) called and talked at length with me about his conversations with Monte, and was very disturb at Monte's unwillingness to refund his subscription balance or to forward his balance on to me as suggested. I think Les used the term "Monte has obfuscated with our funds hasn't he?". For me, my biggest problem is what Monte is telling people privately; many have called or emailed me complaining that I'm ripping them off, or am requiring them to pay a second time for services they have already paid for. This cannot be further from the truth, in fact I'm willing to help the 219 subscribers still owed the newsletter even if Monte will not do his ethical duty and refund or forward the subscription balances. In addition, the only way I can assist further is if we had received enough new subscriptions to offset those still owed by Monte (106 - six months or more of the newsletter). Unfortunately, this has not happened. So here's the bottom line, we are at deadline. We have not received enough new subscribers to keep the KR Newsletter alive. I am therefore returning all checks in my possession to people who have subscribed with me to the newsletter. For those that have included an additional amount for the CD (27 years of the KR Newsletter), we will send them their CD along with a check for the newsletter subscription amount paid. Best Regards, Larry A. Capps KR Newsletter Naperville, IL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 11:36:18 -0400 To: From: "Audrey and Harold Woods" Subject: spoilerons(ailerons) Message-ID: <01ea01c23e28$2caf5fe0$b0046418@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_01E7_01C23E06.A540ABC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At one time I intended to use spoilerons instead of ailerons. Our Dept. = of Transport of in Canada gave me such a hard time and demanded so much = proof that I gave up. I had built a model wing with spoilerons. Tests = showed that it was effective. I settled for spoilers on each wing as in = gliders and used ailerons. The wing is a GAW-1 type. It should fly next = year. Harold Woods. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/02 ------=_NextPart_000_01E7_01C23E06.A540ABC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 11:12:32 -0500 To: Hennie.van.Rooyen@honeywell.com, krnet@mailinglists.org From: Steven Eberhart Subject: Experimen(tal/ing) was KR> 2 stroke engine Message-ID: <3D5146F0.4080501@newtech.com> Hennie.van.Rooyen@honeywell.com wrote: > O.k, here comes the bullets!!! Let me duck quickly... > > Regards, > Hennie I have often thought that the KR bunch would be better served by two separate mail lists rather than the one homogenized list. The first one should be devoted to stock plans built KR's. Or, at least KR's that don't deviate from plans as far as airfoils, tail area, etc. THe other group would be for the Experimenting Experimental KR builders. Members would be free to subscribe to one or both of the lists. End of war. THe only guide lines should be, if you are on the stock list, and some one brings up major modifications your reply would be "That question might be better served on the Experimenting list". No need to rant and rave about keeping the design pure, just direct the poster to the other list. If you only subscribe to one or the other of the lists your email traffic should go down. If you subscribe to both you should still receive less mail than you are now receiving since we would be eliminating the "keep the design pure" responses. Just a thought guys. If this had been in place a couple of years ago I might be finishing a modified KR rather than an RV-7. I just got tired of all of the bickering. Steven Eberhart working on RV-7A wings N14SE reserved ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:42:13 -0700 To: "krnet" From: "NORM-RUTH" Subject: WAF's Message-ID: <002401c23e4a$884f5e00$10543b41@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C23E0F.DABAC520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As perhaps of some interest, the Taylor Titch, same designer as Taylor = Monoplaane, had the spars joined at middle inside the plane. Not too good an idea, I believe. Norm ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C23E0F.DABAC520-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:17:09 +0200 To: "KR MAIL" From: "Eric Evezard" Subject: KR Agent Message-ID: <001701c23e34$b2dc51c0$28ce07c4@erick> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C23E3E.A4C40740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Netters, Hennie, is the KR agent you are referring to ,the late Sakkie Halgren = ?Just what do you mean ? Are you inferring that people who build to = plans die and those that dont survive? You say ,in effect that Sakkie = used to pick you out for making changes.-youre alive and he is = buried.Please elucidate. ! ! ! Sakkie and the builder were both killed = in a KR that many say should never have taken to the sky.Sakkie,at that = time CEO of Rand Robinson (SA),really helped to make the KR take = S.Africa by storm in the seventies.Untiring,he demonstrated the KR,all = over SA.He availed himself to test fly ,and convert the builder to the = KR.At that time I was heavily involved in gliding and homebuilt gliders = and was devastated when I read even the preliminary accident = report.Unknown to Sakkie many changes had been made.It was suggested = that the KR took off and could not lower the nose.