From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 4 Jan 2003 02:56:25 -0000 Issue 597 Date: Friday, January 03, 2003 6:57 PM krnet Digest 4 Jan 2003 02:56:25 -0000 Issue 597 Topics (messages 14227 through 14256): Re: Alamo City Corvair College 14227 by: Jeff York KR-2S engine subaru, corvair, vw? 14228 by: Carrottop104.aol.com Re: tailwheel landing 14229 by: Greg Martin 14254 by: David McKelvey Re: My 2 cents worth on "rammed" carburetor air intake 14230 by: Mark Langford 14232 by: Seifert, Richard E 14238 by: Brian Kraut 14246 by: Ron Thomas Re: For Sale 14231 by: Frank Dungan KR-2S owner/operators with Jabiru 3000 engines 14233 by: Carrottop104.aol.com Martin Hollman Books 14234 by: Brian J Bland 14235 by: Dennis Mingear 14239 by: Steven Eberhart 14245 by: Brian Kraut Re: Discovery Wings 14236 by: Brian Kraut 14247 by: Johnbellselsey.aol.com Who was sending me landing gear for shipping? 14237 by: gleone 14252 by: virgnvs.juno.com Tricycle landing gear KR-1 14240 by: Preben Rafn-Larsen Re: Sport Aviation CD question 14241 by: Mark Langford 14249 by: Robert X. Cringely KR-1 takeoff/landing length? 14242 by: Kevin 14250 by: gleone Re: Fuel Economy , 3 gph, a/c weight, prop selection 14243 by: Donald Blankenship 14244 by: Donald Blankenship KR QUESTIONS 14248 by: Theo Peckham 14253 by: virgnvs.juno.com I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT BUILDING A 2400 CC VW.ENGINE 14251 by: BilAshl.aol.com Comparison 14255 by: Hokanson, Michael J AM1 (VFA-113) 14256 by: Robert X. Cringely Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 10:23:41 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Jeff York" Subject: Re: KR> Alamo City Corvair College Message-ID: I sure would be interested in this if it ever comes near here. Say maybe Louisville, KY or Lexington, KY or even Indianapolis, IN. or Cincinatti, OH or Columbus, OH ect. ect... Jeff York >From: "Oscar Zuniga" >Reply-To: KRnet@mailinglists.org >To: krnet@mailinglists.org, pietenpol-list@matronics.com, >sqrlnet@yahoogroups.com, STOL@onelist.com >Subject: KR> Alamo City Corvair College >Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 09:13:22 -0600 > >Howdy, Vairheads; > >I got a call from William Wynne last night. As I suspected, he had left >for New Jersey just before Christmas so when he got back to Florida his >email account was jammed, his phone answering machine was full, and who >knows what he had waiting for him at the post office box. But... we're >looking good for the upcoming College and folks who called or wrote to him >for parts should be getting action pretty quickly. > >An important correction to note. William prepared and mailed the most >recent Corvair Flyer (his printed newsletter) late at night so he got the >dates for the College wrong. If you see something about Jan. 16-17 don't >despair... it is still set for Saturday, Jan. 18. William will be arriving >sometime around noon on Friday to get set up, but the main workday is >Saturday with details and mop-up on Sunday if anyone is still around and >wants to do anything further. William will be bringing manuals, prop hubs, >oil pans, hybrid studs, and other items that he sells. We will also have a >press (for piston pins and crank hubs), compressed air and tools, jigs for >holding case halves and cylinders, and assembly >lube/form-a-gasket/lubriplate type stuff. > >Things to bring if you're building an engine (or dismantling, or >converting): bring your own hand tools such as wrenches, screwdrivers, and >a big hammer ;o) also plenty of carb cleaner and degreaser if you're >dismantling or cleaning/prepping. If you have any sort of folding tables >or portable workbenches, those will be helpful too. Rags are always needed >(such as discarded Texas Aggies shirts) and coffee cans or other containers >for dismantled stuff. > >The CORSA guys might be looking over our shoulders just for fun and general >interest, and the local EAA chapter members have all been invited via this >month's Chapter newsletter and email. I'll be giving the program on 1/11 >to the Chapter and of course it will be on the Corvair. My plan is to have >a table up front with the complete, disassembled, painted and prepped >engine available for show and tell, as well as the manual available for >browsing. There shouldn't be a speck of grease or grime on any of it! >Thanks to Mark Langford and Pat Panzera for setting the construction and >cleanliness standards high for the rest of us to follow. > >I will post updates and more detailed directions on getting to San Geronimo >Airpark on the http://www.corvaircraft.com main webpage (thanks, Pat!) > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional >commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:05:43 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Carrottop104@aol.com Subject: KR-2S engine subaru, corvair, vw? Message-ID: 
My name is Larry Noel and I considering to build a KR-2S.  I am an A&P and 
have an FCC license.  I have done avionics installation and do aircraft 
electrical systems.  My question is, How best to power this aircraft?  I have 
a subaru EJ-22 that I could use. I am looking at an in line planetary gear 
drive to use with it. I would have 160, HP but a lot of weight, about 270 
lbs.  And know that increased power doesn't mean much if you increase the 
weight too much. But how successful have they relay been?  I am also 
conceding the Great Plains VW 2180 rear drive package or the 110 hp corvair. 
How dose you airplane perform with a basic or modified Subaru, VW or corvair 
power plant.  If you have any experience with any of these engine choices 
please let me know.  You can E-mail me at carrottop104@aol.com or tell the 
world about your experience.  Thank you.  If you need help with electrical 
please right me. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:27:40 -0800
To: 
From: Greg Martin 
Subject: Re: KR> tailwheel landing
Message-ID: <002101c2b3a9$a23f5660$6401a8c0@user>

Bill Starrs Prescott, AZ

Hi Bill.  I saw that you have a KR-1.  I too have a the same and have a
partner living in Prescott Valley.  I'll have to get in touch with you and
see what you have.

I've moved the fuel into the wings and fared the gear in the same manner as
the Bellanca Viking clalm shells.

I'll talk to you later.

