From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 24 Oct 2002 00:11:59 -0000 Issue 537 Date: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:13 PM krnet Digest 24 Oct 2002 00:11:59 -0000 Issue 537 Topics (messages 12910 through 12935): Re: gusset strength. 12910 by: Ronald Freiberger canopy group purchase 12911 by: Edwin Blocher Re: Epoxy Joints 12912 by: Phillip Matheson 12920 by: Larry A. Capps my e-mail 12913 by: Dean Selby tricycle gear measurements 12914 by: Rick Wilson 12915 by: Rick Wilson 12916 by: Mark Jones 12917 by: Rick Wilson 12924 by: larry flesner Re: Gussets 12918 by: Brian Kraut Re: Master Brake Cylinder Options 12919 by: Brian Kraut Epoxy joints and gussets 12921 by: Steve T-88 Structural Adhesive 12922 by: Justin 12923 by: Mark Jones 12925 by: Jim Sellars 12927 by: mjones.muellersales.com more test flight data 12926 by: Oscar Zuniga 12935 by: Daniel Heath Re: Thank you Cartera/ Robert / Virg and KRnet 12928 by: Jeff York 12930 by: Rick Human dimple tape 12929 by: Oscar Zuniga T-88 adhesive 12931 by: Tracy & Carol O'Brien FPL-16A 12932 by: Larry A. Capps 12933 by: Ronald Freiberger 12934 by: Ed Janssen Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:14:10 -0400 To: "Audrey and Harold Woods" , From: "Ronald Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> gusset strength. Message-ID: Years ago, Hugh ????? 's dog nearly died of chirrosis of the liver after inhaling fumes from Aerolite. BE Aware. Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Audrey and Harold Woods [mailto:audreyandharoldwoods@rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:56 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> gusset strength. The discussion of gusset blocks vs gusset plates is interesting. The skin on the outer side is a giant gusset. There is really no problem fitting the gusset black if you are using epoxy glue. Truthfully the fit does not have to be accurate provided the epoxy does not run out of the joint. A thrixiotropic agent like cabasol, a hydated silica powder will prevent running. I visited a skilled boat builder one day. He had a number of wooden Jorginson clamps. I noted one clamp which was about 2" x 1' in crossection had a transparent section across almost 80% of the 2" section . The wood was maple. He replied that the maple had cracked under load. He had run the wood into his circular saw to widen the crack area. He put masking tape around the bottom and up the open side, then poured it full of epoxy and let it cure for a week. The epoxy was Gudgeon Brothers epoxy 5:1 mix regular hardener. (pardon the spelling). He said that he uses it regularly and it is as strong as any other of his clamps. Essentially then if the glue joint on a poorly filling wooden gusset block is not starved of epoxy, it will be as strong as a perfectly fiiting block. Once cured the masking tape will easily pull off the epoxy joint. This same builder did not have much good to say about Aerolite glue. That is a 2 part glue which at one time was approaved for aircraft construction in Canada. Under constant vibration the glue fractures and weakens until an accident is just waiting to happen. Harold Woods. Orillia, ON Canada. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/9/02 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:14:48 -0500 To: "KRNet" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: canopy group purchase Message-ID: <002001c279f6$e8a15c80$0201a8c0@computer> ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C279CC.FF4E3540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Time to get in on the group canopy purchase has expired. I ended up sending Todd checks for 7 canopys in the group purchase. Anyone still needing or need one in the future contact: Todd Canopys web site; www.kgarden.com/todd e-mail: bsilver05@aol.com Ed eblocher@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C279CC.FF4E3540-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:57:18 +1000 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy Joints Message-ID: <003901c27a1e$608a9e60$0100a8c0@barry> Steve. Will done, They always say that actions work better than words. You have raise very interesting findings. Everyone seems to clamp the day lights out of a joint. well done. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 NSW Australia. See our VW engines at; www.vw-engines.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:54 AM Subject: KR> Epoxy Joints Hello KR netters With all the talk about gussets recently, I wood like to talk about the strength of an epoxy joint and a couple of test I did. When I started building my sides I had never worked with epoxy but knew it was NOT glue. I did these test to find out optimal clamping pressure before starting. All test were done with T-88 epoxy. There are 4 pressures working on every joint: Compression, Epoxy has incredibly strenth Tension(pulling apart) Epoxy poor strength Moment(bending at connection) Fair ammount of strength Shear(scissor action at joint) Incredibly strenth, wood easily breaks first But I digress, I was looking for clamping pressure on a but joint. The three test I did were all given enough epoxy to cover both surfaces but each having different preassure and all being a simple butt joint in the shape of a T. High clamping pressure: The clamp was tighten to where it made an impresion into the top of the T and most of the epoxy squeezed out. Light clamping pressure: used a rubber band to hold wood in place, some epoxy squeezed out and wood had good contact No clamping pressure: The wood was pressed together and set on wax paper to cure. After two days of curing, I tested by just pushing down on the bottom of the T laid on it's side. High clamp joint failed with just light pressure, it snapped like a candy cane with no flexibility. No clamping pressure held consiberably more pressure and offered more flexibility, although I didn't use a scale it held several times the force. There was a small void in the connection and surface contact was light about 50%. The rubber clamp easily help the most force and had great flexibility just beating out no clamp. surface contact was 99% and no voids. When it did finaly fail from the force it let go but did not snap or shatter like the High clamp test. This was a lesson for myself to use epoxy and get a feel for it's mechanical properties. The big lesson I learned is EPOXY IS NOT GLUE, you need some to stay in the joint. Steve Lemke Omaha, Nebraska Building for speed by building light ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:55:35 -0500 To: From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: Epoxy Joints Message-ID: <000001c27a37$47fd5590$0200a8c0@schpankme> For bonding wood joints, fillers added to epoxy make them thixotropic to assist in bonding joints by eliminating air gaps and to keep epoxy from sagging or running out of the joint to be bonded. These fillers used for structural joints should be as strong as possible. Pulverized Limestone, is one of the best fillers for structural uses and gap filling properties (flour fine, not gritty as ground limestone is). When mixed with epoxy it doubles the resin volume and is dense and strong. It is universally available as a fertilizer material at dollar fifty per 50# bag. It is difficult