From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 21 Sep 2002 02:05:19 -0000 Issue 520 Date: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:06 PM krnet Digest 21 Sep 2002 02:05:19 -0000 Issue 520 Topics (messages 12601 through 12611): Re: Need advice 12601 by: Rick Human 12602 by: Daniel Heath 12603 by: Tony Alderman Canopy 12604 by: clappw.bellsouth.net newslete 12605 by: Paul Gangemi In Houston next week 12606 by: Scott Stanton AIRLINE REPAIR LOGS 12607 by: Leigh Plymale Re: Main Gear Fairings 12608 by: Brian Kraut Re: Glass 12609 by: Brian Kraut Re: minor project update 12610 by: Jim Sellars Canopys 12611 by: Edwin Blocher Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:10:38 -0500 To: "James Foster" , From: "Rick Human" Cc: "Ben Flanery" Subject: Re: KR> Need advice Message-ID: <001801c25f81$c05dfc40$65d3dacf@compaq> James - you should be able to get by with a filler - either epoxy and microballons or a commerical product such as "Superfil", don't even think about Bondo. If you like maybe I can come by and have a look. Don't forget 774's "Bald Eagle Day" Saturday at Sportflyers. Rick Human Houston, Tx ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Foster" To: Cc: "Ben Flanery" Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:52 PM Subject: KR> Need advice Hi KR Netters, I'm a new KR2 owner (not of a new KR2, but a "new" owner) In any case I just brought home a KR2 about 80% completed that a friend had been working on for several years. Question( I'm sure there will be many) On the wings - There is about a 1/16" sort of valley which runs the surface of the wing spars and ribs. Seems as if the foam wasn't sanded down to the same level as the spars and ribs before epoxy and glass were applied. The finish condition right now is just glass and epoxy. Primer and paint have not been applied. Will I be able to fill that area with more epoxy? Obviously I am concerned with interuption of airflow moving across the wing surfaces if I do nothing. I hope I don't have to start over but I'll do what ever it takes. If I have to start over, how deep will I have to sand the bare wooden surfaces to get a good bond, in other words, how far does the epoxy penetrate spruce spars and ribs? Thanks in advance, Like many of you, I wish I was going to Red Oak. Jim Foster Katy, TX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:19:25 -0700 To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Need advice Message-ID: RE: There is about a 1/16" sort of valley which runs the surface of the wing spars and ribs. Seems as if the foam wasn't sanded down to the same level as the spars and ribs before epoxy and glass were applied. James, I don't think that condition is uncommon. Certainly, it would be better if it were smooth from the start. You can fill it with a good light weight filler. You will be slightly changing the airfoil, but my experience is, that it will still work. The thing you really need to be concerned about is that the glass is completely bonded to the spar and be sure that you don't sand the glass off, just fill it. And as always, be sure that you feel comfortable with your decision. If you have builders in your area, get them to look at it and talk to your EAA technical counselor. Not to make you feel bad, but the first KR I finished was sold to me as 90% complete. Six years later, I began taxi testing. Wish we were going to........ See you in Red Oak. Daniel R. Heath See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org See our EAA Chapter 242at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:22:16 -0400 To: "Rick Human" , "James Foster" , From: "Tony Alderman" Cc: "Ben Flanery" Subject: Re: KR> Need advice Message-ID: <001c01c25f83$60422fa0$938a4004@computer> You have come to the right place for your answers, unfortunately most of the builders are all their way to Red Bluff for the annual KR gathering, say you will be stuck with the few of us that are here for any answers. And I probably should not beginning you answers being that I am not building the KR, but I read this newsgroup everyday and find it the most revealing of any. I will say that you might want to look at Mark Langford's Web site http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford as it has so much information that it is priceless. Also the wealth of knowledge in this one newsgroup is staggering. Anything that you could possibly want to know you can find out here about a KR. Now concerning you're wings on the KR, I believe that you're just fine the intentions are there by design you will fill them with a product like super fill sand it down and go from there. Well limit to you that all the good answers will compound everybody else here but welcome and good luck. Tony Tony Alderman Durham NC EAA Chapter #879 t-hawk@mindspring.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Human" To: "James Foster" ; Cc: "Ben Flanery" Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 10:10 PM Subject: Re: KR> Need advice > James - you should be able to get by with a filler - either epoxy and > microballons or a commerical product such as "Superfil", don't even think > about Bondo. If you like maybe I can come by and have a look. Don't forget > 774's "Bald Eagle Day" Saturday at Sportflyers. > > Rick Human > Houston, Tx > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Foster" > To: > Cc: "Ben Flanery" > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:52 PM > Subject: KR> Need advice > > > Hi KR Netters, > > I'm a new KR2 owner (not of a new KR2, but a "new" owner) > In any case I just brought home a KR2 about 80% completed that a friend had > been working on for several years. Question( I'm sure there will be many) On > the wings - There is about a 1/16" sort of