Greg S. Martin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:44:36 -0600
To: 
From: "David McKelvey" 
Subject: RE: KR> tailwheel landing
Message-ID: 

This tailwheel debate is beggining to miss the point.  The best reason for
flying a homebuilt is so that you can build what you want exactly to your
specs/prefs.  As for me, I started out wanting to go tri for the same
reasons everyone has mentioned, but I couldn't resist the savings in cost
and weight, throw in 5 MPH and it was too much.  I decided not to let the
tailwheel scare me and you can't deny the looks on the ground.  It's a
package deal build it the way you like it, you're the one that will be
flying it.  I like Serge's idea to get some time in a taildragger before you
decide.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Drsavage1@aol.com [mailto:Drsavage1@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 11:15 PM
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: KR> tailwheel landing

Most modern airplanes are made with a tricycle landing gear.  There must be
a
reason for that.  With all the difficulties with tailwheel aircraft, it
seems
to me that most builders would opt for the tricycle configuration.  In fact,
tricycle landing gear with a speedbrake  seems to me like the ideal combo.
That's how I built mine and I find it very easy to land.  I would also like
to add this observation:  I've had my CFI for about 15 years.  Whenever I
give flight reviews or aircraft checkouts, the most obvious weakness of a
noncurrent pilot is in the landings.  If someone doesn't fly on a regular
basis, the skill required to master the taildragger degrades much faster
than
the currency needed to master a tricycle airplane.  Therefore, if you don't
have the time or inclination to fly regularly to keep you landing skills
sharp, why push your luck?  Sure, a taildragger looks better than a tricycle
while sitting on the ramp, and it's going to be a few knots faster also.
But
after putting in all the time and expense of building the neat little
airplane, why not play it safe?  Because in aviation...safety is where it's
at.

Any responses?

RV

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:49:23 -0600
To: 
From: "Mark Langford" 
Subject: Re: KR> My 2 cents worth on "rammed" carburetor air intake
Message-ID: <09a301c2b348$149dd360$0100a8c0@TD310>

Serge wrote:

> 1)..
> 2) There will necessarily be a huge difference in mixture richness between
> the rammed air intake and the air filter intake. So, unless you have a
very
> effective mixture control, you run the risk of killing the engine when you
> operate the valve.
> 3)...

I'd like to expound on number 2).  Jim hill used to have an air filter that
resembled a Cessna's, just a square filter stuck on the bottom of the
cowling.  He wanted ram air to he made a cool looking snorkel affair like
Marty has on his plane, and he spent a few days making one.  Before he flew
it, he test ran it and had no problems, maybe even got a few more rpms out
of it static.  But on the first flight, as soon as he finished climbing to
pattern altitude and started picking up speed, the engine quit altogether,
with no warning.  Considering the 75 foot trees on one end of our 40 foot
wide, 2400 foot long runway, this was not a good thing. (This runway is why
he always did well at "spot landing" contests at the Gatherings).  He
basically landed over a 75 foot obstacle, doing 150 mph.  Needless to say,
he quickly found himself plowing up cotton off the end of the runway,
eventually nosing it over in a ditch.  He broke the cowling, canopy, and the
tail off the plane, although all he suffered was a bruised knee and bruised
pride.  It took him 2 years to get his plane back into flying condition.

Post mortem speculation (and the point of this tale) is that he should have
vented the float bowl to the ram air too, rather than keeping the vent
isolated towards the engine compartment. I forget exactly what carb he was
using, but it had a separate tube for venting the float chamber.  The moral
is to vent the float bowl to the same pressure that the throat is seeing, or
you might risk having your bowl pressurized by the ram air from the venturi
end, starving it for fuel.

Oh, and the reason I'm going tailwheel is because everybody who flies one
tells me that it'll make you a better pilot all the way around, giving you a
better understanding of the controls and how you make the plane do exactly
what you want.  I'm all for that!  Also, I'm going to be flying into a sod
field on my father's farm alot, and would promptly rip the nose wheel off, I
suspect.  But I can  understand why others would want trigear.  I should
probably mention that Jim converted from taildragger to trigear during the
repair phase, and liked the trigear better.  Maybe we should just call it a
preference.

Trim tab's almost done...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:25:55 -0800 
To: "'KRnet@mailinglists.org'" 
From: "Seifert, Richard E" 
Subject: RE: KR> My 2 cents worth on "rammed" carburetor air intake
Message-ID: <9BA7A06DA8127B4B925954F3F8705D3405B8BA65@XCH-SW-09.sw.nos.boeing.com>

I would like to add one point to Marks excellent note on "rammed" carburetor
air. If you run the rammed air pressure to the float chamber you will also
be reducing the effective head pressure between the fuel tank
(un-pressurized) and the float bowel (now pressurized).  This has little
effect if you use a fuel pump; but if you are using gravity feed you may
reduce fuel flow to below the minimum required to run the engine.  Instant
detonation resulted (Very Bad) in my case.  Fortunately by closing off the
ram air I was able to continue to my destination.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net]
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 8:49 AM
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: KR> My 2 cents worth on "rammed" carburetor air intake

Serge wrote:

> 1)..
> 2) There will necessarily be a huge difference in mixture richness between
> the rammed air intake and the air filter intake. So, unless you have a
very
> effective mixture control, you run the risk of killing the engine when you
> operate the valve.
> 3)...

I'd like to expound on number 2).  Jim hill used to have an air filter that
resembled a Cessna's, just a square filter stuck on the bottom of the
cowling.  He wanted ram air to he made a cool looking snorkel affair like
Marty has on his plane, and he spent a few days making one.  Before he flew
it, he test ran it and had no problems, maybe even got a few more rpms out
of it static.  But on the first flight, as soon as he finished climbing to
pattern altitude and started picking up speed, the engine quit altogether,
with no warning.  Considering the 75 foot trees on one end of our 40 foot
wide, 2400 foot long runway, this was not a good thing. (This runway is why
he always did well at "spot landing" contests at the Gatherings).  He
basically landed over a 75 foot obstacle, doing 150 mph.  Needless to say,
he quickly found himself plowing up cotton off the end of the runway,
eventually nosing it over in a ditch.  He broke the cowling, canopy, and the
tail off the plane, although all he suffered was a bruised knee and bruised
pride.  It took him 2 years to get his plane back into flying condition.

Post mortem speculation (and the point of this tale) is that he should have
vented the float bowl to the ram air too, rather than keeping the vent
isolated towards the engine compartment. I forget exactly what carb he was
using, but it had a separate tube for venting the float chamber.  The moral
is to vent the float bowl to the same pressure that the throat is seeing, or
you might risk having your bowl pressurized by the ram air from the venturi
end, starving it for fuel.