to sand. Portland cement is pretty much equivalent to Pulverized Limestone. Talc, another mineral, which is almost as strong as pulverized limestone and sands easily. This filler does not flow, but will spread. It is available from different supply houses at around a dollar a pound. Try making up a sample using Baby Powder. Now go out, get a few pieces of spruce or fir stock, make up a few samples, and test the strength of the joints using fillers and without fillers. Find out for yourself which method has the best strength. Regards, Larry A. Capps KR Newsletter Naperville, IL How about - 27 Years of the KR Newsletter on CD - $45.00 -----Original Message----- With all the talk about gussets recently, I wood like to talk about the strength of an epoxy joint and a couple of test I did. There are 4 pressures working on every joint: - Compression, Epoxy has incredibly strenth - Tension (pulling apart) Epoxy poor strength - Moment (bending at connection) Fair ammount of strength - Shear (scissor action at joint) Incredibly strenth, wood easily breaks first The big lesson I learned is EPOXY IS NOT GLUE, you need some to stay in the joint. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:52:19 -0500 To: Mike Burr , Michelle Burr , Mark Langford , Mark and Brenda , lacapps@attbi.com, KrnetMailinglistsOrg From: Dean Selby Subject: my e-mail Message-id: <002201c27a26$10d62210$6d6974cc@dean> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C279FC.260338A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those of you who need it my e-mail will be changing in the next day = or two (had to change providers) to dselby1@blomand.net=20 Thanks, Dean ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C279FC.260338A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:51:50 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: tricycle gear measurements Message-ID: <20021023005150.8646.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Is there anyone with tricycle gear with an 0200 or engine of comparable weight who can tell me how far behind the main spar the centerline of the axles need to be? Or is there a formula for figuring this measurement? If anyone has this information it would be a great help. Thanks, Rick Wilson. rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:55:09 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: tricycle gear measurements Message-ID: <20021023005509.15839.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> I also meant to ask if the Diehl gear is set back the same amount on all tricycle setups, and if so, does anyone know how far it is behind the main spar? Thanks again, Rick Wilson..... rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:05:51 -0500 To: From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> tricycle gear measurements Message-ID: <007b01c27a30$553d6120$8e541f41@wi.rr.com> Rick, The centerline of the main gear axles, on the Diehl trigear, is 4 inches aft of the main spar. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Wilson" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 7:55 PM Subject: KR> tricycle gear measurements > I also meant to ask if the Diehl gear is set back the > same amount on all tricycle setups, and if so, does > anyone know how far it is behind the main spar? > Thanks again, Rick Wilson..... rwdw2002@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:23:05 -0700 (PDT) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: tricycle gear measurements Message-ID: <20021023012305.2385.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Philip and Mark for your answers, This is a big help. I am presently in the process of changing from oleo strut tri-gear to setup similar to Diehl, but I will build my own brackets, which is why I needed this measurement. Thanks Again, Rick Wilson.... rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:36:30 -0500 To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> tricycle gear measurements Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20021023063630.008877f0@mail.midwest.net> >Hi, Is there anyone with tricycle gear with an 0200 or >engine of comparable weight who can tell me how far >behind the main spar the centerline of the axles need >to be? Or is there a formula for figuring this >measurement? If anyone has this information it would >be a great help. Thanks, Rick Wilson. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= I seem to recall reading somewhere that you should have about 35 percent of your aircraft weight on the nose gear on a tri-gear setup. Might have been a Tony Bingalis book. One of the "engineer types" on the net could probably verify this. I think we have a "netter" somewhere south of the U.S. border that has an 0-200, tri-gear setup. Maybe he could tell us what he has and how it handles. Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois, USA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:35:34 -0400 To: norm-ruth , krnet@mailinglists.org From: Brian Kraut Subject: Re: KR> Gussets Message-ID: <3DB5FCE6.5060604@earthlink.net> I was a lab assistant in the wood, fabric, and composites lab at Embry-Riddle in my A+P school days. They tought us in wing rib making that you should not sand the ends of the sticks for fit. The sawdust gets in the pores of the wood and keeps you from getting good glue penetration. You should saw to the correct length and angle. Supposedly, a file is acceptable. Bigger sawdust that won't fit in the pores I guess. You also are not rubbing it in like with sanding. My personal opinion is that it is probably O.K. to sand. That is the best way to get a good fit unless you want to play forever with a saw to get the right angle. I would recommend that you hit all end grain with a blower on the air compressor to get the sawdust out of the pores. As far as the KR is concerned most of the gussets don't add a whole lot anyway. Once you put the plywood on the sides of the fuselage you could do without them although I would not recommend it. norm-ruth wrote: >I used a sanding disk in my table saw and made the gussets with a perfect fit in no time at all. >Actually, I used the permanent type of disk from Sears > >Norm Seel norm-ruth@prodigy.net > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:39:39 -0400 To: Peter Johnson , krnet@mailinglists.org From: Brian Kraut Subject: Re: KR> Master Brake Cylinder Options Message-ID: <3DB5FDDB.2040508@earthlink.net> One more "I wish I would have thought about that"s. Do you have your team together for the next season of my favorite show, Junkyard Wars, yet? Peter Johnson wrote: >Here's something that I hope someone may find useful. > >Yesterday I went to a motorcycle/snowmachine/outboard motor wrecking yard, the same one I collected the carb for my Corvair from and will collect the flywheel style alternator from soon. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:09:46 -0500 To: From: "Steve" Subject: Epoxy joints and gussets Message-ID: <010601c27a4a$06769b00$291e6344@om.cox.net> ------=_NextPart_000_0103_01C27A20.1D55CE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Brian Kraut that the gussets are more for asembly than = structural strength, but I wouldn't leave them out either. I used about = 7' of spruce in gusset blocks. It all adds up to only ounces and really = makes assembly easier. Larry A Capps also had some good ideas about exopy additives. I will = try a few in the future. Now I am going to start my turtle deck, canopy and front deck. That = means I will have to learn about fiberglass and make up a few tests to = make sure I get it right. Steve Lemke Omaha, Nebraska ------=_NextPart_000_0103_01C27A20.1D55CE60-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:33:55 -0500 To: From: "Justin" Subject: T-88 Structural Adhesive Message-ID: <000b01c27a3c$a228bb40$77c61b42@socal.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C27A12.B927F9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Where would I be able to buy T-88 Structural Adhesive? I know it is for = sale by "Rand Robinson" but I would rather be able to go to a store down = the street from my house. I want to keep sales for them down to a = minimum. It is too hard to get ahold of them and then price of shipping = on top of that. Justin KR2S plans shipped ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C27A12.B927F9C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:29:08 -0500 To: "Justin" , From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> T-88 Structural Adhesive Message-ID: <001001c27a87$66f06780$8e541f41@wi.rr.com> Justin, T-88 can be bought at most wood working hobby shops. They usually only have it in pint size. You need to get a copy of the Wick's Aircraft catalog and Aircraft Spruce and Specialty catalog. This is where you will buy 99% of your aircraft needs. Thay both have web sites. A quart of T-88 is $25 from Wick's. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:33 PM Subject: KR> T-88 Structural Adhesive Where would I be able to buy T-88 Structural Adhesive? I know it is for sale by "Rand Robinson" but I would rather be able to go to a store down the street from my house. I want to keep sales for them down to a minimum. It is too hard to get ahold of them and then price of shipping on top of that. Justin KR2S plans shipped ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:35:27 -0300 To: "Mark Jones" , "Justin" , From: "Jim Sellars" Subject: Re: KR> T-88 Structural Adhesive Message-ID: <003401c27a90$ad3b7730$0100a8c0@LAPTOP> Mark: Can you get me some info on alternative latching systems for the canopy. I would like to move to a new set-up rather than the suitcase latches available through RR. Know any source of the same please advise. Best regards Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "Justin" ; Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:29 AM Subject: Re: KR> T-88 Structural Adhesive > Justin, > T-88 can be bought at most wood working hobby shops. They usually only have > it in pint size. You need to get a copy of the Wick's Aircraft catalog and > Aircraft Spruce and Specialty catalog. This is where you will buy 99% of > your aircraft needs. Thay both have web sites. A quart of T-88 is $25 from > Wick's. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Justin" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:33 PM > Subject: KR> T-88 Structural Adhesive > > > Where would I be able to buy T-88 Structural Adhesive? I know it is for sale > by "Rand Robinson" but I would rather be able to go to a store down the > street from my house. I want to keep sales for them down to a minimum. It is > too hard to get ahold of them and then price of shipping on top of that. > > Justin > KR2S plans shipped > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:15:29 -0500 To: "Jim Sellars" From: mjones@muellersales.com cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> T-88 Structural Adhesive Message-ID: <86256C5B.0048D648.00@mail.muellersales.com> Try Wick's Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce and Specialty "Jim Sellars" on 10/23/2002 07:35:27 AM To: "Mark Jones" , "Justin" , krnet@mailinglists.org cc: (bcc: Mark Jones/Mueller) Subject: Re: KR> T-88 Structural Adhesive Mark: Can you get me some info on alternative latching systems for the canopy. I would like to move to a new set-up rather than the suitcase latches available through RR. Know any source of the same please advise. Best regards Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "Justin" ; Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:29 AM Subject: Re: KR> T-88 Structural Adhesive > Justin, > T-88 can be bought at most wood working hobby shops. They usually only have > it in pint size. You need to get a copy of the Wick's Aircraft catalog and > Aircraft Spruce and Specialty catalog. This is where you will buy 99% of > your aircraft needs. Thay both have web sites. A quart of T-88 is $25 from > Wick's. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Justin" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:33 PM > Subject: KR> T-88 Structural Adhesive > > > Where would I be able to buy T-88 Structural Adhesive? I know it is for sale > by "Rand Robinson" but I would rather be able to go to a store down the > street from my house. I want to keep sales for them down to a minimum. It is > too hard to get ahold of them and then price of shipping on top of that. > > Justin > KR2S plans shipped > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 07:46:50 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: more test flight data Message-ID: Here's the latest from Billy McFarland's flight testing. Results from adding wheel pants: ======================================== >From: Flymaca711689@aol.com >My wheel pants did give me 5 mph also climb is 100ft/min better. >The one thing that I'm really happy about is yaw in turbulence and >variable winds is a lot better. This was an extra treat to me. >I wonder if others notice this since it did the same for my hanger >mate's Pulsar. I'd like to get some feedback on this. Anybody that's >flown the KR knows what I'm saying- you get tired trying to keep the >ball centered and just give up and let it dance. Well, I'm on to >dimple tape to see if I can get just a little more out of the prop. >I'll keep you posted on my test with the tape. >Billy McFarland N1055A ================================= Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:14:25 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) To: From: "Daniel Heath" Subject: Re: KR> more test flight data Message-Id: <3DB76591.000010.00972@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_1CUGN0X1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_2CUGIA11VA4000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_2CUGIA11VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE> Anybody that's=0D >flown the KR knows what I'm saying- you get tired trying to keep the=0D >ball centered and just give up and let it dance. =0D =0D Never had a problem keeping the ball centered, as long as I kept my feet = off the rudder, no problem.=0D See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath=0D =0D See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org Click on the Pic.=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG=0D =0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_2CUGIA11VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

RE> Anybody that's
>flown the KR knows w= hat I'm=20 saying- you get tired trying to keep the
>ball centered and j= ust=20 give up and let it dance.