valley which runs the surface of > the wing spars and ribs. Seems as if the foam wasn't sanded down to the > same level as the spars and ribs before epoxy and glass were applied. The > finish condition right now is just glass and epoxy. Primer and paint have > not been applied. Will I be able to fill that area with more epoxy? > Obviously I am concerned with interuption of airflow moving across the wing > surfaces if I do nothing. I hope I don't have to start over but I'll do what > ever it takes. If I have to start over, how deep will I have to sand the > bare wooden surfaces to get a good bond, in other words, how far does the > epoxy penetrate spruce spars and ribs? > > Thanks in advance, Like many of you, I wish I was going to Red Oak. > > Jim Foster > Katy, TX > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 01:28:04 -0400 To: From: Subject: Canopy Message-ID: <000c01c25f9d$54898cc0$44851442@h1x1g0> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C25F7B.CCF1A5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am looking for a dragonfly canopy for 2S model. Anybody have one for = sale or will there be a mass order soon? Thanks. Bill ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C25F7B.CCF1A5C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:53:27 -0400 (EDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: pwasp@webtv.net (Paul Gangemi) Subject: newslete Message-ID: <20874-3D89F2F7-1828@storefull-2335.public.lawson.webtv.net> I'm having a problem getting the newsletter since i had to get a new webtv unit. Anyone know the e-mail address? Thanks in advance. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:21:09 -0700 (PDT) To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Scott Stanton Subject: In Houston next week Message-ID: <20020919192109.49415.qmail@web11906.mail.yahoo.com> I'll be in Houston next week, Mon-Thurs nights. I'd like to see a KR in person if you have one there you want to show off. I'll be staying about 1/2 mile from the Andrau airpark, so if you have a plane there it'll be real easy to get to. Let me know if your in the area and just want to talk KRs too. Email me offline at comgeek4u@yahoo.com before Sunday if you want to get together. Scott Stanton Raleigh NC ===== -- Scott Stanton __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:14:29 -0400 To: From: "Leigh Plymale" Subject: AIRLINE REPAIR LOGS Message-ID: <003201c26043$122fe800$1b853518@chvlva.adelphia.net> ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C26021.8A65A660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know this isn't the place to post jokes but I just couldn't help = myself. Leigh Plymale AIRLINE REPAIR LOGS=20 >After every flight, pilots complete a gripe sheet which conveys to the = mechanics problems encountered with the aircraft during the flight that = need repair or correction. The form is a piece of=20 >paper that the pilot completes and then the mechanics read and correct = the problem. Then they respond in writing on the lower half of the from = what remedial action was taken and the pilot=20 >reviews the gripe sheet before the next flight. Never let it be said = that ground crews and engineers lack a sense of humor. Here are some = actual logged maintenence complaints and problems and the solution = recorded by maintenance engineers.=20 >=20 >=20 >P=3D THE PROBLEM LOGGED BY THE PILOT=20 >S=3D THE SOLUTION AND ACTION TAKEN BY THE ENGINEERS=20 >=20 >P. Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.=20 >S. Almost replaced left inside main tire.=20 >=20 >P. Test flight OK, except autoland very rough.=20 >S. Autoland not installed on this aircraft.=20 >=20 >P. No. 2 propeller seeping prop fluid.=20 >S. No. 2 propeller seepage normal. No's 1, 3, and 4 propellers lack = normal seepage.=20 >=20 >P. Something loose in cockpit.=20 >S. Something tightened in cockpit.=20 >=20 >P. Dead bugs on windshield.=20 >S. Live bugs on back-order.=20 >=20 >P. Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.=20 >S. Evidence removed.=20 >=20 >P. DME volume unbelievably loud.=20 >S. DME volume set to more believable level.=20 >=20 >P. Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.=20 >S. That's what they're there for.=20 >=20 >P. IFF inoperative.=20 >S. IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.=20 >=20 >P. Suspected crack in windshield.=20 >S. ! Suspect you're right.=20 >=20 >P. Number 3 engine missing.=20 >S. Engine found on right wing after brief search.=20 >=20 >P. Aircraft handles funny.=20 >S. Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right,=20 > and be serious.=20 >=20 >P. Target radar hums.=20 >S. Reprogrammed target radar with words.=20 >=20 >P. Mouse in cockpit.=20 >S. Cat installed.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C26021.8A65A660-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:18:18 -0400 To: John and Janet Martindale From: Brian Kraut CC: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Main Gear Fairings Message-ID: <3D8A856A.4000800@earthlink.net> That's what I thought originally, but as I took a closer look I realized that the hard aluminum to gear leg attach point was less than an inch from the outside skin on the wing. Figuring that I wouldn't get much flex of the leg only an inch from the fulcrum point I reglassed the bottom of the wing right up to the gear leg and put on a few layers of 2" glass tape. I faired it with Dynalite and sanded with a 1/4" dowel wrapped with sandpaper. So I really don't have a fairing at all. Have other people done it like this and had any problems with the wing skin cracking on landings? As far as fairing for less drag, I can add a glass or molded plastic fairing later, but I don't think it will decrease drag enough to matter. Maybe I