Oh, and the reason I'm going tailwheel is because everybody who flies one
tells me that it'll make you a better pilot all the way around, giving you a
better understanding of the controls and how you make the plane do exactly
what you want.  I'm all for that!  Also, I'm going to be flying into a sod
field on my father's farm alot, and would promptly rip the nose wheel off, I
suspect.  But I can  understand why others would want trigear.  I should
probably mention that Jim converted from taildragger to trigear during the
repair phase, and liked the trigear better.  Maybe we should just call it a
preference.

Trim tab's almost done...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:34:01 -0500 (EST)
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org, svidal@icon.co.za
From: Brian Kraut 
Subject: Re: KR> My 2 cents worth on "rammed" carburetor air intake
Message-ID: <4756927.1041622180239.JavaMail.nobody@daisy.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

I spoke to someone at Revmaster about their intake.  My assumption on how it worked was correct.  You basically either have cool unfiltered ram air from outside or you have filtered warm air from inside the cowl.  On takeoff you determine if you need more power or if it is dusty and you need the filter, but you can't have both.  That will still suffice most of the time.

One side effect of their system is that when you are using the ram air some of it actually will blow through the filter and into the cowling.  They say that that normalizes your ram pressure a bit and keeps the mixture changes at different speeds lower.  Sort of makes it a self cleaning filter a little also.

I decided against their setup only because I have a float carb and I don't think I would get enough carb heat with it.  You don't need as much carb heat with their carb so it should work fine.

I would definitely recommend a wire mesh with any unfiltered ram air system.  My plane had some window screen type mesh in the intake.

-------Original Message-------
From: Serge Vidal 
Sent: 01/03/03 04:07 AM
To: krnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: KR> My 2 cents worth on "rammed" carburetor air intake

> 
> I gave that rammed air intake going through the air filter some thought. I
like the idea, and I think it could certainly improve my engine
performance
(today, the intake is directly at the carburetor mouth, through a paper
filter; therefore, my engine sucks warm air from inside the cowling; I am
probably running permanently on the "carb heat" mode).

This being said:

1) I think it is a very bad idea to get totally unfiltered rammed air
directly in your carburetor, even in altitude. You can encounter dust,
insects, birds or what have you even at very high altitude, and any
foreign
object ingress in the carb could be fatal. You could also forget from time
to time to close the valve during take-off and landing, and then, foreign
object ingress would become highly probable. Solution to that: put a very
basic filter on the air duct (say, a thin metal mesh, and some air
conditioner filter material - which is not water sensitive).

2) There will necessarily be a huge difference in mixture richness between
the rammed air intake and the air filter intake. So, unless you have a
very
effective mixture control, you run the risk of killing the engine when you
operate the valve.

3) You would run with less power near the ground, that is when you need it
most: at take-off and landing.

Serge Vidal
KR2 ZS-WEC
Johannesburg, South Africa

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> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:20:08 -0500
To: 
From: "Ron Thomas" 
Subject: Re: KR> My 2 cents worth on "rammed" carburetor air intake
Message-ID: <001001c2b37e$a8a91660$c843a8c0@faaguy>

I agree on useing some type screen over the cowling intake, but I would
question something as fine as window screen.  I see a posibility of it
getting clogged with ice in certian conditions.  I know most flying is done
in above freezing weather, but the right temp./moisture  may coat such a
fine screen with ice.  An aulternate air source could be rigged as with the
ram air/ internal filtered air
system. Just thinking out loud.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" 
To: ; 
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: KR> My 2 cents worth on "rammed" carburetor air intake

> I spoke to someone at Revmaster about their intake.  My assumption on how
it worked was correct.  You basically either have cool unfiltered ram air
from outside or you have filtered warm air from inside the cowl.  On takeoff
you determine if you need more power or if it is dusty and you need the
filter, but you can't have both.  That will still suffice most of the time.
>
> One side effect of their system is that when you are using the ram air
some of it actually will blow through the filter and into the cowling.  They
say that that normalizes your ram pressure a bit and keeps the mixture
changes at different speeds lower.  Sort of makes it a self cleaning filter
a little also.
>
> I decided against their setup only because I have a float carb and I don't
think I would get enough carb heat with it.  You don't need as much carb
heat with their carb so it should work fine.
>
> I would definitely recommend a wire mesh with any unfiltered ram air
system.  My plane had some window screen type mesh in the intake.
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Serge Vidal 
> Sent: 01/03/03 04:07 AM
> To: krnet@mailinglists.org
> Subject: KR> My 2 cents worth on "rammed" carburetor air intake
>
> >
> > I gave that rammed air intake going through the air filter some thought.
I
> like the idea, and I think it could certainly improve my engine
> performance
> (today, the intake is directly at the carburetor mouth, through a paper
> filter; therefore, my engine sucks warm air from inside the cowling; I am
> probably running permanently on the "carb heat" mode).
>
> This being said:
>
> 1) I think it is a very bad idea to get totally unfiltered rammed air
> directly in your carburetor, even in altitude. You can encounter dust,
> insects, birds or what have you even at very high altitude, and any
> foreign
> object ingress in the carb could be fatal. You could also forget from time
> to time to close the valve during take-off and landing, and then, foreign
> object ingress would become highly probable. Solution to that: put a very
> basic filter on the air duct (say, a thin metal mesh, and some air
> conditioner filter material - which is not water sensitive).
>
> 2) There will necessarily be a huge difference in mixture richness between
> the rammed air intake and the air filter intake. So, unless you have a
> very
> effective mixture control, you run the risk of killing the engine when you
> operate the valve.
>
> 3) You would run with less power near the ground, that is when you need it
> most: at take-off and landing.
>
> Serge Vidal
> KR2 ZS-WEC
> Johannesburg, South Africa
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files
>
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
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>
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 10:57:31 -0600
To: 
From: "Frank Dungan" 
Subject: Re: KR> For Sale
Message-Id: 

Hello dave,
I sold the 1976 KR, but the person buying indicated that he was only after =
the engine=20
and other hardware.  I don't think he wants the wings. If you like I will =
try to arrange it=20
so that you can buy the wings. I will take a good look at the condition of =
the wings and=20
send you a report and photos.  I believe they are usable but one of them =
has some damage.=20

I'm located near Wichita KS, and the plane is moving to Wyoming.  You =
might consider how=20
best to ship, and an offer I can shoot him.