--both were = killed.Investigation showed that the builder had only 5 deg down = elevator.The joystick assembly was not bolted to the mainspar--only held = on with self tapping screws usually used in metall.It was suggested that = in a desperate attempt to get the nose down,the stick and mount were = ripped out the spar.Photographs showed quite clearly that the stick had = been forced forward.It was suspected (with reason) that the spinner was = filled with lead to correct tail heaviness.However the spinner was never = found.Also unknown to Sakkie (obviously) most of the bolts holding the = wing attach fittings were not in safety.They were not even protruding = past the nuts locking fibre.It was a practice to have at least 3 threads = past the nut.Many other bolts were not in safety.Aluminuim spacers were = required for the undercarriage assembly.The builder (if one could call = him a builder) substituted sawn off sections off a broomstick ! ! !. as = spacers,also I am sure unknown to Sakkie.The centre secton spars and the = outer wing spars were badly crushed at the WAFs owing to over torque of = the bolts.The structural integrity was severly compromised.One of the = most heartbreaking photos I have ever seen was that of the stick ripped = off the spar in an attempt to get the nose down What went through = Sakkies mind when he saw the assembly held onto the spar with self = tapping screws instead of bolts and just rip off I dont know.This is = just the tip of the iceberg I am told.The final inquiry revealed = more.This accident reverberated throughout the homebuilding = fraternity.and spelled the end of the KR for a considerable time.That = was about 30 years ago.Thank goodness the KR still survived = eventually.---a remarkable aircraft conceived 50 years ahead of its = time.I do hope I am wrong Hennie but your remarks,appeared to exhibit = callous indifference.Sakkie may be buried,(no fault of his) and you are = alive,but be careful,you may be next. Let us all be careful out there and up there. Very Best Regards to All (without exception) Eric Evezard, South Africa. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C23E3E.A4C40740-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:26:58 -0500 To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: KR Enthusiasts Forum Message-ID: <003701c23e37$a2e2a140$0500a8c0@schpankme> As to the discussion below about dual email lists, utilizing a "Forum" might be a better approach. With a forum, one could still receive email or email responses if desired, as well as scan through subjects of interest. Of course, there are likes and dislikes of a forum, this mainly due to individual preference. You can make up your own mind; purely submitted as Food for Thought. The URL listed is a current Forum for the Cozy Community, as an example. http://h10006.racknine.com/~admin25/forum/ Regards, Larry A. Capps KR Newsletter Naperville, IL -----Original Message----- I have often thought that the KR bunch would be better served by two separate mail lists rather than the one homogenized list. The first one should be devoted to stock plans built KR's. THe other group would be for the Experimenting Experimental KR builders. Members would be free to subscribe to one or both of the lists. Steven Eberhart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:34:18 -0700 To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" , From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> KR Enthusiasts Forum Message-Id: <200208071034.AA27132236@jrl-engineering.com> Go to the Cozy url it's reley well organized it's has everything you need. Really!! Worth consideration. KRRon ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Larry A. Capps" Reply-To: Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:26:58 -0500 >As to the discussion below about dual email lists, utilizing a "Forum" might >be a better approach. With a forum, one could still receive email or email >responses if desired, as well as scan through subjects of interest. Of >course, there are likes and dislikes of a forum, this mainly due to >individual preference. You can make up your own mind; purely submitted as >Food for Thought. > >The URL listed is a current Forum for the Cozy Community, as an example. >http://h10006.racknine.com/~admin25/forum/ > > >Regards, > >Larry A. Capps >KR Newsletter >Naperville, IL > > >-----Original Message----- >I have often thought that the KR bunch would be better served by two >separate mail lists rather than the one homogenized list. > >The first one >should be devoted to stock plans built KR's. > >THe other >group would be for the Experimenting Experimental KR builders. Members >would be free to subscribe to one or both of the lists. > >Steven Eberhart > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > -- Ronald R. Eason Sr. Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. Jim Eason V.P, 770-446-1291, Atlanta, Georgia Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:40:06 -0400 To: From: "Jerry Mahurin" Subject: Re: KR> KR Enthusiasts Forum Message-ID: >interest. Of >course, there are likes and dislikes of a forum, this >mainly due to >individual preference. You can make up your own mind; >purely submitted as >Food for Thought. > Another forum is the Teenie II Forum. Try it out at http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/40291 There is already a lot of very good VW info out there from Bob Hoover..........!!!! Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC http://kr-builder.org http://jerrymahurin.