From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 23 Aug 2002 12:22:34 -0000 Issue 503 Date: Friday, August 23, 2002 5:23 AM krnet Digest 23 Aug 2002 12:22:34 -0000 Issue 503 Topics (messages 12220 through 12236): Re: Aircraft Spruce catalog 12220 by: Jerry Mahurin instrument holes 12221 by: CHOCTAWCWR.aol.com Instrument Panel 12222 by: Bob Lee Tracing Plans, etc. 12223 by: Sam Sayer 12224 by: Sam Sayer 12225 by: Sam Sayer Niebauer KR article 12226 by: Mark Langford EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In:  Aircraft Judging 12227 by: Richard Green test 12228 by: Peg and Mike Meyer Re: Cabin heat/air box 12229 by: Phillip Matheson 12233 by: John and Janet Martindale Whelen strobe cable 12230 by: Brian Kraut Hapi alternator 12231 by: Brian Kraut 12234 by: chris gardiner 12236 by: Dean Selby Re: \aircraft wire 12232 by: CHOCTAWCWR.aol.com Re: Outer spar lengths - Warning! Contains modification info 12235 by: chris gardiner Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:29:06 -0400 To: Jim irwin From: "Jerry Mahurin" Cc: "KRnet" Subject: Re: Aircraft Spruce catalog Message-ID: Jim, Thank you very much for your response to my posting on the KRnet. I appreciate your offer of replacement of materials; but as stated on the original posting, I do not blame Aircraft Spruce for my mistakes. It does seem obvious that the error was mine. Please excuse any inconveniences I may have caused through my posting on the KRNet. I am a long time customer of Aircraft Spruce and will continue to be so. On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:33:36 -0700 Jim irwin wrote: >Dear Jerry, > >We have reviewed your comments to the KR newsgroup >regarding your attempt to >use the instrument panel cut-out diagrams in our catalog >as a template to >cut out your panel. As reader Mark Jones pointed out, >these diagrams have >never been intended to be used as actual templates (the >diagrams have been >the same in our catalog for 30 years) as they are not to >actual scale. On >the same page we offer Instrument Layout Template (P/N >12-14600 @ $9.95) >which works very well as an actual template. There is no >³error² in our >catalog, but we are sorry for your misunderstanding of >the diagrams. If you >need material to replace the panel that you laid out >incorrectly, please let >us know and we will be glad to offer special prices to >your for that >material. Let us know of we can be of assistance in this >matter. > >Regards, > >Jim Irwin >President, Aircraft Spruce > Jerry Mahurin Lugoff, SC http://kr-builder.org http://jerrymahurin.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:07:39 EDT To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: CHOCTAWCWR@aol.com Subject: instrument holes Message-ID: <1b9.5229dd3.2a94ea9b@aol.com> --part1_1b9.5229dd3.2a94ea9b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as i recall, there is an instrument planner floating around somewhere that the kr netters were susposed to be able to borrow, i think someone has it stuck in the corner and no one is getting use of it. charles robison kr factory located at atlanta, tx --part1_1b9.5229dd3.2a94ea9b_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:06:00 -0400 To: "KRnet \(E-mail\)" From: "Bob Lee" Subject: Instrument Panel Message-ID: <001b01c2495e$ef6a4db0$040c0b0a@cheryl> KRnetters, When I built the instrument panel for N52BL I cut it out of a piece of 7075 aluminum. The only reason for 7075 was I found a 2' by 4' sheet in a sale bin at Oshkosh for $10.00. I laid out the instrument panel using the standard spacing of 3 1/2" between instruments (Sport Plane Construction Techniques Page 268, by Tony Bingelis). I built stiffeners using 1 1/2" aluminum L for both vertical and horizontal planes with 1" holes cut in the stiffeners for lightness. I cut the instrument holes with an instrument die. It made very nice clean holes. When I started installing the instruments I found that most instruments do not fit side by side at the standard spacing. It took some work with a file on the faces between the instruments to get everything into the panel. If you borrow instruments to build your panel, you might find that the ones that you purchase eventually don't fit. When I purchased my instruments, I was able to get a 90 Day from first flight warrantee that is listed on the bill of sale. I chose used instruments to keep the cost down. My instrument panel has been built for several years waiting on the airframe to be completed. I hope some of these ideas might help those that have not yet built the panel. You can see what my instrument panel looks like at http://flyboybob.com/cockpit_photo.htm. Regards, Bob Lee _____________________________________ e-mail: mailto:bob@flyboybob.com web site: http://flyboybob.