 

Never had a problem keeping the ball centered, as= long as=20 I kept my feet off the rudder, no problem.

See ya in Red Oak --- 2003,

Da= niel R.=20 Heath

See our KR2 at: http://kr-builder.org  Clic= k on the=20 Pic.

See our EAA Chapter 242 at: http://WWW.EAA242.ORG

&nb= sp;=20

=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMai= l -=20 Email has finally evolved - Click=20 Here --------------Boundary-00=_2CUGIA11VA4000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_1CUGN0X1VA4000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:22:15 -0400 To: cartera@cuug.ab.ca From: "Jeff York" Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Thank you Cartera/ Robert / Virg and KRnet Message-ID: Thank you , thank you, thank you, Cartera, Robert C, Virg and KRnet. During my annual inspection I found that I had a problem with my engines compression. On cylinders 1 and 2. So I tossed out a request for assistance on the Krnet. Cartera, Robert C. and Virg gave me several great idea's on things to check before I started tearing down the engine. And special thanks to Cartera who hit the nail on the head. Thanks to him I found that the torque on my head bolts was not to spec. After re-torque of the heads, bingo the compression was back where it was suppose to be. And when I went to start the engine, it started easier then it had ever started before. And I thought I was having problems getting it to start because of the manual choke. So, I am also glad that the FAA has us do annual inspections. It can allow us to find hidden problems. But more thankful I have this forum for help. Sometimes I hesitated to put a question on the net in fear of thinking my question was stupid. But I learned a long time ago that the difference between success and failure was not admitting when you don't have the answer and failing to go to the person that does. So you guys that are thinking of building, or that have gotten stuck building, be thankful you have this forum, use it to get your help and get your project completed. I sure wish I had it on my last project. Now, get the answers you need from this forum and get back to that project and finish it. Thank you, thank you, thank you >From: cartera >To: Jeff York >Subject: Re: KR> Up Flying >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:29:35 -0600 > >Hi Jeff, >That's a good plan, sure do a leak test but maybe do the compression >test as well after the tightening of the heads however this my not >do it for you then you can take it off and see what the hell is causing >the problem. Just a little piece of anything can do it to interfere >with proper seating, also if you have to take the head off make sure >you check the height of the barrels, all you need is a few thou to >upset to throw it off. Your right, we all learn from each other without >any flaming is the only way to go because not one of us knows every- >thing. Take Care and Good Luck! Torque values may be different, of >course use the one for your engine, mine is for the 1835cc forgot >you engine is different. ;). > >Jeff York wrote: > > > > Well, it has been a little while since I rebuilt and worked on engines. >And > > I have to think differently when it comes to these engines with a head > > mounted on top of a jug vs a head mounted on a cast block. But it does >make > > sense when you think about your statement regarding the head not being > > seated and the fact that it is both cylinders on one side. And yes I > > learned the hard way several years ago about getting around aluminum >engines > > without a torque wrench. > > > > I will try your advice, (I hope tonight) and check the head bolts. >Another > > Krnet'r advised me to try a compression leakage test and I realized I >have > > the tool to do this with. But the head bolts should be checked first. > > > > I assume that the torque specks you gave me are the same as the ones I >will > > find in my GPAS manual. > > > > Again thanks for your help and keep it coming. > > > > I have found the secret to success is, admit went you don't know the >answer. > > don't guess. Be honest about it to yourself and others. Be humble and >ask > > someone that knows. > > > > This has worked in my career, when I am driving on a trip, when I am >with my > > wife and when I fly an airplane. If you don't humble yourself and ask > > someone that knows, You can lose your job, get lost on a trip have your > > wife divorce you and when flying an airplane, you could lose your life >and > > someone else's. > > > > Keep that great help coming, > > > > Jeff York > > > > >From: cartera > > >To: Jeff York > > >Subject: Re: KR> Up Flying > > >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:00:04 -0600 > > > > > >Hi Jeff, > > >You may be jumping the gun here because your not really sure what the > > >cause is, it may not be the valves, you may also take the valve covers > > >off and just rotate the prop and look at the valve lifters if all of > > >them (4) go just a far down and then rest in the same position, then > > >the valve train appears OK. Now there is another problem, your head > > >may not be seating like it should this has happened before to me. > > >Or, make sure you use a torque wrench and try all your lugs or rods > > >that hold everything together, are they 8mm or 10mm should be 10mm. > > >It's a slow methodical process, so don't get discouraged, personally > > >I have a suspicion that the head is not seating properly, because it > > >is both cylinders on one side. Good Luck and let us know how you make > > >out! Don't go around that engine without a torque wrench in your hand. > > >Attached is a torque chart from Rex Taylor if you don't know who that > > >is, it used to be HAPI. > > >Adrian > > > > > >Jeff York wrote: > > > > > > > > That is the strange thing. It runs as smooth as silk. I would have >never > > > > guessed that the compression tests would come out this way. I >actually > > >did > > > > them several times, rechecking the bank that was giving good >readings > > >and > > > > then checking the other bank. Always with the same results, low > > >compression > > > > on one side. > > > > > > > > The last time I flew the plane it ran fine, that was a couple months > > >ago. > > > > The only thing that I have ever noticed is that it's a bit-h to >start > > >when > > > > it's cold. But I don't have a primer and I have always found manual > > >choke > > > > engines are more difficult to start. It takes to many blades to kick > > >over. > > > > > > > > I hope to get out of the office tonight at a descent time and get >back > > >to > > > > the hanger. I will try the oil in the cylinders to eliminate the >rings. > > >I > > > > stopped by Sears yesterday and bought a valve lapping tool and >spring > > >tool. > > > > I hope to just find excessive carbon built up on the valves. > > > > > > > > If you have additional feedback please let me know. > > > > > > > > Jeff York > > > > N839BG > > > > > > > > >From: cartera > > > > >To: Jeff York > > > > >CC: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > >Subject: Re: KR> Up Flying > > > > >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:16:08 -0600 > > > > > > > > > >Hello Gang, > > > > >Want to make a few points here and hopefully enlighten some of the > > > > >misconceptions. Compression test, it looks like there is too much > > > > >of a differential there one side is half the pressure of the other, > > > > >not very smooth running, as Verge mentioned a bit of oil in each >low > > > > >cylinder is an indication if it comes up that the problem may lie >in > > > > >the rings if no change is evident then it probably will be in the > > > > >valves/seats. Carbon often builds on the the seats and then don't > > > > >seal properly. In a car with a down draft carb it's easy by putting > > > > >in a carbon remover, however with a updraft carb it a bit not >difficult > > > > >but you can put some in the cylinder through the plug holes and let > > > > >it sit at least over night. If the pressure comes up to within 20 >lbs. > > > > >of the good cylinders, you've won. If not then your due for a top > > > > >cylinder repair. > > > > >Do not fly with this deferential because something will give > > > > >and you may dead stick it. > > > > >Now for carb ice: Every carb works on the Bernoulli principle, >which > > > > >states: as velocity increases, pressure drops and heat loss is > > > > >experienced within the air entering the venturi in your carb. Ice > > >builds > > > > >at the opening and at the end of the venturi and is somewhat >dependent > > > > >on the relative humidity in the air. At just about all outside air > > > > >temperatures carb ice can occur. If you had a point of temperature > > > > >sensor in your carb (which some aircraft have) you would be amazed >how > > > > >cold it gets in there. Therefore, ice we fly and a lot of times it >does > > > > >not affect us and we don't know that we are carrying ice, but it > > >happens > > > > >on every flight. One should always use a bit of heat when rpm falls > > > > >below 2000. I have always used a bit of carb heat at appropriate >times > > > > >even in cruise and occasional bit of carb heat, not all the time >but > > > > >a bit for a few minutes or so, keep an eye on the rpm which is a >good > > > > >indicator of some ice build. Never, never pull the carb heat on >full > > > > >because you will set yourself up for a dead stick landing. The ice > > > > >releases at once and flames out the engine. Just a bit at a time >and > > > > >give it time to slowly melt out. Hope this will help some to >understand > > > > >some of the physics of carb operation. Take Care, Happy Building >and > > > > >Flying! Fly the AIRPLANE! > > > > > > > > > >Adrian VE6AFY > > > > >cartera@cuug.ab.ca > > > > >http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > > > > > > > >Jeff York wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what they are getting in their compression >checks > > >on > > > > > > their 2180 GPAS? > > > > > > > > > > > > During my annual inspect, I noticed that cylinders 1 and 2 are >much > > > > >lower > > > > > > then 3 and 4. UNless my gauge is screwed up. Cylinders 3 and 4 >are > > > > >reading > > > > > > about 120 psi. 1 and 2 are reading about 60 psi. This test was >done > > > > >after > > > > > > running the engine long enough to bring oil temps up. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am running with zenith carb and a mag ignition. The engine >only > > >has > > > > >about > > > > > > 55 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > I checked the tappet clearance and then ran the test again with > > >little > > > > >to no > > > > > > difference. Although It did seem that the tappet clearance on 1 >and > > >2 > > > > >was to > > > > > > tight so I re-set it to a tight 8 loose 6 per the GPAS manual. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am thinking I have a head that needs the valves re ground. Am >I > > >going > > > > >in > > > > > > the right direction? Is there a method to checking the >compression > > >on a > > > > >GPAS > > > > > > that is different then the 4 stroke auto engines I have worked >on in > > >the > > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > I once worked on a Ford 4 cylinder years ago that had tappets >out of > > > > > > adjustment. I thought I was going to have to pull the head >because > > >of a > > > > >low > > > > > > compression problem. An old mechanic told me that it could be >carbon > > > > >build > > > > > > up on the exhaust valve and to run the engine for a while and >the > > >carbon > > > > > > would release and the compression would come back up. > > > > > > > > > > > > He was right. I can't remember everything he had me do, but it > > >worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this possible? Or am I just dreaming? > > > > > > > > > > > > You 2180 or VW long timers give me the scoop. I don't think it >would > > >be > > > > > > rings because that should show as over all low compression on >all > > > > >cylinders, > > > > > > or oil blow by from a damaged oil ring, signs of cylinder >pressure > > > > >getting > > > > > > into the crankcase. > > > > > > I am not looking for a quick fix. Those never worked on auto >engines > > >in > > > > >the > > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just want to be sure I am going in the right direction and if > > >others > > > > >have > > > > > > had this problem, what steps or things do I need to do to >prevent > > >this > > > > >from > > > > > > happening again in the future. > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > > > > > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply >all" > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > > > > > > See the KRNet archives at >http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > > > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply >all" > > > > > > > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > > > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > > >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > > > > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > ><< Torques.jpg >> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > >-- >Adrian VE6AFY >Calgary, Alberta >Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca >http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:28:54 -0500 To: From: "Rick Human" Subject: Re: KR> Thank you Cartera/ Robert / Virg and KRnet Message-ID: <001c01c27aa8$e61c3d60$a9d4dacf@compaq> I have about 300 hrs on VW's on a VP-1 and I found that with each oil change (@25hrs) I needed to check the valve clearance and the head torque - can't remember a time when one or both didn't need adjustment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff York" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:22 AM Subject: Re: KR> Thank you Cartera/ Robert / Virg and KRnet > Thank you , thank you, thank you, > > Cartera, Robert C, Virg and KRnet. > > During my annual inspection I found that I had a problem with my engines > compression. On cylinders 1 and 2. > > So I tossed out a request for assistance on the Krnet. > > Cartera, Robert C. and Virg gave me several great idea's on things