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 20:27:50 +0200 From: "Christian Kogelmann" Cc: "Krnet" Subject: Re: KR> First Flight of KR-2S OE-VPD Message-ID: <000101c23e3e$84436920$491c2e3e@aptivacomputer> Climb and Cruise maybe a little low, but approach is certainly ok if not too high. It seems like the plane floats a 100 feet more with ervery knot above a good landing speed. I did not have a GPS comparison, but we think, that the static pressure pickup might be reading wrong. I will get some more data out after more testing. CU Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: Christian Kogelmann Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:02 AM Subject: Re: KR> First Flight of KR-2S OE-VPD > Looks to me like you climb, cruise, and approach speeds are all a little slow. > Are you sure your airspeed indicator is working correctly? Did you have a > GPS to compare the speed to? > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:32:38 -0400 To: From: "Audrey and Harold Woods" Subject: blunt trailing edges. Message-ID: <010c01c23e59$f4b1ce20$b0046418@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0109_01C23E38.6D19E720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take a look at the trailing edge of the GAW-1 It is about 1/2 " thick. = If you make a simple drawing of the trailing edge , draw in the rotating = vortex of air that will exist in this region. It will rotate such that = the top of the vortex moves downward along the flat trailing edge. When = the wing nears the stall , instead of the separation occuring at the = trailing edge, this downward motion tends to hold the air onto the top = of the trailing edge longer, thus delaying the stall. This makes it a = little safer to operate the wing near the stall. Harold Woods. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/02 ------=_NextPart_000_0109_01C23E38.6D19E720-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:03:30 -0700 To: KR- Net From: Jim Morehead Subject: Piano Hinge Message-ID: KRNet, I was in the in the Los Angles area near Aircraft Spruce, so I thought = I would save some money on freight charges and pick up the piano hinges for the =B3ailerons=B2 and for the stock KR-2 =B3canopy. I wrote the wrong Part number. What I bought was MS20001P3 Which is open width 1 1/2 inches and .040 thick. What I should have bought was MS20001P5 which is 1 3/4 inch wide and .051 thick. I remember past discussions that the aileron hinges were over kill. If the smaller hinge would be safe to use for the ailerons, then I would only send back the 36 inch hinge for the canopy. Thanks for your thoughts. Jim Morehead Cameron Park, CA Looking forward to Red Oak, IA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:49:09 -0700 To: "KR- Net" From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Piano Hinge Message-ID: Jim, I used 4 3" extruded hinges on the ailerons for the Little Beast. Maybe that was 3... anyway, no problems. The only thing that, later, made me think that I should have used full length hinges, is that they act as a gap seal. The way I did it, left gaps just like on spam cans. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.325 / Virus Database: 182 - Release Date: 2/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:37:13 +1000 To: "KR- Net" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Piano Hinge Message-ID: <005c01c23e87$cf9746a0$0100a8c0@LocalHost> Jim wrote: What I bought was MS20001P3 Which is open width 1 1/2 inches and .040 thick. Jim I have an Australian approved Control drawing, that lists the hinge as MS20257P4 This is 1-1/2 " .040 " thick. A/Spruse lists your MS20001P3 AS 1-1/4" BY .040". Extruded.(page 72) They are saying that the extruded closed hinge is not needed . I can only go on what was on the approved drawing. This is the drawing I sent to Mark Langford. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 NSW Australia. See our VW engines at; www.vw-engines.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:43:15 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Bob Farmer" Subject: Re: KR> eng-tips.com Forum Message-ID: <007b01c23e6c$35c52da0$be5e62d8@oemcomputer> Another forum that might help with some design questions. http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?spid=2&newpid=2&CFID=80849285&CFTOK EN=43681456 Link to this & other forums are on http://www.foamhead.com/Links.html Bob Farmer rfarmer@naxs.net or foamhead@ls.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Mahurin" KR Enthusiasts Forum > Another forum is the Teenie II Forum. Try it out at > http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/40291 > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:48:10 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "Bob Farmer" Subject: Re: KR> eng-tips.com Forum Message-ID: <009301c23e6c$e379de00$be5e62d8@oemcomputer> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Farmer" To: "Bob Farmer" Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:46 PM Subject: Re: KR> eng-tips.com Forum > oops link was not right in other mail > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Farmer" > To: "krnet" > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:43 PM > Subject: Re: KR> eng-tips.com Forum > > > > Another forum that might help with some design questions. > > > http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?spid=2&newpid=2&CFID=80849285&CFTOK > EN=43681456 > Link to this & other forums are on > > http://www.foamhead.com/Links.html > > > > Bob Farmer > > rfarmer@naxs.net > > or > > foamhead@ls.net > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerry Mahurin" > > KR Enthusiasts Forum > > > > > > > Another forum is the Teenie II Forum. Try it out at > > > http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/40291 > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:51:20 -0400 To: "krnet" From: "rfarmer" Subject: forum link Message-ID: <00a701c23e6d$551cbfa0$be5e62d8@oemcomputer> ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C23E4B.CD4ADCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One more time http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?spid=3D2&newpid=3D2&CFID=3D80850= 509&CFTOKEN=3D39640617 ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C23E4B.CD4ADCE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:15:17 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: Forums Message-ID: <20020808011517.59971.