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:41:14 -0400 To: "KR Mailing Lists" From: "Sam Sayer" Subject: Tracing Plans, etc. Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C24953.174E0EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Netters: With respect to the aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co., the dimensions on pa= ges 359 & 360 are correct. It is unfortunate that one of our KR builders= used the drawings as full size templates. Never-Never trace a blueprint or a drawing that someone else has made. M= ost of the time a Draftsman will make a drawing on the blueprint to show = what the part may look like (maybe not to scale) , but the dimensions are= the what the part is intended to be. Several years ago a friend of mine was building a Super Emeraude in Flori= da while I was living in Michigan. He traced a part from the blueprint a= nd cut out 20 pieces and sent them to me with a copy of the print. When = I laid the dimensions per print one hole was outside of the metal. Had t= o scrap his parts and make new ones using the print dimensions. So to av= oid mistakes check the dimensions not the outline of the drawing. Now with aircraft Spruce making things right is not always true. In one o= f their catalogs a few years ago they listed both the Lamb & Shin tires u= nder different part numbers. I ordered two (2) Lamp tires for my KR at a price of 6 to 7 dollars more= than the Shin. They sent me Shin tires. I called aircraft Spruce in Gr= iffin , Georgia and complained about overcharging me for Shim tires. The= y told me to send them back to California with an explanation. The retur= n shipment was Shin tires and they were substitute for Lamb tires and the= y would not refund the difference in price of the tires, plus I had to pa= y shipping charges both ways. If Aircraft Spruce has to split your order they will charge you shipping = cost for each split. Wicks will only charge once per order for shipping and no shipping charge= s on the back order Now I only order from Aircraft Spruce when Wicks does= not stock the item. Sam Sayer karibird37@msn.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : ht= tp://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C24953.174E0EE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:41:14 -0400 To: "KR Mailing Lists" From: "Sam Sayer" Subject: Tracing Plans, etc. Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C24953.174E0EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Netters: With respect to the aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co., the dimensions on pa= ges 359 & 360 are correct. It is unfortunate that one of our KR builders= used the drawings as full size templates. Never-Never trace a blueprint or a drawing that someone else has made. M= ost of the time a Draftsman will make a drawing on the blueprint to show = what the part may look like (maybe not to scale) , but the dimensions are= the what the part is intended to be. Several years ago a friend of mine was building a Super Emeraude in Flori= da while I was living in Michigan. He traced a part from the blueprint a= nd cut out 20 pieces and sent them to me with a copy of the print. When = I laid the dimensions per print one hole was outside of the metal. Had t= o scrap his parts and make new ones using the print dimensions. So to av= oid mistakes check the dimensions not the outline of the drawing. Now with aircraft Spruce making things right is not always true. In one o= f their catalogs a few years ago they listed both the Lamb & Shin tires u= nder different part numbers. I ordered two (2) Lamp tires for my KR at a price of 6 to 7 dollars more= than the Shin. They sent me Shin tires. I called aircraft Spruce in Gr= iffin , Georgia and complained about overcharging me for Shim tires. The= y told me to send them back to California with an explanation. The retur= n shipment was Shin tires and they were substitute for Lamb tires and the= y would not refund the difference in price of the tires, plus I had to pa= y shipping charges both ways. If Aircraft Spruce has to split your order they will charge you shipping = cost for each split. Wicks will only charge once per order for shipping and no shipping charge= s on the back order Now I only order from Aircraft Spruce when Wicks does= not stock the item. Sam Sayer karibird37@msn.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : ht= tp://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C24953.174E0EE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:54:14 -0400 To: "KR Mailing Lists" From: "Sam Sayer" Subject: Fw: Tracing Plans, etc. Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C24954.E8403E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Sayer Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 8:41 PM To: KR Mailing Lists Subject: Tracing Plans, etc. =20 Hi Netters: =20 With respect to the aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co., the dimensions on pa= ges 359 & 360 are correct. It is unfortunate that one of our KR builders= used the drawings as full size templates. Never-Never trace a blueprint or a drawing that someone else has made. M= ost of the time a Draftsman will make a drawing on the blueprint to show = what the part may look like (maybe not to scale) , but the dimensions are= the what the part is intended to be. Several years ago a friend of mine was building a Super Emeraude in Flori= da while I was living in Michigan. He traced a part from the blueprint a= nd cut out 20 pieces and sent them to me with a copy of the print. When = I laid the dimensions per print one hole was outside of the metal. Had t= o scrap his parts and make new ones using the print dimensions. So to av= oid mistakes check the dimensions not the outline of the drawing. Now with aircraft Spruce making things right is not always true. In one o= f their catalogs a few years ago they listed both the Lamb & Shin tires u= nder different part numbers. I ordered two (2) Lamp tires for my KR at a price of 6 to 7 dollars more= than the Shin. They sent me Shin tires. I called aircraft Spruce in Gr= iffin , Georgia and complained about overcharging me for Shim tires. The= y told me to send them back to California with an explanation. The retur= n shipment was Shin tires and they were substitute for Lamb tires and the= y would not refund the difference in price of the tires, plus I had to pa= y shipping charges both ways. If Aircraft Spruce has to split your order they will charge you shipping = cost for each split. Wicks will only charge once per order for shipping and no shipping charge= s on the back order Now I only order from Aircraft Spruce when Wicks does= not stock the item. =20 Sam Sayer karibird37@msn.com Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.c= omGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.ms= n.com ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C24954.E8403E00-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:34:19 -0500 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Niebauer KR article Message-ID: <001001c2497c$094c6890$5600a8c0@athlon600> NetHeads, One of the things that Jim Faughn presented at his Osh 30 year KR forum was info from some old KR articles, one of which was a 1983 issue of Sportsman Pilot. I had no idea that Sportsman Pilot was still around, but once I discovered it, I subscribed for two years, and requested two back issues, including the Niebauer KR (Sweet Mildred) article done in 1983. I thought it was interesting reading, and it's now located at http://www.fly-kr.com/niebauer.pdf , with permission from editor Jack Cox. This is some pretty interesting reading, and offers a little tidbit of aviation history. Although I claimed to have read everything ever written about the KR, this is the first time I've seen this article. I apologize for the low quality, but the one I scanned at 144 dpi took up 4 meg, which is almost the 5 meg limit of the website itself! I've also put the much clearer 4 meg version at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/niebauer.pdf if you have a cable or fast modem and don't mind waiting for the download. I'll be scanning more of this stuff and posting it as I get permission from the appropriate folks. The other back issue is on Skip Carden's (Don Betchan's) KR, which I'll scan and post later. Sportsman Pilot's web site is at http://www.sportsmanpilot.com , and I think you'll agree that the quality of this magazine is top rate. Advertising is limited to the back cover, and it's all grassroots homebuilding and restoration stuff. It's published four times yearly, and costs $12 a year. Yeah, I know I should be working on my plane. I have been, and will do an update to my website before the weekend is over. I guess I'm overdue, but I HAVE been working on it, tying up loose ends all over the place. Nothing big, just little stuff, but it's helping... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 05:45:18 -0500 To: From: "Richard Green" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?_EAA_Southwest_Regional_Fly-In:_=A0Aircraft_Judging?= Message-ID: Just passing this info along, In case any of you are interested and don't happen to know about this. I went last year, and there was a pretty good airshow at the event a year ago. RG -----Original Message----- From: Chapters [mailto:Chapters@eaamail.