Frank Dungan
316-744-0106 (week-ends)
918-292-1371 (work hours)

>>> d.clinthorne@adelphia.net 01/01/03 11:33AM >>>
Frank,I need wings. Are they useable?
Please let me know.
Happy New year.
Dave Clinthorne 540-786-9738
Fredericksburg, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Dungan" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 4:12 PM
Subject: KR> For Sale

For Sale - -  Two Projects

1.  Damaged KR2 built in 1976
     Can be returned to flight condition or used for parts.
     Plane was ground looped and is damaged in various places, but none
appear to be structural.
     It has most of the parts needed to return it to service including a =
new
canopy.  Has a converted VW engine & fixed gear.

2. KR2 Project
    Most of the wood construction complete. No glass work done but has
several preformed glass parts.  Sitting on retractable gear.

Location: near Wichita KS
If your serious give me a call... one or both  - - I need this stuff out =
of
my barn!

Frank Dungan
Work: 918-292-1371
Home: 316-744-0106

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:58:02 EST
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: Carrottop104@aol.com
Subject: KR-2S owner/operators with Jabiru 3000 engines
Message-ID: <18c.13e96c32.2b47292a@aol.com>


My name is Larry and I was told by a man named Bob on this site, that the 
Jabiru 3000 engine was a super power plant for the KR-2S.  If you have 
experience flying a KR-2 with a Jabiru 3000 please contact me about it's 
performance. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:21:25 -0600
To: 
From: "Brian J Bland" 
Subject: Martin Hollman Books
Message-ID: 

Has anybody seen Martin Hollman's books on aircraft design?  I am looking
for info on composite spar design and I believe one of his books talks alot
about it.  Anybody know of any good books on this subject?

Brian J Bland
Claremore, OK

mailto:bruiser@dellepro.com
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/2002

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 10:22:59 -0800 (PST)
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: Dennis Mingear 
Subject: Re: KR> Martin Hollman Books
Message-ID: <20030103182259.52665.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

Go to this link http://www.sailplanehomebuilders.com/
and scroll to the bottom of the page. You will find a
very interesting article on carbon spar design.

Dennis ...

--- Brian J Bland  wrote:
> Has anybody seen Martin Hollman's books on aircraft
> design?  I am looking
> for info on composite spar design and I believe one
> of his books talks alot
> about it.  Anybody know of any good books on this
> subject?
> 
> Brian J Bland
> Claremore, OK
> 
> mailto:bruiser@dellepro.com
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release
> Date: 10/24/2002
> 
> 
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:02:24 -0600
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: Steven Eberhart 
Subject: Re: KR> Martin Hollman Books
Message-ID: <3E15EC50.10806@newtech.com>

Brian,

I have his books and they are OK.  Back in the Area 51 days Mark 
Lougheed put together a Math Cad work sheet to design a composite spar 
including the lay up schedule based on Hollman's formulas.  Mark had to 
correct a couple of errors in the formulas though.  I don't know if Mark 
is monitoring the list any more but you might try contacting him to see 
if he still has a copy of the work sheets.

Steve Eberhart

Brian J Bland wrote:

> Has anybody seen Martin Hollman's books on aircraft design?  I am looking
> for info on composite spar design and I believe one of his books talks alot
> about it.  Anybody know of any good books on this subject?
> 
> Brian J Bland
> Claremore, OK
> 
> mailto:bruiser@dellepro.com
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/2002
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> 
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
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> See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 14:47:26 -0500 (EST)
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: Brian Kraut 
Subject: Re: KR> Martin Hollman Books
Message-ID: <2233509.1041633842703.JavaMail.nobody@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

I have them and I wasn't terribly impressed, especially for the price.  Alex Strojnick wrote some better books and they are available from Aircraft Spruce.  

I downloaded the demo Aircraft PDQ design software, but haven't had a chance to play with it yet.  Anyone tried it and have any comments?

-------Original Message-------
From: Brian J Bland 
Sent: 01/03/03 01:21 PM
To: krnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: KR> Martin Hollman Books

> Has anybody seen Martin Hollman's books on aircraft design?  I am looking
for info on composite spar design and I believe one of his books talks alot
about it.  Anybody know of any good books on this subject?

Brian J Bland
Claremore, OK

mailto:bruiser@dellepro.com
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:15:28 -0500 (EST)
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: Brian Kraut 
Subject: Re: Re: KR> Discovery Wings
Message-ID: <2779084.1041621066712.JavaMail.nobody@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

I saw the series available on videocassette or DVD in one of the aviation magazines.  It was either Sport Aviation or AOPA pilot, but I don't remember which.  You could probably buy it off the Discovery Channel web site also.  Don't remember how much it was other tan fairly expensive.  $70-$90 seems to ring a bell.

-------Original Message-------
From: James Wester 
Sent: 01/02/03 09:13 PM
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: KR> Discovery Wings

> 
> Sorry I'm late  Jeff  ; What I've seen has been on Sunday nights , and
Mondays (repeat) .I just happened to come across the whole business with
them building the RV late last winter .It went on for months ; one Sunday
at
a time , 30 min . a shot .They would also throw in some bits involving
older
aircraft restoration as well ! - just to keep it interesting for all , I
guess . What I really like , though , is the overseas action ; some fellow
in England  (Popular Flying Ass.?) decides to build a Europa - and at the
same time , learn to fly ! He's quite the wit . Last I checked , He's into
choppers now !? I'm too busy to keep up ......
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff York 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Discovery Wings

>
>
>
>
> James,
>
> Just relized that I get Discovery Wings but didn't have it programed in.
>
> I didn't see the first part of this message but was curious. Is Dwings
> currently doing a program on homebuilts or is this a program coming in
the
> future? If it is a current program tell me when this program is aired.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> >From: "James Wester" 
> >Reply-To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
> >To: 
> >Subject: KR> Discovery  Wings
> >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:07:24 -0500
> >
> >I'll second that , Kevin . As long as popular projects are what they
would
> >consider for the program , why not the KR series ? If not , I'd settle
for
> >the GlaStar with an Eggenfellner , or an NSI mill up front . I hope
that
> >future projects will have them going a little slower in the area
forward
of
> >the fire wall , though !
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
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>
>

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or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files

> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:54:46 EST
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: Johnbellselsey@aol.com
Subject: Re: KR> Discovery Wings
Message-ID: <1be.19f8c0fb.2b477cc6@aol.com>

The videos are available through the Popular Flying Association (PFA) but=20
unfortunately are not compatible with the US (NTSC) TV system.  Try the PFA=20
website www.pfa.org.uk The videos cost =A317.64 here in the UK which I think=
 is=20
around $30.  It may be possible to get them converted from the European to=20
the US system.