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I went to a few of the forums to see if I liked it and there was so much advertising there that I couldn't read posts for closing advertising pages. I even had one pop up that I had to shut down and restart my computer to close. I think I like the kr net like it is. We just need to act like grown men instead of letting the kid in us show so much. We can reserve that for when we are flying. Just my thoughts, Rick Wilson. rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:26:27 -0500 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Forums Message-ID: <00bc01c23e7a$9df38670$5600a8c0@athlon600> I could set up another list pretty quickly, identical to this one but named "KRmods" or something similar. The only thing is that I'll bet some folks would start posting stuff to both lists just to make sure they got the word out to everybody, actually leading to more mail for those on both lists, so maybe it's OK like it is. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:40:54 -0700 To: From: "jim @ synergy design" Subject: forums Message-ID: <001c01c23e95$c93c0bc0$0101a8c0@pavilion> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C23E5B.1B96AA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I vote to leave the KR net the way it is. If you don't like someone's = post, just ignore it. Why cant we all just get along? Jim Sporka=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C23E5B.1B96AA00-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:46:44 -0400 To: "KRNET" , "Mark Langford" From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> Forums Message-ID: Just keep on truckin'. We've developed this as we went, and it works well. And, you're doing a swell job, Mark Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:26 PM To: KRNET@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Forums I could set up another list pretty quickly, identical to this one but named "KRmods" or something similar. The only thing is that I'll bet some folks w ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:41:39 -0700 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Hennie.van.Rooyen@honeywell.com Subject: FW: KR> tufting feedback, duct flow, updraft cooling Hi Mark, This much I can contribute: On my first KR2, I installed the carburator right in rhe middle top section of the engine, spaced equally between the cylinders. I buit a pressure scoop right on top of the cowling, slightly to the front of the carburator. It was thus located at about one third the lenght of the cowling backwards from the front at the top. However, when I started doing high speed taxi trials, reaching ground speeds of up to 80 mph, it created such a low pressue at this area that it actually sucked the vapourized fuel out of the carb opening through this intake scoop against my canopy. I could not go faster than 80 mph as not enough fuel went into the carburator outlet to the cylinders. I was amazed by this as my cowling looked the same as most out their and I did not expect such a low pressure area at that location with the scoop (air intake) and all. Regards, Hennie -----Original Message----- From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net] Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 4:26 PM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> tufting feedback, duct flow, updraft cooling ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:15:46 +1000 To: "krnet" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> WAF's / Comments Please. Message-ID: <005b01c23e87$cec4b460$0100a8c0@LocalHost> Hi all, I'm getting very confuesed with the waf ISSUE. I have been talking to a chap in Sydney who is flying a Kr2SS under U/Light rego, it has ? 27 feet w/span to meet the lower stall speed. he tells me that my standard Kr2 with the moulded extended wing skins should have larger WAF bolts 7/16", and to weld 125 4130 brackets to the end of the main spar WAF 's to make them twice as thick. and weld only on three points. ( because of the reduced rad. of the bracket). And to increase my rear H/S to 7 feet , again because of the longer wing. Comments PLEASE. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 NSW Australia. See our VW engines at; www.vw-engines.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:04:33 -0400 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Subject: kr2 stabilizer incidence Message-Id: <20020808030433.WVNK14129.imf16bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> Hi netters, I'm Gene Cooper,kr2 const. book 63 #6019.I have an up to now plans built aircraft about 60%.I missed the NOTE: 8.31 page 57, stabilizer should be at 0% incidence with top longerons. Stab commonly needs 3/32 shim under front spar. Question... will this cause a climb factor to much to be countered by trim and or elevator controls. Any input welcome. Thanks, Gene ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:24:42 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: ALTODDKR2@aol.com Subject: 2002 Gathering Message-ID: <11b.14833105.2a833e7a@aol.com> Are any details about the 2002 Gathering available? ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************