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 11:38 AM To: EAA-Chapters@eaamail.org Subject: EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In: Aircraft Judging Dear EAA Member, The EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In will be held September 27-28 in Abilene, Texas at the Abilene Regional Airport (ABI). For detailed information on this great fly-in go to: http://www.swrfi.org The EAA SWRFI is looking for volunteers to help with AIRCRAFT JUDGING. Awards will be given for: Best of Show Best of Class Plans Homebuilt Kit Antique Classic Contemporary Warbird Official EAA Judging Standards can be found at: http://www.eaa.org/judging/index.html **VOLUNTEERS NEEDED** If you are interested in helping with the aircraft judging at the EAA Southwest Regional Fly-In in Abilene, Texas on September 27-28 please contact Lorne Sharp at 806-793-3202 or send an e-mail to LorneSharp@msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:31:49 -0500 To: kr From: Peg and Mike Meyer Subject: test Message-id: <000801c24a1a$f1b6f660$f92cfea9@o0c8u6> --Boundary_(ID_jJJMUaMGQ646Vc5Z3XCMmg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT test --Boundary_(ID_jJJMUaMGQ646Vc5Z3XCMmg)-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 07:19:28 +1000 To: "krnet" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Cabin heat/air box Message-ID: <001301c24a21$9abf4e00$bf96dccb@Matheson> Tony Bingelis shows a good location of an air vent He shows a vent infront of the landing wheel leg, on the underside, just under the leading edge. Page204 Sportplane Construction Techniques. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 See our engines at: http://www.vw-engines.com/ ----- Original Message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:27:33 +1000 To: "Phillip Matheson" , "krnet" From: "John and Janet Martindale" Subject: Re: KR> Cabin heat/air box Message-ID: <006001c24a4e$10e2d1c0$88de12d2@m1g0x7> Watch out for exhaust gases John and Janet Martindale 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA ph: 61 2 66584767 ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillip Matheson To: krnet Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:19 AM Subject: Re: KR> Cabin heat/air box > Tony Bingelis shows a good location of an air vent > He shows a vent infront of the landing wheel leg, on the underside, just > under the leading edge. > > Page204 Sportplane Construction Techniques. > > Phil Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.au > 61 3 58833588 > See our engines at: > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:55:14 -0400 To: krnet From: Brian Kraut Subject: Whelen strobe cable Message-ID: <3D656BD2.2010209@earthlink.net> I need to buy cables for my Whelen strobes. I am going to buy the Whelen installation kit because I want to stick with all mil spec teflon insulated wire. Their kit comes with 60' of cable which is twice the amount I need. Anyone out there want to buy the other 30'? Aircraft Spruce has the kit for $58.50. I will sell the second cable for $30.00 including shipping in the U.S. I have some extra Molex connectors and will include all the connectors and pins needed for both ends of the cable and a junction at the wing attach. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:05:30 -0400 To: krnet From: Brian Kraut Subject: Hapi alternator Message-ID: <3D656E3A.4030009@earthlink.net> I have a Diehl accessory case with the Syncro stator. I am told that this alternator(actually it is a generator) was originally sold by HAPI. I am also told that there were problems with magnet pieces coming off. I have 130 hours on the engine. Can anyone tell me if this is a bad enough problem that I should replace the alternator now or were there just a few bad units and mine would have broke already if it was going to. Also, does anyone know of a higher current stator I can get or has anyone rewound the stator to get more current successfully? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:57:55 -0400 To: engalt@earthlink.net From: chris gardiner Cc: krnet Subject: Re: KR> Hapi alternator Message-ID: <3D65A4B3.9040808@attcanada.ca> I suggest you talk to Steve Bennett on this one, Brian. I also asked this question of him and he said you can identify the faulty type by the size of the magnets but I don't remember the exact details .... he will . On the subject of these Diehl case alternators , I haven't been very satisfied with the output . My batteries keep going flat and I suspect that the output of this device is minimal , even at high RPM. I flew around last week with my Digital Voltmeter hooked to the bus and never saw more than 12.2V at any rpm . Can see how the battery is going to charge when it's 13.2V nomimal for a 6 cell lead acid type ? I have the solid sealed block ( diode style ) regulator that came with the GPACS engine. Any suggestions on a better regulator or higher output mod. for this Diehl alternator? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Chris Gardiner C-GKRZ Brian Kraut wrote: > I have a Diehl accessory case with the Syncro stator. I am told that > this alternator(actually it is a generator) was originally sold by > HAPI. I am also told that there were problems with magnet pieces > coming off. I have 130 hours on the engine. Can anyone tell me if > this is a bad enough problem that I should replace the alternator now > or were there just a few bad units and mine would have broke already > if it was going to. > > Also, does anyone know of a higher current stator I can get or has > anyone rewound the stator to get more current successfully? > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For > additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > . > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 07:23:35 -0500 To: , From: "Dean Selby" Cc: "krnet" Subject: Re: KR> Hapi alternator Message-ID: <002b01c24a9f$e8c14170$155818d0@dean> I have a hapi alternator and with everything on, strobes, fuel pump, position lts, gps/com, eis, electronic ign, intercom, and land lt, I still show around 13V around 2000 rpm and 13.5V at 3000. Dean ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris gardiner" To: Cc: "krnet" Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:57 PM Subject: Re: KR> Hapi alternator > I suggest you talk to Steve Bennett on this one, Brian. > > I also asked this question of him and he said you can identify the > faulty type by the size of the magnets but I don't remember the exact > details .... he will . > > On the subject of these Diehl case alternators , I haven't been very > satisfied with the output . My batteries keep going flat and I suspect > that the output of this device is minimal , even at high RPM. > I flew around last week with my Digital Voltmeter hooked to the bus and > never saw more than 12.2V at any rpm . Can see how the battery is going > to charge when it's 13.2V nomimal for a 6 cell lead acid type ? > I have the solid sealed block ( diode style ) regulator that came with > the GPACS engine. > > Any suggestions on a better regulator or higher output mod. for this > Diehl alternator? > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > > Chris Gardiner > C-GKRZ > > > > Brian Kraut wrote: > > > I have a Diehl accessory case with the Syncro stator. I am told that > > this alternator(actually it is a generator) was originally sold by > > HAPI. I am also told that there were problems with magnet pieces > > coming off. I have 130 hours on the engine. Can anyone tell me if > > this is a bad enough problem that I should replace the alternator now > > or were there just a few bad units and mine would have broke already > > if it was going to. > > > > Also, does anyone know of a higher current stator I can get or has > > anyone rewound the stator to get more current successfully? > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For > > additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > . > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:19:24 EDT To: \krnet@mailinglists.org From: CHOCTAWCWR@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> \aircraft wire Message-ID: <14a.12e1489c.2a96f5ac@aol.com> --part1_14a.12e1489c.2a96f5ac_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have a large amount of aircraft wire, 24 ga. anyone wanting some just send me postage and address.and footage you need charles robison kr factory atlanta, texas --part1_14a.12e1489c.2a96f5ac_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:19:47 -0400 To: "van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02)" From: chris gardiner Cc: "'krnet@mailinglists.org'" Subject: Re: KR> Outer spar lengths - Warning! Contains modification info Message-ID: <3D65A9D3.4010304@attcanada.ca> Hennie, I have added approx. 9" to each outboard KR2S panel ( on top of the 12" extentions called for in the 2S design) . I have full length spruce spar caps to the tip ( 91") plus the 17" wingtips ( per side) to give me the Nemesis style swept tip shape.. Currently have 30+ hours on the plane and it seems structurally sound with no problems. Stall is very gentle and in the 40 something mpg range. Hope this helps . Regards Chris Gardiner C-GKRZ van Rooyen, Hennie(SF02) wrote: >Hi all, > >One question (just for ease of my mind) if I may: > >What's been an good average wing tip extension length using the same inner >spars and WAF's? I.o.w, what's the maximum extended new outboard wing length >using the existing structural design? I know quite a few have increased >their wing span by adding to the tips with good and seemingly safe results. >I'm after these figures. > >To put it simple, what's the maximum length that has thus far safely been >attached to the inner spars with good and proven actual flying results? > >Regards, >Hennie >South Africa > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************