The series was a great influence on me to learn to fly and build my own=20
aircraft. I'm building a KR2 with a 2100 Revmaster engine and Dan Diehl=20
pre-moulded wings.  The Europa is a great aircraft but four or five times as=
=20
expensive to build than a KR2 here in the UK.

  =20

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 12:16:28 -0600
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: gleone 
Subject: Who was sending me landing gear for shipping?
Message-ID: <3E15D37C.8B23A7D8@tritel.net>

--------------266BB1816D7904A8920D0ED5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Who was sending me landing gear for shipping?  I forgot who it was and
can't find the message.  Anyway, I just wanted to say you don't need to
as after all the discussion on conventional versus tricycle gear, I
decided to go with the trike' gear.  I think someone else was also
asking about them so if you're reading this, contact the fellow I was
going to get them from.  I hope that is perfectly confusing enough for
everyone!  Sorry 'bout that!  Gene Leone, Worland, Wyoming

--------------266BB1816D7904A8920D0ED5--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:22:28 -0500
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: virgnvs@juno.com
Cc: KRnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: KR> Who was sending me landing gear for shipping?
Message-ID: <20030103.214030.-513495.0.virgnvs@juno.com>

        Virgil inquired about one, Virg

On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 12:16:28 -0600 gleone  writes:
> Who was sending me landing gear for shipping?  I forgot who it was 
> and
> can't find the message.  Anyway, I just wanted to say you don't need 
> to
> as after all the discussion on conventional versus tricycle gear, I
> decided to go with the trike' gear.  I think someone else was also
> asking about them so if you're reading this, contact the fellow I 
> was
> going to get them from.  I hope that is perfectly confusing enough 
> for
> everyone!  Sorry 'bout that!  Gene Leone, Worland, Wyoming
> 
> 

Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL
WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:56:24 +0100
To: "kr mailinglist.org." 
From: "Preben Rafn-Larsen" 
Subject: Tricycle landing gear KR-1
Message-ID: <003b01c2b36a$95430d60$e524fea9@oemcomputer>

------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C2B372.F597B8C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has anybody seen a KR-1 with Fix tri-gear.? And where can I obtain this =
part?also need a center stick assy. and canopy for KR-1=20
Preben , Copenhagen,Denmark=20

------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C2B372.F597B8C0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:19:22 -0600
To: "KRnet" 
From: "Mark Langford" 
Subject: Fw: Sport Aviation CD question
Message-ID: <0a0c01c2b36d$c9687af0$0100a8c0@TD310>

NetHeads,

For those of you who've bought the fifty years of Sport Aviation on CD (my
wonderful wife gave it to me for Christmas) the information below may be
helpful.  It's actually something like 28 CDs and every search requires you
to swap CDs  back and forth to get the one you need for each article.
Anyway, I asked their tech support folks how to keep from having to do that
and the instructions are below.  Of course, you'll need about 20 gig of free
disk space for all of them.  No sweat, I just bought an 80 gig for eighty
bucks from somewhere off the web (check www.pricewatch.com), so I'm good to
go.

Check the instructions below on how to keep from swapping CDs in and out.  I
guessed the first few steps, and I couldn't guess the regedit part, but I
knew there had to be a way...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Deimer" 
To: "Mark Langford" 
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: SACD Technical Support Question

> Mark~
>
> Yes, you are not the first person to want to bypass all of that CD
shuffling. It is possible, but it takes some computer settings changing to
get it to work. Below are instructions on how to get the program to work off
of the hard drive. Essentially you are fooling the program to think that the
hard drive is your CD drive. Please note that you don't need to copy the
Installation CD to the hard drive, just the data CDs.
>
> Let me know if you need anything else!
> Gregg Deimer
> EAA Tech Support
>
> PS Nice KR2S...it looks like it coming along!
>
> ---------------------Instructions----------------------
> 1. Install the program as you would normally do. (Insert install CD and
follow steps)
> 2. After Installation is complete, select a hard drive for ALL of the CDs
to be copied to.
> 3. The files must be copied to the root of the hard drive. Meaning if you
get a new hard drive and it becomes your F: drive, you must copy everything
to F:. Trying to put everything in a subfolder will not work (i.e.
F:\eaa_archives will NOT work.)
> 4. Copy the contents of each CD to the root of the selected hard drive.
You can do this by browsing to the data CD, selecting all of the folders and
.txt files, and copy it to the hard drive. Again, make sure each CD is
copied to the root.
> 5. After all of the CDs have been copied over (which will take a couple
hours), go to the Start menu and click on 'Run'.
> 6. In the 'Open' text box, type regedit and click 'OK'.
> 7. The registry editor will open. Open up the folders on the left to find
the following folder and click on the folder:
> My Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\EAA
> 8. On the right of the window you should find 3 entries. On 'CDDrive',
right click and choose 'Modify'. In the 'Value Data' text field, type the
letter of the hard drive in which you have copied all of the DATA CDs. (for
the example I've been using, I would type F ... don't type any colon or
slashes)
> 9. Exit out of the registry editor.
> 10. Start up the EAA archive and now you should be able to view issues
without using the CDs.
>
> Please also note that as long as the registry setting shows a different
drive than your CD-ROM drive, your data CDs will not work because it is now
looking at the new location you specified. If you do all of the above steps
and it still asks for the CD, something is wrong and you may have to start
the process over again. On a good note, everything can be set to it's
default configuration (looking at the CD-ROM drive) simply by reinstalling
the product.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 9:26 PM
> To: sacd
> Subject: SACD Technical Support Question
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to figure out how I can copy the CDs directly to my hard drive,
> so that when I search for something, it'll just find it instantly on drive
> "J", or wherever, rather than forcing me to swap a hundred CDs in and out.
> I copied both the installation disk and the remaining 28 or whatever into
> the same directory.  The search_sl.html works, and I go through the
motions
> of doing a search, but after it shows me that it found 20 matches, and I
> click on the article, all I get is a little screen that says "server not
> found" and your basic "couldn't find" message.  Any ideas as to how I
could
> fix this?  The thought of shuffling all those CDs in and out isn't very
> appealing to me...
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL
> mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
> see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:11:47 -0800
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: "Robert X. Cringely" 
Subject: Re: KR> Fw: Sport Aviation CD question
Message-Id: 

Thanks, Mark.  I got that CD collection for Christmas, too, and 
shuffling those disks is a pain.  But anything is easier than looking 
through all those magazines. I have one of the few Experimenter/Sport 
Aviation libraries all the way from 1953 to the present and it 
amounts to 280 lbs of slowly-aging paper.