to check > before I started tearing down the engine. And special thanks to Cartera who > hit the nail on the head. > > Thanks to him I found that the torque on my head bolts was not to spec. > After re-torque of the heads, bingo the compression was back where it was > suppose to be. And when I went to start the engine, it started easier then > it had ever started before. And I thought I was having problems getting it > to start because of the manual choke. > > So, I am also glad that the FAA has us do annual inspections. It can allow > us to find hidden problems. But more thankful I have this forum for help. > > Sometimes I hesitated to put a question on the net in fear of thinking my > question was stupid. But I learned a long time ago that the difference > between success and failure was not admitting when you don't have the answer > and failing to go to the person that does. > > So you guys that are thinking of building, or that have gotten stuck > building, be thankful you have this forum, use it to get your help and get > your project completed. > > I sure wish I had it on my last project. > > Now, get the answers you need from this forum and get back to that project > and finish it. > > Thank you, thank you, thank you > > > > > > > >From: cartera > >To: Jeff York > >Subject: Re: KR> Up Flying > >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:29:35 -0600 > > > >Hi Jeff, > >That's a good plan, sure do a leak test but maybe do the compression > >test as well after the tightening of the heads however this my not > >do it for you then you can take it off and see what the hell is causing > >the problem. Just a little piece of anything can do it to interfere > >with proper seating, also if you have to take the head off make sure > >you check the height of the barrels, all you need is a few thou to > >upset to throw it off. Your right, we all learn from each other without > >any flaming is the only way to go because not one of us knows every- > >thing. Take Care and Good Luck! Torque values may be different, of > >course use the one for your engine, mine is for the 1835cc forgot > >you engine is different. ;). > > > >Jeff York wrote: > > > > > > Well, it has been a little while since I rebuilt and worked on engines. > >And > > > I have to think differently when it comes to these engines with a head > > > mounted on top of a jug vs a head mounted on a cast block. But it does > >make > > > sense when you think about your statement regarding the head not being > > > seated and the fact that it is both cylinders on one side. And yes I > > > learned the hard way several years ago about getting around aluminum > >engines > > > without a torque wrench. > > > > > > I will try your advice, (I hope tonight) and check the head bolts. > >Another > > > Krnet'r advised me to try a compression leakage test and I realized I > >have > > > the tool to do this with. But the head bolts should be checked first. > > > > > > I assume that the torque specks you gave me are the same as the ones I > >will > > > find in my GPAS manual. > > > > > > Again thanks for your help and keep it coming. > > > > > > I have found the secret to success is, admit went you don't know the > >answer. > > > don't guess. Be honest about it to yourself and others. Be humble and > >ask > > > someone that knows. > > > > > > This has worked in my career, when I am driving on a trip, when I am > >with my > > > wife and when I fly an airplane. If you don't humble yourself and ask > > > someone that knows, You can lose your job, get lost on a trip have your > > > wife divorce you and when flying an airplane, you could lose your life > >and > > > someone else's. > > > > > > Keep that great help coming, > > > > > > Jeff York > > > > > > >From: cartera > > > >To: Jeff York > > > >Subject: Re: KR> Up Flying > > > >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:00:04 -0600 > > > > > > > >Hi Jeff, > > > >You may be jumping the gun here because your not really sure what the > > > >cause is, it may not be the valves, you may also take the valve covers > > > >off and just rotate the prop and look at the valve lifters if all of > > > >them (4) go just a far down and then rest in the same position, then > > > >the valve train appears OK. Now there is another problem, your head > > > >may not be seating like it should this has happened before to me. > > > >Or, make sure you use a torque wrench and try all your lugs or rods > > > >that hold everything together, are they 8mm or 10mm should be 10mm. > > > >It's a slow methodical process, so don't get discouraged, personally > > > >I have a suspicion that the head is not seating properly, because it > > > >is both cylinders on one side. Good Luck and let us know how you make > > > >out! Don't go around that engine without a torque wrench in your hand. > > > >Attached is a torque chart from Rex Taylor if you don't know who that > > > >is, it used to be HAPI. > > > >Adrian > > > > > > > >Jeff York wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That is the strange thing. It runs as smooth as silk. I would have > >never > > > > > guessed that the compression tests would come out this way. I > >actually > > > >did > > > > > them several times, rechecking the bank that was giving good > >readings > > > >and > > > > > then checking the other bank. Always with the same results, low > > > >compression > > > > > on one side. > > > > > > > > > > The last time I flew the plane it ran fine, that was a couple months > > > >ago. > > > > > The only thing that I have ever noticed is that it's a bit-h to > >start > > > >when > > > > > it's cold. But I don't have a primer and I have always found manual > > > >choke > > > > > engines are more difficult to start. It takes to many blades to kick > > > >over. > > > > > > > > > > I hope to get out of the office tonight at a descent time and get > >back > > > >to > > > > > the hanger. I will try the oil in the cylinders to eliminate the > >rings. > > > >I > > > > > stopped by Sears yesterday and bought a valve lapping tool and > >spring > > > >tool. > > > > > I hope to just find excessive carbon built up on the valves. > > > > > > > > > > If you have additional feedback please let me know. > > > > > > > > > > Jeff York > > > > > N839BG > > > > > > > > > > >From: cartera > > > > > >To: Jeff York > > > > > >CC: krnet@mailinglists.org > > > > > >Subject: Re: KR> Up Flying > > > > > >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:16:08 -0600 > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello Gang, > > > > > >Want to make a few points here and hopefully enlighten some of the > > > > > >misconceptions. Compression test, it looks like there is too much > > > > > >of a differential there one side is half the pressure of the other, > > > > > >not very smooth running, as Verge mentioned a bit of oil in each > >low > > > > > >cylinder is an indication if it comes up that the problem may lie > >in > > > > > >the rings if no change is evident then it probably will be in the > > > > > >valves/seats. Carbon often builds on the the seats and then don't > > > > > >seal properly. In