will build up temporary fairings with clay or something after I get flying and see if I notice any difference. John and Janet Martindale wrote: >Folks > >Don't glass your fairings direct to the wing skins and to the leg. The leg flexing will strain ya skins. Leave a gap or overlap or something between the upper and lower portions of the fairing. Those legs can move a substantial amount in a hard landing. > >John and Janet Martindale >29 Jane Circuit >TOORMINA NSW 2452 >AUSTRALIA > >ph: 61 2 66584767 > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:40:09 -0400 To: Leigh Plymale From: Brian Kraut CC: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Glass Message-ID: <3D8A8A89.6030003@earthlink.net> It has been a while, but I used to be a lab assistant in the composites lab at Embry Riddle Aero U. I worked with kevlar and graphite and neither is hard to work with, but you must use scisors that were made for kevlar. Period. You can also cut it with ruby razor blades, but they are expensive and hard to come by. Scisors are easier anyway. It does tend to fray if you cut a piece after it is glassed so it is better for parts that you don't need to either cut later or sand down to the fibers. Graphite is lighter for the same strength, but also stiffer. Stiffer is good for some parts, but not where you have something that needs to flex, not snap. Mark is very correct that most areas of the KR like wing skins don't really benefit from graphite because the one layer of glass is already very thin. If you go with thinner graphite to save weight you will have even less dent and ding resistance. If you use the same thickness of graphite it will be barely lighter, stronger than the glass that is already strong enough, and three times the price. Kevlar is just slightly lighter than the equivalent strength of glass, but it has less compression strength. It is best suited to parts that need impact and abrasion resistance like a cowling that you will take off all the time and lay on the ground and bang into in your shop. I made a new chassis for my RC car when I was a lab assistant and I used two layers of graphite for strength and stiffness and a layer of kevlar on the outside for impact resistance. It is 1/16 of an inch thick and you can bang it with a hammer. Leigh Plymale wrote: >I was researching the net about fiberglass carbon fiber and kevlar. As far as > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:45:36 -0300 To: "Mark Langford" , "KRnet" From: "Jim Sellars" Subject: Re: KR> minor project update Message-ID: <002b01c260a3$a009ae80$98a89aa5@LAPTOP> Gentlemen: This being Friday and the beginning of what should be a great time in Ioha, at the gathering, I would like to request alittle help. Last year I purchased a KR2 project in Vermillion Ohio, from a great guy named Mike Myers. My problem is that I have lost my contact info for him and need to talk with him again.He is an air traffic controller in Cleaveland, and lives as I said in Vermillion. Any help would be very much appreciated. My co-ordinates are; Jim Sellars, 506-858-5816 or by return email. Hope all you folks at the gathering have a great time. I'm green with envie and hope to be at one of these weekends soon. Best regards Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 3:12 PM Subject: KR> minor project update > I sent this a while ago, and never saw it show up, so here it is again. My > apologies if it's the second time around... > > > > > > NetHeads, > > > > I promised a mini-update, and it's at > > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/fairings.html . This is just some of the > > little stuff that has to get done sooner or later. As soon as I finish up > > these fairings, including the tailwheel fairing and gear leg fairings, > I'll > > paint the bottom of the plane, flip it over, install the engine (for the > > last time), and start working on similar details on top. Fortunately, I > did > > my finish sanding as I built each piece, so rather than a huge monumental > > sanding task ahead, I just have a few little areas to touch up. The one > > thing that's still rough is the carbon fiber wing tips, which won't take > but > > 10 hours or so to get under control. After that there are the little > > details in the cockpit, and painting time. > > > > I'm headed out toward Red Oak in a minute, stopping in southern Illinois > to > > spend the night at Larry Flesner's house, and hopefully (weather > permitting) > > bumming a ride in his Tripacer Thursday morning on to Red Oak. If we get > to > > fly it, I'd love to take more air-to-air photos of the folks that I missed > > last time, like Jim Faughn's KR2, etc. But this time we only plan one > photo > > mission, since we spent an awful lot of time flying last time, rather than > > soaking in the KR ambience... > > > > See y'all there! > > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 21:01:39 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Canopys Message-ID: <001601c26112$d3dee120$0201a8c0@computer> ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C260E8.E9D191A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Canopy update: As of today the proyotype canopy is ready and will be coming to me for a = trial fit. As soon as I get it I will post pictures, measurements, = prices, and etc. Mark or someone at the gathering: would you mention this - A canopy = comparable to the D'fly for $300.00 plus shipping. I'm in the process of going DSL and will have a new e-mail address in a = few days. Please bear with me and we will have canopys soon. Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, Florida ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C260E8.E9D191A0-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************