Bob

>NetHeads,
>
>For those of you who've bought the fifty years of Sport Aviation on CD (my
>wonderful wife gave it to me for Christmas) the information below may be
>helpful.  It's actually something like 28 CDs and every search requires you
>to swap CDs  back and forth to get the one you need for each article.
>Anyway, I asked their tech support folks how to keep from having to do that
>and the instructions are below.  Of course, you'll need about 20 gig of free
>disk space for all of them.  No sweat, I just bought an 80 gig for eighty
>bucks from somewhere off the web (check www.pricewatch.com), so I'm good to
>go.
>
>Check the instructions below on how to keep from swapping CDs in and out.  I
>guessed the first few steps, and I couldn't guess the regedit part, but I
>knew there had to be a way...
>
>Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
>mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
>see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gregg Deimer" 
>To: "Mark Langford" 
>Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:01 PM
>Subject: RE: SACD Technical Support Question
>
>
>>  Mark~
>>
>>  Yes, you are not the first person to want to bypass all of that CD
>shuffling. It is possible, but it takes some computer settings changing to
>get it to work. Below are instructions on how to get the program to work off
>of the hard drive. Essentially you are fooling the program to think that the
>hard drive is your CD drive. Please note that you don't need to copy the
>Installation CD to the hard drive, just the data CDs.
>>
>>  Let me know if you need anything else!
>>  Gregg Deimer
>>  EAA Tech Support
>>
>>  PS Nice KR2S...it looks like it coming along!
>>
>>  ---------------------Instructions----------------------
>>  1. Install the program as you would normally do. (Insert install CD and
>follow steps)
>>  2. After Installation is complete, select a hard drive for ALL of the CDs
>to be copied to.
>>  3. The files must be copied to the root of the hard drive. Meaning if you
>get a new hard drive and it becomes your F: drive, you must copy everything
>to F:. Trying to put everything in a subfolder will not work (i.e.
>F:\eaa_archives will NOT work.)
>>  4. Copy the contents of each CD to the root of the selected hard drive.
>You can do this by browsing to the data CD, selecting all of the folders and
>.txt files, and copy it to the hard drive. Again, make sure each CD is
>copied to the root.
>>  5. After all of the CDs have been copied over (which will take a couple
>hours), go to the Start menu and click on 'Run'.
>>  6. In the 'Open' text box, type regedit and click 'OK'.
>>  7. The registry editor will open. Open up the folders on the left to find
>the following folder and click on the folder:
>>  My Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\EAA
>>  8. On the right of the window you should find 3 entries. On 'CDDrive',
>right click and choose 'Modify'. In the 'Value Data' text field, type the
>letter of the hard drive in which you have copied all of the DATA CDs. (for
>the example I've been using, I would type F ... don't type any colon or
>slashes)
>>  9. Exit out of the registry editor.
>>  10. Start up the EAA archive and now you should be able to view issues
>without using the CDs.
>>
>>  Please also note that as long as the registry setting shows a different
>drive than your CD-ROM drive, your data CDs will not work because it is now
>looking at the new location you specified. If you do all of the above steps
>and it still asks for the CD, something is wrong and you may have to start
>the process over again. On a good note, everything can be set to it's
>default configuration (looking at the CD-ROM drive) simply by reinstalling
>the product.
>>
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Mark Langford [mailto:langford@hiwaay.net]
>>  Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 9:26 PM
>>  To: sacd
>>  Subject: SACD Technical Support Question
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  I'm trying to figure out how I can copy the CDs directly to my hard drive,
>>  so that when I search for something, it'll just find it instantly on drive
>>  "J", or wherever, rather than forcing me to swap a hundred CDs in and out.
>>  I copied both the installation disk and the remaining 28 or whatever into
>>  the same directory.  The search_sl.html works, and I go through the
>motions
>>  of doing a search, but after it shows me that it found 20 matches, and I
>>  click on the article, all I get is a little screen that says "server not
>>  found" and your basic "couldn't find" message.  Any ideas as to how I
>could
>>  fix this?  The thought of shuffling all those CDs in and out isn't very
>>  appealing to me...
>>
>>  Thanks a lot,
>>
>>  Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL
>>  mailto:langford@hiwaay.net
>>  see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>
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-- 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 13:29:28 -0800
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: " Kevin"
Subject: KR-1 takeoff/landing length?
Message-ID: 

What would be the smallest field that I could fly a KR-1 out of?  I have an
airport about 2 miles away, but would like to keep a KR-1 at home.

Kevin Golden
Harrisonville, MO

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:16:32 -0600
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: gleone 
Subject: Re: KR> KR-1 takeoff/landing length?
Message-ID: <3E1635F0.E55330CA@tritel.net>

--------------487F7BE95D4F1D735816FDDB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Well, there was this WWII pilot from Poland who managed to take off and land on
what he described as the "shortest but WIDEST runway he'd ever seen!"  It was
about 100 feet long and nearly 2 miles wide.  Sorry, couldn't help myself!

Kevin wrote:

> What would be the smallest field that I could fly a KR-1 out of?  I have an
> airport about 2 miles away, but would like to keep a KR-1 at home.
>
> Kevin Golden
> Harrisonville, MO
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"
>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files

--------------487F7BE95D4F1D735816FDDB--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:03:17 -0500
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: "Donald Blankenship" 
Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Economy , 3 gph, a/c weight, prop selection
Message-ID: <20030103220317.45781.qmail@mail.com>

Mr. Flesner is right on the money as usual. The 0.5 lb/hp figure is a good starting point to estimate fuel consumption. The horsepower that goes into that calculation is horsepower required as opposed to horsepower available. The actual engine rpm, the horsepower required to keep the aircraft aloft, and resulting fuel consumption are dictated by prop selection and aircraft weight and drag.