a car with a down draft carb it's easy by putting > > > > > >in a carbon remover, however with a updraft carb it a bit not > >difficult > > > > > >but you can put some in the cylinder through the plug holes and let > > > > > >it sit at least over night. If the pressure comes up to within 20 > >lbs. > > > > > >of the good cylinders, you've won. If not then your due for a top > > > > > >cylinder repair. > > > > > >Do not fly with this deferential because something will give > > > > > >and you may dead stick it. > > > > > >Now for carb ice: Every carb works on the Bernoulli principle, > >which > > > > > >states: as velocity increases, pressure drops and heat loss is > > > > > >experienced within the air entering the venturi in your carb. Ice > > > >builds > > > > > >at the opening and at the end of the venturi and is somewhat > >dependent > > > > > >on the relative humidity in the air. At just about all outside air > > > > > >temperatures carb ice can occur. If you had a point of temperature > > > > > >sensor in your carb (which some aircraft have) you would be amazed > >how > > > > > >cold it gets in there. Therefore, ice we fly and a lot of times it > >does > > > > > >not affect us and we don't know that we are carrying ice, but it > > > >happens > > > > > >on every flight. One should always use a bit of heat when rpm falls > > > > > >below 2000. I have always used a bit of carb heat at appropriate > >times > > > > > >even in cruise and occasional bit of carb heat, not all the time > >but > > > > > >a bit for a few minutes or so, keep an eye on the rpm which is a > >good > > > > > >indicator of some ice build. Never, never pull the carb heat on > >full > > > > > >because you will set yourself up for a dead stick landing. The ice > > > > > >releases at once and flames out the engine. Just a bit at a time > >and > > > > > >give it time to slowly melt out. Hope this will help some to > >understand > > > > > >some of the physics of carb operation. Take Care, Happy Building > >and > > > > > >Flying! Fly the AIRPLANE! > > > > > > > > > > > >Adrian VE6AFY > > > > > >cartera@cuug.ab.ca > > > > > >http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > > > > > > > > > >Jeff York wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what they are getting in their compression > >checks > > > >on > > > > > > > their 2180 GPAS? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During my annual inspect, I noticed that cylinders 1 and 2 are > >much > > > > > >lower > > > > > > > then 3 and 4. UNless my gauge is screwed up. Cylinders 3 and 4 > >are > > > > > >reading > > > > > > > about 120 psi. 1 and 2 are reading about 60 psi. This test was > >done > > > > > >after > > > > > > > running the engine long enough to bring oil temps up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am running with zenith carb and a mag ignition. The engine > >only > > > >has > > > > > >about > > > > > > > 55 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I checked the tappet clearance and then ran the test again with > > > >little > > > > > >to no > > > > > > > difference. Although It did seem that the tappet clearance on 1 > >and > > > >2 > > > > > >was to > > > > > > > tight so I re-set it to a tight 8 loose 6 per the GPAS manual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am thinking I have a head that needs the valves re ground. Am > >I > > > >going > > > > > >in > > > > > > > the right direction? Is there a method to checking the > >compression > > > >on a > > > > > >GPAS > > > > > > > that is different then the 4 stroke auto engines I have worked > >on in > > > >the > > > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I once worked on a Ford 4 cylinder years ago that had tappets > >out of > > > > > > > adjustment. I thought I was going to have to pull the head > >because > > > >of a > > > > > >low > > > > > > > compression problem. An old mechanic told me that it could be > >carbon > > > > > >build > > > > > > > up on the exhaust valve and to run the engine for a while and > >the > > > >carbon > > > > > > > would release and the compression would come back up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He was right. I can't remember everything he had me do, but it > > > >worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this possible? Or am I just dreaming? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You 2180 or VW long timers give me the scoop. I don't think it > >would > > > >be > > > > > > > rings because that should show as over all low compression on > >all > > > > > >cylinders, > > > > > > > or oil blow by from a damaged oil ring, signs of cylinder > >pressure > > > > > >getting > > > > > > > into the crankcase. > > > > > > > I am not looking for a quick fix. Those never worked on auto > >engines > > > >in > > > > > >the > > > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just want to be sure I am going in the right direction and if > > > >others > > > > > >have > > > > > > > had this problem, what steps or things do I need to do to > >prevent > > > >this > > > > > >from > > > > > > > happening again in the future. > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > > > > > > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > >all" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the KRNet archives at > >http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > > > > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > >all" > > > > > > > > > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > > > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > > > > > > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > > > >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > > > > > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > ><< Torques.jpg >> > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! > > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > > > >-- > >Adrian VE6AFY > >Calgary, Alberta > >Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca > >http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:49:35 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: dimple tape Message-ID: Jeff asks, >Where can I get the 3M dimple tape? Well, I don't know about the 3M brand, but the sailplane guys use the stuff available at http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page29.htm and at least one other source used to be Leading Edge Airfoils, an ultralight supplier, at http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/ Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!  Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:37:02 -0700 To: mailto: From: Tracy & Carol O'Brien Subject: T-88 adhesive Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20021023133702.008ba620@localaccess.com> Netters, T-88 is available directly from the manufacturer, System Three Resins 1-800-333-5514. They also carry silica thickener (Cab-O-Sil), which is what I've used for gluing, mixed with their standard boat building resin for over 18 years. The very best method for end grain gluing is to apply 3 coats of unthickened resin/hardener mix to the end grain, allowing it to soak in, and then apply the resin/hardener mix, thickened with silica thickener as a gap filler just prior to assembly. Regards, Tracy O'Brien ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:57:14 -0500 To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: "Larry A. Capps" Subject: FPL-16A Message-ID: <000001c27ad6$c4287150$0200a8c0@schpankme> Bonding Wood with FPL-16A Epoxy This high-quality epoxy is idea for bonding wood. The formula below* contains a calculated excess of curing agent to insure proper curing. DETA is a drying agent and should not be allowed to contact the skin, and breathing of its vapors should be avoided. A through wash-up and the use of hand lotion will prevent any skin problems from arising. Small cheap brushes can be used to spread FPL-16A in an effective manner. One quart of mixed epoxy applied to both surfaces will join approximately 35 sq. ft. of Sitka Spruce, or 140 sq. ft./gal. No pressure needed during the curing cycle. One and half hour work time is to be expected at room temperatures (75F). The Resin is white and non-staining. The epoxy line does not shrink or produce by-products during cure. FPL-16A has a pleasant odor and produces a fillet, which has the effect of lowering stress concentrations at joint intersections. Overnight will provide sufficient strength to handle, with a 48-hour cure time recommended, with a one-week cure time for complete structural strength. FPL-16A spreads thinner, affecting a cost savings of 50 percent over other epoxy. Several simple rules should be followed 1. The resin component should be thoroughly stirred, as some separation of thinner and white filler will occur with time. A paint paddle is very effective for this purpose. 2. Quantities of stirred resin and curing agent should be carefully measured. 3. Thorough mixing is essential. *Mixing Instructions: Resin Component o 100 parts (by weight) Shell EPON 828 o 30 parts titanium dioxide o 18 parts lacquer thinner o 74 parts (by volume) toluene o 41 parts butyl acetate o 11.7 parts butyl alcohol Curing Agent Component (diethylene triamine) o 13 parts DETA hardener (10 to 1 by volume) Regards, Larry A. Capps KR Newsletter Naperville, IL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:22:28 -0400 To: From: "Ronald Freiberger" Cc: "KRNET" Subject: RE: KR> FPL-16A Message-ID: My N10RF was launched in 1972. The wings were dacron covered spruce spars and plywood ribs. No Nails! I'm told that at recover, it still looked great. On the registry now as N60JD. FPL16A Did a super job! Ron Freiberger... mailto:ron.martha@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Larry A. Capps [mailto:lacapps@attbi.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:57 PM To: KR Builders List (E-mail) Subject: KR> FPL-16A Bonding Wood with FPL-16A Epoxy This high-quality epoxy is idea for bonding wood. The formula below* contains a calculated excess of curing agent to insure proper curing. DETA is a drying agent and should not be allowed to contact the skin, and breathing of its vapors should be avoided. A through wash-up and the use of hand lotion will prevent any skin problems from arising. Small cheap brushes can be used to spread FPL-16A in an effective manner. One quart of mixed epoxy applied to both surfaces will join approximately 35 sq. ft. of Sitka Spruce, or 140 sq. ft./gal. No pressure needed during the curing cycle. One and half hour work time is to be expected at room temperatures (75F). The Resin is white and non-staining. The epoxy line does not shrink or produce by-products during cure. FPL-16A has a pleasant odor and produces a fillet, which has the effect of lowering stress concentrations at joint intersections. Overnight will provide sufficient strength to handle, with a 48-hour cure time recommended, with a one-week cure time for complete structural strength. FPL-16A spreads thinner, affecting a cost savings of 50 percent over other epoxy. Several simple rules should be followed 1. The resin component should be thoroughly stirred, as some separation of thinner and white filler will occur with time. A paint paddle is very effective for this purpose. 2. Quantities of stirred resin and curing agent should be carefully measured. 3. Thorough mixing is essential. *Mixing Instructions: Resin Component o 100 parts (by weight) Shell EPON 828 o 30 parts titanium dioxide o 18 parts lacquer thinner o 74 parts (by volume) toluene o 41 parts butyl acetate o 11.7 parts butyl alcohol Curing Agent Component (diethylene triamine) o 13 parts DETA hardener (10 to 1 by volume) Regards, Larry A. Capps KR Newsletter Naperville, IL --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:22:28 -0500 To: , "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR> FPL-16A Message-ID: <001b01c27aeb$0ef5fae0$0200a8c0@dad> As with Recorcinol (which is brown), I think the only objectionable characteristic of FPL-16A is the white color. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry A. Capps" To: "KR Builders List (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 3:57 PM Subject: KR> FPL-16A > Bonding Wood with FPL-16A Epoxy > > This high-quality epoxy is idea for bonding wood. The formula below* > contains a calculated excess of curing agent to insure proper curing. DETA > is a drying agent and should not be allowed to contact the skin, and > breathing of its vapors should be avoided. A through wash-up and the use of > hand lotion will prevent any skin problems from arising. > > Small cheap brushes can be used to spread FPL-16A in an effective manner. > One quart of mixed epoxy applied to both surfaces will join approximately 35 > sq. ft. of Sitka Spruce, or 140 sq. ft./gal. No pressure needed during the > curing cycle. One and half hour work time is to be expected at room > temperatures (75F). > > The Resin is white and non-staining. The epoxy line does not shrink or > produce by-products during cure. FPL-16A has a pleasant odor and produces a > fillet, which has the effect of lowering stress concentrations at joint > intersections. Overnight will provide sufficient strength to handle, with a > 48-hour cure time recommended, with a one-week cure time for complete > structural strength. FPL-16A spreads thinner, affecting a cost savings of > 50 percent over other epoxy. > > Several simple rules should be followed > 1. The resin component should be thoroughly stirred, as some separation > of thinner and white filler will occur with time. A paint paddle is very > effective for this purpose. > 2. Quantities of stirred resin and curing agent should be carefully > measured. > 3. Thorough mixing is essential. > > *Mixing Instructions: > > Resin Component > o 100 parts (by weight) Shell EPON 828 > o 30 parts titanium dioxide > o 18 parts lacquer thinner > o 74 parts (by volume) toluene > o 41 parts butyl acetate > o 11.7 parts butyl alcohol > > Curing Agent Component (diethylene triamine) > o 13 parts DETA hardener (10 to 1 by volume) > > > Regards, > > Larry A. Capps > KR Newsletter > Naperville, IL > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************