With a cruise prop, a 525-lb KR (generally achievable with an 1835 cc engine) plus 140-lb pilot, no bags, no passenger, and 12 gallons or less of fuel on board can and get as low as 2.8 gph fuel consumption for the portion of flight that is at about 3200 engine rpm and 3000 feet of altitude for normally-aspirated (non-turbocharged) KR aircraft.

At 3000 feet, the 60-hp 1835 has about 54 hp maximum power available. At 75% power setting, that yields (0.5 lb/hp) / (6.4 gal per pound) x 54 hp x .75 = 3.16 gph (2.74 gph at 65% power setting). But if the loaded weight of the plane is more than about 750 lbs or has a climb prop, the fuel consumption in cruise will be higher. At higher altitudes, the fuel can be leaned out to maximize rpm for a given throttle setting, but the horsepower required to keep the plane aloft is the same as for lower altitudes, so fuel efficiency decreases with increasing altitude for normally-aspirated engines. Turbocharging will increase efficiency at altitude but has its drawbacks. All other considerations held equal, the most fuel efficient KR will have retractable gear, followed by fixed-gear taildraggers, then nosewheel versions, but each of those have their own drawbacks.

--db

----- Original Message -----
From: larry flesner 
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 18:23:25 -0600
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: KR> Fuel Economy 

> >But wouldn't higher fuel burn effecientcy play a part in this.
> >I mean my Lingenfeller modified Corvette  ZR1 with 385HP and over 400 ft 
> >pounds of torque had more power then I knew what to do with on the street.
> But it was very fuel effecient. I measured over 25 mpg on the highway. With
> 5 speed transmission. The newer injected engines seem to produce more power
> with much better fuel economy.
> ====     snip  ============ =============
> >OK, they are not airplanes, but My 145hp Skyhawk burned 9.5 plus gallons per 
> >hour. My Arrow burned a little less than that but had 200 HP.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> 
> The .5 pound per hour per horsepower is a ball park figure for
> aircooled engines of 75 year old technology such as the ones
> we use in our Cessnas and Pipers.  Go look at a farm tractor
> from the 1930's and you will find the same(similar) mags and
> Marvel-Schebler carbs we are using today.
> 
> The fuel burned is for h.p. being produced, not what the 
> engine is capable of producing.  Your Vet, when cruising
> down the highway is probably not producing but maybe
> 30 to 40 hp.  If you ask it to produce the 385 hp continous
> you won't get 25 mpg.  Cars today with water cooled
> engines and the computer controls are constantly changing
> the mixture and spark timing to get maximum effeciency from
> the fuel burned.  There are too many other variables between
> autos to answer your questions on the different mileage gotten
> by each.  I once drove a 1980 Dodge Ram van and it got 10
> miles per gallon no matter how you drove it .  Go figure.
> 
> Your C-172 must have the Continental 0-300.  A friend of mine
> has a C-170 with that engine and his fuel burn is a gallon or
> more per hour more than mine also.  Don't know why.  Just
> the engine/induction/carb design or something.  It's just not
> as effecent for some reason.  Books have been written on
> this subject so I couldn't answer all your questions here even
> if I knew the answers.  Besides, I'm off to a college BB game
> as soon as I hit the send button!!!
> 
> All that being said,  I still urge everyone to know EXACTLY what
> the fuel burn per hour is for the aircraft you fly, know what tach
> time was at last fillup and fly by the numbers.  Oh, it helps to
> know the number of gallon your tank holds also. :-)
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"
> 
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
> 
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:14:22 -0500
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: "Donald Blankenship" 
Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Economy , 3 gph, a/c weight, prop selection
Message-ID: <20030103221422.61984.qmail@mail.com>

Sorry, that was supposed to say 6.4 pounds per gal, not the other way around.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Blankenship" 
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:03:17 -0500
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: KR> Fuel Economy , 3 gph, a/c weight, prop selection 

> Mr. Flesner is right on the money as usual. The 0.5 lb/hp figure is a good starting point to estimate fuel consumption. The horsepower that goes into that calculation is horsepower required as opposed to horsepower available. The actual engine rpm, the horsepower required to keep the aircraft aloft, and resulting fuel consumption are dictated by prop selection and aircraft weight and drag.
> 
> With a cruise prop, a 525-lb KR (generally achievable with an 1835 cc engine) plus 140-lb pilot, no bags, no passenger, and 12 gallons or less of fuel on board can and get as low as 2.8 gph fuel consumption for the portion of flight that is at about 3200 engine rpm and 3000 feet of altitude for normally-aspirated (non-turbocharged) KR aircraft.
> 
> At 3000 feet, the 60-hp 1835 has about 54 hp maximum power available. At 75% power setting, that yields (0.5 lb/hp) / (6.4 gal per pound) x 54 hp x .75 = 3.16 gph (2.74 gph at 65% power setting). But if the loaded weight of the plane is more than about 750 lbs or has a climb prop, the fuel consumption in cruise will be higher. At higher altitudes, the fuel can be leaned out to maximize rpm for a given throttle setting, but the horsepower required to keep the plane aloft is the same as for lower altitudes, so fuel efficiency decreases with increasing altitude for normally-aspirated engines. Turbocharging will increase efficiency at altitude but has its drawbacks. All other considerations held equal, the most fuel efficient KR will have retractable gear, followed by fixed-gear taildraggers, then nosewheel versions, but each of those have their own drawbacks.
> 
> --db
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: larry flesner 
> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 18:23:25 -0600
> To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
> Subject: KR> Fuel Economy 
> 
> > >But wouldn't higher fuel burn effecientcy play a part in this.
> > >I mean my Lingenfeller modified Corvette  ZR1 with 385HP and over 400 ft 
> > >pounds of torque had more power then I knew what to do with on the street.
> > But it was very fuel effecient. I measured over 25 mpg on the highway. With
> > 5 speed transmission. The newer injected engines seem to produce more power
> > with much better fuel economy.
> > ====     snip  ============ =============
> > >OK, they are not airplanes, but My 145hp Skyhawk burned 9.5 plus gallons per 
> > >hour. My Arrow burned a little less than that but had 200 HP.
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > 
> > 
> > The .5 pound per hour per horsepower is a ball park figure for
> > aircooled engines of 75 year old technology such as the ones
> > we use in our Cessnas and Pipers.  Go look at a farm tractor
> > from the 1930's and you will find the same(similar) mags and
> > Marvel-Schebler carbs we are using today.
> > 
> > The fuel burned is for h.p. being produced, not what the 
> > engine is capable of producing.  Your Vet, when cruising
> > down the highway is probably not producing but maybe
> > 30 to 40 hp.  If you ask it to produce the 385 hp continous
> > you won't get 25 mpg.  Cars today with water cooled
> > engines and the computer controls are constantly changing
> > the mixture and spark timing to get maximum effeciency from
> > the fuel burned.  There are too many other variables between
> > autos to answer your questions on the different mileage gotten
> > by each.  I once drove a 1980 Dodge Ram van and it got 10
> > miles per gallon no matter how you drove it .  Go figure.
> > 
> > Your C-172 must have the Continental 0-300.  A friend of mine
> > has a C-170 with that engine and his fuel burn is a gallon or
> > more per hour more than mine also.  Don't know why.  Just
> > the engine/induction/carb design or something.  It's just not
> > as effecent for some reason.  Books have been written on
> > this subject so I couldn't answer all your questions here even
> > if I knew the answers.  Besides, I'm off to a college BB game
> > as soon as I hit the send button!!!
> > 
> > All that being said,  I still urge everyone to know EXACTLY what
> > the fuel burn per hour is for the aircraft you fly, know what tach
> > time was at last fillup and fly by the numbers.  Oh, it helps to
> > know the number of gallon your tank holds also. :-)
> > 
> > Larry Flesner
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"
> > 
> > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
> > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
> > 
> > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files
> > 
> 
> -- 
> __________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
> 
> Meet Singles
> http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"
> 
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org 
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
> 
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:50:14 -0500
To: "THEO & BRENDA PECKHAM" , 
From: "Theo Peckham" 
Subject: KR QUESTIONS
Message-ID: <004a01c2b38b$423ac8d0$633df5cd@Ted>

------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C2B361.5561D630
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   I AM VERY INTERESTED IN BUILDING THE KR IIS. HAVING OWNED AND PILOTED =
 A GRUMMAN YANKEE 125 HP
FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.  I CAN APPRECIATE THE QUICK AND LIGHT HANDLING =
THE KR PILOTS RAVE ABOUT.
   MY FIRST BIG QUESTION IS  : HOW MUCH IS INVESTED IN A COMPLETED  KR =
IIS. I AM SURE THE AMOUNT IS QUITE
VARIED DUE TO EQUIPMENT CHOICES, BUT A BALL PARK AMOUNT IS OK.
   I HAVE RECENTLY MOVED TO THE NORTH TAMPA, FL. AREA AND AM GETTING THE =
GARAGE READY NOW.
                                                      THANKS,  THEO =
PECKHAM
      theobren@xtalwind.net
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C2B361.5561D630--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:37:27 -0500
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: virgnvs@juno.com
Cc: theobren@xtalwind.net,krnet@mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: KR> KR QUESTIONS
Message-ID: <20030103.214030.-513495.1.virgnvs@juno.com>

        Theo, come to SunNFun and attend the KR Dinner, Virg

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:50:14 -0500 "Theo Peckham" 
writes:
>    I AM VERY INTERESTED IN BUILDING THE KR IIS. HAVING OWNED AND 
> PILOTED  A GRUMMAN YANKEE 125 HP
> FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.  I CAN APPRECIATE THE QUICK AND LIGHT 
> HANDLING THE KR PILOTS RAVE ABOUT.
>    MY FIRST BIG QUESTION IS  : HOW MUCH IS INVESTED IN A COMPLETED  
> KR IIS. I AM SURE THE AMOUNT IS QUITE
> VARIED DUE TO EQUIPMENT CHOICES, BUT A BALL PARK AMOUNT IS OK.
>    I HAVE RECENTLY MOVED TO THE NORTH TAMPA, FL. AREA AND AM GETTING 
> THE GARAGE READY NOW.
>                                                       THANKS,  THEO 
> PECKHAM
>       theobren@xtalwind.net

Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL
WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:30:05 EST
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: BilAshl@aol.com
Subject: I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT BUILDING A 2400 CC VW.ENGINE
Message-ID: <1bf.19fc94fa.2b47a12d@aol.com>

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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I would like to know if anyone flying the VW.engine could please send me 
information or at least get in contact with me, i have a type4 case and would 
like to build it myself to at least 2400cc or maybe a little less give or 
take a few cc's I would like to build this engine myself I have a problem 
receiving an engine in the mail some of you probley don't think a thing about 
it but i do, she may sound good running for awhile in the air just something 
to think about sorry for so much of my emput or my thoughts

--part1_1bf.19fc94fa.2b47a12d_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:44:18 +0800 
To: "'KRnet@mailinglists.org'" 
From: "Hokanson, Michael J AM1 (VFA-113)"
	 
Subject: Comparison
Message-ID: 

Has anyone done any flight/handling/construction comparisons with the KR1 or
KR2 and the little Hummelbird?  I know the Hummelbird is a metal
construction, 1/2 VW powered bird, and obviously smaller and lighter.  Would
like to hear from anyone who has dealt with one.  They have a few builders
online, but would like to hear from a KR enthusiast who has dealt with both.
Thanks,

Mike 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:57:17 -0800
To: KRnet@mailinglists.org
From: "Robert X. Cringely" 
Subject: Re: KR> Comparison
Message-Id: 

I have flown both.  The KR-1 is faster, has crisper handling and 
requires more runway.  The Hummel is for pilots 5' 10" and under and 
is VERY easy and pleasant to fly.  It is not aerobatic but is so 
darned fun you don't care.  Cruise is 110 at 2.5 gallons-per-hour. 
It makes a great first homebuilt.  I should point out that, though I 
have flown one, I didn't build it.  It was built by a hangar-mate.

If you want good handling, good speed, room for a big pilot, but 
still want a tiny airplane, build an MC-100 Cri-Cri.  And let me know 
when you find reliable engines for it because I have one Cri-Cri in 
the hangar and two kits in the barn, all of which need engines.

Bob

>Has anyone done any flight/handling/construction comparisons with the KR1 or
>KR2 and the little Hummelbird?  I know the Hummelbird is a metal
>construction, 1/2 VW powered bird, and obviously smaller and lighter.  Would
>like to hear from anyone who has dealt with one.  They have a few builders
>online, but would like to hear from a KR enthusiast who has dealt with both.
>Thanks,
>
>Mike
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"
>
>To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
>See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files

-- 

------------------------------

End of krnet Digest
***********************************